Reaching saturation...... [driving skills]

[zeeaq]

hey everybody........i've been into LFS for the last 2months or so......and i have to admit....its awesome......being a demoracer i am limited to 3 cars and one track....now the thing is i did start off pretty well.......my lap times started of with 1:40's for XFGT.........very soon i started playing on demo servers too......with a little help from guys there and of course lots of dedication, i managed to progress quite well.......i started improving by a second/day....and so i soon saw 1:39....1:38.....1:37.....1:36......and before i touched 1:35:35 (which is my pb).....i switched to manual.Now for the last one week or so......all that progress seems to have vanished.......in fact to be really frank.....i think i suck......in the last one week.....i cld only better my time to 1:35:11.......infact .... now .... i am even tired of trying.....as i end up doing 1:36's in the race......and late 1:35's in hotlapping.......is this some point of saturation that i have reached or what.......

[CrazyICE]

saturation never exists in LFS ;)

btw: what are u using: keys, mouse or wheel...

[Frankmd]

Oh no, you couldn't have possibly reached saturation. Back in the 0.1 days we had to play those demo cars for like 1.5 year before we could try out something else...

But get an S1 or S2 licence, because you're worth it :lfs:

[zeeaq]

Keys........:)

[Jakg]

Keys........:)? do not use a key gen, the multiplayer alone is worth the money!

[Frankmd]

He was refering to the question about what controls he used...

[CrazyICE]

well, fist of all buy a wheel. try again 2 month to get the 1:35.XXX with wheel and then buy the S2 license ;)
or maybe first wheel and then only S1...
try all cars of s1 and then buy S2 ;)

[axus]

If you are 3s from the world record I would hardly call it saturation. This thread may help though: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4169

[Funnybear]

Just . . . .Buy . . . .S2 . . . . Come . . . .Into . . . The . . .Light . . . And . . . Get . . Off . . . The . . Keys . . . Use . . .Mouse . . . or . . . Wheel . . And . . Stop . . . Hesitating . . . When. . . You . . Speak . . Sounds . . .Like .. . You . . Have . . Asthma . . .

Sounds to me like you havn't truly realised your potential . . .for a start dump the keys method of control. You will never get much faster with them. In leu of a wheel the mouse gives you the most control. Once you go manual your settings will have to change too to allow for more engine braking and earlier power down. Get S2, get onto some used servers and away from the demo racers and let people help you out. Your times will soon drop.

[zeeaq]

thnks a lot guys.that was gud.hey axus i didn't really realize i was jus 3-4 secs away.will get s2.did try mouse but found it kinda hard i.e. after getting used to keys.anyways shld giv it a second try.and ya will get a wheel and s2 soon.and ya thnk u funnybear..........u............now.............cu red............my........aasthma:thumb:........... ...thnks again all of u.

[LRB_Aly]

Don't know if it apllies to this situation , but i have had something comparable.
You know racing a championship, training like a madman for the races, and after the championship was over: Nothing, I had no more energy to drive one more lap. And even when I did, my laptimes where so bad that I stopped right away.
After 2 weeks I was asked to participate to an 4h race, and I started training again, starting to break my PBs and HLs again.
What I want to tell you with this post, is that sometimes you need a break. Sometimes there comes a point when you can't reach better even if you're trying hard. And than after taking a break, suddenly only the sky's the limit.

[mrodgers]

I can always tell when someone is logging on an S2 server for the first time. It's always, "OMG, this is freakin AWESOME!!", "WOW, I can't believe I waited this long to get a license!!", "OMG, this is SOOOOOOOOOO much better than the demo!!", "This FZR is AWESOME!!!". The point being, there's no question, if you like racing, racecars, cars in general, you will love S2, so go ahead and buy it. With a wheel, a good setup, the right settings on your display, you get a beautiful feeling of actually driving. A wheel is a must have. If you use a mouse, no offense to mouse users, but, then you are only playing a game. The immersion factor is in using a wheel.

As for time, too many people are hung up on their laptimes. Who cares. It's all about the racing. If you're into hotlapping offline, then that's fine. But this is all about racing other real people online and times don't really matter. It's the racing. I'm not that fast by any means and many new drivers after a few weeks are running faster times than me, but I never fail to have a blast when I'm racing with someone no matter if it's for 1st or for 10th. FWIW, I've just hit 1:35 at Blackwood in the GTi for the first time after 2 months of running S1 demo, 2 months of running S2 demo, and now 6 months of licensed S2 (of course after my licensing, I haven't run the GTi much at Blackwood). I still have crappy times at Aston Nat in the FZR after 6 months and I believe I've broken 1000 laps there. I don't care though, I've won my share of races and I never fail to have a blast when I'm online.

Also about times. I think many others may be like this. I hit a wall occasionally (not on the track, I mean times) and stop improving for a period of time. Then something will click again and I'll start hitting PB's until I hit another wall of time. It's just a cycle I go through where I'll be stuck at a PB for a while. It's also harder and harder to improve the closer you get to the WR.

Happy racing. And don't ask if you'll like S2. You will, just buy it!!!

[Blowtus]

get involved in racing and get over hotlap times, I'd suggest :) much more rewarding, I've found...

[Chin Boy]

I agree with MRodgers. My lap times are a fair bit slower than others but if you can make the 5 or so laps without crashing and pitting you can get to the podium. LFS is a simulator so the less time spent beaming to the pit for a restart the better.

[Bob Smith]

? do not use a key gen, the multiplayer alone is worth the money!
Hahaha. I can imagine you now, walking down the street, randomly running up to strangers shouting "don't use a cracked copy of LFS" (in a voice similar to that weirdo from Police Academy), doing a mild spasm and running off, with mad, twitchy eyes.

:razz:

[Funnybear]

Ditto. The number of races that I have come in first just through sheer dint of hanging in there and banging in solid times lap after lap. I have got myself to a position that I am never going to get a WR or be one of the banzai hotlappers but I can still bash out a low 1.44 on Aston National, and that's with a mouse. I wish I had a wheel and pedals, if I did I could get really anal and get some really fast times under me, but being a family man it ain't gunna happen. I love the racing aspect and the enjoyment that having a close race spread over a few laps beats one hot lap any day.

[SoloNijN]

Indeed, I always laugh my pants of when everybody is litteraly screaming to the first corner, crashes, and i blow past, gaining about 4-6 places.

And that happens almost every time I join a server...

[Vendetta]

? do not use a key gen, the multiplayer alone is worth the money!

A keygen for lfs? jak you need to get your facts straight or something. Or maybe im wrong, and i need to get my facts straight. But a keygen for LFS is impossible, because you need to have a registered account, more than just a serial number.

[P5YcHoM4N]

A keygen for lfs? jak you need to get your facts straight or something. Or maybe im wrong, and i need to get my facts straight. But a keygen for LFS is impossible, because you need to have a registered account, more than just a serial number.
It is very possable, and many people use them. It spoofs the connection to the LFS server so it thinks you are a registered user. You can't play online, but it unlocks everything.

And using a mouse is faster then keys. Until you get a wheel anyway. You still have no break/gas control other then on/off, but you can turn cleaner which helps a lot.

[Jakg]

A keygen for lfs? jak you need to get your facts straight or something. Or maybe im wrong, and i need to get my facts straight. But a keygen for LFS is impossible, because you need to have a registered account, more than just a serial number.i meant unlocker

[Racer Y]

? do not use a key gen, the multiplayer alone is worth the money!

LOL I knew a guy that made a Key Gen. Trouble was he made it for REAL cars... He gets out in 2 years.....

[axus]

Sigh, can we please stop discussing the fact that there is an unlocker for LFS on the official forums? A lot of people still don't know about it and as I understand it it is not available everywhere and more difficult to get your hands on than your average crack for any other game. Just forget it exists and less people will find out about it.

[Boris Lozac]

I think that there is no way you can reach your maximum in just 2 months..
I mean, i've been playing S2 alpha from June, and plaued S1 demo, back in 2003..
I used to drive every night with my serbian friends on our demo server like a maniac on the Blackwood with GTI.. :pillepall And i thought i reached my maximum with 1.32.7xx...
Then i had a HUUGE brake from BL + GTI when i bougth licence..
Played various S2 combinations, drop once in a month maybe on the demo server again.. Then couple of days ago, i drop by again, to hang out with my demo friends, and drove a cuople of laps... Had two races with 20 laps with driver change at 10th lap(you MUST try this if you haven't!!), and then PB lap after lap :) And then by the end of the secong race, i reached my new PB of 1.32.4x.. :) And i haven't drove that combination for months before that, neither the GTI as a metter of fact.. I see that i can do 1.31.xxx surely.. So, i don't think you can never reach your maximum, because you will always find some place where you can grab an extra milisecond.. just like in art.. "the painting is never finished" as artists say.. ;)

[NotAnIllusion]

It can feel as if one has reached saturation when there is no improvement in lap times over a period of time. It happened to me, I got bored of driving the same laptimes knowing it is possible to get significantly faster times. I was completely rubbish at BL+XFG at first and gave up, later revisited it and got a bit better and finally got stuck in the low 33s. For ages. Again I lost interest and played other games. Now I'm back on form after a set change and varying the LFS cars I drive.

My point: Getting stuck in a certain range doesn't necessarily mean saturation. It can take a combination of things to get you past the invisible barriers. Sometimes changing cars for some time may help, time away from LFS, longer races instead of 5-lappers. Generally something you aren't doing now. Of course continuous, rigorous training is essential too when you do drive the combo.

You should think you have reached a true point of saturation before you hit 32s, after over a year of mainly driving BL1+XFG I tend to think 32s are possible for anyone with the tenacity required to keep at it.

[whitey6272]

Just . . . .Buy . . . .S2 . . . . Come . . . .Into . . . The . . .Light . . . And . . . Get . . Off . . . The . . Keys . . . Use . . .Mouse . . . or . . . Wheel . . And . . Stop . . . Hesitating . . . When. . . You . . Speak . . Sounds . . .Like .. . You . . Have . . Asthma . . .

hahaha

[Flying Squirrel]

There is no saturation. You just haven't found out to go faster yet. I think of this more in terms of levels. You start out, hop in a car, and go. Round and round you go, 10, 20, 50, 100, 1000 laps. At some point, you hit a wall. I'm down to 1.35 sec. Ok, now what?

Then you get into other aspects, things you never thought about before, like tuning. You go from the standard hard track setup to something your own. You toy with every aspect you can think of and try to make the car perform better. You start learning about weight transfer, center of gravity, and traction circles. You apply new concepts to your tuning setups. To lower you time. You hit a wall again. Time to learn something new.

You learn driving techniques and the use of racing lines. You find that optimum paths aren't perfect arcs but rather parabolas. You learn trail braking and the concept of throttle control. You learn that balance is not only tuning but also the aplication of user controls through controlled throttle/brake and steering inputs, always maximizing available grip. You learn the track inch per inch. You know when to brake, you know when to turn, you know where to aim for the apex, you know when you can add throttle. It can get quite methodical as you break a track down piece by peice to create a pattern of predetermined exact inputs that are determined through careful anylization of the track and car setup.

Again you go back to car setup and tune it for the track. You tune spring rates, dampening, brake bias, and gearing to maximize the car to the greatest effect for the given track. Even tire/alignment settings are tune individuially to maximize grip/longevity. Note that a setup for Blackwood normal isn't the same or maybe even close to a Blackwood Reverse setup.

You anylize, you tune, you run, you anylize, tune, run, ....your time goes down.

I haven't gotten to such a point. LFS is more recreational for me, so I'm not aiming to be so mythotical in such matters.

As well, I would HIGHLY suggest buying a wheel. Having the high level of control and precision provides tremendous benifits over other controller systems. The feedback is a very nice benifit as well as it tells you what's happening with the car and provides an additional sensory input other than visual and sound.

[SabersKunk]

the worlds..... most annoying..... way.... of typing.......

[P5YcHoM4N]

the worlds..... most annoying..... way.... of typing.......
Not true. Though silly you can read it. txtspk on te otr and iz wel anoyin lyk lolz

[Messiah]

Hahaha. I can imagine you now, walking down the street, randomly running up to strangers shouting "don't use a cracked copy of LFS" (in a voice similar to that weirdo from Police Academy), doing a mild spasm and running off, with mad, twitchy eyes.

:razz:

*lmao*! And in fact they don't use any cracked whatever at all :P

[mrodgers]

I have to admit, I first had a cracked version of NR2002 that I used just to see if I could run it on my old system. This was way past the time when it was easily available. I did bust my tail to find a copy and found a local store that had NR2003, and many copies at that. So to put my mind at ease, I purchased a copy of 2003 even though I knew I wouldn't run it because 2002 barely ran. Finally, I did find a copy of 2002 at amazon.com and ordered it. So now I have a purchased copy of both 2002/03 and a PC capable of running 2003. My reasoning was just to try it and I did make a big deal at attempting to find it for sale. LFS has a free demo so you can try, unlimited at that too. So there is no excuse for using a cracked version.

All that said about the Nascar sim, I wish I could have bought every copy of NR2003 I saw. I counted 98 copies ($7.99 each) and new they were going for around $50 on ebay at the time. Now a year and a half or so later, I'm seeing unopenned copies on ebay for freakin $139!!

[P5YcHoM4N]

LFS has a free demo so you can try, unlimited at that too. So there is no excuse for using a cracked version.

Well truth be told I did used to play a cracked LFS. I only got a license for two reasons.

1, I figured I play the game so damn much it's worth every penny.
2, It got so hard to find the unlocker it was easier just to buy it :p

I mean, £24 can be made in about 30 minutes work for me (computer repair makes so much cash). When I would spend anywhere from 1-5 hours looking for a crack. Shelling out was the smart thing to do. But if I never cracked the game, I'd have never enjoyed it as much as I did, and thus never went out and got a license.

lawl, I admitted to crackz0rzing on teh offical forum.

[Jakg]

Hahaha. I can imagine you now, walking down the street, randomly running up to strangers shouting "don't use a cracked copy of LFS" (in a voice similar to that weirdo from Police Academy), doing a mild spasm and running off, with mad, twitchy eyes.

:razz:how do you know me? and is that comment about avatars in your sig pointed at me?

[Barroso]

lawl, I admitted to crackz0rzing on teh offical forum.
:slap:

[P5YcHoM4N]

"lawl"

It'll be extra funny if you get banned.
Agreed :p

:slap:
:(