Remove LX4's spare wheel

[bobvanvliet]

I've always felt that even when you have a relatively non-race-spec streetcar lotus 7 thingie, you wouldn't take your spare wheel racing.

It's just dead weight and frankly, IMHO it looks a bit silly. If it's there to distinguish the 4 from the 6, I think the bulge and different rims on the 6 already do the trick.

[Vain]

The spare wheel's an additional bumper! ;)

Vain

[Bob Smith]

Yeah but that cars look naff without it.

[bobvanvliet]

naff? Pardon my linguistig skills, but the meaning of that one eludes me. :scratchch :tilt:

Is it a negative phrase in response to my suggestion or a positive one in response to Vain?

[Gentlefoot]

The Queen uses it when she desribes something of poor taste or style. lol

[bobvanvliet]

Ow ok, that's what you get for not living in the UK, I guess. :razz:

Anyhoo, I disagree. I think it looks stupid to go racing with the spare wheel on. Have you ever seen a caterham race where they do that? It would just be weird, 'cause as I said it's just dead weight. And as most people here are always saying LFS should be as close to RL racing as possible (including me), I feel the spares should go.

[deggis]

Maybe Scawen has planned a feature for S3 that when your tyre blows up, you can stop by the track and change the tyre yourself.

Or not.

[tristancliffe]

At least it shows that the LFS engine can have more than 4 wheels (even if the 5th doesn't have a realtime generated tyre). Just think - we could have Safari rallies or Dakar type events where you can only use the spares you carry, so a spare wheel, jack, spare spark plugs, a big hammer, a hacksaw...

Then you could make an inventory system like an RPG, and have turn based driving, with real time overtaking and crashing.

Hmmmm, got a bit carried away there. But at least my idea wasn't THAT far from Deggis'

Edit: To make my post useful in this thread, I think we should get rid of it. If it looks silly without it then the model could be tweaked so it mimics a real life track caterham of similar specs. Would be cool if it kept the brackets and bolts that hold the wheel in place, so it really looks like you've left it in the paddock.

[bobvanvliet]

Any useful input on the actual suggestion? :shrug: :shy:

[Vain]

Okay, here comes the usefulness (*drumroll*):
No car in LFS is "lightweight". They all have their complete interior, complete with leather-seats and wooden decorations. So at the moment we're just taking normal streetcars right from the street to the track. (Except for the GTR-cars and singleseaters, but the former are just streetcars with racing-frames.)
So at the moment no car in LFS except the single-seaters tries to be as light as possible.
I sincerely hope someone will rip out all the unnecessary weight from all cars, not just the LX4. The reduced dampening will also give better sounds. ;)

Vain

[Paranoid Android]

I'm with you on this one...the wheel has to go, I also think it's useless.
Maybe other ways to differentiate the lx6 and the lx4 can be found, but this one is not realistic.

[ldriver]

Why wouldn t ther be a "LX5" without spare tyre to replace both lx4 and lx6?

[Vain]

Because no one likes 5-cylinder motors.

Vain

[bobvanvliet]

@Vain: Ok, valid point. Just one thing: I get that the FXO and XRT and stuff don't have their leather upholstery ripped out. I always envision the road cars in LFS as cars you can drive at home and take to a track day or something so that makes sense. A spare wheel however, comes off (and back on) in two minutes and I believe it's something everyone would do when going to a track day (or club race for that matter).

@Paranoid Android: As I said, there's allready quite some stuff seperating them (bulge, vents, rims).

@ldriver: Because they're different cars with different characteristics of course. Nobody wants less cars in LFS, me thinks... :pillepall ;)

[Gentlefoot]

He's right you know. I have spent a lot of time at trackdays and yes, everyone removes everything that comes out easily from the car. I've seen people remove back seats.

[ldriver]

Sure but i think we want really different cars:pillepall

[Gentlefoot]

Thats not what the title of this thread is suggesting.

[bobvanvliet]

Without the wheel it looks just like the LX6's backside, which is fine and just like it looks in RL. Especially with a nice skin. :D

[mrbogeyman]

Although it makes it very easy to differentiate between LX4 and LX6, i must say i agree that it looks a bit silly.

Especially as it bascially just looks as though its floating there. Also, when the number plate gets bashed it clips through wheel and looks cack!

It would be nice to see the LX models tweaked, but imo they are pretty much OK as it is. If the tyre were to be removed, then some other distinguihing feature could be added just to help. I would recommend adding two more bars to the existing roll over bars on the LX6, to make it look more like other 'more racey' caterham type cars.

I particularly like the roll over bars in the second picture, although this type of roll over bar configuration might be reserved for the LX8 if it ever makes an appearance.

Like in these pictures
1. http://www.halling.org.uk/Pics/CCCB/Caterhamback.jpg
2. http://www.ianhardy.net/albums/nsscc_oulton_a_e_f_g/IR0E2086.jpg

[skylineadam]

I think bogey is spot on. The number plate can go into the wheel, and imo it looks a bit back heavy with that wheel bolted on. But then again people are correct in saying that they are road cars non prepped racing, exept gtr's etc... But i do think that it needs to be taken off and possibly a little bit of a roll cage added perhaps. But at the end of the day, its a blast to scream the nuts off the engine and race them :D

[Hyperactive]

If it is there just to make a difference between the LX4 and the LX6 I would like to get rid of it. Or add the wheel to LX6 too. But it has no use and a said before it is just additional weight. And it's too light for being a ballast :)

Change the spare tire to rollcage +1

[mrbogeyman]

Change the spare tire to rollcage +1

I think roll cage including the diagonal roof struts on LX6 as it is the more powerful, but keep the LX4 as it is now just without the tyre.

[bobvanvliet]

Yeah, extra roll cage on the LX6 is a nice idea, although you could argue that the 6 cilinder is also available as just a roadcar... Anyhoo, let's leave that up to Victor (as long as he ditches the spare wheel :D )

As long as he's at it he might aswell change on more thing that's been suggested earlier, namely tape crosses on the headlights. As I understand it that is obligatory even at many trackdays and really makes the car look Race-ey. :thumb:

[ajp71]

I think the spare wheel should be removed too, I've never seen a car gone racing that hasn't deposited its spare in the paddock first.

I'd also like to see rollcages and some degree of stripped interiors in all the cars cars without cages are allowed on track days but there is no competitive track environment where you are allowed to race without them :shrug:

[mrbogeyman]

remember they are still road going cars, so i doubt people would strip their interiors all the time. caterhams are pretty sparse anyway!

@bobvanvliet: its Eric who does the cars. :thumb:

[ajp71]

remember they are still road going cars, so i doubt people would strip their interiors all the time. caterhams are pretty sparse anyway!

@bobvanvliet: its Eric who does the cars. :thumb:

I wasn't talking about the LX with the stripped interiors, more the GTRs, which just seem stupid. As for road legal racing cars the vast majority are stripped down for racing and very few are actually used on the road.

[mrbogeyman]

I wasn't talking about the LX with the stripped interiors, more the GTRs, which just seem stupid. As for road legal racing cars the vast majority are stripped down for racing and very few are actually used on the road.

oh right, well thats fairly obvious :D GTRs have never had a interior made for them anyway, it is just a straight copy from the road going version.

[bobvanvliet]

@bobvanvliet: its Eric who does the cars. :thumb:
Oop. Of course. Kind of a typo, had been reading a thread where victor had posted some stuff. :x :tilt:

[mrbogeyman]

just found a much better picture showing the roll cages in the LX skins section.

http://www.imagevaults.co.uk/images/caterham/05/donington/Fennymore01.jpg

[JeffR]

I got rid of the spare and the support brackets on my real Caterham SV (1300lb car, 250hp 4 cylinder 2.3 liter Ford Duratec engine):

caterham pics (http://jeffareid.net/ctm.htm)

[EeekiE]

Because no one likes 5-cylinder motors.

Vain

I do! Audi Quattro Sport goodness :smileypul

[mrbogeyman]

I got rid of the spare and the support brackets on my real Caterham SV (1300lb car, 250hp 4 cylinder 2.3 liter Ford Duratec engine):

caterham pics (http://jeffareid.net/ctm.htm)

Now, JeffR, that is one sweet car! :tilt:

I can only dream!

But, I would say that is very comparable to the LX6.

How do you think LFS measures up?

[JeffR]

How do you think LFS measures up?LX6 has less power and is harder to drive, but so would my Caterham if I couldn't feel the forces in the car. The Caterham recovers from oversteer almost on it's own, unlike the LX6, but this could be setup / tire / differential issue. First gear is tall, 62mph at redline, and this is the first car I've owned where I can get lift throttle oversteer (mostly because first gear is tall enough I can be going fast enough for this to happen).

[tailing]

Further to this suggestion I think when you take the top off the LX cars the windscreen should change to the smaller wind deflectors that are generally used when racing all manner of super7 clones. Tonneau covers for the passenger side would also be nice as they are regularly used to also decrease drag.

[bobvanvliet]

Great idea! :thumb:

This would lead to a full field of LXs looking even cooler than they do already. :)

[boosterfire]

It's true that everyone that wants the result of "fast as possible" would usally take out the spare wheel, as you don't care if there's one on a race-track.

At this point, fanboys will make their entry saying that it's not a race car. :pillepall

[Tweaker]

It is funny too. The spare tire on the LX4 pretty much DOES need to come off because we currently have a bug where the wheel on the back does not move in conjunction with the body when the rearend is damaged, it just floats. There really is no point in having it, I agree, but I guess it is the only most noticeable difference from the LX4 and the LX6. But I still would prefer the wheel off ;)

:up:

[JeffR]

Further to this suggestion I think when you take the top off the LX cars the windscreen should change to the smaller wind deflectors that are generally used when racing all manner of super7 clones. Tonneau covers for the passenger side would also be nice as they are regularly used to also decrease drag.Windscreens aren't street legal, so that is why I have to use the windshield. I've read that in California, you can't wear a helmet in a car, even though the ratio of head related deaths in cars is higher than the head related deaths on motorcycles (more internal injury related deaths on bikes).

[Tweaker]

Windscreens aren't street legal, so that is why I have to use the windshield. I've read that in California, you can't wear a helmet in a car, even though the ratio of head related deaths in cars is higher than the head related deaths on motorcycles (more internal injury related deaths on bikes).

Hmmm I wonder if we will ever be allowed to have that Volkswagen GX3 (http://www.supercars.net/cars/3350.html) in the US then. I guess they don't allow helmets in cars because it makes people think they are racing :p But I guess people listening to music with their iPods and earbuds while driving is safer :zombie:

[Hyperactive]

Hmmm I wonder if we will ever be allowed to have that Volkswagen GX3 (http://www.supercars.net/cars/3350.html) in the US then. I guess they don't allow helmets in cars because it makes people think they are racing :p But I guess people listening to music with their iPods and earbuds while driving is safer :zombie:

When I first looked at that car it looked like a decent brutal machine but then this picture (http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewPic=y&source=car&id=3350&p=2006_volkswagen_gx3_concept-2.jpg&y=2006&m=Volkswagen&o=GX3%20Concept) makes it look like a happy happy frog. :D

But I guess the LXs will change before S2 finish or at least the skinning models...

[ajp71]

I think the LXs should be put on aeroscreens, a large number of Caterhams don't even have full windscreens on the road. The only cars racing with full windscreens will be in classes where the regs state that production windscreens have to be used, which aren't that common as they cause problems in the wet because these cars tend to have fairly comical wipers and stone chips from flying gravel is a nightmare.

Windscreens aren't street legal, so that is why I have to use the windshield.

They're legal in the UK. Since aero screens were banned from the class we race the Morgan in we put it on aeroscreens to get it through the MOT due to the chips on the windscreen.

[tailing]

Windscreens aren't street legal, so that is why I have to use the windshield. I've read that in California, you can't wear a helmet in a car, even though the ratio of head related deaths in cars is higher than the head related deaths on motorcycles (more internal injury related deaths on bikes).

Similar to what ajp71 said here in Oz wind deflectors are legal afaik and most that race competitively use them. I guess it all comes down to whether the LX's in LFS are road going cars having a day on the track where the wheel and windscreen should stay or if they're more race orientated where the wheel would be removed and wind deflectors and tonneau covers used.

[bobvanvliet]

Similar to what ajp71 said here in Oz wind deflectors are legal afaik and most that race competitively use them. I guess it all comes down to whether the LX's in LFS are road going cars having a day on the track where the wheel and windscreen should stay or if they're more race orientated where the wheel would be removed and wind deflectors and tonneau covers used.
That's just it. My initial point was that even when they're road-cars having a track-day, you would remove the spare wheel for the duration of that day because it's such a small effort.

Additionally, you would put cool looking tape crosses over the headlights (I guess to avoid shards of glass in a crash). I would love to have them in LFS aswell. :thumb: