ITCC - Race 1 - Post race discussion

[Dizzydarryn]

So, im the first one to be out of race of the champiosnhip, so i figured i might as well make the post race post...

Discuss Race 1 here

[Dizzydarryn]

So after a great qualifying (by my standings considering the lack of LFS ive had this past week), i qualified somewhere in the top 10. A fairly neat first start and first lap, untill i got caught up in the leaders accident. i tboned someone at full speed, flipped about a zillion times and ended up out.

A real bad experience, the only good thing, is that if it was real life, I'D BE DEAD!!!! INSTANTLY

[J@tko]

Quali - I sucked.

Race 1 - Dinner

Race 2 - dunno. I'm not Dr Who.

[Thunderhead]

One word: **CK.

[Dizzydarryn]

qualifying --> Nice, great to set a pb :-)

Race 1 --> HUGE ACcident
Race 2 --> tagged at the start and then my wheel came lose from my table...
Race 3 --> absolute carnage on the restart. i got hit so hard from the back, that i almost went throught the car in front of me...

[DeadWolfBones]

Race 1: Accident, my fault. Sorry Darryn et al. Finished last on-track after getting left behind by the safety car.

Race 2: Climbed from 25th to 7th. Great.

Race 3: Started 2nd, finished 2nd. To my teammate. Excellent!

[Hypothraxer]

I got hit in all three races - great stuff.

Race one I got hit by a spinning car in the fast tyre-chicane.

Race two I got hit by someone who was trying to avoid a car and I couldn't see that car.

Race three I got hit by a flying car after the safety car restart.

Good stuff :)

On a different note: It's amazing how some people just can't stop using the keyboard when they're told to do so. Hey - I got a PhD report to write - how about I employ you? ;)

[J@tko]

/me is not too happy.

Race 2:
Started from the back of the grid, got a pretty good start but couldn't do anything with it. First SC restart was mk, got into a fight with Tommy, but luckily he span (:schwitz:) Second SC was a welcome relief, right behind Timo now. However, managed to make him crash on the 'SC coming in lap' due to the crap way everyone seems to deal with SC periods, luckily we were on vent together so neither of us lost any places. At that restart I got an amazing restart, and loads of people got a bad one. Coming into T1 I could have passed loads of people and got up to about 5th place, but decided not to crash all the front-runners, and got to about 10th. Let Klouczech past basically as I had no chance defending against him (Timo yelled at me for that :P) then managed to have a really bad end to the race. Me, Timo and Max were 3 wide nearly over the line, and ironically, by me looking to the right to check where Max was, I crashed into him. My sincere apologies mate, that cost you a place :(

Race 3.
Good start, managed to gain a few positions. Binned it warming my tyres under SC, then due to more twats managed to sustain mega damage YET AGAIN IN THE LAST FEW CORNERS BEFORE A RESTART - PATTERN EMERGING HERE?!!!???, had to pit, cooled my tyres down beyond repair and then had a crap race. I'll be seeing you in the reserve shootout next round.

@ Admins, tyvm, you did an AWESOME job, everything by the book, great :thumbsup:

But please can you ditch the SC - it does more harm than good with these cars.

[DeadWolfBones]

SC is fine, there just need to be clearer rules about how to handle it, for the SC driver and the race drivers alike.

[J@tko]

SC is fine, there just need to be clearer rules about how to handle it, for the SC driver and the race drivers alike.
As long as everybody reads understands and adheres to the rules then there isn't a problem, no :)

But yeah, do they? :shrug:

[Vugl@]

1. Don`t change speed (1st driver) while SC is on, every time there was big mess in back.
2. Drivers from the back should not drive as fast as they can while SC is on or yelow flag, result=:scratchch mess again
3. While going back on the track, you should pay attention to other drivers...

Any way quali was very interesting and i had good racing with Arni Arnason i think all 3 races:thumb: More luck next race for all:)

[Rudy van Buren]

Quali : shitterdeshit mistakes or backmakers if i was in a good lap, p2 not to bad

Race1: could grab the lead and drive away

Race2: was into the wining position again until SC in lap 12/14 :\ anyway some strubles at the restart discussed it on msn no hard feelings got 2nd

Race3: Starting 7th got p5 in lap 1, then i hit some CoRe car in the right turn after S2 sry for that, got the run on dennis passed him dennis took the re attack and missed the corner and took me with him 6th in the end.

Now lets move on to the big drama with 30+kg at fe3R !

GR

Rudy !

[[UKR] Race King]

1st race was pretty decent i finished 4(could be 3 but cooked my tires and lost 1 place on the last lap.
2nd race was a complete disaster because of SC.Dropped down to 13th and while trying to pass two guys on the last lap/straight one of them took me out so i finished 12th.
3rd race was a mess also again because of the SC, i cooked my engine and eventually gave up.:(

See ya guys in the next round.

@jatko:Please be more careful next time mate. :thumb:

[Laser171107]

Well it was very eventful racing out there! and so close too, well done to the commentators and Joe/Darren/Tom for organising the event.

My brief recap:

Qualifying - I beat my pb and was happy with a 1:38.88, quite hard with 28 cars going hammer and tongs all in close formation, but fun. Ended up 21/28 starters.

Race 1 - Was going well until after the safety car period, tried to pull a move and lagged into teammate Jokela (Sorry mate! :shy:) and flew miles into the spectators.

Race 2 - Another okish start, then after the safety car bottleneck took evasive action to avoid someone spinning and once again was punted across the continent.

Race 3 - Much better racing this time (more than 5 laps for once! :)) But there was some push and shove at the safety car restart leaving me with soem bad damage and was forced to pit in, however I forgot to turn on the [repair damage: yes] feature... so had to pit in again after a slow crawl lap, losing yet more time. Race pace was poor all round though.

[DeadWolfBones]

As long as everybody reads understands and adheres to the rules then there isn't a problem, no :)

But yeah, do they? :shrug:

Well, for instance, there's no rule concerning what Rudy did on the restart in race 2. Which is a huge omission.

[DeadWolfBones]

Race3: Starting 7th got p5 in lap 1, then i hit some CoRe car in the right turn after S2 sry for that, got the run on dennis passed him dennis took the re attack and missed the corner and took me with him 6th in the end.

That was me. Dangerous place to pass, but you had position. No hard feelings.

[boothy]

Well, for instance, there's no rule concerning what Rudy did on the restart in race 2. Which is a huge omission.

Not really, everyone here should know what to do - just because its not real doesn't mean everyone should chuck their common sense out the window:

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8687/fia.html

40.13 ....At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.

I think most of stuff is common sense, and regards SC rules, it surely can't be too hard just to exercise caution and not go from one side of the track to the other.

[Rudy van Buren]

Well, for instance, there's no rule concerning what Rudy did on the restart in race 2. Which is a huge omission.
Not really, everyone here should know what to do - just because its not real doesn't mean everyone should chuck their common sense out the window



I readed the rules and didnt spot that it wasnt aloud, i looked back the replay and i didnt think of the effect it would have to the back of the field since i was only looking to nolan, and if i would have thought of the effect it would have like it did now i would not have done it :(

im sry and if i might be in p1 again with a SC restart i wont do it again :shrug:


So here i wanto apologice to everybody for me ruiening your start or causing you to crash.

[Hypothraxer]

I readed the rules and didnt spot that it wasnt aloud, i looked back the replay and i didnt think of the effect it would have to the back of the field since i was only looking to nolan, and if i would have thought of the effect it would have like it did now i would not have done it :(


It's actually a common problem with cars driving behind each other. If the first driver lifts off the foot and the distance between each car is too small for the speed then the cars at the end will have to brake to a standstill. It's also the most common reason for traffic jams :)

I guess the best thing to avoid this is to have people not bunch up so much during the safety car period.

[Jazzka]

Have to admit i didn't enjoy the races at all.
could see there was nice close racing 1st trough 15th places but after that it got really messy.
Would be nice if people actually get some practice on tracks or attleast reads rules about overtaking.
Driving behind safetycar shouldnt be so hard?
SC puts the pack together not racers.
Lastly this wasnt the easiest track out there for race so actually all did pretty good job :thumb:
And Tobba...Np it happends:scratchch

[Arni Arnason]

What a bad race for me, 1.st race i got off quite well and worked my way up to like 8th. place but got hit by a spinning car and that was it , i dropped down the field with heavily damaged car and never got back speed.

There were a lot of crashes, every race i got knocked out, even after safety car i got crashed and damaged car that ruined my 2.nd race.

I think there are a lessons to be learned, and we all need to pay more respect to each other.

[Mp3 Astra]

My thoughts on what I saw: People need to be much more patient behind the safety car. What Rudy did was devious, but not uncommon in real-life racing. For this reason, everybody needs to have some foresight and not try and win before the green flag has come out. Even though you're going slowly, you need to concentrate and leave at least a couple of car lengths between you and the car ahead; something that most drivers weren't doing during the SC periods.

Oh and don't do a J@tko and bin it while tyre warming... :really:

But other than that, yesterday I saw some classic touring car racing. If a few of you clean up your acts, you'll have an excellent SimRacing equivalent to the BTCC or WTCC.

[CSF]

I thought it rather amazing one of the confirmed entrants was on the server before the race begging for a set-up. What a waste of a spot in the main event. I thought those that had a confirmed slot might have taken this a little more seriously, and wanted to do everything they could to retain a slot in the series. I was clearly wrong. :shrug:

Anyway, complete waste of time the shoot out was for me, making a really daft error in the chicane when on a lap that was just as good as Travy D'Souza's. :( Another point, during the shoot out some cars were trundling out of the pitlane, and going very slowly into the heart of T1. That's a little unfair don't you think? I always made sure that I slowed to make sure cars on the straight had a clear and easy run into T1, as it should be... I expected to get that back from all fellow drivers, but clearly not again... :tilt:

Edit: Oh and I thought it funny seeing my team-mate Jason Lovett screw up so badly he was slower than me.:tilt:

Any way, was good fun to watch, and I will be doubling my efforts to qualify for Round 2. :thumb:

[Gaulish]

I have to admit i enyoj in race..it was very nice..i have some problems.. second race didnt show green light on screen..and i lose 4-5 place...but this is race :)..and in 3 race..i get push in last lap..and lose 4 place again..but this is life..not angry..its not in win.. all is in racing..and overtaking..adrenalin..and fun...so i know he didnt push me on purpose....he can be more carelase..but..its a game and race..and was nice fight...and i hope it will be again in next round...:)))..thanks ICON for organise nice race..and hapy to drive with u all guys..and gratz to winner..:)..

P.S. sorry for bad english..:)

[Gil07]

I thought it rather amazing one of the confirmed entrants was on the server before the race begging for a set-up. What a waste of a spot in the main event. I thought those that had a confirmed slot might have taken this a little more seriously, and wanted to do everything they could to retain a slot in the series. I was clearly wrong. :shrug:

Indeed... And adding to that, there were only 28 people racing in the server, instead of the supposed 30. Why where the next best in the shootout not called up to race? I would have thought everyone wanted a full grid :shrug:

nother point, during the shoot out some cars were trundling out of the pitlane, and going very slowly into the heart of T1. That's a little unfair don't you think? I always made sure that I slowed to make sure cars on the straight had a clear and easy run into T1, as it should be... I expected to get that back from all fellow drivers, but clearly not again... :tilt:

The same happened to me, on one of my shootout laps... Somebody going very slowly in the second apex of T1... Ruined my lap :(

Other than that, the broadcast was great to watch, nicely done all... Although maybe a little less crashes next round :razz:

[hyntty]

Stop complaining about people crashing. That's what you get from having 23 cars inside 1 second in qualifying. Unfortunately.

[J@tko]

Jack, how did you beach an FXR? :/

And LOL at me crashing under SC :D At least it was behind the crest so you couldn't really see me :tilt:

And you didn't show me wrecking Timo in Race 2, which was nice of you :razz:

[Chriskart]

(...) and weaving to warm your cars tyres, when there is a car 5metres infront of you. Very basic things, that all drivers should be aware of.


What about keeping slightly more distance to the car infront of you? Heheh, then you could make use of your own common sense as well! It's really not that hard.

Few weird manouvres and tags here and there too, intense racing at least : p

Anyway, the whole event looked great on the stream! Really professionally and well done, lots of leagues has something to learn from you guys! :)

[mkinnov8]

I wasnt there, but watched most of the evening's racing via the broadcast (which was presented well). However, I couldnt understand the restart performance from Rudy.

Firstly, why was you riding the brake? Why in a straight line? I understand bunching cars up, and doing so to gain an advantage when you choose to break from the pack, but there was no reason to do it 'to the line'.. It's not your responsibility to allow those at the back to catch up. You must control the field behind the safety car and not pass it before the start/finish line..

Which could have been done much easier by slowing at the top of the hill, letting the safety car get to the, or near to the pit lane, then choosing the moment to break, giving you a run from the final corner to make some space, in a more sportsmanlike way before turn one.

The eventual overtake for the lead was harsh, but no less deserved after the restart.

Sorry Rudy, I think you lost your cool, and with it, the race victory. Congrats to all, looks like an entertaining season for the spectators! :)

[J@tko]

Oh and I think Boothy did a good job too. Even if he is Scottish :tilt:

Hope to hear from you in the coming rounds :)

[DeadWolfBones]

yeah, Boothy was a good addition. Maybe we can get him in the MoE commentary box. :)

[CSF]

yeah, Boothy was a good addition. Maybe we can get him in the MoE commentary box. :)

Noooooooooooooo! The Boothy head takes another bloating. :(

[Mp3 Astra]

Noooooooooooooo! The Boothy head takes another bloating. :(

I'm just waiting for that smiley to pop up on MSN...

[boothy]

<---! :smileypul

Thanks, it was a interesting set of races, and a lot different commentating than spectating or racing, more difficult than it sounds, especially with Deko using me as a pundit meaning a lot of thinking on your feet and trying to talk about incidents with no replay and at a different angle (race 2 restart especially, I was using shift + u at the first corner so it didn't look dodgy until I watched the replay), so still can be improved if I do it again.

But it was good to try it just for an experience, probably have to learn more about MOE before I attempt anything like that... :nod:

As for driver behaviour, one thing I found mind-boggling and which MUST be improved before Fern Bay is conduct under an LFS yellow flag. Race 1 was just insane - NOBODY behind the 3 that crashed on lap 1 lifted off the throttle when the yellow flag was displayed on screen! :really: I cannot understand how if you see a car flying into the air, a car sideways in front of you or one just inches to the side of where you are aiming, you keep going as if nothing is happening around you. It's not real life racing but ignoring yellow flags - especially in a crowded section of the track - still usually results in futher crashes as seen in race 1.

And the racing was excellent, brilliant move by Nolan on Rudy - this ain't single seaters folks :thumb: - plus the reverse grid added to the spectacle as it tested the faster guys ability to not only be fast but overtake ;)

[CSF]

<---! :smileypul




You sad and pathetic human being. :razz:

[Dennis93]

According to the stats, it says that i was using Throttle help :/ i'm 100% sure i didn't, but i still find it very strange that its only me and Jokola from icon who uses it.

i dont even know that u could have throttle help anymore. lol.

[Gil07]

Throttle flag shows up always when you don't use autoclutch, for some reason... Maybe that's why?

[Dennis93]

Throttle flag shows up always when you don't use autoclutch, for some reason... Maybe that's why?

Riiiiiight, ok. i remember stalling a few times out of the pits, ok :)

Thank you :)

[traxxion]

Firstly, why was you riding the brake?
My guess would be to keep the turbo pressure up? :)
The eventual overtake for the lead was harsh, but no less deserved after the restart.I'm definitely not saying I'm a fan of Rudy's behaviour at the restart, but encouraging an overtake like that is not right either, in my opinion.

Other than that I think the races were very entertaining to watch. Congratulations to those involved in the organisation! And congrats to Nolan for the overall win in this round!

[Dennis93]

My guess would be to keep the turbo pressure up? :)
I'm definitely not saying I'm a fan of Rudy's behaviour at the restart, but encouraging an overtake like that is not right either, in my opinion.

Other than that I think the races were very entertaining to watch. Congratulations to those involved in the organisation! And congrats to Nolan for the overall win in this round!


True at rudy's restart. im gonna keep it there, cos it did profit me at t1 :D
@ building the pressure up, i did the exact same thing on my restart while i was in p1, without any consequences for the rear end of the pack, as i saw it, in the replay and the stream.

Me and rudy already spoke about the 'incident' we had, and i think we agreed that majority of the incident, was my fault, but other than that, it was a racing incident.

Good race everybody, i enjoyed every bit of it, and GG to CoRe for being up there with 2 drivers all the time :)

[traxxion]

@ building the pressure up, i did the exact same thing on my restart while i was in p1, without any consequences for the rear end of the pack, as i saw it, in the replay and the stream.I wasn't defending his behavior, I was merely answering Stoney's question why he was riding with the brake on. :)

[Dennis93]

I wasn't defending his behavior, I was merely answering Stoney's question why he was riding with the brake on. :)

i was backing you up on that one :)

[traxxion]

i was backing you up on that one :)Ouch, you may consider me stupid. :razz:

[mkinnov8]

My guess would be to keep the turbo pressure up? :)

I wasn't defending his behavior, I was merely answering Stoney's question why he was riding with the brake on. :)

Understood, but he applied the brake again right by the start/finish line.. The car behind couldnt react in time, as there was contact there, right before Rudy darts off.

If the cars would have been side by side at that point, and Rudy applied the brakes, the following car would have passed before the start/finish and been awarded a penalty for overtaking.

Anyway, just my opinion, I thought it was an aweful way of restarting a race.

As for support of the overtake, while I dont usually support eye for eye racing, Rudy should probably have expected such a move after pushing so much with the botched restart. It was only a matter of time before cooler head's overtook.

[Pantera70]

We will be releasing a guideline on expected driving standards under SC. Although these won't be set rules for Fern Bay, we will be monitoring things over the 3 races and hope we can see better driving should we need to deploy the SC :really:. After Fern Bay we'll look to put something firmly into the league rules. Just want to make sure the guidelines have the desired effect....

The one thing I would stress is that common sense needs to be applied on SC restarts, we can all easily blame the guy in front, but please consider that under ANY race condition it is your responsibility to ensure you do not hit the driver you are following. When I speak about the guy in front, I'm not speaking specifically about Rudy (there is a protest in place with regards to the second restart), I mean the whole field.

I was also supprised to see people going of track in an attempt to warm their tyres. By all means keep your tyres warm, but do we really need to throw the car around so much for an extra couple of degrees.

As for the bumping and pushing... I'm not going to say the admin team will let dangerous or wreckless driving go without a penalty, infact we will be hard on people that drive stupid. But with regards to LIGHT bumping and pushing "Welcome to Touring Cars".....:D

[Dennis93]

About the SC car, can we make it go at a consistant pace? its very uncosistant, out of corners sometimes 120-130, and some times 80-90?

[Rudy van Buren]

i see al cinded of complains about the crash i made in the opinion of most of you,

but may i point that in race 3 dennis was doing a steady pace with the restart and even then there was a big pill up in the back of the field.

This doesnt clean my start at all but does point that the guys in the back should also be a little more alert that the speed wont be going straight away if the enter the straight like in westhill.

[boothy]

I think one of the problems was that Rudy may have been either waiting for the green flag or the start/finish line before really putting the foot down, however this does not excuse the slowing down to 46mph after accelerating to over 60mph out of the final turn.

It might be an idea to follow the normal FIA/non-USA restart rules, where so long as the Safety Car is clear of the road ahead then it is up to the leader when to go, and they can go at any time - waiting on the green flag is not necessary so it means the leader can get on the power out of the final turn rather than wait until the green flag comes out. Of course, no overtaking until the line.

I mentioned it in the commentary because I saw it on the Safety Car livery - it said "Limiters on" or something - so wouldn't it be better if that was done next time? :)

[DeadWolfBones]

When we went through this issue with the IGTC restarts (since that league also uses the SC periods), we came up with the following policy:


1) Races are re/started behind a safety car (hereafter SC), driven at roughly 100kph (62mph), in single file. All drivers must leave a comfortable gap to the car ahead during the re/start lap, and must drive respectfully and with control.
1.1) In the event that the field is unevenly spaced as it approaches the green flag, the marshals may instruct drivers to close up to or back off from the car ahead, or in extreme cases may decide to wave off the re/start. In this case the field will complete another lap behind the SC before taking the green

2) When the SC enters the final sector, it will quickly accelerate away from the field and enter the pit lane. At this point the lead car should begin to gradually accelerate. The lead car should not brake (except in the case of natural braking points) once it has begun to accelerate. Once the lead car has entered the designated green flag zone, the green flag may be displayed.
2.1) Once the green flag has been displayed, drivers are free to overtake
2.2) Drivers judged to have jumped the start, to have lagged back and subsequently gained a significant speed advantage on a restart, or to have begun an overtaking maneuver before the green flag is shown will be punished with a DT penalty, or a C1 penalty if protested post-race.

Once we arrived at that solution, it worked pretty well. Of course, we had eight races to get there, too. :shrug:

[Joe_Keaveney]

Just my two cents.

As Darren says, the guidlines we will be releasing shortly will clarify what we expect of drivers on the restart.

Rudy accepts that the restart on lap 14 of Race 2 is not the way to behave in a restart, and I welcome his honesty.

What I would say to everyone is to race within the spirit of the rules, not just the letter. If there is unsporting conduct on the track in future iTCC races, we will take a dim view of it.

Cheers

Joe

[Thunderhead]

Just my two cents.

As Darren says, the guidlines we will be releasing shortly will clarify what we expect of drivers on the restart.

Rudy accepts that the restart on lap 14 of Race 2 is not the way to behave in a restart, and I welcome his honesty.

What I would say to everyone is to race within the spirit of the rules, not just the letter. If there is unsporting conduct on the track in future iTCC races, we will take a dim view of it.

Cheers

Joe


How about if we had a SC Practice couple days before the next race?

Just an idea.

[Dennis93]

How about if we had a SC Practice couple days before the next race?

Just an idea.

it isnt hard to go on the limiter around the cirquit now, is it? :shrug:

[Thunderhead]

it isnt hard to go on the limiter around the cirquit now, is it? :shrug:


No. But hey, the best was to get the procedure right is to practice it:shrug:

[dekojester]

SC periods are a mess simply because the repercussions aren't there like they are in real life. In LFS, you bin it under SC, and generally at worst, you limp to the pits and get a "fresh" car or at best, can carry on as if nothing happened. In rare cases, you get flipped and end up DNFing. In real life, it can mean a premature end to your race, a cost to you or the team, and possible revocation of your license.

The big issue as I've seen it is the racers still thinking that an SC period is still the race, and driving as such, either full on throttle or full off. The most massive problems under SC are when drivers do the accelerate forward and mash the brake tyre warming. That is, from my experience, the worst cause of accordian effects under SC. Weaving tends not to mess the field up as much, as long as people keep their speeds in check and know how to control the car and react to it. That's the big problem, as I see it. Drivers not completely paying attention to their surroundings, and worrying more about how much heat is in their tyres or whatnot.

The key is to be gentle under SC. If you get hit from behind, assuming you didn't do any untowards actions like brake-checking, it would tend to be the following cars fault. Do everything you can to not hit the car ahead, and if everyone follows that, there should be a decent reduction in incidents.

And yeah, some of that tyre warming weaving was just...wow. I don't see how some of you kept it on track during it.

d

[J@tko]

And yeah, some of that tyre warming weaving was just...wow. I don't see how some of you kept it on track during it.
I didn't :D

[hyntty]

I didn't see any bumping untill the s/f straight. So how bout that when on the s/f staright the leader should keep one speed and start accelerating at any moment he wishes. Then there would be no more stopping after the acceleration.


And yeah, some of that tyre warming weaving was just...wow. I don't see how some of you kept it on track during it.


Well drifting an FXR is intersting.... you can get insane lock but it won't look very controlled nor stable.

[snoring_snoopy]

Hi there!

The race report for round 1 is now published. Sorry for the delay, but i had the flu, and other things to do.
Thanks for joe for editing the gramar and words of the report :thumb:

You can fand it here:
http://www.itcc.iconracing.co.uk/report_s1r1.htm

Enjoy it and have fun.

Kind regards