Suggestion:Players DEATH & Injuries.

[bez_bashni]

It would be great to have a switchable option of turning on realistic players injuries after the collision.(turned on in the training) We know how many G we have on players body during collision - we can compare it to the Fia stats on 4 point belt safety stats and report it as "Broken chest" or "players death"....After your death your...have to restart the race.

The Idea - i am using LFS as a sim - to get some scillls in real life (Sometemes I race my Evo8) - and it will be useful not to relax and always remember that mistakes in the coners are not only "funny flying cars".

[Eldanor]

LOL, give LFS some Blood & Gore :) The bad thing about your idea is that it needs a lot of work to be realistic. Yo have to make a very detailed driver, and calculate were you hit and what consecuences it has... I think the todo list is big enough, but cool idea :)

[AndroidXP]

I think it would be enough to take a certain G value as limit, and if you ever cross it that means you're "out of race".

I wouldn't take random "you have hurt this and that" messages, because knowing Scawen that would result in a accurate and highly complex ragdollesque damage calculation... which is actually completely irrelevant to racing.

[micha1980de]

irrelevant??

hum, want to see you trying to go on after a broken thumb for example after someone made you hit a wall and the steering wheel spinned your thumb with it...

see unofficial crashcar race tips...

[nikimere]

would just encourage wreckers, not a good idea

[B2B@300]

I think it is a good idea because it would encourage safer and more realistic driving... but perhaps not good for demo or public servers, only for private servers and league races :) and not at the moment as we tend to fly off into space with very little help :x :D :tilt:

[al heeley]

Once proper car damage is developed, surely that will deal with the issues of having to drive with more care, I see personal injuries as irrelevant. If you hit a wall, your front wheel breaks off, it doesn't matter if you have a virtual broken leg or not, the race will be over for you.

[ajp71]

LOL guessing this was a joke. IRL (and hopefully some day in LFS) it takes a larger smash to injure the driver than it does to force a car into retiring.

[B2B@300]

Thats a good point Al :thumb:

[AndroidXP]

irrelevant??

hum, want to see you trying to go on after a broken thumb for example after someone made you hit a wall and the steering wheel spinned your thumb with it...

see unofficial crashcar race tips...
It is irrelevant if you have broken your thumb, twisted your toe or smashed in your nose. You are "out of race".

What i mean is that it would be a complete waste of CPU power to calculate exactly what happend when the result (race end) is the same.

[tristancliffe]

If the 'injury' just means you have to sit out that race, then whats the point - car damage will do that.

If the 'injury' means you have to sit out, say, a week whilst you recover (or worse, 6 months to a year), then whats the point. People would buy LFS, injure themselves, and never bother to play it ever again.

So, on both counts, I vote a strong and unflinching no.

[micha1980de]

so then the point is not to beam back to pits and return on racing after instant repair...

[Breizh]

functional rollcage

[al heeley]

irrelevant??

hum, want to see you trying to go on after a broken thumb ...
:D Are you sitting down? It's NOT real! No, honest. It's a PC sim.:D
Thats why virtual injuries are not relevant. It doesn't really hurt you. I reckon getting the car smashed up is enough when proper damage hampers mechanical stuff, like good old GPL when you damage the suspension or the toe-in, you can really feel it. You can also, if you're lucky, limp back to the pits with one wheel busted off. But your race will be over.

[P5YcHoM4N]

If this was put into the game it'd be a perfect game. I've wanted a racing game that had player damage for years, but no devs ever make it :(

[W1LLSD4D]

Err, a no from here too. Car damage - so you're out of the current race is enough...

[AndroidXP]

If the 'injury' just means you have to sit out that race, then whats the point - car damage will do that.

If the 'injury' means you have to sit out, say, a week whilst you recover (or worse, 6 months to a year), then whats the point. People would buy LFS, injure themselves, and never bother to play it ever again.

So, on both counts, I vote a strong and unflinching no.
Right now the problem is that car damage does not do that. There are often crashes with insane amounts of G forces involved, yet the car is still drivable because all those forces got absorbed by the invunerable car body. And even if we finally have a more sophisticated damage model, there could still be crash situations where the driver would've been the weak link.

Injury would of course only last for the current race - anything longer would be stupid.

[der butz]

AAAAAAAAARGH! GIMME THAT CHAINSAAW!:D
No really, it WOULD be a more realistic kind of sim with injuries, but I think at some point we have to see that this whole sim thing is NOT reality.
IMO a more realistic damage model would be enough.

Maybe a simulated walk to the pit might be enough to bully the ones who can't drive :-)


btw: some F1-racers walked away after a crash that caused like 50g or more!

[Bob Smith]

Oh finally, something sensible at last. :|

If we really must, a quick blackout from collisions above 6g or so could be a nice effect.

[sinbad]

Visions of a James Bond style, blood flowing down the screen effect.

I think this idea is quite morbid actually, it serves no purpose other than to give those that would find it amusing the chance to say "hehe look, I died from internal bleeding".

"After your death...... your have to restart the race"

lol, just to emphasise the dangers of real motorsport.


As has been said, if you get injured in a race then the accident that caused you that injury would have disabled your car to such an extent that, even if you had not been injured, you would be out of the race.
Injuries only have a potential effect on drivers' abilities to start the next race(s), but I'm sure nooone wants to simulate long term injuries and/or permanent death.

Would be funny if your driver was a character that had a potentially dangerous life away from the track whenever you weren't playing.
LFS World: "Your driver has suffered ligament damage caused by a fall whilst playing tennis, you are unable to participate in today's races. Please consult the LFS World physiotherapist."

[Hyperactive]

If you died in LFS you would have to buy a new license. Or you had only one and when you die... :D

Not sure about how related this is but as someone said earlier about ragdoll effects...When you hit something the driver could "twich" a little, like he/she does in when you turn the wheel...

But no driver damage, I see no point. More car damage :)

[P5YcHoM4N]

I just think it would be cool if you fly around a bend and hit a tree and you black out.

And then on the LFSW stats page it shows how many times you got a DNA from blacking out =D

[AndroidXP]

^ LoL. I addition to that we also need a short 'honk' when we smash the horn with our forehead. :D

[herki]

i want to have a puke-button or an auto-puke function, if you spin to much :sick: :drunk:

seriously: death or injury would be fine for me, it would could stop some reckless drivers. maybe as an option, so we can still have silly races :pillepall

[MadCatX]

Sorry, but I don't like this idea.... LFS is about racing, not about complex simulation of human body. I admit that some injuries and deaths can occur in races, but why the world we need this in games? What will be next? Racing ban for 4 weeks with message YOU HAVE BROKEN LEG, WAIT FOR RECOVERY? No, I think the best way how to realize "race-KO" is complete damage model of car. Human body can take up to 60G for a short time(0.1 sec). When there'll be a 60G force pressing the car, I am sure it won't be able to continue racing no matter if the driver is dead ir alive....

[Racer Y]

lol I don't know about modeled Physical damage, but a couple a weeks ago,
I nailed a wall in game and the wheel jerked my arm just right and threw my left shoulder outta whack for a couple of days IRL. the other day I screwed my finger up because of the wheel spinning. Note these are real life injuries
as the result of playing LFS. (should I consult an attorney about this?)
Nothing serious (well the shoulder hurt pretty good) but enough to whine about when discussing physical damage. I don't see where I need modeled damage when I get the real thing :)

I dunno if this is ontopic or not, but as far as interior effects from accidents,
what about airbag deployment in the road cars?

I like Bob's idea for blackouts. I played a flight game years ago that did that
when you hit too many Gs in tight turns.

[nikimere]

why do we even need a driver? we, sitting at our desks are the drivers.

[B2B@300]

lol I don't know about modeled Physical damage, but a couple a weeks ago, I nailed a wall in game and the wheel jerked my arm just right and threw my left shoulder outta whack for a couple of days IRL. the other day I screwed my finger up because of the wheel spinning. Note these are real life injuries as the result of playing LFS.

ROFL how about we have not just FFB but also IFB? If you have a head on a hammer springs out and wacks you on the forehead :D

[nikimere]

I dunno if this is ontopic or not, but as far as interior effects from accidents,
what about airbag deployment in the road cars?
IRL your not allowed race with a car that has airbags. what happens if you bump someone? airbag goes off.... not a great idea!

[Horci]

I think its good, to happen something with the driver.
BUT, these just simply by the G force. (as I know people die if about 50G effects his body) After that, you couldnt control your car. If you pressed the throttle before the crash, the car will be accelerate after your death ... And so on :)
Dont need broken, legs, and calculations with the body parts ...

Or, just simply after the crash the driver could be senseless for a gew seconds (for example you can see everything in red), or in really fast curves, with the V8, FOX and GTRs, the driver could loose his perspective (the picture's border could be blurred)
And of course i think not the same driving with 50km/h as making an oval race with 300km/h. There could be few effects, to feel that, the driver is just a human :D

[P5YcHoM4N]

I like Bob's idea for blackouts. I played a flight game years ago that did that
when you hit too many Gs in tight turns.

That reminds me of some WWII game (russian v germany, forget it's name) where you get black out and red out, but also if your plane is on fire and you don't eject or dive to put it out in time you burn to death. That should be added =D

[nikimere]

As I said earlier I think some Ragdoll Physics wouldn't do any harm provided the driver is strapped in by belts etc. and doesn't come flying out of the screen like in the game Flatout.
wouldn't do any harm? do you have any idea how complex ragdoll physics are?

[Horci]

That reminds me of some WWII game (russian v germany, forget it's name) where you get black out and red out, but also if your plane is on fire and you don't eject or dive to put it out in time you burn to death. That should be added =D

IL 2 ...

My suggestions is based on this game :D

[B2B@300]

yeah a few flight sims emulate blackouts and redouts :) quite cool really because in sims we obviosly go alot futher over the line than we would in real life :razz: I often think an adrenalin meter would be good LOL it would be telling you "you stupid fool in RL you'd be shittin your pants right about now" :D

[Greboth]

As I said earlier I think some Ragdoll Physics wouldn't do any harm provided the driver is strapped in by belts etc. and doesn't come flying out of the screen like in the game Flatout.

I agree like if u hit the wall or something the driver wouldnt move as he/she is strapped in but arms / legs would as they are not straped in so would b good
for example if hit wall side on hard enugh on oval for example the drivers outside hands lets go of wheel for a second or two and maybe u wuldnt hav as much control of car as normal or summit
This tho wuld take alot of work for the devs i fear
Sound idea tho :)

[herki]

That reminds me of some WWII game (russian v germany, forget it's name) where you get black out and red out, but also if your plane is on fire and you don't eject or dive to put it out in time you burn to death. That should be added =D

F14 Tomcat did this too... god, this game is really old, from times when Soundblaster was really new :smileypul

[mrodgers]

Most flight sims do that ^^. I even blackout in Microsoft Flight Simulator, though it's when I'm using a military aircraft. I don't think I can pull enough G's in th Cessna.

[keiran]

I vote no for this and also this could cause problems with age restrictions depending on how it worked.

Keiran

[GoodspeedF1R]

AAAAAAAAARGH! GIMME THAT CHAINSAAW!:D
No really, it WOULD be a more realistic kind of sim with injuries, but I think at some point we have to see that this whole sim thing is NOT reality.
IMO a more realistic damage model would be enough.

Maybe a simulated walk to the pit might be enough to bully the ones who can't drive :-)


btw: some F1-racers walked away after a crash that caused like 50g or more!walk to the pit or something.. Sounds a wonderful idea :thumb:

[bez_bashni]

In fact i think that LFS is more than the game - i'm sure its setups and lap records will be sold to VAG or Mitsubishi finally for good money. I used autocross editor to emulate real rallisprint tracks - it works and significantly helps to prepare to real race. If the injuruy simulation together with more realistic damge will be done it is possible new concept of rollcages or other car safety will be found. BUT at a current stage i only wanted a simplified drivers death emulator based on g calculation at the drivers position - to train correct instincts. Now it is not important if you hit tires or brick wall-the result is damaged but usually drivable car. But in a reality if you'll hit a wall above 60 km/h in golf style car you are in 90% dead. I think it will be good for children ,who are not drivers yet ,but start playing LFS ,to clearly understand it. And for us, who drivereal cars, to have instinct if we are off the track to save our virual life. BTW - the death stats can help track architectors -if u're planning to bild a real track($$$$$$$$$ projects) u can make its model in lfs and see the most dangerous places...Anyway it can be easylly done -just one line in the code- smth like if ( G_DRIVER>GMAX) message "U are dead".A short info message will be enough. Even without any effects and gameplay action.

[Kajojek(PL)]

I was thinking about this too.

[Hankstar]

No.

Pointlessly difficult to implement (esp. ragdoll physics) and I reckon the novelty and initial coolness of being able to kill your driver would wear off very quickly - and this is assuming the OP was serious to begin with :)

I'll say "nuh" to pretty much anything that doesn't directly improve gameplay. Just because something may be possible in the realm of gaming it doesn't mean it's good for the game. I guess I'm old fashioned when it comes to racing games - just make the racing fun, the physics dynamic and everything else is secondary! No unnecessary coding - it just makes the download bigger :)

Ragdoll physics are best employed in shooting games - who hasn't laughed with maniacal glee as they've blown a hapless Max Payne 2 enemy (or innocent bystander) into the air with a grenade and then pinned his flapping corpse to the wall with an assault rifle? Muaahaha! :D

[Horci]

Who want ragdolls? :)
Just a simple G meter. 50G, heavy injury, 75 death ...

I think a primitive G meter az already in the game

[Roadie]

Xpand Rally has this, If you hit something hard enough, you can break your legs or arms or other body parts, or knock your driver out, or totally kill him.

I don't like it because it takes the fun out of totally trashing your car.

[P5YcHoM4N]

Xpand Rally has this, If you hit something hard enough, you can break your legs or arms or other body parts, or knock your driver out, or totally kill him.

I don't like it because it takes the fun out of totally trashing your car.
Really? Damn, how did I not know about this. I so have to get that game now :P

[tristancliffe]

blah blah blah talk talk talk... Max Payne 2... blah blah blah talk talk talk :D

BULLET TIME!!!

Press a button on your wheel as you dive for the inside line and watch as the time on the server slows down (for everyone else too), allowing you to perfect the pass and have enough time to glance at your opponent and make rude gestures.

Would be bizarre for the other drivers (especially those in a tricky part of the lap), but they can extract their revenge by using their bullet time. Everyone has 3 seconds of bullet time per lap. Sorted. Boyakasha (or however you spell that chavvy word).

[Hankstar]

Sorry if I was boring you TC :x

Blah :shrug:
H

[Hyperactive]

This can be taken into a whole new level. You know, sometimes on some servers you see some drivers (like me today, for example) with horrible driving that makes you sh*t in your pants. Well, you get the idea...:x

4:40AM, probably better to go sleeping before "they" put a straitjacket on me. Again...

I still can't find a good reason to have death/dying/body damage in LFS. Only thing that comes to my mind is that wreckers would probably get called murderes too...

[h00ch]

How about we just leave the game as it is and for those that want a more realistic driver damage experience, you can just jump out the window of your 2nd story bedroom after you crash or just get your dog pissed off and attack you? :razz:

[Boris Lozac]

In fact i think that LFS is more than the game - i'm sure its setups and lap records will be sold to VAG or Mitsubishi finally for good money. I used autocross editor to emulate real rallisprint tracks - it works and significantly helps to prepare to real race. If the injuruy simulation together with more realistic damge will be done it is possible new concept of rollcages or other car safety will be found. BUT at a current stage i only wanted a simplified drivers death emulator based on g calculation at the drivers position - to train correct instincts. Now it is not important if you hit tires or brick wall-the result is damaged but usually drivable car. But in a reality if you'll hit a wall above 60 km/h in golf style car you are in 90% dead. I think it will be good for children ,who are not drivers yet ,but start playing LFS ,to clearly understand it. And for us, who drivereal cars, to have instinct if we are off the track to save our virual life. BTW - the death stats can help track architectors -if u're planning to bild a real track($$$$$$$$$ projects) u can make its model in lfs and see the most dangerous places...Anyway it can be easylly done -just one line in the code- smth like if ( G_DRIVER>GMAX) message "U are dead".A short info message will be enough. Even without any effects and gameplay action.

This is actually a good idea.. I was going to post a HUGE NO to this thread, but then, your post kinda makes sense..
If you can "die" in other types of games, why not here... It would bring even more adrenaline to the game(there is plenty of it now).. I feel really scared when i drive on the limit in LFS, and RBR.. BUT that's good, that's how you feel in real life.. It's all about adrenalin, and testing your limits..
It would scare the shi$ out of people, but it would teach you what could happen in real life..
I don't consider LFS your ordinary game.. i like the idea, of more real the better.. So, like, no ESC to the pits, your car stay rolled on the track, for example..

[Bob Smith]

Everyone has 3 seconds of bullet time per lap. Sorted.
So is that 3 bullet-time seconds or 3 real world seconds worth of bullet-time?

[B2B@300]

I feel really scared when i drive on the limit in LFS, and RBR.. BUT that's good, that's how you feel in real life.. It's all about adrenalin, and testing your limits..

I can say one thing with 110% certainty - when I get to about 60 -70% of what I do in LFS in real life I'm already shittin my pants not too mention my wife who's putting imprints in the dashboard from clinging on in fright :D (this is especially true on the marble like gravel roads we have here in Aus :razz: ) and I have a 5km stretch of it to get to my front door :D so I aint gettin anywhere near the adrenalin rush that I get in RL from LFS :razz:
If you've ever rolled a car in RL I'm sure you wouldn't say you get the same feeling in LFS from the same situation :razz: In LFS I drive like an 18 year old again :D i.e. I feel invisible rofl in RL I know better and I have the scares to proove it :Looking_a :razz: :D

[tristancliffe]

No Hankster, just wanted to emphasise the Max Payne bit, with a touch of comedy. Obviously it didn't work.

Erm, Bob, I don't know. 3 seconds of bullet time. Does it matter? :p

[bez_bashni]

I decided to finish this dicussion by devoting some time to the addon - and i made it!!!

I made it as a plugin for GMETER
http://www.dpostill.karoo.net/downloads/Gmeter099c.zip
(my best regards to Fonnybone & Peeps1980)

1. Instal GMETER (if u dont have it)
2. Unzip attached file to /gmeter/plugins/ and enjoy.

If G>50 it displayes chat message U ARE DEAD and G value..
It uses the correct calculated G .U can adjust timer according to your system-the G is average value on the timer's interval..

[B2B@300]

Does that work for S2Q? I thought gmeter didn't work on the current version :shrug: or have you fixed that as well :D either way great stuff :thumb:

[DodgeRacer]

that seems nice and cold


When you reach your G limit LFS should blue screen, that is the most painfull death of all

[bez_bashni]

Gmeter works normaly.
patch updated

[Kegetys]

I think injuries would be nice for cup/league races, where a serious injury could mean you cannot race in the next one or two races.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

I think if you forget to put your virtual seatbelt / harness on before racing, you should be able to fly out any of the windows and get run over by the other cars and they should be able to have arms stuck in their rims and the blood should make the track slippery. Nothing like a car against the rail with a torso sticking out of the windshield.....

Seriously though - some simple "consequences" would be kind of cool... I'm just waitng eagerly for the damage model to be honed for the cars.

And I've never laughed so hard at any thread in my life, some of these responses had my in stiches.... That may indicate something about my sense of humour...

[Hyperactive]

I think injuries would be nice for cup/league races, where a serious injury could mean you cannot race in the next one or two races.

The current "crash physics" don't make it any good. I know lag is dangerous but little bad luck and you're traveling at 600kph towards the next wall...

Maybe just add people to the track to drive over :)

[wheel4hummer]

We need to simulate body temerature, fluid intake, bladder size, and urination.

[ATHome]

We need to simulate body temerature, fluid intake, bladder size, and urination.

But then there should also illness simulated. Like fever and something like this.

It'll ruin your concentration and make the driver react slower

[jtr99]

I wouldn't mind something simple based on G-forces. As someone argued above, it could be quite informative to notice which corner people keep getting killed on.

But what I really want is to sit petulantly on the back of a moped while a marshall gives me a lift back to the pits and the crowd jeers at me. Oh yeah -- realism.

[B2B@300]

Hey had another thought, here in Aus they have crosses on the side of the raod where ever a fatality occured and at places were there has been a few deaths they have a sign saying it's a black spot :D I'm pretty sure t1 on most tracks would end up having that sign :razz:

[Hyperactive]

Sorry, couldn't resist :D

[AndroidXP]

:rofl:

[joeynuggetz]

I still vote for a seat-belt option. And if you dont use it, the ragdoll physics would kick in and you would go flying through the windshield. Kinda like this little app:

http://jet.ro/dismount/rekkaturvat/download.cgi?zip

[wheel4hummer]

I still vote for a seat-belt option. And if you dont use it, the ragdoll physics would kick in and you would go flying through the windshield. Kinda like this little app:

http://jet.ro/dismount/rekkaturvat/download.cgi?zip

THAT GAME IS KICKASS