Head to Head: Summer Series '08 - Event 4

[blackbird04217]

Well, here it goes again. Event 4: UFR at Aston Club (AS2). These cars are very top heavy, easy to roll and front wheel drive with tons of power is going to lead to some severe understeer during the exit of corners for those with a heavy foot.

Please make a post and include you real name to confirm.

Confirmed
---------

1) Tim Beaudet
2) Michael Passingham
3) Eduardo de Souza
4) Patrik Seidler
5) Blas Aguilar
6) Kasper Johnsen
7) Zdeněk Cagaš
8) Jo vegard Goderstad
9) Nolan Scott
10) James Marsden
11) Matthew Beattie
12) Jack Ward
13) Jakub Šimek
14) Tony Lönnström
15) Ariel Hartung
16) Niko Puntola
17) Felix Funke
18) Donaciano Martinez
19) Taha El Alaoui
20) Martin Sahlström
21) Chris Karstern

[zeugnimod]

Patrik Seidler is going to land on the roof. :thumb:

[Blas89]

Blas Aguilar! will lose in the first race :(

[Kaw]

Im gonna be there :smileypul

Upside down maybe ;)

[Kid222]

Zdeněk Cagaš will land upside down on your roof!

[Smurfen]

Jo vegard Goderstad will be there, just hope i will be able to join the qualify :(

[BigTime]

Nolan Scott is ready.

[Jambo]

Add me to the list. im up for it :)


James Marsden - SR Jambo

[AMB]

Matthew Beattie will be there to show how much I hate the UFR, flippy flippy wippy dippy i goez.

[jwardy]

Jack Ward , Might be there not sure though , is it this sunday ?

[J@tko]

Jack Ward , Might be there not sure though , is it this sunday ?
Its a week on saturday.

[jwardy]

Its a week on saturday.
Good so i have this next sat and the mixed class thing on sunday .

[Kdovi]

Jakub Šimek *put some random message about roof'n'stuuf here* :nod:

[tonyonparas]

Tony Lönnström will be there, if the mother nature allows me to...

[jwardy]

ive been given permission to have these to days free after a discussion that i had family matters to attend to . lol . i love my boss ( me )

[hariel-HUN-]

Ariel Hartung: ready to go.

[LFSn00b]

Niko Puntola or something...

[speedway]

Felix Funke is going to be there and will get his 3rd place in the standings back.

You heard me Mr. Seidler and Mr. de Souza!!!

[blackbird04217]

I'll be waiting to interview you at the end then . . . Good luck with your dreams!

[de Souza]

You heard me Mr. Seidler and Mr. de Souza!!!

:haha:

[zeugnimod]

:haha:

I wish I could do the same.

But I am realistic. :D

[de Souza]

Any ideas what is a good time? I think my best so far was a 1:06.7 on a flying lap. That's far from the WR. :(

[AMB]

Not tried..might get back to you with a time later.

edit: First lap 1:06.8

[speedway]

:haha:

I think my best so far was a 1:06.7 on a flying lap.

If you want to keep making that face, you better get out there and practise some more. :D :razz:

[zeugnimod]

Even I was a bit faster than that. :tilt:

[chanoman315]

Donaciano Martinez will be there ;)

[evilpimp]

Taha El Alaoui should be there. (hopefully grr)

[de Souza]

If you want to keep making that face, you better get out there and practise some more. :D :razz:

You've been faster than me for forever, and still I got 16 more points. You're not scaring me that way. :D :razz: Now if you say it's really you on your avatar... :schwitz:

On an almost serious note, I tried to join the cutely named "meow" server when you and ziggy was there to say hi but it's private. :/ Not that I would practice anyway...


Edit: good to hear from you Mista. :)

[Martin.S]

Martin Sahlström :thumbsup:

[jwardy]

im a pull out unless sudden mirracles happen

[Chrisuu01]

Chris Karstern wil be there and wil have a lap in the training sesion where he wil flip over 6 times:razz:

[Kid222]

My chance of racing in this event has suddenly dropped to 5%. Write me off, because it's very unlikely that i will arrive.

EDIT: Ooh, 222 posts. :D

[blackbird04217]

Sorry to hear that. Hope that 5% becomes a large 5% :goodvibes:

[Martin.S]

My chance of racing in this event has suddenly dropped to 5%. Write me off, because it's very unlikely that i will arrive.

Same for me - sorry! :(

[evilpimp]

There are no words to describe the ammount of hate I have for this car. Stupid FWD's feel so awkward to drive. (plus I don't like this track anyways :P) but hey I'll have to drive anyways I guess.

[de Souza]

there Are No Words To Describe The Ammount Of Hate I Have For This Car. Stupid Fwd's Feel So Awkward To Drive. (plus I Don't Like This Track Anyways :p) But Hey I'll Have To Drive Anyways I Guess.

+1.

[zeugnimod]

There are no words to describe the ammount of hate I have for this car.

+2

Although, I generally like FWD and also the track. :shrug:

[Mischief007]

Didn't see this thread :(. I'll be there though just in case there's room. Lukasz Kaczmarek.

[shaun463]

Shaun Dacosta will be there (He can now race properly, because his wheel is actually calibrating now!)!

[Jambo]

Just wondering what times you guys are getting from a standing start?

[Kaw]

I have no idea if this is good anyway, but low 13's

[zeugnimod]

I have no idea if this is good anyway, but low 13's

Shit, I'm 1 minute slower. :(

[Chrisuu01]

I might not show up guys

Im having some neck troubles:(

[Kaw]

Shit, I'm 1 minute slower. :(

Again? :razz:

[Kid222]

Hope that 5% becomes a large 5% :goodvibes:
Things have changed and now it's large 5%. I'll be there.

Sometimes i'm wondering, how often things like this happen in my life, pretty scary.:really:...:D

[AMB]

Can someone send me the server password?

[blackbird04217]

Trying to get the server situation sorted right now.

Glad to hear you guys can make it and ther will be room for all of you I do believe. PMs will go out as soon as the Server is dealt with...

[zeugnimod]

THIS IS STUPID!

He hit me because he tried to pass me on the GRASS in race 1, didn't wait for me and won with 1.5 seconds and you do NOTHING!

Ridiculous.

[Kid222]

Got pwned by de Souza.. again. I'm embarrassed.... j/k:D
Next time i'll be your final station.:razz:

[Kdovi]

..Ridiculous.
+Ed won against him without problems, securing his 3rd place :shrug: (nothing against de Souza of course)

[Kaw]

I file a complaint agains Niko Ponutla

Match 13:

First of all I would like to say that he lagged all over the place and spun out on my screen twice.

Second he blocked med off in the last corner and made me hit the tires and them him. And due to the lag problems Niko made my flip off and I lost major time. And Niko said he did understeer, that is plain bullpoo, because he didnt even try to steer. So yeah, look at this screen shot for evidence for the lack of steering by Niko http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/Shagz22/lfs_00000011

In second race I believe that I showed everyone that I was the fastest of us to. And that havent it been for Niko's blocking. I would've won

EDIT:

I demand (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=883033#post883033) a penalty, LOL

[evilpimp]

Erm that was some seriously good racing at the start but it got a bit weird after.

I'm just waiting on the chart to know how Niko got around to making up for 2.2 full seconds.

[Mp3 Astra]

THIS IS STUPID!

He hit me because he tried to pass me on the GRASS in race 1, didn't wait for me and won with 1.5 seconds and you do NOTHING!

Ridiculous.

We deal with incidents after the event, like in real life. If somebody wants to behave like a jackass in they can do so and face the concequences, however severe they may be. I understand that you are unhappy about what happened, but everybody knows the procedure and you have to accept it. So, it's not ridiculous and we don't appreciate being called stupid or ridiculous for using our own rules as we have done for the last 4 events.

[Mp3 Astra]

Erm that was some seriously good racing at the start but it got a bit weird after.

I'm just waiting on the chart to know how Niko got around to making up for 2.2 full seconds.

We believe there was a bug in the system, and that you actually did win. Although that does need confirmation.

[zeugnimod]

So what are you going to do? Give me 50 points? I was 2nd in quali and I think I had chances for at least the semifinal.

And I do remember very clearly that someone's win didn't count in event 1 when he did a similarly unfair move at T1.

[tonyonparas]

Niko Ponutla :D

The pic is removed and lag crahses are always hard to judge.
But do we need to judge at all.. lets move on





I have never said anything smarter..

[Mp3 Astra]

So what are you going to do? Give me 50 points? I was 2nd in quali and I think I had chances for at least the semifinal.

And I do remember very clearly that someone's win didn't count in event 1 when he did a similarly unfair move at T1.

That was different, if there is a pass to win due to a bad move we do tend to cancel the pass to win. But since no pass to win took place, you can't do anything.

And you don't just get given points, that's not how the world works. The guilty are punished and the innocent are happy that the guilty people have been punished. Anyway, this incident will be under review.

[hyntty]

Niko Ponutla


:D:D

Sorry to barge in in your thread

[Kaw]

Niko Ponutla :D

The pic is removed and lag crahses are always hard to judge.
But do we need to judge at all.. lets move on





I have never said anything smarter..


Lag crashes is hard to judge, yess. But I deffinately do not see why I am the one that has to suffer because Niko got a 512 kb Internet, while he is downloading porn. Or something.
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/Shagz22/lfs_00000011.jpg

[evilpimp]

Niko did lag quite a bit today... Like when I was behind him and all of a sudden he goes flying as if I hit him while I have no damage whatsoever and my wheel did not detect any contact? :S

Anyways looking forward to seeing if I actually did win this. :)

[blackbird04217]

Ok guys the stuff will be handled as soon as possible. I am in dire need of an some food so I will be back and the admin team and I will deal with all issues.

There will be no points given to anyone during any part of the season for any reason that I can think of at the moment. The only thing that can happen is people receiving the penalties that the have been convicted of and found to be guilty.

[zeugnimod]

Whatever...

[speedway]

Niko Ponutla :D

The pic is removed and lag crahses are always hard to judge.
But do we need to judge at all.. lets move on





I have never said anything smarter..

since the above is quite stupid, the very last sentence actually worries me

[LFSn00b]

Whats with people spelling finnish names all wrong :confused:

Anyways, on the topic now:

I drove on the chicane (Kasper Jhosnen vs. Me) and on that chicane i started to press too much gas hoping for a faster exit. I started to understeer and obviously hit Kasper. Like i said i am sorry for what happened, it was not deliberate like you think, Kasper.

[LFSn00b]

The pic is removedhttp://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u39/Shagz22/lfs_00000011.jpg


Sorry for doublepost so quick before last post.

[blackbird04217]

Results are still being looked at and such but here are the race replays.

[BigTime]

That was different, if there is a pass to win due to a bad move we do tend to cancel the pass to win. But since no pass to win took place, you can't do anything.

And you don't just get given points, that's not how the world works. The guilty are punished and the innocent are happy that the guilty people have been punished. Anyway, this incident will be under review.

Well this is something that needs to be added to the system... That race should have ether been reset or the time gained from it, removed from the scoring sheet. I think other than that, Tim has the in-sim dialed in, but this is an important subject that really should be changeable during the event.

I drove on the chicane (Kasper Jhosnen vs. Me) and on that chicane i started to press too much gas hoping for a faster exit. I started to understeer and obviously hit Kasper. Like i said i am sorry for what happened, it was not deliberate like you think, Kasper.

I don't think Kaw feels that what you did was deliberate, but you pushed wide in order to keep speed and then apologize by saying my car understeered due to wheel spin... That would be like saying, "oh, your on my outside but I would have to slow in order not to hit you, so I stayed full throttle and pushed you out of my way." The simple fact is that throughout the season, you have been pointed out for aggressive driving multiple times. We had this same debate after round 2 and I think its time you start playing like everyone else or the admins need to start taking action. Thought it seems it is to little late to change what happened in this and subsiquent rounds, it's something I want you to be aware of going into the final round.

Just remember that you don't have to purposely crash someone to ruin their race.

[blackbird04217]

Well this is something that needs to be added to the system... That race should have ether been reset or the time gained from it, removed from the scoring sheet. I think other than that, Tim has the in-sim dialed in, but this is an important subject that really should be changeable during the event.


Ok, let me make this clear to everyone who has had, and will ever have a question about a race being reset. The only way in which results can be changed during the event is if there is contact and spinning during a Pass To Win move. That is it. It is too much pressure for the admins to dictate whether someone made a bad move or such. Take event 3 for example. Kasper vs Niko during the blocking incident. Had that review happened during the real event I would have called Kasper out and Niko would have continued, only to have later found out the truth. But since we do these penalties after the event I was able to look into it for an hour and a half and find the truth, which resulted in no penalties.

This has also been mentioned before here: http://www.lfsforum.netshowthread.php?p=877697#post877697[/B]]here (
I don't think Kaw feels that what you did was deliberate.
[/quote]

Then why did we get a report, and why are we wasting adminning time on a racing incident / non-deliberate manuover? ... I am hoping Kasper feels this was deliberate, especially with his behavior after the event...

but you pushed wide in order to keep speed and then apologize by saying my car understeered due to wheel spin... That would be like saying, "oh, your on my outside but I would have to slow in order not to hit you, so I stayed full throttle and pushed you out of my way." The simple fact is that throughout the season, you have been pointed out for aggressive driving multiple times. We had this same debate after round 2 and I think its time you start playing like everyone else [b]or the admins need to start taking action. Thought it seems it is to little late to change what happened in this and subsiquent rounds, it's something I want you to be aware of going into the final round.

Just remember that you don't have to purposely crash someone to ruin their race.

I would like an honest opinion of when myself or the other admins have not been taking action? We have reviewed all incidents between Niko and Kasper as well as the one between Niko and yourself and agreed some were aggressive, others were followed up with aggressive manuavers on Kasper's side as well, but I am confident in our abilities to make the right decisions about handing out penalties as we have done so as fairly as I can tell.

This little dispute between Niko and Kasper needs to end as it has been going back and forth since the second event. The racing incidents we as admins have looked into have been aggressively on the borders of line breaking, but some of the attitudes coming at us from both sides of this equation are really making me think whether it's worth it to run... I've seen very good battles and amazing moves, H2H is about having the skills and the guts to make a move. We have seen very generous drivers slow down and wait for the other to catch up, but this dispute or whatever is plain non-sense and needs to stop at the track. I don't mind the aggressive racing, to the limits within the specified rules, but this bickering back and forth about "I think that should have been a penalty", "I demand a penalty", "this is unfair" needs to end. Bring up a simple report as Kasper did, then wait for the results... That all that needs to happen, no more ranting, no more bragging or crying that the penalty you wanted applied didn't get applied...

This is not pointed at anyone! But some people have made comments so this needs to be noted.. About the points you may/may not have lost because of anothers unfairness (when they actually get the penalties applied because of being unfair) can not be dealt with as we can't give you points for something you didn't do. Sure you may have made it to the finals if you hadn't been take out, but you might have crashed yourself. In real life racing, someone takes you out you do not get any points. I can not fairly do this, definitely not this series with 1 event remaining, probably not in future series. If you have an idea to change that there is always the improvent thread...

[BigTime]

Ok, let me make this clear to everyone who has had, and will ever have a question about a race being reset. The only way in which results can be changed during the event is if there is contact and spinning during a Pass To Win move. That is it. It is too much pressure for the admins to dictate whether someone made a bad move or such. Take event 3 for example. Kasper vs Niko during the blocking incident. Had that review happened during the real event I would have called Kasper out and Niko would have continued, only to have later found out the truth. But since we do these penalties after the event I was able to look into it for an hour and a half and find the truth, which resulted in no penalties.

This has also been mentioned before here: http://www.lfsforum.netshowthread.php?p=877697#post877697[/b]]here (http://%5BB).

This was in response to zeugnimod's incident... Secondly, that is not to much pressure because you are not obligated to change a race. It's simply something that should be a part of your in-sim when those really obvious incidents accord, such as with the incident involving zeugnimod.*

*I have not reviewed this incident, I'm simply going off what I saw during the race and read in the forum.

Then why did we get a report, and why are we wasting adminning time on a racing incident / non-deliberate manuover? ... I am hoping Kasper feels this was deliberate, especially with his behavior after the event...

Just because he didn't purposely push him into the tires, doesn't make it right for him to do so on accident...

I would like an honest opinion of when myself or the other admins have not been taking action? We have reviewed all incidents between Niko and Kasper as well as the one between Niko and yourself and agreed some were aggressive, others were followed up with aggressive maneuvers on Kasper's side as well, but I am confident in our abilities to make the right decisions about handing out penalties as we have done so as fairly as I can tell.

I'm sorry if you took this the wrong way but the statement, "I think its time you start playing like everyone else or the admins need to start taking action" was directed to the future tense. I do not think the admins need to do anything different with this and/or any other subsequent events because those protest, incidents, and results where handled properly. I'm basically stating that super aggressive moves, that make the non-aggressors loose speed, may want to be looked at more strictly in the future, especially in reference to Niko.

This little dispute between Niko and Kasper needs to end as it has been going back and forth since the second event. The racing incidents we as admins have looked into have been aggressively on the borders of line breaking, but some of the attitudes coming at us from both sides of this equation are really making me think whether it's worth it to run... I've seen very good battles and amazing moves, H2H is about having the skills and the guts to make a move. We have seen very generous drivers slow down and wait for the other to catch up, but this dispute or whatever is plain non-sense and needs to stop at the track. I don't mind the aggressive racing, to the limits within the specified rules, but this bickering back and forth about "I think that should have been a penalty", "I demand a penalty", "this is unfair" needs to end. Bring up a simple report as Kasper did, then wait for the results... That all that needs to happen, no more ranting, no more bragging or crying that the penalty you wanted applied didn't get applied...

This is not pointed at anyone! But some people have made comments so this needs to be noted.. About the points you may/may not have lost because of anothers unfairness (when they actually get the penalties applied because of being unfair) can not be dealt with as we can't give you points for something you didn't do. Sure you may have made it to the finals if you hadn't been take out, but you might have crashed yourself. In real life racing, someone takes you out you do not get any points. I can not fairly do this, definitely not this series with 1 event remaining, probably not in future series. If you have an idea to change that there is always the improvent thread...

I agree with this. I still feel the addition to the in-sim might be something to think about for next season for when blatant incidents do happen.

[blackbird04217]

This was in response to zeugnimod's incident... Secondly, that is not to much pressure because you are not obligated to change a race. It's simply something that should be a part of your in-sim when those really obvious incidents accord, such as with the incident involving zeugnimod.*

*I have not reviewed this incident, I'm simply going off what I saw during the race and read in the forum.

This incident has been reviewed now and will be announced later. It took us a solid 30 minutes of going through the replay. I don't think this was as "clear" as you seem to. I don't see any incident being all that clear. I want to be 100% certain about something instead of guessing, especially since the admin team all had different opinions on the matter...

[BigTime]

I want to be 100% certain about something instead of guessing, especially since the admin team all had different opinions on the matter...

I agree that you have to be 100% but all I was trying to say was that this might be something to consider for your in-sim for when you are 100% sure about something. I've made my point so that's all you'll hear from me about that, I just want you to know that I'm not disagreeing with any rulings you have made...

[Mp3 Astra]

I agree that you have to be 100% but all I was trying to say was that this might be something to consider for your in-sim for when you are 100% sure about something. I've made my point so that's all you'll hear from me about that, I just want you to know that I'm not disagreeing with any rulings you have made...

All you really need for an incident where you're 100% sure is a ban button. Which is something that already exists. We can only be 100% sure on incidents (we have only watched once) where a blatant piece of wrecking happened, which thankfully hasn't happened and never will.

[blackbird04217]

Offender Penalty Amount Reasoning Proof

Niko Demec 15pt P2 Penalty Aggressive, unsafe move that lead to an accident. (RC.2.5) Niko Demec & Patrik Seidler.jpgs Match8 Race1
Chris Karsten 10pt P1 Penalty Talking during Match2 Race1. (RC.1) H2HEvent4 Round1 Match2 Race1.mpr Match2 Race1
Niko Demec 10pt P1 Penalty Talking during Match10 Race1. (RC.1) H2HEvent4 Round2 Match10 Race1.mpr Match10 Race1
James Marsden 10pt P1 Penalty Talking during Match10 Race1. (RC.1) H2HEvent4 Round2 Match10 Race1.mpr Match10 Race1
Zdenek Cagas 10pt P1 Penalty Talking during Match11 Race1. (RC.1) H2HEvent4 Round2 Match11 Race1.mpr Match11 Race1

Filed Reports-

Niko Demec recieved a 15pt P2 penalty for very aggressive behvior at turn 1 of Match8 Race1. He had the speed but did not have the position to move in. Patrik had the corner and Niko squeezed into an unsafe area getting on the grass and bumping Patrik into a spin. The throttle control shows that Niko maintained this aggressive move during the initial contact and did release when Patrik spun however and this advantage is the reason for the penalty.

Kasper Johnsen's complaint about Niko Puntola has been disregarded as a racing incident where both racers were aggressive but Niko did have advantage into the corner. After watching the replay from several angles Niko had the rights to the corner and Kasper tried an aggressive move to put his car where it didn't really belong as Niko had more than 98% of his car in front of Kasper. Niko took the corner aggresively but as stated had the rights to keep the line that he chose.


Those are the results for slightly more info look at the replays (http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=63999&d=1218922868) and the attachment here to see more.

[zeugnimod]

Sorry for my reaction last night. I take back the "stupid" and "ridiculous" comment. It wasn't directed at the admins or the whole league anyway if that's how you understood it. I normally don't get that angry over LFS but I really think I had chances for the final seeing that I had the second fastest quali time. There is finally a league I might get a good position in in the end and it gets destroyed like this. :x

But still, if he did what every clean and fair racer would have done (especially considering that it was his first event and I was in a fight for the podium in the championship) and waited for me after causing an accident (which he apparently wanted to do at first but then he decided to just go on for whatever reason) this wouldn't have happened.

For the rest, I agree with Nolan. Such incidents need to be reviewed during the race IMO.

Well, sorry again. :shy:

[Kaw]

Thats cool. I still dont understand why I have to die because of Niko's lag. Doesnt make anysense in my head.

[Mp3 Astra]

Sorry for my reaction last night. I take back the "stupid" and "ridiculous" comment. It wasn't directed at the admins or the whole league anyway if that's how you understood it. I normally don't get that angry over LFS but I really think I had chances for the final seeing that I had the second fastest quali time. There is finally a league I might get a good position in in the end and it gets destroyed like this. :x

But still, if he did what every clean and fair racer would have done (especially considering that it was his first event and I was in a fight for the podium in the championship) and waited for me after causing an accident (which he apparently wanted to do at first but then he decided to just go on for whatever reason) this wouldn't have happened.

For the rest, I agree with Nolan. Such incidents need to be reviewed during the race IMO.

Well, sorry again. :shy:

As we said, it can't happen because it took 3 of us half an hour to agree on your incident, and on other incidents in the previous weeks it has taken an equally long time. Now, if we have two of those in an event, that's 1 hour of waiting for the racers, which is unacceptable for those not involved in incidents. So, like in real life short races, we do the judging after the races to keep the event flowing, and like in real life sometimes you get unlucky with your races, and you have to move on.

And thanks for apologising - it takes a real racer to see his flaw :D

[tonyonparas]

Michael, make a blame game episode of the Kaw´s and Niko´s crash :D

[BigTime]

Michael, make a blame game episode of the Kaw´s and Niko´s crash :D

I wouldn't mind seeing zeugnimod and Niko's crash either. A double blame game!

[evilpimp]

Hmm, any official results chart?

[blackbird04217]

They will be coming as soon as they are done.