LFSBC Season 2 Calendar

[J@tko]

We are pleased to announce the LFSBC Season 2 Calendar.

Race Calendar
Pre-Season get-together - 26/7/08 - various
Round 1 - 2/8/08 - BL1 - XFG/XRG – 16 laps
Round 2 - 16/8/08 - FE1 - UF1 – 30 laps
Round 3 - 30/8/08 - KY2 - TBO – 12 laps
Round 4 - 13/9/08 - AS3 – FOX – 2 x 7laps (half points for each) - Second Race is Random Reverse Grid.
Round 5 - 27/9/08 - AS1 - Baby FBM (+45% Restriction) - 32 laps
Round 6 - 11/10/08 - BL2R – XFG/XRG – 20 laps
Round 7 - 25/10/08 - AS4 – GT2 (enduro) – 1 hour w/pit stop

Format of the rounds
Saturday week before: FP1
Sunday week before: FP2 (times TBA for each round)
Race Saturday afternoon: FP3

6.55pm UTC - All competitors on Server please
7.00 UTC - Qualifying (20 mins) starts
7.25 UTC - Lag Start
7.30 UTC - Race Proper starts (30 or so minutes, or 1 hour for enduro)

BST=UTC+1
CET=UTC+2
Eastern Europe (EEST :shrug:)=UTC+3
Eastern=UTC-4 (is this correct?)
Central=UTC-5 ("")


If you need any more information, post either in this thread, here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=43596), or PM me (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=165968), Dekojester (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=122006)or JO53PHS (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=174785):)

[Stefani24]

cet=bst+1?

[hyntty]

cet=bst+1?

err no, because... Well it just isn't. Timezones are one of those things no-one understands.

[J@tko]

cet=bst+1?
Your post was posted at 7.34pm BST - so work it out from there :)

[dekojester]

Right, this is why I use UTC/GMT/Zulu.

d

[J@tko]

Right, this is why I use UTC/GMT/Zulu.

d
Edited the OP to reflect Deko's wise words.

[dougie-lampkin]

It's even more confusing now :confused:

Why not just use martian time altogether? :razz:

[racer hero]

What happened to the FBM Mini, series?

[JO53PHS]

It will be starting after LFSBC Season 2 :)

[TomMK]

Some good combos there.

[Stefani24]

I told ya that cet was bst+1.
Great combos out there! :thumb:

[J@tko]

Thanks guys.

We tried (well, I did :D) to pick combos that were challenging, but not massive crash prone and good for action and overtaking.

The enduro will be an interesting race - Aston Historic is quite a hard track to master, and will be interesting to see who snaps in the 1 hour race. :thumbsup:

I've also decided the combos for the pre-season get together - ill post nearer the time :thumbsup:

[J@tko]

Final calendar updated in OP.

[Dizzydarryn]

just to help with the times and conversions...

www.worldtimeserver.com

[J@tko]

Deko's just had a stroke of genius and I've edited the OP :thumbsup:

[TomMK]

OP still says sign up is not open, might want to change that :)

Also Calendar says enduro is at AS5 but you said Aston Historic above, i thougth Aston Historic was AS4?

Also :) If anyone uses Google Calendar (and you should) then search for a public calendar called LFSBC Beginner Cup to add all the races to your calendar.

[theo3000]

Also :) If anyone uses Google Calendar (and you should) then search for a public calendar called LFSBC Beginner Cup to add all the races to your calendar.
Done.:thumb:

Very nice.

[J@tko]

Calendar has been changed :thumbsup:

EDIT: No it hasnt :D

I failed again!

[Gil07]

Sounds nice this :)

But why the restriction on the FBM? It's quite easy to drive without it as well...

[J@tko]

Sounds nice this :)

But why the restriction on the FBM? It's quite easy to drive without it as well...
Because we had some fun with it at a non-point scoring round last season, and everyone was like 'woo - this is great, we must have it again!', so we have :thumbsup:

[J@tko]

I have actually now edited the calendar slightly :thumbsup:

[Kanzai]

I will be away for the pre-season opener, I'm competing in a bike trials comp so I will be gone that weekend but I will be able to make the others, is this a problem?

[dougie-lampkin]

I will be away for the pre-season opener, I'm competing in a bike trials comp so I will be gone that weekend but I will be able to make the others, is this a problem?

Yay someone else can spell trials right! (I do trials too ;))

[Kanzai]

NICE! Stock or Mod? :razz:

[gremwood]

I kind of wish the GT2 race was KY3, great track. I'm fine with Historic though.

[dougie-lampkin]

NICE! Stock or Mod? :razz:

Aww :( Guessing it's mountain bike trials then? I'm on proper motorbike trials :D

[Kanzai]

Wish I had the money for that, I'm working my way up :p

[J@tko]

On Topic please peeps :thumbsup:

Yes I'm back from Florida :) Saw some great T-Shirts too :)

e.g: My Favourite Place: 127.0.0.1 :tilt:

[dougie-lampkin]

Yes I'm back from Florida :) Saw some great T-Shirts too :)

e.g: My Favourite Place: 127.0.0.1 :tilt:

Geeky T-Shirts thread time? :D

C:/DOS
C:/DOS/RUN
RUN/DOS/RUN!
Sorry for O/Tness *sorry face*

[J@tko]

Haha yeah I saw some great ones :tilt:

The best one needs photoshop to recreate though... :shrug:

Joe!

EDIT: No more T-Shirt ideas please!

[JO53PHS]

Ayees? :D

[Dizzydarryn]

We are pleased to announce the LFSBC Season 2 Calendar.

Race Calendar
...
Round 4 - 13/9/08 - AS3 – FOX – 2 x 7laps (half points for each) - Second Race is Random Reverse Grid...


My suggestion... should this not be changed to a reverse grid based on EITHER: 1. finishing positions in heat 1 OR 2. Based on fastest laps per heat 1???

Random reverse could really mess things around if you have fastest driver starting 1st and 2nd fastest starting last...

[GreyBull [CHA]]

My suggestion... should this not be changed to a reverse grid based on EITHER: 1. finishing positions in heat 1 OR 2. Based on fastest laps per heat 1???

Random reverse could really mess things around if you have fastest driver starting 1st and 2nd fastest starting last...

+1 I think we should have the top 8 of the first heat reversed, like in WTCC or GP2.

PS : a question about the ballast system : how will it work for round 5, since we have two different heat in round 4?

[Dizzydarryn]

yeah, top 8 will work... it works awesome in those 2 series. we also run it in the series im currently racing in and it works awesome! generally the top 8 guys are neat drivers and even with reverse grid, racing is super close and not too much bumping.

[dekojester]

My suggestion... should this not be changed to a reverse grid based on EITHER: 1. finishing positions in heat 1 OR 2. Based on fastest laps per heat 1???

Random reverse could really mess things around if you have fastest driver starting 1st and 2nd fastest starting last...

No, the way I sort the grid is to reverse a random number seed (generated by Excel =RAND based on number of cars that start the race. And I do not announce this until after Race 1, so that people still race like it's the own race, and not try to finish where they'd start on pole.

And ballast will be the same for Race 1 as Race 2.

d

[dekojester]

;898668']PS : a question about the ballast system : how will it work for round 5, since we have two different heat in round 4?

The ballast is based on Overall Championship points from Round 3 onwards, so Round 5 will calculate ballast from the Official Championship Table after Round 4 Official Results.

d

[Dizzydarryn]

No, the way I sort the grid is to reverse a random number seed (generated by Excel =RAND based on number of cars that start the race. And I do not announce this until after Race 1, so that people still race like it's the own race, and not try to finish where they'd start on pole.

And ballast will be the same for Race 1 as Race 2.

d

and you not interested in considering changing it to fastest lap times from heat 1 reverse??? a bit more purist than a random number generator excel doc that you can never re run to prove its validity :-)

[GreyBull [CHA]]

The ballast is based on Overall Championship points from Round 3 onwards, so Round 5 will calculate ballast from the Official Championship Table after Round 4 Official Results.

d

OK, then I will.

Basically, there are 2 factors that decide the amount of ballast you have:



Your position in the last race
Your overall championship position (from R3 onwards)
ATM (this may change, though it seems about right to me), 1st place in either of the above gets you 3% ballast, 2nd 2.5%, 3rd 2% e.t.c.


So, the maximum amount of ballast you can have (by leading the championship and winning the last race) is 6% of the car's unladen mass.

I've used % rather than a set mass as the cars we use are different.

e.g if the winning ballast was, say 50kg, it would have a different effect in different cars. In an RB4, it wouldnt make that much difference as its a tank already, but 50kg in an FBM would cost you alot of time :)

As you can see, J@kto said that even after round 3, we will still have some ballast for the position in the last race.

[hyntty]

;898841']As you can see, J@kto (J@kto) said that even after round 3, we will still have some ballast for the position in the last race.

J@kto, you moron! You forgot to include that in yar rulebook!

[GreyBull [CHA]]

As darryn said, a random reverse grid doesn't seem very realistic. But yes, I can understand that the WTCC reverse grid is not THAT good too. So here's a few suggestions for that round 4 :

1)We can do a top 8 reverse grid, but not like WTCC, but like GP2, with only the half of the points of the heat 1 given to the finishers of the heat 2(so that mean, for example, 7,5 points will be given to the winner of heat 2, 7 points to the second, etc, etc, etc...)So with that rule, finishing in a good place in heat 1 will be more important than having a good place in heat 2, so nobody will want to finish 8th.

2)Another solution can be also to put some very short quali before heat 2(like 4-5 minutes). That can bring some very very big surprises in the grid, because with this rule it's very hard to deal with traffic.

3) Maybe my favorite one, I saw this system as I race the Hot Hatch Supercup yesterday, and it was very fun. So, before heat 2, you take a hat with some papers where are written all the numbers between 2 and 15, then you take a paper, for example : "10", and then that mean that the top 10 is reversed. That's a good solution I think, because there's absolutely no way to race specially to gets pole. With that rule, everybody will race the first heat "as it's the own race".

So, I hope everybody did understand me, I did my best with my very very poor english:)

[hyntty]

;899182']
3) Maybe my favorite one, I saw this system as I race the Hot Hatch Supercup yesterday, and it was very fun. So, before heat 2, you take a hat with some papers where are written all the numbers between 2 and 15, then you take a paper, for example : "10", and then that mean that the top 10 is reversed. That's a good solution I think, because there's absolutely no way to race specially to gets pole. With that rule, everybody will race the first heat "as it's the own race".


Wtf how is a random (random reverse=random, random, even more random....) any different considering the opportunity (or the lack of it) to tactique for the pole? Second of all the difference between a random grid and a reversed grid (of random number) is... err, I can't think of anything? Wouldn't your starting position be random anyway?

Thirdly, you can't argue it isn't fair. A computer generated grid is probably the fairest towards everyone because everyone has the same chances for a good gridspot.

(oh btw, If I had admin privaledges I'd have modified the rulebook already to include your fail J@kto)

[GreyBull [CHA]]

Wtf how is a random (random reverse=random, random, even more random....) any different considering the opportunity (or the lack of it) to tactique for the pole? Second of all the difference between a random grid and a reversed grid (of random number) is... err, I can't think of anything? Wouldn't your starting position be random anyway?

Thirdly, you can't argue it isn't fair. A computer generated grid is probably the fairest towards everyone because everyone has the same chances for a good gridspot.

(oh btw, If I had admin privaledges I'd had modified the rulebook already to include your fail J@kto)

You can read all my posts, I didn't say that a random grid is different considering the tactique for the pole. I just wanted to say that the Hot Hatch grid type is a fairer(does this word exist?) solution than the random reverse grid? Why? Because in the 3rd heat's grid of the Hot Hatch, we had the top 10 reversed we had all of the best drivers in 10th, 9th, 8th, etc positions of the grid, because they finished the 2nd heat in the best positions.

Now, we returns to LFSBC. Imagine that after round 3, we have two differents championships contendens(spelling?). Name them X and Y. So, X and Y finish 1st and 2nd of the 1st heat. Then we have the reverse grid...... And finally, Y is in pole, and X in the last place. As you can imagine, that is already the end of Y's chances, whereas X, with some backmarkers behind him, have just to finish the race to have the win. So as you can imagine, this race can absolutly ruin the championship of some drivers. That's why I think the reverse grid is a bad thing. The championship is here to show who are the drivers who have tho most skills, not those who were the more lucky.

[hyntty]

;899231']
Now, we returns to LFSBC. Imagine that after round 3, we have two different championship contenders. Name them X and Y. So, X and Y finish 1st and 2nd of the 1st heat. Then we have the reverse grid...... And finally, Y is in pole, and X in the last place. As you can imagine, that is already the end of Y's chances, whereas X, with some backmarkers behind him, have just to finish the race to have the win. So as you can imagine, this race can absolutly ruin the championship of some drivers. That's why I think the reverse grid is a bad thing. The championship is here to show who are the drivers who have tho most skills, not those who were the more lucky.

You can argue about the fairness to the end of the world without any result. Any grid that doesn't involve a qualifying where everyone has had their fair chances isn't fair. Is, for example, a last place due to 'technical difficulities' (which happen irl as well iirc) fair.

In my opinion, the point of a championship is to reward those who can keep up good performances (grammar?). No matter what the starting grounds are. Besides, a little overtaking has never hurt anyone :tilt:

[dekojester]

On the ballast -

I discussed what J@tko really meant by the ballast system, and that is what is in the Official Regulations is how the ballast is applied.

The Reverse Grid:

I believe last year, I had Excel select a Random Number between 2 and 10 (Will confirm tonight), and then those positions would be reversed. If memory serves, the number generated was 6. So:

Race 1 Result:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
...

Race 2 Grid:
6
5
4
3
2
1
7
8
9
10
...

The ONLY random thing about this is how many grid spots are reversed. Using Excel to generate the number is similar to pullig it out of a hat. The actual order will simply be inverted, not randomized. So, if the number is 4, and you finished 4th, you're on pole, and if you finished 1st, you start 4th. 5 on back are unaffected.

d

[GreyBull [CHA]]

The ONLY random thing about this is how many grid spots are reversed. Using Excel to generate the number is similar to pullig it out of a hat. The actual order will simply be inverted, not randomized. So, if the number is 4, and you finished 4th, you're on pole, and if you finished 1st, you start 4th. 5 on back are unaffected.

d

Ah, Ok, sorry, I didn't know that with "random reverse" grid you meant that. Anyway, that's a good system, I am sure we'll have a good race with that.:tilt:

[Dizzydarryn]

On the ballast -

I discussed what J@tko really meant by the ballast system, and that is what is in the Official Regulations is how the ballast is applied.

The Reverse Grid:

I believe last year, I had Excel select a Random Number between 2 and 10 (Will confirm tonight), and then those positions would be reversed. If memory serves, the number generated was 6. So:

Race 1 Result:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
...

Race 2 Grid:
6
5
4
3
2
1
7
8
9
10
...

The ONLY random thing about this is how many grid spots are reversed. Using Excel to generate the number is similar to pullig it out of a hat. The actual order will simply be inverted, not randomized. So, if the number is 4, and you finished 4th, you're on pole, and if you finished 1st, you start 4th. 5 on back are unaffected.

d

Thanks for clearing that up. i think that is more or less what we were both suggesting, except the random number part. which is quite a neat idea, havent heard it before but i kinda like it!

@hyntty: Reverse grid/random grid is not purist for sure!!! but it does make super interesting racing and it is the same basis for everyone. if 2 of the top series in the world are doing it... why cant we?

[hyntty]

Remind me again of the two top series of motorsport... F1 and DTM?

oh, and sure, to mix things up a bit it's the smartest idea ever.

[GreyBull [CHA]]

Remind me again of the two top series of motorsport... F1 and DTM?

oh, and sure, to mix things up a bit it's the smartest idea ever.

GP2 and WTCC:smileypul

[Dizzydarryn]

...
@hyntty: Reverse grid/random grid is not purist for sure!!! but it does make super interesting racing and it is the same basis for everyone. if 2 of the top series in the world are doing it... why cant we?

Read again and you'll see i never mentioned THE top 2... i said 2 OF THE top series in the world...

:thumb: