Tesla Roadster

[oida_fux]

Dear friends,

the car that would boost LFS, and the automotive world, is the Tesla Roadster. I am sure, that you as developers, who have proven that a grassroot-concept like your fabulous simulation CAN work out, will get some support from the Teslamotors-Company if you put that car in.
And besides, you would not have to fumble round so much with the engine-sounds. ;-)

Regards,
Michael Eisner
www.mezzanin-livingroom.net

[Vinnylegends]

The thing that would boost LFS is the Scirocco. Be happy with that. The devs got a (...)load of work to do to finish the Scirocco. Let alone say S2 wich isnt finished. And now people speak about S3. Really people should enjoy LFS now for what we have now! And dream about the future!

[oida_fux]

Of course, or "off corse" :), I don´t want to push anyone. And I got big respect for the work that is beeing done. Be sure.
It was just an idea, worth thinking about.

Thanks,
Michael

[ATC Quicksilver]

I'm not sure what the website is for, but I doubt the devs will want to install plug sockets on the tracks at every half mile anyway.

[pacesetter]

I'm not sure what the website is for, but I doubt the devs will want to install plug sockets on the tracks at every half mile anyway.


hmm maybe its a good idea cos the new RAC is electric powered and needs to charge up :D

[flymike91]

I don't think electric cars have a place in LFS. I live 2 miles away from one of the world's only Tesla dealerships, so I see quite a few in my area. I'm not impressed by them. Their build quality is shitty and on the ones I've seen on the road, the panels don't even fit correctly. When an electric car can go 400 miles on a single charge and top out at 180 mph, then i'll be impressed. Right now it goes 170 miles on a charge and tops out at 125 mph.

[Furiously-Fast]

Charing in pit lanes in an electric car could be long, right?:shrug:

[pacesetter]

I don't think electric cars have a place in LFS. I live 2 miles away from one of the world's only Tesla dealerships, so I see quite a few in my area. I'm not impressed by them. Their build quality is shitty and on the ones I've seen on the road, the panels don't even fit correctly. When an electric car can go 400 miles on a single charge and top out at 180 mph, then i'll be impressed. Right now it goes 170 miles on a charge and tops out at 125 mph.


180mph is a bit unnessescary dont you think?

[tristancliffe]

I'd rather the electric cars, not that I think they are a remotely good idea, should concentrate on range and acceleration, not top speed. I don't think they need to go above 100mph EVER, but they should get to 60 in at least 10 seconds (for the shitty cheap models), and have a range on one charge of at least 800 miles. Plus they must be able to keep their charge for at least a month without being used - e.g. a long holiday.

At the moment the only thing the manufacturers are concerned about is either top speed or making them tiny. This means that for 99.9% of potential buyers they are an utter waste of money.

And, with electricity prices rocketting and fuel prices falling I can't see them becoming an more popular any time soon.

[Shotglass]

and tops out at 125 mph.

and youre allowed to do that speed in how many countries? certainly not yours

[R3DMAN]

The thing that would boost LFS is the Scirocco. Be happy with that. The devs got a (...)load of work to do to finish the Scirocco. Let alone say S2 wich isnt finished. And now people speak about S3. Really people should enjoy LFS now for what we have now! And dream about the future!

what we have now..

easy for you to say your a newbie here..

[gezmoor]

and youre allowed to do that speed in how many countries? certainly not yours


It's because he's used to thinking in terms of the current car products available, where generally speaking top speed comes as a by product of acceleration and vice versa, (of course there are exceptions such as the Elise et al). The buying public have been brainwashed in to aspiring towards products with needlessly high top speeds and by the available products where to have "fast" mid-range acceleration you need a car with a high top speed. This behaviour is to a large extent a product of how combustion engines develop power. An Electric motor however works in a competely different way it has maximum torque from zero revs so esentially the mid range acceleration becomes entirely about gearing not about what revs your doing in combination with gears. In this respect the Tesla has midrange acceleration only very powerful petrol engined cars can dream of:

"Our top-gear acceleration measured 2.3 seconds for the 30-to-50- and 50-to-70-mph intervals. The Tesla’s 4.6-second total for the two tests bests that of a Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series (http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/mercedes_benz/clk_class/2008_mercedes_benz_clk63_amg_black_series), which was our 2007 champion in this measure of instant responsiveness."

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/sports_car_central/2008_tesla_roadster_road_test

[Chrisuu01]

The thing that would boost LFS is the Scirocco. Be happy with that. The devs got a (...)load of work to do to finish the Scirocco. Let alone say S2 wich isnt finished. And now people speak about S3. Really people should enjoy LFS now for what we have now! And dream about the future!


Be here for a year and u start to understand the frustration I mean uve beigh on lfs since june 2008 not venen half a year yet so you can stil talk like that:)

[lizardfolk]

I'd rather the electric cars, not that I think they are a remotely good idea, should concentrate on range and acceleration, not top speed. I don't think they need to go above 100mph EVER, but they should get to 60 in at least 10 seconds (for the shitty cheap models), and have a range on one charge of at least 800 miles. Plus they must be able to keep their charge for at least a month without being used - e.g. a long holiday.

Venturi Fetish: 0-100 km/h (0-60 mph) time of "under 5 seconds" according to the 2007 press kit

Tesla Roadster: 0–60 mph (0–97 km/h) in 3.9 seconds

Tzero: 0 to 60 mph in 4.07 seconds

Mullen GT L1X-75: 0 to 60 in mere 3.1 seconds

Lightning GT: 0 to 60 in 4 seconds

Now for the consumer based electric cars:
Chevy Volt: 0 to 60 in a bit under 6

Chevy EV1: 0 to 60 in under 8

Ford Th!nk: 0 to 60 in under 7

Phoenix Truck: 0 to100 Km (0-60 m.p.h.) in 10 seconds

FIAT Panda SUV: 0 to 60 in 10 seconds

Ford F150 electric edition has the same acceleration as the regular F150

The conception that the electric car can't go fast is a myth

Also, the average American drives 60 miles a day. The longest NASCAR race is the Cola 600 (600 fricking miles). Why would any regular American consumer based electric car, nay ANY CAR, need to push the 800 miles mark? As long as they can go over 200 miles (which is the max that I drove in my trip from New York to the South in one day without stopping) then they are considered reasonable. (And electric cars can go even beyond that limit with lithium ion battery tech). Electric car may not be the answer to all of our problems. But they sure as hell beat the giant Hummers and SUV option....

[BigPeBe]

When I first read the starting post, I thought what is Tesla Roadster and why OP isn't giving us any information.
But then someone mentioned that it's an electric car and so I thought simply no.

Electric cars aren't real cars and they don't belong to proper racing sim, I don't like the idea of devs putting their time into some boring electric-can.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh, but I just hate electric cars.

[Vinnylegends]

Be here for a year and u start to understand the frustration I mean uve beigh on lfs since june 2008 not venen half a year yet so you can stil talk like that:)
Chris, Youre and R3DMAN's reply's are just completely useless.
Since when do we say that Obama will become a good president but he cant because hes a Newb. Thats just weird guys. Having a good pair of brains and respecting the work of the devs and being happy enough with a Scirocco doesnt relate that i joined the community in Jule.
Really guys. Think before you speak.

[obsolum]

When I first read the starting post, I thought what is Tesla Roadster and why OP isn't giving us any information.
But then someone mentioned that it's an electric car and so I thought simply no.

Electric cars aren't real cars and they don't belong to proper racing sim, I don't like the idea of devs putting their time into some boring electric-can.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh, but I just hate electric cars.
The only real difference - as far as racing is concerned - would be the sound of the car :shrug: The rest would be pretty much the same. So while I certainly understand your statement, if you think about it it's not really based on any valid arguments.

[BigPeBe]

I have a good argument, it is not a proper car.:razz:

And plus as how stupid it may be, car's sound is very important part of it.
Racing car has to sound like it's being nuts, if only thing it does is "bzzzzzzzzz" it doesn't make me feel anything.

Plus does electric cars even have a proper manual gearbox?

I want to smell the petrol.

Only important part of racing isn't who's gonna win. It's the cars making my heart beat going up and even feeling the sound on my chest.

[obsolum]

I have a good argument, it is not a proper car.:razz:
Define a "proper car" :) I think you'd be surprised at how well some electric cars perform, as you can tell by some of the statistics posted above.

And plus as how stupid it may be, car's sound is very important part of it.
Racing car has to sound like it's being nuts, if only thing it does is "bzzzzzzzzz" it doesn't make me feel anything.
You're absolutely right there. However, that's just a problem of "mentality" more than anything else. We just can't imagine racing in a car that hardly makes any sound, because we're so used to racing cars having that awesome loud roar.

Plus does electric cars even have a proper manual gearbox?
Good question, I haven't bothered to look that up but I'm sure someone else will answer that :) I think some of them do, some of them don't.

[lizardfolk]

I have a good argument, it is not a proper car.:razz:

How so? it moves, it has wheels, it's a vehicle. It's like saying back in the 50s or so that Jets aren't proper airplanes because they dont have propeller and use a different propulsion system and the fact that electric cars can rival many fuel based cars is already a testament to it's validity as a racing entity

And plus as how stupid it may be, car's sound is very important part of it.
Racing car has to sound like it's being nuts, if only thing it does is "bzzzzzzzzz" it doesn't make me feel anything.

In that case than NASCAR is one of the purest type of race car because their sounds are much louder than a lot of other race cars...LOL I understand the mentality of a car having a loud sound but I really dont see that as a big deal...I mean I wouldn't mind the graceful hiss over the loud roar. It's just a sound for godsake, what about speed, handling, design....all that is MUCH more important than the sound of a car...

[tristancliffe]

The misconception that the electric car can't go fast is a mythSo the misconception is true then?
Also, the average American drives 60 miles a day.Does that include the grannies that might not do any, as well as the reps that might do 250 - 500 per day? Surely it's the high mileage people that need to be convinced to have any reasonably influence?

The longest NASCAR race is the Cola 600 (600 fricking miles). Why would any regular American consumer based electric car, nay ANY CAR, need to push the 800 miles mark? As long as they can go over 200 miles (which is the max that I drove in my trip from New York to the South in one day without stopping) then they are considered reasonable. (And electric cars can go even beyond that limit with lithium ion battery tech). Electric car may not be the answer to all of our problems. But they sure as hell beat the giant Hummers and SUV option....So you enjoy filling your car up with petrol every night? You never ever forget to fill up? I'm happy filling up my TINY fuel tank once a week after about 250 miles, and my car has a hateful range. A 'normal' car needs refuelling after 400 - 800 miles, so why should electric cars be any different? Cars don't have large fuel tanks because they can, it's because the consumers have demanded it. I don't want to have to recharge my car every single night. What if I go on a camping holiday? What if we have a power cut for most of the night? Will not having a charged car be a reasonable excuse not to go to work?

[lizardfolk]

So the misconception is true then?

Wrong vocabulary: conception


Does that include the grannies that might not do any, as well as the reps that might do 250 - 500 per day? Surely it's the high mileage people that need to be convinced to have any reasonably influence?

It's easily upgradeable because of the lithium technology, there's an article that they are working on making the car 1,000 miles by increasing the battery's efficiency. It's not out yet but it's hardly impossible

So you enjoy filling your car up with petrol every night? You never ever forget to fill up?

Ya actually I do especially on a road trip.

I'm happy filling up my TINY fuel tank once a week after about 250 miles, and my car has a hateful range. A 'normal' car needs refuelling after 400 - 800 miles, so why should electric cars be any different? Cars don't have large fuel tanks because they can, it's because the consumers have demanded it. I don't want to have to recharge my car every single night. What if I go on a camping holiday? What if we have a power cut for most of the night? Will not having a charged car be a reasonable excuse not to go to work?

Which is why I'm for hybrids more than pure electric cars. As I've stated electric cars are hardly the answer we're looking for although they are much better than Hummers or SUVs. The best idea is solar but right now we dont have the technology to reasonably apply it to vehicles so that's out the window for now

[tristancliffe]

Wrong vocabulary: conceptionI know :p
It's easily upgradeable because of the lithium technology, there's an article that they are working on making the car 1,000 miles by increasing the battery's efficiency. It's not out yet but it's hardly impossibleWhy not start with an efficient battery? Oh that's right, they haven't made a very good one yet. Sure you upgrade - fancy paying £20,000 whenever you want a range top up (although as you'll need to get new batteries every few years at roughly this cost anyway maybe it's not so bad).
Ya actually I do especially on a road trip.I don't mean the night before a road trip. I mean every night, because otherwise you'll range will be too small to do almost anything, especially emergencies.
Which is why I'm for hybrids more than pure electric cars. As I've stated electric cars are hardly the answer we're looking for although they are much better than Hummers or SUVs. The best idea is solar but right now we dont have the technology to reasonably apply it to vehicles so that's out the window for nowSolar is NOT a good idea. Hybrids take the worst points of both carbon based fuels and chemical storage and merge them together to form a tremendous fail. Ultimately it's got to be either hydrogen fuel cells or nuclear power (using vaguely existing techology - but perhaps we'll discover something better before the oil runs out?).

[duke_toaster]

I remember reading something on here about a system that Tesla claim could recharge the battery in 90 seconds. If there was a system that could recharge the car in 5 minutes it would make the technology easier to use.

That would be pointless in large cities where one could have the option of recharging in car parks, but useful elsewhere.

[NightShift]

In LFS we wouldn't have to charge or change the battery anyway, so the Tesla Roadster sure gets my :thumb: it has nice looks and great acceleration, plus it's electric so it can increase recognition for this type of cars even among the most die-hard petrolheads ;)

Hybrids take the worst points of both carbon based fuels and chemical storage and merge them together to form a tremendous fail.

You despise everything that does not run exclusively off petrol, after 13k posts this is a widely known fact but also a very partial vision of the problem :shrug:

Cities around the world are just too noisy and polluted to dismiss an ingenious attempt to circumvent this problem - everyday reality is not about 20 lucky guys racing at some circuit, it's about zillions of shopping carts going forth and back, back and forth.

Those carts must be as safe, quiet and economic as they can.

Prius' fuel consumption is on par with a modern direct-injected turbo diesel without the need for a particulate filter, and that car is quieter than any ICE powered vehicle. In a urban environment it will do its best which is exactly where ICE vehicles fail big time.

Best thing is the Prius has been around for quite some time, so it's not a permanent 'up and coming' like hydrogen-powered cars which is something I've heard babbling about for what? 20 years at least? and still nothing.

It's still a bit expensive but people are happy to spend just as much for a much more traditional (=obsolete) car just because it bears a badge which some marketing genius has turned into some kind of sign of distinction :)

[tristancliffe]

The trouble about quoting the Prius is that it's an epic fail - it's not any greener than a conventional car. It uses more energy per unit to produce, and more energy per unit to dispose of afterwards.

I'm not totally against alternative fuels at all. It's just that I don't agree that half-hearted, poorly executed attempts at them (solar powered, hybrids, electrics) do anything to help the problem. We're running out of fossil fuels (if you believe the scare mongering). So we need something to replace it. Batteries don't, directly (though, of course, they could be powered by nuclear power stations, but there isn't the nuclear programme requried to do that, whilst renewables are just gimmicks and can't produce the required power). Hybrids might slow the process down a tiny tiny tiny bit, but it's hardly worth bothering about, and the increase fuel needed to make them in the first place probably destroys all credibility they might have had. Solar isn't viable for cars - too expensive, too fragile, and what's more not all that great for the environment either (though not as bad as a few years ago).

The thing to do is find a different SOURCE of energy, not attempt to use what we've got more efficiently (because those gains are, in the whole world, miniscule). Nuclear has a LOT of good points with very few drawbacks, but isn't really suitable at the current time to personal (as opposed to personnel) transport. Hydrogen works at both the small and the large scale, so is likely to win the race at the moment in the very long term. Other technologies will come and go - some will be better than others. But to say that Hybrids are even remotely greener than a nice V12 carburetted engine is just silly.

[BigPeBe]

I don't like how pure matter of taste is being turned into a debate.

I just don't like electric cars, never gonna like them. I don't care if electric car does 0-100 in 1 seconds, it's still boring for me.

Racing cars make me feel something in my heart, electric cars don't do that.

If someday there will be a popular electric cars championship, it may attract people, but I know I'm not one of the people watching it.

If someone would let me choose between two cars, oldskool Escort mk2 with 1600 crossflow engine with twin 40's making 100bhp or a modern electric-super-car with the most awesome performance and everything, I would definitely choose the Escort and even have more fun driving it.

I can't fully describe a so called "proper car" there's no words for it, but I know my heart tells me what is a one. ;)

[Chrisuu01]

Chris, Youre and R3DMAN's reply's are just completely useless.
Since when do we say that Obama will become a good president but he cant because hes a Newb. Thats just weird guys. Having a good pair of brains and respecting the work of the devs and being happy enough with a Scirocco doesnt relate that i joined the community in Jule.
Really guys. Think before you speak.

I never said i dont recpect the devs I l;ove their work why are u saying things I never said?:x
Its just i can somehwat understand the frusttration but at the same time popel take LFS way to serious.
If i liturly typed that i dislike LFS WICH I DON'T the u could quite and take a pis aat me but what u are doing now is just below the bar dude.
So please for the love of god don't make it look like i said things i DID NOT SAY!!!

So how dare u insulting me and since when did I say anything about obama.
So pleas think before you speak yourself to!!

[richo]

A Prius might be considered eco friendly if you dont consider the amount of energy and waste to make the the thing in the first place.

Batteries just dont cut it at this time and the cost to the environment disposing of them is horrific (there full of bad shit guys).

While they keep pumping that black stuff out of the ground there will never be a great leap forward , not to mention i,m 45 and i have waiting for flying cars all my life as promised by many a tv show :)

[tristancliffe]

Can we get lerts to forget about pendulums, and design a flux capacitor instead?

[Chrisuu01]

Can we get lerts to forget about pendulums, and design a flux capacitor instead?


We could try that but what does that thing actualy run on?

[NightShift]

The thing to do is find a different SOURCE of energy, not attempt to use what we've got more efficiently (because those gains are, in the whole world, miniscule).

While I agree on the first part of this sentence, the nature of research is such that you don't really know when a new "green" energy source is going to be found and then industrialized to the point it can be used in everyday life.

The problem is nuclear is that, AFAICT, fusion reactors can't sustain themselves yet, and fission, if you account for the decommissioning/security-related costs, is a complete failure unless you externalize those by placing the plants in some developing country when you can buy the security bodies cheap and then dig a hole under some kindergarten to hide the radioactive waste :shrug:

The savings coming from the use of more efficient engines and cars, and alternative energies are buying us more time to find something else.

Regarding the Prius TCO issue, manufacturing cars is indeed very energy intensive but I wouldn't be so sure that the Prius is significantly worse than a less efficient vehicle. That however wouldn't address the problem with public health costs soaring because of high pollution (and noise) levels in urban centers.

But to say that Hybrids are even remotely greener than a nice V12 carburetted engine is just silly.

LOL, this could easily end up in someone's sig :)

[Mazz4200]

We could try that but what does that thing actualy run on?
Pendulum = Gravity

Flux Capacitor = Old banana skins and Pepsi

Lerts = Drugs, alcohol and spending too much time on his own

[hagenisse]

You people not liking electric cars, have you driven the Tesla? I have, and yes, its shitty build quality (but so is an elise!), it weights way too much for its size, and it has very limited range.. but it still is fantastic.

The feeling when it accelerates can't be described. You get supercar-acceleration, and you are still able to hear the birds. :D:nod:

[Shotglass]

Solar is NOT a good idea.

yeah something thats worked brilliantly to power the world for give or take 4 billion years is a bad idea

Hydrogen works at both the small and the large scale, so is likely to win the race at the moment in the very long term.

excuse me? you claim that batteries which have an efficiency somewhere in the 90s have a bad efficiency and then go around claiming that hydrogen the production of which has an efficiency at aroun 50 is the answer?
you do talk a lot of rubbish for someone with an engineering degree

[Peaknik]

Regarding hydrogen vs batteries, and, in general, all energy systems, simplicity is key. For each transformation, transmission, storage in the life cycle of an energy vector, you'll get thermodynamic losses. So, in that sense, it seems that hydrogen is not competitive enough with batteries. Let's see the steps from "well to wheel" for each vector:

http://www.physorg.com/newman/gfx/news/2006/HydrogenChart.jpg

As you can see, today, the life cycle efficiency of the batteries is better. You can read more about this graphic here (http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html).

If you ask me, I'd say that the key is not the technology (although we are close to peak oil and we must go past the internal combustion engine), but the use. The private vehicle must go, except for some uses (farmers, people in remote areas, some professionals), car sharing and good public transport is the answer. And for everything else, LFS!

[Shotglass]

The private vehicle must go

you were doing so well up until that point

[Peaknik]

you were doing so well up until that point

Kinda sucks, eh?

Thanks god we have LFS!

[Shotglass]

no thank god your strange fantasy will never become a reality

[hrtburnout]

Chris, Youre and R3DMAN's reply's are just completely useless.
Since when do we say that Obama will become a good president but he cant because hes a Newb. Thats just weird guys. Having a good pair of brains and respecting the work of the devs and being happy enough with a Scirocco doesnt relate that i joined the community in Jule.
Really guys. Think before you speak.

There's your problem. If you were around for a little longer (about three years), you'd know that the difference between announcement and release is about two years.

You're new to this: you don't know everything here yet. Accept it, instead of throwing mud and making useless comparisons.

You said we should enjoy LFS for what we have now. The problem is that we have done so for quite a long time now; far longer than you've been around.

[flymike91]

The feeling when it accelerates can't be described. You get supercar-acceleration, and you are still able to hear the birds. :D:nod:
Have you driven it? afaik the only ones sold are in California. I'm taking one for a test drive in two weeks just to see how it goes. I may even be convinced its an ok car...maybe :razz:

The private vehicle must go, except for some uses (farmers, people in remote areas, some professionals), car sharing and good public transport is the answer. And for everything else, LFS!
omg commie pinko
jk
thats a terrible idea, last time I took a subway I was slapped by a drunk hobo because I dont like rap music. He licked his hand and slapped me with it. No one does that in my car. The great thing about private cars is that you can lock out the crazy and smelly people who take buses and trains.

Carpooling is ok, I carpool with my neighbor and she is sexy so its works well for me.

[ZORER]

The concept of "transportation done using fossil based energy" is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid which proves human being is not so clever as we were told. We should be clever and use free&clean energy like Geothermal, Wave&tide or sunlight. But offcourse it won't happen. Otherwise how the hell would great oil companies get greater and wealthier and provide us better and cleaner fuel to use in our cars. :x
The electric cars on the market today are really "a new hope" for a less-polluted earth. While it's only the beginning of their evolution, everyone should support at least the idea. More the people talk about electric cars, higher the pressure on companies about finding a way to produce cheap electric. So, i think we really should have an electric car in our simulator, just to spread the idea or to keep it fresh.

[JJ72]

The concept of "transportation done using fossil based energy" is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid which proves human being is not so clever as we were told. We should be clever and use free&clean energy like Geothermal, Wave&tide or sunlight. But offcourse it won't happen. Otherwise how the hell would great oil companies get greater and wealthier and provide us better and cleaner fuel to use in our cars. :x
The electric cars on the market today are really "a new hope" for a less-polluted earth. While it's only the beginning of their evolution, everyone should support at least the idea. More the people talk about electric cars, higher the pressure on companies about finding a way to produce cheap electric. So, i think we really should have an electric car in our simulator, just to spread the idea or to keep it fresh.

I object.

electric car for common boring daiily commune - great.

electric car for racing - no.

turning a racing simlulator into a promotional activity for a green movement - no.

[squidhead]

the car that would boost LFS, and the automotive world, is the Tesla Roadster.

Because we will be able to save fuel and not to harm Blackwood's environment? The races would have to be 2 laps though...

(I'd rather live in a post nuclear wasteland, driving a proper car, rather than drive a G-wiz or a prius to preserve the earth...)

[JJ72]

Because we will be able to save fuel and not to harm Blackwood's environment? The races would have to be 2 laps though...

well come to think of it, at least for the first time no one would complain about the sound.......:scratchch

[Gunn]

well come to think of it, at least for the first time no one would complain about the sound.......:scratchchHeh, you're quite optimistic. Surely someone would still complain. :nod:

[ZORER]

I object.

electric car for common boring daiily commune - great.

electric car for racing - no.

turning a racing simlulator into a promotional activity for a green movement - no.
We already have UF1 which is really slow. What's the problem having another slow car (electric car) which would make good sensation over the racing community?


(I'd rather live in a post nuclear wasteland, driving a proper car, rather than drive a G-wiz or a prius to preserve the earth...)
That's the problem.You won't be able to live in a post nuclear wasteland. No clean world, no healthy life. Take it serious.

[Peaknik]

180mph is a bit unnessescary dont you think?

No, it is necesssary for a lot of people, since cars aren't just a tool for satisfying your mobilty needs, but something else.

Haven't you seen all those car comercials? It is all about style, sensations, affirmation of your personality (coincidentally, all of this leads you to desire what they are pushing to you).

We need 180 mph cars to feel ourselves "complete", everything else be damned.

[flymike91]

well some people actually enjoy driving, whether it be to and from work or on the track. They want a car that is quick, responsive, and when the time is right, fast as f***. When they are stuck in a car that is slow, soft, and boring then of course they are unsatisfied. Whether you need to go 180 mph or not, it is usually those cars that are the most satisfying to drive in regular circumstances.

I love driving my car and its a 2.5 ton 22 foot long station wagon. it may not be stylish or efficient, but i dont care. If it is to convey my sense of style, it doesn't do a very good job. wood paneling has been out of fashion for quite a while :)
http://www.mercuryarchive.com/1979to1991/1984ColonyPark.jpg

[Stew2000]

Ginetta G50 EV.
http://www.ginettacars.com/roadcar_range.php

The Lightning Car.
http://www.lightningcarcompany.co.uk

[MAGGOT]

Also, the average American drives 60 miles a day. The longest NASCAR race is the Cola 600 (600 fricking miles). Why would any regular American consumer based electric car, nay ANY CAR, need to push the 800 miles mark? As long as they can go over 200 miles (which is the max that I drove in my trip from New York to the South in one day without stopping) then they are considered reasonable. (And electric cars can go even beyond that limit with lithium ion battery tech). Electric car may not be the answer to all of our problems. But they sure as hell beat the giant Hummers and SUV option....

I will not waste my time charging up my car every night. That is extremely inconvenient (not to mention it will wreak hell on the power grid)

The only real difference - as far as racing is concerned - would be the sound of the car :shrug: The rest would be pretty much the same. So while I certainly understand your statement, if you think about it it's not really based on any valid arguments.

I can't speak for all modern performance electric cars, but the Tesla's handling is supposedly crap on account of its excessive weight. No thanks.

Plus does electric cars even have a proper manual gearbox?

The Tesla, specifically, doesn't have a gearbox. It only has one gear.

The best idea is solar but right now we dont have the technology to reasonably apply it to vehicles so that's out the window for now

Speak for yourself, Solar is extremely hazardous to produce, and extremely inefficient and fragile. It will simply not work for everyday use.

Regarding the Prius TCO issue, manufacturing cars is indeed very energy intensive but I wouldn't be so sure that the Prius is significantly worse than a less efficient vehicle. That however wouldn't address the problem with public health costs soaring because of high pollution (and noise) levels in urban centers.

No, but it won't solve pollution in those urban centres, either. Not only that, but it will create devastating environmental issues in other places, too.

We should be clever and use free&clean energy like Geothermal, Wave&tide or sunlight.

Geothermal is not available for the whole world, and would be very difficult to implement into personal transportation. Same goes for tidal. Sunlight has already been addressed, all will not work.

But offcourse it won't happen. Otherwise how the hell would great oil companies get greater and wealthier and provide us better and cleaner fuel to use in our cars. :x

Wow, you're a conspiracy theorist, eh?

The electric cars on the market today are really "a new hope" for a less-polluted earth. While it's only the beginning of their evolution, everyone should support at least the idea. More the people talk about electric cars, higher the pressure on companies about finding a way to produce cheap electric.

An electric motor in a car is a fine idea... so long as it is not powered by the power grid and does not run on a plethora of batteries. A Hydrogran fuel cell-powered electric is the best solution to the problem at this point in time. It's clean, it has minimal effect (zero) on the power grid, and the infrastructre to keep fuel cells filled is practically already in place (gas stations. Some retrofitting needed, but still). Electric cars kill the environment to be produced, as well as to charge.


Most power stations on the planet are coal. These plants will need to produce more power to meet the energy demand for cars. Needless to say, these powerplants kill the environment, too. Additionally, the power grid will NOT handle everyone plugging in their cars every night so that they can run out for a jug of milk in the morning. The entire powergrid in every single country would need a complete and total overhaul - which is extremely expensive and time-consuming. Add to that the fact that most rural areas in most countries are not on the powergrid. The fact that not one person has mentioned any of this in this thread is alarming. None of you are looking at the whole picture, only a select portion of it - that is why we don't yet have a concrete solution (or even a plan) for this issue.

[red7]

I would rather see effort towards new tracks of course, but this would be a neat car to see:scratchch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYTkg4OFRW8


At 2723 pounds its a bit heavy for its size but once the Lithium-Ion batteries are replaced for a lighter more effective alternative(nanosafe used for the upcoming lightning GTS?) this car will be insanely quick. After all this is the first production year for tesla if I'm not mistaken. Think where they might be 5-10 years from now. A move to hub mounted motors perhaps?

[J.B.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYTkg4OFRW8




So he only got 55 Miles out of a full charge while thrashing it around a track all day? I've never heard them mention any MPG values during their usual track test. And then they even faked a scene where it ran it of juice which it didn't do in reality: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/16/tesla-clarifies-some-of-top-gears-mischaracterizations/

Also disappointed by James May who later in the show goes on about Hydrogen being the most abundant element in the universe instead of pointing out that a fuel cell is just a very complicated and inefficient battery whose only advantage is that it can be fueled up in a shorter time than a standard battery.

[NightShift]

Not only that, but it will create devastating environmental issues in other places, too.

On any given plant, you can use technologies which are too heavy, complicated or expensive to be applied on a passenger car.

So he only got 55 Miles out of a full charge while thrashing it around a track all day? I've never heard them mention any MPG values during their usual track test

:shrug: and anyway, the Tesla test is utterly boring which, considering what Top Gear basically sums up to, is like saying it's completely worthless (save for the power lap)

TBH given the chance to trust Jeremy Clarkson and his gang, or the PR gal of Tesla, I'd say 'none of the above'

[yoyoML]

I have a good argument, it is not a proper car.:razz:

And plus as how stupid it may be, car's sound is very important part of it.
Racing car has to sound like it's being nuts, if only thing it does is "bzzzzzzzzz" it doesn't make me feel anything.


Sounding like being on nuts doesn't make a good car. Much noise + much vibration = structure to take and damp that, or age real quick. Besides a quiet car lets you hear the tyres.


Plus does electric cars even have a proper manual gearbox?


Having a gearbox doesn't make a good car. It is best that the powerplant does not require a gearbox in the first place. A gearbox is heavy, has lots of moving parts, eats power and needs driver attention.


I want to smell the petrol.

Only important part of racing isn't who's gonna win. It's the cars making my heart beat going up and even feeling the sound on my chest.

Releasing a smell of petrol doesn't make a good car. Sure if you'd like to smell that it's your preference.

[red7]

This looks interesting:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Electric_Racing_Federation

While the infrastucture may not be there for hydrogen to power the world right now, creating limited amounts for racing purposes seems alot more possible. It would also remedy the issue of race distances that conventional battery powered EVs might have. Hydrogen tanks could be refilled during pit-stops.

One thing though, whats going to happen to the fuel cell and hydrogen when one smacks a wall at triple digits:schwitz:

[Stew2000]

Kaboom!
Or each part of the fuel delivery system will be amazingly protected.

[Victor]

I want to smell the petrol.

Only important part of racing isn't who's gonna win. It's the cars making my heart beat going up and even feeling the sound on my chest.Releasing a smell of petrol doesn't make a good car. Sure if you'd like to smell that it's your preference.

However for example F1 races would be way less exciting if they'd be electric. For tv they don't put extra car sounds in for no reason :) And when being there the F1 engines really add to the sensation. So does the smell of rubber and petrol.

I personally wonder if there will ever be serious racing series with electric cars. Even if they are technically better, I must agree the sensation is quite different _for spectators_ (which is what keeps racing series going in the first place. If noone would watch them, noone would bother to enter, apart from amateur races that are run purely for the fun of it).

[Sponge]

Let's keep the electric racing limited to R/C ;)

Diesel racing cars suck to listen too.. Electric is even harder to hear..

[Stew2000]

Electric cars have optional extra called a Sound Modulator.

[BigPeBe]

Sounding like being on nuts doesn't make a good car. Much noise + much vibration = structure to take and damp that, or age real quick. Besides a quiet car lets you hear the tyres.



Having a gearbox doesn't make a good car. It is best that the powerplant does not require a gearbox in the first place. A gearbox is heavy, has lots of moving parts, eats power and needs driver attention.



Releasing a smell of petrol doesn't make a good car. Sure if you'd like to smell that it's your preference.

You are not in the point.

And BTW why I would want to hear my tires better than I do already?

[Shotglass]

I will not waste my time charging up my car every night. That is extremely inconvenient

right so its an extreme waste of time to plug it into the wall after youve parked it in your garage and pull the plug the next morning?

not to mention it will wreak hell on the power grid

actually it will help the power companies a lot but apparently your understanding of how a power grid works isnt very deep

A Hydrogran fuel cell-powered electric is the best solution to the problem at this point in time. It's clean

water vapour is one of the strongest global warming agents and if condensed into droplets or ice one of the strongest global cooling agents... putting additional tons of it into the air every day could lead to any number of unpredictable effects and at the very least will make every country as miserable as england

it has minimal effect (zero) on the power grid

right so how would you produce the hydrogen then? magic? not to mention that charging a batter is much more efficient than electrolysis

The fact that not one person has mentioned any of this in this thread is alarming.

its your lack of knowledge on how power distribution works thats the alarming part

once the Lithium-Ion batteries are replaced for a lighter more effective alternative(nanosafe used for the upcoming lightning GTS?)

the lithium titanate batteries actually have a lower energy density

And then they even faked a scene where it ran it of juice which it didn't do in reality: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/16/tesla-clarifies-some-of-top-gears-mischaracterizations/

well tesla really deserves as much bad press as they can get but thats a different story

whose only advantage is that it can be fueled up in a shorter time than a standard battery.

the lithium titanate batteries (which for some stupid reason are only sold to oems) claim to be chargeable at up to 50c... reduce that to a much mroe batteryfriendly 10c and youre down to 6 minutes for a full charge
of course filling stations would have to have some rather massive power supplies to provide the charge current but its easily possible

I personally wonder if there will ever be serious racing series with electric cars.

if f1 keeps going the way they are electric cars could be much faster and thus more exciting in no time

[ZORER]

I will not waste my time charging up my car every night. That is extremely inconvenient (not to mention it will wreak hell on the power grid)

I can't speak for all modern performance electric cars, but the Tesla's handling is supposedly crap on account of its excessive weight. No thanks.

The Tesla, specifically, doesn't have a gearbox. It only has one gear.

Speak for yourself, Solar is extremely hazardous to produce, and extremely inefficient and fragile. It will simply not work for everyday use.

No, but it won't solve pollution in those urban centres, either. Not only that, but it will create devastating environmental issues in other places, too.

Geothermal is not available for the whole world, and would be very difficult to implement into personal transportation. Same goes for tidal. Sunlight has already been addressed, all will not work.

Wow, you're a conspiracy theorist, eh?

An electric motor in a car is a fine idea... so long as it is not powered by the power grid and does not run on a plethora of batteries. A Hydrogran fuel cell-powered electric is the best solution to the problem at this point in time. It's clean, it has minimal effect (zero) on the power grid, and the infrastructre to keep fuel cells filled is practically already in place (gas stations. Some retrofitting needed, but still). Electric cars kill the environment to be produced, as well as to charge.

Most power stations on the planet are coal. These plants will need to produce more power to meet the energy demand for cars. Needless to say, these powerplants kill the environment, too. Additionally, the power grid will NOT handle everyone plugging in their cars every night so that they can run out for a jug of milk in the morning. The entire powergrid in every single country would need a complete and total overhaul - which is extremely expensive and time-consuming. Add to that the fact that most rural areas in most countries are not on the powergrid. The fact that not one person has mentioned any of this in this thread is alarming. None of you are looking at the whole picture, only a select portion of it - that is why we don't yet have a concrete solution (or even a plan) for this issue.

Are you drunk?

You are the one who can't see the whole picture, not me. I 'm talking about the ideas of how to produce clean energy and you don't want to see it.
You work for Shell? or BP? You call it conspiracy. It is not conspiracy, it is reality. I see your knowledge is not deep at all.

Plugging your car into a damn hole is much quicker than stopping at a gas station. But i guess you were just kidding when you said you wouldn't be bothered to plug in your car every night.

Producing solar energy from sunlight is NOT HAZARDOUS AND IT IS FREE once we get into the next step of it's technology. And we're not far from it. Doesn't matter how hard you (petrol companies) try to slow down the progress, it'll be useable in the near future.(and it must)

Geothermal, tidal and sunlight...They will all WORK!!! if you have the ability to choose the correct one depending on your environment. They are not expensive than digging thousands of holes into the ground to check if there's petrol in there.(or digging for coal)
So you won't need coal-power stations. They are not more efficient than solar energy by the way.But much more polluting.

Scientists have solutions! Like transporting energy through different layers of the atmosphere and sending it to where needed. So who needs powerlines?

After all, they are all at "beta testing" stage. But they are real!
Try to keep up with tech news.So you'll have a better point of view and larger imagination.

[Peaknik]

Producing solar energy from sunlight is NOT HAZARDOUS AND IT IS FREE once we get into the next step of it's technology. And we're not far from it. Doesn't matter how hard you (petrol companies) try to slow down the progress, it'll be useable in the near future.(and it must)

THERE ARE NO FREE ENERGIES, also, there are no energy transformations (as energy can't be created nor destroyed) that are 100% efficient or 100% clean.

Wind, sunlight, are, in human civilization terms, unlimited and renewable, but the processes, machines that we use to harness, transform, transport and store them, aren't.

In fact, I doubt that without all the natural gas, oil and coal that we use, nuclear energy and renewable energy would run itself, with no external subsidy from the fossil fuels (who are, mind you, solar energy stored that we could use as an accumulation and not as flux).

Sure, some energy technologies are better than others under some circumstances, but there are not silver bullets here, unless you buy the fussion lotery ticket and act as if you were to win...

[ZORER]

THERE ARE NO FREE ENERGIES, also, there are no energy transformations (as energy can't be created nor destroyed) that are 100% efficient or 100% clean.


Oh yeah?
Do snakes pay bills to heat up their body under the sun and store some energy to go for a hunt????
THERE IS FREE ENERGY !!! But you must be clever to see it. At least, as clever as a snake...



Sure, some energy technologies are better than others under some circumstances, but there are not silver bullets here, unless you buy the fussion lotery ticket and act as if you were to win...

Try to see the difference. One is the energy we must use in near future, and the other is the one still destroying our future.

By the way, wtf is fusion lottery ??

[Peaknik]

Oh yeah?
Do snakes pay bills to heat up their body under the sun and store some energy to go for a hunt????
THERE IS FREE ENERGY !!! But you must be clever to see it. At least, as clever as a snake...

Very interesting observation! In fact the snakes pays a price... they must move to an area where they can warm up.

The key fact here is that you, the snake and me, all living beings, should get more than they invest when it comes about energy. In my opinion, this is a very important thing to consider when thinking about energy sources. Here (http://netenergy.theoildrum.com/node/4784) is a good website dedicated to study energy return on energy investment.

There are many references for "free energy", but almost all of them are perpeetuum mobiles that don't obbey physic laws (so they are a scam or their builders play tricks on themselves).

By the way, wtf is fusion lottery ??

I mean that you don't know for sure if we are going to solve all of the problems involved in using fusion to produce commercial energy. And acting as we would is, in my oppinion like using lottery tickets to pay your bills.

I suppose I am a bit of a prudent pessimist when it comes about the future!

[JJ72]

Electric cars have optional extra called a Sound Modulator.

and west coast custom will be brought in to fit every race car with a rocking audio system.........