Join "realistic players that know that harder doesn't mean better" club

[JeffR]

Someone had to start this thread.

[AndroidXP]

You should join the "I completely misunderstood Tristan's thread title club".

[JeffR]

You should join the "I completely misunderstood Tristan's thread title club".I looked for that thread, and I did a web search, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, in classic sense of "point and counterpoint" (I loved the Saturday Night live parodies of this old program, Jane you ignorant sl*t ...), I felt this thread was needed.

[anbiddulph]

I looked for that thread, and I did a web search, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, in classic sense of "point and counterpoint" (I loved the Saturday Night live parodies of this old program, Jane you ignorant sl*t ...), I felt this thread was needed.
you couldnt find it... ITS A FEW THREADS DOWN FROM THIS ONE!

[tristancliffe]

This post is for morons. If you are a moron, please read it. Thanks. Post continues below...

Join the "We're glad LFS is harder and more realistic now" club

The presence of AND (my bold added) implies that the sim is not more realistic BECAUSE it's harder, but it's more realistic AND harder. The realism is obvious (clutch heat, inertias, rev limits etc) and the harder was because the driving was more involved, with less computer assistance. This is still true unless you drive a racing sim with two joysticks and various hacks because you are too hamfisted to do it yourself.

However, we here do appreciate a sense of humour. If you emigrate you might get one.

[sinbad]

Am I a realistic player, or a real player, or an unrealistic player? I just don't know any more.
I sort of get jeffR's "message", I had a similar thought when the WGLIHAMRN club thread first arrived, but man, you must be bored to actually go to such petty lengths in order to have another argument with Tristancliffe.

[Hyperactive]

I find the other thread just awkwardly funny for the simple reason that by reading it one could come into the conclusion that something noticeable happened in the way you drive or race. It's still flatshifting, jamming the gears in and all that, like it was before. With some cars you may not be able to drive like a complete tool anymore but that's all really.

Awkward is the word that describes that other thread perfectly. This thread is just silly.

As for morons these both threads do just fine in that area :scratchch

[DevilDare]

this club fails, i think i'll just stay in tristan's club :thumb:

[JeffR]

have another argument with Tristancliffe.Actually this is a secret ploy to give the developers a bit more incentive to do the next release, so us bored players will have something better to do than post here.

[garph]

Actually this is a secret ploy to give the developers a bit more incentive to do the next release, so us bored players will have something better to do than post here.
...I'd just walk away form this one, don't think you're gonna pull it back or get what you want.

Either way.
http://www.shipmentoffail.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/chippenfail-fail-picture-funny-db7l.jpg

[JeffR]

get what you want.I'm not wanting anything here. As Tristan pointed out, I use twin joysticks with scripted auto-blip, auto-cut, none of this stuff has ever affected my gameplay. Heck, I was using auto-cut for no-damage hot laps with Grand Prix Legends just because it sounded more realistic, even though there was no issue with flat shifting for GPL hot laps (always damage off). Maybe someday I'll make a script to run an entire hot lap at Blackwood.

Actually there is a point to this. Regarding realism why does LFS support keyboard play? iRacing states that a wheel and pedals are required (as opposed to recommended). Why not bump the LFS requirement to only allow wheel and pedal sets with a clutch, that's more realistic. What's a happy medium here?

Now, when's that next LFS release coming out?

[garph]

......errr, yeah. Let's back up here.

What is your original problem/point or what do you want changed that prompted you to start this thread?

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

This should get interesting... (edit: at least comparatively speaking)

/subscribe

[JeffR]

prompted you to start this thread?There's the WGLIHAMRN thread, so I felt a counterpoint thread was needed to balance things out.

[tristancliffe]

Except you still haven't realised that that thread was a counterpoint itself, and your thread throws out the balance it seeked to restore ;)

[ColeusRattus]

I think that the reaction came a tad late (in fact, more than a patch late...)

Also, I think that there are way better ways to engage tristan in a discussion that this rather pointless thread.

Put perhaps I'll start my ISMTOTFTOTT club.

A cookie to the one who gets the abbreviation (doesn't have to be to the letter, just the meaning should be the same)

[garph]

Put perhaps I'll start my ISMTOTFTOTT club.

A cookie to the one who gets the abbreviation (doesn't have to be to the letter, just the meaning should be the same)

I Sometimes Masturbate Too Often; This Frequently Troubles Other Travellers Transit?

[tristancliffe]

Replace transit with trauma and you're there!

Edit: Must read whole post properly, several times. Doh!

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

except You Still Haven't Realised That That Thread Was A Counterpoint Itself, And Your Thread Throws Out The Balance It sought To Restore ;)

Ftfy :)

[ColeusRattus]

Quite far off.
Allthough since my GF went to tampere for a semester abroad, my righ arm has become considerably stronger...

[JeffR]

Except you still haven't realised that that thread was a counterpoint itself, and your thread throws out the balance it seeked to restoreYes, but that thread has so many posts now, there needed to be some counter balance. Plus, I'm still waiting for the next release of LFS.

[Mille Sabords]

I agree!
I want an arcade mode with no damage and easier to drive cause I crash each turn above 200mph, that is too hard
I want an option to eliminate tyre heating and clutch heating for drifting and cruising
I want auto setup options to find the best setup for a track

And I want the XRT back...

Oh wait, wrong thread again?

:doh:

[tristancliffe]

Part of me REALLY hopes Scawen reads this and removes yet more things from LFS that cater for people that can't drive, just so that Jeff's head explodes in fury than anyone dare give him a hard time in a driving sim. He might have to buy an extra joystick!

[Dajmin]

Wait, motor racing is HARD? Surely not!

Need For Speed says I can take right angle corners at 400mph and use the railings to turn, so that must work IRL, right? And changing my paint makes me teh fasta!11lol

What on earth is hard about moving a high-speed object around a twisting track while avoiding obstacles, trying to predict what rivals are going to do and estimate optimal shifting and braking points, slipstreams and the best spots to make aggressive moves while protecting your own position, avoiding damage and keeping an eye on fuel levels, tyre temperatures and wear, and changing weather conditions?

Oh right, that.

[JeffR]

Part of me REALLY hopes Scawen reads this and removes yet more things from LFS that cater for people that can't drive, just so that Jeff's head explodes in fury than anyone dare give him a hard time in a driving sim. He might have to buy an extra joystick!Nah, I'll just create more scripts.

[tristancliffe]

Then why oh why do you choose to play a 'realistic driving simulator' with two joysticks and more scripts than you can shake a stick at? I think you've completely missed the point of LFS, and I can see now why you are a big fan of Need For Speed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You clearly have a brain. You clearly know how to use it. And you are clearly not poor. Yet somehow you miss the point of everything to do with driving simulators and forum discussions.

[HVS5b]

Put perhaps I'll start my ISMTOTFTOTT club.

A cookie to the one who gets the abbreviation (doesn't have to be to the letter, just the meaning should be the same)

The next patch is at Xmas. Expect nonsense on the forums till then :D

[Hyperactive]

The next patch is at Xmas.

I'd take that as a guess. Iirc no dates have been mentioned.

[JeffR]

Then why oh why do you choose to play a 'realistic driving simulator' with two joysticks and more scripts than you can shake a stick at?I'm lazy, and the sticks are good enough for me (a few single stick players have a GPL rank of -50 or better, so it can't be that bad). I'll buy another wheel and pedals when I'm motivated.

I think you've completely missed the point of LFS, and I can see now why you are a big fan of Need For Speed.They're both racing games, LFS is a lot more realistic, NFS has pursuits. I also like the Tomb Raider series, and although arcadish, they recently improved the realism with the addition of "jiggle".

I understand the point of LFS is realism, but there are compromises made, such as allowing players to use a keyboard as a controller. If keyboards are OK, then why not shared axis controllers, like joysticks or cheap wheel and pedal sets? I'd actually like to get a G25 wheel and pedal set, but the G25 clamping system seems to be incompatable with my computer desk.

[Dajmin]

You can't say you're a fan of realism and then promote the idea of using a completely unrealistic control method. Look it up (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realism).

You want to feel like you're driving a car, but without the steering wheel. I don't know many cars that use dual sticks to control, so that's not realistic in the slightest.

You could say you were a fan of realistic physics though, that might help save you from this pit you dug yourself.

[HVS5b]

I'd take that as a guess. Iirc no dates have been mentioned.

Pure unadulterated speculation :tilt: Just having a guess at the acronym.

[Hyperactive]

You can't say you're a fan of realism and then promote the idea of using a completely unrealistic control method. Look it up (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realism).

You want to feel like you're driving a car, but without the steering wheel. I don't know many cars that use dual sticks to control, so that's not realistic in the slightest.

Being fan of realism doesn't necessarily mean that your equipment should reflect it. You can be hardcore realism wannabe like me who uses 57 years-old non-FF steering wheel and two pedals or then you could have the supermario kart hardcore guy who has built 1:1 mario kart motion sim and all into his living room. Realism on the sim is the realism lfs should go for, the end-user interface just creates immersion. Surely some controls are more realistic than others and lfs should enforce that to a degree but in the end it's a question of what is sensible, doable and comfortable. Two joystics is just fine, it's something you could imagine seeing in real car as well. Not as realistic or immersive as steering wheel but still enouigh close for me to let it go without mentioning how lazy jeffR must be :tilt:

[JeffR]

You can't say you're a fan of realismI never claimed to be a fan of realism. I am interested in realistic physics. The only "simulator" that I use as a learning tool as well as a game, is RealFlight, a radio control aircraft similator, mostly for the radio control helicopters (orientation of the model relative to you is the main issue, for example, upsidedown and sideways flight crosses up the control inputs pretty good). Unlike Tristan and others here, I don't race in real life, so racing games aren't learning tools for me. I've done a few auto-cross runs and and played with indoor go-karts, but that's not racing.

I don't know many cars that use dual sticks to control, so that's not realistic in the slightest.It's one type of controller used for radio control cars, which is a better analogy since you're not really in a car when playing a racing game. (The other type of controller for rc cars has a side wheel and thumb trigger, but the twin stick setup is common to cars and aircraft so I use that). I also have a concern that if I used a wheel and pedals, I might develop a bad panic reaction that I might carry over to my real world driving (eg, driver induced understeer versus counsteering, in games versus real life).

You could say you were a fan of realistic physics though, that might help save you from this pit you dug yourself.I just did.

lazyIn order to setup the wheel, I have to remove the center drawer from my computer desk, clamp on the wheel, and hook everything up. The other issue is that the momo racing wheel quit working. I'd like to get a G25, but it's clamps don't seem like they'll work with my desk.

[tristancliffe]

LFS isn't primarily a learning tool at all. It helped, but I play it because I enjoy it! I get no enjoyment whatsoever out of wannabe sims, into which I put rFactor, NFS, Gran Turismo (the latter is fun when drunk with mates though, but I couldn't play it for more than 15 minutes on my own and sober). I do get pleasure out of completely unpretentious driving games like Super Mario Kart for example.

I can't get pleasure playing MS Flight Sim, because I know it's a flawed product. I do get pleasure out of X-Plane.

I don't get pleasure out of Battlefield 2, but I do get pleasure from Operation Flashpoint.

I don't get pleasure from driving anything FWD apart from 80s hot-hatches. I do get pleasure from driving almost anything RWD (including our old Ford Transit in winter :))

[5haz]

Do I get a T-shirt?

What exactly is the function of these 'clubs', is it some cheap way of trying to feel superior? :razz:

[tristancliffe]

Mine was just a gently mock at the sudden outrage by people not used to looking after a clutch. I don't know the reason for the others, but I suspect they're belated attempts to mock the mock because the aim of the original mock passed the by. There are no club benefits, no prizes, no special offers, no advantages to be had from being in one or not. I'm surprised I got more than 5 replies in my thread to be honest!

[5haz]

Mine was just a gently mock at the sudden outrage by people not used to looking after a clutch. I don't know the reason for the others, but I suspect they're belated attempts to mock the mock because the aim of the original mock passed the by. There are no club benefits, no prizes, no special offers, no advantages to be had from being in one or not. I'm surprised I got more than 5 replies in my thread to be honest!

And so feel superior? :razz:

Just joking. :D

TBH I noticed little difference when LFS went patch Y, probrably because im too poor to have a clutch pedal. :)

and changing weather conditions?


If only, if only. :)

[JeffR]

...wannabe sims, into which I put rFactor, NFS, Gran Turismo ... I do get pleasure out of completely unpretentious driving games like Super Mario Kart for example.NFS a wannabe sim? Maybe the first 2 might have claimed "realistic" like driving, but since NFS3 (Hot Pursuit), EA self catagorizes the NFS series as arcade games.

OK, so sometimes the hype from the advertisers doesn't quite match up with what the developers created. I made an alternate intro for NFS Underground 1 to separate hype from fact:

http://jeffareid.net/nfs7/n7intro.wmv

I don't get pleasure from driving anything FWD apart from 80s hot-hatches. I do get pleasure from driving almost anything RWDA bit off topic, but I agree with you here, not a fan of FWD either. I am a fan of RWD oversteer, but tires are expensive in the real world, so that leaves the racing games.

[Glenn67]

.

English is a funny langauge, it can be interpreted in so many ways... I personaly don't see where he is suggesting his primary concern is realism :shrug: "realistic players" to me indicates he is a fan of racing games and therefore doesn't require 100% realism in his controller choice.

I currently use a G25 wheel, before that a momo and before that an xbox controller and I'd have to say that the driving experience with the xbox controller was very good infact if I didn't break the thing I may still be using it :p

Even MS Flightsim you see a great variation of people that use that sim from full on realism freaks who build their own cockpit replicas to the casual gamer that will use their kb or xbox controller. Why should LFS be any different.

[eidt] Note to self read entire thread before posting :/

[March Hare]

Quite far off.
Allthough since my GF went to tampere for a semester abroad, my righ arm has become considerably stronger...
Try the left one for a change. Feels totally different. If I want a quickie I go for the right one. It's stronger and faster. If I want it gentle I'll go with the left.

I'd call this:YACUT

[Shotglass]

your thread throws out the balance it seeked to restore ;)

if anyone mentions midichlorians ill kill him

[JeffR]

if anyone mentions midichlorians ill kill himYou just did. However, think of me as similar to the Oracle, who's job it was to unbalance the order in the Matrix.

[March Hare]

You going to make cookies now? I want some!