Choosing a wheel. Which do you recommand.

[xagna]

Hi, Guys,

I currently use MS precision sidewind wheel. This is a good wheel but two things I don't like about this: No FF and the steering has a center groove that fixes the steering when it returns to center thus preventing precise control within 1 to 3 degrees within the center.

My budget is $150 and I am considering both used and new ones. What model do you recommand? I am looking into Logitech driving force pro but would like to listen to you guys. I prefer a wheel that doesn't fix the steering when it returns to center and good FF.

[A4WD]

I just bought the Logitech MOMO racing wheel for my pc. ill let you know how it is. unless someone else has any info on it before it gets delivered to my house?

[Vendetta]

Logitech Driving Force Pro. :thumb:

[Tweaker]

Logitech MOMO (black) wheel is good, and the Microsoft FF Sidewinder wheel is good aswell.

As long as you can disable the centering spring in the FF options, but still have the FF on, you will love how it feels in LFS. (Some people have centering spring on, and it is not a good idea to have that. So make sure you can disable that option easily).

Within your range of $150, you could easily get a nice wheel that will last quite a long time. There is always a downside to at least one part or feature of all the wheels, whether it be the pedals life, connections become loose, whatever.... but they should last as long as you treat them well and don't thrash them around.

If I wanted to get a new wheel within your range, I would look at the following:

Logitech MOMO (black)
Logitech DFP
Microsoft Sidewinder FF

Those 3 wheels are easily the best choice, and widely used by everyone here. Fast drivers use the MS wheel, and use the Logitech wheels, it doesn't matter. You just need to choose :) (Most people go with Logitech)

I have experience with Logitech wheels, and I think they are great, the downside is the pedals... but you can have them last for a long time if you keep them in good shape and maintain them every now and then. (The pedals basically start to lose their functionality, get twitchy response, or whatever (the potentiometers), but you can fix it). You may also want to consider doing mods to the springs to make the pedals stiffer, that way, it isn't as easy to 'bottom out' your potentiometers by slamming the pedal up and down so easily.

The only wheel out of those 3 that I would be skeptical about is the DFP actually. I have had a lot of FF wheels, and tried this wheel before. The whiney gears I don't exactly like, and well even though it has 900 degree lock, I really would only use that feature for fun.... but for driving fast, most drivers switch to the low-degree lock mode because with LFS, you want quicker response time with your wheel. Even though the small degree of lock isn't exactly real, for simulations it is a must these days... and you will be in far more control than with 900 degrees. But since LFS supports the 900 degree lock very well, getting that wheel might be something to consider --- it is a lot of fun.

The black MOMO is also a good wheel for a new upgrade, and it is just as good as any of the other wheels listed above :shrug:

The MS FF Sidewinder is good, and I have only used it a few times, but I don't know the long-term results of using it, maybe someone else could explain.

Overall, those wheels can make you better and faster, and it really doesn't matter what wheel you choose, you could easily get World Records with any of those wheels ;)

[xagna]

Tweak, Thanks so much for your lengthy input. It was really helpful. I am using MS precision sidewinder which is the one you mentioned minus FF. One thing I didn't like about my current wheel was the centering spring. Which ones of those three have centering spring like MS precision sidewinder wheel? I am sure that MS sidewinder FF have centering spring. Is it possible for me to disable the centering spring in my current wheel, do you think?

[mrodgers]

Tweak, Thanks so much for your lengthy input. It was really helpful. I am using MS precision sidewinder which is the one you mentioned minus FF. One thing I didn't like about my current wheel was the centering spring. Which ones of those three have centering spring like MS precision sidewinder wheel? I am sure that MS sidewinder FF have centering spring. Is it possible for me to disable the centering spring in my current wheel, do you think?
I was going to respond last night to this, but didn't. Tweak's post was good. For Tweak's mention and your question about the centering spring and disabling it, on FF wheels, it is the FF creating the "centering spring" not a mechanical system of real springs. So you can diable it in the software drivers. With FF, you do not want to use centering spring. (perhaps Tweak, you were refering to posts from me about "Some people have centering spring on, and it is not a good idea to have that..." If so, I don't use centering spring, but I do have the spring strength turned up). Xagna, for you that (...) text back there <--- is a different issue and topic, so just ignore that. But like Tweak said, any of the wheels he mentions would be good wheels to get. FWIW, I have a Momo as well and love it.

[A4WD]

sweet! thanks for the advice guys. i cant wait for my MOMO to get UPS'ed over here

[CLOWNTJE]

Hello

I want a wheel wich i can use on my PC and PS2. Do you guys now a wheel that works on both ???

greetz
Clowntje

[Toigeru]

i think the Logitech PDF does those 2.....(not sure)

[tristancliffe]

Dfp

[Tweaker]

Errr sorry xagna, I should have described the Centering Spring a bit better. Because it seems you want one without. I really meant 'Centering Force' -- but it is just called Centering Spring.

On wheels without force feedback, they have an actual 'spring' that bounce the wheel back to center. Normal, and when it bounces back, it is all wobbly and stuff. I hated it too when I had a non-FF wheel.

On wheels WITH force feedback, they don't have a spring really, but the centering spring I was referring to is just a force feedback feature. So if the centering spring force is enabled, it will act like your wheel you have now, but it really just makes the steering 'harder' to steer --- and when turning the wheel to full lock and letting go, it isn't some quick springy action, it just centers and stops. (The force feedback controls the centering). And basically this can be used for people that want a strong steering resistance. If you have it off, it will be loose completely but you still have the Force Feedback enabled... and if you want stronger forces, just raise the force percentage level.

Having this Centering force disabled is what you want. Because an example of why it is so real and recommended is because LFS's steering linkage is sort of 'connected' with your forcefeedback.... and to have a proper feel, it needs to be disabled. Quite a few people have the centering force enabled, and that is bad bad bad (also if you have it on, some people get undesired wobbling when at the center deadzone).

So if you were to take the GT Turbo and flick the wheel to the left and floor the throttle, your wheel would stay locked to the left for a while, but when the car starts to rotate and regain control, your wheel should snap to the right, just like the real thing. Because your front wheels want to point in the right direction automatically. I am sure you've seen this when stunt drivers do 360's and the wheel spins rapidly beneath their hand. It helps for much better control and feel for the car sliding. If you had this centering force enabled, it would be all incorrect.... do those same steps of sliding the car, and the wheel would force itself to center and not naturally try to countersteer.

I wish I could make a video explaining it, but I hope you understand. ;)

I am pretty sure the MSFF wheel has the feature to disable, as do the other Logitech FF wheels.

[AndroidXP]

Logitech PDFOk, lets order an Adobe DFP. :scratchch


Seriously, a MS FF Wheel user reporting in here! Have to say, I'm quite satisfied with it. The FF is good, the precision too and the pedals are lasting forever. The only thing with them was that they got squeaky after some time, nothing a bit of grease and removing tons of dust didn't solve. The pots don't make any problems whatsoever, too.

I only know of two things that bother me:
The drivers. I can assure you, it was a PITA to find the latest 4.0 Sidewinder software, because for some weird reason there's nothing to be found on the official site. Even if you have them, they may act up funky. For example: The first time I installed my wheel & drivers everything worked perfectly. Then I reinstalled windows and suddenly clicking on the "Recorder" tab makes the sidewinder control panel go boom. I can only use the tab if I start up in safe mode. :shrug:
The center. The tiny little bit where there's no FF for about 1-2°. Not actually too apparent in normal racing, it's quite noticable in more extreme maneuvers. But then again, it's not as unsettling as it may sound.
Also, if you ever want to take it apart, look up how it works first. I finally did figure out how everything was put together, but boy, it was a long way... (no, you don't have to take the back apart to remove the wheel :x)

[xagna]

Ok, lets order an Adobe DFP. :scratchch
Also, if you ever want to take it apart, look up how it works first. I finally did figure out how everything was put together, but boy, it was a long way... (no, you don't have to take the back apart to remove the wheel :x)

Right now, I am nearly destroying my MS sidewinder precision wheel. I took all the screws out but base is not coming out apart! The front portion where usb cable comes out of the body is still stuck there. I am nudging it with big screw driver but it is still held tight. Damm!

[xagna]

So if you were to take the GT Turbo and flick the wheel to the left and floor the throttle, your wheel would stay locked to the left for a while, but when the car starts to rotate and regain control, your wheel should snap to the right, just like the real thing.

Like in drifting, you meant?
So if I get to do that with full 900 degree set... OMG! Snapping the wheel left and right with tail flying left and right will be like real car! Right?

[Tweaker]

Sure, it should do it correctly. Having 900 degrees of lock will certaintly make it more real, but I actually don't know for sure if wheel snaps and rotates back to the other direction very quickly.

Watch this video, it is what I am talking about (how the wheel spins quickly beneath his hands) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5499258118674674508&q=incar

If anyone as a DFP and uses no Centering Force, please give feedback if your wheel does this :) (However doing what this guy does in the video is so much easier on a a 270 degree lock wheel, 900 degrees would be pretty damn hard)

[xagna]

That is exactly what I want to do with LFS too. Playing with the fast snapping wheel on 900 degrees would be sweet.

[shim]

from my experience with the DFP, the wheel does snap, but slowly compaired to that clip..

[xagna]

If DFP snaps slower than the clip... 270 degree seems to be the logical choice... Thanks Shim for the input.

[AndroidXP]

Right now, I am nearly destroying my MS sidewinder precision wheel. I took all the screws out but base is not coming out apart! The front portion where usb cable comes out of the body is still stuck there. I am nudging it with big screw driver but it is still held tight. Damm!If you want to take the base apart (the thing the wheel is attached to), be sure to also check under the rubber pads. The designers were evil and additionally to the 20381203 other screws there are 3 more under those pads, too.

[xagna]

If you want to take the base apart (the thing the wheel is attached to), be sure to also check under the rubber pads. The designers were evil and additionally to the 20381203 other screws there are 3 more under those pads, too.

I was very lucky to take the rubbers off before reading your post above. Thanks!