Why can't LFS have LX racing like this.....

[Tweaker]

God I love the LX cars, but they are so different from how they really race them in series....

This is just.... WOW, so kickass, I want it!!!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3470030766054407230 (36 sec)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3984612778462445397 (2 min 17 sec)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6145118794729557873 (45 sec)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4954368592730170833 (1 min 57 sec)

:Looking_a :Looking_a :Looking_a :Looking_a :Looking_a


(Sorry Germany, google video won't work for you :( )

Also note, even if these cars are running slicks, they have INCREDIBLE GRIP on all the bumps and turns, even when getting airborne ;) Oh and, if we want excitement, why dont we have tracks like this!!!! Knockhill looks nuts!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2317030850737650150 (3 min 37 sec)
This video is quote:
2 Laps of Cadwell Park Circuit with the Lotus 7 Club. The car is a 1.6 K Series Supersport, on road tyres wiv about 140BHP On road tires and probably pretty equal to the LX4... it is in very good control. And Cadwell Park being a very hilly and slow/tight turn course, you can see how messed up out low-speed grip is in LFS currently compared to reallife :o


Only thing that is really bad is the sound on these vids, sorry, but can't help that ;)

[Fordman]

Awesome racing and awesome track. I love Knockhill, but also to be fair Tweak, i.e. the first clip, if we skipped the curbs like that in the LX in LFS, I very much doubt we would still be facing the same direction :D

But I do beleive they run slick tyres. Have you tried the Slick Mod on the LX cars? I haven't, just interested in the difference.

I am to surprised there is no LX League. Every other car is catered for at some stage, but no dedicated LX League. Maybe if somebody was to start a LX League with Slick Mod, there would be lots of takers

[wollschaf]

There is a possibility to view those videos from germany, too. Just use google language tools and translate the URL of the video :D

I'm eagerly awaiting the big physics update :tilt:

[sinbad]

The Roadsports in the Knockhill videos don't actually run slicks, just some Avon all-weather tyre.

Cadwell rules btw :)

[CrazyICE]

once again...nice vid:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2854061566277163544
not lx like, but nice...
could be XRG-like, or so...

[mrbogeyman]

i agree with you there tweak!

Lotus 7 type cars are renowned for their hadling, and as yet i dont think this has translated into LFS. :shrug: Seeing them drive at Caldwell park just shows how well they can take the bumps/elevation/direction changes, which are the exact things which kill the LX in LFS :(

Just look how easy it is for those guys to control the cars, and recover slides. I never feel safe sliding the LXs unfortunately :( Mind you, they are most likely much better drivers for a start :D

Maybe its just my driving style, but I find that I just cannot be in the least bit wreckless with the LXs or they bite your head off. I have to drive ultra smooth on the perfect lines to get anywhere near a reasonable time.

Is there anything missing from the LX modelling? i.e. suspension model incomplete? Or is it just the overall physics update we are waiting for? Ive never been quite sure.

[ORION]

lol the translating trick really works... I would prefer to download those files to my disk, though...
On this lump of computer it's not really possible though (silly ie...)

So if anyone has a way to download those vids, pm me ;)

[deggis]

Some more LX style racing :thumb:

http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/course1_val_de_vienne_voiture_18.wmv
http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/course1_croix_en_ternois_voiture_18.wmv

Pretty big file size (200 megs) but quality is very good, at least compared to those Google videos which were crappy quality.

More here: http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy

And one more: http://koni.no-ip.biz/film/rejsa/Locost/locost.wmv (those are called "Locosts" but based on Lotus 7)

[Mazz4200]

But I do beleive they run slick tyres. Have you tried the Slick Mod on the LX cars? I haven't, just interested in the difference.

Just messing around one day at Aston Club, not really trying, i beat my pb by over 4sec's in the LX4 on slicks (they drive like baby FOX's, (or a "kit"), lol, on slicks, as apose to having to driving like your Granny, without them.)

If someone setup a server to run LX's with slickmod i'd be interested.:thumbsup:

[DratsaB]

Im actually very surprised no one has set up some kind of a semi/permanent Slick Mod Server. I love the road cars (and their tyres), but some of them are really fun with slicks, LX's being perfect examples. Come to think of it, all the road cars with slicks are a blast, FXO, RA etc


ty for the videos.:thumbsup:

[X-Ter]

Well if there is an interest I could set something up. Maybe a small series on the shorter tracks? Possibly something like two sprint races per session with reversed start order for second run? Tell me what you'd like and I'll try and whip something up. It has to be on tuesdays or thursdays tohugh, since SCORE server is engaged with other type or racing the other days.
Sadly, I guess that mean Europeans only due to time zones...

[Bawbag]

Nice vids, Yea knock hill is a class little circuit, been there many times and been round the track in the passenger seat, will get on the drivers seat soon as I get my liscence. :thumb:

Would be good with a racing LX4 with slicks and other cool things, would make it more popular, even though if I see LX racing wih a few ppl or more I go in and race, still very fun car. :)

[Hyperactive]

Hmm, what happens if you put slicks in RAC? Sounds pretty interesting as the LX6 is so nice to drive with slicks :)

*Starts LFS*

[Tweaker]

i agree with you there tweak!

Lotus 7 type cars are renowned for their hadling, and as yet i dont think this has translated into LFS. :shrug: Seeing them drive at Caldwell park just shows how well they can take the bumps/elevation/direction changes, which are the exact things which kill the LX in LFS :(

Just look how easy it is for those guys to control the cars, and recover slides. I never feel safe sliding the LXs unfortunately :( Mind you, they are most likely much better drivers for a start :D

Maybe its just my driving style, but I find that I just cannot be in the least bit wreckless with the LXs or they bite your head off. I have to drive ultra smooth on the perfect lines to get anywhere near a reasonable time.

Is there anything missing from the LX modelling? i.e. suspension model incomplete? Or is it just the overall physics update we are waiting for? Ive never been quite sure.

Just looking at all the bumps and stuff they go over, they have great grip. Sinbad explained they use all-weather road tires for the Caterhams at Caldwell and Knockhill, and geez, the LX4 should be like this! It is pretty lightweight and nimble, but like we've all noticed, low-speed grip and grip in general is just strange. So many elevation changes and bumps, and the car just rides over them with ease, and the cars look pretty stiff. Even at Brands Hatch, you can see the cars have great control coming down the Turn 1 hill (2nd lap), that reminds me of the Cadet chicane... but look at the control the real car has. Just amazes me really, and overall... our LX racing is just not as intense, it still feels like driving a sluggish road car.

[Unclefloug]

great vids there, knockhill is an amazing ciruit, its not untill you've actually driven it you understand the elevation changes!

[mrbogeyman]

our LX racing is just not as intense, it still feels like driving a sluggish road car.

if you compare the Caterham vids to the Jaguar XJS ones that were posted you can see the difference in handling. The Jags have to take it easy at T1 at Brands, as they go all boaty then sink down and step out at the bottom of the hill, but the Caterhams barely notice it :D

[Fordman]

Hmm, what happens if you put slicks in RAC? Sounds pretty interesting as the LX6 is so nice to drive with slicks :)

*Starts LFS*

Still difficult, but not as half :D

[Bob Smith]

Ah, sodding flash videos. What's wrong with a good old downloadable avi?

[Lautsprecher[NOR]]

Ah, sodding flash videos. What's wrong with a good old downloadable avi?People love google.:shrug:

[deggis]

Ah, sodding flash videos. What's wrong with a good old downloadable avi?
Didn't notice my post? Those google vids are in crap quality anyways.

[ajp71]

We definatley do not need more kerbing in LFS, it all ready has far too much (just like all sims), kerbing will never be the best way around the track and whilst some modern cars are setup to kerb, namely Caterhams, BTCC and F1, other single seaters (such as Formula Renault and F3000 cars) would simply be ripped to pieces as a result of kerbing.

once again...nice vid:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2854061566277163544
not lx like, but nice...
could be XRG-like, or so...

Definatley not XRG like at all, XJSs are big cars, the ones racing now of highly developed running on modern slicks and suspension with a lot of chassis strength added in, this is what an XJS should really be like:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6618509877425244029&q=xjs

[Tweaker]

The point of all this is not to have more kerbing.... but to have the grip and stability these cars have. Even that Jaguar vid is a good enough vid to show that we, in LFS, really struggle a lot more than you think.

[Niels Heusinkveld]

I'm getting really anxious for a physics patch.

What is also interesting in LFS is how easy you put down skid marks. This must be coupled to 'excessive slip' in the sim somehow and it just seems that tyres leave their 'stick' zone without any effort. Anyway, with no words from Scawen's keyboard I'm afraid we have to wait and see. He clearly is good enough as a programmer but is he methodic in his approach for the most realism? I have good hopes, but then again, S1 and S2 alpha are so far from realism that I doubt I would release them in that state. How good is the programmers approach to realism when the difference from S1 to S2 was noticable, but certainly not close to realism? Its up to Scawen to take away the doubts, hopefully sometime this year! :)

My current Lx4 setup is here http://lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=4843&d=1136598327 I find it fairly realistic to drive this way, but its masking the problems, not solving them.

[Tweaker]

Good point about the skidmarks.... yeah they show up a lot, and probably to do something with slip... The skidmarks are really rare to see in reality, we have them all over the place.

The low grip in LFS applies to so many things... and yeah the skidmarks kind of show you such things happening. Quite a few people have argued about the tires locking up way too easily, low speed grip especially around bumps is scary... etc. The speed of our cornering is fine, but it seems so wierd to say that if Scawen were to improve the grip levels, that'd mean we'd be going a lot faster in most areas. I just wonder how it would be possible to even match the speeds we have on these cars but at the same time, improve the grip so it isn't so unforgiving. Because if we could have some forgiveable grip in the LX cars, it would probably be well matched to look like these Caterhams in the videos. I only hope for that day to come :o

Anyways, I am 100% for this face paced intense LX racing... a lot of our racing is long heavy turns, and not showing enough ability of the car. South City areas might show it, but that has walls and irregular bumps :( (still fun there though :))

[mrbogeyman]

one example of the skid marks which i find excessive is just when pulling off the grid.

i was racing Gti last night, and surely a 1.3L car cannot leave 11 skidmarks that long :shrug:

i know people mention the slip angles alot, but does this not involve elastic/torque grip within the tyres? i know the tyres are very spongey, and at the moment also with very low pressures, but it is still so easy for grip to brake away. in real life, in my opinion, a 1.3Gti would struggle pulling big 11 skidmarks with such low pressures.

maybe it is just an excessive ammount of 'skidmark draw' when actually very little skidding is taking place?

anywhoo, im pretty sure scawen knows what is needed, and any details/ideas/thoughts we have are helpful. :tilt:

[GT Touring]

the grip is the most lacking thing for the LX cars, even if they are powered well to weight, they still have hard ice covered rear wheel, curbs send them spinning, shame...
but how to balance the grip ion the LX and the tight control, versus the other rear drivers...or is it still a matter of bad grip modelling?:shrug:

[Hyperactive]

I'm pretty sure it has sometinh do to with the road tyres grip, when they are starting to slip/gripping. Like the RA when it slides, first no grip and big slide, then suddenly all grip and wheee! But I'd say that the suspension might need some rework too... If you look those videos you can see the cars doing little slides every now and then but in LFS it is more like no slide, no slide, BIIIG slide, no slide, no slide. One thing I'd like to know is that how sensitive those sevens are for throttle lift in corners...

PS: The RA was nice with slicks, needs completely new and different setup for slicks though :)

[Boris Lozac]

Yesterday, i finally set in the control panel, the options spring effect and damper effect to 0 (was 100 before) after stumbling upon some posts of Tristan and others.. I never changed those options, always thought that on 100 it is the best.. :pillepall Anyway, after setting them to 0, it's like i aplied some new physics patch! :D Tried the LX4, and what a feedback did i recieve! I feel like a total fool, playing with those wrong settings all this time.. So, now i have MUCH more feedback from the wheel, and i found the driving pleasure now as twice as good then before.. I feel all those elevation changes, going over bumps, cerbs, much more precise and detailed now.. LX4 felt in total control now, and i could really drive it normally, BUT, you have to accept one thing.. we do not have any G forces, the pedals are plastic without resistance(to most) and the wheel is not near the quality of real life wheels.. So you must be very cafeful driving cars in simulations. When i sometimes totally imagine that i am in a real car, really racing.. then i tend to be extremely carefull with pedals, and extremely carefull with the wheel, and then the driving looks and feels just like the RL driving.. I know that you all know this, but doesn't hurt to remind you from time to time.. :) I am not saying that everything is OK with grip, and physics, but it is not as most people say it is, because they are just pushing the car more, then they would, and don't know the limits because of lacking g forces, and all this non resistance equipment that we use..

[deggis]

When i sometimes totally imagine that i am in a real car, really racing.. then i tend to be extremely carefull with pedals, and extremely carefull with the wheel, and then the driving looks and feels just like the RL driving.. I know that you all know this, but doesn't hurt to remind you from time to time.. :)
That is a very stimulating feeling. :)

[himself]

Here's some more LX style car racing.

http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/westvid/misanomegabusa2.mpeg

[deggis]

Here's some more LX style car racing.

http://www.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/westvid/misanomegabusa2.mpeg
Sliding <3

[bobvanvliet]

To Bob Smith: If you install the google player, and then choose to download the (link to) the video. Play it once in Google player (so that it really downloads it) and then you can just rename the gvi file it creates to an avi. It's a bit of a hassle, but worth it if you want to save a video or want to use it for something else.

Anyhoo: I watched those first 4 videos and I must say... Everyone (including the camera car) is sliding all over the place. Plenty of opposite lock. Granted, they do recover easily, but keep in mind those are privately owned cars so they're a wee bit more careful than we are in LFS.

So although you won't hear me say the LXs are the most realistic driving cars, IMHO the difference isn't as big as some people make it out to be...

[bobvanvliet]

Sliding <3

Yeah, and cool how he casually overtakes all the expensive Lotuses and Feraris :D.

Btw, that's the first LX6 type thing I've seen in RL (bulge on hood).

Edit: Sorry for the double post, didn't see the second page when I posted the first time...

[v4forlife]

i have a friend who has a track prepped lotus 7 and ive been round it around cadwell before, and it was so much fun.

btw, cadwells my fav track too, its a blast on my 400 and as its tight i can easily pass bigger bikes, cause the straights arnt big enough to make a huge difference

[v4forlife]

oh, and check out z cars, and try and find their twin zx9r engined caterham. that is mad. ive been in a single busa engined rwd mini, but id crap myself in the tiger