Test Patch Z5 - online compatible (no VW)

[Scawen]

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

NOTE : THE VW SCIROCCO IS NOT INCLUDED


Hello Racers, here is a new Test Patch : Z5.

It is fully online compatible with version Z.
You can view hotlap replays made in version Z.

ABS brakes have been added to 6 cars (as a setup option) so for now you cannot upload hotlaps made in Z5.

Although the list of changes is short, there are a lot of internal changes and optimisations.
So you should probably keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z.


Changes in TEST PATCH Z5 :

New language included : Español Latino (still need to add a flag)
FIX : Crash on closing LFS from multiplayer while tyres displayed
Probable fix for shadow stretching bug on some graphics cards
Possible fix for an apparently random crash in D3D8.dll

Changes in TEST PATCH Z4 :

Attempted fix for polygon errors seen on some graphics cards
FIX : It was impossible to join an online race with a demo car

Changes in TEST PATCH Z3 :

Updated wheels on Formula BMW
Implemented ABS brakes in XFG / XRG / RB4 / FXO / XRT / FZ5
Improved wheel drawing system including rotating brake discs
Improved shadows - sharper and ambient shadow effect now included
InSim : New packets to start / search replays and take screenshots
FIX : Player name was wrong in entry screen on entry or after replay
FIX : Added checks to prevent guests joining with no user name or ID
FIX : OOS starting race after joining autocross host in entry screen


DOWNLOADS :

PATCH Z to Z5 (Version Z must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_Z_TO_Z5.exe (1.6 MB)

[510N3D]

cheers Scawen. You're on fire dude :smileypul

[NotAnIllusion]

I couldn't reproduce either of the crashes, but I'll see if I can break this patch *EG* :thumbsup:

[EliteAti]

Thanks Scavier. Great Job :thumb:

[imthebestracerthereis]

Yippie :thumb:

[Stiggie]

You guys really are on fire indeed, great job :thumb:

[cjb1118]

Thanks :).

[richukss]

Great, thanks:thumb:

[Jamesisinthehouse12]

Great job guys! :thumb:
Still no VW Sirocco eh?
haha, you really want to leave the suspense hanging don't you? :D

[[UKR] Race King]

Still got this shadow problem.

[Flame CZE]

Still no VW Sirocco eh?
Still no Scirocco, eh.
NOTE : THE VW SCIROCCO IS NOT INCLUDED


Race King;1006823']Still got this shadow problem.
This problem has been there since ages. It was in the previuous versions too.

[Whiskey]

Great job guys! :thumb:
Still no VW Sirocco eh?
haha, you really want to leave the suspense hanging don't you? :D

Flame CZE: I think his problem is that he don't read that the Scirocco is releasing the December 19th

[XmaX]

Flame CZE: I think his problem is that he don't read that the Scirocco is releasing the December 19th

Not on 19th December, in the week which ends on the 19th

[Wiciu1996]

Big THX Scawen, good work!

Now waiting to VWS

[JOZA-SB]

Thanks :thumb::thumb:

[John5200]

Flame CZE: I think his problem is that he don't read that the Scirocco is releasing the December 19th
the FBM should be released shortly before crismas but the testpatches where from the first dezember week. still he released the y patch shortly before crismas:shrug:

[GeForz]

FIX : Crash on closing LFS from multiplayer while tyres displayed

That was no multiplayer related bug. Happened in singleplayer, too ;)

[AndroidXP]

I could only reproduce it in MP, though...

[KassadGLA]

A lot of thanks, i will try it. Very great job :thumb:

[rc10racer]

Updated to Z5 and got a gfx/shadow problem.

ATI X2 4850 Crossfire
8.12 driver version

[Zyrez]

thanks again scawen.. had the problem with lfs crashing while tires showed up.

[wheel4hummer]

I don't mean to nitpick, but there are some things with the ABS and traction control that is a little odd. First is something that has bothered me for a while (as long as the FZ5 has had TC), and is that the traction control minimum speed goes by the actual speed of the car, as opposed to the wheelspeed of the drivewheels. I think the traction control minimum speed on the FZ5 should be measured at the wheels as opposed to the actual speed of the car. Also, I think the ignition should be cut instead of the throttle being reduced. Unless the FZ5 is supposed to have a "drive by wire" throttle, in which case nevermind.

The ABS also seems to have a minimum speed around 5m/s. I'm not sure how the ABS in LFS works. But in real life, isn't the wheelspeed of all the wheels compared to eachother, and the ABS system tries to keep the wheelspeeds equal? This would make it unnecessary to have a minimum speed for the ABS. Although maybe a minimum speed of 0.5m/s or so would be required.

[burnsy1882]

Scawen,
I would like to request that an InSim Player flag be added for the ABS. This would be nice for leagues to use to restrict whether the use of ABS is allowed or not.
Quoted again. This is a must for leagues to be able to control.

[Byku]

Updated to Z5 and got a gfx/shadow problem.

ATI X2 4850 Crossfire
8.12 driver version

Maybe try disable cf mode. I've got single HD4870 with 8.12 drivers and no shadow problem.

[Loko VEN]

Thx Scawen. I donwload the test patch. I think it´s good.

One question. Why the training isn´t in spanish?

I dont have a good english but I will help with that coz I can understand english.

Sorry for my bad english. :scratchch

[TimberBunny]

There may be a potential problem with the Z-Patches.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a342/TimberBunny/ErrorBoot.png

Here, you see many members getting kicked from the server at once, but not all. I have no confirmation whether any in particular have the Z patch, but it's happened quite often since the release of Z4, and more often since Z5's release.

I don't know what other info i'm capable of providing other than i'm not on Z4+, and i don't get booted.

[Zipppy]

got multiple instances of the same bug. as far as i know, the server is a Z2 Dedi server. I do not know if they updated it to Z3 Dedi.

[Zyrez]

Yes, what roadrunner said (and zippy). Yesterday half the server lost connection too. Dont know what it is, but it started after the new patch.

[Luke.S]

got multiple instances of the same bug. as far as i know, the server is a Z2 Dedi server. I do not know if they updated it to Z3 Dedi.

I got that with Z4 on one of our servers. So it isn't server side then.

[BoyGTA]

Yes, yesterday I was at TC and we losed connection after patch.. :shrug:

Lets test this new one..

[mbutcher]

The new patch: Z5 seems to have fixed that. I lost connection when I had Z4 now I have Z5 everyone else loses conn.

Mbutcher / Lampshade

[Scawen]

Updated to Z5 and got a gfx/shadow problem.

ATI X2 4850 Crossfire
8.12 driver versionThanks, but what did you do to make the shadow edges go black? I guess they are ok the first time you see the shadow? And then what do you need to do to make that problem appear? Something like clicking on another program and coming back to LFS, or going full screen, etc... or is it like this all the time no matter what you do?

Thx Scawen. I donwload the test patch. I think it´s good.

One question. Why the training isn´t in spanish?

I dont have a good english but I will help with that coz I can understand english.

Sorry for my bad english. :scratchchThat is because Latino has not been full implemented, so LFS does not yet recognise it, to use Castellano as the backup language.

got multiple instances of the same bug. as far as i know, the server is a Z2 Dedi server. I do not know if they updated it to Z3 Dedi.OK, this setup OOS thing, I'll look into how that can be happening. I guess it must be something to do with the ABS option.

[John5200]

got multiple instances of the same bug. as far as i know, the server is a Z2 Dedi server. I do not know if they updated it to Z3 Dedi.
lolz im in the first pic :S

[dougie-lampkin]

DX8 crash seems to be gone for me. I've been fiddling with the LX4 at FE6R, where it usually crashes for me, and all's been well so far, even messing with overlays and pitting and speccing. Good job :thumb:

[Luke.S]

Maybe it would stop happening if Z5 was auto download.

[Flame CZE]

But this is test patch so it's up to everyone if they will download it or not. Maybe it would be fine later in offical patch.

[_Mateusz_]

I have found small bug in LX4, im have patch Z5

[Zipppy]

It could be that, Luke. It could be due to people not having the same version.

EDIT: Mateusz, that bug is known, and it has been around since the test patches.

[Flame CZE]

Already known, Scawen made a note :)

[510N3D]

I have found small bug in LX4, im have patch Z5

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1005619#post1005619

Already been reported. :)

[GTA_Racer07]

euh don't know where to psot this but soon i buy s2 thing and i'm wondering: does the VW Scirroco gonna have a rally cross setup too? so that its possible to drive rally with it?

[AndroidXP]

I'm pretty sure it won't be restricted to just one setup, so rallycross should definitely be possible.

[Dmt]

Sorry Scawen, but this VW and ABS are only things you improved with half of year? :schwitz:

[SamH]

Scawen: Done some testing.. no crashes here either :thumb:

[hda]

Sorry Scawen, but this VW and ABS are only things you improved with half of year? :schwitz:
read the forum before asking silly questions

[Flotch]

Sorry Scawen, but this VW and ABS are only things you improved with half of year? :schwitz:
no-one says they give all they have at each patch :tilt:

[danthebangerboy]

I have had a small graphical bug, this never happened n the z4 patch. Unfortunately, i forgot to print screen and i havent been able to make it do it again.

Basically, i clicked on another program (by hitting windows key) and on returning to lfs, all the graphics had gone extra blurry.

I quit lfs and restarted and still all blurry.

I opened up ATI control panel, moved a slider up a notch and then moved it back to where it was again, clicked apply, restarted LFS and it was fine again.

I was in an xrt on blackwood bl carpark.

These are my gfx card details;

Manufacturer : ATI Technologies Inc
Model : ATI Radeon HD 2600 Series
Bus Type : AGP
Total Memory : 512 MB
Texture Memory : 628 MB
Processor : ATI Radeon Graphics Processor AGP (0x9587)
Converter : Internal DAC(400MHz)
Refresh Rate (min/max) : 56/85 Hz

Driver Details;

Driver Provider: ATI Technologies inc
Driver Date: 20/08/2008
Driver Version: 8.530.0.0

I don't know if that is any help but i guess more info is better than not enough info.

[Michalxo]

Thank you guys!
My FZR bug from Z4 has dissapeard.
Dunno how to separate only mine post...
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1005888#post1005888

[AndroidXP]

I have had a small graphical bug, this never happened n the z4 patch. Unfortunately, i forgot to print screen and i havent been able to make it do it again.My guess is that this was more of a bug with the ATI control panel / GFX driver that suddenly decided your game should run at the maximum MIP bias setting :shrug:

[rc10racer]

Thanks, but what did you do to make the shadow edges go black? I guess they are ok the first time you see the shadow? And then what do you need to do to make that problem appear? Something like clicking on another program and coming back to LFS, or going full screen, etc... or is it like this all the time no matter what you do?

Updated to Z5 when i saw this thread, opened lfs up and jumped onto a combo and just spotted that. Only managed to fix it by pitting in and press V to jump around the views then it disappeared for some reason.

I updated from Z3 to Z5 so it could be something todo with that but not sure.

Edit: ^^^ that above did not solve it... came back after i jumped on lfs again, after doing some testing i know it is down to enableing crossfire with lfs, it only started with Z5 so it only looks like to solve it i have to disable crossfire when running lfs.

Can anyone else who runs x2 4850 with driver version 8.12 in crossfire mode tell me if they run into this problem aswell plz?

Edit 2: Just to give some more info of this the shadows are more of flashing issue not fixed, little video to see whats wrong.

[XmaX]

Maybe add a rev limiter to next Test Patch pls ? :D
Nice done Scawen

[GeForz]

I could only reproduce it in MP, though...

I had it everytime when alt+f4'ing in the 3 seconds after the map appeared ;o
Even in singleplayer. But as it it's fixed now... :thumb:

[AndroidXP]

Maybe add a rev limiter to next Test Patch pls ? :D
Nice done Scawen
Every car in LFS has a rev limiter at the moment...

[Zipppy]

Every car in LFS has a rev limiter at the moment...
I even have an application that "Bounces" the revs at certain RPM.

[XmaX]

yeah you know that i mein, maybe you can explain it. I mean that the rpm goes down and up ... ;)

Sorrs for my bad english

[Whiskey]

As Zipppy said, there is an aplication called LfsRevLimiter could do that at any rpm. The only problem is that sometimes the engine dont switch on again. But it makes a realistic sound in each car

[chanoman315]

New language included : Español Latino (still need to add a flag)

Interesting, may i know who is the translator?

[Flame CZE]

Interesting, may i know who is the translator?
Neto_r :)

[chanoman315]

Neto_r :)oh gosh :doh: ... i dont know his english... let me see the patch, and i think español latino isnt gonna be fair for whole latinamerica, since everyone has different slangs or that things...

[Scawen]

There is a special thread to discuss the Latino translation :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=51392

[91mason91]

Iv had no problems with Z3,4 or 5.

Its all working fine except the Lx4 bug thats already been reported.

Thanks for the patches :thumb:

[Bose321]

When i view from the wheels camera, i can't see the rims. Sorry if it's been reported already. my specs are in my signature. and when im in fullscreen, only in fullscreen, the shadows look, well, not like shadows. Altough when i printscreen it looks normall. And i sometimes can't press escape for some reason.

[Riders Motion]

I still get the fuzzy shadows on this patch.

Nvidia 7600GT

[Jimmy_Lemon]

Hello there, i was just taking a picture with the new patch, (see picture 1) when i then Shift F4'd the game to save it to take another, then i maximised it again, then i got some weird under car neons appear lol.. or etleast it looks like it, (see picture 2)

allso when your driving in chase view the shadows look jaggid as if the car has millions of dents in it or somthing lol

Graphs cards:

Two 4870X2's running in Crossfire X
Drivers ATI cat 8.12's

but other than the random shadow thingy, its all iv spotted so far :)

[alex_du_77]

When I have a rear collision with the LX4 the number plate goes through the wheel.

[Flame CZE]

When I have a rear collision with the LX4 the plate number goes through the wheel.
Already reported many times.

[alex_du_77]

Already reported many times.

I don't think the collision bug is reported

[pearcy_2k7]

Right , just to report on the ABS thing, with the XRT at blackwood, its made me a second quicker per lap, i went from 1.24.6 to 1.23.6, now thats a serious amount of time to gain :\

[ATHome]

He is right, haven't seen it reported, but I think it's due to the damage model at the moment, because the RB4 exhaust is still sticking out of the car after a crash :shrug:

[AndroidXP]

When i view from the wheels camera, i can't see the rims. Sorry if it's been reported already.Reported many times already and is not a bug to begin with. The rims were never visible before and still aren't. The only difference is that the brake disc is now gone, too.

Seriously why does this matter to people so much (judging from the amount of reports of this)? You're driving in a view that magically makes the car body transparent, ffs. :tilt:

[Maix]

Framerate was decreased by about 10fps with the patch on my system. :( is that common?? I'm using a laptop with core 2 duo T8100 (2,1ghz) and nvidia gforce 8400M GS... I know that graphic card is no high end gaming device but it was working well with LFS until now...now it's slightly stuttering in some situations :(

[Flame CZE]

Framerate was decreased by about 10fps with the patch on my system. :( is that common?? I'm using a laptop with core 2 duo T8100 (2,1ghz) and nvidia gforce 8400M GS... I know that graphic card is no high end gaming device but it was working well with LFS until now...now it's slightly stuttering in some situations :(
It can be because of the new shadows. FPS decreased at me too.

[danthebangerboy]

I don't think the collision bug is reported

Its done that with the LX4 for as long as i have had lfs, well it has for me, just like if you get the back of an XFG smashed then the window wiper stays where it would originally be.

He is right, haven't seen it reported, but I think it's due to the damage model at the moment, because the RB4 exhaust is still sticking out of the car after a crash :shrug:

RB4 exhaust thing is also a well old issue, has always been that way as far as i know.

[shiny_red_cobra]

Some shadows end abruptly at BL car park.

[Maix]

It can be because of the new shadows. FPS decreased at me too.

well, the new shadows are not worth 10fps less in my opinion. (Didn't even notice the difference - are there any screenshots that show the difference btw?)

[wheel4hummer]

Right , just to report on the ABS thing, with the XRT at blackwood, its made me a second quicker per lap, i went from 1.24.6 to 1.23.6, now thats a serious amount of time to gain :\

That just means you suck at cadence braking. :razz: Anyway, it seems like ABS will make LFS more competitive.

[Scawen]

I still get the fuzzy shadows on this patch.

Nvidia 7600GTI'm not sure what you mean, please can you post a screen shot?

Hello there, i was just taking a picture with the new patch, (see picture 1) when i then Shift F4'd the game to save it to take another, then i maximised it again, then i got some weird under car neons appear lol.. or etleast it looks like it, (see picture 2)

allso when your driving in chase view the shadows look jaggid as if the car has millions of dents in it or somthing lol

Graphs cards:

Two 4870X2's running in Crossfire X
Drivers ATI cat 8.12'sCan you make the shadows go wrong like that every time?

If so, what is the exact sequence of keys you use? LFS is supposed to detect all cases where dynamic shadows can be corrupted, but still doesn't seem to notice in some cases. I think it depends on your computer as well but anyway, I'd like to know exactly how you can create that bug, if you can reproduce it reliably.

[Flame CZE]

well, the new shadows are not worth 10fps less in my opinion. (Didn't even notice the difference - are there any screenshots that show the difference btw?)
Here you are :)

[kamo2000]

Don't know if it's related with this patch but i had a crash few minutes ago:

It happend just after quali session init.

[rc10racer]

Hello there, i was just taking a picture with the new patch, (see picture 1) when i then Shift F4'd the game to save it to take another, then i maximised it again, then i got some weird under car neons appear lol.. or etleast it looks like it, (see picture 2)

allso when your driving in chase view the shadows look jaggid as if the car has millions of dents in it or somthing lol

Graphs cards:

Two 4870X2's running in Crossfire X
Drivers ATI cat 8.12's

but other than the random shadow thingy, its all iv spotted so far :)

I have the same problem but with the oil effect around the shadow, i traced it to being when crossfire is enabled when playing lfs, try disabling then report back to see if it worked because i think it is down to that.

[burnsy1882]

Just had a LFS crash with Z5. Was spectating a racer with the F9 display showing and went to tab to another, and LFS crashes:
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: LFS.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 49451a54
Fault Module Name: d3d8.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.0.6000.16386
Fault Module Timestamp: 4549bcbf
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00045bd7
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: eb67
Additional Information 2: e67445a67aa3c06fb52c4c1d1e07154f
Additional Information 3: 8679
Additional Information 4: b9f17819de6340eb733f2c63884e0e0b

Read our privacy statement:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=50163&clcid=0x0409

[Shotglass]

I think the traction control minimum speed on the FZ5 should be measured at the wheels as opposed to the actual speed of the car.

it is which is why tc doesnt work if you lock your front wheels or if you have a 4 million hp bf1 with 4wd

The ABS also seems to have a minimum speed around 5m/s.

just like a real abs

[Stang70Fastback]

Looking at the new VW in the CMX Viewer, I just wanted to point out that I think the plastic cover over the instrument panel seems overly reflective. Maybe it's not nearly that bad in the game, but in the viewer, it's really too shiny IMO.

[pearcy_2k7]

That just means you suck at cadence braking. :razz: Anyway, it seems like ABS will make LFS more competitive.

It won't make it more competative, you obviously havn't tested it, you can get stability under braking but also up the brake force by 200 or more so you can brake later but you can also carry the brakes into the corner.

[de Souza]

The shadow extensions seem to be fixed for me. :thumb:

[wheel4hummer]

it is which is why tc doesnt work if you lock your front wheels or if you have a 4 million hp bf1 with 4wd

OH, it's measured at the non-drive wheels in LFS? Okay, that would make sense then. But the traction control in my car in real life doesn't react at all similarly to traction control in LFS.


just like a real abs
But then how does the ABS system know what the true speed of the car is? Also, if all four wheels lock up then can't ABS not do anything about it?

Or, is it that not all four wheels will ever lock up at the same time? Like, the front wheels will always lock up before the rears no matter what, so the ABS is already taking braking power away from the front wheels before the rear wheels begin to lock up? Is that how it works? The minimum speed on my car seems to be lower then it is in LFS if that is the case. Next time it snows I'll test this, and see where the cut-off point is.

It won't make it more competative, you obviously havn't tested it, you can get stability under braking but also up the brake force by 200 or more so you can brake later but you can also carry the brakes into the corner.

Whatever you say. Not like it really matters anyway. It's not unfair if everyone can choose to use it.

---

BTW, the shadows look weird on my computer.

[pearcy_2k7]

Im not too bothereed about people using it, after all its put in there to be used, but i think servers locking it should be pretty essential.

[Danke]

Any chance of taking ABS away from the FXO? It might be a quick and dirty way to even up the TBOs.

[Sir moi 407]

GC: HD3850 512MB
The shadows are bad here too:shrug:

[Vain]

Next time it snows I'll test this, and see where the cut-off point is.Modern implementations of ABS can estimate the surface by judging the way the tyres behave and estimate the surface. This information is used to switch to different modes of operation. The ABS in modern vehicle will behave differently on snow than on dry tarmac.
A good estimate for the lowest operation speed of ABS is an estimated free rolling velocity of 1 m/s.
Notice that ABS doesn't just unblock the wheels and attempts to approach the braking pressure closest to locking. It tries to estimate the longitudinal slippage of the tyre and achieve 80-90% of best deceleration so that transversal slipping caused by steering inputs will not immediately lock the tyres and the vehicle remains maneuverable.

ABS doesn't optimise braking distance. It allows vehicle maneuverability under braking.

Vain

[SRR Marty]

Any chance of taking ABS away from the FXO? It might be a quick and dirty way to even up the TBOs.

+1 from me for that

[Inouva]

Espaniol Latino ? , i dont get it , what is the diference within Castellano and spanish

[AndroidXP]

Any chance of taking ABS away from the FXO? It might be a quick and dirty way to even up the TBOs.
+1 from me for that
That would be a completely artificial and unpredictable way of balancing. Why not use the handicap system that was put there exactly for balancing reasons?

[J@tko]

Espaniol Latino ? , i dont get it , what is the diference within Castellano and spanish
Castellano is Spanish Spanish and Latin Spanish is Latin American Spanish :shrug:

[Inouva]

Castellano is Spanish Spanish and Latin Spanish is Latin American Spanish :shrug:


In all latino america es almost the same Language , only change a few words and spells , but i dont get it , if latino america has his own language , argentina should have their own like i say A few test patch before

Because Castellano from spain and castellano from argentina they are NOT the same language

And yes i know the Castellano come from castilla is in spain , but i just feel a little Odd , thinking now dev put the NEW lanaguage for Latino americans...

And i dont wanna argue this theme

Is just my point of view

But Whatever , Thx for the patch

[Wiciu1996]

Mr Scawen, whether there is a chance the emergence of Scirocco in the next test patch?

[Ovidiu23]

Scirocco will be out Friday, stop asking please.

[dougie-lampkin]

Just noticed, ghey shadows here too. 9800GTX :(

[Wiciu1996]

Sorry, half of poverty that 1 time to ask; /

[Stang70Fastback]

These patches always come out JUUUUUST as I'm going home for winter break for a month. I'm leaving on the 19th... godammit, lol. I just hope I get to try the darned thing before I leave all my equipment for a month.

[Scawen]

In all latino america es almost the same Language , only change a few words and spells , but i dont get it , if latino america has his own language , argentina should have their own like i say A few test patch before

Because Castellano from spain and castellano from argentina they are NOT the same language

And yes i know the Castellano come from castilla is in spain , but i just feel a little Odd , thinking now dev put the NEW lanaguage for Latino americans...

And i dont wanna argue this theme

Is just my point of view

But Whatever , Thx for the patchThere is a special thread for discussion of Latino.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=51392

The Latino translator was talking to Victor and I think he said that the American Spanish was generally quite different from European Spanish so it was worth doing a Latino translation.

How about trying it out and seeing if it is true, is it more like your own version of Spanish? Or do we really need a different Spanish for every country that speaks Spanish? I was under the impression that there was a general similarity between the Latino versions of Spanish.

Anyway please do discuss it on that thread. It's a test patch and that translation is there... to be tested... and discussed! :)

[alex_du_77]

I found a bug, but I don't know if it's an old bug or if it is introduced with Z5.

Cars shadows doesn't display from interior view

EDIT : bug not appear in custom view mode but only with LX4 / 6 and MRT :shrug:

[Anzeee]

When this "OOS-Set" kicks will be removed, or when we wont be kicked for it anymore (i am sorry if it was answered anywhere already) :shrug:?

OOS-Set kick:
http://www.shrani.si/f/i/Nj/Mdz970l/oos-set.jpg

[NightShift]

Since nobody appears to have asked it before, this may be a dumb question, but I couldn't figure out why there are no Z1 and Z2 mentioned in the Changelog?

[J@tko]

Since nobody appears to have asked it before, this may be a dumb question, but I couldn't figure out why there are no Z1 and Z2 mentioned in the Changelog?
Because they never existed.....

Dunno why but meh :tilt:

[Flame CZE]

Since nobody appears to have asked it before, this may be a dumb question, but I couldn't figure out why there are no Z1 and Z2 mentioned in the Changelog?
Because no Z1 or Z2 were developed. Z2+Z3 were host updates.

[Shotglass]

OH, it's measured at the non-drive wheels in LFS?

how else would you get something to compare the slip of the driven wheels against?

Okay, that would make sense then. But the traction control in my car in real life doesn't react at all similarly to traction control in LFS.

that might have something to do with the fact that you dont drive a bmw 06 f1

But then how does the ABS system know what the true speed of the car is?

how about sliding window mean values? if the car was traveling at 50kmh a second earlier and the driver stomped on the brakes the reason that the wheel speed has dropped to 0 usually indicates that the wheels have locked and not that the car magically came to a halt

Also, if all four wheels lock up then can't ABS not do anything about it?

10 if locked & mean(last 100 milliseconds) > 6kmh
20 then
30 decrease brake pressure
40 if wheel speed > 0
50 incease brake presure
60 end if
70 end if
80 goto 10

at least thats my first instinct of how to do it... not sure how it actually works but its probably similar

although im still surprised that the abs on a car which looks as 80/early90ish as the xrt has more than one channel (ie doesnt apply the same reduction in brake pressure to all 4 wheels)

[Shadowww]

Any chance of taking ABS away from the FXO? It might be a quick and dirty way to even up the TBOs.
In any ABS-enabled car: Garage > Brakes > ABS > Off.

[chanoman315]

, if latino america has his own language , argentina should have their own like i say A few test patch before

NO! you're not more special than any other latinamerica country.. get that?

[pasibrzuch]

Modern implementations of ABS can estimate the surface by judging the way the tyres behave and estimate the surface. This information is used to switch to different modes of operation. The ABS in modern vehicle will behave differently on snow than on dry tarmac.
A good estimate for the lowest operation speed of ABS is an estimated free rolling velocity of 1 m/s.
Notice that ABS doesn't just unblock the wheels and attempts to approach the braking pressure closest to locking. It tries to estimate the longitudinal slippage of the tyre and achieve 80-90% of best deceleration so that transversal slipping caused by steering inputs will not immediately lock the tyres and the vehicle remains maneuverable.

ABS doesn't optimise braking distance. It allows vehicle maneuverability under braking.

Vain
Very useful and entertaining info here, Vain :thumbsup:

Although I have theory that ABS may shorten braking distance sometimes because it use, like Vain said, '80-90% of best deceleration' for all 4 wheels, while with treshold braking we play mainly with front tires grip. In road cars brakeforce distribution goes mostly to front wheels, unless it has some tricky EBD (since ~5 yrs or so).

[andRo.]

Very nice job LFS developers...You keep improving LFS and putting it 1 step closer to the real life. Because of you, I have a feeling that I will never stop playing this game. :D Won't download this test patch, I better wait until the Scirocco will be included, because I'm too lazy to make the backup folder etc., and the Scirocco is so close. Really love the idea with the ABS brakes. :)

[nesrulz]

Right , just to report on the ABS thing, with the XRT at blackwood, its made me a second quicker per lap, i went from 1.24.6 to 1.23.6, now thats a serious amount of time to gain :\

:jawdrop:

[Karolis[Lt]]

Very nice job LFS developers...You keep improving LFS and putting it 1 step closer to the real life. Because of you, I have a feeling that I will never stop playing this game. :D Won't download this test patch, I better wait until the Scirocco will be included, because I'm too lazy to make the backup folder etc., and the Scirocco is so close. Really love the idea with the ABS brakes. :)

Copy your main lfs folder and do testings in that copied lfs :) Not so hard :P

I'll test patches tomorrow :D

[Hoshimodo]

Someone mentioned problems with a 7600gt card a short while ago. I've got the same gpu an the shadows are displaying fine for me, so it's maybe not a gpu related bug

[NightShift]

Z2+Z3 were host updates.

If Z3 was simply a host update, I would have expected the first test patch to be Z4, though :scratchch

[Mp3 Astra]

If Z3 was simply a host update, I would have expected the first test patch to be Z4, though :scratchch

He means Z1 and 2, methinks.

[Feffe85]

If Z3 was simply a host update, I would have expected the first test patch to be Z4, though :scratchch


*duuh* it was

/Changes in Patch Z4 :
---------------------
Attempted fix for polygon errors seen on some graphics cards
FIX : It was impossible to join an online race with a demo car

Changes in Patch Z3 :
---------------------
Updated wheels on Formula BMW
Implemented ABS brakes in XFG / XRG / RB4 / FXO / XRT / FZ5
Improved wheel drawing system including rotating brake discs
Improved shadows - sharper and ambient shadow effect now included
InSim : New packets to start / search replays and take screenshots
FIX : Player name was wrong in entry screen on entry or after replay
FIX : Added checks to prevent guests joining with no user name or ID
FIX : OOS starting race after joining autocross host in entry screen

[gohfeld23]

I cant seem to figure out if this is related to LFS or nVidia drivers but here it goes.
With the new patches, I'm unable to remove flickering and aliasing no matter what I try; forced through driver, LFS, various combinations of both, neither etc.
There is a visable difference between settings, however the result is still close to unplayable.
My hardware:
GPU-nvidia 8800GT
CPU-E8400
4Gb Ram

System is running XP pro and all hardware has been tested for hardware errors and is in optimal condition.

I'll revert to older drivers tonight but I'm not experiencing issues with other games in DX8 or DX9 whatsoever. I'm actually experiencing better rendering and higher FPS in Crysis, Cod4 as well as other titles.

Anyone else having issues with AA and AF?

[Danke]

In any ABS-enabled car: Garage > Brakes > ABS > Off.

I'll be sure to ask all the FXO drivers I'm racing against to do that.

[ADOLF1612]

Mr. Scawen, Seriously Thanks, at least here the shadow bug is solved (but i will keep testing) now i can breath again:schwitz:, Sr, really thanks:):thumb:.

PD: looking forward to december 19th, that´s an amazing job the one that you´re doing there, very cool updates, and allways taking our breaths with them :).

Adolfo Herrera.

[Anzeee]

I'll be sure to ask all the FXO drivers I'm racing against to do that.
That's why it would be good if servers was able to force ABS on or off. People are different. Some are racing better without ABS than some people will all possible driving aids. I mean, it's stupid to take ABS off for all players, just becouse some players like racing without ABS more :really: .

[Danke]

I agree it would be nice to force ABS (and TC for that matter) off at the server level.

What I was asking for though, was that the FXO not even have the option of ABS to balance it with the XRT and RB4. I admit this is artificial balancing, but there are plenty of real world examples of that in real-life multiple make sports car series.

Having said all that, I've realized that even if ABS was taken away from the FXO, people who still wanted ABS on it could just use Z5 instead of 0.6A. So to sum it all up, nevermind. :tilt:

[NightShift]

So weird! After switching to Z5 my car doesn't shake as much as it did in plain Z. I switched a couple times between Z5 and Z to make sure.

E.g. XFG on AS7, the rumblepad in first screenshot used to make the whole car shake, now it hardly moves. My view settings are displayed in the second attachment.

[Specht77]

So weird! After switching to Z5 my car doesn't shake as much as it did in plain Z. I switched a couple times between Z5 and Z to make sure.

E.g. XFG on AS7, the rumblepad in first screenshot used to make the whole car shake, now it hardly moves. My view settings are displayed in the second attachment.

yeah, I noticed too that the moviments of the camera are now "softer"

(sorry for bad english)

[Austin31287]

Hi all i just wounder have they done somthing with the gfx engine becuz on my system it look better and when i am playing i can have a full grid and all on high witch i could not do before and even with low fps it dont seeem to be laggy or jumpy any 1 eles notice this :tilt:

Maby the patchs have fixed this

yes i meant like the guy above me

thnx devs

[JasonJ]

Hi all i just wounder have they done somthing with the gfx engine becuz on my system it look better and when i am playing i can have a full grid and all on high witch i could not do before and even with low fps it dont seeem to be laggy or jumpy any 1 eles notice this :tilt:

Maby the patchs have fixed this

yes i meant like the guy above me

thnx devs
snip

Although the list of changes is short, there are a lot of internal changes and optimisations.

[Racer556]

Scawen:
IMHO the ambient shadow is too squarey, or maybe too sharp. Perhaps you'd like to take a look at it :)
My suggestion would be making it softer and darker... but ofcourse, that's just me.

Cheers for the patch!

[Mrwei]

ABS??

my god

[Stiggie]

I'm also having some FPS issues (80-100 to 60-70 because of the new shadows. But other then that it's all fine.

[Töki (HUN)]

ABS??

my god

Go and troll somewhere else...

[mobu]

So weird! After switching to Z5 my car doesn't shake as much as it did in plain Z. I switched a couple times between Z5 and Z to make sure.

E.g. XFG on AS7, the rumblepad in first screenshot used to make the whole car shake, now it hardly moves.

I have also noticed this. Driving on South City now feels much less bumpy both concerning the shaking of the cockpit view and the force feedback.

I wonder if this is an intentional change or it is a side effect of one of the many internal changes announced for this patch...

/Morten

[Animanera]

Fantastic !
Kunos only works over you. ;)
Good Job. :thumb:

[Velociround]

yeah, I noticed too that the movements of the camera are now "softer"

(softer is correct, moviments is incorrect)
I noticed it too, and I like this "new camera feature" more :thumb:

[T-RonX]

The shadow at the Westhill pit lane is pretty messed up if you set weather to Cloudy Afternoon.

Also the car shadow is displayed on top of the garage instead of under the car, but I think that bug was already reported.

I'm using a ATi Radeon X1800 XT on XP x64 SP2 with Catalyst 8.4

[Velociround]

The shadow at the Westhill pit lane is pretty messed up if you set weather to Cloudy Afternoon.

Also the car shadow is displayed on top of the garage instead of under the car, but I think that bug was already reported.

I'm using a ATi Radeon X1800 XT on XP x64 SP2 with Catalyst 8.4

As far as I know, It's always been like that :scratchch

[amp88]

I don't know if they've been reported before but I'm having problems with strange flickering shapes around the cars.

Windows Vista Home Premium 32 bit
ATi Radeon HD3870x2
Catalyst 8.11

edit: Just skimmed the rest of the thread and noticed it's been reported before. To add some more information I didn't alt+tab out of LFS, I didn't shift+F4 and the problem happens as soon as I leave the pits. My card is a crossfire implementation, I suppose, but I've never had this problem before in LFS. I'm also running a dual monitor setup (but LFS only runs on my primary monitor).

edit2: Just updated drivers to 8.12 and having the exact same issue.

[Shadowww]

w0w, Shadowww bug is fixed now. NV 8400M GS 512M.

[510N3D]

ABS brakes have been added to 6 cars (as a setup option) so for now you cannot upload hotlaps made in Z5.


So if i understand you correctly, once the patch is completed we are able to upload hotlaps again (even hotlaps done with version Z5)?

[Scawen]

To add some more information I didn't alt+tab out of LFS, I didn't shift+F4 and the problem happens as soon as I leave the pits. My card is a crossfire implementation, I suppose, but I've never had this problem before in LFS. I'm also running a dual monitor setup (but LFS only runs on my primary monitor)Thank you for that extra information. Please watch out for any new test patches and see if I've tried to fix that bug, if so let me know if we have failure or success!

I can see clearly the reported "shadow outline" bug in the first screen shot, but no problem in the second one? And when you say "flickering" is it flickering fast? Or does it stay one way for a while then change every now and then?

So if i understand you correctly, once the patch is completed we are able to upload hotlaps again (even hotlaps done with version Z5)?No, I think you are trying to read too much into what I said. I only made a vague statement because I do not know when or if Z3 / Z4 / Z5 hotlaps will be uploadable. For example, if the ABS implementation changes, then hotlaps with test patches up to that point would never be uploadable. We expect to make hotlaps uploadable when we have a version that is stable and we are happy with.

[510N3D]

No, I think you are trying to read too much into what I said. I only made a vague statement because I do not know when or if Z3 / Z4 / Z5 hotlaps will be uploadable. For example, if the ABS implementation changes, then hotlaps with test patches up to that point would never be uploadable. We expect to make hotlaps uploadable when we have a version that is stable and we are happy with.

Oh ok so just like you're always doing it (just too bad i have forgotten about that while starting to hotlap :doh:). Just wanted to be sure. Besides that, i did a hotlap with an FZR which is not affected by the ABS afaik. Would it be possible in any way to only exclude those cars affected by ABS? :bowdown: ;)

(or am i missing something else here?)

[Heiko1]

Got a quest :thumb:

Does the Scirocco got the 'DSG' gearbox? would be rly great :)

[XmaX]

Got a quest :thumb:

Does the Scirocco got the 'DSG' gearbox? would be rly great :)

nope ;)

[NightShift]

Driving on South City now feels much less bumpy both concerning the shaking of the cockpit view and the force feedback.

I only focused AS7 as this is the combo I've raced almost every day recently. The bump on the finish line is still very visible, and IMO the FFB is not significantly different.

The rumblestrip is another matter though...

I wonder if this is an intentional change or it is a side effect of one of the many internal changes announced for this patch...

Considering that Scawen did not comment on this, I guess he is focusing on graphic glitches, but it might as well be intended. Let's wait and see.

[Jakg]

That's why it would be good if servers was able to force ABS on or off. People are different. Some are racing better without ABS than some people will all possible driving aids. I mean, it's stupid to take ABS off for all players, just becouse some players like racing without ABS more :really: .
Heres the problem - ABS brakes each wheel INDEPENDENTLY, so it can stop the car quicker than you can even with infinite control over the brake pedal - as you are limited by the traction of the wheel with the least grip - so you are always faster with it.

[swisscosmo]

i don't know if this has to do with this test patch but i've never noticed this before. The bug/glitch is when i was racing the LX6 last night i was changing the colors of the rims and i had the innner part of the rims black and the outer area red and when i was changing the red from green to red the inner area was flickering as the red had made the black look a little brighter. So it wasn't a smooth change it was very framey.

[VTiRacing]

Can i send hotlap with this patch to LFSWORLD.NET ?
With Z4 Test patch i cant do it.

[WrEn]

With the new updates on patch z, I have found a bug. I've had this bug on two computers too...

The bug is:
When i press shift+f4, so i can look at other programs when im pitting etc, I have seen that the wheel in the car has freezed (When using mouse). Then, the car is only turning full to the right or full to the left, and there is no way to get it back. The only way to fix it is restearting the game :s :shrug:

Sorry if there is some misunderstandings ...

Pls fix this bug :)

-WrEn :)

[510N3D]

Can i send hotlap with this patch to LFSWORLD.NET ?
With Z4 Test patch i cant do it.

Nope.

[amp88]

Thank you for that extra information. Please watch out for any new test patches and see if I've tried to fix that bug, if so let me know if we have failure or success!

I can see clearly the reported "shadow outline" bug in the first screen shot, but no problem in the second one? And when you say "flickering" is it flickering fast? Or does it stay one way for a while then change every now and then?

I actually uploaded the wrong picture, sorry. The shadow is indeed flickering. I've made a short movie of it and attached it with this post.

[dustthatass]

Thanks again Scavier!!!

[swisscosmo]

With the new updates on patch z, I have found a bug. I've had this bug on two computers too...

The bug is:
When i press shift+f4, so i can look at other programs when im pitting etc, I have seen that the wheel in the car has freezed (When using mouse). Then, the car is only turning full to the right or full to the left, and there is no way to get it back. The only way to fix it is restearting the game :s :shrug:

Sorry if there is some misunderstandings ...

Pls fix this bug :)

-WrEn :)

I've had this exact problem but i didn't think it was the game beuase my mouse some times does it but for me i just could only turn to the full left or right and i just stopped the car and waited a few seconds and then it when away. But please Scavier fix this as it has cost me some positions:D I do have once in ahwile my steering freezes for like 1/2 a second to 1.5 seconds but very short time.

[Jimmy_Lemon]

Can you make the shadows go wrong like that every time?

If so, what is the exact sequence of keys you use? LFS is supposed to detect all cases where dynamic shadows can be corrupted, but still doesn't seem to notice in some cases. I think it depends on your computer as well but anyway, I'd like to know exactly how you can create that bug, if you can reproduce it reliably.

sorry for the late reply iv not check forum for a day,

it was fine on 8.11 cats, but now with 8.12's it happens as you leave the pits, but on the 8.11's you had to shift F4 then shift F4 back into game for it to happen.

[danthebangerboy]

I just wish that i had realised this patch was going to replace a few of the dds files, as it has replaced every single one of the custom ones i made, my project is now defunct for a while as I have no backups of the files i made. Nobodys fault but mine, but still annoying. :(

[WrEn]

I've had this exact problem but i didn't think it was the game beuase my mouse some times does it but for me i just could only turn to the full left or right and i just stopped the car and waited a few seconds and then it when away. But please Scavier fix this as it has cost me some positions:D I do have once in ahwile my steering freezes for like 1/2 a second to 1.5 seconds but very short time.

well... When one time when my mouse froze, nothing helped. I waited for 2 hours, but no changes... I even tried to change car, but nothing was fixed...

So... this is a problem for mouse users:(

[steve30x]

When i view from the wheels camera, i can't see the rims. Sorry if it's been reported already. my specs are in my signature. and when im in fullscreen, only in fullscreen, the shadows look, well, not like shadows. Altough when i printscreen it looks normall. And i sometimes can't press escape for some reason.

I also cannot see the wheel spokes or disks in wheel view. The centre of the wheels , Tyres and RIMS are present but the spokes and disks are missing. Also I like the addition of ABS> Pitty we dont have traction control for those cars also. (even though I would hardly ever use it)

[Senninha25]

In all latino america es almost the same Language , only change a few words and spells , but i dont get it , if latino america has his own language , argentina should have their own like i say A few test patch before

Because Castellano from spain and castellano from argentina they are NOT the same language

And yes i know the Castellano come from castilla is in spain , but i just feel a little Odd , thinking now dev put the NEW lanaguage for Latino americans...

Is just my point of view
I think J@tko's (and your) point is the same with Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese. I just guess Scawen and Co. are concerned about making users more comfortable with the language that they have learned, as probably there's a number of them who will probably feel uncomfortable with pretty much the same language but with some different words.

This is just my point of view as well.
(I may have probably repeated what you just said, but here it is anyway :D)

[gaz328]

i have got to say that i can't see any improvements

regards confused and sad gaz

[Mp3 Astra]

i have got to say that i can't see any improvements

regards confused and sad gaz



Although the list of changes is short, there are a lot of internal changes and optimisations.
So you should probably keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z.


You won't notice it if you scrape the surface.

[pasibrzuch]

Shadows are ok for me. Visible empty space of wing etc., I like them :)

Also new head movement is great! It is so smooth and gentle, which is comfortable and looks better, AND it gives more info about car-suspension-surface relation, just like IRL, IMO.

[Luke.S]

Perhapse you could release a test patch with the scirocco then we can find any bugs with it and help with the development process.

[Gil07]

:slap:

[hda]

Perhapse you could release a test patch with the scirocco then we can find any bugs with it and help with the development process.

they probably have a deal with VW not to release the scirocco until it's perfect, hence not damaging the image people got from the VW brand or something.

I as eager to like drive the scirocco as anyone else but this thread is abut the Z5 test patch, not anything else :thumb:

[Luke.S]

they probably have a deal with VW not to release the scirocco until it's perfect, hence not damaging the image people got from the VW brand or something.

I as eager to like drive the scirocco as anyone else but this thread is abut the Z5 test patch, not anything else :thumb:

Actually it was that they had a working version ready for the GC then could do what they want with it.

[Jimmy_Lemon]

Iv spotted a bug

If you have open lfs in a window (not test patch) and allso have open lfs Z5 in a window next to it, and if you then minimize Z5 and maximise normal LFS everythings fine, then if you minimize normal LFS and then maximise Z5 the steering doesnt work (using mouse) you move left and right and it does nothing, but then if you are to un maximise it back to window then it works.

get what i mean? sorry about my bad explination

[AndroidXP]

Why would you *ever* have two LFS instances running at the same time, though? Don't really think that counts as a bug :shrug:

[WrEn]

Iv spotted a bug

If you have open lfs in a window (not test patch) and allso have open lfs Z5 in a window next to it, and if you then minimize Z5 and maximise normal LFS everythings fine, then if you minimize normal LFS and then maximise Z5 the steering doesnt work (using mouse) you move left and right and it does nothing, but then if you are to un maximise it back to window then it works.

get what i mean? sorry about my bad explination

pls read other posts before you post:)
that happens if you only have z5 open too...

[danthebangerboy]

Perhapse you could release a test patch with the scirocco then we can find any bugs with it and help with the development process.

^^^

You cannot deny, this is a good point.

Take the lead up to patch Z for example. There were many Y patches released quite close to the final release of Z, which leads me to believe that these patches contained alot of the content for patch Z which needed to be tested out on our different pc's for any possible and unexpected problems.

I remember one of the patches (Y25?) that if you changed your name in the drivers menu and your car had some damage, the model of the car used to shrink and damage glitch into itself.

These kind of problems weren't, and could never be expected to be spotted at the development stage. This is what i thought was the point of test patches in the first place.

I can't help but think, if we don't have a car to test, and try and break ;) then once the big release happens, there could be an array of problems that the devs could never be expected to find, resulting in patch after patch soon after the release.

Better to iron out niggles and then be confident that there will be a much smaller chance of there being any problems once the final release takes place.

EDIT: I have just realised that i am not in the scirocco thread, sorry for going off topic.

[Luke.S]

I found that glitch :D

[RockBottomWalsh]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this....

I am running Z5 and this seems to happen to me all the time. In single player i have been doing qualifying. When i start the session the first time all is fine and the game runs as normal.

When i end it though and try to restart after changing my car the game seems to crash every time. (lfs.exe has stopped working. Close program?)

Is anyone else getting this?

[Inouva]

Two bugs

First: some times when you do Shift+f4 and do it again to enter in full screen mode , the mouse stering get stuck and cant steer

The other bug , in lx4 ,the plate get overlay with the tire , look at pick
73033

[G!NhO]

Iv spotted a bug

If you have open lfs in a window (not test patch) and allso have open lfs Z5 in a window next to it, and if you then minimize Z5 and maximise normal LFS everythings fine, then if you minimize normal LFS and then maximise Z5 the steering doesnt work (using mouse) you move left and right and it does nothing, but then if you are to un maximise it back to window then it works.

get what i mean? sorry about my bad explination

:ices_rofl what a bug!

[danthebangerboy]

Two bugs

First: some times when you do Shift+f4 and do it again to enter in full screen mode , the mouse stering get stuck and cant steer

The other bug , in lx4 ,the plate get overlay with the tire , look at pick
73033

Already mentioned mate. :)

[G!NhO]

Already mentioned mate. :)

Psssssssss................."She" is a girl ;)

[Inouva]

The mouse bug

Yes is happens to me too

also i dont know why now I cant open Firefox and utorrent without lfs get Slow the fps drops from 90+ to 10 ,didint happen before the test patch´s

Edit , it happens to without using the Shift+f4

I have asignated the Left mouse botton to se left side and the right botton to se right

When i am stering and click one of the bottons to se at one side , the mouse get Stcuk, also , when i quit the game , the mouse still dead in windows , i need unplug and plug it againt to work propely

[danthebangerboy]

Psssssssss................."She" is a girl ;)

Oops, I didnt realise! At least with becky's username, its clear. But hey, im stupid anyway so never mind. :)

[amp88]

Why would you *ever* have two LFS instances running at the same time, though? Don't really think that counts as a bug :shrug:

There are reasons to have multiple instance of LFS running (I've done it quite a bit over the years).

1. To view an MPR without leaving the server you're currently connected to.
2. Opening the temp.mpr file in multiple instances and skipping to the end so you can have several different camera views of the current race.

There are probably more but I can't think of any at the moment.

[evilpimp]

O_O I would have sworn that Scawen locked this thread earlier today.

[Velociround]

There are reasons to have multiple instance of LFS running (I've done it quite a bit over the years).

1. To view an MPR without leaving the server you're currently connected to.
2. Opening the temp.mpr file in multiple instances and skipping to the end so you can have several different camera views of the current race.

There are probably more but I can't think of any at the moment.

3. Having nothing else to do, then creating a server and logging myself into it on several instances, just to see all the instances of the game moving at the same time while you drive in one of them, and taking screenshots of it for friends and using it on 2 monitors :tilt:
(I know, I'm crazy :D )
http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=73052&stc=1&d=1229406871

4. Opening a dedicated server and logging yourself in it (on another lfs instance) for playing with friends.

[Shotglass]

Opening the temp.mpr file in multiple instances and skipping to the end so you can have several different camera views of the current race.

for multiple monitors while youre in the race? that works?

[el pibe]

thx scawen. it works fine for me, no bugs/problems found yet


oh... and i love the ABS feature

[XingZhiWei]

thanks,good~~~

[amp88]

for multiple monitors while youre in the race? that works?

Yep.

[AndroidXP]

There are reasons to have multiple instance of LFS running (I've done it quite a bit over the years).

1. To view an MPR without leaving the server you're currently connected to.
2. Opening the temp.mpr file in multiple instances and skipping to the end so you can have several different camera views of the current race.

There are probably more but I can't think of any at the moment.
Granted, but in neither of them you need the steering to work :razz:

[DarkTimes]

Why would you *ever* have two LFS instances running at the same time, though? Don't really think that counts as a bug :shrug:
It's really useful if you are making an insim application, as you can have a dedi-server and several versions of LFS connected on the same machine, which makes debugging a lot easier.

[pasibrzuch]

I had two crashes to windows in Z5. It seemed very random: practicing alone at south sity with xfg and bf1.

Never had problems like that with lfs, but there was many other programs running so I didn't bother. But know I will focus on it more.

What info is useful in this situation? I remeber only that it was caused by some DirectX 8 *.dll (not sure though...)

[amp88]

What info is useful in this situation?

Click me for goodness (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=14788) :)

[kamo2000]

Ok propably was reported/posted but if not:

If you start your own server from ingame your pb's and laps won't be counted.

Had to restore my Z version to get them back as i race mainly on my own server.

[Mikko1]

is working on demo? :smileypul
so good ... :nod: buut what is new patch?
:D

E:Live for Speed S2 Z5 rocks!

[Scawen]

OK, I've found a way to reproduce the D3D8.dll crash.

Technical explanation follows (only for interest)

It's related to drawing parts of track that think they have a shadow on them, when there is no such shadow texture in memory.

One way to reproduce :

Switch OFF mirrors
Select BL GP REV
Add 3 AI
Join race (in 4th place)
Start race
Wait until the AI just disappear over the hill
Exit back to game setup screen

Now LFS is in the bugged state, ready to crash, when it tries to draw the land that the AI were driving on. LFS still thinks there are shadows on that land - because it was not visible when the AI registered their shadows on the land.

To get the crash :

Remove the AI from the grid
Start race
Drive over the hill

LFS will crash when the land just over the hill is drawn.

There are two bugs here, combining to produce the crash : (1) the shadows are not cleared from being registered on land unless the land is drawn and (2) when shadows are cleared from memory (e.g. exit to game setup screen) they are not removed from a list of shadows.

In fact this bug has always been in LFS, it would just not show itself because the shadows were never cleaned up from the memory. So in old versions the bug would probably appear as a momentary flash of an invalid shadow, which would then be cleared. Almost unnoticeable. But the new shadow memory cleanups have showed up this old bug, instead causing a crash.

[rockclan]

Great you found this bug :)
So now you can fix it!

Good going Scavier!!

[Mille Sabords]

No problem to reproduce it here ;)

Just one question, only if you have a few seconds to spare: why does it bug only when the mirrors are off?

Thanks for the information, good luck for the fixing part.

[Scawen]

No problem to reproduce it here ;)

Just one question, only if you have a few seconds to spare: why does it bug only when the mirrors are off?Well it's just that in this particular case of the way to reproduce it, the mirrors have to be off. There would be other ways to reproduce the bug even with the mirrors on.

In this case, if the mirrors are being drawn, then when you come over the hill, the world is drawn first in the mirrors. The land which the AI were originally driving on is in a list of objects to be drawn when you come over the hill.

But LFS notices that the land is not in the view of the mirrors, and in this case the registration of the shadows on that piece of land is cleared (because it attempted to draw the land, even though it did not actually draw it). So when it then draws the main view, the bug has already been removed.

EDIT : I have not tried but I guess you could reproduce it in this case with mirrors on by turning your car round and driving backwards over the hill :)

[Rotary]

Since installing Test Patch Z5 I've been getting CTD's whilst in Window Mode.

I was able to reproduce it. I was in car selection screen (TBO only enabled on server) with RB4 selected. Pressed Shift+f4, download setup from Inferno, clicked back into LFS, picked different car, repicked RB4 to refresh Setups, selected new setup, clicked OK... Crashed to Desktop. I was in window mode still.

I did the same thing with the FXO. Same CTD result.

[AndroidXP]

I bet it's quite a relief to get rid of a bug that was quite mysterious and appeared at seemingly random times :)

It's one thing to have the application crash, see a callstack from within your app and are able to deduce from that where it happened and most likely also why it happened (even better if there are clear steps to reproduce), but with the DX8 error I guess all you saw from the callstack was you calling your graphics drawing routine (or maybe even as accurate as hinting you to the shadow drawing) and then DX8 going tits up. Figuring out why one of hundreds of thousands calls to the same function fails isn't fun.

[Mille Sabords]

...
EDIT : I have not tried but I guess you could reproduce it in this case with mirrors on by turning your car round and driving backwards over the hill :)

Confirmed :D

[pasibrzuch]

If I remember correctly I was leaving pits in SO Chicane after switching XFG to BF1 and possibly I was playing with AA & AF meanwhile.

ps. strange thing is, I could sworn that limiter light at bf1 wasn't blinking grey-red-grey-red but darkred-red-darkred-red then, just like stop lights :schwitz:

[rockclan]

1 thing I always had at my office pc.
That when I turned on to much AA it would crash and restart.
This is normal on one side since the videocard isn't able to run as much as I selected.

But though it's really bad it causes the PC to crash.
It should do other things....

But that probably won't happen anymore since my USB Harddisk just caused the processor and more to fataly die:schwitz:, and I'm now working on another Desktop.

E: The PC that died was my PC at work, I lost stuff as a Intranet, but also ALL my study homework at my USB Disk :(:(:(

[Becky Rose]

Forgive me if I come late to the discussion or have missed a resolved issue, I dont pay too much attention to test patches these days but I picked up on this issue and felt I had to raise the point.

Implemented ABS brakes in XFG / XRG / RB4 / FXO / XRT / FZ5
It has always been my understanding, from reading your [Scawens] posts that the cars in LFS represented cars in racing trim, posts such as the sound discussion with square-cut gears etc let me to this conclusion.

I note that you are intent on the inclusion of ABS on several of LFS' hybrid race-"road" cars.

It saddens me to highlight that ABS is banned in almost all racing formula, braking is part of the art of being a racing driver and seeing two whole classes move over to it removes - in my view - one of the single most important aspects of race driving from the entire rung of low-performance road styled racing cars in LFS.

I would urge that ABS, whilst a needed feature for the simulation of the VWS, should not be introduced in such a wholescale manner to a racing simulation.

Thankyou for reading my thoughts.

[heson]

It saddens me to highlight that ABS is banned in almost all racing formula
ABS IS legal in alot of classes, Porsche cup for example, and others like endurance (limited time evidence in swedish http://www.blocket.se/vi/18619879.htm?ca=14_s&last=1)
But this discussion is for another thread in another subforum!

[AndroidXP]

It has always been my understanding, from reading your [Scawens] posts that the cars in LFS represented cars in racing trim
I think this is where you think wrong. From what I can remember Scawen never partook in any of the setup limitation discussions, so we never had an official statement, other than noticing that the road cars gradually lost setup options over the last patches. Can you maybe point me to the posts (regarding helical/square cut gears) that left that impression on you?

IMO the reason the road cars (and I think they're supposed to be really road cars) still have so many setup options is a combination of
Not wanting to piss off the community / not knowing how it would react.
Just see how carefully the post regarding the VWS setup is formulated. It's the first car where they can steer into that direction without destroying existing work/setups.
Not having the time yet to code up a system that restricts the setup options in a realistic manner. To me it seems the VWS will be easy there because most options will be completely removed, instead of restricted to steps / realistic values.

[Easy_Mike]

....................

I would urge that ABS, whilst a needed feature for the simulation of the VWS, should not be introduced in such a wholescale manner to a racing simulation.

.....

Remember that ABS still is an "option" just as autogears etc. and could probably be restricted thru scripting or even dediserver setup.
And as mentioned there are classes with allowed ABS systems.

Might be a pointer to Scawen to make it a server option ABS[Allowed/NOTAllowed]

however this is not related in this thread,since there is no BUG :D

[1Colin1]

Haven't had any crashes on any of these test patches, new shadows are nice, bit of a fps decrease but other than that 100% for me anyway.

I know this is off-topic but the dev's must feel pretty rubbish when half there community start moaning and crying over abs being added to the road cars, I'm sure it was a lot of work and time went into the creation of it and when people basically asked that they want an option to disable it (I can understand for leagues) it must feel pretty rubbish...

I personally use a mouse and I find that it is helpful but overall doesn't improve my times but the key point is it's helpful to some people so I wish people would stop moaning at the dev's, it's there game and they can add what they see fit.

[amp88]

I personally use a mouse and I find that it is helpful but overall doesn't improve my times but the key point is it's helpful to some people so I wish people would stop moaning at the dev's, it's there game and they can add what they see fit.

I think it's definitely a good addition to the cars that should have it (you could argue the XFG and XRG shouldn't) and as long as it can be regulated either in the server confiruation or through InSim I don't think it'll be a big issue. I've only done a few laps in anger using ABS myself and have definitely found an improvement. I went out on AS2R/FXO and did a time only 0.49 seconds slower than WR (http://icespy.zilium.de/pb/top/AS2R/FXO/10). I'm not very quick in the FXO so this came as a bit of a surprise. When I was driving a few laps before without ABS I was about 0.75 secs slower. AS2R contains a couple of corners that will accentuate the difference (braking into T1 and the last turn), but in my experience it's definitely quicker.

edit: ABS is going to be quicker...if it wasn't they wouldn't have developed and used it in F1 before it was banned.

[Doorman]

I know this is off-topic but the dev's must feel pretty rubbish when half there community start moaning and crying over abs being added to the road cars, I'm sure it was a lot of work and time went into the creation of it and when people basically asked that they want an option to disable it (I can understand for leagues) it must feel pretty rubbish...

I personally use a mouse and I find that it is helpful but overall doesn't improve my times but the key point is it's helpful to some people so I wish people would stop moaning at the dev's, it's there game and they can add what they see fit.
It's the nature of the place. Put on your plonker filter. :smileypul

[ACCAkut]

why should the Devs feel bad about it? Remember the mourning when the clutch overheating was added, quite similar. And afaik the ABS was added for the lot of keyboard/mouse racers, and imo to help demo users managing thier first corner :D

[Scawen]

I think it's fair enough to discuss ABS brakes as they are an important feature of this series of test patches.

One bug report was that the "Braking - GTI" lesson text is now quite wrong and inapproriate for a car with ABS brakes. I'm thinking the XF GTI should have its ABS removed, specially as the real car which it was loosely based on does not have ABS brakes, so it was a mistake fitting it with ABS in the first place.

However, the car that the XR GT was loosely based on does have ABS brakes so from that point of view it should be there in LFS. I thought that the XF GTI had a slight advantage, because if I visit a host with XFG and XRG, most people seem to be driving an XF GTI. So I was thinking that leaving ABS on the XR GT would be good for balancing. However, I am told the XR GT is usually faster and a quick look at the hotlap tables seems to agree that this is the case. So I'm not sure about the consequences of removing it from the XF GTI and leaving it on the XR GT.

One the related subject of whether it should be there at all, I think it should definitely be fitted to those cars on which it has been enabled, except the XF GTI and possibly the XR GT (as discussed above). I'm considering the possibility of passing the ABS state of the setup to InSim so host control programs can decide what they want to do if someone uses ABS. At first sight it does seem to be a good idea to allow hosts to enforce a no ABS rule, but I have not yet looked into the code for this.

[G!NhO]

I think that the xfg should keep the abs :shrug:

[SamH]

Scawen, I genuinely think it should be a host config option rather than an InSim option. It's easy for a few of us to check flags because we're already running InSim apps and doing exactly that already.. but I do think an /allowabs yes|no (default yes) host config option would be appreciated by the majority of hosts that exist. Many of them aren't able to run InSim control applications.

[edit] Actually, both in InSim and also host config. Then those of us who are controlling flags can allow ABS on the server but then have the additional control over individual cars.

However, I am told the XR GT is usually faster
I'll confirm that too. The reason the XFG is popular is because of the lack of "bottle" needed to race it. Even I can win a race in an XRG, so it must be faster.

[Vain]

I believe it would be very useful to make a statement on the concept behind the road going cars in LFS. Are they taken directly from the street or are they intended for racing?
The current development state of LFS doesn't allow the users to make a decision and it has caused a lot of discussion/criticism.
Afterwards the discussion about wether ABS is appropriate for the cars will be much easier.

Also, is technical feedback encouraged in this discussion? I'd like to comment on the way LFS seems to work in LFS in comparison to my experience from working with Bosch but I'm not going to go through the trouble if there are no chances of positively affecting anything.

Vain

[Sir moi 407]

Hello Scawen ;)
I'll tell you my opinion: I think removing it from XFG is a pretty good Idea! That will make XRG a bit easier to drive :)
About XRT, I think that first you need to balance TBO class.
Well that's maybe a little OT but just to prove you that the TBO class is really bad balanced, take a look at that video where FXO has 5% of restriction and XRT 1%. http://www.lfsfrance.org/replay_stat/saison2008_1/replays/course3_pouleA.mpr

[Bob Smith]

Well that's maybe a little OT but just to prove you that the TBO class is really bad balanced, take a look at that video where FXO has 5% of restriction and XRT 1%. http://www.lfsfrance.org/replay_stat/saison2008_1/replays/course3_pouleA.mpr
I've not watched the replay but I'm assuming the FXO is clearly faster. While valid, such an example must not be taken alone, as the cars must be balanced on average over all the track variations.

[amp88]

On the subject of XFG versus XRG I don't think the hotlap charts show the full story. Whilst the XRG may show up to have faster WRs, it's also quite a lot harder to drive than the XFG. Simply put, the average driver will be faster in the XFG than the XRG. I'm glad to see you're considering removing the ABS from the XFG, Scawen.

[Danke]

I'm curious to see the effect of ABS on all the TBOs. I'm an XRT guy myself and it's much more more stable now under braking, which presumably will translate to speed. ABS on the FXO may not have as much effect, being FWD and front-heavy.

In very limited testing, I wasn't seeing the ABS indicator come on nearly as much in the FXO as it did in the XRT. Mabye adding ABS to all three will bring the XRT and RB4 even with the FXO now.

Now why couldn't those Finnish guys have put ABS on the '02 Raceabout?

[NightShift]

IMO ABS would be a welcome addition for cleaner racing on the entry level (and demo) servers as it almost completely removes the chance of making mistakes, especially in those tricky spots where locking the brakes means upsetting the car.

New and recent players who would benefit from the ABS, will have to relearn their braking technique as soon as they move to one of the faster cars (FBM comes to mind).

About the XFG, I'm likely thinking of the wrong car because I remember some trims had 2-way ABS as an option, and wikipedia seems to agree with me :scratchch

edit: ABS is going to be quicker...if it wasn't they wouldn't have developed and used it in F1 before it was banned.

ABS has been developed to increase driveability under heavy braking, e.g. avoiding a stationary object on a wet road.

As a snailfast driver, I did not benefit from the ABS in the XFG. Admittedly I've only tested it on one combo, and it may be that only faster drivers are able to put it to good use.

[anttt69]

So I'm not sure about the consequences of removing it from the XF GTI and leaving it on the XR GT.

I would remove ABS from both cars, or if you want to use it on the XRG then the XF will need a better power to weight ratio to even things up a bit.

[FBUT Bishop]

Cool, a new patch. But what about those pinball barriers on FE Gold and FE green on the bridge? That shoulb be fixed! No? :(

[Sir moi 407]

I've not watched the replay but I'm assuming the FXO is clearly faster. While valid, such an example must not be taken alone, as the cars must be balanced on average over all the track variations.
Sure! But if it needs 5% to be equal in AS3, that means it isn't balanced...

[Mille Sabords]

I would like to add my little input to the ABS discussion here.

I was racing XFG last night on AS north (Dead Men Racing for free advertisement purposes :)).
I turned on ABS and cranked up brake strength and found out that by trying not to activate it I needed a better modulation of the brake pedal.
Trying that for a few laps helped me find the threshold much faster that the usual tedious process (save a replay and check with the force view where it locks).

So the ABS should in my opinion remain an option player and server side for the road cars, as it provides a good learning tool.
It is much easier to tell when a tyre is on the limit and to stay close with the ABS orange color and feedback, and I plan to carry on learning how to brake with higher brake forces this way.

Another note: usual setups (meaning shared by a vast amount of users) have a greatly reduced brake strength in order to prevent lockups at 100% braking - braking start conditions. Does the ABS really give a further advantage that than extreme setup option?

[robt]

slightly off topic i suppose, its to do with the CMX viewer, but would come under the subject of the latest graphic updates at the same time:shrug:
when changing the wheel colour in CMX viewer, the VW badge in the centre of the wheel also changes colour (guessing due to it all being one DDS file?) Any way to rectify this? As im sure Vw dont make gold or pitch black badges:smileypul

[NightShift]

Trying that for a few laps helped me find the threshold much faster that the usual tedious process (save a replay and check with the force view where it locks).

Yep it also makes easier to tune brakes as you'll see which wheels are locking in which corners. I was surprised to notice some locking in corners where I thought there was none.

Does the ABS really give a further advantage that than extreme setup option?

Another good point.

[kirmy]

just a question about braking, have all cars had something done to their braking, because before the patch when i fully applied the brakes in the FXR and locked up the engine didnt lose revs and stall almost, or did it happen, i cant remember, but in the new patch i noticed it immediatly, new features of braking ?

[SamH]

just a question about braking, have all cars had something done to their braking, because before the patch when i fully applied the brakes in the FXR and locked up the engine didnt lose revs and stall almost, or did it happen, i cant remember, but in the new patch i noticed it immediatly, new features of braking ?
This has to be one of the worst examples of not bothering to read ANYTHING before posting. Come on, open your eyes for goodness sake.. there's no excuse for spamming the test patch thread through such blatent laziness.

[AndroidXP]

This has to be one of the worst examples of not bothering to read ANYTHING before posting. Come on, open your eyes for goodness sake.. there's no excuse for spamming the test patch thread through such blatent laziness.
:confused: The patch doesn't say anything about the FXR, so I think that's a valid question.

[james12s]

as for abs on the xrg and not on the xfg, i personally think it would be a good thing as with the xrg braking distances are quite a bit longer sometimes and can cause acidents on severs running the cars but to do this the xfg would need a little work to keep it balanced

[kirmy]

Changes in TEST PATCH Z5 :

New language included : Español Latino (still need to add a flag)
FIX : Crash on closing LFS from multiplayer while tyres displayed
Probable fix for shadow stretching bug on some graphics cards
Possible fix for an apparently random crash in D3D8.dll

Changes in TEST PATCH Z4 :

Attempted fix for polygon errors seen on some graphics cards
FIX : It was impossible to join an online race with a demo car

Changes in TEST PATCH Z3 :

Updated wheels on Formula BMW
Implemented ABS brakes in XFG / XRG / RB4 / FXO / XRT / FZ5
Improved wheel drawing system including rotating brake discs
Improved shadows - sharper and ambient shadow effect now included
InSim : New packets to start / search replays and take screenshots
FIX : Player name was wrong in entry screen on entry or after replay
FIX : Added checks to prevent guests joining with no user name or ID
FIX : OOS starting race after joining autocross host in entry screen




nope nothin about any new braking, just abs:shrug:

[SamH]

Hmm.. maybe it's an over-reaction on my part after misunderstanding the context of kirmy's post, after reading a bunch more spam in this thread - and then adding my own :shy:

[SamH]

nope nothin about any new braking, just abs:shrug:
Umm.. abs=anti-locking brakes.. so yeah, something about braking :p

[kirmy]

Hmm.. maybe it's an over-reaction on my part after misunderstanding the context of kirmy's post, after reading a bunch more spam in this thread - and then adding my own :shy:

apology accepted :D

quick question for scawen though, just wondering what "optimisation" you made to have a funny effect with the graphics cards?

[bbman]

just a question about braking, have all cars had something done to their braking, because before the patch when i fully applied the brakes in the FXR and locked up the engine didnt lose revs and stall almost, or did it happen, i cant remember, but in the new patch i noticed it immediatly, new features of braking ?

Got that in the old patches plenty, the more open the diff the more prone the car is to do that when both driven wheels are locked... Someone once said it's the diff locking up - whatever that means...

[kirmy]

Someone once said it's the diff locking up - whatever that means...

probably the diff locking, which means the drive shaft will also lock causing the engine to stall, if the wheels are locked, this is with the clutch not engaged

[DragonCommando]

Sometimes ABS helps on normal road driving sure, but if you are going to race a car, ABS can be a bad thing. What if the guy behind you doesn't have ABS? you are both slowing down as quickly as possible, and unless that guy behind you practiced for hours threshhold braking, he's not going to match your rate of deceleration.

Personaly, I will never use ABS, and I hope to get a car in real life that doesn't have it. If you know your car well, you shoulden't need aids to control it. I learned alot of techniques that help me control a car better than most people.

With the cars in LFS though, I'd think the ABS would be a little more crude. Single channel, and just modulate the brakes rapidly. Older ABS systems did infact INCREASE the brake distance over threshold braking, but decreased it significantly over locked wheels. The reason for this was that they would ususaly just modulate all four wheels at the same time and this would decrease the total stopping force of the brakes.

On modern cars this isn't the case because ABS can ususaly modulate each wheel individualy, this is especialy true on cars that have TC.

Having actualy worked on brakes for two years, I know most of the configurations for ABS. Its not hard to google it though, so anyone can learn how newer ABS systems work. I can't seem to find anything about older ABS though.

[AndroidXP]

What if the guy behind you doesn't have ABS? you are both slowing down as quickly as possible, and unless that guy behind you practiced for hours threshhold braking, he's not going to match your rate of deceleration.
That is probably the worst argument, ever.

[Napalm Candy]

I have an idea to make a good balanced classes. Make changes on a Test Patch an leave 2 weeks for upload HLs for a 3 or 4 diferent tracks. Preferably large tracks, like Aston Grand Prix, and some short life Fern Bay green. Now the posibility to upload to an unoficial LFSworld, or a LFSworld test patch. I think that people will help with their best hotlaps. You can to compare this laps and make a good balanced TBOs class.

Because now, the faster an easiest is FXO, slower is RB4 but not in rally (is the faster logically), and XRT is hardest to drive and not the faster. But FXO and RB4 have problems with front wheels on race, and XRT no.

[Doorman]

Are you still interested in crashes? I had my first ctd in LFS after about 800 test patches. Quite exciting!
Address 0x000000006d9dae7c. I was so surprised I'm not sure what the cause was. I was in the garage/windowed and hit full screen and bang!
Hope that's helpful. :shrug:

[Shotglass]

Yep.

hm i wonder if that trick would work with shared folders across a network to get multiple monitors without the framerate penalty

However, the car that the XR GT was loosely based on does have ABS brakes so from that point of view it should be there in LFS.

Since the cars they're based on matter I'll have to reitterate my point that the frequency of the system and the degree of freedom to apply different ABS controll inputs for each wheel should be limited to something more appropriate for the age of the car it's based on.
The current systems seems very advanced compared to the kind of ABS I'd expect on a car that looks at least 20 years old.

[Stang70Fastback]

What if the guy behind you doesn't have ABS? you are both slowing down as quickly as possible, and unless that guy behind you practiced for hours threshhold braking, he's not going to match your rate of deceleration.

Well, considering:

a.) People usually run into me from behind anyway.
b.) In real life that's what happens on the roads when a 911 slams on its brakes in front of a Hummer.
c.) In racing that's what happens when an Elise brakes ahead of a Mustang...

The point is, that's part of racing. Besides, not everyone has the same setups now anyway, so all cars brake differently in any given race. I wouldn't get all up someone's rear coming into a corner unless you KNOW you can out-brake them... otherwise you're just being an idiot. And if you can't out-brake them, then do what I do and leave enough space to swerve around or... brake earlier! In other words, if you're even a half-decent racer (in terms of actually driving, and also in terms of online racing etiquette) this shouldn't be an issue.

Besides your argument is negated by the fact that what you said would probably be true... but in the other way around. The people who aren't good at threshold braking will probably prefer to use ABS, whereas the people who are good at threshold braking probably won't... which means that the people behind you will have full steering control even if they have to slam on the brakes, which means that they should be able to avoid ramming you.

Of course, again, no-one ever seems to avoid ramming me anyway on any servers other than the ConeDodgers ones, lol.

[hda]

Race was restarting in CTRA Race 1 server, I switched fullscreen off to see if I had any new messages in wlm and LFS crashed.

The track was FE3 and I was using the XFG.

Unhandled exception at 0x6b785bf7 in LFS.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation writing location 0x0000045c.

Btw I'm running Xfire, don't know if that can mess with LFS, usually it doesn't

[Simpson]

Dont know is it related with test patch, but since i install Z5, LFS keeps randomly minimizing on crowdy servers. Sometimes 5 times per connection, and sometimes at all :/

[Karl Morytz]

Now Why Couldn't Those Finnish Guys Have Put Abs On The '02 Raceabout?

+1

[steve30x]

If the option to disallow ABS in a server is implemented I hope that we dont get 80% of the servers with this option enabled. I like the new ABS system and would like to use it every once in a while.

[Danke]

Unless some kind of incompatibility is introduced, the ABS cat's already out of the bag. Let's say Z6 and the official patch remove ABS from the XFG. Anyone who keeps Z5 around still has it.

[Mp3 Astra]

Unless some kind of incompatibility is introduced, the ABS cat's already out of the bag. Let's say Z6 and the official patch remove ABS from the XFG. Anyone who keeps Z5 around still has it.

I think when the hosts are updated to the next patch, any old patches can't connect.

[SamH]

If the option to disallow ABS in a server is implemented I hope that we dont get 80% of the servers with this option enabled. I like the new ABS system and would like to use it every once in a while.
I don't intend to disable it on CTRA. Since we run TBO in Race 2 and XFG/XRG in Race 1, and all of those receive ABS, there isn't a strong argument for us to disable it. We haven't disabled braking help in the past so it doesn't make much sense to start tampering now.

I do think the decision should be made available to the server ops, though.

[Bean0]

It's a weird one.

I originally thought that ABS is bad because it takes away part of the challenge.
After further thinking, it doesn't seem so bad because it will of course be the same for everyone (either forced on, or optional).

TC has never been a server option, so ABS shouldn't either.
I would like to see both able to be detected by insim apps such as lapper though, as this is useful for league admins.

I suppose running a series with it banned without either would be down to trust, and would probably have differing results depending on the league. For example, the RSSC/RSWC have always banned TC in the FZ50...to my knowledge no-one has ever tried to sneakily use it, but this particular series does seem to attract your 'more mature' LFSer.

Of course if it is decided that certain cars have ABS full stop, then the above points are out of the window.


Edit: Has anyone tried RallyX with ABS...if so, what is the effect ?

[foopower]

Hi, Im a newbie here. I just want to tell you, the shadow thing... It happends on my ATi Radeon 9200. I hope you can fix that.

[1303s_vortech]

Now why couldn't those Finnish guys have put ABS on the '02 Raceabout?

Because if everything was so easy, there will be no fun.
Remember, "you have to do the driving".:D

[anttt69]

Hi, Im a newbie here. I just want to tell you, the shadow thing... It happends on my ATi Radeon 9200. I hope you can fix that.

a screen shot would be helpful for the devs to know what kind of shadow problem you have with your radeon

[Powered by AMD[ARG]]

Hi, Im a newbie here. I just want to tell you, the shadow thing... It happends on my ATi Radeon 9200. I hope you can fix that.

Not only the screenshot, also tell us what drivers are you using, and please first uninstall your current ones and update them.
Also make sure your system is not overclocked in any way.

[iulikk_02]

I don't know if the problem was posted before... didn't have time to read all the thread. (sorry for my bad english). I found a problem at the XFG: it is the the brakes that didn't see... i have attached a photo to see what i am talking about:

[Flame CZE]

I don't know if the problem was posted before... didn't have time to read all the thread. (sorry for my bad english). I found a problem at the XFG: it is the the brakes that didn't see... i have attached a photo to see what i am talking about:
Reported MANY MANY times before. But why do you care about it so much? It's only a force view so there is no need to draw brake discs... :scratchch