Cheating?

[JackSun]

Are there any known cheats in this game?
I ask because I see some of the WR times seem ridiculously low.
On a number of circuits, the WR times for the UF1 Car are around 6 - 7 seconds faster than my pb. I've been in races on these circuits and other drivers who are faster than me are still only about 1 second or so faster.
If there are known cheats, is anything being done to detect them?

[tinyk]

Are there any known cheats in this game?
I ask because I see some of the WR times seem ridiculously low.
On a number of circuits, the WR times for the UF1 Car are around 6 - 7 seconds faster than my pb. I've been in races on these circuits and other drivers who are faster than me are still only about 1 second or so faster.
If there are known cheats, is anything being done to detect them?Some can be 1 - 2 secs faster simply by driving clean lines. :) There is a ride height bug but no 'cheats' that I know of. Save a replay of those faster drivers and watch their lines... you'll find very quickly how they make those times. :) Having a good setup also helps. :)

~*~*~*~tinyk~*~*~*~

[JackSun]

I realise I can get a better time. I have watched some of the WR replays and used some addon tools to compare my lines but I can't see where I'm losing 7 seconds on FE Green for example.
In some of the replays I see them go into corners nearly 10mph faster than I can (if I try that I slide off) it's as if they have slick tyres on a road tyre only car.

[cmckowen]

No worries man...there are no known cheats.....SCAWEN??
There is software that u can use to change the displacement of the cars engines and the like but these cannot be used when recording a hotlap or when racing online...the server will notice a game difference and your connection will not be made. It all comes down to practice.Really i am learning this out the hard way. The only way to get near those laptimes is long and hard practice for people the likes of you and me. :)
Also a good idea is too get hold of goo setups...very nice setups are available at the Team Inferno site, http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/

[tinyk]

I realise I can get a better time. I have watched some of the WR replays and used some addon tools to compare my lines but I can't see where I'm losing 7 seconds on FE Green for example.
In some of the replays I see them go into corners nearly 10mph faster than I can (if I try that I slide off) it's as if they have slick tyres on a road tyre only car.lol that's the 'alien' effect. :) Some of these guys seriously boggle my mind how easily they handle their cars at high speeds going in and out of corners. :) All I can say is maybe more practice and if you see one of them going that fast... ask him how he does it. :) The majority are very nice and will give you tips on how to hit a corner just right. :)


~*~*~*~tinyk~*~*~*~

[mrodgers]

I'm not that fast, but in my opinion, where I lack at compared to the fast, near WR, and WR guys, it's all in the line and throttle/braking control. The fastest guys are hitting lines perfectly, not getting sideways coming off the corner and not locking up and sliding going into the corner. The faster your times get, the longer it takes to get any faster. It's easy to get on for the first time in the GTi at BL and run under 2 minutes. A few laps in, you're in the 1:40's. Couple of races/days you're in the top 1:30's. Couple of weeks you're mid 1:30's. After a month or 2, you're hitting low 1:30's and a few secs. off the WR. Except for me, I get stuck at that mid 1:30's stage and after months and months, I improve very little. A good drivable setup is a good thing in the beginning, a fast setup will get you to the middle, when your close to the top, then you can race with pretty much any setup and it is all down to nitpicking your corners, line, pedal control, steering control, etc. Getting that turn-in point just a hair earlier or later can make the big difference when your stuck in a certain time frame.

[Jakg]

Are there any known cheats in this game?
I ask because I see some of the WR times seem ridiculously low.
On a number of circuits, the WR times for the UF1 Car are around 6 - 7 seconds faster than my pb. I've been in races on these circuits and other drivers who are faster than me are still only about 1 second or so faster.
If there are known cheats, is anything being done to detect them?try FE:Club in a UF1, it takes ages to get the power back up if you lose it, fastest i used to be able to get was 58 secs, although there was a large danger of me rolling it over, so i normally drove 59's and tried to speed up everywhere else, i changed my line in 1 corner and my times went down to 54 secs!

[Vendetta]

Yeah, the cheat is that they have more skill then you. Though you cant download it, it comes over time ;)

[SparkyDave]

F9 helps too :)

SD.

[vari]

I realise I can get a better time. I have watched some of the WR replays and used some addon tools to compare my lines but I can't see where I'm losing 7 seconds on FE Green for example.

'Analyse For Speed' will tell you that :)
http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=analysers

EDIT: The link seems to be dead so nm :(

[Gentlefoot]

I agree, the subtle differences in timing of a lift of the throttle, the amount of lift, amount of steering angle and turn in point or even the use of left foot braking - all this has an effect on the speed you will get through a corner.

I watched the WR for SO Sprint 2 and the WR holder was taking T1 at 60mph. I couldn't manage more than 57 but then when I raced it last night I was managing to maintain 60 through there. The difference was a smoother use of throttle and a slightly different turn in point and sharpness. And the thing is, it just came to me - I wasn't even trying to set fast laps - just wanted to stay clean and win the race.

[Cue-Ball]

'Analyse For Speed' will tell you that :)
http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=analysers

EDIT: The link seems to be dead so nm :(
The site appears to be screwed up, but you can still download the file.
http://www.ctd-racing.com/AFS/downloads.php

This tool will show you exactly where you're losing time. Just compare your .raf to the WR .raf and it will be quite obvious where you're losing time. My guess would be that you're overdriving - braking too late, then losing time coming out of the corner.

Also remember that WR times are just a single lap, not a race lap. So, you can put less fuel in the car, use different tires than you normally would for a race, run really aggressive camber that would burn up the tires in a normal race, etc. These things will all lead to quicker lap times for hotlapping, but won't work well in a race situation.

[wes.brook]

My £0.02.

Set-ups are key here. If you are using the Inferno sets, chances are they have a Locked Diff. For n00bs such as I, this is very difficult to drive. I've started driving with an LSD and am caning my old PB's, although no-where near WR's yet.

If you need more grip, use an LSD :-)

[Chaos]

And the thing is, it just came to me - I wasn't even trying to set fast laps - just wanted to stay clean and win the race.

I know this very well.. usually the harder you try, the more upset you get and the times just don't come... the next day a race at the track, and viola, not knowing how, the time is there...

A simmilar thing is when setting pb's. After some time I get to some time, two weeks pass, still the same time and then on one occasion i drive a better time and continue driving such times, not knowing where the error was in the past 2 weeks... :scratchch

and yes, i guess i'm one of those little green men... but we come in peace! :tilt:

[Tweaker]

NO cheats in LFS, just fast drivers that have been playing for a long time ;) (We call them 'aliens' because they don't drive like humans)

All I gotta say :up:

[mrodgers]

NO cheats in LFS, just fast drivers that have been playing for a long time ;) (We call them 'aliens' because they don't drive like humans)

All I gotta say :up:
And this coming from someone I would call one of those so called "aliens", hehe. Don't deny it Tweak, I saw you jump onto the qualifying server with 10 minutes left and beat the WR in like 6 laps :D . I can't remember where that was, but everyone was worried about where you were and if you were going to miss the qualifying.

[Flotch]

My £0.02.

Set-ups are key here. If you are using the Inferno sets, chances are they have a Locked Diff. For n00bs such as I, this is very difficult to drive. I've started driving with an LSD and am caning my old PB's, although no-where near WR's yet.

If you need more grip, use an LSD :-)
if you are able to set a LSD on the UF1000, tell me ;)

[wes.brook]

if you are able to set a LSD on the UF1000, tell me ;)

I was speaking in general terms ;)

HTH.

[axus]

I'm about .5s from the FE Green WR... I made my own set for the combo. It took me about 2hr to get there, including the setup adjustments. Once you get fast on one combo, the rest tend to come easy. Blackwood with the GTi is where I learned, lap after lap after lap... probably 5000laps in S1 demo on that combo. Along came S2 and I was pretty quick everywhere I tried. Seriously, it is all about corner exit speed. You might want to check some of the links in this thread (http://lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=66338#post66338) out.

[Tweaker]

Seriously, it is all about corner exit speed.
That most likely cannot be so true... it is everything you do and how you do it that gets you faster laps or world records. Corner exit speed is like only a percentage of what makes a fast lap happen. Corner entry, proper lines, braking points, consistency, car setup, and so on.... all make up for being an 'alien'.

If you tell someone it is mostly about corner exit speed, that is a really bad suggestion in my opinion. You will most likely find people trying to take the turn wide on entry and gunning it on exit. Some people believe they can be fast by getting just a quick exit speed, and just push it far too much that they go off the track or overall they will have really irregular racing lines -- which causes mistakes. With a lot of fast laps, you gain a lot of time with proper entry that is quick and in control. This is racing techniques 101, I'm sure you've read about proper racing lines :).

There are loads of other attributes and techniques to doing a fast lap, and so many that you couldn't list them. It all boils down to visual perception/interpretation, learning ability (of car and track), memory (track), and consistency. You can improve those areas very easily if you don't think about people using cheats or some other reason about why you are slower.

Any newbie cannot master this game in an instant and get incredible times, you have to have the experience and time well spent with LFS to obtain fast times. Also patience and never wanting to give up... you give up... you never learn.

Because if you think you can get the fastest times right away, that is like saying a beginner archer can shoot the apple off the top of your head 10 out of 10 times :)

[RMachucaA]

yeah, tweak is uncatchable, i can vouch for that, i spent days trying to outqualify him with no avail, sucks when he's in your league, no hope :P.

Seriously though, its amazing how much small differences in corner entry\exit can affect the overall lap time, specially when theres a combo of corners that have to be taken precisely or you'll loose at least 1-2 seconds right off the bat (the s's in kyoto long going up the hill for example)

[B2B@300]

Good post :)

And thats what gives LFS such longevity and makes it so worthwhile :D

[Racer Y]

Hi. Uh... I'm not really fast - yet :) But one thing that was pointed out to me recently by GenerAL was How I was Approaching corners. He said to try and let the engine do alot of the braking instead of the brake pedal. and finding the exact time to drop the gear is the key. Too soon and you'll eat it and too late, you'll lose power. Also, I've learned that braking for corners is kinda like cooking pasta - when you think it's almost ready, it IS ready. Well when you think that it's almost time to brake, then maybe you should brake then.
I imagine those people you saw hitting the corners faster than you were probably braking a bit earlier than what you were and relying on downshifting to keep the power while slowing down.

Off topic sort of...
Will a locked Diff really increase overall performance a whole lot, or is it good for only certain track/car combos?

[Tweaker]

@ Racer Y: Hehe I like the pasta analogy.

**Locked Diff is just generally more challenging because both wheels will spin at the same rate and you have the power divided evenly to both wheels. Whereas a slip differential will help your car's stability overall while accelerating, especially in corners. (Think of slip diffs as some mechanical Cadillac traction control). Locked diffs are kind of misused in LFS atm, they shouldn't have 'that' much of an advantage, but generally Locked diffs are faster for fast tracks with big turns. Because you don't want a slip differential to start winding up while in a fast corner, you lose some speed. It is complicated, but yes it can depend on the track/car combo, but even on some combos, you can choose various differential configurations to your liking, because all of them give little or huge differences in driving feel/performance, but still give generally the same laptimes. It also affects tire wear.

Basically just try a car (like the Gti) with Open Diff, and then Locked Diff, and you can see the differences in performance. The slip differentials are kind of in between, but something like the Clutch Pack is very nice to use, because you can set the locking power for when you are Accelerating(Gas), and Coasting(Brake).

[Gentlefoot]

LSDs work by diverting power away from the wheel with least resistance. With an open diff, if the inner wheel loses traction, all the power is diverted to that wheel. This doesn't help traction obviously.

Cars have diffs because the outer wheel has to travel a further distance than the inner wheel. So if there was no diff, or a locking diff, this will make the car hard to turn, particularly in tight corners. They can also cause understeer. I have noticed this with some locking diff setups in the game.

[Renku]

Don't know about UF1 on FE Green, but I've seen a LX6 passing the chicane with the lowest speed of 156km/h. And if I understood correctly, there were room for improvement. I do understand the technique that was used to get this high speed through the chicane, but I can't do that myself. 1st sector is the hardest for me, sadly, FE Black is also affected with this chicane..

[RMachucaA]

Yeah, that chicane is famous, we have to wait until the damage gets improved so rough driving over the chicane will cause things to get damaged.

[Hallen]

yeah, tweak is uncatchable, i can vouch for that, i spent days trying to outqualify him with no avail, sucks when he's in your league, no hope :P.

Jeez, look who's talking...:smileypul
I am nowhere near either of you and I have a lot of experience. Never, ever race Tweak on FE Black in the LX6 :pillepall :D
We need to get some LRF races going with you guys on the NASSA server:scratchch

[Fordman]

Never, ever race Tweak on FE Black in the LX6 :pillepall :D


Can't really say I have raced tweak. I have been on the same track at the same time, but can not really say I was racing him :D

[tristancliffe]

I raced him once or twice. But only as far as the first corner... :(

[B2B@300]

Can't really say I have raced tweak. I have been on the same track at the same time, but can not really say I was racing him :D

:rofl: true enough I think Tweaks avtar is enough of a clue :D

[micha1980de]

talking about corners, i've come to the conclusion that it comes down to straighten out every corner.
that's done by wide-in, hit the apex, wide-out.
the small differences that give you extra controlled speed during these corners are mostly unknown to me yet.

[Hyperactive]

Those fast aliens will have serious problems when engine and suspension damage gets to "visible" level. Driving over 20cm high curb at 200kph without any suspension damage is something I'd like to do in real life :)

...Or at least to get to that 200kph :D

[Vykos69]

Those fast aliens will have serious problems when engine and suspension damage gets to "visible" level. Driving over 20cm high curb at 200kph without any suspension damage is something I'd like to do in real life :)

...Or at least to get to that 200kph :D
They wont, cause they will attach to the new physics maybe even faster than you...

[AndroidXP]

Yeah, I remember similar things being said about tyre wear and heat. Sucked when everyone found out that *aliens* are fast because they're smooth, and therefore have even longer lasting tyres :razz:

[Z06Vette]

Ok this is all well and good but.......I race Oval Junkies a bit and have been "riding along" and see speeds to 200 MPH? Many drivers get into the 190's?? Shhesh! I do ok, some 3rds, 4ths and 5ths and turn some 5:02, 8 lap races and a 36.3 36.5 lap or two but nothing like some. I have seen some 35.6+ laps? How they do that is beyond me.... I ride along and practice with gost car. I have some really good sets. Been around the net since P-133's so I am always a bit skeptical. Been beaten by every trainer and hack out there in 50 different games :)

LOL! I'll keep trying. Yes I do use the nose-up bug or I'd be last every time :(

When in Rome, do as...........

Vette

[Tweaker]

200 mph is very hard to reach at the oval.

If you have the oval setup that is commonly passed around there at the Oval Junkies server, you might notice it can reach pretty high speeds (high 180's). When drafting it gets in the 190's. But you have to have a proper draft -- and a LONG draft to get to 200. Also, the usual setup passed around there has 2 degrees of wing angle on the front and rear if I remember correctly. It doesn't affect speed that much, but my guess is, they set the angle like that because when drafting and passing into a corner, you need some turning ability (or else you get in some accidents). If you put the wing angle at 0 for front and rear (which I do), you can reach 200 mph, but you gotta be very cautious and aware when passing, because you won't steer as well as before. I've reached 201 I think, but it is hard to get, you gotta get some big draft from 1 car, or setup a draft properly with 2 cars in front.

If these people are going a steady 200 mph for a long amount of time, then something new has evolved. Maybe someone made a new setup, I don't know. But I haven't seen or heard of that yet :).

[Shotglass]

Also, the usual setup passed around there has 2 degrees of wing angle on the front and rear if I remember correctly. It doesn't affect speed that much, but my guess is, they set the angle like that because when drafting and passing into a corner, you need some turning ability (or else you get in some accidents).

hmmm im pretty sure those 2 degrees help with exploiting the high nose bug

[Tweaker]

I had a much faster speed with reducing the degrees though, The only bad thing was steering, and you had to let off when going for a shotgun pass into a corner. Which is fine for me, because I prefer skill on the oval with throttle usage, rather than using full throttle all the time and having 2 degrees added.

I don't see how having 2 degrees front and rear would help you be faster with the nose exploit, it only makes you slower and turn easier/safer for runing through turns side-by-side. Because that setup seems to only be passed around in the server for racing purposes so people are safe passing. Normally with the 2 degrees, you can hardly reach 200mph ever, and when passing people, they can still stay in your slipstream. But when I turned it down to 0, I was haulin' passed them with ease, and they couldn't stay in the draft :) It is risky to use 0, but if you can manage it, go for it.

[Z06Vette]

LOL! Nope..I saw 200 once and 201 once off a big draft just as you say. I see low 190's to 196 fairly often. The reason I snicker is I THINK I was riding with YOU :thumb: Thanks for the most excellent explanation.
Regards Sir,
Vette

quote=Tweaker]200 mph is very hard to reach at the oval.

If you have the oval setup that is commonly passed around there at the Oval Junkies server, you might notice it can reach pretty high speeds (high 180's). When drafting it gets in the 190's. But you have to have a proper draft -- and a LONG draft to get to 200. Also, the usual setup passed around there has 2 degrees of wing angle on the front and rear if I remember correctly. It doesn't affect speed that much, but my guess is, they set the angle like that because when drafting and passing into a corner, you need some turning ability (or else you get in some accidents). If you put the wing angle at 0 for front and rear (which I do), you can reach 200 mph, but you gotta be very cautious and aware when passing, because you won't steer as well as before. I've reached 201 I think, but it is hard to get, you gotta get some big draft from 1 car, or setup a draft properly with 2 cars in front.

If these people are going a steady 200 mph for a long amount of time, then something new has evolved. Maybe someone made a new setup, I don't know. But I haven't seen or heard of that yet :).[/quote]

[Racer Y]

200 mph is hard to get? LOL & thought it was just me... I did it once. I've hit 198 a few times and 196 a few more, but for the most part I seem to get stuck mid field with no one to draft with :( so i'd be lucky to get a 186.
(LOL that's just plain murder in California)
Most of the times I spent on oval servers though was at 0mph, due to multiple restarts. Plus I like to use the "right turn" feature my wheel has. so I just don't really mess with it. :shrug:

As far as the oval goes I bet it would really be fun in the LRF cars. I don't think you could "floor it and forget it" with those cars.

[Jakg]

200 mph is hard to get? LOL & thought it was just me... I did it once. I've hit 198 a few times and 196 a few more, but for the most part I seem to get stuck mid field with no one to draft with :( so i'd be lucky to get a 186.
(LOL that's just plain murder in California)
Most of the times I spent on oval servers though was at 0mph, due to multiple restarts. Plus I like to use the "right turn" feature my wheel has. so I just don't really mess with it. :shrug:

As far as the oval goes I bet it would really be fun in the LRF cars. I don't think you could "floor it and forget it" with those cars.the problem is, that you can onl go upwards of 186 mph indraft, and when your in a draft you could always ram the car infornt, but on the last corner ive aproached at 206 by slingshotting past 2 peopleOk this is all well and good but.......I race Oval Junkies a bit and have been "riding along" and see speeds to 200 MPH? Many drivers get into the 190's?? Shhesh! I do ok, some 3rds, 4ths and 5ths and turn some 5:02, 8 lap races and a 36.3 36.5 lap or two but nothing like some. I have seen some 35.6+ laps? How they do that is beyond me.... I ride along and practice with gost car. I have some really good sets. Been around the net since P-133's so I am always a bit skeptical. Been beaten by every trainer and hack out there in 50 different games
LOL! I'll keep trying. Yes I do use the nose-up bug or I'd be last every time
When in Rome, do as...........
Vette35's are really only possible with bumpdrafting, or drafting al ong line of carsIf these people are going a steady 200 mph for a long amount of time, then something new has evolved. Maybe someone made a new setup, I don't know. But I haven't seen or heard of that yet .nope, purely in drafts, anyway, even if you try and take a corner at 186 mph in draft you fly off!
I had a much faster speed with reducing the degrees though, The only bad thing was steering, and you had to let off when going for a shotgun pass into a corner. Which is fine for me, because I prefer skill on the oval with throttle usage, rather than using full throttle all the time and having 2 degrees added.
I don't see how having 2 degrees front and rear would help you be faster with the nose exploit, it only makes you slower and turn easier/safer for runing through turns side-by-side. Because that setup seems to only be passed around in the server for racing purposes so people are safe passing. Normally with the 2 degrees, you can hardly reach 200mph ever, and when passing people, they can still stay in your slipstream. But when I turned it down to 0, I was haulin' passed them with ease, and they couldn't stay in the draft It is risky to use 0, but if you can manage it, go for it.i also turned the wing angle downa and it hasnt really had any noticable affect

[Funnybear]

With double car drafts (you getting a draft from a car thats getting a draft) you can get pretty meaty top end speeds. But you have to be uber careful in your driving. Monster skills are needed to maintain a three car drafting technique. I run the oval (when I play it, which ain't often) it's with no wing, nose high obviously. I can get mid 1.35's with a draft partner. Again it's all about technique and setup. you gotta learn your lines and find a setup that suits you. Learn to adapt your setup as well, try making one from scratch to get to know the basics, then when you have taken a WR set or an aliens fast set you can adapt it to your own driving style and/or take things from it that you had never thought of.

I have noticed that sometimes the sets are counter intuitive to get the really fast times out of. I assume this is just a few physics glitches like the nose high bug for instance. From personal experiance and learning about setups I can only get my setups to a reasonable time using a logical methodology, by looking at the WR sets I can glean some unthought of attribute to the set up that might be track specific or a certain idiosycracie of a car.

But I have come to the opion that I am never gunna get a WR or even close. I do not have the control method or teh time to put in that kind of practice, what I have done is got myself reasonable competative so that I can have some good races with the fast guys. I am not easy to pass and can still bring in a few PB's when I'm really conentrating . .

[Belain]

interesting your discussion here.....lol
im part of the fm team and drivin very much on the oval (ingame name Orgi69)
i did a new pb yesterday with failure it was a 34.69 fails pb is i think 34.50 and the world record by the eagles is 34.37 ;)
my best speed was i dont know....yesterday i did a 210mp/h

fail bumpdrafted plaztikman around the track and i was sitting behind them waitin and on start finish i overtook them with 210 lol was ****in awesome but only a high 34 time...

aldi already did a 217Mp/h on the oval what is not realy a problem to reach...u just need good bumpers in the front or in your "ass" ;)


btw.. even with only 2 man draft without bumping u can get into 34 if u are realy good..and with 3man draft (without bumping) its also possible and faster
but bumpdrafting pwnz :)

who said its impossible to get draft in corners with 186 coz then u fly of??
lol is all i can say...
ok guys watch this replay of the worldrecord draftlap
http://www.thenz.org/eagle/phpBB2/download.php?id=58&sid=9dcb5e732fc7abb2c3fe5e811502be1a

[Vykos69]

Belain, can you turn right? :P

[Belain]

do u mean because the oval only goes to the left? ;)
u have to steer to the right on the oval ;) to get wide in corners e.g. or afer a pit stop lol
but yes we fm guys have our own Formula Cup where we race road tracks too e.g. with the fox....next race on sunday on as historic with fo8 and then the cups final race a i dont know...300lap oval i think ;)
and then there is the eagle's f1 (mecanik) league...fragmaster fragtastic full force fun events..........yes we can turn right :) *sometimes*

[Nobo]

Yeah we can turn right, but only when we drive the Oval Reverse ;)

[Crazy Harry]

Yeah we can turn right, but only when we drive the Oval Reverse ;)
ROFL, true, true!! I can turn right, too. But most of the time i do on the mother in GTL...

BTW. I play with the german layout of LFS, so I havn´t mph.

Some fast speed and time without bumpdrafting:

http://img141.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc156&image=bebcc_336.jpg

http://img134.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc249&image=498c7_sf.jpg