Black Flags

[X-Ter]

If there is anyone who remeber the game STCC-2 by Digital Illusions (DICE) they would recall the automatic black flag if they hit anyone to hard from behind. This was sometimes anoying but it worked. You had to learn to drive properly even with the AI cause a black flag meant a drive trough penalty.
It didn't give you a black flag for just a nudge or a scratch but anything harder than that was punished. Could that be implemented in LFS?

I understand that it would take some delicate programming and I understand that it wouldn't be 100% fair at all times, but at least it would help coming to terms with the "first turn warzone". I bet it also would help against fast drivers punting slower ones out of the way. They would suddenly have to do it like in real life. Wait for the slower (blue flagged?) driver to make room or simply pass them at a good spot.

At least, I would like to see this sort of thing as a server option. :nod:

[bobvanvliet]

I always thought a black flag stood for disqualification... That seems a bit harsh.

But a drive thru could be suitable punishment for hitting someone form behind too hard. Would be tricky to implement though, 'cause I can think of loads of reasons of this happening when it's not your fault... :really:

[frokki]

I don't think that would work. For example, if youre on a half lap lead, and hit accidentally some newbie sitting in the middle of a race line after a spin, you would still win the race after a collision. But if you're black flagged or punished with a stop and go for that accident (which isn't even your fault), your at the bottom at the checker flag.

[X-Ter]

As I said, it's not going to be 100% fair. But let's say you do hit that newbie (or anyone for that matter). In real life, you should have noticed the yellow flag, started to look way up front and ease off the gas a little just in case.
As it is now, some people drive worse than the SCGT AI and crash in turn one and instantly start hitting SHIFT+R.

[tonyyeb]

I think it is something that should be considered. Make LFS a bit more realistic - i know thats the wrong word for it but i think you know what i mean.

[bobvanvliet]

I don't think that would work. For example, if youre on a half lap lead, and hit accidentally some newbie sitting in the middle of a race line after a spin, you would still win the race after a collision. But if you're black flagged or punished with a stop and go for that accident (which isn't even your fault), your at the bottom at the checker flag.

I think it would be quite easy to program in an exception for hitting drivers that are causing a yellow flag...

[tonyyeb]

I think it would be quite easy to program in an exception for hitting drivers that are causing a yellow flag...

Even better! Great idea

[XCNuse]

you have to take into consideration things like blue flags and such; if the leader is comming up on someone thats a lap down or so, and they spun out and didnt look and turn out right infront of the leader causing them to crash; it should be the person that spun that got the flag, because they caused the collision; if they took the time to look, then they could have easily prevented such to happen

however; things get hairy especially when you start thinking of Aston GP/Historic/cadet and whatnot with that hill (going up it). That leaves many people in misery loosing all control.. and spinning out; if they spin out and somehow stay on the track, and someone else comes up spinning and whack them... well whos problem is it? is it the first person that spun, or the second?

so yes... lots has to be thought about before something can be programed; although i do agree, it would be very great to have something like that (not black flag though; drive through would much better suit that)

[frokki]

I think it would be quite easy to program in an exception for hitting drivers that are causing a yellow flag...

That's why i didn't go to highschool.
LOL :D

But XCNuse is right. Again.

[Gunn]

There is one major flaw with this concept. It isn't realistic. Big shunts do happen in racing and often it isn't through a breach of rules or sportsmanship. Penalising someone "just in case" they have acted wrongly does not sound very fair.

[Pabs(Sco)]

Ok time to raise this from the dead...but from a different point of view

We need black flags(disqual) and black & white flag(penalty, similar to Stop & Go!!

Simply, people should be black flagged on these occasions:

1) not giving way to blue flags, basically if you ignore the blue flag for too long you should be black flagged.

2) Causing an incedent when theres a yellow flag, this one is really tricky to handle. Basically if you are driving and there is a yellow flag you should back off the gas and prepare to slow down or stop (the offical rules for any driving sport). Causing an incedent during a yellow should have a penalty black & white flag.

Also Red flags should be shown when there is a huge incedent (mainly T1 incedents :P)

[AndyC]

1, Just wouldn't work in reality. For Example when i've just joined a race say in lap 5 i'll start to try and get as many positions ahead for a better starting grid slot. So if i come up to a racer who is 0.25 slower than me but I feel I could pull away I would overtake. But on doing this it may take me a whole lap to get rid of the blue sign, which would gain me a black flag even though I am faster and I am not slowing the other driver down.

2, Its a nice idea but sometimes you just can't help it especially if the crashed driver is rejoining on the apex as you come round (hate that) but you are right you should back off the throttle and be more aware. When i've had spins/collisions and someone comes flying around the corner and hits me, there was nothing I could do quickly enough to get out of the way but I still get a whole load of abuse from the person who crashed into me even though they never tried to slow down just a little.

Sometimes I just wish people realise stuff like this happens, we are all humans and make mistakes now and again. (I hardly ever get into situations like that but during the race there is always some argument about who done what and who's fault it is etc. Luckily the devs implemented the glorious - for message blocking)

Andy.

[mrodgers]

Ok time to raise this from the dead...but from a different point of view

We need black flags(disqual) and black & white flag(penalty, similar to Stop & Go!!

Simply, people should be black flagged on these occasions:

1) not giving way to blue flags, basically if you ignore the blue flag for too long you should be black flagged.

2) Causing an incedent when theres a yellow flag, this one is really tricky to handle. Basically if you are driving and there is a yellow flag you should back off the gas and prepare to slow down or stop (the offical rules for any driving sport). Causing an incedent during a yellow should have a penalty black & white flag.

Also Red flags should be shown when there is a huge incedent (mainly T1 incedents :P)
Have to say this again, blue flag does not mean stop and let them by. There are too many instances where you may see a blue flag and not need to let anyone by. In LFS, the blue flag only means someone ahead of you in position is close behind. Not that someone behind you is faster and should be let by. In longer league racing with pitting, this could cause alot of unneccessary black flags. If my strategy in 9th place is to pit on lap 15 and the leader's strategy who is now close behind is to pit on lap 20, then I'll recieve a blue flag, even though I could be running the same times as him and he is not catching me. I spent about 5 laps giving the guy ahead of me the blue flag in my last league race. I wasn't faster than him, I couldn't catch him. He just spun or something and pitted allowing me to come around and catch up to his tail. I certainly didn't want him to stop his race temporarily to let me by, I wasn't faster than him. I tried to catch up to him to put him a lap down to me, but couldn't.

I do like the black flag idea when ignoring the yellow or causing something during a yellow. But this may be tough because if someone close ahead spins and is sideways, you may not be able to avoid him, therefore code would probably give you a black flag for causing an incident during a yellow. As for the red flag, I'd rather see a true full course yellow flag (for league racing, server option) for big crashes. Makes for more interesting racing in leagues where the field can get gathered back up for a lap and allow the crashed cars to come to pit without loosing 3 laps on their way around.

[tristancliffe]

I once had a blue flag for over 6 laps! I joined a server, and a race was underway. I joined, and after a silly spin, I was about 100 yards in front of the leaders. But my times were the same to within a tenth of the leader, so he never caught me, and I never pulled away.

How would a black flag in that situation been fair?

[Vain]

The computer will even show a blue flag to a FZ50 driving in front of a GTi. As long as the computer doesn't know how to show correct blue flags there is no sense in penalting the player for the server's dumbness.

Vain

[Gunn]

Since it is impossible for your software and PC to make a decision on who really caused an incident, an automatic black flag in this case would not be useful. Cutting a corner perhaps, but not a collision.

[JamesF1]

How about, instead of an "automatic" black or black/white flag, there is an option to vote. I know it could be abused, but imagine this. Someone is causing a big holdup and ignoring blue flags for the leaders, the leader starts a vote for a black/white flag, and those who encounter the same trouble (maybe the vote should last longer than normal votes due to the time taken for multiple people to encounter the problem driver) also vote. And if the vote number is reached (maybe less proportionally than normal votes) then the driver is handed a drive-through or a stop-go (drive-through first offence [as with speeding, etc.] and a stop-go second offence).

[Lord_Verminaard]

I know it would be hard to write in to the game, but I've fallen victim several times to "brake checking", where I would be following someone for a few laps, and suddenly, they slam on their brakes full lock and I smack in the back of them, propeling them ahead and causing me to spin. Most of the time it has happened in key places, like the chicane in BL or the 90-degree turn 3 at SO town. I suppose when damage modeling gets a little better, and doing something like this actually hurt the car in front more, people will stop doing it, but it really sucks when you know you are faster and some idiot cant handle coming in 2nd instead of 1st.

Brendan

[XCNuse]

hows that a black flag lol

for one, if you hit someone from the rear thats all your fault, person in front can do whatever they want pretty much .. they can brake as hard as they want, and if you hit them it will always be your fault cause you were chasing to close

um.. whats the point of this thread again? or are you just ranting off about how you get to close and rear someone?.. or is there more stuff thats hidden that i cant seem to find :S

[bobvanvliet]

Well, someone slamming on the brakes 100% before the BL chicane or the mentioned SO turn isn't normal. Brake testing is fine and all, but it should be on a point where you would need to brake normally, only then you do it a bit earlier.

In theory, I am all for some sort of Black-flag-system to DQ aggressive/unfair drivers, but it would be very difficult to decide when the program issues such a flag.

This has been discussed here quite extensively, I suggest you use the search.

[ajp71]

XCNuse WTF are you saying?

Brake testing is no better than ramming a car off the track, it is completely unacceptable behaviour in both real life and in LFS. Of course the car in front can brake as early for the corner as they like, but not in the middle of a straight.

[NotAnIllusion]

Yep ppl who do that need to be shot. Had a couple of times someone lock brake in the middle of the bl1 back straight. Hardly an acceptable maneuvre.

@XCNuse:
It's the trailing driver's fault, true but not when the driver ahead makes a deliberate move, when it's not necessary, to make contact that will surely give advantage to him/her.

[XCNuse]

XCNuse WTF are you saying?
lol i guess i didnt really understand what he meant by saying 'brake check'

[bbman]

I was driving in the windshadow of someone in front of me at the BL1 straight and of course, I closed up... But when I was just enough close to pass him either side, he suddenly hopped on the brakes so that I bumped into him, pushing him forward so that he almost didn't lose any speed, whereas I was not only slowed down because I tried to brake to avoid this, but also from bumping into him... :pillepall

This racer was a hotlapper anyways, but such people REALLY should get a punishment of any sort...

[ajp71]

lol i guess i didnt really understand what he meant by saying 'brake check'

NP sorry if I sounded harsh :)

[AndroidXP]

In normal racing the one who's behind has to consider that the one infront may be braking earlier because he's new to the track
his braking is much less efficient when in the slipstream of the car infront
that for each car in a corner he has to brake a few metres earlier to the normal "hotlap brakepoint"
That said, if someone is an ass and brakes somewhere completely unreasonable, either because of stupidness or deliberately to wreck you (or both :mad:) he should get a penalty like he would in RL™ (read: he gets shot by the anti-wrecker snipers positioned on key points of the track :mischievo).

[geeman1]

In normal racing the one who's behind has to consider that
the one infront may be braking earlier because he's new to the track
his braking is much less efficient when in the slipstream of the car infront
that for each car in a corner he has to brake a few metres earlier to the normal "hotlap brakepoint"
I wish everyone would understand these points. I can't even count all the times I have been bumped in the back when the "faster" guy behind doesn't take those facts in to consideration.

[tristancliffe]

From a faster guys point of view, I still get surprised just HOW SLOW beginners go. Because I'm okay at LFS, it's hard to imagine just how rubbish some people are.

So following someone slow, I brake early, and hard, and they KEEP braking well beyond the apex, and bang, I've hit them. I've taken every reasonable effort to avoid them, I've gone off line, I've braked earlier, I've gone slower. I've gone so slow I could get out and push (if it was in the game). Yet they still go slower than me, and I hit them.

It's not always 'the fast people have no respect' you know. It's often the slow ones are just so mind-bogglingly slow.

[P5YcHoM4N]

From a faster guys point of view, I still get surprised just HOW SLOW beginners go. Because I'm okay at LFS, it's hard to imagine just how rubbish some people are.

So following someone slow, I brake early, and hard, and they KEEP braking well beyond the apex, and bang, I've hit them. I've taken every reasonable effort to avoid them, I've gone off line, I've braked earlier, I've gone slower. I've gone so slow I could get out and push (if it was in the game). Yet they still go slower than me, and I hit them.

It's not always 'the fast people have no respect' you know. It's often the slow ones are just so mind-bogglingly slow.

This is true. I have watched a few replays of me when I started, and compared them to a few I made last night. Same car and track. I was just so damn slow back then D: I'm still slow now, but that's not the point :P

[AndroidXP]

While I understand your point, it's still your fault. But it's kinda hard to really realise that he's now going to be incredibly slow because he's a newbie (or has technical difficulties) in LFS where you don't have any form of 3D perception. IRL you can notice very small amounts of speed change very quickly, while in LFS you only notice that when he gets bigger and bigger.

[P5YcHoM4N]

I just worked out how to fix this without flags, which will be impossable to implement fairly if the computer does them.

Fuel Leak.

Simple fix. If someone stops hard, and you back end them, you rupture their tank, and oh noes, they lose. :)
And to prevent wreckers abusing it. Split rads :)

[edit: hmm, maybe it wont prevent wreckers... food for thought.]

[geeman1]

I just worked out how to fix this without flags, which will be impossable to implement fairly if the computer does them.

Fuel Leak.

Simple fix. If someone stops hard, and you back end them, you rupture their tank, and oh noes, they lose. :)
And to prevent wreckers abusing it. Split rads :)

[edit: hmm, maybe it wont prevent wreckers... food for thought.]
Too bad we won't probably get that before S3 :(

[Fonnybone]

Ya but then some jerks will develop a technique to burst your tank on purpose.
There is no perfect way. That's why i can safely say LFS is still essentially a
computer game. Using exploits is not new, but in a game where time is important,
any advantage is legit for some.

A little story relating to this:
A few years ago i was heading to a friend and was kind of in a hurry,
i raced a yellow light and saw this Geo Metro doing the same behind.
I moved to the left lane and as the following light turned red i braked
but it was wet, so i had to threshold brake not to slide through the
intersection. Everything was textbook perfect, and i stopped just in time.

Then BANG, that stupid little teenager on hormone ran into me!! He was
mad at me, but when i got out and stared at him silently, he shut up and
started feeling small (people tell me i have an imposing presence, i can
scare people apparently). Anyways, i got friendly with his girl telling her
how dangerous her boyfriend was and that she should not stand for this
while she's in the car, hehe. Legally, he was blamed since he ran into me.
The lady on the phone just repeated "so he ran into your rear bumper ?
Ok, well then it's his fault." :thumb:

[Gunn]

Most of the time it has happened in key places, like the chicane in BL or the 90-degree turn 3 at SO town.These are precisely the types of places where you must be cautious approaching the braking zone. If you hit him, it's your fault, not his. :D He can brake as early as he likes, drive as slow as he likes, take an inefficient line, all three (keeping within the rules of course). Unless he is under blue flag conditions he doesn't need to worry about how fast the car behind him is, he can drive his own race.

In real racing, all drivers are at a level of skill (and track knowledge) that their braking points are similar enough in most cases to prevent incidents with cars that are too slow. But in real racing a very slow car may be still blue flagged (even though he is on the same lap as his pursuer) by track marshalls. This is a decision made by officials and can not be reproduced in a race sim without real-time human intervention.

On any given public race server you are likely to find varying levels of driving/racing skill, varying levels of track knowledge and sometimes greatly-varying setups amongst racers. Incidents as described above are less likey or uncommon in organised racing or league racing etc. I don't think its fair to condemn any unskilled racing on a public server, providing the driver can control the car in the first place. If they have access to the server (public) then they are likely to race. Coming across an early braker is no surprise at all on any public server, it would be the same in real life if any old Joe were allowed to show up and race. We can't black flag all of the unskilled racers and new guys. :p
I don't know why some racers take public servers so seriously, there are too many variables that can interfere. In my opinion this is why we see so many private servers online: many people use private servers for more serious, even, and organised racing.

[P5YcHoM4N]

It's always classed as the car at the backs fault. Even if the crash was because the driver in front was a moron.
One of my tutors in college was telling us about how his car got totaled.
He came up behind a Jeep Cherokee, jacked up and had a tow bar level with his rad.
They stopped at a roundabout, and started to pull away, when the Jeep then ground to a halt, the tutor had about half a second to try a break... crunch. Tow bar through the front of the car.

The reason the Jeep stopped was because the chick driver was having an argument with her boyfriend on the phone, and in rage put her foot down...
The tutor had to pick up the bill because "he should have given great breaking distance". :pillepall

[Hyperactive]

I don't think it is about people, newbies, being slow. They just don't know the car and track and therefore they have to brake all the time...

I just today had some FOX fun in BL1...I was driving behind some other guy trying to pass but his driving was actually quite clean even though 2 seconds slower... So in the chicane he drove so slowly that I catched him easily and thought about going past...he takes the corner out slower and leaves some space inside. I just nail the throttle and think about zooming past him. But then he moves back inside and I ram his back (managed to step on the brakes but not enough soon). Completely my fault. He spinned and I went to spectate. I wasn't trying anything desperate, the speed difference was just bigger he may have thought or... I actually find it quite fun to be behind some much slower driver who still has clean lines and makes no errors. Passing or trying it is just pure fun :)

I just should have been more careful.

[Lord_Verminaard]

These are precisely the types of places where you must be cautious approaching the braking zone. If you hit him, it's your fault, not his. :D He can brake as early as he likes, drive as slow as he likes, take an inefficient line, all three (keeping within the rules of course). Unless he is under blue flag conditions he doesn't need to worry about how fast the car behind him is, he can drive his own race.


Well perhaps I didnt explain myself very well. I had been following this guy for about 4 laps, and I knew that my tires were better off than his, and I think he knew it as well. At that point, I knew where his braking points were, and he deliberately slammed on the brakes full lock, and when I hit him, he took off while I spun into the wall. The time that it happened in BL on the chicane, it was another prick who kept saying he was the best racer in the world, well, I was all over his rear bumper for two laps, and he slams on the brakes on the last lap in the chicane, (a place where he hadnt hit the brakes the two laps prior, we were racing GTI's) and again, he goes flying ahead, I spin and crash.

It's pretty obvious when things like this happen. I know when there are new people on the track and sometimes they get in the way- it happens, and I've done it before too. It just bugs me that someone has to exploit a part of the game just so they dont come in 2nd place. I guess better damage modeling will help this out a little, as in a real race, if car A going 65 mph hits the back of car B who is going 20 mph (and braking hard) both cars are pretty much screwed. :P

Brendan

[Gunn]

You explained yourself well enough, but there's no way of knowing if he deliberately tried to brake early (a risky move anyway because you may be crashed off the track and your race ruined) therefore no fair way of imposing a black flag penalty. It isn't possible for the software to make judgement on people's motives. Perhaps he braked early because his tyres couldn't handle his usual braking point without locking? How can we truly know?

[frokki]

I actually find it quite fun to be behind some much slower driver who still has clean lines and makes no errors. Passing or trying it is just pure fun :)So true! It's really fun to pretend the fight much harder than it is. The slower guy has loads of fun too thinking that he/she does well and enjoys the race, even though you blast pass them in last turn of last lap :D

[NotAnIllusion]

Or maybe us FXR drivers just pretend ur oh so fast, finally letting you past on the last lap so u don't cry ;)



jk.. (?) :)

[Vendetta]

Im going to run out of fingers soon to count how many threads their are for different flag types. Anyway, yes i want black flags. Hopefully on LFS world it will record how many black flags a person has gotten. :thumb:

[ZeroR]

... Anyway, yes i want black flags. Hopefully on LFS world it will record how many black flags a person has gotten. :thumb:

i like this idea very much! :nod:

[Shotglass]

From a faster guys point of view, I still get surprised just HOW SLOW beginners go. Because I'm okay at LFS, it's hard to imagine just how rubbish some people are.

true ... a while ago somebody round here linked to a video of him driving to get some tips on how to improve and i was shocked by how bad he was
i allways assumed that people who buy a hardcore sim like lfs have a basic idea of how to take a corner ... what an apex is etc
that guy though ... he didnt even try to use half of the track width for his "lines" ... practically stopped in the corners ... an totally missed the point of accelerating out of a corner instead of pootling away behin the corner

anyway ... i sometimes get the feeling that the skilllevel of some people in lfs is even worse than the one on public roads (admittedly im kinda pissed right now after 2 guys deperately tried to make me crash into them at 2 consecutive (!) intersections ... so dont take this post too serious if i might sound harsh)

[Hyperactive]

Or maybe us FXR drivers just pretend ur oh so fast, finally letting you past on the last lap so u don't cry ;)

jk.. (?) :)

Nah :P

[Themage]

I dont know if there is but it would be nice if when some one crashes into u on a corner he would be black flagged.

[wheel4hummer]

I dont know if there is but it would be nice if when some one crashes into u on a corner he would be black flagged.

It's called a kick/ban.

[Gunn]

I dont know if there is but it would be nice if when some one crashes into u on a corner he would be black flagged.That is impossible to achieve fairly. A piece of software can not make accurate and fair calls about driver intent. Lag is also an issue. People braking hard and getting slammed into would cause the guy behind to be black flagged. Automatic black flags for car contact won't ever happen.

[tomylee]

I think it is possible by software to judge if somebody TRIED to break right or not. I have often the problem that somebody crashes be from behind but I can't figure out who it was!

+1

[SamH]

IIRC, the CRC group introduced a system that handled this in an attempt to reduce or stop wrecking on their server. I believe the system was programmed very well - as well as it could feasibly be done, anyway. It worked using InSim.

Unfortunately, it IS impossible for ANY program to determine whether the car that skids and crashes into a stationary car should be black-flagged, or the stationary car should be banned from the server for causing a road-block because he's a deliberate wrecker.

The system, as a result, caused quite a bit of upset among racers on the server and was eventually removed.

Nice theory, but there really is no substitute for human admin on a server :)

[XCNuse]

only black flag systems we need that is feasable, is cutting corners

..which.. even then, sometimes you have to (ei: aston cadet, if you get bumped slightly and have to cut through you'd get a black flag) so.. i guess even thats not possible :/

[tomylee]

But maybe a system which tell's you who did hit you!

[XCNuse]

lol, the many threads have come up of such a possible idea; you tell us exactly how, and we will prove you that its impossible ;) lol

which it is; if you search crash/wreck system and.. i cant think of what else you could use to search for, but they are out there, but i can promise you that we have thought of just about every possible incident that a computer wouldn't be able to recognize who caused the accident

[i30i3i3y]

Slightly off topic, can anyone explain how yellow flags work? I mean how does the system recognize a yellow flag and the driver that has lost control and caused it (I've seen some servers giving messages like 'RacerX has lost control' etc).

I have an idea about black flagging, but it depends on how yellow flags work.

My idea is,

If you're not causing a yellow flag
and you hit a guy who's not causing a yellow flag (infront of you)
which results in him causing a yellow flag
you get a black flag

[Hyperactive]

...
My idea is,

If you're not causing a yellow flag
and you hit a guy who's not causing a yellow flag (infront of you)
which results in him causing a yellow flag
you get a black flag

But it still may be the other guy's fault, or just a racing incident.

[XCNuse]

its only those oval servers (ei: [FM] oval racing) which has that rediculous insim mod which can be extremely annoying 99.99% of the time...

so dont worry about it; its only a mod that works through the game, its not actually the game saying it

[Becky Rose]

I want the black flag with the orange dot to be introduced... but only because of the other stuff it would need :). I can wait though.

[A.Fedorov]

what about Black Flag?

[zeugnimod]

what about Black Flag?

That is impossible to achieve fairly. A piece of software can not make accurate and fair calls about driver intent. Lag is also an issue. People braking hard and getting slammed into would cause the guy behind to be black flagged. Automatic black flags for car contact won't ever happen.

That about black flag. It was there, no need to bump. ;)

[Gimpster]

Corner cutting is easy to identify and its also easy to detect if the off was not intended. Simple rule is that an off requires a reduction in speed and throttle application. Do not slow then you get flagged for cutting. Do slow and you don't. Cut to many times and you get flaged. Cutting with a lift counts for 1/4 the value of a non lift. Set the threshold at 3 or so. Hell if ISI can program a working flag rule then it can be done here even with in/out sim.

[Falcon140]

+1 for idea

but -1 cause its imposible to do

[Christofire]

If computers could accurately make a call about who's fault a given accident/incident was then insurance companies would have it.

I'm guessing they don't, as it still requires solicitors and court cases to resolve some accidents. If the wealth of the insurance industry can't come up with it, I don't think it's possible.

[jtr99]

What about something like NR2003's "laps per incident" statistic? Obviously you sometimes got credited with an incident that was not your fault, but if after thousands of laps one guy has an LPI of 60 and another has an LPI of 5 then you know who is cleaner.

(For some people of course, the true measure is "incidents per lap" :)).

[duke_toaster]

I want the black flag with the orange dot to be introduced... but only because of the other stuff it would need :). I can wait though.

Yes, the meatball flag needs to be in LFS - and a server side option should be meatball==>spectate.

[Venus]

Hi,

I was wondering if you could implement a Black Flag system for hosts (acting as steward). the idea is basically meant to force cars that are too damaged to continue, to pit within 1-2 laps, or become a spectator. The biggest advantage is those that are acting as steward within the clean racing clubs rules, could also use it as ascribing penalties, that do not require kicking, or banning.

At the simplest level, it could act simply to force ppl to racing cleanly, and if they warrant kicking etc, then at least they know why, and might change thier behaviour.

Hope you do this

Thanks..

Venus

[SamH]

There's already effectively a black flag. Admins just type /spectate username. Replace username with the username of the person you want to send to spectate, and they find themselves instantly watching the race instead of driving in it. :)

[Gunn]

I think it would be useful to have an actual black flag button for hosts to press with a corresponding black flag message displayed. So; +1. However I also think it would be useful to have a whole range of race management options built in to LFS dedi software, and to avoid the chance of me harping on about it like I have been for a few years now, I'll promptly shut up.

[duke_toaster]

The idea is basically meant to force cars that are too damaged to continue

That is not the black flag.

Black flag is a penalty. Black flag with orange circle is what you are thinking about.

[Renku]

Black flagging (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=11587)
black flags? (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3024)
Automatic Black Flag (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=517)

[Bob Smith]

Thanks Renku, now we've just one thread on the matter. :)