Laser Scanned Tracks

[Electrik Kar]

I want to get a poll rolling about what people think about the idea of having laser scanned tracks in LFS. Is it something that appeals to you? Why, or why not? Write as much as you want and tick a (multiple choice) poll option. (if the option you're looking for isn't available, I might edit the poll to include it)

Ok, let's hear your responses... :)

edit:

Here's a video interview (http://www.insidesimracing.tv/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=151&Itemid=210) with Brendon 'Piddy' Pywell on laser scanning.

[mikey_G]

LFS doesn't really NEED laser scanned track, we just need more bumps on the track and I have no clue why the devs haven't done this already. The past year lfs went to a "more" hardcore mode with the removal of certain driving aids and addition of other transmission types, but we still have easy and sterile tracks.

[Ian.H]

Hmm, can you laser scan fictional tracks? :scratchch

Let's face it, the devs aren't serious enough about existing real life content (I'm all for fictional tracks, so it don't bother me, just wish Eric had a bit more imagination).

Could you imagine the speed of development though? Hahahahah.. Eric's progress would be permanently in reverse.. he seems to have enough of a problem with the basics of manipulating vertices with the currently available tools. IMO, it'd be like giving a blind fella a paint-by-numbers book.



Regards,

Ian

[Stiggie]

About the bumps, i think there are plenty of bumps in lfs at South City, 'for me it's quite hard to do a lap on that with the BF1 (could be my own skillz though :D). However, i can adjust this in the menu, where you can change the lateral movement... But the other tracks would be cool with a few bumps, i agree. But on the other side, real racing tracks aren't really that bumpy too i think.. specially the F1 tracks.. so why would lfs need that? :shrug:

[Dajmin]

I think what the devs could do is get hold of telemetry data for real life sections of road. Take, for example, the area of the M25 a little way from my house. There must be data for it somewhere.

So you get the height, width, bumps and stuff, and you have a section of road. Find a few roads that match up to make a circuit, remove all of the junctions and stick what you've got on top of a big patch of grass. Real roads made into a fictional track. Cake :)

[mikey_G]

I think what the devs could do is get hold of telemetry data for real life sections of road. Take, for example, the area of the M25 a little way from my house. There must be data for it somewhere.

So you get the height, width, bumps and stuff, and you have a section of road. Find a few roads that match up to make a circuit, remove all of the junctions and stick what you've got on top of a big patch of grass. Real roads made into a fictional track. Cake :)
Indeed. Wouldn't take huge amounts of time or $$$ as actually "lasering" a whole track.

[Dajmin]

Exactly. It's not a real track so there's no big licensing costs. And if the data is available online then it might even be free to use. But at the same time you get a track that is technically real and has the natural feel that real telemetry data brings.

[ajp71]

I think laser scanned club circuits are the way of the future, owners don't mind letting people do it and the result is far more accurate and available quicker than conventionally produced real or fictional tracks. Having said that they'd have to come without too great a cost otherwise the market would reduce and costs would spiral a la iRental.

[AndroidXP]

- I would pay for them, but
- It wouldn't be terribly important to have them now, and
- More fantasy tracks with maybe a bit more attention to a characteristic, bumpy surface would be fine too

[NotAnIllusion]

It's a two-fold question, really. Would I like laser scanned tracks? Sure. Would I like laser scanned tracks factoring in the current state of development of LFS? No. As it stands, if there ever are going to be lasert scanned tracks in LFS, I'd rather they were concentrated on after everything else is complete.

[frokki]

I won't stop you if you want to go scanning. :shrug:

[JJ72]

find some middle aged man and laser his forehead might also do the job, and could be a lot more cheaper.

[Gil07]

Pick a real-life scenery, preferably a hilly one, and design a circuit on it... Simple :D

Anyway, more tracks would be great, laser-scanned or not doesn't make much of a difference, as long as they're good tracks...

[Huru-aito]

If there would be a real life track put into LFS, of course it would need to be laser scanned or in some other way accurately measured and modeled. There's no need for a track that only looks like a real life one from bird's eye view.

But having a real life track in LFS is highly unlikely and therefore there's no need for any laser scanning or anything. The only exception is that if Eric doesn't realise his tracks are too smooth, showing him the measured data of a real track could result in bumpier fantasy tracks.. (= what Ian said)

Pointless poll to be honest.

[Becky Rose]

LFS does need more track content, i'm well and truly bored of the corners in LFS i've turned them far too often. It's also hard to build a series using tracks with certain characteristics - such as all short tracks, or all long trackis.

Try and put a fair sized racing calendar together and you soon realise how few tracks there are in LFS. I know there are lots of combo's, but i've turned 'that' (read: all) corner so many times already... It's probably the biggest reason why i've not raced much in a long time.

The track surface in LFS could use the odd bit of broken tarmac here and there, although I recall Scawen saying he wanted to make changes to the way LFS handles bumps so maybe we'll see more bumpy tracks later.

I think the devs would jump at getting a real life track in LFS, if it wasnt for the licence fees, even club circuits can demand huge sums of money for their virtual replication - although also a few are more willing to embrace the digital age without a payout for the margetting and public awareness it brings, finding such tracks that will add to the content of LFS isn't always easy.

It takes a long time to model a track environment, less to model a few extra combo's upon it, with real tracks we'd get less combo's per environment - and that might not really be the best thing for LFS.

In terms of track design I think Eric could use a little hand here and there, it'd be nice to see a few real hairpins like Druids at Brands, and some off-camber odd-lined corners like Russel Bend at Snetterton. I can't help but wonder if there are limitations to the design tools that prevent making corners too tight ! A few extremes of camber like Paddock Bend at Brands Hatch would also be nice.

LFS has all these things (there's a nasty tight hairpin at Aston North, and an off camber corner at T1 of Fern Bay Gold for instance), but they are an oddity linked together by lots of ordinary corner complexes, look at real tracks and what we consider conventional corners are oddities in themselves. What LFS does have is endless chicanes. Really far too many, look at Fern Bay Green - a circuit comprised of 4 chicane complexes... Everywhere you look it's chicane chicane chicane... grrrrr. I have grown to hate them...

I guess really all i'm asking for is more environments, some fresh life to a sim i've over played and more than had my monies worth, and some nasty viscious imaginative new challenges to race around (with not very many chicanes in).

[Electrik Kar]

Pointless poll to be honest.

Well, I've been speaking recently with Brendon Pywell (the guy who scanned the Eastern Creek track for rFactor)- Brendon's very passionate about offering scanned tracks for LFS, he has written to the devs about this possibility but so far there has been no response back. My real motivation for starting the poll was to see what kind of support we could drum up on his behalf, actually- if the community really felt they wanted scanned tracks, and the offer is there, then here's a chance to be vocal about it. It's of course possible, nay probable, that community petitioning won't do anything to influence the devs on this matter, but there's also a chance we might be missing a good opportunity if we do nothing. Who's to tell? :)

Of course I understand/guess that significant code will have to be written/rewritten in order to accomodate scanned tracks. My opinion is that it will be worth it. Supporting good quality RL tracks will do wonders to lift LFS out of the mainstream perception that it only deals in fantasy content, and is therefore useless as a true sim. Also, my hunch is that as more people become exposed to iRacing and other good examples of laser scanning, then the old style tracks will perhaps begin to to fall out of favour, but time will tell on that.

Anyhow, I hope this isn't a pointless thread. Keep the poll rolling... :)

[e2mustang]

i dont think we need real life tracks,its just doesnt fit into lfs style,but i would like to see more fantasy tracks made in lfs style,even a couple of new combos on existing tracks.:scratchch

[The Moose]

Anything that bring more tracks with a far more lively track surface to LFS has got to be good.

It's the only thing really letting LFS down badly at the moment. Same old tracks, and smooth as glass surfaces.

I'd love to drive Brendon's Eastern Creek track in LFS, i bet it would feel fantastic.

If it feels great in rFactor with the Caterhams i'd bet it would be twice as good in LFS in the LX's (and any other LFS cars for that matter )

[Hyperactive]

Just more tracks really. I'm past the point where anything goes. New track, even a 5 kilometer fantasy oval with giant squids and forklift monsters would be a welcomed addon imho. Just something. I don't care if it is real or fantasy, all I'm interested is how it drives. Looking at tracks I'm pretty much decided that the chances of Eric coming up with a track that could be compared to Mosport/VIR/Infineon is pretty non-existent.

More important than laser scanning is imho the track dynamics, grip levels, moisture and dynamic racing line that all can have a big change how the track drives in different conditions. Stuff that is still non-existent in sims, stuff that can have a major impact on racing, or if not a major, at least noticeable.

If something needs to be scanned, it's either Mosport or Cadwell. ;)

[Homeless_Drunk]

While I agree that laser scanned tracks would be an awesome edition I feel that the 'core' of LFS needs to be finished and perfected before such additions. Once the physics and graphical parts of the engine are finished then there would be room to concentrate on other stuff...and watching the way the test patches are going that looks like what is happening. More features and a more complete game come before tracks and cars, imo.

It doesn't really matter what we think because we don't know all that much about what is going on behind the scenes. The team is going to do it there way regardless of what we think. That's one of the quirks that makes LFS fun, we never know what is around the next corner or what will be included in the next patch. Everything that happens with this game is a surprise...we just get little hints that are buried in posts along the way...

[BullHorn]

Not going to happen because everything in LFS is fictional. :)

[Gil07]

Not going to happen because everything in LFS is fictional. :)

MRT, RAC, BF1, FBM...

[Electrik Kar]

See what I mean? :p

[unseen]

Cadwell. ;)

Right then. We`re all agreed on a laser scanned Cadwell. I`ll just nip round Eric`s house and give him the good news :thumb:

[scania]

I wan't, but I hope that it can turn on\off by host

[frokki]

I wan't, but I hope that it can turn on\off by hosterm.. why?

would you also like to turn tyre off different tyre compounds or gravel at the rallycross tracks?

[h3adbang3r]

The only noticable bumps in LFS are on the oval and South City. -1 for laser scanned tracks and +50 for moar bumps on the existing tracks.

[Ian.H]

I wan't, but I hope that it can turn on\off by host


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

WTF!? Seriously.. WTF!?

Thanks scania.. you made me laugh already this mornin and it's not even 07:00 yet :D



Regards,

Ian

[Tweaker]

Maybe he thinks laser scanners will be outfitted on the cars, therefore it warrants a server option, lol :tilt:

[Lotesdelere]

LFS does need more track content
Indeed.

I would like to see new tracks, and I mean new tracks and not only variations of existing ones, even though there also could be some.

This is especially wanted for the fast cars such as the big GTR's as it's getting boring to do always the same set of tracks, month after month, year after year, in every league.

[dougie-lampkin]

I don't particularly care if there are real tracks or not in the future. I'm never going to drive the real-life counterpart, so to me it's just the same as a fictional track. In the amount of time it would take to accurately create a real life track for LFS, several fictional tracks could be made. One or too real life tracks would be lovely of course, if they were well known. But if the dev tools are going to be released with S3, then they could be user made.

Laser scanning tracks is just a gimmick. An expensive one at that. Sure, it'll feel like the actual track, but to those who will never drive it first hand, so will one drawn out without laser guidance. If Eric learns to use the Z-axis that is :razz:

But LFS does need more tracks. Just one or two, solely to keep people interested. Maybe even just a few new layouts of existing tracks would do the trick until S2 Final/S3. There's heaps of unused layouts for the existing tracks, they just need to be joined up ;)

[T.J.]

I think this would be a good idea... Everybody driving more consentrated.
I actually think that everybody has to learn the tracks over again and not just following the optimal raceline, but also thinks about the cars suspension too.

[Juls]

For me the best thing would be pseudo-randomly generated bumps.
When you select the track, you give a few parameters, like average bump height, average bump length, average bump width, and a large number which is used to seed the pseudo-random algorithm.

And it takes the track and generate bumps at loading time, slightly moving track points. And the large seed number ensures that bumps are the same for everyone with the same parameters. Using the AI path it can generate very realistic bumps you get on a real track (more often in turns, oriented according to path...etc).

And using different seeds give different bumps-> infinity of variation for the tracks. Every set of parameters give a unique track,everyone has the same on a given server.

[Shotglass]

- I would pay for them, but
- It wouldn't be terribly important to have them now, and
- More fantasy tracks with maybe a bit more attention to a characteristic, bumpy surface would be fine too

couldnt agree more
i really only care about more tracks more bumps and more interesting corners... fictional or not i dont give a damn

This is especially wanted for the fast cars such as the big GTR's as it's getting boring to do always the same set of tracks, month after month, year after year, in every league.

dont you run a server thats been stuck at as national for almost 3 years now?

[Electrik Kar]

In the amount of time it would take to accurately create a real life track for LFS, several fictional tracks could be made.

Are you sure? It seems logical to me that it would actually be faster to scan a track than to make one up from scratch, especially at the level of detail that a decent scan could provide.

from wiki

In cases where a real-world equivalent of a model exists, it is much faster to scan the real-world object than to manually create a model using 3D modeling software. Frequently, artists sculpt physical models of what they want and scan them into digital form rather than directly creating digital models on a computer.

Perhaps Brendon will drop by sometime to post (and be able to go into details)- but for now, if anyone hasn't heard of this technology before and would like to find out more, there's some nice info on the development of the Eastern Creek track, over here (http://www.bobstrackbuilder.net/laser_scanning.aspx). Going by what's written there, it took him roughly two days to gather all the necessary scanned data for the track- (all up a couple of months of part time work from beginning to end, including writing the modifications to his track building software to accomodate point cloud data, refining tools, seeking permission from track owner(?) etc...).

[dougie-lampkin]

I think that the wiki means that it's quicker to laser scan and draw a real track, then to try and draw without a laser scan :shrug:

Of course, if Eric makes the tracks by carefully planning each one out first, it may take longer than a laser scan. But maybe he makes 'em up as he goes along like me, IDK :)

[Luke.S]

We need the nubergring laser scanned. It would have finished being scanned just before s3 is released.

[Kid222]

Yeah, laser scanned tracks would be fine, if there's some guy in back, who have done all the job and is offering them to devs (otherwise it would be too much expensive and it would be probably added as paid content or it could raise cost of license).

I am all for that and i'm also going repeat not only myself, but also all people who posted it in this thread: Yes, we need new tracks like nothing else.

(And i see that this discussion is slowly turning up into something, what i've witnessed lot of times here. :) )

[Piddy]

iRacing makes a huge step forward with delivery of accurate tracks, an excellent physics model and great netcode and will be the dominating sim for the near future. Unfortunately this may stifle competition, especially as people get “locked in” to iRacing; when it comes time to renew they will be faced with either losing all their cars/tracks, or pay another year’s subscription. I’m no iRacing hater, in fact I think it’s the best thing to happen in the scene for some time, but I would hate to see the demise of other racing sims.

I would like to see LFS be more competitive and there are two things that I can help with:
1. The use of laser scanned tracks.
2. The ability to add more 3rd party track content.

The Eastern Creek project was a “Proof of Concept” using cheap laser equipment and rushed development tools, but even so it’s been a great success and is now recognised as one of the best tracks in rFactor. To appreciate it fully you need to drive on it using a car with stiff suspension and with the RealFeel plugin installed and set up correctly (sometimes a pain in rF). I’ve been a LFS player long before rF and I would say that LFS has greater fidelity of feeling and would benefit even more from the laser scanned tracks.

As for Real vs Fictional, I would agree that a very well made fictional track can be just as good as a laser scanned real life one, but I also think the time to make it would be comparable, in costs, to scanning one (using my methods). Incorporating the minor details such as the way camber changes through a corner, small bumps, or the rough areas under braking can be very time consuming. No offence to Eric and his building skills as I understand the enormity of creating many tracks with great levels of detail, but the surface variation you currently see in LFS is nothing compared to what you get with a laser scanned one and the driving feeling is very noticeable. This is not a problem unique to LFS either, all driving sims seem to suffer the same fate.

With BTB I developed a way to create detailed track meshes from the laser scanned data in much less time (cost) than other laser scanned projects. There are more in the pipeline but none of this will come to LFS without the devs support.

The second item will no doubt be controversial since it will mean an influx of tracks built with varying quality. But the modding scene also generates some of the best tracks around for rFactor and you find that people naturally gravitate towards the better ones.

I have written to the devs in the hope they might open up the track building scene but have been around LFS long enough to know they work to their own agenda and are always busy. I would still encourage that people continue to let them know politely your feelings about having additional content. Hopefully we can open up some means of getting more, very detailed work into LFS.

[thisnameistaken]

Where's the "I've no idea whether laser-scanning of tracks is just a gimmick or not, so I don't know" option?

Where's the "Plz laz0r scan Sussex + maek it liek w all roads 4 cruizin" option?

Poll sucks tbh.

[birder]

it'd be nice to see a few real hairpins like Druids at Brands, and some off-camber odd-lined corners like Russel Bend at Snetterton. I can't help but wonder if there are limitations to the design tools that prevent making corners too tight ! A few extremes of camber like Paddock Bend at Brands Hatch would also be nice

I fully agree with you, if we cant have real tracks have tracks made up from parts of real tracks so no fees like Brandserton or Snett Park

Becky, add to your list "The mountain" at Cadwell Park, I once did a charity event using my 2001 Focus 4x4 World rally Car to take passangers and when i asked what he thought one passanger said

"Just fit a toilet roll holder to the passangers side for when you go over the mountain"

I always smile going over that corner since.

[aroX123]

Plz laz0r scan Sussex + maek it liek w all roads 4 cruizin"
:D Ay loev teh inglish

[Electrik Kar]

Kev, there probably should have been another poll option along the lines of 'I haven't driven on laser scanned tracks, so I can't say'- but I couldn't work out how to edit the poll. No idea what your other suggestion is though.. :scratchch

I haven't driven the Eastern Creek track or the iRacing ones, I'm just faithful that laser scanning will be a big thing in the years to come. I don't see the point of having a wonderful tyre physics model when the actual track surface is so simplistic- these things must be two sides of the same coin imo. Laser scanning also looks like a fairly fast way to get good results, with a bonus of having something accurately based in reality. Just these two points alone (if acted on) should go some way to helping satisfy much of the criticism currently being levelled at LFS- no new content, and no real content.

I think Piddy's offering LFS something great, I would be dissapointed if the community and devs did nothing to support him.

[AstroBoy]

Can we laser scan my butt if we are laser scaning stuff???:razz:

[Piddy]

Can we laser scan my butt if we are laser scaning stuff???:razz:

Sure, I'm betting many people already run rings around it. :razz:

[wsinda]

I think two issues are being mixed up. One is that LFS has imaginary tracks, the other is that the tracks are too smooth. Both points may decrease realism and immersion. Laser scanning is supposed to solve both, but I wonder which issue is most important.

LFS only has imaginary tracks. Instead of binning them, is it possible to increase the variation in surfaces, with the help of some automated tools? Or do people simply want real-life tracks, and is laser scanning a quick way to get results?

[Tony Pearce]

The lack of real-life tracks is the main reason I stop playing LFS for extended periods of time.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've posted in threads requesting real-life track content. I'm not expecting the dev's to create them, just let someone else do it.

Piddy's post is a perfect example of this. He's a guy who seems to have the know-how and gear to get the job done.

I've personally been involved in the creation and testing of real life tracks (Bathurst for SCGT was the first I took photo's and drove/tested) and would be more than happy to devote a weekend to do so again.

I think I'm going to give iRacing a go. :banghead:

[Electrik Kar]

but I wonder which issue is most important.

For me it's more of a quality issue, coupled with a small degree of concern about the general slowness of content development. I'm not that worried about having a real track (others are though), but I would like to see a potential increase in track detail, and I would like to see a potential increase in tracks. Ultimately, I would love to see a real track or two in LFS as well.

As someone said, you could take bits and pieces from everywhere, and stitch a track together, I think some of the LFS ones are already inspired by segments of RL tracks. If you wanted to do the same thing via the scanning method, and go around choosing different bits of road/track- that would be possible I guess, but it'd probably be much easier and faster to go set up at one track and do the whole thing there in one or two sittings. Imaginary or not, it comes down to time, resources, skill, and technology. In the case of RL tracks, permission and location are additional factors.

I don't suggest scanning is the only option for obtaining better tracks, but it seems a good, practical option. The fact that it's potentially able to kill so many birds with one stone seems a significant bonus.

edit:

LFS only has imaginary tracks. Instead of binning them, is it possible to increase the variation in surfaces, with the help of some automated tools?

It's the current crop of 'real' tracks in other sims which probably need to be binned, because laser scanning has raised the accuracy bar.

[Technique]

Bump.. Great interview on SRT Piddy :) I figured I'd bump this thread because your post really deserves more attention. It would really be nice to have some quality content come from of our talented community members.

[Electrik Kar]

Thanks for the heads up Technique :)

I've put up a link to the interview on the first post of this thread.

[flymike91]

I'm glad its not that way. EA has a knack for ruining great things. Anyone play the Juiced demo before EA got hold of it? I don't want to be collecting "NOS points" or earning money for LFS races. I'm excited about iRacing but not that it is subscription based. Sounds like hyped up bull to me. Surely there is a way to add more texture to the existing tracks without laser scanning?

[nihil]

Laser scanned? I would like to have higher resolution elevation data available from a google earth type application. I would then like to be able to select an area of land, trace out a track or route, and then import it into the simulator of my choice. The sim would then automatically generate a track, which could then be elaborated on by hand if I so wished.

It would help if sim developers would actually start sharing tracks rather than reinventing the wheel (so to speak...) everytime 'Joe Simcrafter' fancies creating the next gen driving experience....

[Crashgate3]

And I'd like a big pair of boobs full of beer.


You're never going to get anything where you can just select an area anywhere in the world and instantly get heightmap data of anywhere near a resolution good enough for use in sims (trust me, I've tried), and especially not for free.

[Ahriman4891]

- I would pay for them, but
- It wouldn't be terribly important to have them now, and
- More fantasy tracks with maybe a bit more attention to a characteristic, bumpy surface would be fine too

+1. Make existing track surfaces higher-res (the little bump at the last turn of Aston Cadet is the best feature of the track next to the corkscrew, especially in an MRT).

However, the fact that the devs have been offered a laser-scanned real track for free and turned it down is really sad.

[Boris Lozac]

I have to say that it would be great to have at least one real track in LFS, BUT, only if it's laser scanned, yes, to have the most realistic presentation of the real one, it sure wouldn't hurt. Good fictional tracks are also great but why would i mind watching some video on Knockhill with Formula BMW and then replicating it in LFS :shrug:
But the way LFS is going right now, i don't think this will become a reality.. :( We'll get the chinese patch in July probably, and then a "cockpit's patch" in Christmass... :tilt: or there would be an anouncment that cockpits couldn't make it in that patch and they will be ready in July 2009, and by that time i would have summer holiday on Mars, and people will be flying their cars like in Fifth Element... :tilt:

[Mikey]

Piddy, first of all thanks for eastern creek. Second if the devs dont want to open up the game to outside editors, how about for the community to work with the devs and give them the content to put in game. I.e devs set a format of the track to be imported say 3d Max, community provides it. Devs review, comment and finally release it when both partys are happy. That way they maintain complete control.

I remember when Driver Emporium or ASS first opened that there was going to be a outside car added created by Sketchi. But it all seem to fall apart.

[nihil]

You're never going to get anything where you can just select an area anywhere in the world and instantly get heightmap data of anywhere near a resolution good enough for use in sims (trust me, I've tried), and especially not for free.

"Oi, Leonardo, wtf is that?"

""Well, you wind it up and when you release it, it travels up into the air. Vertically."

"Right...."

"People will fly in these one day"

"Wanker"

[Chaos]

I used to work at the second largest/most known/etc. racetrack in our country Autodrom Most (http://www.autodrom-most.cz/en/race-track/) (it was the first to be built, but now is secondary because it does not correspond to the latest safety rules of FIA / FIM). It has some very interesting corners (especially the "old version", a small chicane after the start/finish straight followed by a long lefthander, in most cars taken at full throttle, usual speed there is way over 200 km/h (120 mph)) and the drivers say the whole track has its specific "flow" and its more interresting than the GP track in Brno...

It is now 3 years back, when I went to the owners of the track and asked them what they think about getting their track in LFS. They were exited about it and were all for it. Their only condition was that the track has to be modeled as it stands, with all banners etc. Otherwise no fee, it would be for FREE.
I told this to the devs, even got them a very accurate GPS data of the inside/outside/ideal line of the track, but they said maybe sometime in the future... Years passed, the track has just recently been made for rF and the owners lost their interest in getting the track in LFS.

I call for new track for a very long time now... LFS has become boring for me for the same reasons Becky posted. I drove all the corners too many times already and when I organise a league I just have a strong feeling of deja-vu when selecting the tracks for the next league... I don't know the intentions of the devs, but letting such an opportunity to slip through their hands is a bit sad... I just hope they will awaken soon and realize that
LFS needs some new content (tracks especially) to keep the people interested.

Eric does indeed a great job modeling the tracks, but he still is alone and because I helped the guy who made the Most racetrack in rF (http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Autodrom%20Most) I know its very VERY HARD work to make a good track. Opening LFS to free modding is a way to hell, I agree. But I just don't understand why the devs can't let people make tracks, use them offline only and choose only the best into a official patch for online use...

[The Very End]

Sorry for bumping this thread, but I just want to throw out my opinion.

LFS don't need fancy laser scanned tracks, nor real brand cars.
To me LFS is good with fictionally contest, that may be based on real stuff.

What lfs needs now is new tracks. The car selection is good as it is now, more rallycross cars and it would be awesome, but it's not a must. I remember that we got this new config no SO, but IMO a extra config doesn't help for more than 1 month.
We need a new envoriment, with different configs, so it can bring some good life back to LFS, where people had to learn the tracks, and just not doing hotlapping all the time since they have driven every darn combo xxxx times.

LFS is atm a big racing game, with a lot of tracks, but there's been no new tracks for, around 4 years now? - and it's time that something happens with the track seletion.
Can't the devs show what they have done about new tracks the latest years? :p I know they did big updates to SO and BL, but if that's the only thing that has happend on 4 years, then I would be sad :(

[migf1]

@Chaos: that's shocking news, it was indeed a great opportunity for the community to have at least one rl track (and from what I see in rf it's a great track).
I don't understand why the devs still keep such a negative attitude against rl tracks (even when they are offered just to dictate the community -or a small talented fraction of it- for the track making instead of making them themselves). I respect their decisions though!

I beleive that rl tracks are essential for LFS future, since things now are not the same as they were some years ago. The competition nowdays is a lot stronger (re-birth of rf with the real feel plugin and proper car physics, i-racing, race07) and "leaks" from lfs to those sims happen quite more often imho and also more newcomers are attracted from those other sims. I think the devs realise that and I beleive sooner or later it's invetible to include at least a couple of rl tracks in LFS (laser scanned or not).

[Crashgate3]

"Oi, Leonardo, wtf is that?"

""Well, you wind it up and when you release it, it travels up into the air. Vertically."

"Right...."

"People will fly in these one day"

"Wanker"

Note the 'not for free' part. You can already get heightmap data of most places in the world (although nowhere near good enough to just lay a track on top of it in a sim), but you have to pay through the nose for it.

[marzman]

Laser scanned? I would like to have higher resolution elevation data available from a google earth type application. I would then like to be able to select an area of land, trace out a track or route, and then import it into the simulator of my choice. The sim would then automatically generate a track, which could then be elaborated on by hand if I so wished.

It would help if sim developers would actually start sharing tracks rather than reinventing the wheel (so to speak...) everytime 'Joe Simcrafter' fancies creating the next gen driving experience....
Buy SimCity. You can even drive around in your city ;)
I drove all the corners too many times already and when I organise a league I just have a strong feeling of deja-vu when selecting the tracks for the next league... I don't know the intentions of the devs, but letting such an opportunity to slip through their hands is a bit sad... I just hope they will awaken soon and realize that
LFS needs some new content (tracks especially) to keep the people interested.
Isn't that normal in racingleagues? Schumager didn't moan he had to drive Monza year after year ;) (not saying i would not appreciate new content)

[Chaos]

Isn't that normal in racingleagues? Schumager didn't moan he had to drive Monza year after year ;) (not saying i would not appreciate new content)
True, it is normal, but he drove there one (ok, maybe a little more) weekend in a year... and there are many MANY more leagues/races in LFS in one year then (in) one F1 season...

[migf1]

[snip]

Isn't that normal in racingleagues? Schumager didn't moan he had to drive Monza year after year ;) (not saying i would not appreciate new content)
Why should he? He was driving one of the most famous tracks ever in motorsports!

[xaotik]

Why should he? He was driving one of the most famous tracks ever in motorsports!

Not to mention he was being paid as well...

[migf1]

And paid well too :D

[haha360]

what the hell is a LASER SCANNED TRACK!

[dougie-lampkin]

You scan the track with an...ermm...laser, so that it's the same size and shape in-game as the real one. The laser picks up the actual track, and then when you upload the results to a PC, it ultra-magically converts it into a track for a game. :nod:

[marzman]

Imagine if someone produced a 100 million dollar budget racing sim. Laser scanned tracks, real tracks, new physics model, all the requested features, ..... That won't happen, because racing is not that popular.

Isn't that what iRacing is? With a bigger marked it would be cheaper for the consumer but i don't think development of iracing was cheap (i don't know if it was "milions" but i don't think it was cheap compared to other "games").
http://qtl.sf.net/close.pnghttp://babylon.com/favicon.icohttp://qtl.sf.net/copy.pnghttp://qtl.sf.net/say.pnghttp://www.google.com/favicon.ico (http://search.babylon.com/?babsrc=qtl&q=l)http://search.yahoo.com/favicon.ico (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=l)http://www.flickr.com/favicon.ico (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=l)http://www.youtube.com/favicon.ico (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=l&search=Search)http://www.amazon.com/favicon.ico (http://www.amazon.com/gp/associates/link-types/searchbox.html?tag=qtl0e-20&creative=374001&campaign=211041&adid=0NM007JMM5JYDBDT13Y6&mode=blended&keyword=l)

[Sternendaal]

Isn't that what iRacing is? With a bigger marked it would be cheaper for the consumer but i don't think development of iracing was cheap (i don't know if it was "milions" but i don't think it was cheap compared to other "games").
http://qtl.sf.net/close.pnghttp://babylon.com/favicon.icohttp://qtl.sf.net/copy.pnghttp://qtl.sf.net/say.pnghttp://www.google.com/favicon.ico (http://search.babylon.com/?babsrc=qtl&q=l)http://search.yahoo.com/favicon.ico (http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=l)http://www.flickr.com/favicon.ico (http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=l)http://www.youtube.com/favicon.ico (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=l&search=Search)http://www.amazon.com/favicon.ico (http://www.amazon.com/gp/associates/link-types/searchbox.html?tag=qtl0e-20&creative=374001&campaign=211041&adid=0NM007JMM5JYDBDT13Y6&mode=blended&keyword=l)

I've read somewhere that they spend around 16 million dollar

[Fetzo]

eastern creek is a impressive piece of work. i really like to see this track or something similar in lfs.

seems that there are mixed opinions about this topic in this forum, but i am pretty sure, that most of the "ney-sayers" haven't driven a single lap on eastern creek. they don't know what they are missing.

keep up the good work. i am looking forward to your next release. if not for lfs, then for rfactor.

i think laser scanning will be the most effective, fastest way a building a track in the near future. it just costs money, but time is money too......

p.s.:
i am sure, that most of us have done more laps on blackwood than schumacher in monza.......

[CharlieW5025]

LFS is known to have some of the most realistic car physics, having a real track would imcrease the realism and i think that it puts the hard work in making the cars realistic to good use.

If you're in to fantasy tracks then trackmania is what you should be playing...

[The Very End]

I've read somewhere that they spend around 16 million dollar

16 Millions? :schwitz: I got to see the source (wrong spellled?) before beliving that.