iTCC - Round 2 - Post-Race Discussion

[Hypothraxer]

First of all: Sorry J. Lovett for sending you out in Race 1. I thought there was enough room but I misjudged the distance.


Race 1 was somewhat mixed. On one hand there were people who were really careful when overtaking and others weren't so careful. First I got nudged in the back and lost ~2 - 3 positions and then I just got bumped off the track for no good reason (you know who you are!). I then bumped off Lovett and decided to give him at least one position back and waited in the last lap so that he could overtake me.

In Race 2 I first got stuck up again in a car pileup from which I was the last one to recover. Then I hit another pile up in the last chicane where - for some reason - one of the drivers decided to go back from the grass onto the racing line (again - you know who you are!). But it was also my fault for not braking earlier.

In Race 3 I got stuck in a car pileup (sounds familiar eh? Where's the unluckiest driver trophy?!) which was caused by a car lagging. Afterwards I was just cruising along, beating my own lap record and even getting the fastest lap.

Shootout 3 here I come....

[Gaulish]

On one hand there were people who were really careful when overtaking and others weren't so careful.


agree

[jasonmatthews]

Yes Gaulish, you took me out, well done....

[J@tko]

Reserve Shootout:

Hey it was amazing - got a good lap in and my spb would have got me 2nd in my session, just behind 1st.

And as usual my dinner messes everything up :doh:

Missed Quali and nearly Race 1 due to my LFS giving me its epic "Could not get track info" FAIL.

Race 1:
Got into Race 1 through the grace of the admins [cheers guys!!], and started 31st. Lucky me :tilt:

Hadn't actually done a long stint on my set so no idea how the tyres would be. Got a mk start but got caught up in a T2 schmozzle a bit. And sorry to whichever SR guy I hit. Had an EPIC slide out of T1. Got to ~25th under SC, then overtook CSF before the SF line on the restart - sorry :(

Just then kept out of trouble as everyone else crashed and came 12th - thats up 19 positions :tilt:

Race 2:
Got a good start and was in a good position again, managed to stay out of trouble and blocked like mad even though my tyres were melting, everyone else kept crashing and amazingly I came 6th :):)

Race 3:
:schwitz:
Started 2nd, and was talking to pacesetter just before the race on msn, saying how I'd be winning after T1 cos my set was so good off the line. And yes, indeed i did!! Was winning for 9/10 of a lap, then of course the obligatory fail. Came out of the final corner, floored it and just understeer hell. Only lost 1 position cos of that, but then mayhem broke loose and I was down to 5th - sorry for smashing you Dennis, Enerson and everyone else who passed me :(
But I got Fastest Lap then y0 :razz:
Didn't go too badly for a while, kept 5th IIRC, but being caught by Mr Nolan. Sorry for calling you a "selfish bastard" when you overtook me and left the door open for Rudy :D

Then I just got overtaken by everyone and came 12th ish. Bit disapointed, but not too bad cos my tyres were soooo bad at the end of the race - both fronts more than 130 degrees :(

Thanks to the admins and everyone else who I had a nice race against, see you at Blackwood - which I did a 2h enduro just before Xmas so some good preparation already, and my 1kg ballast :D

[jasonmatthews]

The shootout went very well for me. Came 2nd in our server with a new pb of 1.19.51 with very little practise. Race Qualification went alot worse due to having 30kg ballast and there being 30 cars on track! Came 24th I think.
Race 1 started and I got rammed off on t1, race over...

Race 2 went alot better with me & Chris in about 16th & 17th position and no ramming, managed to finish 16th.

Race 3 started not too badly, lost a few positions at beginning but then battled for about 6 laps to catch the pack ahead, which could have got me a top 10 finish. Unfortunately the idiot behind me decided to take me out just as I caught the pack whilst I was slowing to avoid crashing into them all http://www.sonicrealmsracing.co.uk/forum/Smileys/default/o4fsad.gif

Conclusion : Enjoyed the racing although the driving was absolutely terrible at times from some racers. I got hit 3 times in 1 lap in 1 race....

[Gaulish]

Yes Gaulish, you took me out, well done....


???..when? :(..i only know i kick g.Ford from behind 3 race i think 5 lap...but just a little...

and i was pushed 10 times..:)..

[Kid222]

I am happy with my result, cause i was the last one who made it from shotout with miserable time.
Qualified 28th.

R1 was best of all, i made up 13 spots even after i (or rather some other GVR guy, who reversed into racing line) caused SC.

In R2 i made up another spot and before R3 i decided to change pressure in rear tyres, but accidentaly switched from R3 to R2. I noticed that after 5 laps, so i started lapping slower, holding everyone behind. All went qiute good, until i spun just before first split four laps before finish. Rear tyres all red, so i drifted home in 18th.

Btw. i could raise numbers of reports, some drivers (mr. Gjerde mostly) wanted to touch my ass so badly.. i had to let them through. I know on FE is tough to make a pass, but...

Anyway, it was good evening, looking forward to next one.:)

[CSF]

???..when? :(..i only know i kick g.Ford from behind 3 race i think 5 lap...but just a little...

and i was pushed 10 times..:)..

:D Were you the one that tried to get through into T5 using all the curb and more? :D

[Wilko868]

Very sorry to the people I managed to take out in last corner in race 2. Ive just watched it back and I don't have a clue how I didnt see anybody. Decided to give up after 3 or 4 laps in Race 3 after getting batted off ALOT.

So once again very sorry :)

Chris

[Hypothraxer]

Btw. i could raise numbers of reports, some drivers (mr. Gjerde mostly) wanted to touch my ass so badly.. i had to let them through. I know on FE is tough to make a pass, but...

=> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53873

Just do it if you think it's justified. In the end cleaner racing is what we all want (especially in the back).

[CSF]

Got to ~25th under SC, then overtook CSF before the SF line on the restart - sorry :(



:chairs: Awful person you are!! :( :razz:

[J@tko]

Watching R3 start atm:

:jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop::jawdrop:

Shit deko mate, you're going mad!

And thanks camera man for not seeing my fail

[Gaulish]

:) i forget to save any replay..so can wait to see..:))..but when I look all race was great...again very nice fights..

P.S. like some guys I didnt need to go to piss..becose i was wet like i drive in F1 :)))

[Hypothraxer]

Can anyone upload the replay of Race 1? It seems like it didn't save it for me.

[Joe_Keaveney]

Can anyone upload the replay of Race 1? It seems like it didn't save it for me.

I'll upload the replays very shortly :) They'll be in their own thread as per Round 1.

Cheers

Joe

[J@tko]

Me and deko on msn:

Jack: yet to see a 10 second section when one of you isnt yelling and not seen a shot where there isnt 20,000 cars right next to each other

You really should consider approaching some people like the BBC/BSkyB about putting this out on the telly. It's got more action in one race than F1 has had in its history, it's got what must be some of the worlds best commentators and the most exciting racing possibly ever seen :thumb:

And thanks for the compliments pre-Race 3 messers Boothy and Passo :tilt:

"What do you call an Englishman, an American and a Scot in a commentary Box?
TOTAL MAYHEM (http://www.iconracing.co.uk/itcctv.htm)"

[Hypothraxer]

I agree on that one - the commentators were great! :thumb:

P.S.: Especially Michael Passingham's final thought: "In this race the 19th place finisher, Novak, got the fastest lap. Amazing stuff. That sums up the strangest weekend in racing I've ever seen." :D

[Kid222]

=> http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53873

Just do it if you think it's justified. In the end cleaner racing is what we all want (especially in the back).
I think i'll take my time tomorrow and i'll do it. And i feel sorry for person, who will have to get through all of it.:) j/k


P.S.: Especially Michael Passingham's final thought: "In this race the 19th place finisher, Novak, got the fastest lap. Amazing stuff. That sums up the strangest weekend in racing I've ever seen." :D
Hehe, gotta watch this.:D

[Jadran]

Why Wilko868 (31 C.Wilkinson) run in second shootout ?
OK,he had a better time but..... wrong group.
sorry for bad english

[Joe_Keaveney]

Why Wilko868 (31 C.Wilkinson) run in second shootout ?
OK,he had a better time but..... wrong group.
sorry for bad english

Actually, I told him to be there :D

It was so there would be even numbers in both shootouts. As it happens, there were a few no-shows......so that may not have turned out to be the case. :shy:

FYI. :D

Cheers!

And hope you all had an enjoyable evening :)

joe

[audimasta]

I had a great time out there today. Pole in the main qual and a win in race 1 was clearly over my expectations. Race 2 was really enjoyable aswell until my screen went black for about 10 seconds in t1 in lap 15ish. Finished fourth though so could have been much worse. Race three was also nice, although i just could not catch Laudens due to cooking tyres. Nolan also caught up on me due to my tyres being really hot. Happy for third though!

Broadcast was very enjoyable to watch aswell :thumb:

Cya next round :)

[Gaulish]

black screen?..for me usual NOD pump up :)))..

[snoring_snoopy]

Hi there!

First i want to apologize for the delay and the messy grid at race 1, cause the grid software failed again. Sorry for that :shrug:

"BIG THANK YOU" to:
dbpstoney for helping us out and taking the role of the race director, it was very funny and good working with him. Also he was able to minimize the mayhem after the grid software fail....:schwitz:

Deko, boothy and MP3 Astra for a great commentary box, i just watched the broadcast and it was more than great :thumbsup:

Joe for making this broadcasting possible and doing the league organizing stuff.

And last but not least to all drivers, who took part of this event. I know it was a hard and sometimes nearly reckless driving style from some of you, but all in all it was a great event.

Now take the flight to Blackwood, we will see you there ;)

BTW, J@tko: Where is the cheque for iCON ? :razz:

[dekojester]

I've noticed, in my experience, that grid ordering apps tend to fail when the reorder is transmitted to LFS when not everyone is on-track at the time...people even being in garage can seem to mess with it, I've seen. :shrug:

[Joe_Keaveney]

I've noticed, in my experience, that grid ordering apps tend to fail when the reorder is transmitted to LFS when not everyone is on-track at the time...people even being in garage can seem to mess with it, I've seen. :shrug:

There is that to consider, as well as the possibility that we made a mistake when re-ordering - we were trying to order people by LFS Username when what we saw on LFS was the Driver name.

Just my input anyway. The ordering app works as intended but we need to tighten our procedures, I'll make sure that we're ready for the next round.

Cheers

Joe

[hyntty]

Hate to keep bringing this up, but the new superadmincontrolapplication (thanks to the Czechs) is also quite handy for gridordering. Anally unuserfriendly, but it works a little differently than the Grid Orderer App

[Mp3 Astra]

I was wondering, why for race 1 you didn't use the qualifying order to set the grid. Am I missing something? :shy:

[BigTime]

I was wondering, why for race 1 you didn't use the qualifying order to set the grid. Am I missing something? :shy:

The race 2 grid was the one that really had me scratching my head. :scratchch

[J@tko]

BTW, J@tko: Where is the cheque for iCON? :razz:
:D

Looking back over the race, I had a strange thought. During the course of the evening I must have overtaken nearly everyone in the field [with the possible exception of those that beat me in Race 2 :P] at least once, however, I only actually overtook 1 [well, two if you count the start of Race 3] person with an on-track manoeuvre. (Congrats Mr Wilkinson! :smileypul)

Just by staying out of trouble and keeping 4 wheels on the black stuff I gained 25 positions in the 34 laps of Races 2+3, as everyone else crashed around me. So even though I might suck at driving, I can still do well by staying on track :)

And also being hellishly lucky. Look in Race 1 at the incident that caused the SC. How I managed to get through the 10 cars that spun just infront of me I'll never know :schwitz:

And btw, apparently it was a lunar eclipse last night, so there's the excuse for my non-failness. Next week I'll be back to normal :razz:

See you all at Blackwood

Jack :)

[Mp3 Astra]

The race 2 grid was the one that really had me scratching my head. :scratchch

Race 1 grid was abandoned and we waited for a good 10 minutes while it was sorted out. I don't actually know if it was incorrect or not; but John and Joe definitely thought it was.

[Gil07]

Couldnt you just have restarted from quali? The grid should've been fine without any apps? Same for race 2 if it's the finishing order... Or am I missing something here? :shy:

[mkinnov8]

I was wondering, why for race 1 you didn't use the qualifying order to set the grid. Am I missing something? :shy:

The qualifying order was what I transfered over to the Grid Ordering App Joe wanted to try. Once that order was set, that request was successfully sent to LFS. As it turns out, as far as I'm aware there were there were a few errors in this order. This was spotted and the race shortly afterwards stopped under the direction of Joe.

The race 2 grid was the one that really had me scratching my head. :scratchch

Race 2 grid was incorrect BigTime? - This was checked by three of us, so please, enlighten. I did this one in a more, old-fashioned way, manually, using my brain power.

Race 1 grid was abandoned and we waited for a good 10 minutes while it was sorted out. I don't actually know if it was incorrect or not; but John and Joe definitely thought it was.

It was incorrect, the Pole position guy was placed to last. This was spotted, the race ended, then the task of resorting the grid was undertaken. - These situations are stressful, and while everyone wishes to help out and do thier best, when drivers take over and place themselves on the grid, things can easily get confusing.

I got confused. The "10 minute delay" was extended through my confusion. But the grid was set and the racing eventually got underway.

Couldnt you just have restarted from quali? The grid should've been fine without any apps? Same for race 2 if it's the finishing order... Or am I missing something here? :shy:

To my knowledge you are correct, and this is initially what I thought would happen. However, we had no knowledge that there should be a problem.

Personally I prefer a manual grid set in the lobby, I have more control over the order. (or at least in my head thats how it works). But this manual method requires co-operation, without this, confusion creeps in.

Im sure your racing wasnt ruined by my failures. Once the racing was running, I was told everything was going fine. There was some really exciting racing happening, when you wernt all trying stupid moves.

[DeadWolfBones]

Race 2 grid was incorrect BigTime? - This was checked by three of us, so please, enlighten. I did this one in a more, old-fashioned way, manually, using my brain power.

I think what he means was that the starting order for race 2 was the finishing order for race 1, so there was no need to end and manually re-order.

I appreciate you stepping in to help out, but in the future I think the admins of the series need to better fill you in on how certain procedures work (i.e., SCs for flipped cars, etc). Your reordering of the grid was agonizingly slow--maybe just calling out the car numbers would be quicker next time? I mean for this to be constructive criticism and not an attack, so I hope you read it that way.

[Mp3 Astra]

For races ordered on previous race results, you need to order the grid in order to put in all the cars that didn't finish the race in the correct order. Although, you don't need to wipe the grid to do so.

[mkinnov8]

I think what he means was that the starting order for race 2 was the finishing order for race 1, so there was no need to end and manually re-order.

I appreciate you stepping in to help out, but in the future I think the admins of the series need to better fill you in on how certain procedures work (i.e., SCs for flipped cars, etc). Your reordering of the grid was agonizingly slow--maybe just calling out the car numbers would be quicker next time? I mean for this to be constructive criticism and not an attack, so I hope you read it that way.

The admins of the series filled me in fine dwb. Race Control was talking during the races, I had guidance for every decision made during the races. Apart from the first Safety Car, no other driver stayed on the track long enough for a safety car to be scrambled. Guidance told me that Safety Car's were for cars on thier roof/side/beached etc.

If drivers are supposted to wait and/or signal, none was forthcoming. Not following the first Safety Car. If drivers dont wait, there is no reason to scramble the safety car, and disrupt the racing further.

As for the speed in which I reorganised the grid.. Firstly sourcing the replay/list of qualifying times took half the time. Then drivers thought the'd help by adding themselves where they remembered, which confused me more. In the end I was left with was a list of licence names rather than numbers followed by names, and it was a case of flicking between LFS and other software to make sure people were in the correct order.

31 licence names to usernames later, we got it sorted out. Then of course I had to check it again to make sure there wasnt another cockup.

Dont take this as an excuse, I made a mistake, I know I did, but I found out the problem, took action to correct it, and you had your racing. After reading some of the comments, I thought I'd post to try and shed some light on what happened, and what was being done to sort it out.

For races ordered on previous race results, you need to order the grid in order to put in all the cars that didn't finish the race in the correct order. Although, you don't need to wipe the grid to do so.

Agreed, thats a preference.

-maybe just calling out the car numbers would be quicker next time?

Hopefully, you guys shouldnt have to put up with me again ;)

[DeadWolfBones]

As for the speed in which I reorganised the grid.. Firstly sourcing the replay/list of qualifying times took half the time. Then drivers thought the'd help by adding themselves where they remembered, which confused me more. In the end I was left with was a list of licence names rather than numbers followed by names, and it was a case of flicking between LFS and other software to make sure people were in the correct order.

31 licence names to usernames later, we got it sorted out. Then of course I had to check it again to make sure there wasnt another cockup.

I find that simply taking a screenshot at the end of quali speeds up this process considerably. :)

[Joe_Keaveney]

OK to draw a line under this:

Every decision made last night was made by me. Maybe suggested to me, but I had the final say so the buck stops with me. Any mistakes that were made were made on my behalf, so please direct any criticisms at me via PM please. I am very keen that we run the best series in LFS, so I value good criticism and would welcome advice on running things smoother. But please understand that mkinnov8 stepped in at the last minute to do a hard job, and for that he should rightly deserve praise.

Again criticism and advice to me via PM please.:thumb:

Cheers

Joe

[DeadWolfBones]

As for SCs and flipped cars...

Yellow Flag Conditions

The yellow flag will be shown if there is an incident on-track from which the affected driver/drivers cannot self-recover back to the track or pits, for example a car rolled onto it's roof.

Drivers should NOT telepit or telespectate, instead they should signal the Race Director who will then show the Yellow Flag, and deploy the Safety Car.

The driver(s) affected by the incident will then be told by the Race Director to telepit/telespectate. The affected driver(s) will play no further part in that race.

Most of the fault for the SCs not being called lies on the shoulders of the drivers who disregarded this rule and spectated without being instructed to do so. This was beyond anyone else's control. However, I do feel that the rules imply that the fact of a car having flipped and been left in an unrecoverable position demands a SC be brought out, whether that car spectates or not ("yellow flag will be brought out..."). This is a policy the admins need to set straight, and not something that is really on your shoulders, Stoney. I just felt it needed to be pointed out.

[boothy]

If you were being really cynical you could envisage a situation where a driver rolls but because his team mate is out at the front with a healthy margin, he spectates straightaway rather than having a SC. Which is where a firm line needs to be taken IMV, and with all of the rules, including SC restarts and other things. :thumb:

But overall it was good racing, however I thought everyone was far too aggressive, especially at the chicane and first turn, where the lines through those corners got pretty strange at times, and people just kept pushing it and crashing. You have 2 pedals and as a driver you are in control so you can't really blame the track too much for the carnage! :razz:

[DeadWolfBones]

If you were being really cynical you could envisage a situation where a driver rolls but because his team mate is out at the front with a healthy margin, he spectates straightaway rather than having a SC.

It certainly didn't go unnoticed by us on the CoRe vent channel that Rijke's unauthorized spectating helped Rudy a bit. Not that we felt it was intentional, but it did give him something of an advantage. :shrug:

[Rudy van Buren]

It certainly didn't go unnoticed by us on the CoRe vent channel that Rijke's unauthorized spectating helped Rudy a bit. Not that we felt it was intentional, but it did give him something of an advantage. :shrug:

uhm, i wasnt even with rikje on TS or vent, so we had not contact during the race, that he spectated to early aint something i asked for and i dont understand where i got advantage from and you guys point now to rikje but there were few more doing this aswell ;)

[BigTime]

Regardless of who did or didn't spectate after rolling, that's something admins need to keep a little closer eye on. IMO, if a car rolls and spectates there should still be an SC irregardless, and those drivers should be penalized in the future.

[Joe_Keaveney]

Regardless of who did or didn't spectate after rolling, that's something admins need to keep a little closer eye on. IMO, if a car rolls and spectates there should still be an SC irregardless, or those drivers should be penalized in the future.

Yeah actually I held off sending a SC once in the race session. This was not in accordance with the procedure I wrote. It should have been called but it was my call not to send it out. I realized immediately I was in the wrong, but it was already too late - if I'd sent it out a long time after the car had spectated I would have had a lot of puzzled drivers wondering why.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I made some mistakes in this round. I don't think it spoiled the racing on track (I hope), but mistakes were made, and I need to recognize them and move forward. I won't make them again. :thumb:

I'm going through the replays and my own list of observations from Sunday at the moment. In particular we're looking at failure to observe league procedures regarding spectating and pitting, as well as racing incidents.

[snoring_snoopy]

Yeah actually I held off sending a SC once in the race session. This was not in accordance with the procedure I wrote. It should have been called but it was my call not to send it out. I realized immediately I was in the wrong, but it was already too late - if I'd sent it out a long time after the car had spectated I would have had a lot of puzzled drivers wondering why.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I made some mistakes in this round. I don't think it spoiled the racing on track (I hope), but mistakes were made, and I need to recognize them and move forward. I won't make them again. :thumb:

I'm going through the replays and my own list of observations from Sunday at the moment. In particular we're looking at failure to observe league procedures regarding spectating and pitting, as well as racing incidents.
OK, now its me to draw a line under this:

Joe and myself are going through the report list and the replays at the moment. We try to make fair decisions and (if needed) penaltys to all involved drivers. If there are suggestions for SC car please PM me or Joe. (except the idea to let the SC Car die, we are willing to let it in this league, to make i more like real life racing..)

As Joe said, we try to make a good league with the iTCC and we learn from our mistakes (and don´t forget this was the 3rd race we ever organized):schwitz:.

[Gaulish]

Yeah actually I held off sending a SC once in the race session. This was not in accordance with the procedure I wrote. It should have been called but it was my call not to send it out. I realized immediately I was in the wrong, but it was already too late - if I'd sent it out a long time after the car had spectated I would have had a lot of puzzled drivers wondering why.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I made some mistakes in this round. I don't think it spoiled the racing on track (I hope), but mistakes were made, and I need to recognize them and move forward. I won't make them again. :thumb:

I'm going through the replays and my own list of observations from Sunday at the moment. In particular we're looking at failure to observe league procedures regarding spectating and pitting, as well as racing incidents.


mistake its only human...leage is great, is to much little things u must think about it...so u guys doing great with organization hole leage. My team also organize regional leage and I know what u need to do, to make all looking good and almost always we have some protest....

[BigTime]

Like I said earlier in the thread, I made some mistakes in this round. I don't think it spoiled the racing on track (I hope), but mistakes were made, and I need to recognize them and move forward. I won't make them again. :thumb:


Not at all... It was a great event still.

[snoring_snoopy]

IF you are interested:

The race report of round 2 can be found in the iCON News 2/09, which was published today. You will find it here:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53387

I hope you enjoy it :)