Bumping and boring

[Wolfgang Amadeus]

I've improved my lap times on BL rally over the last few months. I have also learned to cope with the first bend carnage. I often emerge from the first bend well-placed. However, I'm sometimes not the fastest driver on the track, and the advantage I have gained is sometimes lost later on. I'm finding, increasingly, that faster drivers are forcing their way past by bumping, nudging, or sideswiping, rather than waiting for an opportunity to pass cleanly. I've been told today that it's rally and I should expect it(!), and I've even been told to "respect the speed" of a faster driver, when all I am doing is defending my position. There is surely more to racing than simply driving fast, bullying others out of the way and forcing a way past?

[Gabkicks]

could you upload an mpr with good examples of this? or a youtube vid? if you upload an mpr, tell us what time to fastforward to.

[Gills4life]

You do sometimes get collisions and bumps in rallycross but there is no reason to hit someone out of the way on purpose. :smileypul

[zeugnimod]

I've been told today that it's rally and I should expect it(!), and I've even been told to "respect the speed" of a faster driver, when all I am doing is defending my position.

The person who said that is an idiot. :)

[gezmoor]

I've improved my lap times on BL rally over the last few months. I have also learned to cope with the first bend carnage. I often emerge from the first bend well-placed. However, I'm sometimes not the fastest driver on the track, and the advantage I have gained is sometimes lost later on. I'm finding, increasingly, that faster drivers are forcing their way past by bumping, nudging, or sideswiping, rather than waiting for an opportunity to pass cleanly. I've been told today that it's rally and I should expect it(!), and I've even been told to "respect the speed" of a faster driver, when all I am doing is defending my position. There is surely more to racing than simply driving fast, bullying others out of the way and forcing a way past?

Sounds like the usual excuse to me. I'm betting the person that said that will behave in exactly the same way on tarmac. Far too many people with this attitude in LFS unfortunately. They seem to think that being fast gives them a god given right to pass you and win. They're usually the ones that say "its just a game" too. I sometimes wonder if any of these people have ever watched racing on TV let alone actually ever driven a car. :(

Oh and yes, there is a lot more to racing than just driving fast. Look at how many guys in F1, (and other motorsports), are capable of setting fast times in qualifying. Then when it comes to the race and being conistant etc they drop right down the field.

Edited to add - The sport their talking about is stock car racing NOT rally. The only motorsport where contact is allowed is stock car racing. All other forms of motorsport are strictly non contact. Although of course the occasional mild bump does occur but it's not condoned in any way.

[Dalibor79]

Sounds like the usual excuse to me. I'm betting the person that said that will behave in exactly the same way on tarmac. Far too many people with this attitude in LFS unfortunately. They seem to think that being fast gives them a god given right to pass you and win. They're usually the ones that say "its just a game" too. I sometimes wonder if any of these people have ever watched racing on TV let alone actually ever driven a car. :(

Oh and yes, there is a lot more to racing than just driving fast. Look at how many guys in F1, (and other motorsports), are capable of setting fast times in qualifying. Then when it comes to the race and being conistant etc they drop right down the field.

Edited to add - The sport their talking about is stock car racing NOT rally. The only motorsport where contact is allowed is stock car racing. All other forms of motorsport are strictly non contact. Although of course the occasional mild bump does occur but it's not condoned in any way.

You're rigtht to the bone:thumbsup:

[wsinda]

I've even been told to "respect the speed" of a faster driverI'll bet that this "rule" does not apply when they happen to be the slower driver... :really:

[Huru-aito]

You do sometimes get collisions and bumps in rallycross but there is no reason to hit someone out of the way on purpose. :smileypul

I like rallycross. I don't generally like playing rallycross on public servers though.

It seems that many drivers on rallycross servers have so much trouble keeping their car on the track they forget to use the brakes completely! I can understand a few nudges here and a few bumps there but it's not like that - people just simply do not brake if you're anywhere near in front of them.

It should be like you said, but isn't. I don't know what could we do about the attitude and style of driving of people, since most of the public rallycross servers I've been on are dedicated ones and the admins aren't around / do not care if people drive recklessly.

:arge:

[Mike Bingo]

Sounds like the usual excuse to me. I'm betting the person that said that will behave in exactly the same way on tarmac. Far too many people with this attitude in LFS unfortunately. They seem to think that being fast gives them a god given right to pass you and win. They're usually the ones that say "its just a game" too. I sometimes wonder if any of these people have ever watched racing on TV let alone actually ever driven a car. :(

Oh and yes, there is a lot more to racing than just driving fast. Look at how many guys in F1, (and other motorsports), are capable of setting fast times in qualifying. Then when it comes to the race and being conistant etc they drop right down the field.

Edited to add - The sport their talking about is stock car racing NOT rally. The only motorsport where contact is allowed is stock car racing. All other forms of motorsport are strictly non contact. Although of course the occasional mild bump does occur but it's not condoned in any way.
Totally agree with that, I've been taken out during qualifying by quicker drivers and then blamed because I didn't move out of the way mid- turn even though I was on qualifying lap myself.

[The Radness]

Edited to add - The sport their talking about is stock car racing NOT rally. The only motorsport where contact is allowed is stock car racing. All other forms of motorsport are strictly non contact. Although of course the occasional mild bump does occur but it's not condoned in any way.


I wouldn't say that contact is "allowed"; tolerated is a more the appropriate word. :D

[March Hare]

Are you guys on demo servers? That's where I've noticed these kind of attitudes.
Or is it a rallycross thing?

[AndRand]

Sounds like the usual excuse to me. I'm betting the person that said that will behave in exactly the same way on tarmac.
try me! :) As far as I know while tarmac races are almost strictly non-contact (we have weekend in Pau approaching ;) ),
The sport their talking about is stock car racing NOT rally. The only motorsport where contact is allowed is stock car racing. All other forms of motorsport are strictly non contact. Although of course the occasional mild bump does occur but it's not condoned in any way.
RLX races are bit different to stock car racing. They have the condition of safety: the overtaken cant block but may choose his line, the overtaking cannot take manouver "that is not safe" - crossing the line of the overtaken, pushing inside the curb and the car. "The safe" margin is in RLX quite wide - thats why it is up to the precedent to go in turn not being bumped - and going too wide while overtaking usually means loosing your position to one behind.

[Gills4life]

I like rallycross. I don't generally like playing rallycross on public servers though.

It seems that many drivers on rallycross servers have so much trouble keeping their car on the track they forget to use the brakes completely! I can understand a few nudges here and a few bumps there but it's not like that - people just simply do not brake if you're anywhere near in front of them.

It should be like you said, but isn't. I don't know what could we do about the attitude and style of driving of people, since most of the public rallycross servers I've been on are dedicated ones and the admins aren't around / do not care if people drive recklessly.

:arge:

I prefer rally without the X :razz: then atleast you don't have some fool who should be on singleplayer learning how to drive ramming your ass. I think the problem is that people do not take the rallycross on LFS seriously. If someone could make a CTRA equivalent for rallycross then maybe people will appreciate that being an asshole and smashing someone out of the way is just as annoying as it is on any other racing server like Cone Dodgers, Redline or CTRA.

Rant discontinued until further notice :schwitz: :)

[wheel4hummer]

People need to learn how to drive on gravel in real life. That helps in LFS.

[Bones73]

We have 1 simple rule (amongst others). And that is if you intentionally hit someone you get a warning. If you continue to hit other drivers to get past you get kicked. If you come back and continue this attitude you get banned. Doesn't matter what track we are racing on.

People these days seem to be in a hurry to get nowhere. Doesn't matter if it's on LFS or in RL.

[steviemax]

spot on. in real life you would avoid hitting someone at all costs. all these people that nudge and bump their way through just spoils the realism for themselves and more importantly for others.

i think i will give proracingserver a lookin.

[beefyman666]

Wolfgang, did you collect your souvenir up from the Blackwood Gift Shop?

See attached file, and bung it on your skin. ;)

[dougie-lampkin]

Wolfgang, did you collect your souvenir up from the Blackwood Gift Shop?

See attached file, and bung it on your skin. ;)

:ices_rofl I'm gonna stick that on ma BnJ skin, if you don't mind :D

[beefyman666]

Do as you please with it.

[Gills4life]

hah you have a BJ skin ! :D oh wait there is an "n" .. that ruins everything :flamed:

[Wolfgang Amadeus]

Wolfgang, did you collect your souvenir up from the Blackwood Gift Shop?

See attached file, and bung it on your skin. ;)
Love it, thanks. :)

[bluejudas]

This is how brutal rallyx can be... :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpVpPD2FqA

But sadly LFS has a collision bug, so being that brutal is a problem :(

[mookie427]

This is how brutal rallyx can be... :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpVpPD2FqA



This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP4dkTlXqKo) is how brutal rallycross can be:D

[bluejudas]

This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP4dkTlXqKo) is how brutal rallycross can be:D
Yes :D But I am talking about.. brutal but not to brutal... :D

[mookie427]

fussy person:razz:

[Stefani24]

hard ramming away isnt great, but touching and bumping a bit (bit weaker then the P.I.T. Manouver) is a fix part of rx

[gezmoor]

This is how brutal rallyx can be... :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpVpPD2FqA

But sadly LFS has a collision bug, so being that brutal is a problem :(

Nothing to do with the LFS collision bug. If that was a replay of an average Tintop race in LFS it would be considered a very clean one, and that would be on tarmac too !! I think that video just goes so serve the point that LFS races are in general anything but clean, and just how far from reality so called "clean racing" in LFS is a lot of the time. I don't think i've driven one single race in LFS where someone hasn't at least nudged me. In LFS contact seems to be considered the norm. In real racing it is anything but.

[noskillz]

In LFS contact seems to be considered the norm. In real racing it is anything but.
Its normal in all of the racing I've watched, the only racing where contact is rare is in historic racing and F1. LFS is no worse than some of the "racing" that goes on in BTCC and it's support races.

[dougie-lampkin]

Touring cars allow contact. But in normal club racing (which is what LFS simulates), contact is not allowed. LFS racers don't seem to realise that. What I particularly hate is when you get spun out by someone who thinks they're faster, and then they complain that you were "in the way". Or if you're lucky, you get spammed "AH S0RRIEZ!!!111!!". Not very life like at all :shrug:

[gezmoor]

Its normal in all of the racing I've watched, the only racing where contact is rare is in historic racing and F1. LFS is no worse than some of the "racing" that goes on in BTCC and it's support races.

Ok let me rephrase what I mean. Contact is inevitable in close racing. But the majority of that contact is harmless in real life. It doesn't put people off their lines, doesn't force them to stay out wide and not be able to turn in etc. It's unintentional, and when it's made the drivers make efforts to back off and/or separate. The difference is that in LFS many people purposely nudge others to unsettle their cars just going in to a corner and there by are able to pass for example. Or they just plain use the other car to make the corner at a speed they would never be able to if they weren't "resting" on the other car. Or they dive up the inside knowing full well that they are going to ram the car ahead when it turns in, but doing it just right that they get through unscathed. Those are just a few examples of the kind of racing "techniques" I've seen used regularly in LFS that just wouldn't be tolerated in real racing.

Another example from F1, I can't recall the drivers but it was a tight right and one of the drivers had managed top pull up on the left of the driver in front going down the straight approaching the corner. They both went in to the right hander pretty much side by side, (3/4 car overlap with the ouside driver just nudging ahead), but the inside driver was defending the line and so the outside driver braked to avoid a collision when he realised he was going to be squeezed out by the outside curb of the corner. He actually braked and allowed the inside driver through. In other words his over taking attempt wasn't sucessful and he fell in behind to try again later on.

Now in LFS I garuentee that 90% of players in the same position as the guy on the outside would just attempt to drive over the curb or just plain collide with the inside car. That's the difference, I practically never see people back off to avoid colisions in LFS. Especially in situations where they think they can get through by hitting the other driver.

Simple fact is that in real racing it is the responsibilty of the driver behind to pass cleanly. It is NOT the responsibility of the driver ahead to make space for the driver behind to pass cleanly. The driver ahead is fully entitled to stick to their line and it's just tough if that means you can't pass. If there is going to be a collision it is the driver behinds responsibility to back off and avoid the collision not the defending drivers. The only real exception being a late braking charge up the inside where the defending driver should not turn in if it's going to cause a colision, if it isn't going to cause a collision and the overtaking driver can stop in time then the defending driver is entitled to block the move. The important point to note in such a situation is that the overtaking driver can NOT dive in so late and fast that it will cause a collision unless the defending driver doesn't attempt the corner at all, ie goes straight or has to stop completely etc.

[dougie-lampkin]

I think part of the problem is that people using keyboard/mouse/non-FFB wheels aren't affected by a crash. I always have to avoid collisions with my G25, as one tip and I could be out of control. But those using keyboard or whatever can just drive through anything, and not feel a thing...

It also annoys me to no end when I get rammed at full speed after a race, as it just f*cks up my wheel. People have broken fingers from that...

[mookie427]

I think part of the problem is that people using keyboard/mouse/non-FFB wheels aren't affected by a crash. I always have to avoid collisions with my G25, as one tip and I could be out of control. But those using keyboard or whatever can just drive through anything, and not feel a thing...


believe me thats not the case, I use a keyboard and it's as hard, if not harder to control than using a steering wheel if you get in a smash. And I spend my time in banger servers:D

might just be me and my spaz hands though:)

[Setu]

Anyone who reckons "real" rallycross drivers avoid bumping at all costs, should have seen Martin Schenke and Kenneth Hansen. See some youtube clips, like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmpVpPD2FqA

Or Schanche and Alimatti at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQSqE7tznJ4

They tried to kill each other!

[dougie-lampkin]

But IRL drivers don't have to contend with battling to control the car at low FPS :razz:

[bluejudas]

Or Schanche and Alimatti at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQSqE7tznJ4

They tried to kill each other!

Martin Schanche is known to be a bit of a hot head!! :D (at 2:00 he hits a reporter)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McZtCIDAu6U

Btw he was one of the best rally cross driver on this planet and have made a lot of Norwegians proud...

[ghost racer]

I'm not the fastest racer, but I race more for overall time not position unless it's comming down to the very last few laps.

I still always manage to get ran off the road by a lot of people holding my own line and giving people room that have a the main line in turns.