Head-to-Head: Winter Series '09 - Event 4

[blackbird04217]

Ok here it is, sign-ups are opening. Only the top 24 will be allowed at the event. However where as this is the fourth event, the championship points will take priority for the first 48 hours.

February 7th, 19:00utc
FO8 at South City Classic Rev (FO8@SO1R
To signup: (Follow this or be moved to reserve list, no matter what your points are.)
Full Name Registered for the Series (LFSUserName)
Ex: Tim Beaudet (blackbird04217)

---------------------------
You must arrive to the server BY 19:00utc. There is no room for being late.
The event will not immediately start at 19:00utc, instead there will be a period where reserves are brought in to fill the empty spots.

All reserves are to meet up in the LFS Meeting Room. (Multiplayer -> Display Hosts -> Meeting Room)
As people are needed, the SRS Admin will call up the reserves until the server is filled.
If a reserve driver is not in the meeting room at the time, the next on the list will be called.
*There will be no waiting around for people to join the server or meeting room*
---------------------------

Sign-up List (Goto the Head-to-Head Website (http://simracers.50webs.net/h2h) to see the current standings.)
---------------------------

1) Nolan Scott (BigTime)
2) Rudy van Buren (Rudy van Buren)
3) Niall McEvoy (niall09)
4) Tommy Østgaard (Tomhah)
5) David Williams (DaveWS)
6) Taha El Alaoui (evilpimp)
7) Patrik Seidler (zeugnimod)
8) Andris Pavars (andRo.)
9) Matthew Beattie (AMB)
10) Alex Gassman (Minimaxman)
11) Bernhard Bendl (bbman)
12) Tim Beaudet (blackbird04217)
13) Lukasz Kaczmarek (Mischief007)
14) Jouko Leskelä (JoLe)
15) Eduardo de Souza (de Souza)
16) Zdeněk Cagaš (Kid222)
17) Stefan Alfons (Stefani24)
18) Michael Passingham (Mp3 Astra)
19) Demetrius Adelin (Bambo)
20) Chris Ford (csf)
21) Reece Pearson (Pearcy_2k7)
22) Martin Kapal (Flame CZE)
23) Jason Lovett (JasonL220)
24) Tony Lönnström (tonyonparas)


Reserves List
---------------------------

Chris Karsten (Chrisuu01)
Scott MacDonald (Mackie The Staggie)
Mark Fletcher (fletch248)
Arturs Jonaitis (ennD)
Shaun Dacosta (shaun463)
Sander Kronberg ( [GT]Sannjx(EST) )
Heikki Jaakkola (Hawku)
Nikos Koudourakis (nikosk31)

[Flame CZE]

Martin Kapal (Flame CZE)

[J@tko]

As much as I'd love to join, 1) I'll suck 2) I hate the combo and 3) No praccy time :(

I'll watch this one - GL all :)

[andRo.]

Andris Pavars (andRo.)

[zeugnimod]

Patrik Seidler (zeugnimod)

[Kid222]

Zdeněk Cagaš (Kid222)

[evilpimp]

Taha El Alaoui (evilpimp)

[Mackie The Staggie]

Scott MacDonald (Mackie The Staggie)

[BigTime]

Nolan Scott (BigTime)

[tonyonparas]

Tony Lönnström (tonyonparas)

I just drove the next combo and fell in love with it completely :nod:

[CSF]

Chris Ford (csf)

[niall09]

Niall McEvoy (niall09)

[Rudy van Buren]

Rudy van Buren ( Rudy van Buren )

[bbman]

Bernhard Bendl (bbman)

[Mischief007]

Lukasz Kaczmarek (Mischief007)

I might not be able to though but I should know by Friday.

[DaveWS]

David Williams (DaveWS)

[Tomhah]

Tommy Østgaard [Tomhah]

[Fletch248]

Mark Fletcher (fletch248)

[pearcy_2k7]

Reece Pearson (Pearcy_2k7)

[Chrisuu01]

Chris Karsten (Chrisuu01)

And bravo exciting combo tested it and totaly loved it

[BAMBO]

Demetrius Adelin (Bambo)

[Minimaxman]

Alex Gassman (Minimaxman)

[ennD]

Arturs Jonaitis (ennD)

[shaun463]

Shaun Dacosta (shaun463)

[Stein-Andre]

Im not gonna race sorry!

[AMB]

Matthew Beattie (AMB)

[blackbird04217]

As much as I'd love to join, 1) I'll suck 2) I hate the combo and 3) No praccy time :(

I'll watch this one - GL all :)

If you want to listen there is a high chance we will at least setup the live audio broadcast again, and who knows, maybe even video.

[J@tko]

If you want to listen there is a high chance we will at least setup the live audio broadcast again, and who knows, maybe even video.
:thumb:

I'll be watching - should be an *ahem* interesting watch :)

[blackbird04217]

Yea, I haven't figured out how well the event will be but I do believe it will be spectacular whether it is good or bad it will be spectacularly good or bad. :P

Oh, and I think people should practice the chicane while following another car, it is a very different experience and you should know how to handle yourself. That will be the key area for the following person to stay close, but they need to be smart when doing so as they may rear-end the leader since they don't have any front downforce. I am thinking of adding some haybales against the wall, (not at the corner so the line should be the same) but in emergency it might offer a softer impact?

[evilpimp]

Is it possible to change sets between a race were your in front and a race were your leading?

I think that if I'm following, the only chance is if I have a low DF set with extreme amounts of mechanical grip while when leading its the opposite!

I personally think this event is gunna be a disaster.

[blackbird04217]

I don't think it will be a disaster, but I do believe it will be much different than most Head-to-Head events... Just put in the proper amount of practice and everything should be great.

[evilpimp]

=/ Your opinion I guess.

From experience, I can tell that people will go straight into the wall at the chicane because of the slipstream or they'll have to back up A LOT.

[blackbird04217]

You don't back off that much, I've followed Michael quite close through it, just had to brake earlier so I didn't hit him but you can still make up that time again, just practice it and you will see.

[nikosk31]

count me in plz
Nikos Koudourakis (nikosk31)

[Mischief007]

Very interesting track and car combo. Tried it a bit today and it is amazingly fine. You just have to be careful with it and be easy on the throttle.

[evilpimp]

Very interesting track and car combo. Tried it a bit today and it is amazingly fine. You just have to be careful with it and be easy on the throttle.
Its fine alone but when your following someone closely its nearly impossible to not understeer into the wall.

[pearcy_2k7]

Stop bitching and just drive, if all the aliens crash it can be our advantage :D

I got a new PB there today too :D Ima lookin to be competative this race :thumb:

[de Souza]

FO8 + digital throttle + bumpy chicane + walls = :scratchch

Should be fun though. :P

[Chrisuu01]

Me + F08 + wals close to track + alot of bumps = 22 spins +15 crashes so far

[[GT]sannjx(EST)]

Sander Kronberg ( [GT]Sannjx(EST) )

[blackbird04217]

Even though it is far pass the 48 hour deadline, we are experiencing some internet issues and awaiting the Championship Standings to be updated before creating the official sign-up and reserve list. Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.

[Stefani24]

Stefan Alfons (Stefani24)

[JasonL220]

oops, sign me up pls

Jason Lovett ( JasonL220 )

[andRo.]

Hi,

Due to some problems with my internet this week, I'm not sure if I will get to the race. :( It's beeing fixed, but I'm not sure, when it will be fixed. Maybe today, or tomorrow or next week. So, if I don't answer before the race, that I will be there, you can put me out. But until then, just leave everything how it is, because I might still make it.

[andRo.]

Sry for doublepost.

My internet got fixed, so I will be to the race. :thumb:

EDIT: What are your times?
After 20 laps of racing I got 38.10, but then after another 1h of racing I didn't beat it. :( But I got TPB=37.78, and 1st split 32.63, so I think I'll get a PB tomorrow.

I think the last turn is more annoying than the chicane. Anyway, nice wr pearcy. I was amazed how fast you can go through the chicane. :D

[pearcy_2k7]

Its pretty easy if you get your line right, just follow the grrove running to it then make sure you brake quite a bit before the chicane into 3rd clip the small kurb on the right entering, let it roll and slowly get back on the power about hal way through, last corner is just throttle control really :D I expect rudy or the other aliens to get 36.7 thats about my spb but they will be a little faster :razz:

[zeugnimod]

36.7? :x

I can't even get below 39.00 regularly. :schwitz:

[niall09]

I'll be up for some practice later on...although I'm sure it won't help me much.

Dave, Rudy and Nolan just arrive with about 30mins to the event and still pwn hard ^^

[Mackie The Staggie]

Got my PB down to 37.91, but regulary getting a 38.2

Might get a bit of practise shortly online.

[Chrisuu01]

Cont me out for tnhis event I have mairage to go to:shrug:

[niall09]

Just done some hotlapping there, my PB is 37.7. My S1 is better than WR though :tilt:

[pearcy_2k7]

1st split is nub stuff :D I can't get the line right and you need to get it perfect on my set as its a little understeery.

[andRo.]

Pearcy, is it possible to get your setup? Couldn't find it anywhere, and I have some inferno setup I think. :shrug:

If it is, post it here, or just send it by PM.

Agree, it's easy to get 1st split, but I just suck in the 2nd split. :D

[blackbird04217]

I will get around to sorting the sign-up and reserve lists as soon as I get a chance. Sorry for such a late delay, I have been terribly busy...

[Flame CZE]

I'm sorry but I will probably not be available in this event :( I go away tomorrow and I don't know when I come back home.

[AMB]

I'm out.

[andRo.]

Pearcy, no need for the set anymore. Already got it. :nod:

Got my PB to 37.84, and spb is probably like 37.74!

[blackbird04217]

What times are we doing on the standing lap?

Also remember to practice with the cold tires, because you only have 1 outlap and 1 hotlap during qualifying. It makes no sense to practice with warm tires.

:D

Good luck

[Mackie The Staggie]

What times are we doing on the standing lap?

Also remember to practice with the cold tires, because you only have 1 outlap and 1 hotlap during qualifying. It makes no sense to practice with warm tires.

:D

Good luck

Can't mind what I did on a standing start (think it was 42.??) but the 37.91 was on the second lap.

Don't think cold tires are such an issue with the F08, after the out lap they should be heated enough.....unless I'm abnormally hard on my tires'

[zeugnimod]

I just did a 37.34 and have no idea how. :rofl:

[blackbird04217]

I just did a 37.34 and have no idea how. :rofl:

Well you better show me then forget :P

[Mischief007]

I can't make it. I'm working...

[Hawku]

Im in if there's room.

Heikki Jaakkola (Hawku)

[JoLe]

Jouko Leskelä (JoLe)

[niall09]

PB is now 37.18 with a .7 split 1...

I think my spb is like 36.98 or smth :D

[Rudy van Buren]

quali times dont matter anyway aslong your in the top 16 :tilt:

[zeugnimod]

Im in if there's room.

Heikki Jaakkola (Hawku)

Shit, another place further down. :D

I think you have to sign up for the whole league here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=51366) as well.

[Minimaxman]

Can't make it again, sorry.

[go_carter]

Kim André Gjerde (go_carter)

[andRo.]

Just did a 37.63, but I hit the wall 4 times in the 2nd split. :D I don't know if the wall hitting slows down, but oh well.

And don't worry about my lag that I just had, it's because my sister is downloading something again, and she said she won't download anything at 21:00, so then I won't be lagging. :nod: I hope.

[Tomhah]

37.19 with a 12:72 split

[Stefani24]

singing out of this one, lack of time ( gotta go somewhere)
Wish yall a good and fun event and may the best (Rudy :p) win.

[pearcy_2k7]

Sorry can't make this... thought i would be home in time, apparently not :(

[Mp3 Astra]

If you make it in time for quali 2, then you have a chance.

[Rudy van Buren]

Nice event, everything went well until the semi's,

again me and nolan, gets cinda normal i almost say

i get a bump into the last turn wich ruiens my exit and he passes me to the s/f line nice to diside the champs like this :thumb:

[Mp3 Astra]

Nice event, everything went well until the semi's,

again me and nolan, gets cinda normal i almost say

i get a bump into the last turn wich ruiens my exit and he passes me to the s/f line nice to diside the champs like this :thumb:

Well, you're no stranger to a bit of contact (see event 1) - it comes with the territory. It's racing.

[pearcy_2k7]

Its different if Nolan as a result of doing it won the race (im assuming it was because of nolan). Thats just not on.

[Rudy van Buren]

Well, you're no stranger to a bit of contact (see event 1) - it comes with the territory. It's racing.

That wasnt compaireble to what happend here, i went for the attack there and there was no problem until we made small contact ( after that contact he would have had the best exit anyway ) and some lag spun me there, you as admin should know better that this aint the same :tilt:

[bbman]

Was clean from my perspective... The pass was a result of the slipstream (Nolan was tucked in behind your exhaust even before the corner) and you making him room on the inside... Your own fault for not defending...

[niall09]

Good job Nolan on this event. :thumb:

Its different if Nolan as a result of doing it won the race (im assuming it was because of nolan). Thats just not on.

Nolan would have been in his stream anyway, I'd say.

[Rudy van Buren]

Was clean from my perspective... The pass was a result of the slipstream (Nolan was tucked in behind your exhaust even before the corner) and you making him room on the inside... Your own fault for not defending...

its about what brought him into that position, without the contact and giving me a good exit it would be a just or just not slipstream for him now it sertainly was easy :shrug:

anyway this prolly aint the place to argue about this, just talk about your own happy races and just read over my complain if your not involved :)

[DaveWS]

It was unfortunate for Rudy, although Nolan had caught up a little through the chicane so I was expecting him to be in the draft anyway after the final turn. I'm pretty sure Nolan lifted after the contact to allow Rudy to sort himself out.

Shit happens. It certainly did in my race, I don't know if Michael lagged at all, but one minute he was flatout, the next he was at a standstill well before I would normally brake, and I couldn't react in time. It's probably my fault though for being undercautious. :shrug:

[Mp3 Astra]

Nolan tried to avoid contact, and would have been in the slipstream anyway - it was a lose-lose situation for you, I'm afraid. Sorry!
And Pearcy, I don't think you should comment when you didn't see what happened.

EDIT: Dave - Sorry if I lagged, I just thought that you drove into the back of me. If it was lag, I unreservedly apologise.

[BigTime]

It was unfortunate for Rudy, although Nolan had caught up a little through the chicane so I was expecting him to be in the draft anyway after the final turn. I'm pretty sure Nolan lifted after the contact to allow Rudy to sort himself out.


That was my argument...

[pearcy_2k7]

Why should i not? If it happened like Rudy said, then theres a big difference between event 1 and what happened today. I don't need to watch anything if what rudy said is true.

[zeugnimod]

I beat de Souza. Twice. I'm happy. :D

[andRo.]

Before the race, I couldn't manage to get a good time, and everyone had such a good time. But in the race I understood, that the time didn't really help in this event, but more like the concentration and the stability.

For me it was very lucky that I got to the finals, because I also made mistakes and I was pretty nervous. Don't know why, I'm not usually like this.

Then in final Nolan made me feel like it is my first day playing LFS. :D Good racing Nolan. There was no way I could of kept up with you + I think I span in all the 4 races.

Congrats to all of the finishers.

Next event should be more fun for me. I like LX's, so we will see what happens.

Thank you for the race organizers. Really like this league, and the organization is perfect. :thumb:

[Mp3 Astra]

Congrats Andris - you really punched above your weight.

Why should i not? If it happened like Rudy said, then theres a big difference between event 1 and what happened today. I don't need to watch anything if what rudy said is true.

Yes, but you're taking the word of a guy who just got out of the car and is not happy about it. I wouldn't use that as a basis to your argument, if I were you.

[andRo.]

I guess it's not going to be possible to listen to the radio broadcast from today's event, right?

[Mp3 Astra]

I guess it's not going to be possible to listen to the radio broadcast from today's event, right?

Not for a while. I hope it won't break this time.

[pearcy_2k7]

Yes, but you're taking the word of a guy who just got out of the car and is not happy about it. I wouldn't use that as a basis to your argument, if I were you.


Well, if you replied with "it didn't happen like that, it was clean and he would of had the slipstream anyway" then fair enough, but you didn't, you just said it was "evens" as rudy gave some contact in round 1, i was just simply explaining to you, the two situations are totally different.

[Kid222]

Sorry De Souza, i have new nemesis... andRo. :D
0,02 is very small margin, but still i am failing in round one. Congrats andRo for making it into finals, at least i could say i lost with man on second place.:D

[Mp3 Astra]

at least i could say i lost with man on second place.:d

+1

[de Souza]

Sorry De Souza, i have new nemesis... andRo. :D

Yeah no problem, he deserves it. A bit lucky maybe but he did his stuff throught the event and left with a lot of points.

Good stuff from Nolan again, strong performance. About the contact, nothing to say really... pretty normal stuff, happened at lot at the chicane braking zone as well.

I beat de Souza. Twice. I'm happy. :D

I won't say you deserved because you spun on a corner exit right after my race! It was a good fight on race 1 though, I'm sure you got pretty scared of losing after my incredible-pass-that-ended-at-the-chicane-wall. :tilt:


Edit: oh and the qualify was priceless! :D

[blackbird04217]

Well here are the Race Replays for all to watch... Soon we will have a media section on the Head-to-Head website that will hold all replays in the future, and contain all the replays back to the Racing Series of 08.

[zeugnimod]

Sorry De Souza, i have new nemesis... andRo. :D

Don't worry, he already has his hands full with me. :razz:

[Chrisuu01]

Sorry for my absence my uncle turned 60 so I had to come

[niall09]

Sorry for my absence my uncle turned 60 so I had to come

Eww, too much info..


*gets coat..

[Chrisuu01]

Eww, too much info..


*gets coat..

why it was party i had to come to not like i wanted it it or something:x

And WTH what kind of weird things are you thinking

[zeugnimod]

And WTH what kind of weird things are you thinking

After joining the My3id IRC channel earlier tonight, I'm not surprised anymore. :D

[niall09]

After joining the My3id IRC channel earlier tonight, I'm not surprised anymore. :D
:shy:

I'm not like this, I swear!!

[Chrisuu01]

After joining the My3id IRC channel earlier tonight, I'm not surprised anymore. :D


Im scared:schwitz:

Youd better do your best at swearing it to convince me

[andRo.]

Here, I edited couple of pictures from yesterdays event. Sry for LQ skins, I don't have your HQ skins.

One of the pictures is .jpg, because in .png it was over 2 mb, and the limit is like 1.x mb, but I don't think that it lost it's quality after saving it as .jpg!

[zeugnimod]

I just woke up and can't find the promised updated chapionship standings!

I am sad now: :sadbanana

:razz:

[Mp3 Astra]

Here, I edited couple of pictures from yesterdays event. Sry for LQ skins, I don't have your HQ skins.

One of the pictures is .jpg, because in .png it was over 2 mb, and the limit is like 1.x mb, but I don't think that it lost it's quality after saving it as .jpg!

Those are excellent pictures! :thumbsup: If you don't mind, I will use those when we update the website.

[andRo.]

No, I don't mind. You can do whatever you want with them. :nod:

[BigTime]

Those are excellent pictures! :thumbsup: If you don't mind, I will use those when we update the website.

+1. Nice usage of levels and curves. DO MORE! :nod:

BTW, I noticed that the 2nd image's top cut (the black, widescreen sections) does not complete the frame. You might want to delete those 15 or 20 pixels on the left side of that segment.

[andRo.]

I didn't even notice it. Thx for telling...fixed it. :thumb:

[de Souza]

I just woke up and can't find the promised updated chapionship standings!

I am sad now: :sadbanana

:razz:

I blame Benjamim Button. :shrug:


Edit: -----------------------------------------------------------

Stats are up along with the results sheet on our website (http://simracers.50webs.net/h2h/). Two new drivers made it into the top 10, Tim in tenth and Bernhard Bendl in nineth - congrats you are famous now and appear in the front page. :)

I won't spoil the other position changes, see for yourself. :thumb:

[blackbird04217]

WoooO! Top 10 buddy! (without my penalty I would be tied with Bernhard!)

[Mp3 Astra]

1 point behind ya, Blackbird! MUAHAHAHAHHA

[andRo.]

Nice, the points are pretty close between 4th to 7th place, so next event promises to be hard and fun. :thumb:

[Kid222]

Guess, who's who? :D

EDIT: BTW. just ended watching replays. Nolan, you'd better be grateful that Scawen hasn't implemented proper damage model yet. :P

[pearcy_2k7]

I watched it too, and it was worse than i thought, you just used him as a brake, if you didn't hit him you'd have missed the apex imo you also made rudy get very sideways. You werent "on his exhaust" coming up to the last corner either. Ill stick me neck out and say rudy would have won if you didn't hit him...

[Tomhah]

Wow. Watch the replay between Rudy and Nolan two times. One in Nolan's car, and one time in Rudy's. In Nolan's car, it looks like a very small hit, but in Rudy's car, it looks like a big hit.


I wont say anything more.

[BigTime]

if you didn't hit him you'd have missed the apex

No I wouldn't... I even locked the tires and the apex was satisfactory.

Pearcy, you seem to need some guidance in understanding the crash, so go watch the WR braking zone for that corner. The car has a greater speed going into the corner and still brakes later... Regardless of which, it was well within slip streaming range.

I think Rudy summed it up really well in one of our conversations. The LFS physics simply over emphasizes the contact. In real life, Rudy's car wouldn't have gotten that loose. Just like the iTCC crash I was in with Lind... That stuff just isn't supposed to happen.

[Mp3 Astra]

Not even physics... Just latency and netcode, I think :(

[BigTime]

Not even physics... Just latency and netcode, I think :(

Yeah, pretty much. I should have said that it's the netcode and latency that messes up our physics.

[pearcy_2k7]

No I wouldn't... I even locked the tires and the apex was satisfactory.

Pearcy, you seem to need some guidance in understanding the crash, so go watch the WR braking zone for that corner. The car has a greater speed going into the corner and still brakes later... Regardless of which, it was well within slip streaming range.

I think Rudy summed it up really well in one of our conversations. The LFS physics simply over emphasizes the contact. In real life, Rudy's car wouldn't have gotten that loose. Just like the iTCC crash I was in with Lind... That stuff just isn't supposed to happen.

Dude i had the WR before the event and im still quicker than you there, so maybe your the one needing some guidance on the braking zones? I know that corner well enough to know you were pretty close to the overshoot area, rudy braked earlier to get a better exit but when you hit him you totally ****ed up the plan, so hes braked a hole lot earlier than you, then you hit him mess up his exit and he slows you down to get a better exit.

Yeah the LFS physics are messed up but how long have you been playing for? you should know by now, no?

[BigTime]

Dude i had the WR before the event and im still quicker than you there, so maybe your the one needing some guidance on the braking zones?

Considering the fact you thought I would miss that apex confirms who needs the guidance. :elefant:

The early braking that you referred to is what forced the lock up. The part about the LFS physics that is notable is the fact that it is unpredictable and sometimes (not all the time pearcy) unrealistic. This was the whole reason for bringing it up, and I just figured you would know that by now...

I'm pretty much done discussing this publicly until someone involved with the incident (that means Rudy or myself Pearcy) feels the need to further discuss it. We've talked about this on MSN and that's where we're going to keep the discussion for now. Your more than entitled to post your opinions, but I'm going to stay out of it from here on out.

[andRo.]

Guys, I think you should calm down...

1. It was an accident, that happens every day on LFS. There is no way we can avoid them forever, so you shouldn't get too mad about it.

2. Everyone knows that Rudy and Nolan are very good racers, so I think they can discuss this by themselves, and they know better what to do etc.

3. Your WR has nothing to do with Nolan's and Rudy's accident. And neither does Nolan's LFS experience. I think even the best drivers make mistakes, and everyone always will. We've all been in the accidents, and we've all have crashed someone etc., so we shouldn't yell at the other person when he makes a mistake, even if he has a lot of experience in LFS. (Not in all situations though. I'm not talking about crashers, who crash on purpose etc.)

4. The guy who is behind is responsible of not hitting the person in front. That means if the person brakes too early or something else goes wrong, you must be ready to avoid it or not to hit the person in front of you. (Nothing against Nolan, or Rudy, I just think it was "another" everyday accident.)

5. The combo was pretty tough, and it was very easy to spin the car around.

6. And if Rudy has nothing to say about it anymore, and they've discussed it privately, then we shouldn't be discussing it here on forum anymore.

Let's just forget about it, and prepare for next event. :thumb:

[blackbird04217]

I will need to agree. There was no complaint filed to the admins, and therefore it stands as a simple racing incident. I've watched the replay several times, and although one could argue that Nolan would have been in the slip stream without the bump, the bump did cause Rudy to lose some time. Nolan could have passed right away had he continued turning in and used his speed, but instead he did the respectful, sportsmanlike thing by slowing with the competitor, and staying behind. Yes, he did keep some of the speed advantage, and did get further into the slip stream, but this was a racing incident. Nobody can claim otherwise, and this discussion is over. Go discuss the final event pre-race. It is only 2 weeks away and will be incredibly important for the championship; Rudy still has a fighting chance to take the win, and a lot of other people are fighting for positions within the lower ranks as well! Great championship going on guys!