Hotlap did not pass HLVC check

[Dizzydarryn]

Hi guys,

I uploaded a hot lap last night, and got this email this morning...

" you have recently uploaded a hotlap at www.lfsworld.net (http://www.lfsworld.net), driven at SO6 with the XFG.

Unfortunately our additional hotlap checker did not validate your hotlap. As such, it has been removed from the LFS World hotlap charts.

The reason for the invalidity was: your hotlap did not pass the current HLVC check."


Not sure if anyone has received this before. As far as i remember, the lap was valid while i was driving it, and hence my ability to upload it...

Can anyone shed any light, so that the same thing doesnt happen again?

Thanks

[Töki (HUN)]

You may have touched the wall.

[Dizzydarryn]

but doesnt that pick up in the ingame HLVC?

[J@tko]

The in-game and hotlap checking (external) HLVC checkers are different.

The LFSW one (the external one) is better than the ingame one. (Does that make sense? :tilt:)

[Ian.H]

The in-game and hotlap checking (external) HLVC checkers are different.

The LFSW one (the external one) is better than the ingame one. (Does that make sense? :tilt:)

Certainly doesn't make _logical_ sense :shrug: but lets face it, any kind of contact detection in LFS is hardly decent.. but that doesn't matter.. because we can now have the UI in multiple variations of [racist language removed]! \o/ That's what's _really_ important :really:



Regards,

Ian

[Jakg]

The HLVC thingy was tightened in the latest LFS test patch. So the LFSW one is the same as the one in the latest test-patch, but tighter than the one in the standard Y Patch.

Ian - Stop being a "[..]".

[Victor]

Certainly doesn't make _logical_ sense :shrug: but lets face it, any kind of contact detection in LFS is hardly decent.. but that doesn't matter.. because we can now have the UI in multiple variations of [..]! \o/ That's what's _really_ important :really:



Regards,

Ian

I'm getting a bit bored of your continual cynical replies that serve no purpose other than to vent your own frustration with either LFS or something else we don't know about.
All you do is nag - nothing ever seems good enough for you. I wouldn't mind if you'd cut back on the nagging.

[Ian.H]

I'm getting a bit bored of your continual cynical replies that serve no purpose other than to vent your own frustration with either LFS or something else we don't know about.


Ironically, I'm a bit bored of the process (progress would be an incorrect term to use) of development of commercial software I purchased. It seems the "problem" is, everyone else sees LFS like someone handing over the keys to their new car for a friend to have a quick drive around the block in.. it's not, it's a commercial product that isn't moving forwards in any respectable fashion, and hasn't done for the past couple of years.


All you do is nag - nothing ever seems good enough for you. I wouldn't mind if you'd cut back on the nagging.


On the contrary, some things are very good.. but LFS (the game side of things) has become so stagnant over the past 18 months, it's nothing short of a bad joke. Bugs that have been in the game since day 1 _still_ not addressed, features that are barely usable (or just work in broken ways), arcade style crap being added patch by patch (yet I thought this was a sim? I guess I was wrong) yet Scawen pissballs about with multiple martian languages when there are _far_ more important things to do.

I wouldn't mind if LFS cut back on the pissballing about with pointless crap.

[Victor]

and how many times do you think you have to tell us that before you think we have heard it?

[Ian.H]

and how many times do you think you have to tell us that before you think we have heard it?

Well, judging by lack of substantial progress over the past 2 years, it would seem it's not been said enough.

[NotAnIllusion]

"Have a break, have a KitKat."

[Victor]

Well, judging by your reply, I'm gonna conclude you're just being childish and will ignore you. Cheap shot answers don't do it for me.

[mcintyrej]

I certainly admire your internet bravery Ian, standing up to one of our main men like that.

However, I see your point and take it very well. The message you gave about the development being slow but going in the wrong direction, away from huge old issues and just adding strange new content - thats a true message that I know many people here agree with silently.

Lets hope the Developers can take it in a constructive way, rather than kicking your pissballs.

[Ian.H]

Well, judging by your reply, I'm gonna conclude you're just being childish and will ignore you. Cheap shot answers don't do it for me.


Fine.. back away. That was no cheap shot (you have no idea what a cheap shot is if you think that was one), but as the common phrase goes: the truth hurts.

[Byku]

What kind of arcade styled crap You are talking about? O.o
Btw. I dont mind slow progress, at least there is one ^^. And I adore the community with developers on the top :D.

We bought beta... when we bought it nobody said that there will be x patches every x months.. and we agreed upon that. All we know that there will be S1, S2, S3. Personally I believe there will be ;), I hava whole live to wait for it. If You are bored... then play something else, You can go back to LFS anytime couse once You bought it, it is Yours forever ;).

[obsolum]

...arcade style crap being added patch by patch (yet I thought this was a sim? I guess I was wrong)

...the development being slow but going in the wrong direction
I'm curious, what things are you two referring to here? I'm not going to partake in arguing about anything, I'm just curious as to what you mean. What arcade style stuff has been added recently? And what recent changes have been in the wrong direction?

[Ian.H]

[ snip ]

Lets hope the Developers can take it in a constructive way, rather than kicking your pissballs.


I'd like to hope so too. I'd sooner be spending time on the track (preferably a new one!) (back in the day, I _really_ did enjoy the racing I did in LFS).. but it seems it slowly, but surely, becoming a lost cause.

If I get my balls kicked, so be it.. wouldn't be the first time and I doubt it'd be the last :)



Regards,

Ian

[Jakg]

I think he means the Clutch Temp Bar.

And by "wrong direction" he means new languages being added that Ian doesn't use rather than features he might use, which is an incredibly arrogant thing to say.

[J@tko]

I think he means the Clutch Temp Bar.

And by "wrong direction" he means new languages being added that Ian doesn't use rather than features he might use, which is an incredibly arrogant thing to say.

Jack said about the wrong direction :shrug: (God there's so many Jacks!)

I do agree with Ian, though I think it's kinda obvious that the devs know that a significant minority here are getting very fed up with the lack of new stuff over the past year or so.

This is getting a bit OT too :(

[Byku]

I also thought so. Personaly I like the Clutch Temp Bar... at least we are changing gears in the correct way ^^. Agree with You Jakg, new languages are usefull for more people who dont know english well.

Btw. Guys... there is only one guys working on it. He's got family and stuff ;). Certainly there are going to be more tracks and cars... maybe in Z patch... and certainly in S3. There was already a lot of stuff made by davs which was not realesed(rally pack, new kind of cars as I read somewhere) and they might be working on them and at the same time working on all those minor things we get in test patches.

[Jakg]

Significant Minority? How are we significant?

LFS is NOT subscription based - it needs new people to sign up all the time for the devs to eat (almost like a Pyramid Scheme). Adding content may lure more people in, but supporting new languages was a god-send for the Korean (?) community, and probably attracted a hell of a lot more licenses.

I was getting bored of LFS, but i'm now starting to realise the "finer things", specifically things like the Baby-R, which is the first non-RWD car I would happily drive around a track on it's own and still have fun.

EDIT - I don't mean languages as in English, French or German, I mean Character Sets - all the languages except English are produced by the community, but Scawen is adding support for non-"normal" (can't think of the word - you know what I mean) character sets, i.e. Cyrillic, Arabic, Chinese etc...

[Ian.H]

What kind of arcade styled crap You are talking about? O.o


All of the F9-F12 displays (of which get added to at various patch stages.. such as clutch temp recently etc).. FPS displays on dash boards due to lack of actual working features.. big gear indicators on the dashboards of the equivalent of a £6k car (XFG).

Cars stall when idle for n seconds due to an unoptimised physics engine (I can leave my car running for hours, only stops when the fuel tank is empty).. there's more, but I haven't loaded LFS in months to go back through things.


Btw. I dont mind slow progress, at least there is one ^^. And I adore the community with developers on the top :D.


Yeah? If you think adding foreign languages is progress, when the likes of aerodynamics, engine modelling, turbo modelling are nothing but bad jokes, then good for you, you must be easily pleased.


We bought beta... when we bought it nobody said that there will be x patches every x months.. and we agreed upon that. All we know that there will be S1, S2, S3.


I bought a beta (alpha, incomplete, whatever) game over 4 years ago! Development is about as quick as m$ and vista.. and about as buggy too.

Seems everything went to pot after Scawen had kids. I've got a littlen too, just like many others in the world, yet we all manage to go to work for a living. I doubt my boss would accept a severe drop in my performance due to a family.

Personally I believe there will be ;), I hava whole live to wait for it. If You are bored... then play something else, You can go back to LFS anytime couse once You bought it, it is Yours forever ;).

I did that. I spent 2 years building tracks and understanding the ins and outs of rF modding hoping to come back to LFS to see some real good progress. Alas, all I saw was that the tyres had become a little more realistic since patch K or whatever it was.. not a lot of anything else.



Regards,

Ian

[Ian.H]

[ snip ]

He's got family and stuff ;).

[ snip ]



I knew someone would bring that up. It's got fsck all to do with development.

Many others do too, we all manage to perform the same at work.


Regards,

Ian

[Dizzydarryn]

911... Hi, id like to report a crime... my thread has been Hi jacked....

[Byku]

Ok... bringing up the kids is kinda stereotypical(sorry for mistakes ;) ). I partly agree with big indicators of gears... it is stupid... but also helpful for people without wheels. Would You rather like to have floating, unrealistic gear indicator?

I disagree with F9-F12, personally i dont use them when racing just when testing setups... well... at least tyre temp graphs :P. About the rest of them... I believe they are there for testing... and they might be fixed in the future. About car stalling... true, true... there should be an option to disable that :P.

About progress. What I "like" about slow progress is the fact that LFS at least is "alive". Of course I would like bigger updates(like those which You mentioned).

Kids... Ok, You've got kids... and You are working... but are You alone in the company You are working in? Scawen is almost alone there in the programming stuff of LFS. Yeah... I know he could "hire" more people... and yes... I agree with that... progress certainly would be faster. And people who are saying that it would create conflicts inside dev team... hell... Scawen would be the boss, he would decide :P.

[garph]

I do agree with Ian, I didn't think we'd be in this position 3 years (more than 3 years I know) now into the games development, especially with bugs that have always been there.

I do love LFS but when patches come out I find myself thinking, why has this been added or why hasn't this issue been addressed. At times I feel like the real issues are just being by passed and other features added that weren't really wanted or needed at the current time.

I have faith in the devs, it's just taking longer than I thought.

[Dajmin]

I personally don't see what the problem is - if you're not happy with it, don't use it.

Updates, then.
Imagine, for example, the game didn't have English text. Would you even be able to log in, let alone know what settings you were messing with? So the global language support is really important. This may be a shock, but not everyone speaks English.

Development is slow, yes. But you can't ignore that these are just a couple of normal guys who happen to have gotten lucky. You bought an ALPHA stage product. If development stopped tomorrow you would have nothing to complain about. Plenty of people watch alpha MMOs turn into vaporware in front of them after a couple of years - you should think yourself lucky the developers have the ability to keep LFS going at all.

You need to get the foundations built before you can put the walls in. Adding language support now means less work in the future. I guess it's the same in terms of mechanics - the clutch determines whether the car moves or not, so the basic model that's in now can be expanded in the future.

Go do something else for a while. It takes full software houses a few years to make a new game and a couple for a sequel. Now remove 95% of that software house and get them to do the same thing. Will it take 95% longer? Maybe. But it doesn't matter as long as something is still happening.

[Ian.H]

Ok... bringing up the kids is kinda stereotypical(sorry for mistakes ;) ). I partly agree with big indicators of gears... it is stupid... but also helpful for people without wheels. Would You rather like to have floating, unrealistic gear indicator?

I don't think it makes much difference with or without a wheel (G25 etc excluded). My DFP only has a sequential lever.. ie: it's always in the central position when not being moved... yet I can play a game without needing a gear indicator (I stripped all that crap out when I converted the XRT to rF.. never had a problem of being in the wrong gear etc, that's what the sound engine is for :) ).

No gear indicator would be the way to go, except in cars that warrant it (GTR perhaps etc as part of a more combined AIM-like display.. and certainly not embedded within a friggin wood-trimmed dashboard! hahahahah).

I disagree with F9-F12, personally i dont use them when racing just when testing setups... well... at least tyre temp graphs :P. About the rest of them... I believe they are there for testing... and they might be fixed in the future.


You can feel when the tyres are screwed.. you start sliding about. How many real cars do you think have tyre temp sensors? I'm sure, there are some (the likes of F1 maybe?) but they're probably very few n far between.

Testing items like that should be used in internal versions, not released versions. Heck, a simple if() statement wrapped around the code sections could sort that out (much like the engine sound editor used to be). I don't leave loads of debugging things in tools I code even if in beta state.. they'd be for my use.

About car stalling... true, true... there should be an option to disable that :P.


No.. no option! Why is this the first line that everyone claims? Why an option for something that simply isn't optional (or shouldn't be). No other car game I own stalls after n secs. Just because LFS core is now in the dark ages in comparison to the rest of the car sim market, doesn't mean cheap hacks such as that should be permitted and worse, accepted.


About progress. What I "like" about slow progress is the fact that LFS at least is "alive". Of course I would like bigger updates(like those which You mentioned).


Can't say there's anything I like about the all-but-non-existent progress. I do appreciate coding takes time.. but now it's just taking the piss.


Kids... Ok, You've got kids... and You are working... but are You alone in the company You are working in? Scawen is almost alone there in the programming stuff of LFS.


Now, I work for a small Inet company.. started 6 months ago. For the previous 6 years, I ran my own business (just me, no one else) of web design and web hosting.. that included coding, server maintenance, accounts, tech support, client requests, etc etc.


Yeah... I know he could "hire" more people... and yes... I agree with that... progress certainly would be faster. And people who are saying that it would create conflicts inside dev team... hell... Scawen would be the boss, he would decide :P.


I do actually understand Scawen's view on this.. I much prefer working on my own projects solo, but alas, when you're in the market of producing something for the masses, that isn't always an option. To me, the devs (and unfortunately, many of the community) seem to think LFS is a hobby and that we're 'lucky' to be able to participate in the experience. Bollox! LFS is the equivalent of GT5(P) for the playstation. It's a commercial title released as a demonstration of what's to come. Unfortunately, by the time LFS catches up, cars and wheels will be a thing of the past... we'll all be racing Back to the Future style hover boards.. and then the wait will start yet again.

LFS _does_ need more development power (especially in the modelling dept) but are too stubborn to accept this as reality.. which then pretty much says 'fsck you, you'll get it when I'm damn well good and ready' to the community, IMO.



Regards,

Ian

[BurnOut69]

Wow Ian doesnt it get boring for you? I fully understand your point and I agree to an extent, but it seems to me EVERY post of yours has a pun towards the LFS dev team.

Regards,

I am (tired of reading repeating posts).

[(FIN)Eza]

Hi guys,

I uploaded a hot lap last night, and got this email this morning...

" you have recently uploaded a hotlap at www.lfsworld.net (http://www.lfsworld.net), driven at SO6 with the XFG.

Unfortunately our additional hotlap checker did not validate your hotlap. As such, it has been removed from the LFS World hotlap charts.

The reason for the invalidity was: your hotlap did not pass the current HLVC check."


Not sure if anyone has received this before. As far as i remember, the lap was valid while i was driving it, and hence my ability to upload it...

Can anyone shed any light, so that the same thing doesnt happen again?

Thanks

Just so this topic isn't going for TOTALLY OFFTOPIC.. for the actual question, answer is.. In Y17 or Y18 (can't remember which one was it) scawen fixed soft wall issue what some hotlappers were using to get faster. Like braking with hitting walls. So now there's much more better HLVC-checking now + LFSW has checking also so it's like double checking that everything is fine :smileypul Get latest test patch (Y22) from test patch forum and you will be fine + you get few new features also, check here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=821353#post821353) :)

What comes to this OT whining... can't you guys make the 524542135th thread about slow development instead of hijacking any thread there is :P
It is slow and we have gone through this maybe 542543 times already, but whining more about it doesn't change a thing.. except making our community look even more retard what it's already is :leb:

[Ped7g]

I always thought the major changes to physics engine were planned between S1/S2 and S2/S3, so as the S2 is getting closer to final release, it should be looking the progress on physics is very low and development is slow.
I'm taking the last patches as "polishing" of S2 before final release, and before Scawen will move onto S3, where the most of the major changes will be implemented early followed by many dull years of another stage of just-polishing.

Either I'm wrong and the development is really going off the track, or I will be proven right within next 3-35 years. :D

[510N3D]

Yeah? If you think adding foreign languages is progress, when the likes of aerodynamics, engine modelling, turbo modelling are nothing but bad jokes, then good for you, you must be easily pleased.

This statement of yours is a perfect example of how you're judging the situation while actually knowing...jack shit. Do you think the devs revealing everything? Every step of development or progression? I really doubt that. Do you actually have any idea about what it takes to make a sim like this? Getting it as realistic as possible while at the same time dealing with the exponential growning demand for all the details? I dont know all the stuff as well but if im just looking into all those technically based threads where stuff is beeing discussed over pages or simple play the game im able to get and idea about it. Failing to see that and ignoring the effort behind it is just disrespectful and arrogant.

For me it became clear a long time ago that LFS is going its path the way the developers think it should be (hint: SRT interview with Victor). If adding features and fixing hundreds of bugs to make this product more stable and more useable for further development has a higher priority then adding content en mass then so be it. I dont mind how long it takes since i know that this concept or approach is different and the team consists only out of three people (leaving the community out of the equation but if you have a look at the exit screen you'll get an idea about who is involved as well). I dont mind about the content either, something is on its way, sooner or later, i guess. If you are unable to hold your horses then this is certainly the wrong game for you and you're free to play something else and dont worry about your money thus im sure has been payed off by now.

Also, comparing this team with a usual buisness is bare nonesense. Of course they need money for a living but if it would be only for that then we wouldn't have to have such a discussion. Instead people would moan about a product, which maybe had tons of content and most of the stuff that people demand would be available rather quickly but im sure that there would be a huge lack of quality.

Anyway, i have my doubts that you're actually understanding what im talking about or even willing to do so and im sick of the smattering by people like you, regardless of the actual topic.

[tristancliffe]

This statement of yours is a perfect example of how you're judging the situation while actually knowing...jack shit. Do you think the devs revealing everything? Every step of development or progression? I really doubt that. Do you actually have any idea about what it takes to make a sim like this? Getting it as realistic as possible while at the same time dealing with the exponential growning demand for all the details? I dont know all the stuff as well but if im just looking into all those technically based threads where stuff is beeing discussed over pages or simple play the game im able to get and idea about it. Failing to see that and ignoring the effort behind it is just disrespectful and arrogant.

For me it became clear a long time ago that LFS is going its path the way the developers think it should be (hint: SRT interview with Victor). If adding features and fixing hundreds of bugs to make this product more stable and more useable for further development has a higher priority then adding content en mass then so be it. I dont mind how long it takes since i know that this concept or approach is different and the team consists only out of three people (leaving the community out of the equation but if you have a look at the exit screen you'll get an idea about who is involved as well). I dont mind about the content either, something is on its way, sooner or later, i guess. If you are unable to hold your horses then this is certainly the wrong game for you and you're free to play something else and dont worry about your money thus im sure has been payed off by now.

Also, comparing this team with a usual buisness is bare nonesense. Of course they need money for a living but if it would be only for that then we wouldn't have to have such a discussion. Instead people would moan about a product, which maybe had tons of content and most of the stuff that people demand would be available rather quickly but im sure that there would be a huge lack of quality.

Anyway, i have my doubts that you're actually understanding what im talking about or even willing to do so and im sick of the smattering by people like you, regardless of the actual topic.

Good post.
If LFS is too slow for you, then play/do something else until content/features are added that you enjoy. We all knew the development style when we signed up - the aim is the final result, not the speed at which it's reached.

[mcintyrej]

When I was speaking about the wrong direction, I meant adding loads of new language packs that the minority's will use and mainly just adding new stuff. Rather than going back and fixing the massive issues with LFS that mean that its not a simulator.

For example:

-Flying when you hit a red barrier
-Flying when you hit walls at a wrong angle
-Flying when you exit the pits at the wrong angle
-Clutch heating too fast

[Ian.H]

Good post.
If LFS is too slow for you, then play/do something else until content/features are added that you enjoy. We all knew the development style when we signed up - the aim is the final result, not the speed at which it's reached.


Actually, development was quite a bit faster before Scawen had kids. Now, it's like he's bored with the "hardcore stuff" and just fscking about with the fluff if / when anything is actually happening.

All in all now, I've actually come to the point of regretting paying for the licenses I have and supporting what is obviously a dead horse.

Once bitten...................... at least I'll know _never_ to pay for a WIP software title ever again.. so I guess LFS taught me one thing.

But we all know you're a fanboi anyway.. so your post is really a moot one :)



Regards,

Ian

[DeadWolfBones]

Ian's been a troll since the day I got here in 2003 and he'll be a troll until the day he dies.

:feedtroll

[Ian.H]

Ian's been a troll since the day I got here in 2003 and he'll be a troll until the day he dies.


Well that's a crock of shit, seeing as I only got involved with the game in April '04.

You really are stupid and obviously full of shit, making anything you post in the future more than likely a lie too :D

[Mille Sabords]

He saw you coming from afar? ;)

[Gil07]

I think you English speakers really need to stop being so arrogant... Why does everything have to be only in english and is the rest "minor"? I'm sure that if LFS was developed in chinese only you'd be very grateful when support for English finally came...

[Mackie The Staggie]

When I was speaking about the wrong direction, I meant adding loads of new language packs that the minority's will use and mainly just adding new stuff. Rather than going back and fixing the massive issues with LFS that mean that its not a simulator.

For example:

-Flying when you hit a red barrier
-Flying when you hit walls at a wrong angle
-Flying when you exit the pits at the wrong angle
-Clutch heating too fast

Flying when exiting the pits at wrong angle?:really: What angle were you going at?

Add my 10 cents in before the lock, The devs had 2 options to take, either address the big issues which could take god knows how long, or address the small, and more likey longer list, of smaller tasks to get done before the final relase. Now what ever way you look at it, it was always going to leave some part of the community dissapointed, so they were in a lose/lose situation. What it does mean is that once all the small tasks have been taken care of, they can really hammer the major issues knowing that there is nothing else that can/will distract them.

And if you don't like were it is going (or not depending upon you're view), then cut you're losses and clear off, why continue with something which clearly does not bring you any joy......

...unless you enjoy being a moaning old biddy in the back of the queue at the post office. :scratchch

[DieKolkrabe]

...thanks Mackie

Now I have a mental image of Ian in an overcoat with grey hair and glasses, clutching a purse and yapping loudly about nothing

[DeadWolfBones]

Well that's a crock of shit, seeing as I only got involved with the game in April '04.

You really are stupid and obviously full of shit, making anything you post in the future more than likely a lie too :D

Touché!

So let me revise: been a troll since the day he got here in '04, and will be a troll...

You get the idea.

[DeadWolfBones]

Flying when exiting the pits at wrong angle?:really: What angle were you going at?

I think he means if you clip the garage wall with the side of your car when exiting. It usually launches you and causes massive damage.

[The Radness]

I think you English speakers really need to stop being so arrogant... Why does everything have to be only in english and is the rest "minor"? I'm sure that if LFS was developed in chinese only you'd be very grateful when support for English finally came...

:smileypul:thumb:

[Luke.S]

I think ian would make a good dev. He would be able to code a new car in a matter of weeks so we would get new content all the time

sarcasm

[Mackie The Staggie]

I think he means if you clip the garage wall with the side of your car when exiting. It usually launches you and causes massive damage.

Well to be honest, if you can't get out of the sodding pit garage without contact with a wall, then maybe, just maybe (and I'm going out on a limb here) the race track is not for you. :shrug:

[BlackEye]

Well to be honest, if you can't get out of the sodding pit garage without contact with a wall, then maybe, just maybe (and I'm going out on a limb here) the race track is not for you. :shrug:

Maybe, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. My guess it will be fixed along with other impact detection flaws in LFS.
You could say tire curves beyond limit doesn't need to be correct becouse to put a fast lap down you won't go too much beyond the limits.
Doesn't make much sense, does it? :)

[blackbird04217]

Ian - being here for 4 years on a game for $50usd (give or take according to exchange rate) is quite a steal. I've actually bought hi-res skins to support the devs further as my soul feels bad for "stealing" LFS. (I have bought my license and all the good stuff but the enjoyment I have got out of it has made that seem very close to free. Almost pennies per month).

As far as development, I totally agree that they may be working on things in the back ground. There is a difference from what they are working on and testing, and what we see - at least content wise I am sure. As far as the language support I was thinking its on of the better things to come to LFS, a truly global game if you will. Sure there are bugs, the devs know about the GTRs with road interiors, and they know about the barriers and such. Some of these (the barriers) aren't as simple as adding a bit of code to fix, its possible they know the issue and need to redo an entire section and it takes time to get around to it. However, that being said I don't feel its the largest problem, why are you racing into the barriers? Thats not the fast way around the track :P Yes it happens occasionally that you get to close.

Anyways, a note to the developers: Please don't get discouraged from so many people asking to speed up and add more content and all of that stuff. I am happy where I've spent my money and free updates are always great. You will see me in S3 when it comes out. I hope people that disagree will learn to keep their mouths shut so that it doesn't discourage you. Thanks for Live For Speed

[AndroidXP]

Anyways, a note to the developers: Please don't get discouraged from so many people asking to speed up and add more content and all of that stuff.Oh don't worry. They're used to years worth of whining about that, I think they take it as a given. ;) :razz:

[blackbird04217]

Oh don't worry. They're used to years worth of whining about that, I think they take it as a given. ;) :razz:

Used to it or not after awhile it will take a draining effect on their morale, and wouldn't be surprised if this is starting to make LFS feel like a job to them rather than some fun. I hope they are having fun while developing LFS and also that more people show positive support rather than whining. Honestly I don't know how they keep their morales up, just from reading this thread, and others around the forums it makes me feel bad... I guess the developers just have a wonderful turtle shell that can block away all of this stuff, and that is great!

[Ian.H]

Ian - being here for 4 years on a game for $50usd (give or take according to exchange rate) is quite a steal. I've actually bought hi-res skins to support the devs further as my soul feels bad for "stealing" LFS. (I have bought my license and all the good stuff but the enjoyment I have got out of it has made that seem very close to free. Almost pennies per month).


The only time I've ever charged for development, is when a client has come to me directly and said "can you code me..........". It was part of $day_job. Everything else I've coded, since I was 8 years old, has been for free.. trying to tell me that $50 (or the equiv.) is a steal means sweet FA to me when I've worked my bollox off for months or whatever and released XYZ for free :)

I'm very much an open-source man.. my servers run FreeBSD adn have done for the past 7 years, that software didn't cost me a penny, but has enabled me to earn some cash in the process.. prices mean nothing.. my regret now is that I feel I may as well have just pissed it up the wall in a pub somewhere.


As far as development, I totally agree that they may be working on things in the back ground. There is a difference from what they are working on and testing, and what we see - at least content wise I am sure. As far as the language support I was thinking its on of the better things to come to LFS, a truly global game if you will. Sure there are bugs, the devs know about the GTRs with road interiors, and they know about the barriers and such. Some of these (the barriers) aren't as simple as adding a bit of code to fix, its possible they know the issue and need to redo an entire section and it takes time to get around to it. However, that being said I don't feel its the largest problem, why are you racing into the barriers? Thats not the fast way around the track :P Yes it happens occasionally that you get to close.

[ snip ]




But these bugs have been in there since the day I started playing LFS, over 4 years ago! That's simply just unacceptable. It's one thing knowing about something, it's an entirely different matter dealing with it.

A lot of what I do revolves around security and servers. No software is perfect.. so from time to time, there are patches I need to install to fix security issues. I don't just the software / company so much on what / number of issues they have but on their resolution activity. 1 security hole ignored for 2 years is by far worse than 10 holes patched within 24 hours.

Granted, we're not talking about security here with LFS, but I hope the above seems relevant. If LFS only had 1 bug (lets take the collision detection for an example) that so far hasn't been fixed in at least 4 years, that's far worse than company XYZ who manage to patch 10 bugs within 6 months (just example figures).



Regards,

Ian

[Ian.H]

Used to it or not after awhile it will take a draining effect on their morale, and wouldn't be surprised if this is starting to make LFS feel like a job to them rather than some fun.

[ snip ]




I damn well hope it does! This is _the_ problem. LFS is _not_ a hobby / "something to do for fun".. it's a commercial enterprise.. they're charging for their product. Once you do that, it _is_ a job and no longer "for fun".

I used to code web sites for fun. The moment I started charging for sites and turning it into a business, was the day I had an obligation to my customers to perform a certain way (ie: quality and speed).

The sooner the devs, and 90% of the community realise that, the better. We might, just might, see some forward progress instead of side stepping and dancing around in stupid circles.



Regards,

Ian

[blackbird04217]

Granted, we're not talking about security here with LFS, but I hope the above seems relevant. If LFS only had 1 bug (lets take the collision detection for an example) that so far hasn't been fixed in at least 4 years, that's far worse than company XYZ who manage to patch 10 bugs within 6 months (just example figures).

Where as I totally see your point I also see the 80/20 rule. It takes 20% of the effort for the first 80% and 80% of the effort for the last 20%. I'm not saying the bug is great, but your statement of the above isn't true to me. (Security it may stand true as people would know to break in and spread the news, thats quite different.) 10 small bugs in 24hrs may not be as much as 1 giant bug thats been there for 4 years... Except your missing the point of they are still developing and working on it... About your money, you made the choice to spend it (4yrs ago?) so how is that a bad deal if your still even active 1 day a month in LFS, you're certainly more that that active on the forums so I really can't see a money complaint.

[Jertje]

Although I don't necessarily agree with his wording of the problem, I do agree with Ian. It's not that I'm not happy with LFS... it's just that if I think realistically I feel that there might never be a S3, or even a final version of S2.

I have plenty of other games to play and hobbies to practice, and even without playing LFS much I still enjoy reading the forums. so that's not a problem, but I've definitely lost my initial hopefulness of a more complete package in the future.

Adding new languages is fine, but it still feels as a second, or even third priority job to me; doing touch-ups to a final product before it's shipped. However, LFS is not a finished product, and although I have no business in the overall development process - It feels like the list of priorities is in the wrong order.

I'm not saying this as a rant or whine on the developers, because for all I know they could be working hard behind the scenes... and heck, I know they've heard the same story over and over again ;) it's just that it seems as if the game development itself (not the presentation, including languages) has come to a halt.

:shrug:

[patrese]

when has anyone ever bought anything that gets updated for free? (not including antivirus software or windows to keep them up to date or stable)
you wouldnt expect your car to be replaced for free everytime a new model hits the market.
or a new kettle, cos now it comes with a funky light.
you dont buy something, thinking its not good but hopeing it will get better one day?

[tristancliffe]

Maybe Scawen has already fixed it the collision bug in his development version of S3, with an all new physics code. The point is we don't know what's going on in the background, only what we see. But Scawen did say at one point last year that he is now managing two development threads - one for the next patch, and one for... he didn't exactly say.

It may be that that duel-development process was for patch Y only, it might be that it's just how it will be until S2 becomes final... We don't know, and I'll look forward to finding out the results.

[DeadWolfBones]

Adding new languages is fine, but it still feels as a second, or even third priority job to me; doing touch-ups to a final product before it's shipped. However, LFS is not a finished product, and although I have no business in the overall development process - It feels like the list of priorities is in the wrong order.

...or you can think about it in terms of a small development team that needs to sell new licenses to stay in business. Opening up new markets when you have a reasonably stable product to sell is probably a wise business decision (especially given the gaming market in Korea and other Asian rim nations). Adding native language support for those regions makes a ton of sense and it's easy to see why it's a priority.

[510N3D]

I damn well hope it does! This is _the_ problem. LFS is _not_ a hobby / "something to do for fun".. it's a commercial enterprise.. they're charging for their product. Once you do that, it _is_ a job and no longer "for fun".

I used to code web sites for fun. The moment I started charging for sites and turning it into a business, was the day I had an obligation to my customers to perform a certain way (ie: quality and speed).

The sooner the devs, and 90% of the community realise that, the better. We might, just might, see some forward progress instead of side stepping and dancing around in stupid circles.



Regards,

Ian


See, there's the catch. While your buisness may require regulary updates im unable to see that this is the case at the devs team. Im simple unable to see any evidence that this project is dependent at any kind of regularity, may it be for qualitative, quantitative, timeframe and surely not for request/ demand related reasons. In that case, and please correct me if im wrong, we would end up with a NFS alike clone or something and we would have to pay like 50 bugs to get an updated version each year or so. Maybe the game engine is beeing used for several years and only content/ storyline has changed or maybe you'll get something entirely new that is so different that you cant really use it the way you'd prefered it once. No major patches, no new content, nothing. I prefer the way of the devs simple because it allows them to stick to their own ideas and inspirations without the need or fear for external influences, at least not to the extend like in regularly companies.

This is the way i think its beeing handled and maybe i am wrong. I dont know but lots of stuff is backing this theory up for me and so im sorry if thats all just bs im typing here. However, without actually having a clue at all im not even trying to put myself into a position that implies that i am, unlike you Ian.

[Dajmin]

There's no business in the world HAS to keep updating it's product in any way at all. The owners CHOOSE to in order to keep up with the market.

Since LFS isn't technically in the commercial sim market yet (and the fact that they don't actively promote their product and it comes with a big alpha label prove this) they have nobody to keep up with. And in terms of driving models, even if they were selling it, it's still pretty much the only thing out there in terms of driving quality.

It's an indie product, therefor completely in the hands of the independant company making it. They never forced you to buy it, they're not forcing you to hand over any more money than you already chose to. They're not under any publisher deadlines and as such are more likely to continue developing happily rather than get so stressed that they want to pack it all in.

And if you ask me, that's far more preferable.

[Ian.H]

There's no business in the world HAS to keep updating it's product in any way at all. The owners CHOOSE to in order to keep up with the market.

Since LFS isn't technically in the commercial sim market yet (and the fact that they don't actively promote their product and it comes with a big alpha label prove this) they have nobody to keep up with. And in terms of driving models, even if they were selling it, it's still pretty much the only thing out there in terms of driving quality.

Once you hang a price tag on a product, it's commercial. Just because LFS is _still_ in fsckin alpha state, doesn't change that fact. Whether you want to accept that is another issue entirely, however.

It's definitely not the "only thing out there". Damn, even rF with a good physics man behind data can achieve some very good results (look at Niels as one example). LFS is nothing more than a limited arcade racer with half decent tyre physics at present.

It's an indie product, therefor completely in the hands of the independant company making it. They never forced you to buy it, they're not forcing you to hand over any more money than you already chose to. They're not under any publisher deadlines and as such are more likely to continue developing happily rather than get so stressed that they want to pack it all in.

And if you ask me, that's far more preferable.

So they keep raking in the cash and _if_ we're lucky, we _may_ actually see the end product we paid for, S2 final. Is this what you're saying? that if they decide 'bollox, no more' that that's ok? I bought S2 final.. granted, I picked it up early and have followed it's development, but the net result is that everyone who's paid for S2 has paid for the _final_ product, not a half-arsed effort at which it is right now.



Regards,

Ian

[JO53PHS]

I'm getting a bit bored of your continual cynical replies that serve no purpose other than to vent your own frustration with either LFS or something else we don't know about.
All you do is nag - nothing ever seems good enough for you. I wouldn't mind if you'd cut back on the nagging.

THANK YOU.

It had to be said sooner or later.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have got through to IanH that it would be appreciated if he would STFU for once (and hopefully forever)

[Mackie The Staggie]

So they keep raking in the cash and _if_ we're lucky, we _may_ actually see the end product we paid for, S2 final.

Don't know about you, but when I purchased LFS is was an ALPHA product, therefore i was buying an incomplete game. Correct me if I'm wrong here like, but I knew (like you're self) that the product was incomplete.


I'm actually tempted to post a picture containg the following items....Pram and Toys, because this is what it sounds like to me.

[Ian.H]

Don't know about you, but when I purchased LFS is was an ALPHA product, therefore i was buying an incomplete game. Correct me if I'm wrong here like, but I knew (like you're self) that the product was incomplete.

So you, like me, "invested early".. as I said, the net result is the same, we've paid to have the complete S2 product (else they'd be charging for patches).. just because we decided to pay early makes no difference whatsoever, but S2 final isn't coming any time soon.. fsck, S2 BETA ain't coming any time soon!


I'm actually tempted to post a picture containg the following items....Pram and Toys, because this is what it sounds like to me.

Post what you like.. back, water, ducks will instantly spring to mind :)



Regards,

Ian

[Mackie The Staggie]

So you, like me, "invested early".. as I said, the net result is the same, we've paid to have the complete S2 product (else they'd be charging for patches).. just because we decided to pay early makes no difference whatsoever, but S2 final isn't coming any time soon.. fsck, S2 BETA ain't coming any time soon!



So leave, erase it from you're hard drive and walk away.

If you have bad service at a restaurant, do you go back day after day and complain, If a plumber constantly overcharges and does a half baked job do you call him up again.

Of course you don't, so what I fail to understand is that if you are that unhappy about LFS, why are you still on the 'LFS' boards complaining about the lack of development at every chance you can.

Some people moan for a reason, others for a cause. Then you have complete and utter idiots who complain just for the sake of complaining.

[Stigpt]

I think the problem is most likely you _just_ grazed the wall, and it didnt register in the HLVC local. The web version is more restrctive. Are you using Y or testpatch Y22?

[niels1]

I agree to a certain point with Ian. Although I am not keen on the way he puts his thoughts down.

Bugs need to be fixed, several are from way back. They should have been fixed. The language pack is something I dont see the real need for it. I rather would have seen that the wall bug was fixed.

On viktors behave, Ian I know you mean it in a good manor but they way you are writting things down arent rearly clever. I can see Viktors point on that one.

[Ian.H]

Where as I totally see your point I also see the 80/20 rule. It takes 20% of the effort for the first 80% and 80% of the effort for the last 20%.


I completely understand that. I can build a drivable track surface from scratch in 3DS, with AI working in ~2 hours. That includes tarmac and a grass edge (or whatever, depending on track). Completing that track to make it a _track_, not just a loop of tarmac, takes a fair bit longer and often, a lot more tedious ("planting" hundreds of trees really does get monotonous). SO I do get that rule too, but c'mon.. there's only so far that you can push that... LFS went way beyond that point 18 months ago.


I'm not saying the bug is great, but your statement of the above isn't true to me. (Security it may stand true as people would know to break in and spread the news, thats quite different.) 10 small bugs in 24hrs may not be as much as 1 giant bug thats been there for 4 years...


Granted... it's not as serious as my security analogy, but my point remains. Even if it came down to a text editor.. if I had 2 and they both had 20 bugs, company ABC fixed 19 of theirs within 2 days and the final one within a week.. and comany XYZ fixed 5 of theirs in the first 4 days and left the remaining 16 for the next 4 years... but had added 4 extra languages to read the menus in.. which editor would you think was the better product, and which company would you think was the better company?

Except your missing the point of they are still developing and working on it...


But they're only half working on it (or at least, that's how it seems by way of what's being released). Bugs since day 1 remain, yet new and far less important crap is added "constantly"... the priority list just doesn't make sense (and pretty sure it's not just me).


About your money, you made the choice to spend it (4yrs ago?) so how is that a bad deal if your still even active 1 day a month in LFS, you're certainly more that that active on the forums so I really can't see a money complaint.


I can't remember the last race I had in LFS.. over the past 3 years, it's probably no more than 20 races due to it becoming stagnant and boring. Access to the forums are free, so the money consideration doesn't come into it there. It's not the point that I've paid £24 and feel hard done by.. I don't to an extent, I put that much in my car almost daily to get to and from work, it's the fact that nothing seems to be progressing forward for that. You wouldn't invest in a house if the market was static.. you may as well put it in a shoe box for 5 years later.. the £24 is nothing in monetary value, but a lot more in principle.



Regards,

Ian

[Ian.H]

So leave, erase it from you're hard drive and walk away.

If you have bad service at a restaurant, do you go back day after day and complain, If a plumber constantly overcharges and does a half baked job do you call him up again.

Of course you don't, so what I fail to understand is that if you are that unhappy about LFS, why are you still on the 'LFS' boards complaining about the lack of development at every chance you can.

Some people moan for a reason, others for a cause. Then you have complete and utter idiots who complain just for the sake of complaining.

I would just up and walk away, if I didn't want to be involved still.

If you pay for a hotel room for the month, and 5 days into that, faults that were reported on day one still haven't been addressed, you might take it further. That said, if you have been in the hotel before and liked it, you might just progress with the complaint and try again later and hope it was a simple glitch.

All this said, I want to enjoy LFS again like I used to... I want to be back part of dSRC in active manner rather than just being a coder / host.. but the lack of progress has killed any spark there. Damn, even 1 new (and I mean new, not regurgitated) track and a few bug fixes would probably keep me happy for a while. I don't want it all tomorrow, I do understand things take time.. but _something_ soon would be nice after waiting so long.



Regards,

Ian

[webdigga]

I only bought the game about a year ago and I already feel I have got my money's worth by a long long way.

I (like another poster) feel slightly guilty sometimes that I paid such a small fee and get continued use of this great game.

Also for what it's worth, as an English speaker - I think it's great that more is being done to cater for other languages.

:thumb: Keep up the good work!

[DeadWolfBones]

I can't remember the last race I had in LFS.. over the past 3 years, it's probably no more than 20 races due to it becoming stagnant and boring.

This sounds like a personal problem to me. There are plenty of us who have been racing that long and find new stuff to enjoy all the time.

[510N3D]

Damn, even 1 new (and I mean new, not regurgitated) track and a few bug fixes would probably keep me happy for a while. I don't want it all tomorrow, I do understand things take time.. but _something_ soon would be nice after waiting so long.


And very soon you would start moaning again about things you dont have the slightest clue about or things that are not worth moaning about. It also seems that you prefer to compare the incomparable or trying to make sense out of nonesense. Ignoring me doesn't help your case either but after all im not too keen anymore to discuss that with you in detail because you would simple ignore me again at some point, for some reason or another.

So, whatever.

[Nadeo4441]

Ian.H - Long waiting for updates? WTF?! You may be happy that this game is updated. Any other game - just release and then some patches with bug-fixes... If you dont like it , create your own and try make fast but quality updates .

He will write an half page - post again

[Robbo01]

why write so much i get bored reading it after i get half way through :(

but good things come to those who wait so something like come up sooner or later :shrug:

[Luke.S]

lol rob.

Ian if you think you can do better why don't you go make a simulator that is better than lfs?

[Homeless_Drunk]

I think this is one of the first times I have actually agreed with some of Ian's points.

Before I state my view...don't get me wrong...I love LFS...I tell everyone I run into that seems remotely interested in racing sims. Hell, I even got my boss to purchase a license for each one of his kids (5 licenses).

I wrote a big long thing stating my view and quoting other's posts but didn't feel the need to post all of it because after 'proof-reading' it I found it was nothing more than me venting my frustration about the speed of development. So here's what I think it comes down to...

Those who are complaining about certain things have been around a lot longer than those who don't see the problem. Those who have been around a long time and say there is nothing wrong with it are either super fanboys or just too dense to see what the problem is. When we purchased S2 we were aware that it was work in progress, but we didn't know development would slow to a crawl. LFS is 4+ years into development and there have been improvements and advancements but not as many as a lot of us thought there would be.

As hard as it is to say...I am slowly loosing interest in LFS due to its development speed. We have been promised things and are constantly told that new things will be added, bugs will be fixed and more features will pop up...when? I'm happy with the test patches and am in no way ungrateful for the work that has been done and continues to be done but it is just taking do long to get from point 'a' to point 'b'.

LFS has turned into a huge (excuse the lack of a better expression) cock tease. We have seen screen shots with detachable body parts but that was 2+ years ago...we have seen and heard about lots of things but have yet to actually see them first hand. That's great if they are not ready for a stable release but for the sake of fairness why not release an unstable open beta so we can actually see some progress?

I'm almost torn between 2 views...I understand why LFS development is slow and respect the dev team but at the same time I paid for a product that I thought would of been complete some time ago...

[Cue-Ball]

I'm almost torn between 2 views...I understand why LFS development is slow and respect the dev team but at the same time I paid for a product that I thought would of been complete some time ago...While I can see your point, what does "complete" mean? If the devs released Y23 tomorrow and called it "complete", would you be happy? Were you promised anything other than what you have right now?

[blackbird04217]

... snipped ...

I'm almost torn between 2 views...I understand why LFS development is slow and respect the dev team but at the same time I paid for a product that I thought would of been complete some time ago...

Like I replied to Ian, you didn't pay for a product with any guaranty that they will get to a certain level. There was no line in the agreement saying S2 will consist of X - and there is definitely no lines saying any deadline. I bought S2 a year ago, as I said before for a tiny fee I feel when I see the enjoyment I have had including both single player and multi-player, and didn't expect anymore development. Sure it was happening and I was aware that it would happen, but I have never once expected anything of the developers. I appreciate every little bit they have done, including language additions and such.

[AndroidXP]

We have been promised things and are constantly told that new things will be added, bugs will be fixed and more features will pop up...when?
?We have seen screen shots with detachable body parts but that was 2+ years ago...
??!?

Not to disagree with you in general, but what are you smoking? I have yet to see the devs parade around and announce features that they don't deliver (let's not talk about the endlessly postponed GTR interiors now, please, we all know), nor have I seen any screenshots with said detachable body parts. You sure you aren't confusing this with some other game? I mean, maybe I have missed the things you talk about - if so, please post some quotes and the screenshots, I'd be very interested to hear about that. :confused:

[Matrixi]

The development is slow. Too slow.

I agree on Ian's thoughts about the development priorities being a bit upside down, but I don't agree that LFS has been too costly or that I would feel ripped by the money it has cost me. Heck, I've been a HR skin buyer since they became available, and I think they are good enough value for my money as I enjoy the little extra eye-candy they can give me over the fugly 512x512 car skins from the Quake 1 days.

Having driven LFS for ~6 years now, mostly drifting sometimes racing, I still play LFS a few times a month. Sometimes I keep a few month break while playing either Forza 2 or GT5P, and then come back to play LFS for a couple of evenings. That said, other games will only "work" on refreshing my interest in LFS for so-and-so long. If this is still the point where we stand at development wise, let's say for an example, 2-3 years.. I will be quite disappointed and propably not too keen to play LFS monthly or much at all anymore. Still, knowing nothing else in the near-future will beat LFS in physics and FFB, it irritates me to know that LFS is all that I will have to drive on my PC and it will keep irritating me with it's lack of content. Being addicted on a driving sim sucks, huh.

What I do not quite understand is, what is it taking so much time to make extra content on the current build of LFS? As far as I can see, nothing is stopping Eric from making us more tracks and cars, as those do not require much coding (perhaps suspension hardpoints and small detail bits) from Scawen. Seeing how bloody long simple updated GTR interiors are taking to get done, I'm starting to question our artist developers motivation towards delivering us what we need. Would it be too much asked to hire another game artist to accommodate the needs of the community? Surely UK is filled with great game artist that would fit the criterias of LFS dev crew with no issues if that would be the case.

The thing that annoys me in the development, or the lack of it, is the huge potential of LFS. Nothing else feels as good to drive with an artificial wheel and pedals as LFS does. GT5P does come preee-tty close with it's good FFB, but it fails too hard in physics. That is why I am irritated at the lack of serious development. If you really think that the devs are working on something in the backround, don't you think they would have already let us know something? Surely they too must have noticed that the LFS userbase is starting to get tired at lack of new content.

PS. We drifters are still graving for that 45 degree steering lock, but I guess it's hopeless to ask for such a tiny tweak. :shrug:

PPS. Dang, broke my promise again about not posting here. Oh well. :x

[Homeless_Drunk]

While I can see your point, what does "complete" mean? If the devs released Y23 tomorrow and called it "complete", would you be happy? Were you promised anything other than what you have right now?

No, in fact I would be pretty pissed...because there are still a lot of features and content that has been talked about, some of which have even been seen in screenshots, and we have yet to see first hand...complete to me means the game includes all the features and content that has been talked about by the devs...I/we was/were not promised anything but we have been shown and told about 'things to come' for quite some time...

AndroidXP, I'm not smoking anything...they were in one of those 'easter egg' screen shots. I know I am not the only one who remembers it...it wasn't blatantly obvious but it was there in the background of the pic...if I remember correctly a wing had come off of an open wheeled car...

I guess my use of the word 'promised' was more of a 'this has been talked about a lot by the devs and they said it would be part of SX'...when you say stuff like that you kind of raise the bar and expectations of the community and when you see no result it is frustrating....

[Cue-Ball]

I guess my use of the word 'promised' was more of a 'this has been talked about a lot by the devs and they said it would be part of SX'...when you say stuff like that you kind of raise the bar and expectations of the community and when you see no result it is frustrating....Can you give some examples? The only thing I can think of which we've been promised (or even hinted at getting) is the GTR interiors. I don't recall seeing any screenshots with breakable cars and I certainly don't recall Scawen ever making any indication that we would see anything like that in S2. I would love to be proven wrong.

What needs to be fixed for S2 to be "complete" to you?

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

Can you give some examples? The only thing I can think of which we've been promised (or even hinted at getting) is the GTR interiors. I don't recall seeing any screenshots with breakable cars and I certainly don't recall Scawen ever making any indication that we would see anything like that in S2. I would love to be proven wrong.

What needs to be fixed for S2 to be "complete" to you?

See Scawen's post:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=705431#post705431

But I don't think he released any screenshots...

[Woz]

MODS: Close this pointless thread of bitching. For a moment I thought it was the NKP forum

People step away from the keyboard and chill

[AndroidXP]

;833097']See Scawen's post:

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=705431#post705431

But I don't think he released any screenshots...
Guess what, hardware drawing of sub objects was implemented in the last test patch.

E: Ah okay, you only wanted to show that Scawen confirmed that this is a step towards making wings fall off.

[The Radness]

I laugh everytime I read one of Ian's posts. They are so condescending, but they always end in "regards, Ian". :shrug:

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

Guess what, hardware drawing of sub objects was implemented in the last test patch...

Yes, and that means it will be possible to break off wings in a future incompatible patch, probably before S2 full.

[tristancliffe]

they were in one of those 'easter egg' screen shots. I know I am not the only one who remembers it...it wasn't blatantly obvious but it was there in the background of the pic...if I remember correctly a wing had come off of an open wheeled car...

The pictures you speak of do not exist, and never have existed in an official form. It may be that you fell for a photoshop of an offical screenshot, and have spent the last 2+ years being pwned. But LFS or it's test-team has never released any images of detachable parts.

[Homeless_Drunk]

The pictures you speak of do not exist, and never have existed in an official form. It may be that you fell for a photoshop of an offical screenshot, and have spent the last 2+ years being pwned. But LFS or it's test-team has never released any images of detachable parts.

no, I'm pretty sure that the image was hosted @ lfs.net. I wouldn't of brought it up if I was unsure about it...I remember there being a pretty lengthy thread about it too...do yourself a favor and stop being so smug about everything...

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

no, I'm pretty sure that the image was hosted @ lfs.net. I wouldn't of brought it up if I was unsure about it...I remember there being a pretty lengthy thread about it too...do yourself a favor and stop being so smug about everything...

Please, could you provide more details? We don't have such picture and teaser at the official news archive at LFS.net, show us the thread you are talking about at RSC and we will beleive you.

[Homeless_Drunk]

I'm not going to spend hours digging though 2 forums to find 1 image...I just remember it was during the time that the first sneak peeks of the open wheeled cars were released by the LFS team. I'm not asking you to believe me...I just remember what I saw and what I read...

[Paranoid Android]

I do remember this picture a bit, and the conclusion was that the impression was due to some bug. The wing was underground or something like that...:nod:

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

I'm not going to spend hours digging though 2 forums to find 1 image...I just remember it was during the time that the first sneak peeks of the open wheeled cars were released by the LFS team. I'm not asking you to believe me...I just remember what I saw and what I read...

I do remember this picture a bit, and the conclusion was that the impression was due to some bug. The wing was underground or something like that...:nod:

I remember a discussion about something like this but I certainly don't remember any official screenshots and announcements about falling parts. But of course I could be wrong as everyone else.

[Paranoid Android]

;833200']I remember a discussion about something like this but I certainly don't remember any official screenshots and announcements about falling parts. But of course I could be wrong as everyone else.

There was certainly no announcement of falling parts, but the screenshot was official. They were just a bit rushed in the process of choosing screenshots so there was one that allowed some speculation by trigger happy speculators! I give them that it was back in the days were the devs were toying with us with some teasers...

[Gizz]

ian really mate what friggin planet are you from??? :really:

ill begin by saying yes i would like more updates and i would like the bugs to patched once and for all, and if you asked the devs they would all say the same thing...

so then we ask the question why not???... are the devs creaming LFS??? well considering its a non monthly payment i wouldnt have thought so, but you seem to have CCTV in scawns office so please let us in on whats going on behind closed doors//..

next i wont to say you have got to be the most arrogant and selfish person i have had the misfortune to meet on these boards... and with that 2 faced please let me explain...

if you think by adding languages the devs have ripped you off, you need help.. i think that is extreamly selfish. and im sure that scawen himself would have rather spent that time on a new track or car, but in from a business point of view it was vital...

you keep using your job as a web designer / security tech, as an example??? that was my bussiness for some years also and you know as well as me this is a TOTALY different kettle of fish.

you have a customer come to you, tell you what they want, you outline find what there needs are and then you give them the product in a given time frame and at the quality you outlined, how the hell does that tie in with LFS and the way the devs and the gaming world works on the whole???, its not even close and you know it..

so if your the business man you say you are how come you find it so hard to understand the languages idea??? personly its the best thing the devs ever did from a business point of view..

you then start blabbing how YOU... CHOOSE... to open sorce all your work, im not knocking you for that i thinks its nice of you to do such a thing no matter how small the program, but so do a lot of other guys here in LFS and they aint crying wolf.... you knew you wasn't buying a FULL game so if the devs shut up shop tomorow who are we to complain??..

i have brought many things in my life that are a load of ball's, but it dont matter wich way you cut ya cloth i made the decision to buy, when i payed for LFS i looked at what LFS offered i made the decision to pay and LFS lived up to that, if the devs shut up shop the next day after i payed i carnt complain, the product was as described..

lets use your web-design scenario...

a customer hire's you to build a site they sell car's.... you complete the job you get paid.. 3 months latter they come knocking your door saying they now sell motorbikes and your site doesnt show this.... (actualy had this one) the customer paid for a site selling cars.. if they want bikes added they better cough up the dosh, you wouldnt be to pleased if they was spouting crap on your doorstep infront of the neighbours would ya???? so why do it here????

the cut and dry of it is, you brought product as described end off, in the TOC it say's jack about how many updates and in what time frame, yes you are allowed to have your opinion on the current state of LFS, but your comming over like you want ya money back or somthing, i have a loft filled with 40/50 quid games i played for 2 days and never fired up again i aint jumping all over E.A's forums spreading the crap, and thats the next point i have a pet hate for E.A one of the biggest and apart from the sports stuff they spew out crap after crap, these companies get ya in the net for 50 quid and dont give a tos after that, doesnt matter if crashes on lvl 4 they have ya money..

Again you knew full well what you was buying into, they aint got the manpower of the big guns and you knew that...

if when you came to LFS the was 1 car 1 track with packman like grafix but the site said "buy now and in a year this will look twice as good as gran turismo and have the physics of a F1 simulator" would you have punched your CC number in????? NO...... you knew it was in alpha/beta and you KNOW that 40% alpha/beta programs go bang (unless there backed by the big guns.. in witch case they sell you the shity end result anyway) so what have you got to moan about???

if i sell you my car and the engine is dead, i tell you the situation and say with all the best intentions "ill do my best to fit a new engine" do you buy it saying to yourself "he will fit a new engine" OR "i may be buying a car here without a engine.." if you would think the former you are a fool and im suprised you can afford a internet connection...

as regards development WE JUST DONT KNOW.. scawen could release a patch this week with 10 new tracks and 200 new cars (doubtfull granted) we just dont know... although you seem to have inside info on this i wish you would share!!...

last thing... if i here another comment like "progress has been slow since scawen had kids" my blood's gona boil.....
i lost my 2 year old daughter 5 weeks ago m8 and i dont care what you want.
yea yea its a "business" ive been there m8 but at the end of the day, money is just paper and bollox to the job/customer... if i could give scawen a bit of advice now it would be turn off the PC stuff LFS and take the misses and kids out...
If scawen drops this right now, he can do it again in 10 years, but there are some things you only get one chance at m8 and take it from me the missis and ya kids come before anything!!.. yea sorry to say even your 25 quid....

[Homeless_Drunk]

There was certainly no announcement of falling parts, but the screenshot was official. They were just a bit rushed in the process of choosing screenshots so there was one that allowed some speculation by trigger happy speculators! I give them that it was back in the days were the devs were toying with us with some teasers...

I'm glad someone else knows what I am talking about so I don't seem like one of them crazies, haha :)

[Cue-Ball]

;833106']Yes, and that means it will be possible to break off wings in a future incompatible patch, probably before S2 full.While that is quite possible, it's purely speculation. I certainly wouldn't count on getting parts that break off in S2. If we do, GREAT! But don't count those chickens before they hatch.

Other than the "flying into space" bug when hitting objects and the GTR interiors that we know, I don't really see any unfulfilled promised features.

There are a ton of things I would like to see added to LFS: more cars, more tracks, engine damage, better suspension damage, track surface temp, etc. But hoping to get something and expecting it to be delivered are two different things. Hell, I keep hoping that SimBin will come out with something that feels even remotely like driving a car, but I certainly don't expect it. :D

[Stigpt]

*enters thread*

Sorry I though this was a thread about HLVC invalidating a hotlap.
Didnt realize there was a war going on in here - sorry. Must've entered the wrong thread.
Ill be leaving now... quietly...

*runs out the door*

[Byku]

Omg... priceless :D.

[franky500]

I Believe it is about time to close this thread, It is no longer even remotely close to the original topic.