Round 7: Race Discussion & Protests

[DeadWolfBones]

Penalties:

#27 dropped to rear of grid for blocking during qualifying.
#19 given SG for unsafe overtaking of #14.
#20 given DT for cutting pit exit line.
#11 given DT for defending against lapping car under blue flag.
#27 given DT for blocking a lapping car under blue flag.
#37 given SG for rough driving.
#39 given SG for not being more cautious while attempting a pass.
#12 given DT for chat
#27 given SG for contact and poor blue flag behavior with #14.

[Dragonmen]

#41 pulled of with speed under SC to be able to take more speed into start finish line and this is as we understand forbidden...

#41 clearly gained advantage by doing it...

time mark: ~14-15min


EDIT:
I'm sure some other cars did the same, but this was more than obvious...

[r4ptor]

Complaint against #19 and #38 @ second restart for risky driving.

Both cars were too close behind our #14 just prior to the green flag, and they they both attempt pass into T1 (tunnel) - and that's just not possible.

[Rudy van Buren]

Complaints for #14 for not paying attention while second restart,

i was completly free in the inside and then suddenly got hit from the right and ending me up on my roof and our race was over.

EDIT:

i watched the replay few times from all cars,from my point of vieuw it starts wenn #19 starts to make little contact with #14 a admin timing and and a mega lag moment.

[BenjiMC]

#41 pulled of with speed under SC to be able to take more speed into start finish line and this is as we understand forbidden...

#41 clearly gained advantage by doing it...

time mark: ~14-15min


EDIT:
I'm sure some other cars did the same, but this was more than obvious...

#41 Didn't pull back, the two cars ahead kept the same speed and all accelerated together about 1 or 2 seconds before the green flag. However they then braked so he got a run on them. The 3 cars were all accelerating together, but 41 didn't brake at the same time as the two in front (as the green went) making it look like he got a run.

[Dragonmen]

Not a complain just an info to #11:
If you are lap behind and faster it doesnt mean you have to spin us in order to pass! Take it easy!

Time mark: ~36:30

[DeadWolfBones]

Complaint against #19 and #38 @ second restart for risky driving.

Both cars were too close behind our #14 just prior to the green flag, and they they both attempt pass into T1 (tunnel) - and that's just not possible.


Complaints for #14 for not paying attention while second restart,

i was completly free in the inside and then suddenly got hit from the right and ending me up on my roof and our race was over.

This is a multi-fault accident, but I'll do my best to lay it out:

At the time of the restart, the #14 was leading the #19 and #38. #14 was giving adequate room to the car ahead, but the #19 and #38 were bunched much too tightly behind the #14, which contributed to the accident.

Because the #19 was so close behind the #14 (nearly touching bumper to bumper), when the green flew and the #19's reaction time was slightly quicker, he actually hit the #14. He then pulled to the outside (right) and got alongside. Meanwhile, the #38 had a run on both cars and got alongside to the inside (left).

The #14 and #19 were very close together side to side, much too close for comfort, especially at that "choke point" on SO4. A little bit of lag mixed in, which resulted in the two cars spinning. The #14 spun into #38, who subsequently ended up on his roof after getting t-boned by the #06.

In the admins' opinion, #19 and #38 disobeyed rule G1 in not giving enough room to the car ahead during a restart, and both cars also disobeyed rule H1 in not giving enough room during an overtaking maneuver to account for lag. This resulted in a very unfortunate incident.

#19 receives a SG penalty pursuant to rule H5. #38's involvement will be further evaluated post-race.

[Rudy van Buren]

In the admins' opinion, #19 and #38 disobeyed rule G1 in not giving enough room to the car ahead during a restart, and both cars also disobeyed rule H1 in not giving enough room during an overtaking maneuver to account for lag. This resulted in a very unfortunate incident.




if i look at my replay i got enough room on the inside for a 'safe' overtaking on the inside, with #14 trying to block #19 on the outside and we all wanto go in the corner and som lag mixed in as u said. i dont understand why i didnt let enough space on the inside becaus #14 spins into me before that we didnt made any contact.

[Scott_Michaels]

We would like race control to take a look at the #33 car on lap 26, turn 3. Joe is a bit pissed off with the driving standards out there. He's been run over a few times despite setting competitive laps. This is a 4 hour race guys, calm down a bit.

[DeadWolfBones]

if i look at my replay i got enough room on the inside for a 'safe' overtaking on the inside, with #14 trying to block #19 on the outside and we all wanto go in the corner and som lag mixed in as u said. i dont understand why i didnt let enough space on the inside becaus #14 spins into me before that we didnt made any contact.

Going three-wide at that point in the track, to me, constitutes not giving enough room, no matter how far you are from the other cars. It's just a very bad idea all around.

[Dragonmen]

We would like race control to take a look at the #33 car on lap 26, turn 3.

If your hitting us from behind is for a complain than we would like marshals to take a look at lap before in big left turn after back straight where #27 pushed us off...

thank you.

[Rudy van Buren]

Going three-wide at that point in the track, to me, constitutes not giving enough room, no matter how far you are from the other cars. It's just a very bad idea all around.

I think overtaking can be done everywhere if there is space and i had space on the inside. i was planning to go left as soon as possible after the wall goes left there to giv space to make this a clean first corner but if lags makes it into a crash its not my fault of not giving enough room. but oke discus this after the race.

[DeadWolfBones]

We would like race control to take a look at the #33 car on lap 26, turn 3. Joe is a bit pissed off with the driving standards out there. He's been run over a few times despite setting competitive laps. This is a 4 hour race guys, calm down a bit.


If your hitting us from behind is for a complain than we would like marshals to take a look at lap before in big left turn after back straight where #27 pushed us off...

thank you.

Both teams are right to complain here, as both were near-rough driving incidents. I would like to warn both teams to be more cautious and respectful when overtaking, and to give room (especially on this track) when making your passes.

[Dragonmen]

Thanx, I'll report it to my teammates.
Also we expect the same from other teams...

[DeadWolfBones]

#11 DT for defending against a lapping car in a blue flag situation.

[Psymonhilly]

protest against car #37 warbirds for knocking our rear end on the restart at start of race, forcing us to the back of the grid

http://koti.mbnet.fi/xenoa/files/LFS/test_rpl.mpr <-- replay added

[Dragonmen]

again #27... come on ppl, we were almost side by side there and you push us on the wall.

This is official complain considering warning we had.

Time mark ~1h25min [start to T1]

[Kardum31]

Having just gotten out of the car, I'd like to tell the #33 team that I wasn't trying to pass them there, so I still feel the squeeze job was undeserved. I leave my braking there a bit late, and I was following a bit too close and got caught off guard. The only space to be had was on the inside, so I went left and hoped to avoid contact instead of going straight and being sure of it. I don't mean to defend making contact, but I want to make it clear that I wasn't trying to run into them or barge into their position either.

Edit: In response to the above, Scott radioed in thinking you were trying to put him into the wall. Maybe neither car giving enough room?

[Ziomek21]

Some cars have started passing before s/f line at the start and after first safety car period.

[Megin]

Is there any working tracker for this race?

[Makao]

http://host.lucidstudios.co.uk/~dbpserve/igtc/ajax.php

[DeadWolfBones]

Some cars have started passing before s/f line at the start and after first safety car period.

Rule G2.1) Once the green flag has been displayed, drivers are free to overtake.

[baSh0r]

Information by: Team Inferno (#40)
Warning against: Warbirds Racing (#37) & Cone Dodgers 1 (#15)

In laps 56, 57 and 58 the drivers of #37 and #15.

Hey guys, i don't want to do a protest against you. All i want to say is that even with a faster car / driver you can't just go and overtake, if you are close before corners you loose it by having aero-loss by the car in front.

If i see that cars are battling like you two guys, my heart always stops because every time like this something can go wrong. So please i know you guys have your own race and competition but it would be really nice if you could move over and let the leaders go.

Thank you guys really much for appreciating these rules so far, great driving! :thumb:

[r4ptor]

protest against car #37 warbirds for knocking our rear end on the restart at start of race, forcing us to the back of the grid

http://koti.mbnet.fi/xenoa/files/LFS/test_rpl.mpr <-- replay added

#37 receives a Stop and Go penalty for rear ending #12.

[DeadWolfBones]

again #27... come on ppl, we were almost side by side there and you push us on the wall.

This is official complain considering warning we had.

Time mark ~1h25min [start to T1]


This was a racing incident, nothing more. #27 was far enough ahead to dictate the racing line. #33 tried to force something that wasn't there to be forced.

Nevertheless, both teams should be more careful. There's no excuse for contact on the straight.

[Who Cares]

Minor complaint against the #19 car (T.Hirvonen) on lap 94 for pushing the #7 car round in turn 1 whilst lapping... no very nice driving...:shrug:

[Myros]

Psymonhilly[/left];910549]protest against car #37 warbirds
for knocking our rear end on the restart at start of race, forcing us to the back of the grid

http://koti.mbnet.fi/xenoa/files/LFS/test_rpl.mpr <-- replay addedSorry for this I could do nothing to avoid you:shrug:

[BenjiMC]

Minor complaint against the #19 car (T.Hirvonen) on lap 94 for pushing the #7 car round in turn 1 whilst lapping... no very nice driving...:shrug:

Watching on board the #7 this look like his racing line. However from the #19 looks like he gave some room for a pass.

Ruling: Racing incident.

[R.Kolz]

Car #39 on the very beginning of its lap 77 causes #29 to spin.

[r4ptor]

Car #39 on the very beginning of its lap 77 causes #29 to spin.

#39 receives a Stop and Go penalty for not being more cautious while attempting a pass.

[Commander]

Information by: Team Inferno (#40)
Protest against: Spdo Racing1 (#19)


Lap 114 1st turn under bridge. #19 was overtaking on the outside but has not yet completely passed #40. #40 was on the inside and got hit by turning-in car #19 and spun out. We lost considerable time there.
It would have been possible to give some room mates :(

[r4ptor]

Complaint against #27 (3h 30secs).

#27 who are positioned behind us, gave more than enough room for our driver (#14) to make the pass during the front straight, but then decides to get back on line without slowing further down, resulting in a collision - and then continues racing us.

[MZWiZard]

Both in first sharp lefthander, they divebomb me:

My lap 104 - 39 S.Andrews, no major damage but time loss.

My lap 107 - 01 C.Green hits me from behind, causing a massive crash and my car being broken.

EDIT: Oh, and count this in too:

Watching on board the #7 this look like his racing line. However from the #19 looks like he gave some room for a pass.



Ruling: Racing incident.

[DeadWolfBones]

Complaint against #27 (3h 30secs).

#27 who are positioned behind us, gave more than enough room for our driver (#14) to make the pass during the front straight, but then decides to get back on line without slowing further down, resulting in a collision - and then continues racing us.

It does indeed look like the #27 tries to let the #14 by, but doesn't back off when he realizes he has to avoid the right hand wall, so he hits the #14 in the side. This would have simply been a brainfade maneuver with no harm done, but then the #27 proceeds to race the car he's just hit into T1 and put him into the wall.

SG for poor blue flag behavior/driving for #27.

[csurdongulos]

Information by: Team Inferno (#40)
Protest against: Spdo Racing1 (#19)


Lap 114 1st turn under bridge. #19 was overtaking on the outside but has not yet completely passed #40. #40 was on the inside and got hit by turning-in car #19 and spun out. We lost considerable time there.
It would have been possible to give some room mates :(

actually it was lap 115, just completed 114.

[DeadWolfBones]

Information by: Team Inferno (#40)
Protest against: Spdo Racing1 (#19)


Lap 114 1st turn under bridge. #19 was overtaking on the outside but has not yet completely passed #40. #40 was on the inside and got hit by turning-in car #19 and spun out. We lost considerable time there.
It would have been possible to give some room mates :(

#19 had begun a pass further down the main straight and were 50%+ ahead of #40 going into the bridge bend. #19 took a normal line, and were visible from the #40 cockpit, and there was slight contact at the apex. Being the leading car, #19 had the right to the line and it was perhaps unwise for #40 to press the issue.

Racing incident, no penalty.

[csurdongulos]

#19 had begun a pass further down the main straight and were 50%+ ahead of #40 going into the bridge bend. #19 took a normal line, and were visible from the #40 cockpit, and there was slight contact at the apex. Being the leading car, #19 had the right to the line and it was perhaps unwise for #40 to press the issue.

Racing incident, no penalty.

As far as I know the overtaking car has the responsibility for overtaking safely, you already mentioned before that you have to give enough space for other drivers/cars due to this being an online sport and you have to take lag into account, in my opinion Misan failed to do that. If you check the incident from his cockpit, you can see in the mirrors that I only appeared right at the turn in point for him, he mustn't think I just disappeared from the inside line and he can turn in like there was nobody there.
You make this sound like the car a bit ahead has no responsibility after he has slipped ahead by 50%, that may be true when overtaking on the inside, but on the outside? come on.

I cannot agree with the decision, but if that's what the admins think, so be it.

[MZWiZard]

This was meant as a complaint:

Both in first sharp lefthander, they divebomb me:

My lap 104 - 39 S.Andrews, no major damage but time loss.

My lap 107 - 01 C.Green hits me from behind, causing a massive crash and my car being broken.

EDIT: Oh, and count this in too:

I thought blue flag meant "let the lapping cars pass WHEN IT IS SAFE" - cmon guys, we were also racing until you ended it...

[rc10racer]

This was meant as a complaint:



I thought blue flag meant "let the lapping cars pass WHEN IT IS SAFE" - cmon guys, we were also racing until you ended it...

We are looking into it there is other stuff todo then have 5 admins look to a compliant, just wait until we have looked at it

[DeadWolfBones]

This was meant as a complaint:



I thought blue flag meant "let the lapping cars pass WHEN IT IS SAFE" - cmon guys, we were also racing until you ended it...

We are investigating. Please be patient.

[Dragonmen]

two laps before the end, T1, there was a crash ahead, our driver lifted to avoid crashing but the other drivers didnt... we lost 2 positions there :(

Please take a look! Thnx

EDIT:
we lost 3 positions!

[DeadWolfBones]

two laps before the end, T1, there was a crash ahead, our driver lifted to avoid crashing but the other drivers didnt... we lost 2 positions there :(

Please take a look! Thnx

EDIT:
we lost 3 positions!

Will do.

This and the #7's protests will likely be treated as post-race protests since they were not resolved during the event. However, this is a grey area in the rules (what to do with in-race protests that are not resolved in-race), so we'll need to discuss that as well.

[[DUcK]]

I'm sorry MZWiZard, I thought you knew I was passing.
I caught you down the straight and flashed my lights (i think), then into turn one I went to the inside line. It was difficult to judge due to my higher ping, so I didn't try to 'divebomb', I just went to the inside, and went to pass you. If i was in your position, and you were the faster car and i was getting passed, i would have stayed out wide where you were :)
I guess you did not see me and unfortunately resulted in a spin, so im sorry for your loss but i just guess these types of racing incidents are inevitible at a city track..
hope you understand :)

[Rikje]

I felt such a noob when I got that DT. :P

[MZWiZard]

We are investigating. Please be patient.

Ok. Just not sure of it, as I forgot to mark as a complaint ;)

[DeadWolfBones]

Also under investigation is the #30 team. They ran a total of 148 laps, with one driver doing 119 of those. This is 80.4% of the distance.

[BreadC]

Information by: Team Inferno (#40)
Warning against: Warbirds Racing (#37) & Cone Dodgers 1 (#15)

In laps 56, 57 and 58 the drivers of #37 and #15.

Hey guys, i don't want to do a protest against you. All i want to say is that even with a faster car / driver you can't just go and overtake, if you are close before corners you loose it by having aero-loss by the car in front.

If i see that cars are battling like you two guys, my heart always stops because every time like this something can go wrong. So please i know you guys have your own race and competition but it would be really nice if you could move over and let the leaders go.

Thank you guys really much for appreciating these rules so far, great driving! :thumb:

i thought i did? as soon as you caught me you got past down back str8. i never re tried to overtake you. i coulda slammed it up the inside coz you went wide in last corner, but i held back. also on home straight and t1. :( you can see i was behind you.. but i went 80% throttle and backed off for the fast left.. i am not 100% stupid :)

i know only 1 instance where you probably had your heart in your mouth.. that was in hairpin... i didnt realise you braked that early because of guy infront. i slammed on mine and only touched your rear it was not my intention im not like that :(

[[DUcK]]

after watching the replay (just from the last 2 hours) i watched j.valentin do a lot of silly stuff. at first, i thought it was my fault for the incident, but really i dont think it was. almost every faster car that went passed him he either made contact with, got spun by, or annoyed them alot. its safe to say if i was a lapped car i would let them passed ASAP under a braking point, then follow them around and learn the lines or something! i mean, ur losing more time by holding guys up, than u would (infact u would gain time) if u let them passed easily. i saw the same thing happened with a spdo car, contact was made at t2 hairpin, and you spun. maybe you just have to learn when its best to give way. if you complain about us making you lose time, think about the time you lose for us, also the fact you could actually be gaining time if you let us slip passed nice and easily then sit behind us :)

[BreadC]

;910733']also the fact you could actually be gaining time if you let us slip passed nice and easily then sit behind us :)

thats how i got past 37 :D when the 40 went past! :D :thumb:

[UncleBenny]

Also under investigation is the #30 team. They ran a total of 148 laps, with one driver doing 119 of those. This is 80.4% of the distance.

Our second driver's computer crashed and he couldn't race any more. I finished the race hoping I wouldn't be over 75%, I understand if there is some kind of penalty against us though.

[[DUcK]]

yup, it works :) i just hope the admins can understand :)

[pearcy_2k7]

Send replay breadz :)

[BreadC]

Send replay breadz :)

why u wanna see my noobness? lol

alltho my fav overtaking place was last corner round the outside... did about 3 or 4 ppl there :D

[[DUcK]]

i think he might have meant me :x as in ducks eat bread, im apparantly hungry according to him :)

another thing to add (yes i know i keep going along, but my brain works slowly today :D )
valentin takes a veryyy wide entry into corners, you could forgive people to think that he is letting them through, then he slams the door to continue is normal racing line

[pearcy_2k7]

Yeh! :D That and i wana see duck crapping himself with hawku a tenth behind him :D Oh and to see what Dave was going off like a mad man about... :schwitz:

Duck - Your always hungry :D

[BenjiMC]

Full replay:
http://files.filefront.com/SO4+race+4H+0R+24Fmpr/;11653054;/fileinfo.html

[[DUcK]]

crapping myself? i didnt even know he was there :D

[BreadC]

;910748']i think he might have meant me :x as in ducks eat bread, im apparantly hungry according to him :)

another thing to add (yes i know i keep going along, but my brain works slowly today :D )
valentin takes a veryyy wide entry into corners, you could forgive people to think that he is letting them through, then he slams the door to continue is normal racing line

jus dont eat me ok? :D

[[DUcK]]

haha! okay ill try not to ;)

[Commander]

i thought i did? as soon as you caught me you got past down back str8. i never re tried to overtake you. i coulda slammed it up the inside coz you went wide in last corner, but i held back. also on home straight and t1. :( you can see i was behind you.. but i went 80% throttle and backed off for the fast left.. i am not 100% stupid :)

i know only 1 instance where you probably had your heart in your mouth.. that was in hairpin... i didnt realise you braked that early because of guy infront. i slammed on mine and only touched your rear it was not my intention im not like that :(

What he basically meant was the laps before. Being the lapping car but only half a second a lap faster it is hard to get into a 100% perfect lapping position e.g. on the straights due to the aeroloss. We came close several times but had to slowdown for aerodynamic reasons. This happening in 3 laps resulted in a 1sec loss per lap which could just have been solved easier.
I mean the cars that are lapped know they are producing drag which makes it hard to follow closely.

I also know this is also just a thing for this narrow city track but should be considered in every lapping situation to avoid frustration on both sides :)

And it wasn't a complaint ^^ just a helpful hint

[pearcy_2k7]

;910753']crapping myself? i didnt even know he was there :D

LoL! Did you put tape over your mirrors? like "if i don't see him its ok, its ok....!!111"

[MZWiZard]

;910733']after watching the replay (just from the last 2 hours) i watched j.valentin do a lot of silly stuff. at first, i thought it was my fault for the incident, but really i dont think it was. almost every faster car that went passed him he either made contact with, got spun by, or annoyed them alot. its safe to say if i was a lapped car i would let them passed ASAP under a braking point, then follow them around and learn the lines or something! i mean, ur losing more time by holding guys up, than u would (infact u would gain time) if u let them passed easily. i saw the same thing happened with a spdo car, contact was made at t2 hairpin, and you spun. maybe you just have to learn when its best to give way. if you complain about us making you lose time, think about the time you lose for us, also the fact you could actually be gaining time if you let us slip passed nice and easily then sit behind us :)

Its ok - thats your point of view. :) However that doesnt justify forcing the way through like done tonight (What if we all did that?). I didnt think that was the best place to let people pass, as most incidents happen just there on that specific track (and unfortunately, so they did... :shrug:). Comon - its a 4 hour race and by being a little more patient these accidents could have been avoided.

[R.Kolz]

Full replay:
http://files.filefront.com/SO4+race+4H+0R+24Fmpr/;11653054;/fileinfo.html

TDRT (http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/omg.jpg) stats.

[[DUcK]]

yeah, as i said i didnt try dive bomb you, i went to the inside, expecting you to see me. you took a wide line so i thought you did... obviously not so im sorry

[banshee56]

TDRT (http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/omg.jpg) stats.

Haha....brilliant!

[DeadWolfBones]

The #7 took a habitually wide line into T1 that (I believe) fooled a lot of lapping cars into thinking it was letting them by. We saw it with #19, #39, and #1 that we know of.

[Hawku]

Alternative url's for replays
4H Race (http://www.spdoracing.com/events/replays/3053.mpr)
Qualify (http://www.spdoracing.com/events/replays/3052.mpr)

[MZWiZard]

I wasnt trying to fool anyone - that was in fact my racing line(Weird or not). :shy:

I hope we can agree on that its the oncoming cars responsibility to judge, whether its safe or not to pass. And since I didnt actually do anything different when I was about to be lapped I'm sorry to say that there must have been several judgement faults. ;)

Whatever said and done, I liked this track and I still like racing IGTC. And at the end of today, maybe we all learned a lesson or two about respecting other drivers (yes that includes me ;) ). :thumb:

[[DUcK]]

well said mate :)

[BigTime]

Alternative url's for replays
4H Race (http://www.spdoracing.com/events/replays/3053.mpr)
Qualify (http://www.spdoracing.com/events/replays/3052.mpr)

Thank you sir. :thumb:

[DeadWolfBones]

I wasnt trying to fool anyone - that was in fact my racing line(Weird or not). :shy:

I hope we can agree on that its the oncoming cars responsibility to judge, whether its safe or not to pass. And since I didnt actually do anything different when I was about to be lapped I'm sorry to say that there must have been several judgement faults. ;)

Whatever said and done, I liked this track and I still like racing IGTC. And at the end of today, maybe we all learned a lesson or two about respecting other drivers (yes that includes me ;) ). :thumb:

I wasn't implying that the fooling was your fault. It's just that when you're a lapping driver and you see the car ahead present a big juicy gap, sometimes it's hard to second-guess your initial assumption.

[rcpilot]

I thought blue flag meant "let the lapping cars pass WHEN IT IS SAFE" - cmon guys, we were also racing until you ended it...
I had no intention of passing until I caught up to you heavily under normal braking and you seemed to be going wide. I interpreted this as an invitation to pass or just simply a reasonable opening considering the circumstances and tried to take it. By the time I realized my opening was gone I barely managed to tap the brakes before tapping you. The rest was my trying to get out of the quagmire as quickly as possible when I realized you weren't going to be able to hold it, I still had velocity going in the direction of the unblocked track, and there were cars coming.

/Edit - Just viewed the replay and hadn't read the 3rd page, DWB kinda said it for me. :shrug:

[Ziomek21]

lol, look at my car at the start of the quali. I got owned by the lagobarrier :/

[R.Kolz]

I hope we can agree on that its the oncoming cars responsibility to judge, whether its safe or not to pass.

I totally agree with you.
Your car#07 3 laps down with under 2 minutes to go before race end I have my doubts that all of your teammates have received your message.

[Who Cares]

I totally agree with you.
Your car#07 3 laps down with under 2 minutes to go before race end I have my doubts that all of your teammates have received your message.

FIRST off... I feel a little sorry for your guy in the car (D.Ratcliffe) as he really is only 2'nd part of this... so Ratcliffe - I'm sorry things ended the way they did...:shrug:

BUT when you as teamleader comes on to OUR private Teamspeak server and ask for me to step down because you have a "tight schedule" this evening... and Ratcliffe did'nt even apply pressure on me as i could hold him on a pretty fair distance (like 20-30 meters)... I surely couldnt see why I should let him by... obviously you didnt expect me to park the car on the straight for him..?
We all have our races you know... learn to live with that...

And your doings just pissed me off really... as you know that I dont want ANY doings with you --> what so ever, knowing your past history in danish LFS... Frankly i can't understand why anyone would...

To the point you're trying to make with the images here.. well if viewed from above, things seems a little different taking what led up to this accident..

First off Ratcliffe slid wide in the last lefthander, and that made #5 J.Lovett make his pass... after he had been "in problems" whilst trying to go by, as Ratcliffe didnt seem to notice that BLUE FLAG on his sreen and hear that Lovett where honking the horn at him...
So going up the straight I get a good run at Ratcliff's car and for some reason he just lunges a little to the right just when I was about to get out of the slipstream (see image 2 & 3 and notice the line taken by #5 Lovett in the top of the picture) This makes me sverve over to the right to AVOID contact... and trying to get back on course, I surely moves left again... But as it can be seen Ratcliffe keeps staying in and even going further to the right... And as we crosses the finishline theres STILL a lot of room had he stayed in the "used-by-may" line, against the wall to the left... But he choses to keep me out there, and unfortunatly we touch slightly and sending us both into a major off... I'd call it a racing incident...
But for sure I feel a little sorry for Ratcliffe, I really do... But he knew that we where about the same pace at this state in the race... and what would he have achived in these last two minutes... Podium...?? Narrh I don't think so...
And when he tryes to leave out with no where to go, well then theres a risk of something likes this can happend... :shrug:

Finally - thanks for your nice threats that you made at me when you came BACK on our private TeamSpeak server... It's just SO you (*Hint hint*)... :thumb:
So Kolz - stay out of my way please, I dont want ANYTHING to do with you or the way you "handles" things in this "game"... OK...!?

[Scott_Michaels]

Complaint against #27 (3h 30secs).

#27 who are positioned behind us, gave more than enough room for our driver (#14) to make the pass during the front straight, but then decides to get back on line without slowing further down, resulting in a collision - and then continues racing us.

It does indeed look like the #27 tries to let the #14 by, but doesn't back off when he realizes he has to avoid the right hand wall, so he hits the #14 in the side. This would have simply been a brainfade maneuver with no harm done, but then the #27 proceeds to race the car he's just hit into T1 and put him into the wall.

SG for poor blue flag behavior/driving for #27.
I know I'm a bit late, and I really should keep my mouth shut, but I have to make a point about this one.

I moved over to the right to give you the left side of the track. We were still side by side heading towards turn 1 (a flat out corner that really doesnt require the whole use of the track on entry), and you decide you want to use all the track and nail me into the wall. On what planet is that acceptable behaviour? As a front runner in plenty of other series I would be thoroughly embarrassed if I behaved like that, but to have the cheek to then complain about MY driving? And then for the admin to say that I was the one making a brain fade move? Why am I obliged to back off unecessarily to give you all the space you could want? Its your job to get passed me, which you would have done no problem, it is NOT my job to roll out the red carpet for you and take your breakfast order oh holy hotlapper.
If thats poor blue flag behaviour on my part then you've all gone completely, totally and utterly mad.
I presume I got the penalty for "racing" you into the next corner (this clearly isn't poor blue flag behaviour because I obviously wasn't under blue flags at that point but thats the only conclusion i can come to). Your car was extremely slow on the brakes into the next corner (clearly, or someone as inferior as myself wouldn't have had a hope of repassing thou holy one), so I assumed your car was damaged from the crash you just caused. As for running you into the wall, I'd made the pass and needed all the track on the exit (apparently that isn't a problem based on the move you made going into the previous corner).

[R.Kolz]

(Snip) FIRST off... I feel a little sorry for your guy in the car (D.Ratcliffe)...... So Kolz - stay out of my way please. (Snip)

That´s not just a guy in a car. That´s a TDRT team car. As long you drive like this and get in TDRT´s way like you did yesterday I´ll file protests against you. Your post shows that you don´t know what was going on at race end.
The 05 car can honk as much as he likes to - this was a straight forward battle for 12th place. Due to the prior DC car #4 had Blue Flag on every car behind. Still, we knew that the battle against #05 was for position. Obviously you didn´t. Your spinning our #4 car was just unnecessary a move. You´re not just battling a car here. It´s the car which is 3rd in the overall standings and a bit more of situation awareness would have been nice in this situation.

[DaveWS]

I know I'm a bit late, and I really should keep my mouth shut

Yes you really should keep your mouth shut, since that's the only fact you've made in your little argument.

T1 DOES require a wide entry to get around flatout, I held my line, you let me through, then rejoined the racing line which was now occupied by me. In order for the driver behind to pass, the driver infront must lift his foot from the pedal on the right, which you decided not to do.

How was I "extremely slow on the brakes into the next corner" when I broke even later than you did? Need to watch the replay? Please do. Incidently, yes my car was damaged badly from the crash YOU just caused.

It's also interesting to see you've admitted that running me into the wall on the exit of the following corner was your act of revenge on me though. :thumbsup:

DeadWolfBones is one of the fairest guys I've ever spoken to, and decisions have gone against me, when I was in the wrong (we all make mistakes, no one is "inferior" here), and for when I was in the right, like yesterday.

[DeadWolfBones]

Our second driver's computer crashed and he couldn't race any more. I finished the race hoping I wouldn't be over 75%, I understand if there is some kind of penalty against us though.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. The penalty will be reflected in the final standings. As precedent was set with the 3id incident 2 rounds ago, it'll be the total time you ran beyond 3 hours that will be deducted from your total.

[DeadWolfBones]

two laps before the end, T1, there was a crash ahead, our driver lifted to avoid crashing but the other drivers didnt... we lost 2 positions there :(

Please take a look! Thnx

EDIT:
we lost 3 positions!


Having reviewed this, it's clear that all drivers approaching the incident ahead (that of the #07 and #04) braked to avoid it, and that the #33 in fact braked the least of these. In braking less, you attempted a pass on the #24 car, a lap or more ahead of you, and made contact getting into T1, causing major damage to the #24 car. This is a racing incident, but the majority of the fault lies with the #33 car, in our opinion. No penalty.

[DeadWolfBones]

Rudy and Johnny, the IGTC is not the place to take your personal battles from the Danish LFS community.

Johnny, you and your team need to be more aware of the status of the cars around you. From your description of the incident it's clear that you had no idea the #04 car was laps ahead of you, or fighting for position with the #05. This sort of information is vital to the functioning of a IGTC race team, and it's why we suggest that all teams have a team manager coordinating with their drivers during a race, using the tracker and other available info.

The TDRT car, on the other hand, certainly could have given more room on the straight. For the second time in this thread: it takes two to tango, and there is NO excuse for contact/wrecking on the straights.

Thanks.

[Scott_Michaels]

Yes you really should keep your mouth shut, since that's the only fact you've made in your little argument.

T1 DOES require a wide entry to get around flatout, I held my line, you let me through, then rejoined the racing line which was now occupied by me. In order for the driver behind to pass, the driver infront must lift his foot from the pedal on the right, which you decided not to do.

How was I "extremely slow on the brakes into the next corner" when I broke even later than you did? Need to watch the replay? Please do. Incidently, yes my car was damaged badly from the crash YOU just caused.

It's also interesting to see you've admitted that running me into the wall on the exit of the following corner was your act of revenge on me though. :thumbsup:

DeadWolfBones is one of the fairest guys I've ever spoken to, and decisions have gone against me, when I was in the wrong (we all make mistakes, no one is "inferior" here), and for when I was in the right, like yesterday.
Well I manage to go through it flat out leaving a cars width on either the inside or outside at will. Not sure what you are doing wrong.
Whether I rejoined the racing line or not is irrelevant, I held my position on the right side of the track (its the bit between the inpenetrable walls, btw) and you simply drove over to my side of the track and nailed me. Crying "he should have backed off" is absolutley no excuse for a simple lack of respect for my existance, especially as I was under no obligation to back off.
All I know is that I did nothing special in the next corner and quite easily drove down your inside (presumably because you were damaged) by just taking my line and normal speed. Surely you are aware that being "slow" is not defined by your braking point but the speed you carry into the corner? I can slow down pretty damn quick when I want to (ie, when I'm damaged and can't make a corner at normal speed) without changing my braking point.
I didn't say anything about revenge. I perhaps could have given you more room but I didn't feel it was necessary. I tend to race people how they race me. Nothing to do with revenge, or can you not see the difference?

[r4ptor]

Well I manage to...

Dave felt you did something wrong and reported it to me. I had a second look in replay and felt the same way so I filed the complaint. Admins then looked at it and.. tada.. felt the same way and therefor handed out a penalty.

Still, here you are in a disagreement (which is ok though - but you have to recognize when you are in the wrong), and even talking about driving abilities. That's pretty ignorant considering your fastest lap during the race was 1½ sec away from ours - and if you are indeed that experienced as you claim, then you should know well enough that you don't just gain that extra time... otherwise you would have done so yourself, no?

Stop measuring penis sizes and take the verdict like a man.

[JasonL220]

Stop Measuring Penis Sizes And Take The Verdict Like A Man.

Lol

[Dragonmen]

Having reviewed this, it's clear that all drivers approaching the incident ahead (that of the #07 and #04) braked to avoid it, and that the #33 in fact braked the least of these. In braking less, you attempted a pass on the #24 car, a lap or more ahead of you, and made contact getting into T1, causing major damage to the #24 car. This is a racing incident, but the majority of the fault lies with the #33 car, in our opinion. No penalty.

After reviewing the replay our driver involved confirmed to me that he (and/or driver/s/ involved) experienced lag at that time that made confusion even bigger...
On Remote it looked like the drivers behind used brakes a lot later (or lifted latter), and I was writing about incident based on what I saw on Remote and what I have been told by my teammate at that time.

Its just shame so many incidents came under and just after SC period and this last one went on our back :shrug:
Having great amount of time advantage in front of P18, 10 minutes till the end, and finishing P20 is just very big shame considering problems we had and how much we pushed... very disappointing for us. On the other hand we knew it would be a very hard race with XRR on SO4 so we are glad we even finished. :schwitz:

We will take any penalty or blame, if necessary, for that incident.

[DeadWolfBones]

No worries, Milan... definitely didn't look like you intentionally took the #24 out, and I'm not surprised to hear that there was lag involved. It is definitely a shame that that happened so late in the race for you, as I know you were racing the #11 for position.

[Scott_Michaels]

The maturity of the LFS comunity always astounds me, both on and off the track. I have nothing more to say to you people.

[joshdifabio]

I don't know who wrote the Round 7 race report on core-racing.com - but I'm very disappointed by the frankly slanderous nature of it. I have a great deal of respect for Core, but lying about a rival driver in the public medium simply to damage his and his team's reputation is just totally out of order.

The report seems to mostly focus on our car - or, to be precise, one of our drivers; Misan.

Please, whoever wrote the report, check the ****ing replay and tell me where, after the incident, Misan "backed across the track in front of traffic". He waited until the entirity of the main body of the field had passed him, and was absolutely nowhere near impeding anybody in that manoeuvre.

The report the goes on the imply that the incident cost our team nothing, and cost the Core team badly. After the stop-go penalty, we were an entire LAP off the lead of the race, and were well down on your lead car who, given an incident-free race, we would have been comfortably up on.

I also think it's total crap to blame the incident on Misan in a way that suggests it is cut-and-dried. Look at the replay and you will see that many cars were driving very close at the restart, with some drivers even anticipating the start. While Misan was too close to the car ahead, that was not the sole cause of the incident. Watch him from the chase view and you'll see that when he pulled out of Hugo's slipstream, he was only committing to pass one car, and he was doing so in the only place on the track where it's possible to pass a driver of similar ability.

The main reason for the severity of the incident was the server. Review the first safety car incident and you will notice how crap the server actually was.

If you want to see the incident which was most deserving of a penalty on any of the race starts, check P.Diaz on the initial start driving 30mph faster than all of the cars ahead of him on the start. That was 10x worse than what Misan did and I'm sure even the wanker that wrote your report could see that.

[DeadWolfBones]

Sorry that you feel wronged by that report, Josh. I hadn't seen it until you brought it up, but I'll have a word with Lee.

No hard feelings meant or held. :thumbsup:

edit: and I just had a look at Phil's race start and Teemu's incident. Phil, as I'm sure you saw, was hurrying to catch up to the queue (following the u-turn) when the green flew. He definitely used his momentum to his advantage, but he didn't drop back intentionally to get a run. The situation was complicated by the fact that the Warbirds driver 3 cars ahead didn't get on the gas in a timely manner (note the huge gap from him to the next car ahead).

You're absolutely right about Teemu not backing across traffic. I'm not sure where the writer of the report on our site got that from. All apologies for that.

[Kardum31]

Despite our differences with the community and administration of this league, we have mostly enjoyed our time in the mid- to rear-pack, and plan to return next season. Unfortunately (depending on who you are) we do not expect to be able to make the season finale later this month, providing an opportunity to cool down and work to avoid silly penalties in the future. Hopefully some of you have noticed an improvement in our pace and consistency since our debut this season, and we plan to keep improving through next season and the preceding off-season. It is painfully clear to us, and certainly to many of you, that our philosophies do not exactly mesh with those of this league. However, we acknowledge and respect that as participants, it is our job to attempt to adapt to these philosophies. We sincerely hope that you'll excuse our recent behavior and welcome with open arms next season (or at least a polite wave.)

[joshdifabio]

I somehow knew that the report was not written by you, Ben, but to read something which seems to have been so disrespectfully and erroneously compiled just makes me sick to the stomach.

I won't mention or blame anyone else, but Lee's ignorance and short-sightedness reflects badly upon your whole team.

[DeadWolfBones]

Despite our differences with the community and administration of this league, we have mostly enjoyed our time in the mid- to rear-pack, and plan to return next season. Unfortunately (depending on who you are) we do not expect to be able to make the season finale later this month, providing an opportunity to cool down and work to avoid silly penalties in the future. Hopefully some of you have noticed an improvement in our pace and consistency since our debut this season, and we plan to keep improving through next season and the preceding off-season. It is painfully clear to us, and certainly to many of you, that our philosophies do not exactly mesh with those of this league. However, we acknowledge and respect that as participants, it is our job to attempt to adapt to these philosophies. We sincerely hope that you'll excuse our recent behavior and welcome with open arms next season (or at least a polite wave.)

Glad to hear you'll be back, Joe. I've enjoyed having you and watching you improve over the season. :)

[DeadWolfBones]

Sorry that you feel wronged by that report, Josh. I hadn't seen it until you brought it up, but I'll have a word with Lee.

No hard feelings meant or held. :thumbsup:

edit: and I just had a look at Phil's race start and Teemu's incident. Phil, as I'm sure you saw, was hurrying to catch up to the queue (following the u-turn) when the green flew. He definitely used his momentum to his advantage, but he didn't drop back intentionally to get a run. The situation was complicated by the fact that the Warbirds driver 3 cars ahead didn't get on the gas in a timely manner (note the huge gap from him to the next car ahead).

You're absolutely right about Teemu not backing across traffic. I'm not sure where the writer of the report on our site got that from. All apologies for that.

Repost to get my edit to the next page. :P

[joshdifabio]

Phil, as I'm sure you saw, was hurrying to catch up to the queue (following the u-turn) when the green flew. He definitely used his momentum to his advantage, but he didn't drop back intentionally to get a run. The situation was complicated by the fact that the Warbirds driver 3 cars ahead didn't get on the gas in a timely manner (note the huge gap from him to the next car ahead).

Surely that is completely irrelevant? Or can you just drop back a few hundred metres and then 'catch the field up' right before the green? The fact is that when the race went green he had a massive speed advantage which he used to pass a number of cars. That was cheating, end of. Surely it was as much a violation as Misan following a car too closely and then attempting a pass which did not appear at all risky at the time?

I didn't want to post again but well, I couldn't stop myself.

[PMD9409]

Surely that is completely irrelevant? Or can you just drop back a few hundred metres and then 'catch the field up' right before the green? The fact is that when the race went green he had a massive speed advantage which he used to pass a number of cars. That was cheating, end of. Surely it was as much a violation as Misan following a car too closely and then attempting a pass which did not appear at all risky at the time?

I didn't want to post again but well, I couldn't stop myself.

Well next race I would like you to start back there, and try to stay right behind the car infront, and watch as you have to slam on the brakes and most likely get rear-ended. I watched it, and I was clearly faster than the cars ahead, but if you watch I was going the same speed as them, but then they started braking. After they brake the green came out, which was a lucky break for me. It happens on every restart in the back, because they are always trying to catch up once the green comes out. Go ahead, penalize me for being cautious, but if you do you might want to have an admin watching the rear of the field so they can penalize 2-3 people on every restart.

[banshee56]

I somehow knew that the report was not written by you, Ben, but to read something which seems to have been so disrespectfully and erroneously compiled just makes me sick to the stomach.

I won't mention or blame anyone else, but Lee's ignorance and short-sightedness reflects badly upon your whole team.

Josh,

I want to apologize for the error I made in the report. I never intend to make the reports read as if we are assigning blame with a pro-CoRe tone, so with the error I made along with some bad wording choices, it obviously came out very badly.

I take full responsibility for the error and will take steps for future reports to avoid these kinds of errors. Everyone at CoRe Racing has a ton of respect for Teemu and the whole spdo Racing team and I hope my careless error doesn't damage any team relations we have built via our IGTC competition.

I've corrected the story and posted a retraction statement at the end.

Again, my most sincere apologies,

Lee Baker
CoRe Racing

[joshdifabio]

Lee,
Thank you for the considered and well thought-out apology - of course myself and the team appreciate and accept it wholeheartedly.

Looking forward to Round 8,
Josh

[DeadWolfBones]

Both in first sharp lefthander, they divebomb me:

My lap 104 - 39 S.Andrews, no major damage but time loss.

My lap 107 - 01 C.Green hits me from behind, causing a massive crash and my car being broken.

After much review, the admins have decided that both #39 Schnuffel Racing and #01 CoRe Racing #1 will receive C1 points penalties for these infractions.

However, we would like to note that three separate incidents were in part caused by the odd, wide line that #07 chose to use in T1. Though this does not excuse poorly-attempted overtaking maneuvers, it does indicate a lack of situational awareness on both sides of the incident, not just on the side of the penalized cars.

[DeadWolfBones]

Also under investigation is the #30 team. They ran a total of 148 laps, with one driver doing 119 of those. This is 80.4% of the distance.

I've done the math on this one. It's a bit complicated, but essentially:

Given 75% as a hard 3 hours, Voellinger is 16:30 over the limit, rounded.
Given 75% as 75% of the team's actual race time, Voellinger is 15:30 over the limit, rounded.

Using 15:30, since it seems fairer, and dividing it by an average lap time of 1:32.5 (about what he was running), we get 10 laps, nearly exactly. Subtracting 10 laps from the #30's total puts them in 23rd, with 138 laps, 3 laps ahead of the #06.

[Gil07]

Surely that is completely irrelevant? Or can you just drop back a few hundred metres and then 'catch the field up' right before the green? The fact is that when the race went green he had a massive speed advantage which he used to pass a number of cars. That was cheating, end of. Surely it was as much a violation as Misan following a car too closely and then attempting a pass which did not appear at all risky at the time?

I didn't want to post again but well, I couldn't stop myself.

Without seeing the incident, I think there is a precedent on this? Restart at AS4...

I really hope next race goes better, that last restart was hectic, and I was surprised by the amount of bad driving... :schwitz:

Oh and sorry for coming back to this, been without internet since monday...

[rcpilot]

Without seeing the incident, I think there is a precedent on this? Restart at AS4...

I really hope next race goes better, that last restart was hectic, and I was surprised by the amount of bad driving... :schwitz:

Oh and sorry for coming back to this, been without internet since monday...
I was getting massive accordianing from 7-11 spots back (depending on the start), I can only imagine what people further back were getting because of this. The rules are meant to avoid people attempting to do this on purpose, you can't really blame someone for being in the middle of an accordian when the flag drops. It also goes the other way too where I've been caught in the middle of braking for an accordian and been jumped when the flag drops by people who were just physically carrying more speed behind me trying to catch up when the green came out.

You can however say that people need to be a LOT more gentle on the brakes/throttle when we're under safety car conditions. I was ignoring the rapidly changing pace of the guy in front (driving like a road car with the brakes/gas) before the safety car peeled off and it was a massive aid to the people behind me in the field. But in the interests of not falling away from the guy in front of me at the start I was forced to join the rapid accordian on the final S/F straight. If everyone applied these rather basic principles though right up to the green flag things would be loads fairer and cleaner during our starts and restarts.