speedometer while tyres spinning

[letitb]

What i find stupid is that when the tyres are spinning on the spot (burnout/brakey) the speedmoter stays at 0km....
If the tyres are spinning y isnt the speedometere showing how fast they are spinning..... is there anyway to change this like a mod??

[AndroidXP]

Currently we have the benefit of a perfect speedo, which indeed doesn't exist in RL (closest would be GPS speed measuring). I know that Scawen tries to create a sim as close as possible to RL, but IMO the speedo is kinda a moot point.

But this has been suggested a few times already and besides that, this belongs to "Improvement Suggestions".


And to your original question: no you cannot change this with a "mod" . Only Scawen can.

[orre]

In real cars a speedometer is based on the wheels that not have driving.It's only on awd car it can look stupid

[AndroidXP]

Yes, for the case of a burnout. But if you lock all wheels it should show 0 in all cars.

[micha1980de]

In real cars a speedometer is based on the wheels that not have driving.It's only on awd car it can look stupid

then how about getting into physics and compute the wheel spin to roll of im cm² and multiply this with pi root this with the speed of light and add the leght of your nose...

after the compilate is ready you can post it, so scawen doesn't need to do waste time on this.

wan't the high nose issue solved .....

[mrodgers]

In real cars a speedometer is based on the wheels that not have driving.It's only on awd car it can look stupid
Most cars, at least over here in the States, no matter the country of origin, the speedometer is connected to the transmission output shaft. If not then it IS the drive wheels. I've never seen or driven a car that the speedometer doesn't measure during wheelspin. Is it different in other countries? Even with electronics rather than a mechanical connection, it displays during wheelspin.

[Tweaker]

wan't the high nose issue solved .....
YESSSS!!!!!!!!!

That is what I've been wanting more and more over all of the suggestions really...... tired of that high nose stuff :(

[micha1980de]

well at lest when it comes down to competition, i'd like not seeing setups using this bug...

[micha1980de]

Most cars, at least over here in the States, no matter the country of origin, the speedometer is connected to the transmission output shaft. If not then it IS the drive wheels. I've never seen or driven a car that the speedometer doesn't measure during wheelspin. Is it different in other countries? Even with electronics rather than a mechanical connection, it displays during wheelspin.

here in the old world the speed is mostly measured on one of the front wheels.
so if you have a rwd here and spin it up, there will be no speed displayed.
while i think it'll be more intelligent to use the abs (Anti blocking system) for measurement of speed since new abs systems measure the spin of all wheels independently, and more accurate i guess since abs is a system critc safety feature.
so it has to work properly.

[dave4002000]

here in the old world the speed is mostly measured on one of the front wheels.
so if you have a rwd here and spin it up, there will be no speed displayed.

that's an interesting fact...i've replaced many transmissions and there's always a connection (either mechanical or electrical) that outputs directly to the speedometer.

i never would have thought it would be any different in other countries :shrug:

well, i just fulfilled my "learn something new everyday", time to got to bed :D

abs (Anti blocking system)

are you referring to anti-lock braking system?

[micha1980de]

right, was too lazy to google for it.

cause here it's named "Anti Blockier System" so the best was just to transalte word-wise.

since i'm no mechanic (yet) but what my friend told me about cars was pretty interessting thou.

[herki]

i have driven fwd and rwd cars and everytime speed was measured at the driven wheels... i would say it differs from car to car - there are even few(very few), which use GPS for speedmeasurement .. dunno how it'll work in tunnels, perhaps they have a backup system :shrug:

[NotAnIllusion]

Here's what I find strange: The speedo reads whatever the current speed of the car (not any of the wheels) is relative to the ground. I tested this by flipping the XFG over on to its roof at pace, holding clutch and brake down. Result was that the wheels stopped rotating long before the car actually stopped moving, but as long as the car itself was moving regardless of the locked wheels, the speedo readout was exactly the same as the car's motion in relation to the ground.

So
i) the speedo didn't read anything from the wheels (because all wheels were locked and the speedo didn't read zero)

ii) nor the transmission (because after trying this more than once, the speedo readout always reduced and became zero at the precise moment the car's relative motion to the ground became zero, and surely this has nothing to do with the transmission (the car is on its roof))

iii) where does the speedo get its reading ??

[ATHome]

Here's what I find strange: The speedo reads whatever the current speed of the car (not any of the wheels) is relative to the ground. I tested this by flipping the XFG over on to its roof at pace, holding clutch and brake down. Result was that the wheels stopped rotating long before the car actually stopped moving, but as long as the car itself was moving regardless of the locked wheels, the speedo readout was exactly the same as the car's motion in relation to the ground.

So
i) the speedo didn't read anything from the wheels (because all wheels were locked and the speedo didn't read zero)

ii) nor the transmission (because after trying this more than once, the speedo readout always reduced and became zero at the precise moment the car's relative motion to the ground became zero, and surely this has nothing to do with the transmission (the car is on its roof))

iii) where does the speedo get its reading ??

You could see it as a GPS Reading in real life. In LFS I think it's the speed difference beetween the ground and the car.

[Letin-Klanen]

my volvo 360 is fr drive but the spedo is on the left front wheel

[AndroidXP]

...The discussion is about how it works in RL, not how it is in LFS. Like I said in my first post, the closest we could get to how it's done in LFS is via GPS.

LFS has the advantage that it is a computer program using a coordinate system. We simply know the speed because we are the "god" of this system and we calculate everything. ;)

[NotAnIllusion]

Ah but "we are god" phenomenon is hardly simulating reality. I'm not sure if I'll go as far as saying that's cheating, but the speed should be based on a realistically measurable dynamic value just as in real life. :p

[Secondaries]

my volvo 360 is fr drive but the spedo is on the left front wheel

Um, no it isn't. You might have a gear there but that's probably for ABS. I AM a real life mechanic, and every single car, truck, SUV, 18-wheeler, van, etc, has the speedometer drive gear connected to the transmission output shaft. Only one car have I ever seen NOT set up this way, and that is the 24/6/80Z. Those cars have the speedo gear connected to the differential (which STILL reads the same).

[Letin-Klanen]

Im sure the spedo is on the left front wheel because I have changed it one time. but the gearbox is in the back in the "volvo 360 gl 87mod". And its no abs on this car

[wheel4hummer]

What do you mean by "wheel"? The hub, brake rotor? ......

[Letin-Klanen]

It goes thru the hub from the inside and connects to the cap in senter of the "wheel". I dont know the word for it, sorry. maby i can find a picture of it on the web

[Vendetta]

LFS is just ahead of its time. :D

[ajp71]

Sounds like a brake pad warning light sensor fitting to me. I'd guess the speedo would read off the driven wheels or diff/transmission. Certainly a Morgan has its sensor somewhere on the back of the car (so is effected by wheelspin) and IIRC the Mini I took apart last year had a speedo cable that connected somewhere on the rear wheels (so not the driven ones, I may be wrong but I think it ran through the car parralel to the handbrake cable).

As for a speedo in LFS, it really isn't important. IRL single seaters do not have a speedo, some GT cars will but the tachometer is still the only gauge the driver will be frequently focusing on.

[Fonnybone]

yep, i've also only seen speedo cables connected to the transmission.
Nothing to do with wheels in my experience. Last time we had this
conversation, someone ended up saying he had 4 wheel handbrake and the war was on lol

[NotAnIllusion]

Lol that's nothing yet.. my 8-wheeler has a 6-wheel handrake! :D

[Matrixi]

I dunno about how FWD cars measure the speed, but I noticed my speedometer rocketing up when I was drifting the other day in my S13. So that would seem the speedo sensor is in the transmission, not on the front wheel.

Oh, and I know that atleast in S15 Silvias have the speedo sensor in the rear diff :)

[micha1980de]

so as we all can see that every car developer cooks it's own soup...

vote for thread close...

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

yep, i've also only seen speedo cables connected to the transmission.
Nothing to do with wheels in my experience. Last time we had this
conversation, someone ended up saying he had 4 wheel handbrake and the war was on lol

That wasn't the only thing that started that war :rolleyes:

Being a fan of immersion, I think this really needs to be changed if for no other reason than LFS is supposed to mimic RL. Come on purists. The vast vast majority of cars would have speedo readings affected by wheelspin and/or lockup, therefore this needs to be part of LFS. Even Viper Racing got that one right.

[Jakg]

the only modern racing game ive tried with it in was RBR (although i could be wrong) i think it would be good though, as you cant be a true simulator without imatating RL were ever possible, also, i may now virtually nothing about coding, but how hard would it be to "Create" a speedo reading from how fast a wheel is rotating around the shaft?

[Fonnybone]

No one said it was hard, but it's something that must be worked on
in the first place, so it takes time and a lot of other stuff also take
time. Getting an object velocity in LFS is much faster/easier. Just
looking at OutSim info you can figure out the car's velocity, because
that's what LFS displays, velocity (true speed), not how fast your rear
wheels are turning. That would require additional code for most cars to
deal with wheel size difference, but it sure isn't impossible. There could
be an option between 'relative' or 'absolute' speed.

[ajp71]

It's a nice feature but why on earth do we need it?

No true 'purist' will want to run a speedo in the single seaters and will hardly be looking at it anywhere but at the ends of straights where it can actually be useful to tell you how good a run you had out of the last corner.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Fine then, all the cars to which it applies should have it...

[Batterypark]

(Anti blocking system)

That would be useful for blue flag situations :)

[der butz]

okay, my 2 1/2 cents now:

I think what matters in the game AND rl is rpm! Most of the really fast race cars do not even have a speedo, the drivers just look/listen to the engine. Many cars only have gear digits and shifting lights, that's about it!
When I end a turn I try to keep revs on a good level in order to accellerate faster, and this mostly results (!!!) in comparable... (comparative, comp... whatever) the same speed.

If it was possible for car engineers to build in something like real accurate gps speedos, I'm pretty sure they would do!

fyi: 72 VW Van : rwd and front speedo hub
84 and 86 Mini: fwd, hub somewhere at the front :smileypul

[B2B@300]

If it was possible for car engineers to build in something like real accurate gps speedos, I'm pretty sure they would do!

No they wouldn't something called a profit margin :scratchch and until the majority of consumers demanded such a feature :p or the oposition offered one :razz:

My folks have a GPS not particularly high end one either and they have commented on its accuracy in measuring speed :) but I guess you couldn't garantee a signal from enough satelite 100% of the time...

Sorry officer I didn't realise I was doing 160 in a 60 zone :smileypul my speedo just says searching for connection :D

Having said that I read an articale a month back that was suggesting that all new cars be fitted with a GPS and be linked to the countries traffic control system :Looking_a automaticly issuing a warning if you speed, and if you continue to speed for a set length of time it will automaticly issue a speeding fine :x and notify the police :shy: I believe such a system is either being proposed or already being implemented in Japan :shrug:

[der butz]

in your face, japan! :D

You're right though, as long as gps costs so much no manufacturer will build a speedo like this! especially when the car's supposed to be cheap.

But to get back to the point, speedos just don't belong into a GT racecar IMO. So it doesn't matter if the speed is measured "correctly" (by vectors)or by wheelspin.

[Qvarnis]

Well, my Nissan shows speed from rear wheels :shy: whilst burnout it shows 87 to me...


edit: oh yeah, forgot, km/h

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Bottom line: ALMOST all cars show wheel speed, usually measured at the trans. This therefore should be how the applicable cars in LFS should act. Gives good feedback on what's happening at the drivewheels too!

[Dethred]

Every car I have ever seen and/or worked on has had the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) located in the differential. My Acura Legend had its sensor located in the differential, and I have shown a picture of it in a previous thread. My friend's BMW 525i was a PITA to get to as the rear support member for his rear differential blocked easy access to his VSS... also located inside the differential.

There is no debating how the speed is measured on modern cars with analogue speedometers, the debate can only be about how accurate the devs want the game. At this rate I wouldn't plan on having this option in S3 final with how much stuff they need to add in to make the game remotely competitive over the next few years.

[e15exa]

In real cars a speedometer is based on the wheels that not have driving.It's only on awd car it can look stupid

Thats actually incorrect in RL the speedometer tells you the speed of the gearbox (Powered wheels) I have a Skyline Gts-t and have many times seen it of the Clock on a Burnout.

[AleksejBASOwarrior]

Currently we have the benefit of a perfect speedo, which indeed doesn't exist in RL (closest would be GPS speed measuring). I know that Scawen tries to create a sim as close as possible to RL, but IMO the speedo is kinda a moot point.

But this has been suggested a few times already and besides that, this belongs to "Improvement Suggestions".


And to your original question: no you cannot change this with a "mod" . Only Scawen can.


:) Some times Im sure that speedo lies.... I going so fast in some corner and in sector i got some bad time...:scratchch

[ajp71]

Bottom line: ALMOST all cars show wheel speed, usually measured at the trans. This therefore should be how the applicable cars in LFS should act. Gives good feedback on what's happening at the drivewheels too!

This is complete bollocks, one of the small single seaters I'm involved with has a full data logging system and dash with an electronic analogue tach as well as sevral digital readouts. Guess what we don't have one of them set to a speed readout (which we could do very easilly as it is still logged) instead lap times and various oil and water temperature readouts are far more important in a racing car.

The Bottom line is: ALMOST all racing cars do not have a speed readout.

[Forbin]

Originally posted on 24 May, 2004 on RSC (and slightly modified):

My motorcycle (2002 Kawasaki Super Sherpa) has a magnet of some sort in the front hub that sends electrical pulses at a rate equal to the angular velocity of the front wheel, and from this the actual speed is calculated.

[vari]

This is complete bollocks

No it's not? He didn't mention race cars. :scratchch

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

This is complete bollocks, one of the small single seaters I'm involved with has a full data logging system and dash with an electronic analogue tach as well as sevral digital readouts. Guess what we don't have one of them set to a speed readout (which we could do very easilly as it is still logged) instead lap times and various oil and water temperature readouts are far more important in a racing car.

The Bottom line is: ALMOST all racing cars do not have a speed readout.

:D Indeed I was NOT referring to race cars, which is why I said all the applicable cars in LFS should behave that way, knowing full well race cars clearly do not.

[overclocked412]

One vote for me for a speedo by wheel rotation speed. I personally would like to see how fast my drive wheels are moving, reguardless of traction.

Anyways, well I guess there are clearly different kinds of racing. I would want a speedo in anything I drive. Heck, I even had one installed on my mountain bike I had/have.

[Hartge H3]

in the older days (alfasud bmw 2002,e21)the speedo used to be connected at the gearbox.with electronic speedos bmw e30s had it inside the differential and many other makers used the same technique in europe.its the same techinque with the driveshaft but inside the diff the senson beeing magnetic holds the little metals floating in the oil. :thumb: practical . i dont know about asian makers or u.s though

[Rotary]

yep, i've also only seen speedo cables connected to the transmission.
Nothing to do with wheels in my experience. Last time we had this
conversation, someone ended up saying he had 4 wheel handbrake and the war was on lol

No no no, he said all Japanese cars have a 20/80 hand brake which is why the drift so good... he made that conclusion based on watching drifting videos and I dare say his family just humoured his stupidity as he swore to the death that his dad and bro, who are the best mechanics in the world, said it was true.

:D :pillepall

All cars I have ever owned have had their speedo read from the output shaft in the gearbox... most of which I have had to replace the cables for. And I'm 99% sure that all cars I've been in with wheels spinning were similar.

It's fun having a speedo read 160km/h when you're only doing about 30km/h sideways on a farm paddock... lol... :D

[LePimpMyRoller]

In real cars a speedometer is based on the wheels that not have driving.It's only on awd car it can look stupid

nope ... i rememeber, a hundret years ago :-)
my old audi 80, FWD, 90 bhp ... had the speedo on front-tyres.
hitting the gas in 3rd gear on snow resulted in 50-120km/h in about 1 sec. without, kick in the ass and without real acceleration :-)
i think its a thing different between each manufaturer and model generation.
in my actual car i didnt have tried. RWD-beast without ESP, and i am not willing to end my life just finding out what the speedo does :-)

[MyBoss]

In real cars a speedometer is based on the wheels that not have driving.It's only on awd car it can look stupid


Not in my Mazda 626 front wheel drive.