Jeez I'm so STUPID!!!

[DHRammstein]

I've been playin around with LFS since '05, probably 400 hours of offline play, but I never really took it entirely serious. So, anyways I've been racing online, mostly learning how to follow rules, turn one, awareness, etc etc, and I've got it down really well. But I've always had a problem with RWD cars because I'm on keyboard, and coming out of apex is just, absolutely hell, usually induced oversteer and praying I don't wreck anyone, but then my tires are shot or I eventually spin. SO, TODAY, I'm looking through the options and I see "Button Control Rate", !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 I did not know this existed, I always thought without pedals I was screwed, wot, or no wot. Well, needless to say I've knocked a full second on average off my lap times, and I wreck only half as often, perhaps less!

I guess I wanted to post because I consider myself new, and I think it was a noob mistake. Maybe someone else has overlooked this and it will help them, well anyone on keyboard anyways.

Maybe it's not worth starting a thread, it's just...wow, I'm actually so excited, I can compete finally, without having a wheel. (Won't have one for a long time, maybe never)
Am I the only DumBA$% that's ever overlooked this for....jeez, thousands and thousands of miles of racing....? HAHA

[DevilDare]

well i do have a wheel, but i never use it, my mouse/keyboard setup is so better. I cant drive for crap with a wheel, dunno why. :shrug:

[dougie-lampkin]

There's a learning curve involved with a wheel. I was a good 20 seconds slower than my keyboard times when I first got my G25. But now (4 months later) I'm at the same times. And it feels so much better, and it's much more fun.

[Kendercik]

I didn't even know this. I always thought it was almost impossible without a wheel to drive.
I only drove with a wheel about 25000kms, never took it serious (because of dense real life, i never had time to take it serious)
And only thing i can do is clean racing. Nothing more... BAD RACER & STUPID ME!!! :guilty:

[HVS5b]

well i do have a wheel, but i never use it, my mouse/keyboard setup is so better. I cant drive for crap with a wheel, dunno why. :shrug:

Thats so wrong :really:

Take a leaf from Mr Lampkins book and make an effort!

[garph]

You have to give learning a wheel a good month, maybe even longer depending on how long you been with KB or mouse. Plus you need to make sure you got the wheel and pedals setup right.

Took me a while to adjust from my old Wingman to the DFP. It was the extra rotation that was difficult at first and the pedals were a little softer but much more travel. Was also lucky I knew loads of people with the DFP who helped me set it up, it should be an easy thing but some times finding the right settings (like rotation...540..can be tricky).

Wheel is much better, wouldn't want to voluntarily go back to KB.

[AdanteFornax]

The one thing that gets me is this.

This is a driving sim, ergo steering wheel and pedals.

What's the fuss about keyboards and mice ?

[arco]

Switching to wheel is well worth it. I used the mouse for about 2 years, and had a hard time in the beginning when I got a wheel. But after 1 month or so it started to pay off, and now I can't imagine going back. :)

[G!NhO]

lolage :woohoo:

[Töki (HUN)]

Ouch... Yeah, it's useful to check the settings to find some help :D

[BullHorn]

Playing lfs without a wheel is like going to war without an army.

[MijnWraak]

Playing lfs without a wheel is like going to war without an army.
More like going to war with lasers: do just as good as guns but it is no fun.

[horrgakx]

TBH I've never driven a car sim with a keyboard since my ZX Spectrum...

[morpha]

(Won't have one for a long time, maybe never)
Why?

More like going to war with lasers: do just as good as guns but it is no fun.
Join the army or whatever and see how much fun war with real guns is. You might actually enjoy shooting people (questionable mental state), but I'm pretty sure getting shot is no fun at all. :thumb:

I'm sure you didn't really mean it like that, but you gotta admit it's a stupid comparison :tilt:

[Mille Sabords]

Why?

My guesses:

wife / girlfriend (my case ;))
space (my case, laptop - no desk)
noise (my case, kids sleep when I race, and with the above no way)
money (it can take time to get by a good wheel for the youngers)
fear of addiction

did I forget something?

[Ped7g]

My guesses:

wife / girlfriend (my case ;))
space (my case, laptop - no desk)
noise (my case, kids sleep when I race, and with the above no way)
money (it can take time to get by a good wheel for the youngers)
fear of addiction

did I forget something?

nope, you nailed them all down even for me. :thumbsup:
(although the kid is just on the way, not here yet)

[theirishnoob]

My guesses:

wife / girlfriend (my case ;))
space (my case, laptop - no desk)
noise (my case, kids sleep when I race, and with the above no way)
money (it can take time to get by a good wheel for the youngers)
fear of addiction

did I forget something?

ive a 20 euro Play station two wheel with a splitter for whenever the younger relations come over.... rather good investment imo

[Dygear]

well i do have a wheel, but i never use it, my mouse/keyboard setup is so better. I cant drive for crap with a wheel, dunno why. :shrug:

Dito, mouser for life.

[DHRammstein]

Actually I like the keyboard, especially now that I've got it working for me. But the main reason certainly isn't money, if it was something I'd really like, I'd spend the cash. I may get one one day, but until I get a new place, and have the room for a bigger, better desk, there's just no way. Plus I spend most of my time playing fps's, especially quake wars. They're my favorite gaming. But I do love LFS, and simulators in general, like Microsoft Flight Simulator, been running it for over ten years. Anyways, down the road, I think I may get one, we'll just have to wait and see. Right now I'm using only the keyboard, no mouse, can't stand the mouse, and after finding the option for "Button Control Rate", I'm running great. It would be nice if I could borrow a nice wheel for a month or so just to see if I'd like it, it would help me to make a decision. But, I don't know anyone personally who plays LFS, and believe me, I'm all over people about it. Every gaming forum I use, I make a post every once in a while, till this day, haven't got one person to even peep the demo...with the exception of two people, but they didn't last an hour, they absolutely hated it, weren't PC gamers in the first place, and can't see the difference between a Sim and a game like Need4Speed. Typical gamers just aren't into simulators I guess, maybe I'm not posting in the right places, oh well. We got plenty of good people around here. Maybe I could pick up a used wheel for cheap around here, hmm, I'll look into that, it's just frustrating my desk is no good for a wheel, and I have very little room because for now I have to keep my system in my room, I need an extra computer room, but I should have a place soon, just need to sell my property, or wait for my CD to mature, eh, we'll see. I'd really like to be able to have the control a wheel can provide, especially with spin recovery, extremely difficult using keyboard to turn. Maybe I could try setting up the quick steer buttons for that purpose. Uhg, what a long rant, my bad heh. Overly tired and over stimulated from tons of hotlapping, I got a totally badass Grippy setup for the XRT, and I can't get enough.

[LiveForBoobs]

I didn't even know this. I always thought it was almost impossible without a wheel to drive.
I only drove with a wheel about 25000kms, never took it serious (because of dense real life, i never had time to take it serious)
And only thing i can do is clean racing. Nothing more... BAD RACER & STUPID ME!!! :guilty:

After i saw Mo doing 1:12 on blackwood GP FBM with keyboard i think you can do anything you want with it. :x

[ndiw]

Switching to wheel is well worth it. I used the mouse for about 2 years, and had a hard time in the beginning when I got a wheel. But after 1 month or so it started to pay off, and now I can't imagine going back. :)
welcome to the wheel steering club mate! :thumb:
time to race online!

[AdanteFornax]

Actually I like the keyboard, especially now that I've got it working for me. But the main reason certainly isn't money, if it was something I'd really like, I'd spend the cash. I may get one one day, but until I get a new place, and have the room for a bigger, better desk, there's just no way. Plus I spend most of my time playing fps's, especially quake wars. They're my favorite gaming. But I do love LFS, and simulators in general, like Microsoft Flight Simulator, been running it for over ten years. Anyways, down the road, I think I may get one, we'll just have to wait and see. Right now I'm using only the keyboard, no mouse, can't stand the mouse, and after finding the option for "Button Control Rate", I'm running great. It would be nice if I could borrow a nice wheel for a month or so just to see if I'd like it, it would help me to make a decision. But, I don't know anyone personally who plays LFS, and believe me, I'm all over people about it. Every gaming forum I use, I make a post every once in a while, till this day, haven't got one person to even peep the demo...with the exception of two people, but they didn't last an hour, they absolutely hated it, weren't PC gamers in the first place, and can't see the difference between a Sim and a game like Need4Speed. Typical gamers just aren't into simulators I guess, maybe I'm not posting in the right places, oh well. We got plenty of good people around here. Maybe I could pick up a used wheel for cheap around here, hmm, I'll look into that, it's just frustrating my desk is no good for a wheel, and I have very little room because for now I have to keep my system in my room, I need an extra computer room, but I should have a place soon, just need to sell my property, or wait for my CD to mature, eh, we'll see. I'd really like to be able to have the control a wheel can provide, especially with spin recovery, extremely difficult using keyboard to turn. Maybe I could try setting up the quick steer buttons for that purpose. Uhg, what a long rant, my bad heh. Overly tired and over stimulated from tons of hotlapping, I got a totally badass Grippy setup for the XRT, and I can't get enough.

I'm sorry. I really don't get the point you're trying to make :schwitz:

Do you drive a car in real life with buttons ?

Then don't try to justify using a driving sim with keyboard or mouse !!!!!

peace out

[richhobo94]

im a demo racer but also have GTR2 (crap physics compared to LFS!)
i got a G25 for my bday february 2008 and in a week of addiction (after school and weekends) i taught myself how to heel toe and its so easy now. its definately worth it. btw im not completely addicted now cos i only have like 3 cars to play around with on lfs... lol.

[arco]

welcome to the wheel steering club mate! :thumb:

Thanks mate. Been there for about a year now. :thumb:

[Riders Motion]

What I can say is I used a KEYBOARD for the first 7 months of my LFS experience and I kinda regret it. If I knew a wheel would get me so much better I would have bought one before! It's been a year now since I first bought my Logitech Momo and about three months since I got a DFP and all I can say is: Ebay. You'll get a brand new DFP for 40$ there and I swear you wont regret it. :thumb:

[arco]

What I can say is I used a wheel for the first 7 months of my LFS experience and I kinda regret it.
You say you regret using a wheel? :scratchch :tilt:

[DHRammstein]

I'm sorry. I really don't get the point you're trying to make :schwitz:

Do you drive a car in real life with buttons ?

Then don't try to justify using a driving sim with keyboard or mouse !!!!!

peace out

When I play I don't pretent I'm racing in real life. I enjoy it as a simulator, and may eventually get a wheel, simple as that. As far as real racing, I do as much as possible, we get several events at Pocono and Nazareth, ie the Audi Driving Experience, I'm a first timer for that this year. I also drag race, all over the place. I can't say for sure I understand exactly what point it was you didn't understand.

[evilpimp]

You say you regret using a wheel? :scratchch :tilt:
I believe he says he regrets waiting that long before getting the wheel.

[Riders Motion]

You say you regret using a wheel? :scratchch :tilt:

What? where did you read that? :shrug:

[DHRammstein]

My cats breath smells like cat food.

[arco]

What? where did you read that? :shrug:
Lol! I must have been blind not seeing that big text. Sorry, my fault. :D

[sinanju]

I'm a keyboarder too, (have been since using a membrane keyboard on a Sinclair ZX81) and it took me ages to set up keyboard for LFS to suit my (lack of) driving style.

I use it on Stabilised option, with Steer rate of 42, and return rate of 18.

Someone I met doing predominantly Oval Racing has his set at 20 - 10, which gives much smoother steering, but I found I oversteered. Which is probably why his Oval Hotlaps are slightly faster than mine.

I have to tap tap tap .... (to turn, correct, turn more, correct...), whereas he just does a tap and hold for nice smooth turn.

I've tried using wheel, but I have problems with my feet, in that I can't feel almost anything I stand on, so this gives me real problems when braking. And before you ask, I can't use buttons on wheel to brake / accelerate as hands move position when turning wheel.

Biggest problem I have with keyboard is understeer. Even if someone gave me single seater WR set, I'd probably have to add wing to front and / or take wing off rear. More noticably on FXR/XRR/FZR than any other cars.

Also can't use wheel as don't have space. Our computer desk is in a 2' 2" (650mm) niche between wall and side of stairs. By time you get in thin desk, stool (using stairs as backrest), hardly space for my fat gut, never mind for fitting wheel. (Dog loves it, as she can sit up on the stairs and lick your ears without fear of reprisal).

And my wife gets very annoyed at having to keep removing it so she can get at the computer, and all the trailing wires, and I get annoyed having to re-fit wheel and untangle wires.

Keyboards can be played anywhere; not so wheels.

[DHRammstein]

I think I've gotten as fast as I'll ever get on keyboard, I'm fairly certain. And I know for a fact I can go faster, I know what holds me back, it's all in the input. I guess I have some room for improvement, but I don't think I'll take that, next big step, in this sim until I get a wheel setup. Maybe after I grab a new video card I'll consider it, by then I'll have a wall lenth desk, I'll think of something, or get advise on the board here. Because the computer is used primarily for gaming, but mostly FPS games(quake wars/oblivion/COD etc etc), so I need plenty of space for my mouse and keyboard. Maybe they make a desk with a portion that can swivel, because I assume a wheel would need to be fixed, as in, screwed into place well so not to move. This would be impossible for me.

[Jakg]

Wheels have clamps - you can take it off and unplug it and put it in a box in the cupboard in less than 3 minutes if you want.

[arco]

@sinanju: If wheels are not an option, you should really try to use the mouse for steering instead of kb. It's much easier to learn, and feels way better. Sure, you can get fast with kb, but to get really fast requires a lot of work. And really really fast keyboarders in LFS can be counted on one hand.

[DHRammstein]

Ehh, I hate using the mouse, I've tried, I can't get a good feel for it. I'm doing good on the keyboard for now. The wheel will come eventually.