noobTV

[Frankmd]

What is noobTV?
noobTV is a tool that allows you to control the camera in LFS from outside the game. It also adds the possibility to use and define custom camera positions, which will have more features than the standard camera's in LFS. It is written in Java, so you will need the Jave runtimes you also need to display some content on websites. The program will look like a generic Windows program, with some buttons (at least one for each player) and a few lines that display the current status of LFS and the tool.
The main reason for this tool is that I think the regular LFS camera's don't show a good overview of the cars on track. Also the number of camera's is in my opinion too high, meaning that the camera is constantly switching, especially on tracks like South City.

How can I use it?
The program is intented to be connected to a local LFS game, with LFS in windowed mode or with LFS fullscreen and the tool on a secondary display (secondary monitor, like a tv). It should also be possible to run the tool on a different pc (such as a laptop) as long as that pc is connected to the LFS pc via LAN (since the network load might be heavy and loss of packets will make the image less fluently).

When will I be able to download it?
Look further in this thread :)

I dont understand what it does :scratchch
Because images say more then a thousand words, here is a little video clip for you. I told the tool to focus the camera on the yellow/white car (someone from the Z30 team) while it is driving around Blackwood. All the camera movement/placement is controlled by the program, I didnt pause LFS to move the camera or something :) You see that the camera positions are different from the ones originally in LFS.
Click here (http://nic.mm2c.com/files/TVdirectorPreview.wmv) to download the movie.

What are the current features?
Check out the readme :)

I will use this thread to keep you informed on the tool untill I release it (then I will post some thread in the LFS Add Ons subforum).

Latest version
v0.8 (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=115939#post115939)

[inCogNito]

wow, that looks really promising, especially for all lfs broadcasters and video makers.

a suggestion for the cameras, if it's not in already:
- it should be possible to have camera presets that you can import and export, so you can exchange your camera settings with other people.

[Frankmd]

Currently it works with one file called cameras.txt which houses all the cameras (so it's not hardcoded into the program). I will most likely change that to a system where you have a file for each track (or each area of tracks), so you can manage the camera settings yourself.

[Pablo.CZ]

Great news! Im looking for program like this for ages :)
Suggestion: files for track cameras AND files for car cameras - i prefer real cameras, id like define cameras on car body or in car interior, on each car independently but collective for all tracks
GL in development
sorry for my english

[Don]

sounds cool, but i still dont 100% understand how it works, but here are things i`d like to see in it (and i have no idea how much are these possible to do):
- possibility to "tilt" the camera (ex. here is the camera tilted: http://www.liveforspeed.cz/upload/HITS_image3.jpg)

- zoom in/out where i could control how much it zooms (lower than 12° that is currently available would be nice) and also the speed of zoom (currently there are 3 speeds, but thats not enough...the fastest speed isnt fast enough and the slowest speed isnt slow enough)

- height of camera - currently you can go only upto ~5m or when you press TAB you can go higher, but you cant see into distance...

[franky500]

unlikely that this is possible but the ability to move the camera manally (like you do in Shift + U) would be nice.. probabvly not practical though..

Other than that i cant think of anything just yet. The current ideas see, t be heading iin the right direction though.

Very Nice looking idea :D

[Victor]

id like define cameras on car body or in car interior, on each car independently but collective for all tracks
GL in development
sorry for my english

i don't think it's possible to mount a camera onto any part of a car, because the movements of the car cannot be followed exactly by the camera. I tried this once via insim, but failed, because the camera is always 'running after the facts' in other words, a chase cam and not a 'mounted onto moving object' cam.
There are limits to the placements of camera's via insim.

[Vendetta]

Looks very very promising! it could help when making movies :)

[Messiah]

- possibility to "tilt" the camera (ex. here is the camera tilted: http://www.liveforspeed.cz/upload/HITS_image3.jpg)

- zoom in/out where i could control how much it zooms (lower than 12° that is currently available would be nice) and also the speed of zoom (currently there are 3 speeds, but thats not enough...the fastest speed isnt fast enough and the slowest speed isnt slow enough)

- height of camera - currently you can go only upto ~5m or when you press TAB you can go higher, but you cant see into distance...

I just fired up the LFS.Live 0.0.2 version where's the working camera position utility and can possibly say something about what camera positions is possible. No warranties though :P

You can rotate, pitch and roll your cockpit and custom view camera (Frankmd: Set the 'view override' flag in CamPosPacket IS_CPP for making the "roll" value work.). You can go beyond the limited like 5m height in Shift+U mode but you cannot "roll" (/tilt) the camera and no other camera can be rolled atm. You cannot change the FOV to below 12° or abover 120°.

i don't think it's possible to mount a camera onto any part of a car, because the movements of the car cannot be followed exactly by the camera. I tried this once via insim, but failed, because the camera is always 'running after the facts' in other words, a chase cam and not a 'mounted onto moving object' cam.

Indeed, the only way to have one (really only one) camera like "mounted" is to use the custom view. The custom view settings cannot be changed via InSim though.


/€dit: Just forgot to actually write about the program while playing around with CamPos stuff... :D

Now that's some really hard stuff to get a program really interesting stuff. For like switching to a spinning car would not be that hard, though the defined threshold of a spin will be probably so high that you won't catch the whole spin or it will constantly switch cars if it is set to low. We know you can catch that, Silkswift's LFS Marshal already did something like this IIRC.

And it should also be possible to detect some "close racing" via MCI/NLP packets, I've just implemented some kind of "live positioning" and "overtake count" in my .NET Assembly (there was the Race Tracking Discussion - Position determined by node (http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=215816) thread on RSC :D ).

For the cameras.. it will be tricky to get the cars onto screen while in Shift+U and taking turns, won't it? I don't know if you can calculate the correct heading value constantly just by knowing "I am in front of the car" and the car positions/heading from IS_MCI packets. But nice Shift+U cameras were always awesome in videos IIRC :)

But I don't know if it works out to be possible and quite amazing to set a few sequences of camera's around the tracks. Hm, guess it's some kind of art of actually using the program then.

[Pablo.CZ]

Indeed, the only way to have one (really only one) camera like "mounted" is to use the custom view. The custom view settings cannot be changed via InSim though.
There is posibility to change custom view in LFS Movie Maker, I thought it won't be such problem to implement :shrug:

[Frankmd]

You can rotate, pitch and roll your cockpit and custom view camera (Frankmd: Set the 'view override' flag in CamPosPacket IS_CPP for making the "roll" value work.). You can go beyond the limited like 5m height in Shift+U mode but you cannot "roll" (/tilt) the camera and no other camera can be rolled atm. You cannot change the FOV to below 12° or abover 120°.

Indeed, the only way to have one (really only one) camera like "mounted" is to use the custom view. The custom view settings cannot be changed via InSim though.

I havent done any tests with this yet, but I dont really understand. First you say that you can set the Roll value using a CPP packet, and then you say you cannot control the Custom view camera with InSim...?
Oh, and the FOV can be put lower then 12 and higher then 120. Everything between 0 and 180 degrees will work, except 0 and 180 themself. I think that the values serve a reason however, because some graphical glitches will occur between 0 and 12, and 120 and 180. So for a moving cam I dont think going lower then 12 is smart, but for a static cam you can easily use 2, as long as you place the camera on a 'smart' place.


For the cameras.. it will be tricky to get the cars onto screen while in Shift+U and taking turns, won't it? I don't know if you can calculate the correct heading value constantly just by knowing "I am in front of the car" and the car positions/heading from IS_MCI packets. But nice Shift+U cameras were always awesome in videos IIRC :)

At the moment the program predicts where the car will be in X milliseconds, since the camera will take some time to move fluently to that position. At the moment it only uses the heading, velocity and the current xyz values, but I think that some improvement can be found in the Angular Velocity field, and also taking the first and second derivatives of the xyz values can maybe help too.


As for the 'interesting-moment-prediction':
I think it is impossible to have a really good realtime predictor. I think you can make something that works well but not really good. However if you would store all the MCI packets in a separate file (with some sort of timestamp) while watching a replay the first time, the program is able to look into the future the second time you watch the replay. For replays a lot of people are going to watch, one person could take the noble task of running the replay the first time, and then send the 'prediction-log'-file to the other people who want to watch the replay.

[tristancliffe]

A suggestion. Would it be possible to have the cameras to be moved, zoomed, rotated in real time, BUT also export the motion to a file. That way we can share camera postions AND movements, and also make the camera move automatically.

This means for someone like me (a noob) who wants to record a particular camera movement with LFS in full-screen and no second monitor would be able to create the camera movement and then have it play automatically with the camera control software in the background.

Just a though, and poorly explained I guess.

[Frankmd]

A suggestion. Would it be possible to have the cameras to be moved, zoomed, rotated in real time, BUT also export the motion to a file. That way we can share camera postions AND movements, and also make the camera move automatically.

This means for someone like me (a noob) who wants to record a particular camera movement with LFS in full-screen and no second monitor would be able to create the camera movement and then have it play automatically with the camera control software in the background.

Just a though, and poorly explained I guess.

At the moment you have 2 sorts of cameras:

-moving : these cameras will automatically zoom, rotate and pitch according to the position of the car you are looking at relative to the camera.
-non moving : these cameras will just look in a certain direction and not move in any way.

Actually the name 'moving' is wrong, because neither of the cameras are actually translating. Translating cameras will be investigated tho (Im 90% sure it will work).

The camera positions are stored in an external file, so you can make these files available for download.

EDIT:
I think I see now what point you are missing :) The program cotrols the camera, but the userinput is the player to look at. You will see a list of buttons, all representing a player, you press one button, and the program will follow the car around the track.

[Frankmd]

For the people that have insim experience...

State flags controlling this packet
-----------------------------------
The relevant Flags that can be set are :

#define ISS_SHIFTU 8 // in SHIFT+U mode
#define ISS_SHIFTU_HIGH 16 // HIGH view
#define ISS_SHIFTU_FOLLOW 32 // following car
#define ISS_VIEW_OVERRIDE 8192 // override user view


Does this mean that changing the other flags does not influence the state of the game?

[sinbad]

I don't know about the coding or anything and don't have any suggestions, but the results look very impressive indeed! :)
Keep up the good work :up:

[Pablo.CZ]

I think tristancliffe wants to make himself particular camera movement (something like you can in shift+u mode) and store it to a file (similar like macro recording). Then assign this stored movement to a key in TVDirector and play it as many times as he wants.
am I right tristancliffe?

[SchneeFee]

will it be possible to place a camera outside the trackarea? I always wanted to see this in LFS. It makes really cool atmospehere when u see a full Grid starting from the audienve POV or from behind a fence.

(Check out CCM (Camera Control Master) for GPL to see what i mean.)

[tristancliffe]

Yes Pablo, thats about right. So I can, say, start off REALLY high, and the camera zooms into the track, and into the garage. If this movement could be repeatable (like a macro) then it could make movie makers lives a lot easier. Espcially if the default zoom/height limits are relaxed.

And you don't need to call me tristancliffe - Tristan will do :p

[Frankmd]

will it be possible to place a camera outside the trackarea? I always wanted to see this in LFS. It makes really cool atmospehere when u see a full Grid starting from the audienve POV or from behind a fence.

(Check out CCM (Camera Control Master) for GPL to see what i mean.)

Yes it will. However, there is a reason that you normally cant get in those areas, so these cameras should be placed wisely.

[Frankmd]

Yes Pablo, thats about right. So I can, say, start off REALLY high, and the camera zooms into the track, and into the garage. If this movement could be repeatable (like a macro) then it could make movie makers lives a lot easier. Espcially if the default zoom/height limits are relaxed.

And you don't need to call me tristancliffe - Tristan will do :p

That is actually a pretty good idea. I just added it to the planned-features list :) Dont count on it to be a feature in the first versions though :)

[tristancliffe]

That is actually a pretty good idea. First time for everything!

[axus]

Very very impressive! :thumb:
Don't have any suggestions really... keep it up though!

[KeMoT]

Preview movie shows some very good camera angles.
Very good stuff :thumb:

I wonder who will upload first nice LFS movie made using TVDirector on LFS MOVIES PIT :)

[Messiah]

First you say that you can set the Roll value using a CPP packet, and then you say you cannot control the Custom view camera with InSim...?
You can set roll values. "You cannot control the custom view camera" <- That was meant to be, that you cannot change the 'offset' of the camera like you do in LFS options.

Does this mean that changing the other flags does not influence the state of the game?

The other flags? What other flags? :shrug: Neither IS_CPP nor its state flags don't really influence the game, they'll just set camera views.

Oh, and the FOV can be put lower then 12 and higher then 120.
Hm.. interesting, it didn't work for me, I maybe check my cam control code then.

[NoGhost]

Great idea and good work

That vid clip looked nice.
It gives wayyyyyyyyyyyy better and real look of the race.

[Pablo.CZ]

And you don't need to call me tristancliffe - Tristan will do :p
I'm sorry Tristan, I used copy & paste without thinking :shy:

[SchneeFee]

Yes it will. However, there is a reason that you normally cant get in those areas, so these cameras should be placed wisely.

i am rather thinking about making videos, than creating permanent trackside cams. Whats the reason for this restriction?

[Frankmd]

i am rather thinking about making videos, than creating permanent trackside cams. Whats the reason for this restriction?

It happens quite often that you see all sorts of graphical glitches if you are outside the track bouds (or go higher then 2.6m).

[Pablo.CZ]

Suggestion for future versions:
camera parameter for amount of shaking when car is moving fast and close
camera parameter for amount of shaking in low FOV (big zoom)
(0 - 100 for example; 0 without this efect) :)

[Pablo.CZ]

- zoom in/out where i could control how much it zooms (lower than 12° that is currently available would be nice) and also the speed of zoom (currently there are 3 speeds, but thats not enough...the fastest speed isnt fast enough and the slowest speed isnt slow enough)
what about control zoom speed throught pedals? brake - zoom out, throttle - zoom in
you can haveany speed between 0 and defined max

[Don]

yeah, cool idea :thumb:

[Dygear]

(You knew someone one going to ask this)
Could you make this in C, C++?
Windows XP x64 is very skittish on Java.

[Frankmd]

(You knew someone one going to ask this)
Could you make this in C, C++?
Windows XP x64 is very skittish on Java.

Then the guys from microsoft shoulg get their act toghether and make sure my program runs on that platform.
I dont think I am using any fancy stuff, so if my program doesnt work, then I dont think any program except form the Hello, world! will work.

[Fetzo]

this is awesome, with some longer shots (like the ones you did in the preview movie), online broadcasts could be definately improved a lot! it's more tv-like.

it would be nice to be able to switch the camerafiles during play. so you could use a special configuration for lap 1 (especially turn 1) to focus on the whole drivers field.

after lap one you can switch to a more "zoomed in" configuration.

[the_angry_angel]

Then the guys from microsoft shoulg get their act toghether and make sure my program runs on that platform.
I dont think I am using any fancy stuff, so if my program doesnt work, then I dont think any program except form the Hello, world! will work.Surely you mean SUN. Dont forget that Microsoft isnt allowed to ship its own Java VM anymore.

[Frankmd]

I really wouldnt know about that, but since Dygear said that Windows was skittish on Java, and not the other way around, I figured it was Microsofts fault.

I stand corrected :)

[Dygear]

You install Java and it tends to look at you and laugh.

[Michael Radmer]

It would be very interesting! I like the way of the slides, because it looks much more realistic.
If you need a beta-tester, i will support with my knowledge of online-casting.

Good work, Frank ! :thumb:

[Frankmd]

Just a little update, Im having some difficulties with networkconnections in Java, so don't expect a quick release or anything.

[P_J_H]

Hi,

I'm brand new to the boards,and i'm only 12(so gimme a chance!:D ),but I am into programming(but I've only got started).

Now I know nobody is probably looking at this thread anymore but going back to what Messiah said...


Now that's some really hard stuff to get a program really interesting stuff. For like switching to a spinning car would not be that hard, though the defined threshold of a spin will be probably so high that you won't catch the whole spin or it will constantly switch cars if it is set to low. We know you can catch that, Silkswift's LFS Marshal already did something like this IIRC.


...whould it not be able to set a certain number of seconds after a spin has become outside of the threshold, say 10 secs, then stay on that camera before switching to another.

As I said before i am pretty new to programming so I am probably talking a load of crap but if it helps...I'm happy:thumb:

Keep up the good work (if you still are!).:thumbsup:

[Frankmd]

Yeh, that is a possibility, but staying with that car for 10 seconds means you might miss something else.
One thing is for sure, a program like that would need some serious testing and tweaking.

[P_J_H]

Yeh, that is a possibility, but staying with that car for 10 seconds means you might miss something else.
One thing is for sure, a program like that would need some serious testing and tweaking.

10 secs was just the first number that popped into my head, but you are right in saying it would need some serious testing and tweaking.

[Frankmd]

Here's a new preview movie. I added moving camera's along a line. Next up will be making sure the program is usable to everyone so that I can release a testversion later this week.

http://nic.mm2c.com/files/KY_NAT.wmv

[Messiah]

Impressive http://forum.rscnet.org/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif

[franky500]

Very nice indeed.

[germanpio]

It would be very interesting! I like the way of the slides, because it looks much more realistic.
If you need a beta-tester, i will support with my knowledge of online-casting.

Good work, Frank ! :thumb:

my opinion, too :thumb:

[Dygear]

Sweet!

[Fordman]

Frank,

That is some seriously impressive work. Nice One M8ty :thumb:

[P_J_H]

Very nice, well done!

[maczo]

Next up will be making sure the program is usable to everyone so that I can release a testversion later this week.

soooo... any news?

[Darkone55]

Looks very nice. But one question;

will it be possible to set the camera at places you can't come now? (for example behind the fench, that would be very nice for movies)

[ORION]

Very unlikely i'd say.
Doesn's this app just control the ingame shift+u camera?

[Frankmd]

It is possible. Altough there is a reason you cant get behind the fence in shift+u mode, and that reason is that you sometimes get graphical glitches. You can, for example, set the camera 50m above the track, but at some tracks the tarmac will dissapear, or you will see ugly parts next to the track.

As for the release, my goal is to get something working before the next masters of endurance race. If I manage to get something that is worth sharing I will put a link here.

[sdether]

Very unlikely i'd say.
Doesn's this app just control the ingame shift+u camera?

You'd think so, but no. With InSim you can put the camera anywhere, but as FrankMD you may come across visual aritfacts. Basically shift+u limits you to the boundaries used by cars, so there are lots of places you can put the camera that don't give you artifacts that you can only get to with insim. But going behind the fence may or may not work as desired. I.e. you may find out that the fence isn't textured on the back, since it wasn't intended for you to be viewing from there.

[paXton]

As for the release, my goal is to get something working before the next masters of endurance race. Now, the first great season is over. How is about your development?

[Frankmd]

The development is going OK I'd say. I changed the name to noobTV btw, I think TVdirector sounds a bit dull ;)
Before I release anything I need to work a bit on the menu part (it need some optimalization) and I will have to document the way the camera's are defined in the configuration file.

[P_J_H]

Not toooooo shure on the new name........:scratchch .........:pillepall
It should grow on me though, keep up the good work. :thumb:
_________________________________________________

:mr-t: "I Pity the fool..." ...so do I... YOU!! :D :D :D :D

[Frankmd]

Here is v0.6 for you. Use it at own risk :)

It only has cameras for Blackwood Reverse at the moment, so I suggest that you should also use the replay I attached :) I should work on all replays at BL1R, but just in case you dont have a replay of it.

Post all your bugs and suggestions please :)

[Dygear]

Works flawlessly! Nice work, now I just need to learn how to use it so I can make some kick ass movies with it!

Also, do you know of a way of getting rid of the Shift+U's heads up display? That on a movie would kinda kill it :).

[ATHome]

Works flawlessly! Nice work, now I just need to learn how to use it so I can make some kick ass movies with it!

Also, do you know of a way of getting rid of the Shift+U's heads up display? That on a movie would kinda kill it :).

Press Shift + F :)
P.S.: Did you know you could resize the smilies ?

Edit: But only while you are writing your post...

[paXton]

Also, do you know of a way of getting rid of the Shift+U's heads up display? That on a movie would kinda kill it :). use SPACE, Shift-F doesn't work in Shift-U mode

[Pablo.CZ]

Ive problem: I got only blank window with noobTV title.. but when i clicked somewhere in the window, I was able to switch cameras, but I dont know where buttons are :(
WXP SP2, JRE 1.5 06

[Frankmd]

In the JAR file there is also one other program that should run by itself.

1. start LFS, and type /insim ...
2. Export the files from the noobTV.jar file, winRAR should be able to do this.
3. Start > Run... > cmd > and browse to the folder where you find the files from the jar.
4. type 'java TVcameratool', press enter
5. you should see something as the attached image

Btw, the TVcameratool can be used to create your own camera's, and I am currently working on the documentation for that.

[paXton]

Here is v0.6 for you. Use it at own risk It looks simple and works great. very nice. :thumb:

But after some playing, I don't notice a difference between focus on one car and focus on two cars with the custom cam. Im not sure if it works here. On what should I look?

Maybe you could also implement a SPACE-keypress to cancel the shift-U settings on the screen while on customcam.

paXton

[Frankmd]

The cars should be close enough to each other. If you dont see the difference, put the replay speed to 0.5 and then right-click the name of the second car, and then rightclick the name of the first car again. Doing this you enable and disable the 2-car focus, and you _should_ see a difference.

[paXton]

jepp, now I have seen it.:)
But there might be some problems when clicking too much on the cam buttons, so that the two-cam modus sometimes doesn't work here.
I try to figure it tomorrow or so, and will report. I don't know if it has to do with the fast zooming in/out bug.

paXton

[Pablo.CZ]

OK, its running now.. :thumb: I didnt know that I must export files from .jar :shy:
Small bugs:
- if focused on two cars and then to one car only, camera is zomming in and out in cycles.. Focusing on two cars again fix this (edit: probably known issue)
- you cannot ESC from replay when noobTV in CustomExternal

Suggestion: add combobox with all defined custom cameras and button "Fixed CustomExternal" -> should stay at place and not follow any car.
Option for skip some cam in cams.txt in standard CustomExternal mode would be nice -> I can define finish line cam and use it only in the end of race by selecting it from combo.
(sorry for my english)

[Dygear]

That program that you have shown to get the point information from should be in the front end, and you should not have to dig around the jar file to find it. Other then that, awsome work!

[Frankmd]

OK, its running now.. :thumb: I didnt know that I must export files from .jar :shy:
Normally you wouldn't have to extract them, it should run fine without extracting them, but aparently there is something wrong there. Cant really tell.


Small bugs:
- if focused on two cars and then to one car only, camera is zomming in and out in cycles.. Focusing on two cars again fix this (edit: probably known issue)
I didnt know about this one yet. I do know that it zooms in and out if you pause the replay in CustomCamera mode however.


- you cannot ESC from replay when noobTV in CustomExternal

I will try to make some sort of Stop replay button in the controlpanel, but I should find a way to do this safely (if I send the /end command to lfs, it will also vote to end the race during an online game, which is quite dangerous in case the admin uses my tool and accidentaly presses that button).


Suggestion: add combobox with all defined custom cameras and button "Fixed CustomExternal" -> should stay at place and not follow any car.
Option for skip some cam in cams.txt in standard CustomExternal mode would be nice -> I can define finish line cam and use it only in the end of race by selecting it from combo.
(sorry for my english)
The way the camera's are choosen and managed is the next thing to update indeed. I would really like to have other camera's at the end of the race then mid-race as well :)

[Frankmd]

That program that you have shown to get the point information from should be in the front end, and you should not have to dig around the jar file to find it. Other then that, awsome work!

Yes, that is also on the todo list ;) But first I will have to give it a few more features :)

[Dygear]

Yes, that is also on the todo list ;) But first I will have to give it a few more features :)

Fine with me, I love the program, *pat's Frankmd on the back* nice work mate :)!

[Pablo.CZ]

The way the camera's are choosen and managed is the next thing to update indeed. I would really like to have other camera's at the end of the race then mid-race as well :)
:thumb: Great. I'm looking forward to next versions.

About zoom in and out: left click on driver1, right click on driver2, right click on driver1, left click on driver2 :)

[Frankmd]

Here is a new version that should not do the quick-zooming thing. I also fixed the bug that sometimes you could not go to a certain LFS camera immediatly (e.g. you wanted to get to TV, but the TV button did not respond, so you had to click Arcade first, and then TV to make it work).

I will work on the camera help-tool next week.

[Pablo.CZ]

What about some signs near by each name:
"=" car is close to another (distance defined in cfg)
"@" car is in spin
it can help in multiplayer races where you must react quicly

[Yaamboo]

Program looks great, although I still haven't managed to create a working cam ;) Good work in any way.

[Frankmd]

Here is v0.7

I adjusted it to the new InSim packets and changed the way the cameras are stored. Included is a tutorial on how to make your own custom cameras, and a little tool that will help you with that. This tool also allowes you to get higher than 2.6 meter.

Unfortunately I found out that I was wrong about putting the camera besides the track. Even using the CPP packets you cannot set the camera somewhere in a grandstand. I do hope that this will become possible one day, because with some care we could make pretty spectacular camerapositions.


The coming time I will add something that will tell you when a car crashes, or when two cars are overtaking. I cant promise that it will be done soon as I am busy enough with other stuff.

Please report all bugs in the program and in the turotial and dont be ashamed to ask about something, because I know the readme isnt great.

[GeForz]

Version 0.7 doesn't work at all here :(

I watched replay of EPS race at monday. When I lanuch version 0.6 it launches and shows all names. Version 0.8 just shows "Player 0" to "Player 7"

When I watch "live" online races it also shows "Player "(0-7)

btw: Can you show driver name instead of lfsworld nick? Or both? Or as an option ;D

[GianniC]

Works for LFS Patch T4 ?

[Frankmd]

It should work with patch T4, but I am not so sure anymore after the post above.

The only time I got the problem with Player0 etc is when I start the tool after the replay has been started. Maybe I should have put that in the readme. For the next update I will try to fix this.

[Frankmd]

People who dont have problems running version 0.7, please post, so I know what kind of problem it is.

[GeForz]

The only time I got the problem with Player0 etc is when I start the tool after the replay has been started. Maybe I should have put that in the readme. For the next update I will try to fix this.

Ok, that's right - 0.7 works fine when connecting before starting replay :)

[Frankmd]

Here is v0.8.

Changes and fixes (v0.8)
* Not all players were listed.
* Should work better if noobTV is started while a replay is running.
* Primitive yellow-flag detection.
* Option for username/playername display.

Please keep 'em coming, those suggestions and bugreports :)

[Fetzo]

hi frank,
thanks for the new version.

i have made a cam-file for kyoto gp long and i hope that it will be used at the 24h race.

it's not very spectacular, i tried to simulate the way tv-stations broadcast such events. long relaxed shots with a good overview(when using the 2-car method, great feature). i think at some point of a 24h race you don't need that hectic shots victor used :).
victor has 31 cameras for this track, i use 17. i think thats the main point of this file.

unfortunately many great positions for cameras are not possible because of the grey areas squares lfs produces when shooting from "weird" positions. but i think thats a lfs problem.


improvement suggestion:
the zoom feature works very nicely, but i would like to have a little more control over the fov. some kind of multiplier i can set or some limits to force the camera not zoom that much. i need zooming for these long camera shots, but now the cameras zoom a little to much for my needs.

[GeForz]

suggestion:
polygonal areas instead of rectangular and line-cameras with more points. (e.g. for covering the kyoto pit areas with only one line cam)

[Frankmd]

Polygonal areas: yes.
More points on a line: not sure.
FOV: yes, altough Im not exactly sure what would be the best way.

Thank you for making a camera set :) I was thinking of creating a small webpage with files, so that the camera definitions do get scattered around.

[Highsider9]

WOW! This is a great Tool, Nice Work. :up:

Only Suggestion is a Page where you can upload you own Camerasets and rate them, this would make it much easier to get startet with this Programm.

[germanpio]

Works almost great. Is it normal that its stuttering with a field of 18 people?

normal: 30 fps
noobtv: 10fps :shrug:

[Frankmd]

noobTV on itself should not be very heavy on the system. I havent noticed any fps drops on my own system. If it happens in Custom Camera mode, it could be possible that the fps drop is caused by having all the cars in one view, because most Custom Cameras are far away and thus draw a lot of the track and maybe all cars during the start.
30fps is a bit on the low side too, so I guess it quickly drops to an even lower value if some other process runs. On my own pc, noobTV never gets above 3% cpu time, and only for a very short time (after you press a button for example) but otherwise uses less then 0.5%

[germanpio]

ahh ok, just noticed it, my Mistake :)

anyway, I tried to make my own Cameras for BL. I wanted to creat a cam which shows the car from the end of a lap till the beginning of a new one. The nodes were (for example) 450 (start) and 8 (end). A bit like closing the circle. But on that area LfS changed to the custom view and after that area again to my own cameras. Is it a bug or doesn't it work because of LfS code?

edit: Just found something:
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/1359/noobtv6jt.jpg
I thought the camera would be too high, but:
I stopped the replay here by pressing "pause". On pressing pause the track was shown normally and it was shown correctly during the whole replay.

[Frankmd]

Just a little notification. At the moment I am pretty busy and unable to find time to work on noobTV. I am also thinking about porting it to C#, to make some additional features possible. Don't expect an update any time soon, at least not before July.

[Fischfix]

hey guys this looks great!
by the way, it didn*t work with double click, so i had to extract it. the only annoying thing was, the search for the right class to start. so for everyone:


java TVmain (thats the one you have to start for the application)
java TVcameratool (thats the one you have to start for the camerapositon helping tool)

[MataGyula]

@ Frankmd
First of all, thank You for this great lil' tool ! After figuring out how it works, i started to build a camera set for BL2 :)
Anywayz, I would like to see a few improvements. Basically, i would love to see some kind of interface in LFS (dunno if it is possible :)), where actually by using the shift+U view you could create your cameras - You wander around the track, find a good spot, set up the view You want, and You push a button, than the program asks You to set the Start/Stop nodes on the track,and when You are done, it simply saves what You have done to a txt file. It could also track the movemet of the camera, so you could set exactly the way you want the camera to move ( this could be done by pushing a button to start "recording" the movement of the camera, and then to stop the "recording" ). These suggestions would make the process of setting up the cameras a lot shorter, and what is more important, easier :P
Btw guys, yeah You there, what about making a contest of creating the best camera set for a track ? The winner would have honor, glory , and the good feeling, that he/she has made a service to the community :D
Now really, lets post here some of the sets You made, please !
I hope everything was clear, and understandable :p , and I can't wait to see a new version of this tool !
Greets

Gyuszi[WRC]

[Fischfix]

if anyone has good cameras for the Oval, let me know!!! :thumb:

[Frankmd]

@ Frankmd
First of all, thank You for this great lil' tool ! After figuring out how it works, i started to build a camera set for BL2 :)
Anywayz, I would like to see a few improvements. Basically, i would love to see some kind of interface in LFS (dunno if it is possible :)), where actually by using the shift+U view you could create your cameras - You wander around the track, find a good spot, set up the view You want, and You push a button, than the program asks You to set the Start/Stop nodes on the track,and when You are done, it simply saves what You have done to a txt file. It could also track the movemet of the camera, so you could set exactly the way you want the camera to move ( this could be done by pushing a button to start "recording" the movement of the camera, and then to stop the "recording" ). These suggestions would make the process of setting up the cameras a lot shorter, and what is more important, easier :P
Btw guys, yeah You there, what about making a contest of creating the best camera set for a track ? The winner would have honor, glory , and the good feeling, that he/she has made a service to the community :D
Now really, lets post here some of the sets You made, please !
I hope everything was clear, and understandable :p , and I can't wait to see a new version of this tool !
Greets

Gyuszi[WRC]

I think having some control panel in the LFS window would be very nice, because at the moment I dont think a lot of people are actually using this program. However, I highly doubt that I will find the time to port the program to C# or C++ anytime soon, so basically that would be the end of the program.

[[RCG]Boosted]

doh, tried to dl the movie and i it says access to the server is not possible :shrug:
(yea i found this just today! :D)

[MataGyula]

@Boosted
Did You try to dowlnoad the zip file from here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=115939#post115939) ?

[[RCG]Boosted]

hehe, thats the actual program wanted to take a look at the movie first to actually understand it correctly :D

[MataGyula]

oops, sorry than :) Well, the program enables you to place your own cameras around a track, very useful for making lfs movies , or just watching replays.

[[RCG]Boosted]

i just tried it, but whenever i wanna set a custom can it says follower could not find position :shrug:
well np im not planning to do an movie soon :p

[GrandlHuber]

Hi!

I have some problems with noobTV! Nearly everytime I start LFS, type /insim 65000 and then doublclick on noobTV.jar I get graphic-errors!

I don´t know what i have to do. Once it helps to swich between the Screen wides (Shift+F9-F12 in LFS), but only one time it works!

If i got this Graphic mismatch, only a reboot can help!

Do u know what i can do to run this tool?


PS: I thought there was a treat, especially for cams made with that NoobTVCamera Tool, but i cant find!

Cpu:3200XP GPU:MSI6800Ultra

[Fischfix]

oh, you've just entered the matrix... if someone asks you, follow the white rabbit...

[GrandlHuber]

First I thought u made a joke, but then there was a friendly voice and the rabbit lead me to java-update. :thumb:


Has someone a cam-collection or better where can I download the Files?

I experienced a hole day long, but i think the cameratool does not work well every time. For example i got a negatve Z-Axis in Westhill in the fast corners. After restartin the cameratool i got a 80000 Z-Axis at the same point and it works well.

[Dygear]

That screen shot reminds me of my old chinatech (brand name should of told me to stay the hell away) 5200. That thing over heated all of the time, and it looked much like that.

[GrandlHuber]

Don´t know what i have done:

I proofed my camsettings in a replay with noob tv, changed the positions in the Westhill.txt and saved it, pushed the exit button in noobTV and start the replay and noobTV again. But noobTV is not there, no menue. Only the TVcameratool works as well:(

I rebooted my baby twice, but noobTV stays hidden!!!

[GrandlHuber]

Think i have located the problem:

I copied my Westhill settings from the empty folder to a new Westhill-folder, started noobTV and it works. Then i choosed the new Westhillfolder and it worked fine till racers drive to 1 of the cams in the infield.
I had a syntax-error in my file and thats why noobTV does not start - i thought.
Closed noobTV after edding the westhill.txt and wanna start -I copied the file in another folder - but it wont work again.

Then i had an idea:
I extracted the noobTV again in another folder copied my westhill.txt in that cam folder and - now it works. But my old noobTV in my LFS-Tool-Folder wont work anymore.

I hope i could help some others with the same probs

PS.: WHERE CAN I GET SOME CAM-FILES?

[Frankmd]

I am really sorry for those bugs, I would love to fix them, but Im afraid I dont have time to do that.

About the camera presets, I hope to be able to make a set for the Masters of Endurance stream of the next race at Westhill.

[GrandlHuber]

U don´t have to be sorry for this bugs.
We have to thank u for this tool, and I only want to help others with the same problems.

Its maybe a incitation for u, to know others still fiddle about ur noobTV since its release in April and then maybe u´ll find the time faster to enhance ur tool.


But:

WHERE CAN I GET CAM-FILES?

Does nobody publish his selfmade camfiles?

My first 3 Bug-free cams for WesthillRev are added in the txt-file. I have made some more but they don´t look fine for me and im still tryin to make some experince with that camtool.

[A.Fedorov]

Hello. I'm run LFS and multiplayer replay. After run noobTV.jar i see players but not see affect from blackwood.txt which lie in folder ../cams/blackwood/ See standart camera only :(

What i doing wrong???

ps sorry for english :)

[GrandlHuber]

1. Ensure there is no admin-password set in ur noobTV config.txt and ur LFS Multipayer-Server settings
2. run live for speed
3. type "insim 65000" in ur chatterbox (shit+t). U can find the port in ur noobTV config.txt
4. run the multiplayer-replay in window mode in lfs
5. start noobTV
6. choose a racer in NoobTV menue and press "costum"-cam-button with the left and another cam with the right-mouse button. If u don´t select the TV-Cam (right Button) u can c which cam is made with noobTV

If it does not work well, then copy my WesthillR.txt in the empty-folder in NoobTV/Cam and try it with a WesthillRev Replay. But dont forget to chooce the empty folder in NoobTV-Menue.

Ps: ur English is better than mine

[GeForz]

GrandlHuber shiFt not shit ;)

[GrandlHuber]

Lol:d

[GrandlHuber]

I don´t know why this cam not works:

startCam
name=DangerCorner
track=WE1R
type=line
startPointX=-10511838
startPointY=-50492542
startPointZ=1675110
endPointX=-10511838
endPointY=-50492542
endPointZ=1069162
linePositioning=nodeProportional
heading=free
pitch=free
roll=free
fov=free
areaDef=node
startNode=403
stopNode=466
stopCam


The position of this cam should be behind the 100m sign on the exit of the dangerous corner (without kerbs outside). But i can do what i want. A Cam in tis positon wont work for me.

Has anyone an idea?

[magicius]

guys i have a question. i start a replay,noobstv and fraps to record that in avi,but when i change from lfs to noobs tv recording stops. is there another way to record that? thanks in advance

[Frankmd]

I normally use noobTV on my laptop and connect it through LAN to my desktop. That way it should work, but other than that I dont think it will.

[Frankmd]

Here is version 0.9. Some new features etc. Version 1.0 will be the same as 0.9, but then bugfixed and including all the cameras I've made and the ones that were found in this topic (fetzo: I have to edit your camera's to make them work properly in v0.9), since I am sure there are some minor bugs in it. Please report them here :)

[GeForz]

hey frank nice to hear you are still working on it.

but what is new in 0.9? :)

[Frankmd]

New features:


Rotating custom camera (will automatically look at the secondary player).
Probability of camera's. This way you can define multiple camera's for one area and the tool will choose a certain camera, where camera's with a high probability setting are more likely to be chosen. This way it will be less repetitive and it can also be used to give trackside sponsors or objects (public in the grandstands) some airtime during streams (point a camera at some sponsor board and give it a low probability).
The cameratool can now copy the data of the custom camera to the clipboard, so now you dont have to write down the coordinates anymore (saves time and risk of typos/writeos).
Known issues that will be fixed in version 1.0:

Random soft/hard lockups in the control panel.
The cameradefinition files should be perfect, otherwise noobTV wont load (for example, you can't enter a floating number for the FOV, although it should be possible). Same fore config.
The program doesnt tell you when there is a connectionproblem or has a reconnect button.
Trackside cameras show some weird behaviour when it is trying to focus on two cars, especially the FOV calculation is a bit weird.
Also, noobStarter is kind-of built into noobTV (since the noobTV functions come in very handy when you need a good overview of the field), so I'm probably going to combine them, so some kind of menu has to be added as well, since it looks a bit weird at the moment.

At the moment I can't really think of more features, apart from more control over the camera and some camera-creation wizzard that just requires pushing some buttons, but I cant promise that will happen very soon, since I'm pretty busy with other things. I think the bugfixes go first now :)

[Fischfix]

cool stuff! :)

[Frankmd]

A little tip for people experiencing problems with noobTV or any other Java program. I just switched on Anti Aliasing and all Java programs kept crashing the monitor (all other stuff kept running, sound, mouse etc. but the screen went black). This is a nvidia forceware problem: java cant handle forced Anti Aliasing, you should put the AA option to 'Let application choose'.

If you still want to have AA (for LFS for example) you can workaround this by adding a profile for all javax.exe programs that are located in your java folder. There are several files, like javaw.exe, java.exe etc, you should all add those to the profile. This profile should then contain the AA -> 'Let application choose' setting. You can then leave the global setting to 2xAA or something.

[Moonclaw]

I've used 4xAA 16xAF with noobtv in both windowed and full screen, no problems.

NV 7800GT, 91.28.

[Frankmd]

Hm, might be an issue with old forceware versions. For some reason I cant find an up to date version of forceware that will install on my laptop AND produce more then 4 fps :shrug: So I'm stuck with version 82.93.

[Deviling]

UMm For some reason i cant see the downloader.. i saw the v 0.8 and that didnt work...

Can any one get me noobTV.please:D

If this was asked. Then im sorry:)

[Frankmd]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=312793#post312793

[Fischfix]

is there an autoswitching function to be planned like in that lfstvdirector? whats the command for that probability stuff?

[Deviling]

Thanks bro:thumb:

[Frankmd]

is there an autoswitching function to be planned like in that lfstvdirector? whats the command for that probability stuff?

When I find time for new features, I will mainly focus on ways to present the current race events as good and extensive as possible to the user, so he can quickly make the decision himself. I think this works better then a program that decides for you.

[Fischfix]

hmmm... so there is no chance for sitting on the couch plugged my laptop on tv and have a watch of a replay of a MoE, STCC, LFSCAR or random online race :( withouth working myself...

too bad... :shrug:

[Black Goblin]

hi, i have problems to start noob tv.

when i type /insim 6500. i've to start the the cameratool.jar. but my WinRAR wants to open it.

so my question: how can i start noob tv coorectly ?

[Frankmd]

Hm, not really sure, try to open the jar using javaw.exe or java.exe in your java folder (Right click -> Open with...).

[Frankmd]

Here is version 0.95. I think it will be the last version before I post v1.0 in the addon forum.

It mainly contains fixes and other ways of doing things.


Camerafiles are read out in a more tolerant way (errors like spaces at the end of a line are not causing a crash anymore) and noobTV saves a log file while reading the camera files, telling you what camera's were succesfully read and which were not (and why not).
Different way of calculating the position on which to focus when watching two cars.
Better position prediction.

[muffinman]

I'm sorry but I downloaded this earlier and it looks really cool, but I have nooo idea how to use it lol.
am i missing a tutorial somewhere? Because I cant figure out how to place camera views, but I know how to move the camera though... yay?

[Frankmd]

There is a tutorial included on how to create camera-positions, and the working of the tool itself is explained in the readme file (altough a bit outdated).

[muffinman]

Are the tutorials the files called cameraButton.class, ControlPanel$cameraControl.class, etc? I found the readme file but it really tells you just how to install and run it. I find that if you are following a car in Shift+U mode then use the noobTV to move the camera, it goes off the track and under it too lol ;) And since Shift+U and noobTV camera mover are 2 different things, its really slow to move the noobTV camera, faster using Shift+U =/

[Frankmd]

In the zip, there is a folder called tutorial. You shouldn't be extracting the .jar files, you should execute them.

[muffinman]

OHH woa thanks I found it :)

now i shall figure out how to use it! Cant wait to see what this baby can do...

[Fischfix]

the camera priority thing isn't in the turorial, which makes this feature useless, if we don't know the commands :shrug:

[Frankmd]

I know, it will be documented in the v1.0 tutorial (when I find time).

What it does is this:

You can give the probability a number between 1 and 100. When the program finds more then one camera that can be used to look at a car, it will use this probability number to choose which of the cameras is used. A camera with a high probability will have a higher chance of being picked, a camera with a low probability a low chance. There is no chance that no camera is being picked, so in case there are two cameras with probability=10, each camera will have 50% chance of being picked. However, if one camera has probability=10 and the other probability=50, the first camera will have 16.7% chance, and the second camera 83.3%.

When a camera with probability=100 is found, this will immediatly be chosen (so 99 is the highest setting for a camera that is still picked at random). Use this for pit-area cameras, to force them to be used instead of the camera defined for the s/f area.

Cameras without the probability setting have probablity=50.

[muffinman]

Alright, i get now how it works. You fly to a spot where you want to put a camera. Now on the noobTV theres a bunch of data like x axis, y axis, pitch, etc. And it says "copy". Where do i put all of these numbers? In the replay.txt? And does it matter what order the different views are in? This is just a little bit confusing for meh

[Frankmd]

Have you read the tutorial?

[muffinman]

yes i have but i completely suck with computers... im only 15 please bear with me lol

[Cr45h]

Any news about dedicated site with possibility to upload/download best rated custom cams for tracks?

BTW, Congrats for this very helpful tool! From now, all replay registration will be better!!

[Fischfix]

i still hope there will be some action detection in the future. looks like the lfs-tv director is dead. so all my hopes are now lying on this tool :/

[Tube]

Dunno where this file would go, but still...
Static long-range camera set for Aston North

[GrandlHuber]

is the message i get from lfs.

Is NoobTV not compatible with patch X?

I hope it´s not tooo much work for frank to fix it!



keep on ur good work

[the_angry_angel]

No its not, and yes it's a fair bit of work :)

[geezer45]

Here is version 0.9. Some new features etc. Version 1.0 will be the same as 0.9, but then bugfixed and including all the cameras I've made and the ones that were found in this topic (fetzo: I have to edit your camera's to make them work properly in v0.9), since I am sure there are some minor bugs in it. Please report them here :)
Where is version 0.9? Is it meant to be somewhere in your post? Am I missing something? :P

**EDIT** Found it!

[Frankmd]

Hey guys,

I am sorry to say that in the coming year I will not be able to put in any time at all in noobTV, Masters of Endurance or anything LFS related at all.
However, since some leagues, such as the MoE was using my software, I have decided to provide the source code of noobTV so someone with some Java knowledge can convert it to the new InSim protocol again. It shouldn't be a lot of work, once you've figured out where you have to make the adjustments.

You can always post questions here, I hope I can answer most of them.

Regards,
Frank