Post Race Discussion Test Race

[pacesetter]

Discuss, and first off all, i apoligise for my massive blunder, we're new to adminning leagues, and the mistakes we've made tonight, wont be repeated, tonight was a night for learning, for admins and drivers.

[pacesetter]

Rename it to invertebrates motorsports association?:P

Fail big time from me, screwed sprint, screwed 2nd, atleast i get to hit the stella's now.


As I said, I ****ed up big big big time, this won't happen again, i am very very sorry

[niels1]

Hmmm this was not a good start. Maybe before you start the championship you have another test run. :shrug: Also people need to be still when quali isnt finished yet. :(

[pacesetter]

Hmmm this was not a good start. Maybe before you start the championship you have another test run. :shrug: Also people need to be still when quali isnt finished yet. :(


Yes, I am sorry, I am inexperienced, and I feel maybe another test may be the way forward, i just hope drivers will stay and persevere with this series

[aobrien]

The first race wasnt a good start, but it was our first ever, however we learned and didnt let it happen in race 2. Tonight was the night to 'test' things so we decided so test in the start of the second race a rolling start. Which wasnt great so we wont be running it in the league. The racing was good in both races, but dan i think that is very harsh considering it was our first ever event dont ya think? James has apoligised for his mistake , we have all learned things about it and we will be practising these things in the future so i dont think thats very fair to say.
Also the constant talking will have to be dealt with.
Andy

[pacesetter]

Its fine, everyone has to start somewhere.

You dug yourself a big hole with the safety car palaver, that annoyed me a little. It would've been so much more fluent if you had said no, lets do this the normal way.

Last but not least, dont rush yourself as more mistakes are made, take your time when setting the server up, if people cannot remain calm, then tell them to leave server, simple as that.

Oh yeh and who was the clown who hit me on SC lap :P

If i was you, id arrange another practice race for next weekend, get all these bugs out of the way. Also come to a decision on the duration of the races at least 24 hours before the race ;)

Anyways, Good night guys.

The first race wasnt a good start, but it was our first ever, however we learned and didnt let it happen in race 2. Tonight was the night to 'test' things so we decided so test in the start of the second race a rolling start. Which wasnt great so we wont be running it in the league. The racing was good in both races, but dan i think that is very harsh considering it was our first ever event dont ya think? James has apoligised for his mistake , we have all learned things about it and we will be practising these things in the future so i dont think thats very fair to say.
Also the constant talking will have to be dealt with.
Andy


Well thanks for the defence Andy, you're right, but maybe we should've made things more clear, that advice is helpful Dan, people weren't patient enough, i made a blooper in doing what i did with the qualification, and i hope people will let what happened be a thing of the past.

[niels1]

Hey hey hey no need to apologize. This is just the way it goes. Write down the faults, make a new gameplane from that and try another testrun. Good thing from making mistakes is you can learn from it. The serie will run eventually maybe a bit later. Just sort it out and retest again. :thumb:

[mkinnov8]

Also the constant talking will have to be dealt with.
Andy

I will post a larger post later on, but I feel I must say about the talking and the general way you admins speak to your drivers - that is important. Do it firmly but politely.

Not STFU, not shhh, expecially when you guys talk, or argue amoung yourselves too..

Sort yourself out, make decisions away from the lfs server, as in some voice server perhaps - so that you dont look so disorganised, and are not seen to be arguing amoung yourselves.

More later guys ;)

[aobrien]

yes we will be practising it all come next week , and we will hold another test race next weekend probably. and as for the way people talked to drivers that has been dealt with and wont happen again.

sorry again guys, but every one has to start somewhere

[pacesetter]

I will post a larger post later on, but I feel I must say about the talking and the general way you admins speak to your drivers - that is important. Do it firmly but politely.

Not STFU, not shhh, expecially when you guys talk, or argue amoung yourselves too..

Sort yourself out, make decisions away from the lfs server, as in some voice server perhaps - so that you dont look so disorganised, and are not seen to be arguing amoung yourselves.

More later guys ;)



Yeah, We've noticed that, all will be rethought very very carefully, and hopefully, we'll be better next time round. A new set of rules and race schedules in detail will be announced during the week.

[jaws99]

At the end of the day, it was the teams first self run event and mistakes can be expected to happen. I'm sure the guys have learned from their errors.

Apart from the mistakes I really enjoyed much of the racing, the majority of drivers I encountered were very well behaved and I hope i appeared that way as well.

Anyhow, not sure about anyone else but i'm knackered after driving that fo8 all day so i'm off to join D.Zanetti for a Stella :P

[Speedy Pro]

Andy, James - congrats on finishing the test race. It wasn't the smoothest one for sure, but given it was your first, I think you two did a pretty decent job, all things considered. I would certainly be up for another test race next weekend, hopefully somewhere on Aston - no time to learn/develop set for another circuit. Here are a few suggestions:

1) Despite the qualifying blunder, the drivers themselves need to behave more maturely. No rushing the admins, no insults and keep the chat between the drivers to a minimum, please. It's easier for admins and easier for other drivers who, perhaps, are trying to concentrate. Plus, it makes the entire event seem more professional.

2) Drivers should show up to the server with their names in proper format. It's really not difficult at all. Just create a new driver w/ the proper name.

3) The qualifying. In this post (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1065524#post1065524) Andy said that the qualifying would be split into two classes, yet both the FOX and F08 ran at the same time, which IMO was far from ideal. On my second flying lap attempt a F08 caught up to me right before the final chicane. As a result, this screwed up my lap (and his lap, probably) and put me right into the tyres...which also affected two other FOX cars running behind me. So please, let's do two qual. sessions next time. Say 7-10 mins each. First the F08s go while FOXs stay in pits, and vice versa for the second one.

4) Skins, etc. For broadcasting purposes, it may be a good idea to have standardized number plates and their locations on skins, like they do in IGTC and MoE. Adds some credibility to the event.

Anyways, thanks for organizing this, and I'm sure it will run much smoother next time. :thumb:

[pacesetter]

Andy, James - congrats on finishing the test race. It wasn't the smoothest one for sure, but given it was your first, I think you two did a pretty decent job, all things considered. I would certainly be up for another test race next weekend, hopefully somewhere on Aston - no time to learn/develop set for another circuit. Here are a few suggestions:

1) Despite the qualifying blunder, the drivers themselves need to behave more maturely. No rushing the admins, no insults and keep the chat between the drivers to a minimum, please. It's easier for admins and easier for other drivers who, perhaps, are trying to concentrate. Plus, it makes the entire event seem more professional.

2) Drivers should show up to the server with their names in proper format. It's really not difficult at all. Just create a new driver w/ the proper name.

3) The qualifying. In this post (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1065524#post1065524) Andy said that the qualifying would be split into two classes, yet both the FOX and F08 ran at the same time, which IMO was far from ideal. On my second flying lap attempt a F08 caught up to me right before the final chicane. As a result, this screwed up my lap (and his lap, probably) and put me right into the tyres...which also affected two other FOX cars running behind me. So please, let's do two qual. sessions next time. Say 7-10 mins each. First the F08s go while FOXs stay in pits, and vice versa for the second one.

4) Skins, etc. For broadcasting purposes, it may be a good idea to have standardized number plates and their locations on skins, like they do in IGTC and MoE. Adds some credibility to the event.

Anyways, thanks for organizing this, and I'm sure it will run much smoother next time. :thumb:

Thanks, one of the most helpful posts by far, and yeah, will most likely be run at the same track if there is one.

[aobrien]

There will be one next week same track. As people wont have much time to practice.
Yes it will be better to keep classes split in qual,but if people dont obey there times and go on track when not supposed to i will kick/ban them.

We will run another test event next saturday at same time, 19:00 GMT and you will need to be on server before this.

There will be 2 standing starts instead of a rolling start which we tryed and orived to be messy,so 2 standing starts.

Our issue at the start with the grid has already been practised and it wont arise again.

Next saturdays test race may be broadcasted, as i was meant to run it tonight with Oscar but he was not available.So next week will probably be broadcasted.

Although there was some low's there was certainly some high aspects of tonights race, the racing was very good , in race 1 Kenneth and Tomczyk had a very good battle which i have watched on the replay and i was very amused!

So we will work on the low aspects and i feel next saturdays race will be run with no diffficulties if we get co-operation from everyone.

Thanks,
Andy

[J@tko]

Remember next Saturday is Valentine's day ;)

And I might come if I don't get a date, which is likely :(

[aobrien]

Hmm, Valentines<3 ..
Well maybe next Friday night because Sunday mornin people wont ne feeling the greatest:thumb:

[pacesetter]

Remember next Saturday is Valentine's day ;)

And I might come if I don't get a date, which is likely :(


oh yeah, i forgot about that :x and i defo wont be around, im sure i will find someone :D, and remember, dont worry about dating, no point in going out if its gonna be the most boring company ever! I'd only go out with someone who i actually like, [/love advice over] :D

[Speedy Pro]

Ah, bugger, if it's on Friday evening GMT, I won't make it. That's Friday afternoon for us yanks, and much as I hate it, RL takes precedence. Oh, and next Friday is also the 13th :spidereek
I suppose Sunday evening GMT is out for you guys?

[pacesetter]

Ah, bugger, if it's on Friday evening GMT, I won't make it. That's Friday afternoon for us yanks, and much as I hate it, RL takes precedence. Oh, and next Friday is also the 13th :spidereek
I suppose Sunday evening GMT is out for you guys?


It could be ? I dont know, :shy:. but if you've commited to this event, im sure it may not be required for you to join the next one, lets see.

[mkinnov8]

Right then, now that i've had time to think and reflect, here are my thoughts and opinions presented to you for your reference, for you to do with whatever you please, ignore or not :)

The following are my opinions, based upon past experience, and trying to offer up any advice that may be helpful. Please remember these are opinions, and as such should not matter one way or another.

Firstly, congratulations to ERT for completing thier first event, thats a huge step to take, and well done for sticking with it till the end was reached.

Secondly, to the guy who said about drivers having thier names sorted before thier arrival in the server.. Take heed please.. For a good 10-20 minutes during the inital practice sessions on the server, three or more people asked about the name format. For the first few minutes, nothing was said in response, then ERT team members seemed to be discussing it amoung themselves, and slowly people started to change thier names. However, from my recolection, I dont remember anyone actually being told the correct format in which they should name themselves. I also cannot see anywhere in the discussion in the forums which specifies the correct format in which we should have named ourselves.

Thirdly, Speaking with your drivers, as I mentioned before, can be a right pain in the arse of any race director. Personally, my own style is to publish everything drivers need to know pre-race in a briefing, and then if questions which have been answered come up in the race session, the drivers are simply refered back to the documentation. - I understand it can get on nerves when people ask questions, when they talk during end-session... periods etc. There isnt really anything fair that can be done by race adminstration. - If you ignore drivers, then you are branded arrogant, if you constantly ask for quiet, then you are considered rude, if you do nothing and wait for silence, you are wasting time - its hard to win. You guys need to find your own balence there. If you are going to go as far as to punish drivers for excessive talking - use a strikes system.. Warn drivers up to say 3 times for talking, then start applying penalties. If you write this into your rules, you dont have to keep saying things in the server. Remember, for as much time you are giving up to organise these events, your drivers are choosing your event to attend, dont treat them badly, else, they may choose not to return. (It goes without saying that if drivers themselves are being offensive to administrators, or to other drivers for that matter, they should be delt with (kick before ban)).

Fourthly, make decisions before you enter the server. If there is more than one administrator, decide on what to name yourselves. Decide who has the overriding vote. Decide on the race length (advertise 20 minutes for example if you wish to, but make sure you are aware of how many laps that converts to). If drivers witness you discussing this on the server, they will jump in, breaking chat rules and disrupt your discussion, opening it to more and more ideas and opinions. At the stage where you and them are on the server, the discussion should be closed. You should have already had the discussion and decisions should be made.

Fifthly, if testing additional things or processes, be clear with yourself as to what you are doing. Then, when decided, communicate this directly and clearly to your drivers. - With reference to the safety car start you tried in the second test race, dbpFlip's suggestion to test out a safety car wasn't intended as a rolling start... he meant if you were using a safety car to control the field within the race... ;). I cant honestly see the need for a safety car start with single seaters on a dry track (or a wet one for that matter), but thats your choice. As long as you are clear with your drivers.

Sixthly, be clear on your proceedures, what are you asking drivers to do at the end of a session - Else people will take the piss and start driving backwards around the track, as I seen one driver do, only just passed the start/finish line, and another driver saw another one later on. Communicate your intentions with drivers to. The biggest frustration is not knowing what is going on or why.

Seventhly, make sure you have your server config setup right... ask for help if you need it, there are pleanty of people out here willing to help. Confirm everything before you start a race or qualifcation session - For example tonight, your car's-on-track restrictions cost at least one driver the chance to qualify.

Im done I think - Not intended as a rant at all Guys. I dont think there are many actual problems, just needs tighting up a little, and that comes with experience.

I wont be able to make another test session within the next week, so best of luck with that.

Kev

[pacesetter]

Every comment made here has been constructive, we're reflecting, and picking out the obvious and not so obvious mistakes, thanks for that Kev, much appreciated.

[aobrien]

Thanks mate , advice is crucial to learning :thumb:

[dan12s]

ah no, i cant do the 14th as its my mum's b-day and valentine day..

[Laser171107]

Couldn't get to test event unfortunately because have had no power for 8 hours... all this aussie summer heat (47C) is too much for our power companies to cope with :(, hope to see you all in a subsequent test race or round 1 :)

[bozo]

So please, let's do two qual. sessions next time. Say 7-10 mins each. First the F08s go while FOXs stay in pits, and vice versa for the second one.

An alternative that you might consider is to let the FO8s go out for the first 5 minutes alone, and then the FOXs can join for the remainder of qualifying. This worked successfully in the GFC events, and means nobody is waiting around too long. The FOXs were allowed into the pit lane, but could not join the track until the first 5 minutes were passed.

[pacesetter]

An alternative that you might consider is to let the FO8s go out for the first 5 minutes alone, and then the FOXs can join for the remainder of qualifying. This worked successfully in the GFC events, and means nobody is waiting around too long. The FOXs were allowed into the pit lane, but could not join the track until the first 5 minutes were passed.


I actually want to ask the other admins about that cos its a good idea

[mkinnov8]

+1

[Speedy Pro]

An alternative that you might consider is to let the FO8s go out for the first 5 minutes alone, and then the FOXs can join for the remainder of qualifying. This worked successfully in the GFC events, and means nobody is waiting around too long. The FOXs were allowed into the pit lane, but could not join the track until the first 5 minutes were passed.

This would work well for the F08 guys, as they have 5 mins of track time to themselves, but what about the FOX drivers? F08+FOX at the same time gives both classes less of a chance for a "perfect" lap, no? Or am I missing something?

[pacesetter]

I had a thought there this evening, why not do 15 minutes of quali? For the first five minutes the FO8s go out, then from after the clock turns past the five minute mark, the FOXs leave the pits. And for the remaining five minutes, both classes are allowed out on track?

Please post your thoughts on the above

[mkinnov8]

+1 to that the "GFC Method".

EDIT: Dont forget to add whatever method you choose to your Rules & Guidelines, so they are as up to date as they can be.
EDIT2: I'll find out throughout this next week what my timetable is like for the actual series - will let you know my availability asap.

[Speedy Pro]

I had a thought there this evening, why not do 15 minutes of quali? For the first five minutes the FO8s go out, then from after the clock turns past the five minute mark, the FOXs leave the pits. And for the remaining five minutes, both classes are allowed out on track?

Please post your thoughts on the above

Don't you think that will cause a lot of problems with ordering drivers? And are you saying it's 5 mins F08 and 10 mins F08+FOX, or 5 mins F08, 5 mins FOX and 5 mins F08+FOX? I still prefer a separate session for each class. It's qualifying, not racing.

[racer hero]

What about a 20 minute qualification and 10 minutes for each class?

[Speedy Pro]

That's what the current rules are, as posted by Andy.

[pacesetter]

Don't you think that will cause a lot of problems with ordering drivers? And are you saying it's 5 mins F08 and 10 mins F08+FOX, or 5 mins F08, 5 mins FOX and 5 mins F08+FOX? I still prefer a separate session for each class. It's qualifying, not racing.


Yeah, but the drivers are impatient, and will get bored if left doing nothing, i think 5 minutes for each class, and then a 5 minute free for all drivers to improve their times? And theirs no telepitting obviously ?

James

[Speedy Pro]

Don't want to sound like a d*ck, but if drivers can't wait 10 mins, that's their problem. May as well go take their bathroom break then ;)

The trouble with a 5 min session is that on a long track like AS6 this lets you do one out lap and one flying lap, and that's if you don't wait to give yourself some room from other cars. It's less of an issue on shorter circuits, but still IMO too short of a period. To tell the truth, I just don't understand the appeal of having 2 classes on track at the same time during qualifying. Do we really need moving chicanes when people are trying their best? Hell, F1 drivers whine about being obstructed by the same class car after every session. :razz:

[niels1]

I have to agree with speedy mouse. When you normally give 10 minutes for qualify you cant go back back to 5 min. A specially on a long track like we did the test race. A lape is average for FOX 2.40, so they can do 1 hot lape. That looks like formula 1, dont make it that dull. Keep it at 10 minutes. Those who have trouble waiting shouldnt be in a championship anyway. :shrug:

The mix quali isnt a big succes, make it 10 minutes for each class. :thumb:

[pacesetter]

Ok, so maybe 10 for each class is the way to go then, and you're right, as the calender is full of long tracks to reduce lapping for the FOX classes,

[pacesetter]

it IS this weekend, a pm will be going out tonight about it. :)

It'll take place this saturday, password will be the same and all :)

[Speedy Pro]

it IS this weekend, a pm will be going out tonight about it. :)

It'll take place this saturday, password will be the same and all :)

So any more details or a confirmation? Haven't got any PMs regarding this. If it's 19:00 GMT on Saturday like last time, I'll be there.

[pacesetter]

So any more details or a confirmation? Haven't got any PMs regarding this. If it's 19:00 GMT on Saturday like last time, I'll be there.


Sorry, I've been up to my eyes, and yes everything is the exact same as last week, pw and all.