Skin. Is It Bad To Use Skins From Skins_x? [Archive]

P1lot

17th February 2006, 09:25

tristancliffe

17th February 2006, 09:36

danowat

17th February 2006, 09:48

So using a skin that is automatically downloaded to your PC is akin to breaking and entering?, gimme a break man :).

Yes, its bad manners, but you are not physically stealing anything are you?.

Dan,

S14 DRIFT

17th February 2006, 09:53

but i thought as i havent said i make it, if any1 asks where i got it form i say some (anyteam) member it would b ok.Anyhoo, if they idntwant people using them, y would they put them on LFSWORLD or something for others 2 download

*in response to the stealing clothes from house thing*true, but what if i had them and any1 who sees them can get them from thier warddrobre

and if it so bad, why did LFS makers put the skins_x in anyway
**PS** thanks for all the comments

danowat

17th February 2006, 09:58

Probably best to just use public or personal skins, its a can of worms that isnt worth opening, unless you drive from the outside view then the skin doesnt make a great deal of difference really anyway.

Dan,

tristancliffe

17th February 2006, 10:00

Well, I think people put them on LFSW so you can SEE them, not use them on your own car. And team skins should be a definite no-no.

You're less likely to get into trouble (bans, kicks, abuse) if you restrict yourself to using only personal skins, and ideally asking the person you got it from if it's okay. Most of the time, if you ask, people will be flattered.

Danowat - I made it quite clear that my example wasn't entirely accurate because it's not a crime in LFS, so your comment was unneccessary. I guess it depends on what you define stealing as. If I make a skin, I own the intellectual copyright on that skin (assuming I didn't copy it or use other people's logo's without permission), so if someone else uses it without my persmission then you could argue it's stealing.

der butz

17th February 2006, 10:06

well technically you download the skins just to SEE them (thus the skins_x folder). If every racer would permanently "stream" his skin into the game there would be only head to head races possible. Using a team or personal skin is not really illegal but I think it should be ;-) Some guy invests many hours of work to show off, and then some other guy takes this piece of art (well, mostly it is) and drives around with it or even alters it. IMO that's not very fair. So go to Master skinnerz, look at the stunning skins, e.g. in the skin contest. They're all public, that means you may USE them freely (does NOT mean that you are allowed to doodle around with them except for an individual number or so). You can also have your skin personalized by one of the skinnerz there, they are really nice folks!
hope I could help.
butz

danowat

17th February 2006, 10:07

So even though the skin's base is public domain, you own the copyright on a skin you have made?, and would be stealing if someone else were to use it?
I think you would stuggle to claim copyright infringement for something that is "given" to people via the LFSworld system, is based on public domain originals, AND, not being sold by you for monetary gain.
Like I have said, it is bad manners, I would'nt do it, I would'nt expect others to do it purely down to manners, but to start banding around legalitys, copyrights and stealing is wrong.

Dan,

bobvanvliet

17th February 2006, 10:07

Oooh, yes! Let's drag intellectual copyright into this, that'll be fun! :razz:

(no offence, Tristan, I actually agree with you. It's just that discussions about IP are usually highways to nowhere).

@S14 Drift: Even aside from using someone else's personal skin: I understand you were using a TEAM skin. Team skins are created to identify a specific team that works together and has a reputation to uphold. I think anyone can understand them not liking the fact that you used their team-skin when you're not in their team. :shrug:

S14 DRIFT

17th February 2006, 10:12

yes yes, but 2 things, 1 i was using that skin on a server once with RS*R meber and he didnt car, adn 2 the person who tryed 2 ban me wanst in the team in question
*thanks 4 the tips*

danowat

17th February 2006, 10:13

yes yes, but 2 things, 1 i was using that skin on a server once with RS*R meber and he didnt car, adn 2 the person who tryed 2 ban me wanst in the team in question
*thanks 4 the tips*

If someone asks you to not use a skin, then just dont use it, its not worth the hassle, there are 100's of other nices skins to use instead :thumb:

Dan,

Hyperactive

17th February 2006, 10:53

Using other people's skins is ok only if you have got the permission from the creator of the skin beforehand. Many people have invested a lot of time to make their skins.

I would be very pissed if noticed someone else using my skin. Like I bet many others would. The reason I have created my own skins is that people can and could recognize me from my skin and so that I could be distunguished from a group of people. If people started using them they wouldn't be anymore my personal skins. I know that my skins aren't exactly good in artistic terms but it's mine and for my use only :)

Gentlefoot

17th February 2006, 10:56

garph

17th February 2006, 11:06

I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. People make public skins for anyone to use and people make personal skins for themselves.

It's just about respect in the end, if you use someone's personal/team skin and they ask you to stop using it, just stop using it. Better yet don't use personal or teams skins to start with and if you don't know if it's personal or public don't use it.

richy

17th February 2006, 11:18

you really dont want to drive around with someone elses name on the drivers door either :thumb:

JJ72

17th February 2006, 11:21

That's interesting..since LFS is a global activity, what sort of copyright law can monitor these situations?

Just asking, not like I will spend time sueing someone all the way in Mexico. :D

danowat

17th February 2006, 11:28

None, you wouldn't be able to get copyright cover on skins.

Dan,

SatCP

17th February 2006, 12:04

Personally I think it would be a nice feature to have the area where most skinners put their name, logo, webaddress,... also show up in the LFS garage. Not on the car of course ;)

That way skinners could add PUBLIC USE / NOT FOR PUBLIC USE -like messages to their skins, and people using these skins would immediatly see these messages while browsing through skins in the LFS garage. Most people "stealing" skins don't do it intentionally. They just see there's a bunch of cool skins in the skins_x directory and move them over to their own skins folder. Usually they don't check each skin in a graphics program or previewer, and in the LFS garage you don't get to see the skinner's name, address, copyright notice. If this area would be shown in the LFS garage, even these people would see the NOT FOR PUBLIC USE messages on several skins. Not that this will prevent people from stealing skins, but those who are now unaware of it might stop using it. And for those who don't, there's no more excuse they didn't see it...

danowat: And why should that be so? If I take a picture, I have a copyright on that picture. If I draw a picture, the same goes up. If people view my pictures/drawings on my website, they also download a copy to their harddisk (browser cache - compare it with skins_x). That's ok, nothing illegal. They are allowed to do so for personal use. But it would be wrong for them to use any of my graphics on their own webpage or somewhere else where other people will be able to view it. They should first ask permission.

So if I design a skin, the copyright is also mine. That my skin is also on everyone's computer I raced with doesn't mean I permit them to use it freely. I permit them to view my work, not redistribute it.

People cloning existing skins may be on thin ice since they usually didn't ask the originating racing team (or whoever who did the real car) permission to use their "skin". Of course they still had to do all graphics work by themselves...

danowat

17th February 2006, 12:11

Why?, because its not that simple, you don't automatically get a copyright on something because you have made it, at least in the UK, you first need to apply for patents, registered designs or trademarks, before you can have a copyrighted item, also, I am fairly sure that you can't copyright something that you are not getting monetary gain for, also the fact that the thing you have created is from a PD "blank" muddies the waters further.
Copyright is a BIG pain in the neck, I am a designer for packaging etc, trust me, its hard enough to get copyrights for our designs, and you have to jump through many hoops to do so, just because you have created something, it doesnt automatically mean you own a copyright to it.
I am not talking about the respect or manners factor, but the fact that you would NEVER, EVER be able to get anything like copyright infringement for a skin to stand up in court, plus it would cost you an arm and a leg to do so.

Dan,

SatCP

17th February 2006, 12:22

I don't know about the UK, but here in Belgium / The Netherlands you automatically have a copyright on everything you create (literature, art, software,...). You don't need to apply for patents. That's something completely different (and is costly here too). The copyright is yours for whole your life and applies even up to 70 years after your death.

You don't even have to put up a copyright notice on your work, although it's recommended to avoid confusion.

I have quite a few links about this, but all in Dutch. I'll see if I can find excerpts of the law in English.

danowat

17th February 2006, 12:25

Again, that would introduce another problem, the variables of different laws in different countries.
Best thing to do is not bring up the "legality" of it, and just hope that peoples manners and respect stop them using a skin which they shouldnt.

Dan,

Smax

17th February 2006, 12:47

It's true that you can't take what Tristan wrote literally, but in the context of the game, it's a very good analogy. When you choose a skin, you choose a set of clothes for your car.

When doing so it is my opinion that you should always view the skin in a windows file viewer and look for text on the parts of the skin.jpg which don't show up on the car. If it says this skin is private don't use it then don't it's that simple.

This argument has come up many times before and will no doubt come up many times again. I too doubt that any effective action could be taken against copyright theft, we're talking about 3rd party freeware content which has been voluntarily released onto the internet for a videogame.
No usage control agreements exist between any of the parties involved, and the bottom line is that we're usually talking about a single image.

At the end of the day some people will show respect for a skinners work and wishes and some people will not. If those who do not do so out of ignorance then it might be an idea to start a sticky thread in the skinning section which says something simple like "make sure you look at every skin you want to use in windows explorer before you use it and ensure that there are no usage restrictions written on it." Then all you need is to encourage skinners to simply write somethign like "private skin don't use/public skin use but don't edit/public skin do want you want with it" on their work.

Hyperactive

17th February 2006, 13:09

I guess you have understood little wrong the idea of copyrights and patents. I feel that I'm pretty right when I say this: When you create something that can be seen something with artistic value, may it be a tea cup or a skin you always have the copyright for it, you don't need to apply for it. You don't need to even mark the artistic piece of work with your name etc.. It's your work and you have the copyright for it after you have made one mark size of one pixel on the paper.

Patents are different, you always need to apply for it, otherwise everyone can use/manufacture and sell it. In this matter patents are completely different thing.

The problem with this copyright is that you can make/create/borrow something very similar/the actual picture etc. without it being a copyright issue. So you can and you are allowed to use other people's skins legally without having to even ask their permission for it. if you "use" it privately.

You can't alter the picture, skin, in any way and show it publicly and you can't use other people's skins online or "publicly". Without permission. Permission to use it doesn't mean permission to edit it.

But some people see this the same way they see the p2p programs. If you can get something without paying anything/doing it yourself why bother. The thing that if something is easily downloadable from internet (skins, haxored computer programs or games) doesn't mean that you immediatelly gain all rights to it simply because you have a copy from it.

Skins in skin_x folder are not for your use.

Using other people's skins without permission is a punishable act and imho any self respecting team should insta ban such members. :)

I think it's simply better to write on the skins what permissions the user has to that skin, instead of writing the obvious "do not" stuff. If the skin is free, so the user may edit and use it freely, the creator could write: "public skin, free for use, but do not edit" or "public skin, free for use and edit". This would stop people using other people's skins simply because someone didn't remember to write the obvious text on to it. :)

B2B@300

17th February 2006, 13:13

Lets say one day I walked passed your house. I saw you come out wearing some clothes I liked, and thought "thats pretty cool" (bear with me). So I waited until you weren't looking, snuck into your house, took all your clothes, put them on, and then walked around your neighbourhood so you'd see me.

Wouldn't you be a bit cross? I know in LFS it's not techically a criminal offence, but it's not nice. The reason the skins go in the skins_X folder is so that you know which ones are yours and which ones are other peoples.

A slightly better version would be to say what you said but in the context of room mates :scratchch in which case it is polite to ask permission to use your roommates jeans or that cool shirt but even if you didn't, it's not a travisty and would be considered rude at worst :) and how each room mate reacted to the situation would simply be a reflection of their personality, beliefs, etc. :shrug: I don't personally use other peoples skins and if someone used mine it wouldn't bother me :tilt: In the situation you dicribed I'd just say "sorry m8 want do it again." and carry on, if they still have a beef with that then it's their problem not yours :D

joshdifabio

17th February 2006, 13:19

Danowat you are wrong. You don't need to apply for a copyright, it is nothing like a patent or trademark. All you have to do when you create something is say somewhere on it that it is copyright to you and have proof that it existed on a certain date. So you could upload a file to the internet and write on it somewhere that it is copyright and that together with the datestamp on the file would be enough to copyright it.

This is a quote taken from a british website www.is4profit.com:

Copyright gives the creators of certain kinds of material rights to control ways their material can be used. These rights start as soon as the material is recorded in writing or in any other way. There is no official registration system.

So please be quiet and stop talking bs ;).

JJ72

17th February 2006, 13:27

Why?, because its not that simple, you don't automatically get a copyright on something because you have made it,

In Hong Kong, you DO get automatic copyrights.

B2B@300

17th February 2006, 13:30

Using other people's skins without permission is a punishable act and imho any self respecting team should insta ban such members.

Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion :pillepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court :shrug: Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop :x there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do :Looking_a

Also in life you may automatically have copy write, but it's another matter to enforce that copy write (which is probably why they have patents) :shy: If your oponent has more money, resources and contacts than you :x The law may be just, but it doesn't always garrantee justice :schwitz:The world is full of injustices the type of person you become in old age depends on how you cope with those injustices in life :scratchch

It shouldn't be an issue of copy write at all it's an issue of respect for others property, and as people become more familiar with the community they will no dought respect each other and as a consequence respect the property of others, to bash people over the head with legal threats of breach of copy write doesn't do you any good for you or the community imho It is only a skin! And if thats all you've got to make a fuss over then you need to be mighty thankfull, cause your obviously better off than the majority of people in this world :D

joshdifabio

17th February 2006, 13:34

Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion :pillepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court :shrug: Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop :x there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do :Looking_a

Also in life you may automatically have copy write, but it's another matter to enforce that copy write :shy: If your oponent has more money, resources and contacts than you :x The law may be just, but it doesn't always garrantee justice :schwitz:The world is full of injustices the type of person you become in old age depends on how you cope with those injustices in life :scratchch
Its copyright not copy write :p. It's a right nothing to do with writing.

B2B@300

17th February 2006, 14:02

Its copyright not copy write :p. It's a right nothing to do with writing.

:rofl: well that ruined that :D ah well :homersimp DOH! :D

jtr99

17th February 2006, 14:42

Lets say one day I walked passed your house. I saw you come out wearing some clothes I liked, and thought "thats pretty cool" (bear with me). So I waited until you weren't looking, snuck into your house, took all your clothes, put them on, and then walked around your neighbourhood so you'd see me.

Hmm. Wouldn't a better metaphor be going to the shops and buying the exact same clothes that the target was wearing and then parading around the neighbourhood thinking you look cool? Because there's no physical theft here, only the (debatable) idea that you're stealing intellectual property by copying the way someone (or something) else looks. You'd be lame, and a bit of a jerk, but I don't think I could call you a thief.

Don't get me wrong, I've never used skins out of the skins_x folder as I agree that it seems rude. But I think your theft metaphor is over the top.

BBO@BSR

17th February 2006, 14:47

.... You don't just get copyright as a matter of course. You must apply. ....
...you don't automatically get a copyright on something because you have made it, at least in the UK, you first need to apply for patents, registered designs or trademarks, before you can have a copyrighted item....
Guys in my eyes this is definitive wrong!

The British law states that an individual's work is placed under copyright law as soon as it leaves that person's mind and is placed in some physical form, be it a painting, a musical work written in manuscript or an architectural schematic.

Of course there are many exceptions like when you are an employee and create something for your company etc. but the need to register it first was abolished a long time ago (i think in 1956).

Of course it's better to register your work because you can much easier prove that is your work if you have to go to court, but it's not necessary.

You automatically have the copyright on your "work" (painted skin or whatever).

btw patents, trademarks and copyrights are three completely diverse things.

Gentlefoot

17th February 2006, 14:59

Sure, I think I may have copyright confused with patent. Apologies for adding to the vast amount of misinformation floating around the web.

danowat

17th February 2006, 15:14

Fair enough, if my understanding of it (IP) is incorrect, I have no problem with that.

Dan,

Smax

17th February 2006, 15:33

The point is not what that law actually says, but how enforcable that law actually is.

In the context of single jpgs freely released to the internet for use in a videogame, it has already been pointed out that regardless of how many laws are actually broken, litigation is not a practical proposal.

Thus we fall back onto respect for another. Since this community prides itself on being helpful, friendly and above all respectful of each other, for the majority that shouldn't be a problem. That said the minority will always exist, and it is up to the majority to point out the error of their ways to that minority.

BBO@BSR

17th February 2006, 17:41

...
Thus we fall back onto respect for another. Since this community prides itself on being helpful, friendly and above all respectful of each other, for the majority that shouldn't be a problem. That said the minority will always exist, and it is up to the majority to point out the error of their ways to that minority.

I totally agree with that. :thumb:

Hyperactive

17th February 2006, 18:56

Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion :pillepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court :shrug: Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop :x there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do :Looking_a
...

You're right. My comment was too severe but still in extend, I think it should be ok. What I mean that if someone is using someone else's skins all the time, maybe not allowing him to use the automatic skin downloading feature at LFSWorld... or I dunno.

Ball Bearing Turbo

17th February 2006, 19:08

It think all you're saying is that there needs to be consequences for people who undermine the trust of the community in this regard, so long as it's intentional. Which I agree with, but many people probably would not understand the principle with that, especially people who are not really fanatical about LFS... Although by nature LFS attracts fanatics!

v4forlife

17th February 2006, 19:12

i think people that use team and personal skins are ass', as alot of people put alot of effort into creating design, just for some lazy so-an-so to use it all willy-nilly.

also, i just wanted to ask, and i nkow this is the extreme, but if you were to write 'personal skin, do not use, property of (enter name here)' and someone used that skin, could you(enters american mode) sue the pants off them for anything??

Ball Bearing Turbo

17th February 2006, 19:14

no.

edit:
pants only get sued off when there is personal damage involved. If you spent a sizable amount of cash, there is a remote possibility that you could have a court order a cease and desist, with consequences of further penalites, but that would not likely happen - the judge would have to stop laughing first of all :D

th84

17th February 2006, 19:22

lol, american mode!! :x

mrodgers

17th February 2006, 22:11

There is a way that the copyright and using of skins without permission can be "policed" and it has already happened here. That would be the creators of the fantastic PUBLIC skins that are released in the community and sites like Master Skinnerz no longer show off their great creative talent. I won't bring up names, but I know of one fantastic and creative skinner who has released many fantastic works talk of quitting because he saw a rip of one of his own. I don't know what ever came of it, but it was sad to hear of someone give up because of the inconcideracy of others.

It's just simple. There are so many great skins released for public USE by great skinners. They say, use them, they are public, but don't modify. Then some inconciderat Ba*****d goes and modifies or rips of the design and the creator gets understandably PO'ed. It's just simple, skins are used for identification personally or team. Also skins are released for public. You shouldn't use any skins in the skins_x folder as you don't know if they are released publically or not. There is a skinning section here and many forums dedicated to skinning where you can find publicly released skins. Find them, use them, but don't modify them (without asking) and don't rip off the design for your own use.

Smax

17th February 2006, 22:31

I saw something the other day which might suggest said talented and prolific skinner might have re-considered and decided to make the odd public skin or two again, but nothing definite.

Ulitimately that is what happens....If you use skins without permission, claim others work as your own or edit skins without permission then sooner or later you'll end up having to make your own, cos nobody else will.

Jakg

17th February 2006, 22:32

lets just say that yes it is wrong, ask permission at least, however most skinners put notes on the skin f you open the actual skin (ie, name, email adress, plublic or not etc) because they are nice!

RevMonkey

17th February 2006, 23:12

Great - didn't know you could do this. Must go through that folder to find some skins I like lol

With regards intellectual property rights, copyright etc, its only a crime if the person who created the skin has actually applied for copyright on it (in English Law). You don't just get copyright as a matter of course. You must apply. I doubt anyone has actually bothered - it costs money.

So, probably all skins are fair game with regard the law. Obviously if someone was unhappy about it I would remove the skin from my collection without hesitation. And I do think using team skins of a team you're not in is a bit off.

btw - I'd be pleased if I saw people using my skins.

The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

from the US copyright office.

and just because someone puts something on a public domain, doesnt mean you can use it for your own purposes. take podcasts, for example. if you download a podcast, does it mean you can go broadcast it? no, the creator/owner has the rights. just because a skin is on lfs world, doesn't mean you can use it. it's so you can SEE them, not use them without permission.

richy

17th February 2006, 23:31

meh without all the political talk ill put it in stupid peoples terms.

dont steal shit man

mrodgers

18th February 2006, 00:21

meh without all the political talk ill put it in stupid peoples terms.

dont steal sh*t man
Hmm, without the use of punctuation, I can't tell if you are saying to not steal sh*t, or telling sh*tman not to steal, hehehe :razz: .

Just kidding bud :D . See, we're not so bad here, eh?

Very nicely, unpolitically, putting it there too.

Ball Bearing Turbo

18th February 2006, 02:48

Hmm, without the use of punctuation, I can't tell if you are saying to not steal sh*t, or telling sh*tman not to steal, hehehe :razz: .

:ices_rofl

Or, you're outlawing the theft OF the sh*itman! :D

Messiah

18th February 2006, 03:30

Skins that teams create are intended for team members only. Likewise for someone who spends time and effort creating a skin for their own personal use.

So don't be surprised if people don't like you using their skins, it is better to ask first and get their permission. There's not alot they can do to MAKE you stop using them, apart from make your life harder with kicking, banning etc.

/signed :)

Couldn't have said it better. And if one doesn't want to d/l loads of skins, turn off the optional automatic skin download within LFS.

There are skins that people create for public use, check out Master Skinnerz (http://skinnerz.proboards26.com/index.cgi)
Another site with a w e s o m e public skins is German Skin Depot (http://www.german-skin-depot.de) :)

Hallen

18th February 2006, 06:24

Wow, the IP and copyright issue has been well covered here. Good job guys.:thumb:

It comes down to this, if you don't have permission to use a skin... don't. I am glad you asked on this forum and I am glad you got some good answers.

In the end, there is nothing stopping you from doing it, but why be a peckerhead?

More IP trivia... did you know that none of you own the copy of LFS that you paid for? You own none of the bits from the program. You just own a license to USE the software, you don't own it. I think that LFS skins are much the same thing. You have a license to use them in the context of the game (be able to see other driver's skins), but you don't own the skins.

jtr99

19th February 2006, 12:58

Hyperactive

19th February 2006, 14:01

For the record: people who use someone else's skin without permission, people who use a team skin without belonging to that team, etc., are jerks.

But while we're on the subject: how many of you people who are so vigorously defending the IP rights of the skin creator also have a large collection of (unpaid-for) MP3s on your hard drive? I may be wrong but I suspect there is a bit of hypocrisy going on here. Anyone?

Cheers,
--Jason.

PS: for the record, I don't download MP3s either.

There is always hypocrisy going on when people talk about this. If I said that 90% of LFS players have used/do use illegal software I would think I'm pretty right with it. Luckily there is almost always a free program for it, so there is pretty much no excuse for it. People who use illegal versions of programs I have paid for, piss me off to some degree.

Julppu

20th February 2006, 04:35

Using teamskins without team-membership is just not worth it. It just have to be looked at this way: how many could wear the Hell'sAngels colors, participate in a bikerally and not get some (seriously) bad karma? :smileypul

Another issue is the thing about copyrights. It actually is an issue with our world-wide society and the perspect of individuals. Everyone has to get somekind of "reward" from the stuff they've created, or at least no-one else should gain from the works that I've done, without me getting "whats rightly mine". I don't deny those things. I admit that it bothers me a lot, if someone "uses my ideas or creations" and takes all the credit. That just sucks. I'm a lot less negative, if the (ab)user atleast give me credits for my original work (don't care that much about money :razz: ).

What I'm trying to say, is that skins can be modifed or "sampled", if the credits for original creation(s) is given. Ofcourse if someone says "don't" then don't. Not a biggie, not the end of the world.

Kind of like in sample-based music... Besides, everything has already been invented and created ;)

SkyNet

20th February 2006, 13:11

It's only a game, get a life guys. Arguing about car skins...sheesh!

B2B@300

20th February 2006, 13:28

It's only a game, get a life guys. Arguing about car skins...sheesh!

Hey! just because you have a life and we don't :( there's no need to rub our noses in it! :x :D:tilt::razz:

Hyperactive

20th February 2006, 13:34

It's only a game, get a life guys. Arguing about car skins...sheesh!

Just skins, in which some people have used hours or days. Great arguments, skynet!

Julppu

20th February 2006, 13:57

It's only a game, get a life guys.

(Totally stealing this thread, or atleast trying ;) )

Now how was it...

Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family, Choose a funky big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed-interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing sprit-crushing game shows, stuffing junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, f***ed-up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life.

:razz: