XFG and Blackwood, a love story?

[Peaknik]

Hi all!

I have been driving for sometime now in LFS and being a newbie, the car I have put more miles in it is the XFG. I have raced also with XRG, FXO and FZ50, but although I have had much fun with them, I am returning to the XFG, and specially, to the XFG - 5 laps Blackwood combo.

I was wondering why is so popular this particular combination. XFG is not a fast car, and Blackwood, with its long back straight can be a little boring.

Why people set up more servers with the XFG instead of the more powerful XF GTR?

I have my own answers: XFG is not a fast car, is easy to drive, but because of this, driving a XFG to the limit (ie: racing under 1:34 in Blackwood) is very challenging! Specially if you drive in a tight pack (this rarely has happened to me...), you can only race fast if you race clean.

So what do you think?

Why the XF GTR is not being used more in Blackwood?
Why the XFG is so popular?

[Yisc[NL]]

I think it's so popular because it's in de demo for a long time.
I'm still loving XFG/BL1 after several years of racing but I have to admit I also like the FBM on BL1.
But my absolute favorit is FXR/AS2. If you want some tight racing with XFG on BL1 join our team (http://www.r-racing.nl/forum) and take part in our League13 competition.

[Gunn]

It has always been one of my favourite cars to drive and race. I do wish it had about ten extra horses and some decent tyres though, but all the same it's an honest little car that makes for some close racing.:thumbsup:

[Zen321]

It has always been one of my favourite cars to drive and race. I do wish it had about ten extra horses and some decent tyres though, but all the same it's an honest little car that makes for some close racing.:thumbsup:

I feel the same for the XRG... 100 less kilos and supers... and it would be a heck of a fight between this and the bodybuilded XFG version you speak in your earlier post.

A XFS(Gunn's idea)/XRS(my idea) Class anyone ? :thumbsup:

[spenceris]

I so much love this combination... im just racing and racing non stop with the XFG in BL... though i never tried the reversed track :shrug:

[Shadowww]

I so much love this combination... im just racing and racing non stop with the XFG in BL... though i never tried the reversed track :shrug:
you can't try a reverse track :thumb:

[Zen321]

you can't try a reverse track :thumb:

Can't the demo users try it, can they ?

[Calvinaquino]

I think that's because Everybody knows how to drive the XFG @ normal BLP...
damn, thats the only combo where i can have any high level competition...
(apart from FBM wich i don't know why, but i do very well in almost all tracks but specially AutoX)

[NotAnIllusion]

Can't the demo users try it, can they ?
Not anymore.

[S14 DRIFT]

I'm somewhat of a self proclaimed XFG master. (By that I mean 95% of my PB's are within 0.5 of a second of the WR on any of the road combos used on the CTRA Race1 server, and my normal racing pace within 0.3 of a second of any of those), and the only track I struggle at is Blackwood.

It's a nice track to drive round, but the rhythm seems impossible to get (for me, at least), often losing time at the chicane after the long straight. (when going forward, the one after the 90 degree right hander).

I guess it's easier for people who race(d) alot on demo servers in their past. :shrug:

Blackwood reversed is much nicer, it's more flowing and seems faster ;)

[Zen321]

I'm somewhat of a self proclaimed XFG master. (By that I mean 95% of my PB's are within 0.5 of a second of the WR on any of the road combos used on the CTRA Race1 server, and my normal racing pace within 0.3 of a second of any of those), and the only track I struggle at is Blackwood.

It's a nice track to drive round, but the rhythm seems impossible to get (for me, at least), often losing time at the chicane after the long straight. (when going forward, the one after the 90 degree right hander).

I guess it's easier for people who race(d) alot on demo servers in their past. :shrug:

Blackwood reversed is much nicer, it's more flowing and seems faster ;)

That is exactly what I feel. I just can't get BL1 right, while I have much less problems with BL1R. My main problem in this track is the right hander after the long-straight. Usually my car get a snap oversteer, and understeer badly there. :shrug: However, I am quite happy with my times on BL1R ^^

[S14 DRIFT]

That's my fave corner on the BL1 track, strong but smooth braking, keep left, but stay off of the curb, brake down to around 65 and use a trailing throttle to pull you round the bend, but alot depends on brake balance and small precise imputs.

[jbirdaspec]

That is exactly what I feel. I just can't get BL1 right, while I have much less problems with BL1R. My main problem in this track is the right hander after the long-straight. Usually my car get a snap oversteer, and understeer badly there. :shrug: However, I am quite happy with my times on BL1R ^^

If you don't do this already...Try blipping the throttle with down shifts when braking for the corner. Try and match the revs of the engine when the clutch engages. Don't be in a hurry to down shift the car. In a timely manner, but smooth. This will keep you front wheel from locking when braking or/and trail braking. If the front wheels don't lock or skip as much you will have less understeer. As for the oversteer try rocking the wheel to maintain grip and be on the throttle as much as possible without running the front end out to the sand. Keep the chassis loaded with torque from the engine as often as possible, but with out grinding them. If this is something you do already you might try tuning the dampers a bit with VHPA. Don't go to far with tuning sets though.

GOOD LUCK!\\
Jay

[chavm481]

i really like blackwood, and the xfg is real forgiving and you can do lots with it. i prefer the xfg over the xrg.

[S14 DRIFT]

If you don't do this already...Try blipping the throttle with down shifts when braking for the corner. Try and match the revs of the engine when the clutch engages. Don't be in a hurry to down shift the car. In a timely manner, but smooth. This will keep you front wheel from locking when braking or/and trail braking. If the front wheels don't lock or skip as much you will have less understeer. As for the oversteer try rocking the wheel to maintain grip and be on the throttle as much as possible without running the front end out to the sand. Keep the chassis loaded with torque from the engine as often as possible, but with out grinding them. If this is something you do already you might try tuning the dampers a bit with VHPA. Don't go to far with tuning sets though.

GOOD LUCK!\\
Jay

What works best, I find, is playing with the brake force, so that when you're braking, on a flat road (I actually use the corner in question on blackwood, the harpin on FE forward, and the harpin on SO forward to test this), is making the brake force so that under braking, having a manual pedal clutch, I use engine braking alot, so I can apply maximum pedal pressure and be at the very limit of locking the wheels, so I can really concentrate on braking without having to worry about the wheels locking up. :)

[Rappa Z]

I find that almost any car at Blackwood is an instant love story. FBM is my favorite.:thumb:

IMO, Aston is like having a one night stand which unfortunatly results in a pregnancy and gaining an STD.:x

[jbirdaspec]

What works best, I find, is playing with the brake force, so that when you're braking, on a flat road (I actually use the corner in question on blackwood, the harpin on FE forward, and the harpin on SO forward to test this), is making the brake force so that under braking, having a manual pedal clutch, I use engine braking alot, so I can apply maximum pedal pressure and be at the very limit of locking the wheels, so I can really concentrate on braking without having to worry about the wheels locking up. :)

I agree that optimizing your force will help with wheel lock and over/understeer . At the same time though with changing tire temps and wear the tires are never the same from one corning to another. I prefer to have brakes that will lock, not to the extreme of course, but still lock so you always adjust to situation and still have maximum braking ability. If you can't lock the brakes very much, you can stop to the full potential of the tires at the moment it counts. Since I clutch with my left, i blip with my right side of my right foot or towards the heal of my right foot depending on what flows well for that corner. I like blipping to help prevent wheel lock because the jar of the transmission engaging is lessened. Plus correctly done helps the cars attitude to remain true and driver initiated. I found i could make a RWD car looser in the backend resulting in better flow into corners because I didn't have to fight as much on turn in while blipping the throttle. Just my 2 cents and this is part of my driving style that might not fit another driver.

[Electrik Kar]

That is exactly what I feel. I just can't get BL1 right,

This is what brings me back to BL1/XFG time after time. Before patch Y(?), my PB was about a sec off the WR which is something of a major achievement for me- I couldn't get it together after the patch though. Now I'm struggling to keep it under 1.40 as I've just bought a wheel and trying to get used to that. Hotlapping with a G25 now instead of mouse is a totally new experience, it's absolutely a blast and I'm delighted that LFS has become so extraordinarily fresh again. I'm back to BL1/XFG of course...

*hitting that last curb before the starting straight is really fun with FF :)

[chavm481]

how can we get out license revoked and go back to demo?

[jbirdaspec]

how can we get out license revoked and go back to demo?

I know a few guys that would take it off your hands if you don't need it. :D

[Calvinaquino]

After some races in CTRA (hoping for the BLGP XFG combo) i started to notice that while slightly slower, with the XRG i get more stable times, sometimes even faster times. I think thats because i slip too much with XFG... and i got the skills to drive a RWD car with mouse. :tilt:

[cathal50cc]

TBH i do, most of my racing on demo and i have on and off days and on the corner at the endo of the straight u should get a little slide/ oversteer its the same with all the corners really not to much or u will lose about 5 to 10mph over the other racers and try to brake at the 100 marker on the corner " the end of the straight keep the fron tyre on the right curb going threw it and power down about half way threw the corner and u should slingshot up 2 70/75 mph by the time u reach the left hand side curb hope i help some of u a little bit :tilt: :thumb:

[orange_boy_uk]

It has always been one of my favourite cars to drive and race. I do wish it had about ten extra horses and some decent tyres though, but all the same it's an honest little car that makes for some close racing.:thumbsup:

To be honest it's got way more power then most 1.3 engines out there..115BHP for 1.3. That's more like what a 1.6/1.8 car has.

[cathal50cc]

To be honest it's got way more power then most 1.3 engines out there..115BHP for 1.3. That's more like what a 1.6/1.8 car has.
Very true but if i remember correctly its a 1.3 twincam i think not sure tho
And yes a normal 1.3 would only have about 80/90 HP 1.6 should be along the 100s and 1.8 should be 110 upwords towards the 125

[S14 DRIFT]

With modern technology. variable valve timing, twin cams, modern materials etc, a 1.3 can easily push out 100bhp+ in a road going application.

There was one a couple of years ago, a korean car (forgot the name, it had 115ish BHP from its 1.3l engine), but the only one off the top of my head I can remember is the Daihatsu Charade 1.3 GTI :o)

97bhp, well... near enough :D

But this was nearly 10 years ago now, so as you see, we progress :)

[NightShift]

Now I'm struggling to keep it under 1.40 as I've just bought a wheel and trying to get used to that.

When I switched from the pad to the wheel I was left with the impression that the time spent on the other controller was basically wasted.

The pad was just more like learning the tricks rather than feeling and understanding what was happening. I had to start back from scratch, but now I'm finding it a little bit easier to change to a different track or car.

The situation is probably better with mouse, but I've learnt here of several fast drivers who don't really want to switch to other controllers no matter what, I guessed there might be more to it than just me completely snailfast :D

With modern technology. variable valve timing, twin cams, modern materials etc, a 1.3 can easily push out 100bhp+ in a road going application.

Modern technology? :D Does TU2 ring a bell? A slightly oversquare SOHC and no thrills :D And I'm sure ehrm more mature chaps can come up with even better (=older) examples.

Having top end power is just a matter of choosing a fitting cam profile, you'll end up with a peaky engine which is little or no good in the traffic, but in LFS we rarely rev it under 5k anyway (though the XFG pulls maybe a little too much from the low range)

Modern technology is all about safety, emission control and fuel economy, those do not rhyme with performance at all.

And besides, the entire hot hatch concept is out of fashion, even the small turbo GDI engines that are coming up are likely to be just variations on the emission control theme.

[Electrik Kar]

When I switched from the pad to the wheel I was left with the impression that the time spent on the other controller was basically wasted.

I'm feeling the same way. It's compounded to by the fact that I haven't picked up LFS for months, and was out of it even when using the mouse. :schwitz: It's taken a bit to understand what is happening with the FF- the forces didn't feel natural at first and I was put off- now though it's all starting to settle in. I'm really happy I've finally made the switch as I can begin to see LFS really opening up, becoming a whole new thing.

*also, I have a new excuse to be crap.

[The Radness]

For some reason, I hate Blackwood. Maybe I should say that I Hate the long straight, especially in the slower cars. The rest of the track is fun, but I could probably take a nap on the back stretch.

[Zen321]

If you don't do this already...Try blipping the throttle with down shifts when braking for the corner. Try and match the revs of the engine when the clutch engages. Don't be in a hurry to down shift the car. In a timely manner, but smooth. This will keep you front wheel from locking when braking or/and trail braking. If the front wheels don't lock or skip as much you will have less understeer. As for the oversteer try rocking the wheel to maintain grip and be on the throttle as much as possible without running the front end out to the sand. Keep the chassis loaded with torque from the engine as often as possible, but with out grinding them. If this is something you do already you might try tuning the dampers a bit with VHPA. Don't go to far with tuning sets though.

GOOD LUCK!\\
Jay

I'm sorry, I was speaking of the XRG instead of the XFG ;) Yeah, I do blip on downshifts (it's fun and efficient, so :p) and my downshifting is acceptable. What surprises me is that I made a set of sets keeping the same pattern for different tracks, and I can do quite well in game, but this corner is like the only corner I can't get good (However, I can get it in rev, without much problem).
Because I think going in BL1 this corners should be a late apex one, to carry enough momentum. The only thing is that I find that the radius is lower at the end of this corner. In that case, I have some problems to get it right, because I aim for a late apex (otherwise, I just go in too early :shrug:).
I think my line is the main problem. I can not really find the entry point, the appropriate speed, and the apex for this corner, now matter how hard I watched WR replays :shrug:

[RedCoupe]

I think a lot of it has to do with peoples familiarity with it.
as much as people like and want new content, Nothing like a track and car you know like the back of your hand.

Plus, Blackwood Reverse make my pants tight...

[S14 DRIFT]

Shame CTRA decided to take it off their rotation of maps on the Race 1 server, with the excuse being some crap about yellow flags not working propperly.

No-one cares, just get the damn track :(

[Zen321]

Shame CTRA decided to take it off their rotation of maps on the Race 1 server, with the excuse being some crap about yellow flags not working propperly.

No-one cares, just get the damn track :(

I think it is because it has accessible from demo :p (Unless they put a cone somewhere in the pitway :shrug:)

[S14 DRIFT]

Idk about that. I could swear I heard because of yellow flags not working propperly.

Besides, BL1 is accessible from demo, and that's on there, so why not BL1r? :(

[NotAnIllusion]

It's down to Blackwood causing fake yellows which would affect the CTRA stats.

[RudiTurbo]

There will be a 60 laps XFG XRG Blackwood Race in OLFSL next sunday :)
www.lfs-league.com :)

[gezmoor]

I think it's just a case of familiarity.. For most people at least it is probably the combo they are most competant on due to having driven it on the Demo before getting an S2 license.

I have to say though that my tin top is the UF-BR. It's also the one I'm consistantly most competitive in on, (relatively speaking). Which I guess says a lot about my driving ability, ie underpowered car with load of grip. :shrug:

[N I K I]

I find nose to tail racing in XFG very rewarding.
When you're so close with your front bumper to opponents rear bumper in corner (let's say under 10cm) and you live thru all this from cockpit camera witch really gives some special feeling when you have this situation in XFG it's so rewarding.
This situations on good old Blackwood has special feeling, since corners aren't too fast, nor too slow they're just perfect and the tracks is perfectly wide too

Also Blackwood is in demo for ages and XFG and XRG are demo cars. Now let's forget that XFG is easier to drive, just try to live thru the same nose to tail situation but from XRG. Naaaah it's not the same. And there's no signs of those small understeer nose skips in this situation witch just put you even closer, instead your rear end just skips away and yet that's wrong too, it's sloppy, havy and puts the joy of nose to tail racing away. On other side same cockpit, but in XRT is 10x more rewarding then in XRG or even XFG. :)

Door to door racing is also great on this combo. Trying to hold on around outside with those poor tires can be very challenging :D

[NightShift]

just try to live thru the same nose to tail situation but from XRG. Naaaah it's not the same.

If we're going to play XF vs XR, the latter lacks the snappy feeling. Not only the XF is more straightforward to drive, but faster through the corners and the high revving engine sounds and feels more sporty than the XR.

Don't get me wrong, I like the XR but it felt like a boat rather then a car for quite some time... I've started to develop a relationship with the thing just recently :)

[cathal50cc]

If we're going to play XF vs XR, the latter lacks the snappy feeling. Not only the XF is more straightforward to drive, but faster through the corners and the high revving engine sounds and feels more sporty than the XR.

Don't get me wrong, I like the XR but it felt like a boat rather then a car for quite some time... I've started to develop a relationship with the thing just recently :)
XRG can goe faster in corners if u try u gotta let it drift a lil bit

[S14 DRIFT]

No matter what you do, ultimate cornering speed in the XRG will be lower than the XFG.

On faster tracks with less slower bends (where the speed difference is more noticable), for example on SO Classic or Blackwood, the XRG will be faster, because of it's much faster acceleration and top speed. On a more twisty track, or ones with more slower corners, the XFG can get it's power down better.

The XFG is an easy car to drive. Therefore, to be very good in the XFG, it's much harder than that.

The XRG is much more of an aquired skill, with some people naturally taking to it more than others. Tbh alot of it is just a feel for the cars in LFS in general.

[anttt69]

I'm somewhat of a self proclaimed XFG master. (By that I mean 95% of my PB's are within 0.5 of a second of the WR on any of the road combos used on the CTRA Race1 server, and my normal racing pace within 0.3 of a second of any of those), and the only track I struggle at is Blackwood.



If your that good you might aswell put your XFG prowess to the test & join the 60 laps OLFSL race this Sunday, it's sure to sort the men from the boys.

BL1 XFG/XRG 60 Laps Race - thisSunday (http://www.lfs-league.com/)

[S14 DRIFT]

I'm somewhat of a self proclaimed XFG master. (By that I mean 95% of my PB's are within 0.5 of a second of the WR on any of the road combos used on the CTRA Race1 server, and my normal racing pace within 0.3 of a second of any of those), and the only track I struggle at is Blackwood.

Thanks for the invite, but next time, read what I wrote :p

[NightShift]

Guess he was sort of challenging you to get better :)

[S14 DRIFT]

I suck at BL1. I've done like 600 laps to try and improve but I just can't get it. :razz:

[GTR_Yuni]

No matter what car I drive on Blackwood, no matter what version of LFS it was (from the old S1 to the public S2 versions), the track is always a thrill. There's something about this track that keeps me err, coming for more.

[gezmoor]

If we're going to play XF vs XR, the latter lacks the snappy feeling. Not only the XF is more straightforward to drive, but faster through the corners and the high revving engine sounds and feels more sporty than the XR.

Don't get me wrong, I like the XR but it felt like a boat rather then a car for quite some time... I've started to develop a relationship with the thing just recently :)


Pretty much sums up my feelings for the two cars, except the "I like the XR" bit. I hate it, and for exactly the reason you stated. It just wallows all over the place, understeers in to a corner and then wants to swing its rear around no matter what kind of throttle you have mid corner. I once made a joke about having to use a jib and tiller to drive the thing and nothing has changed my mind about it since. :(

[NightShift]

nothing has changed my mind about it since. :(

For me it was likely a matter of putting some time on it, in an occasional and non committed fashion. I put my expectations aside and tried to avoid overdriving it, especially on corner entry, which is quite easy if you're used to the XF: the XR is heavier and has slim tyres (if there was no need for balancing them in the STD class, the XR would likely be more pleasant)

Most sets for the XF I've seen are rather tail happy even when stepping on the gas, but in a way that can be controlled with the steer only, while the XR likes to be turned part with the wheel and part with the throttle.

I'm still slower with the XR, but it's rewarding when you start getting the hang of it :)

[cathal50cc]

the XR likes to be turned part with the wheel and part with the throttle. very true XR needs throttle control and steering control but it still is a very soft car like its suposed 2 be a luxury car or something i really dont no how ppl can get 32.9x with it its astonashing :shrug:

[mheee]

i think the only reason is that everyone can't have a s2,but they love lfs too.....