making your own car ?

[enzodiac]

Hi folks
This is a question for the makers of LFS. Are you planning on releasing tools so that one can make their own cars for this awesome game ? I think its a shame that car games almost never are made for modders :(

[ATHome]

Maybe they will release tools for making addon cars after S3, so a long time to wait.

I will enjoy the cars which are in the game until then.

[tristancliffe]

It is thought that one day, yes, we will be able to make our own cars and or tracks.

But it's a major problem in sim racing - if someone just makes a GTR car than can pull 7G and do 400mph then they'll win until someone does something more extreme. At the other end of the scale (hang on, just got to tend to my engine model, brb. Okay done that) if someone makes a nice 'mod' that introduces a class or several classes of racing then it has to be done to a very high standard to be any good.

rFactor is a prime example. There are many many mods of cars and tracks, but there is only two or three worthwhile car mods (4 if you count the karts), and only half a dozen finished tracks of a good standard. The rest just makes rFactor look like junk (which it is, but thats another story, so no flaming here peeps!).

[Don]

track & car editor released for everyone cant end very well :Looking_a

ex:
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=350894&d=1140418967
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=349314&d=1139758252
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=340401&d=1136340895
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280
etc...

[axus]

:scratchch :Looking_a :pillepall That's disgusting, Don.
Guys, don't look - danger of permanent damage to retina.

[Hyperactive]

It's creativity ;)

(it's hard to write anything when your eyes are bleeding...)

Having gazillion different tracks isn't really problem, because you can still have good races there with good cars. But if the cars are not good and everybody is on his own server with his Supra GT awd 999hp mod there isn't even people to race with.

Just make the modding so hard that only the most committed and best mods survive. :)

[DodgeRacer]

yeah, i'd like to see a track making program (but hard to use, or a pain in the ass like sandbox) but not car/physics editing.

[george_tsiros]

What is wrong with the attachment which shows half a dozen super7s? The others, ok, they are teh suck... but this?

[Funnybear]

Surely if LFS has the kick arse Physics engine that it is destined to have then breing able to implement your own design vehicles would actually work. Obviously you would have open servers for all and restricted servers for proved and tested cars but if there are no 'bugs' to exploit then each 'design' would be susceptable to real world physical limitations. Nothing is a great leveler than physics.

[XCNuse]

*cough*custom tracks suck*cough*
wow.. talk about diversity, i wonder if a server owner has ever had more than 10 people on a server at a time with .. everything that is required..

[WorldFamous]

yeah, i'd like to see a track making program (but hard to use, or a pain in the ass like sandbox)

That's just counter productive. The easier it is for people to work with something the more time they can devote to polishing the product rather than having to jump through hoops just to get it working.

Yes, making it easy will bring a lot of sub standard items to the party but like with any other game, people will only download and continually use the quality stuff.

There are a lot of terrible skins out there but I don't hear people calling for the devs to make that more difficult so only the most commited survive.

[Theafro]

I reckon it might be ok to have custom cars, as long as there's some sort of scrutineering system in place, as long as the car adheres to the formula/rules then it can race, i'm not talking about the same sort of freedom as fonny's creations:D. Something like a fixed engine, min/max dimentions, standardized wings, etc.

it would be a much more realistic way of doing things, and would leave plenty of room for design ingenuity:pillepall.

might be tough to implement but I it world be worth it.

As far as tracks go, I'm all for open tracks, i would prefer that to custom cars, I think it would bring some real racetracks into LFS:thumb:.

I'm tempted to say the N word but i won't.;)

[NaBUru38]

One question: why does "open-source software" exist for?

Yes, I know you three work too much to make it for free. But the gaming community is waiting for the developers to release official game editors. Older / simpler racing games have them (GeneRally, Stunts Car...) but nobody has ever allowed to make a full 3D racing track with permission. Why are you wanting to delay this?

It's true, in the GeneRally database therer were thousends (not overdone) of boring/ugly tracks... until the Track of the Month apperared. Racers could check which tracks had won a prize, which meant they were awsome.

The same could be done for LFS, but a little bit organised (not centralised, btw). In the official forum (here) track designers would discuss new projects, and could work in a team. If a designer found that someone else was doing the same track (especially real tracks), he/she could join the other person and finish the track in less time and with better quality.
Each new track could be sent to a website (any large website) and receive opinions, suggestions and votes. If the designer or someone else thought that the track was good enough, it could be presented in an official competition. This can mean it made available in a public server, where drivers could test it and also comment. The best tracks could be included in the fowllowing version of the game.

The same could happen for mods. E.g. the LFS developers could improve the mod so it gets better for official release.

Legal editing and modding is the future of videogames. Be the first group to make it possible.

[tristancliffe]

One question: why does "open-source software" exist for?

Yes, I know you three work too much to make it for free. But the gaming community is waiting for the developers to release official game editors. Older / simpler racing games have them (GeneRally, Stunts Car...) but nobody has ever allowed to make a full 3D racing track with permission. Why are you wanting to delay this?

It's true, in the GeneRally database therer were thousends (not overdone) of boring/ugly tracks... until the Track of the Month apperared. Racers could check which tracks had won a prize, which meant they were awsome.

The same could be done for LFS, but a little bit organised (not centralised, btw). In the official forum (here) track designers would discuss new projects, and could work in a team. If a designer found that someone else was doing the same track (especially real tracks), he/she could join the other person and finish the track in less time and with better quality.
Each new track could be sent to a website (any large website) and receive opinions, suggestions and votes. If the designer or someone else thought that the track was good enough, it could be presented in an official competition. This can mean it made available in a public server, where drivers could test it and also comment. The best tracks could be included in the fowllowing version of the game.

The same could happen for mods. E.g. the LFS developers could improve the mod so it gets better for official release.

Legal editing and modding is the future of videogames. Be the first group to make it possible.
The first apart from rFactor, racer, Netkar..... and look where it got them.

I'm not adverse to community modding, but not if there is much of a chance with stupid cars or tracks flooding the system.

Right now we DO have people putting two black lines on a jpeg and calling it a skin, or people randomly putting 200 cones on a straight and calling it a track. Just think what'd be like if we allowed them to 'make' cars!! If they could only be used after moderation then maybe thats okay, but who and how?

I say, assume the worst (it won't be possible) then be happy if it does :D

[richy]

it would be nice if you could design your own wheels. oh yes that would be sweet.

[B2B@300]

I rekkon it would be good to have some modding :) (i.e. bathurst :D, and V8 Supercars, or DTM ) but too cut out all the half assed modds, I think it shouldn't be moddable by the general public, but rather the developers issue lic's to certain qualified people that can produce quality mods and have the credentials to prove it :scratchch

[george_tsiros]

I'm tempted to say the N word but i won't.;)
oh
the N word. I think you mean (http://www.lfsforum.net/)NURBURGRING (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)? (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)

Yes, NURBURGRING (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)would be a great addition... and i wonder if anyone could hack NURBURGRING (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)into LFS since there is already an "open" version for it, for RACER.NL (http://www.racer.nl/)

:Looking_a

[KurtG85]

Its funny to crash and see how the effects the damage modeling has on your car makes it look like some real life cars (occasionally). I was thinking it would be pretty cool if there was a tool that allowed modders to manipulate the damage engine (stretch a little here, smooth a bit here) in order to create variants on the car bodies that appear in game. You could easily create bodies that look near identical to certain real life cars (or just create something crazy looking that doesnt handle like it just did 100 mph into a wall).

[Funnybear]

Don't know how comprehensive the aero is atm (Or how complicated it will get with the next physics patch) but messing around with the crash damage distortions can only be detrimental to your performance. Thats not really in the ethos of LFS.

If LFS could really get accurate enough then the design tools you could implement are ma-husive. A wind tunnel, engine workshop, all those testing facilities, the pit lane would have to become about 10 times more functional than it is now . . .

Making a car for LFS wouldn't be just a case of dropping a body on a chassis and plugging in an engine (Unless it was a purpose built mod with stock shapes and engines Etc.) You would have to make everything from the ground up. I don't think there are many of us that could make a workable vehicle model to implement into LFS.

[Billeh]

http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.p...7&d=1136933280

well what can i say thats awsome :) graphics r great the suroundings of the track r just jaw droping god where can i get that from :scratchch :schwitz: :saythat:

[Michel 4AGE]

oh
the N word. I think you mean NURBURGRING (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)? (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)

Yes, NURBURGRING (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)would be a great addition... and i wonder if anyone could hack NURBURGRING (http://www.racer-xtreme.com/track.php?tk=36)into LFS since there is already an "open" version for it, for RACER.NL (http://www.racer.nl/)

:Looking_a


Perhaps you mean the NORDSCHLEIFE instead of the F1-track ?!

[enzodiac]

wow many replies.
It sounds on the most of you that custom cars would destroy the whole game. I mean if you dont like a custom car why download it ? In my case, modding is an oportunity to get my models in a game.

And it is not impossible to make servers restrict custom models. If you dont want to race with custom models, just connect to a restricted server.

I think modding is something that makes a game last longer AND gives people like me a chance to polish their modelling skills and actually be able to test their own things inside a game-engine.

[filur]

I spent alot of time in the quake 1 scene during it's days, there were thousands and thousands
of maps around, and this was never a problem for anyone.

Also, it wasn't necessarily the zoolander (really-really good looking) maps that got themselves onto popular servers.

Tristan seems to say rubbish tracks has somewhat crippled racer and netkar, but for me they were basically the only reason for really trying those programs for more than 10 minutes, as i found the somewhat-better-looking-"official" tracks of these sims to be extremely dull.
I even almost liked the netkar nurburgring, even though it's basically the worst looking track ever.

I guess this topic was about customs cars though :)

[Vykos69]

One question: why does "open-source software" exist for?

I'm just picking this one, cause: If you want Open Source Racegame, go 4 RACER. You'll see how fast and great it develops.

Why is windows used on so many desktop PCs? Why isnt it an open source system? Cause not every user wants to check every now and then if some freak somewhere on the world coded som elittle maybe cool thing for his system. Even if M$ sux big time etc. it still gives us the most compatible software platform all over the world. Same goes for a non open gamesoftware:
It gives us a paltform to compete on with the same "weapons" all over the world. And the user and online playing numbers - even small - show that this is the right way to go.

Maybe in the future Eric decides to accept tracks from the outside, but will then check through them and only the best of the best of the best will get an OK. In terms of cars, I dont think and i actually do not hope that this will happen.

[BlakjeKaas]

I think it would be cool if you have the 25 km long Nurbürgring ( or how long it may be)

but with MORE player cars possible, else you got no race...

[Goresh]

Question to the ones crying no to allowing modding in LFS. Once LFS is finished in every aspect the developers have planned, how long will peoples interest be held without the community stepping up and continuing the work? You say there is a chance some might release poorly created cars or tracks, and I'm sure your right, but, in any other sim I've raced, the community is never shy about pointing out the short falls of a track or a car. Why would this be different in LFS? Besides if you download an addon and in your opinion it sucks, can't you just uninstall it?
This attitude that modding will kill a sim is a total joke and so far from the truth it baffles my mind you actual waste your time trying to convince people. Modding has extended the life on many different games, not just racing, I might add. How do you explain this I wonder?

[the_angry_angel]

One question: why does "open-source software" exist for?LFS will never be open, at least in the near future. There have been very heated discussions on this, which I'm sure you're aware of. Its The Team's choice at the end of the day.

To be honest, I'm partially in agreement with Scawen / Victor / Eric on keeping LFS closed. As much as I love Open / Libre software, some projects just dont benefit in the long term. Whilst Apache maybe the greatest bit of HTTPD software of all time, a massive amount of shit gets dumped into the trunk, which the release manager then has to clean out before release time. Its likely that the same would happen with LFS. Plus if LFS was openned then Scawen would have to spend his time documenting the whole thing. No progress made. Just look at Open Office; about 6 people understand it as a whole.

Yes, I know you three work too much to make it for free. But the gaming community is waiting for the developers to release official game editors. Older / simpler racing games have them (GeneRally, Stunts Car...) but nobody has ever allowed to make a full 3D racing track with permission. Why are you wanting to delay this?I'm afraid to say the people who want the ability to create custom tracks an vehicles for LFS is tiny. Something else to note is that most of the games you've listed were in an almost complete stage. LFS is not. As Scawen said at the meet, the tools change often, create in compatibilities, etc. The community couldnt cope. Wouldnt you be a bit pissed if you updated a tool and your track which you Just Finished(TM) was screwed again?

The same could be done for LFS, but a little bit organised (not centralised, btw). In the official forum (here) track designers would discuss new projects, and could work in a team. If a designer found that someone else was doing the same track (especially real tracks), he/she could join the other person and finish the track in less time and with better quality.Things never work out that way. Sometimes it would be better to fork, or even branch an open source project, but how many damn bits of software just start from scratch? Humans like to do their own things, they're not inherently collaborative. For instance Micheal Meeks who works on OpenOffice said he once wrote his own spreadsheet in java to get out of doing the actual accounts data he needed it to do, and also because it would be cool.

Legal editing and modding is the future of videogames. Be the first group to make it possible.First group....that conflicts with your point above. You've already shown they aren't the first, and they definately wouldn't be the first open source game which you can mod. I'm clearly not understanding this point...

Even if M$ sux big time etc. it still gives us the most compatible software platform all over the world. I'd argue that whilst Microsoft products maybe the most widely deployed consumer systems, they definately arent the most "compatible", in the traditional sense. And to be honest, theres no reason why you can't or shouldn't run Open or Libre software on a closed platform..

[Gener_AL (UK)]

I used to dabble quite alot with the FPS editing tools for most major games and have made maps for (HL Q1,2&3 RTCW and MoH) , the thing really do like about LFS is the "lack" of modding tools for vehicle creation, with LFS still in alpha and S3 still in devs head, this is somthing id rather have after the project is complete.

But it's a major problem in sim racing - if someone just makes a GTR car than can pull 7G and do 400mph then they'll win until someone does something more extreme this is what i see happening if it was to come to be. Also how would you hotlap these things ie get them intergated into LFSworld ? LFSworld is the ICING on the cake For LFS imo.

But track Editing i can see a few problems with it, but surely if the track is good enough it will be used and accepted, surely there will be real bad creations , but like any art , some people are good some are genius, most are below average, but just imagine ....... south city mega long :jawdrop:
Guess what im trying to say is no making your own car is somthing id rather see in some other racing game, LFS is pure sim , lets keep it that way please :thumb:

[DasBoeseC]

In terms of cars, I dont think and i actually do not hope that this will happen.

.....okay....I give up....this sentence is too much for my little brain ;) :razz:

Nurbürgring

Everyone repeate: NÜRBURGRING NORDSCHLEIFE

;)

About the Topic?

I think when LFS is finished it might be cool to have it opened a tiny bit so stuff could be designed and then be authorized by the Devs (or some people chosen by them) to implementation into the game.....so there might be some LFS-Quality-Seal for Add-Ons.....

.....and somehow I like the idea of a race series that gives the teams some rules.....and then they design their cars according to these rules.....I WANT MY GROUP C RACING!!!!!!!

Lord.....there is so much that MIGHT be possible in the future......guess we will have to wait ;)

CU, Sebastian

[tristancliffe]

Racer might only have held your interest for 10 minutes because of the modding, but plently of people have loved LFS without modding for over 3 years.

But lets say modding is allowed. Someone makes an F1 mod, someone else makes a DTM mod, someone else makes a kart mod, someone else makes an F3 mod, someone else makes a Stock Car Mod, someone else makes a NASCAR mod... All is fine and dandy to begin with, and we all think hurrah for modding. But then the F1 mod never gets updated or it's bugs fixed. Or the download links change for another mod. Or a patch is released for a mod, but only works with certain other mods. How is anyone, especially a newbie, supposed to ensure he has the most up to date compatible mod at any given moment.

It's exactly like rFactor - it was made to be modded. The devs didn't even bother to make decent cars or tracks to start with, so it HAD to be modded. But now there are 100's of mods, and all bar 3 are utterly crap. Same with tracks - that Nordschlief is poo, and I'm, not going to bother trying to drive it until it works - even seen 2ft kerbs at a race track?

I've played rFactor quite a lot, and do have even the teensiest amount of fun I had to faff around for ages making sure that I had the most up to date versions, which meant a trawl through lots and lots of threads and websites. And then I might discover that my friend doesn't have the latest version of, say, donington, so we can't play it anyway, cos he can't be bothered to get the latest version right now.

The ONLY way to make modding a racing game work is to have it as part of the game. This would mean that someone (either the Devs until they 'retire' from LFS or a specified replacement) would be the ONLY one who can add mods to the game. Then if you want to download the mods you download a mod-pack which is guaranteed to be the same for everyone ("I'm using Mod-Pack 3, so you'll need to upgrade from 2 to play with me, cos it's not Donington in it"). A pack could be released every 6 months or so (depending on what happens).

So open modding, imo, will destroy LFS. But 'closed modding' MIGHT add a little bit to it. It keeps it simple for the end user, keeps it simple for the modder (how to get your mod seen), and keeps out the vast majority of poo work which will undoubtedly be spammed everywhere like AutoX layouts are today.

[DodgeRacer]

That's just counter productive. The easier it is for people to work with something the more time they can devote to polishing the product rather than having to jump through hoops just to get it working.

Yes, making it easy will bring a lot of sub standard items to the party but like with any other game, people will only download and continually use the quality stuff.

There are a lot of terrible skins out there but I don't hear people calling for the devs to make that more difficult so only the most commited survive.

I don't think I came off clearly, I dont mean like make it hard just for the sake of being hard, i mean very detailed, very complicated, so you can actually make tracks that are up to the standard the game already as, not dumbed down like i have seen in Rfactor and other games...


"*cough*custom tracks suck*cough*"

And coustom tracks do not suck, i happen to have hundreds of hours in coustom tracks for nascar 2003 :wtf2::inq:

[enzodiac]

i can not agree with everyone who thinks that modding can destroy a game. It's your choice to download custom stuff and i dont think the intention of making a game moddable was that the custom models would end up in the actual game in some release.
Modding can also be for the single individual, trying out modellingskills and so on.

[NaBUru38]

I'm not saying that the developers should release a track+car editor now, of course I mean it for the "post-S3 era". I am sure that if LFS works there will be an S4, an S5... until the name looks old and change the naming system for T1 or something.
And the "open-source software" thing was just to say that users will have the chance to improve what they use in the future. I could also have said "wiki". Do you have bad articles on Wikipedia? Yes. Are there extremely good articles in Wikipedia? Yes.

You think that, as too few people play LFS, a single mod will be used by only ten drivers. But if everybody knew they would have a place to show their skills, more players would join LFS (and not necessarily n00bs or arcade fans) and design tracks and cars.
In older games too few people have made decent add-ons, you say. That happened because editors were either buggy, number-flooded, so only few had the guts to face the nightmare.

With a community like this one, in some months (or a year, is there any problem with that?) non-professional professional-like people (which I've found in GP2, NFS, Re-Volt and other edited games) will be abled to make better tracks and cars than the original ones. Some people work for months just to make a non-profit masterpiece, but until now they have not been thanked enough.
Mods will never make old-school drivers quit, because they can ignore the mods and play the original version.

About the "extreme car" thing. If I create an extrafast car just to make a hotlap, and someone makes another one... that's one thing. But not everybody who wants to make a car desires a FnF-killer. If I want to make a ¡95 V8 Supercar Falcon, I'll try to make the performance and handling as close to the real car. And if someone else makes a '95 Commodore, it will not necessarily be five seconds faster on Aston Historic, it will have another bodyshape and similar performance (yes, in real ilfe there are technical differences so they can race equally).
Bodyshapes could be just like skins. They don't have to affect the car behaviour (if they have the same length, wheeltrack...). Someone could make a 205 or a Grande Punto on XF's base, without changing the performance and compatible in a XF-only race (yes, the car would be a little strecthed - that will be fixed).

Why is rFactor not working? I think because they pretend to be a simulator, while it's not. If they said "ok, this is a middle way between simulation and playabilitty", many fans (not hardcore ones but other ones) would go for it. BTW, when were the editors released? People have to learn to use editors, nobody learns to make a pro-like add-on in three months.
Why is racer not working? because only one person is making it and has never seen nothing in return ($$$). He can't work on the game for three years for free. Your license system worked.
And have you tried tthe unofficial track editor? It's close to impossible, and you need more tools (3d Studio...).
If you encourage people to make better add-ons, with your experience on the issue and official help files, forums and wikis, professional-like mods will be possible. (if you want...)

[shim]

I'm tempted to say the N word but i won't.;)

i covered my ears cause i thought you where about to say NI!!!!

[filur]

I had to faff around for ages making sure that I had the most up to date versions, which meant a trawl through lots and lots of threads and websites. And then I might discover that my friend doesn't have the latest version of, say, donington, so we can't play it anyway, cos he can't be bothered to get the latest version right now.

This is the problem, not the content itself.

Oh the memories of quakeworld, join a server, you get the mod automatically, you get the maps installed, you join the game.

Ofcourse there's quite a change in filesize, but it's not completely unfeasible to have a central repository for even the 400 mb downloads, last time i installed debian linux i think i grabbed around 1 gb with the net installer.
Essentially the same idea as a mod-pack, but open to anyone, at any time, don't like a piece of content - don't use it.
It's not like every single person who figures he'll make some content will come up with a 200 mb mod.

Imagine automatically patching a mod when attempting to run it, instead of spending 30 minutes trying to search rsc for the broken url pointing to the 5 mb .zip you could have downloaded in 10 seconds, 30 minutes ago.

And, i don't really feel like there's a need for new content in lfs, but if there could be, why not. FOX on laguna seca? :smileypul

Most standard tracks for nr2003 seem to compress to around 5mb, i'd happily have my server sending 5mb tracks to new players.

So, addons and mods (tracks!) thru a well designed system, yes please, thru searching rsc, horror.

Edit: Do you have bad articles on Wikipedia? Yes. Are there extremely good articles in Wikipedia? Yes.
:thumb:

[Kegetys]

It's exactly like rFactor - it was made to be modded. The devs didn't even bother to make decent cars or tracks to start with, so it HAD to be modded.

This is exactly why rFactor is a poor example to look for when speculating what would happen to LFS if modding would be 'allowed' - It seems that most rFactor mods suck, and, in my opinion the whole game is a mess now because:

- There is almost no standards to which a good mod could be compared, only the default cars and tracks that come with rFactor, and as you said they are not of very high quality. This makes people release all kinds of junk, and even the good mods end up being built entirely differently so they dont fit together well.

- There is very little content in the game by default, so there is a huge need for mods, which makes everyone rush their mods out so they would have something to play with. This will propably improve over time though.

- Despite being built for modding, the mod suppot is crap. There is almost no official information available, no tutorials, no proper documentation, nothing. The tools aren't very easy to use, and the way the files are organized for mods isn't very good so your whole game ends up being a mess after installing a bunch of mods.

For LFS even the starting point would be different since everyone would compare the mods to the stock LFS content which is already high quality, and (hopefully) modders would try to get their things to match that quality. I think, that to make things work there should be:

- Good documentation. Not just how to use the tools, but what you should do; recommendatios on how to make the visual appearance match that of the default content, how many triangles there should be, how many LOD levels there should be, what kind of texture mapping and what kind of texture styles you should use, what elements should a good track have, and so on.

- Good mod organization. Mods should be easy to install, and easy to uninstall. Extracting 50 files to your game directory that go to ten different subdirectories is a mess. A single mod (ie. a car or track addon) should be a single packaged file that you place in a addon directory, making it easy to install, manage, and uninstall. A decent example of this is Operation Flashpoint, where regular addons are archive files that you put to a directory named 'addons', or you can make mod directories that can be used from the command line to load a bunch of addons and files that replace the default game files. For a bad example look at MS Flight simulator, where the easiest way to uninstall an addon plane is to reinstall the whole game :P

- Some feedback and interaction from the developers. For example, one important thing to keep things looking good is to have the cars all have the same visual style. This can be very difficult, so it would be great to have some comments from Eric on how he does the models and textures so other people could try to make their work look similar.

If there will be official mod support for LFS, it would also be great to have the best mods to be picked by the devs to be sort of "officially" supported. They could be added to be part of LFSworld and be promoted on the official website. These should have very strict requirements to make sure they integrate seamlessly with the official content in every way.

[StanleyCarter]

If there will be official mod support for LFS, it would also be great to have the best mods to be picked by the devs to be sort of "officially" supported. They could be added to be part of LFSworld and be promoted on the official website. These should have very strict requirements to make sure they integrate seamlessly with the official content in every way.

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

well thought out idea there. :)

[RevMonkey]

hmm, that's kinda like what valve is doing with halflife...

[Madman_CZ]

and valve made it work...... although i just dont see the need for lfs to get modded. Many have loved the game for years without any mods, mods would just ruin lfs if they are poorly done.

if u want mods play rfactor......


mad

[Funnybear]

Modding is a very 'in' thing atm. With many new releases packaged with a mod application of some description. But remember, these products are finished and have an official release. LFS is along way from that yet. Let the guys sort out the physics before pestering them to get a mod app out there. How can they give you a mod tool when they havn't even finished the very thing you wanna mod and won't have for another few years yet.

I for one would be in favour of a modding ability, not for my personal use (I am no way near literate enough to produce a half way decent mod) but I do like seeing new and interesting content. But all in good time. Start messing with the product now and you'll just end up with a mess that will only cloud the true heart of LFS and make it difficult for the Devs to get their product out there and selling well.

But when everything is hard coded for the final and last time and LFS is offiacially released then the devs could think about controlling their modders in a similar way that Valve do. By being an active component in the modding community. Staying on top of releases, aiding and giving advice and advertising good mods on their website, hosting dwloads and such like.

But, like I said, any developer activity concerning a modding kit or tools is still along way away. Give them a chance to get the game out proper first . . .

[enzodiac]

still a mod CAN'T destroy a game. And i am not talking about an app to make cars and levels in. There are programs like maya and 3dsmax you know.

[filur]

Many have loved the game for years without any mods, mods would just ruin lfs if they are poorly done.

I've used my windows box with no desktop wallpaper for years, there are really really bad wallpapers available for use, but in some brilliant way i'm not forced to using them.

.. anyway

Kegetys, packaged files ftw! :thumb: :)

Bittorrent technology for mods! snatch <option> kb/s from licensed racers racing, get a few high speed servers attached to the project, use normal bittorrent tech for when people are actually downloading something, with relaxed ratio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_Tat) settings.

Get mods ingame at blazing community-powered speed! :)

And yes, lfs isn't finished, but think tanks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank) are good :)

[keiran]

Problem with mods is they splinter the community. Once a new one comes on the scene everyone jumps over to that one even if the quality sucks. Look at all the track/car combos we have at the moment and it's always the same ones being used over and over again. So lets throw more into the equation and we end up spliting the community. There needs to be a good system in place for modding to work because mismatches are the most annoying thing in the world and rFactor is full of them if you don't keep up to date.

You have to remember the LFS devs couldn't put their names to a mod because that could cause legal issues with licensing.

I'm not against modding but I want to be able to boot my game up and be racing people within a few clicks with no frustrating troll through the internet searching for the new version of a mod etc.

Keiran

[filur]

All i'd really want is tracks, i agree full-conversion-type mods can split the community.

[QuickSilver]

track & car editor released for everyone cant end very well :Looking_a

ex:
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=350894&d=1140418967
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=349314&d=1139758252
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=340401&d=1136340895
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280
etc...

what game is that super 7 in?

[mrodgers]

I'm not against modding but I want to be able to boot my game up and be racing people within a few clicks with no frustrating troll through the internet searching for the new version of a mod etc.

Keiran
I'm with you. If I had to search the net to download the currently being used version of the mod it would go something like this:

Log on.
See where everyone is.
Search the net for the mod.
Save the url and send it to work in email.
Wait until the following day to go to work.
Download the mod at work and wait to go home.
Get home, install mod, log in only to see that now everyone is at a different mod tonight.
Rinse and repeat.

It would kill dialup users having to download all the new mods as everyone flocks to them. LFS is so fantastic for us dialup users as it is now. I connect to servers almost all over the world and race with 20+ others without problems usually. I've asked in other forums for other race sims and the answer is usually, I'd have a problem with more than a few cars in the server. LFS netcode ROCKS for us dialup users.

When broadband starts pricing it as current technology, not like new tech as it is still priced now, I'll get broadband. It should by now be priced like dialup was back when it was common. Broadband isn't new anymore!!! GET THE PRICE DOWN!!!!!

[spankmeyer]

If a game has a very large fan base, it could survive an onslaught of mods (quality ranging usually from piss-poor to good) as there would always be enough players blasting away with the unmodded version. I certainly would not want to see LFS facing the same situation as where rFactor is right now - splintered community and empty servers everywhere.

[GP4Flo]

My opinion:

- Track modding - YES with an approval system, only approved quality tracks can be played online.
- Car modding - NO, except maybe experienced modding teams with a lot of physics knowledge.

[filur]

Track modding - YES with an approval system, only approved quality tracks can be played online.

Why would you need an approval system?
What would force you to drive on tracks you dislike?

What if i want to run a server with my wip-track?

[tristancliffe]

To stop crap tracks being released and never improved after release.
It's not to stop people driving on the per se, but to stop the crap tracks making LFS look like a crap sim, just like some of the mods do with rFactor. It IS a crap sim, but the mods don't help.

Then you'd use the tools provided when modding is allowed that would let you drive your track in the car of your choice, but wouldn't have multiplayer capabilities to stop WIP tracks spreading.

[filur]

Atleast let me run a hidden server with my crap track? :)

[NaBUru38]

Many of you are saying that mods get updated every week or so. I'm not sure if that happens with some games, but it's not the only way.

Obviously a modding team will release a little improvement every two weeks, but not everybody has to get them every two weeks. That's why there are 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 versions - most of the people get the *.0 ones, and so should servers do.

[deggis]

track & car editor released for everyone cant end very well :Looking_a

ex:
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=350894&d=1140418967
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=349314&d=1139758252
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=340401&d=1136340895
http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342047&d=1136933280
etc...
LOL, but that's kinda unfair. :)

Compare those to these: http://thepits.us/gallery/rFactor-Screenshots (NATG Mod)
And a video of the same mod: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=232376&highlight=nagt+video

There is almost no standards to which a good mod could be compared, only the default cars and tracks that come with rFactor, and as you said they are not of very high quality. This makes people release all kinds of junk, and even the good mods end up being built entirely differently so they dont fit together well.
I think the current standard would be that Porsche Cup Mod. But I don't know because I don't have rFactor, altough I've been thinking about getting it.

- Despite being built for modding, the mod suppot is crap. There is almost no official information available, no tutorials, no proper documentation, nothing. The tools aren't very easy to use, and the way the files are organized for mods isn't very good so your whole game ends up being a mess after installing a bunch of mods.
Are all of the mod tools even available for everyone? As far as I know at least ISI gave mod tools in advance for some mod teams?

[codris]

Oh My God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How Do U Get Your Hands On A Download For Modding Lfs S2 Maps Or Making New Ones?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!????

[Gunn]

Oh My God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How Do U Get Your Hands On A Download For Modding Lfs S2 Maps Or Making New Ones?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!????
You don't. And LFS "maps" are full 3D environments.