Scawen is probably on it.. limit gear and final ratios 'steps'.

[Niels Heusinkveld]

If only real cars could set gears in 0.001 steps.. Sadly the ratio of available cogs is much more limited. Its one of those small things that I'm just mentioning just in case its not on the long 'to do' list yet :)

[Hankstar]

It's sort of on the list ... people have suggested having less "adjustability" for the street cars, which I tend to agree with, especially when considering the UF1000, XFGTi and the XRGT. It would make races more interesting if drivers had cars that were more closely matched, imho. I can't remember the last time I drove a hatchback out of the box that had a fully adjustable anything! Except the radio...:nod:

Maybe smaller increments within the same range of adjustment would make setting up cars a bit simpler and quicker too. I've never noticed 0.001 of anything making a difference in a race - except 0.001 seconds of course.

[Bob Smith]

Nnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo!



Gearing on road cars is usually given to 0.01 accuracy in technical specifications, so I suppose it could be changed to that, although I'm not convinced it would actually make any difference. If you are typing in the number, how often do you go to three decimal places anyway? I never bother.

I suppose in a way that is also an argument in support of the idea, the last decimal place doesn't really give us any further control over gearing, since it's already fine enough without it.

[Niels Heusinkveld]

Well what I mean is the amount of cogs on the cogwheels makes a 'big' difference.

a cog wheel transmission with 40 and 41 cogs is a step of 0.025. For a step of 0.001 to work you need one 1000 tooth cogwheel and a 1001 cog wheel which would have the diameter of a lorry tyre if the cogs need to be any bit strong :)

I don't really know how gears work but I bet you can't have 40/41 40/40 40/39 as the distance from center to center would be different so for one gear you might have something like this:

40/40 = 1.000
38/42 = 0.905
36/44 = 0.818
34/46 = 0.739

just as an example.

[vari]

In real life you could have the ratio's made to any diameter, and so have a resolution of 0.000001 if you wanted. But it'd be ludicrously expensive.

Diameter doesn't determine the ratio, amount of cogs do.

[Hyperactive]

Diameter doesn't determine the ratio, amount of cogs do.

It's pretty much the same thing. ;) Bigger diameter = more teeth in cogs in general. You can use both when calculating the ratios...

How about giving us the cogs to choose from instead of those numbers? So that LFS would have some table of cog diameter values and then a slider to alter the ratio. So basically it would change the teeth count of the cogs. This would be more "realistic" as in real life the steps aren't exactly .25 or .10. But very little effect on anything...

Should the road cars even have changeable gearbox ratios? (nooooo!) :)

[axus]

It's pretty much the same thing. ;) Bigger diameter = more teeth in cogs in general. You can use both when calculating the ratios...

How about giving us the cogs to choose from instead of those numbers? So that LFS would have some table of cog diameter values and then a slider to alter the ratio. So basically it would change the teeth count of the cogs. This would be more "realistic" as in real life the steps aren't exactly .25 or .10. But very little effect on anything...

Should the road cars even have changeable gearbox ratios? (nooooo!) :)

Perhaps the the road cars should have a choice of a few gearboxes? Short ration, Medium ratio and Long ratio or something like that? ie. Each gearbox has predefined ratios that you cannot alter.

[mrodgers]

Should the road cars even have changeable gearbox ratios? (nooooo!) :)
Yes they should, but it shouldn't be in 0.001 increments or 0.01 increments or even 0.1 increments. It should be like real life where I basically have stock ratios in the tranny and I can choose my differential ratio like my crappy factory 3.53 gears in my Tacoma or 3.83, 4.10 (which is suppose to be factory, damn previous owner :( ), 4.37 (stock w/ auto), or 4.53. Same with a 90's generation Mustang. Isn't the diff ratios available 3.08 stock with 3.53 and 3.83 aftermarket? The road cars should have only certain ratios available like you would get in aftermarket. I'd go with shock and spring settings this way as well with road cars. Hard, medium, and soft settings or equivelent for shocks and springs. You can't customize as fine in real life as we can in LFS.

I don't know how this works with FWD, though, without a rear end differential.

Of course, race cars are different and you should be able to set the ratios to whatever you want. They would be custom fabricated or custom purchased.

*Edit: Thanks axus, it took me 6 minutes longer to post, LOL.

[vari]

It's pretty much the same thing. ;) Bigger diameter = more teeth in cogs in general. You can use both when calculating the ratios...


I still say that cogs are the determining factor and not the diameter :) I said that only because 0.000001 differences (mentioned by tristan) can't be achieved. Changing the diameter by 0.000001 doesn't change the ratio at all.

Nitpicking though so nevermind.

[vari]

It is the whole answer in this case.

For example my camshaft never goes out of sync (it'd break things) due to normal wear of the cam gear. For every revolution of the camshaft the crankshaft turns twice and not 2.000001 times.

[M.Mos]

Like Vari said ,it's just about teeths.

[Cue-Ball]

I agree with most of what's been said here as well. Right now the road cars are far too customizable. I'd prefer to see a limited selection of transmissions and rear end gears, along with much more limited suspension setup. The nearly infinite gears and shocks/sway bars/etc that we have now are very unrealistic. Limiting these changes should help make the racing a bit closer and would make it easier for newbies (and those of us who hate mucking with setups) to get cars setup properly.

[Bob Smith]

Never under-estimate the power of the gear ratio. ;)

However cars gearboxes aren't as simple as motorcycle or push-bike gears, where you can just count the teeth on two different sprockets.

Hence why car's gears are expressed as simplified ratios rather than the actual teeth.

[ellis_dee]

Maybe an accuracy of 2 Digits is enough, because you wont even notice a difference of 0.001 in gear ratio....but I like the feature to tune the gearbox exactly to what you want it. And about realism...these are mostly fictional cars, so who can say, that there is no aftermarket gearbox with all ratios possible? I don't have the slightest problem with the way things are right now...

[axus]

Maybe an accuracy of 2 Digits is enough, because you wont even notice a difference of 0.001 in gear ratio....but I like the feature to tune the gearbox exactly to what you want it. And about realism...these are mostly fictional cars, so who can say, that there is no aftermarket gearbox with all ratios possible? I don't have the slightest problem with the way things are right now...

You'd need gears that cost more than the car right now to have this level of adjustability for one thing. Beginner drivers generally struggle with setups for another, so this may flatten the learning curve. Adjustability to 0.01 is too much aswell. LFS tries to be as realistic as possible, so this is a logical step in the development of setups. If you wish for that level of adjustability on gearing, the race cars will still be there.

[Niels Heusinkveld]

Well, it is almost physically impossible in real life. The gear ratio depends on the amount of teeth on coghweel 1 vs cogwheel 2. The cogs need to be strong so they can't be too small. This means that in the space of a gearbox you can't have cogwheels with all that many teeth.

It would be a bit tricky to find out what is and isn't possible perhaps, so something more simplified like steps of 0.05 or 0.1 would be the easy thing to do.

I think GPL uses real gear ratios which might give some idea about the steps encountered.

[Hyperactive]

Just out of interest, how much do they alter gear ratios in F1, GTR and smaller FWD racing classes? And in rally cars? I mean do they mainly change the rear/front diffs (not sure what this is in english, the main ratio...) or do they actually change the actual cog couples inside the transmission box? Or do they change the whole box?

And maybe the clutch could be quite a lot weaker in the racing cars. Meaning that the only way to have good start would be to use the clutch, like in GPL. High revs and "sliding" the clutch = race finished :) So getting the car moving could be harder too. And in case of spinning you would need to push down the clutch or the engine turns off. And without starter...race ovah!

Heh, a joke: FXR is belt-driven awd :D

[Gunn]

Just out of interest, how much do they alter gear ratios in F1, GTR and smaller FWD racing classes? And in rally cars? I mean do they mainly change the rear/front diffs (not sure what this is in english, the main ratio...) or do they actually change the actual cog couples inside the transmission box? Or do they change the whole box? Well often they re-engineer the entire tranmission to whatever ratios and final drive setting they wish. In F1 engineering for example, whatever ratios they want to achieve they simply engineer into their gearbox, just like we can in LFS. I don't see our setup options for transmission as being a brand-name gearbox with limited options, I see it as an opportunity to choose what I think the best ratio will be for that car. This makes me the engineer in LFS and that's what I prefer over choosing a few settings from a limited range of options. In some race series the regulations would specify a type of box or what mods were allowed, and in this circumstance a limited range of options may be very acceptable. In the pure race cars in LFS I think the current system is valid. For the road cars or future restrictive classes (that may or may not evolve) some restricted tranmission would not be unrealistic.

[Racer Y]

Uh. aren't racing cars custom engineered? wouldn't it make more sense to have the fine tuning to replicate the differing ratios that occur between
the different race car teams?
As for the road cars? Personally, I think this is a non issue.
I mean think about it. Just what are the "proper" gear ratios for the
FXO? Anybody have the manufacturers specs on that? And if the
gear choices were to be limited like so many seem to want, What if the
gear choices offered in the game are actually "wrong"?
I mean if someone actually did make an FXO, would the gear ratios still be the same as what would be offered for the FXO in the game?

For example, say everyone built a Cadillac Eldorado (fins, not the N.Star crap)
from scratch. I mean milling the block and everything. You really think that everyone will have the same identical set of gear ratios? Espescially if
you take into account the ± for the tolerance. Like if I was to mill a sprocket with "X" amount of teeth at a certain diameter. the next gear
I mill may be off by .0001whatever yet because of the tolerance, it
will still work. wouldn't that slight offset change the exact, THE EXACT
ratio by just a little bit? say by .0001? So wouldn't the fine tuning we have
now more accurately simulate the slight variations that occur with production?

But enough of that.... I was hoping this thread was about using flaming trash cans instead of tires. Who really cares about .0001?

[Hyperactive]

Well often they re-engineer the entire tranmission to whatever ratios and final drive setting they wish. In F1 engineering for example, whatever ratios they want to achieve they simply engineer into their gearbox, just like we can in LFS.

But some of them have a CNC manufacturing facilities with them at paddock (?) to quickly manufacture stuff. And I guess they do a lot of pre simulations to get the ratios correct for the circuit. What I am after is that if the pre-made ratios don't match well, do they just replace the whole gearbox to other alternative (having couple of spare boxes with different ratios) or do they change individual parts or do they make new parts to make it better? Are they able to chance the ratios quickly in steps of .1 or .05? And I guess this unique among racing series, how do they change ratios in Nascar, Cart or in GTR, where they don't have that much money to spend? The premade boxes can cause some problems if the track is wet (different speeds in corners and slower max speed) and some moderate aero settings can really change the ratios needed. So what I'm saying that it is possible to make a gearbox with the exactly desired ratios but when they are testing can they change the ratios easily...

I don't see our setup options for transmission as being a brand-name gearbox with limited options, I see it as an opportunity to choose what I think the best ratio will be for that car. This makes me the engineer in LFS and that's what I prefer over choosing a few settings from a limited range of options. In some race series the regulations would specify a type of box or what mods were allowed, and in this circumstance a limited range of options may be very acceptable. In the pure race cars in LFS I think the current system is valid. For the road cars or future restrictive classes (that may or may not evolve) some restricted tranmission would not be unrealistic.

Agreed. But even if it possible in many series to have special gearboxes they don't actually have them because it is not so big deal and costs too much. In LFS we don't need to worry about costs but just that it is possible in real life shouldn't make it an option in LFS as in real life they don't have individual gearboxes for every track. It is just the conflict between not being able to use slicks in road cars = restricted series. But then fully modificable gearbox ratios?

[FlintFredstone]

I hate to say it, but we do need to limit, after all we are trying to recreate 'class' racing which in theory would limit the setup/custom components.

Even the new 'GP Masters' series is tightly controled to stop drivers (mansell prob :) ) spending money 'developing' the car.

Troy

[tailing]

I agree with Gunn, sometimes LFS allows us to do something that isn't technically possible in the real world but that isn't necessarily a bad thing imo as long as the major things like physics are realistic.

[LRB_Aly]

I agree with FlintFredstone that some limitations have to be made. Not as in his example for GpMasters as these are race class limitations, but limitations to the little cars as XF GTI XR GT etc... . As they are atm they seem to be normal vehicles that you take and race against each other. Don't think that in real life there could be that much you're gonna change on such a car (surely it would also be limited by regulations). The problem is that as these aren't real life cars, you don't have any specs that you just could put in. But you could guess, as for example the XF GTI is something like an old Ibiza or whatever you think it is, you could take approx. the same setup as the real life car. So that not much should be changed in the setup. Or you could make 2 classes: One limited class (with limited setup options) and one unlimited (as we have now.) Could make this an server side option, wether you like the one or the other.

[Woz]

As an example when the V8 series came to Bathurst (How I would love this track in LFS) this year the teams had 3 diffs to choose from. This meant they only a 3 different final drive ratio's to pick from. So even full blow race cars have setup limitations depending on race series.

Not sure how many other series are like this though

[XCNuse]

Like Vari said ,it's just about teeths.
so whats better.. jaws.. or gramps? :shy: :D
(most random post i have EVER made lol)

[Joris]

Bump!

Just wanted to bring this issue under attention again without starting a new thread.

To support the case for limited gear ratio options I attached a specsheet of the car the Fox is inspired by an older Formula Renault 2000.

[tinvek]

Perhaps the the road cars should have a choice of a few gearboxes? Short ration, Medium ratio and Long ratio or something like that? ie. Each gearbox has predefined ratios that you cannot alter.


perfect answer for the lower classes m8, just 3 fixed gearbox options and just 1 diff ratio for the model, pick a fixed mid range diff value and let the driver choose between 3 unadjustable gearbos ratio sets. far closer to real life :thumb:

[wheel4hummer]

I think that the spider gear of the differential should be adjustable from 6-20 teeth, and the ring gear should be adjustable from 20-60 teeth. That would give a range of 1:1 through 10:1 and a total of 560 'steps' of the differential ratio. It could still be adjusted on one slider, it would just snap to those values.

[duke_toaster]

My opinionz

Road cars - totally forced setup save for tyre related stuff.
Racing cars - unsure.
FOX - Three sets of ratios (or three final drive options).
FO8 - A bit less adjustability than now
BF1 - Kept the same
FBM and MRT - Real life settings?

[Hyperactive]

...
To support the case for limited gear ratio options I attached a specsheet of the car the Fox is inspired by an older Formula Renault 2000.

"A choice of three ratio sets: short medium and long will limit costs over a season"

---
I'd say this isn't on the top of the to-do list :D

[AndroidXP]

Haha, "Scawen is probably on it." Yeah sure. The good old times :)

[Zen321]

My opinionz

Road cars - totally forced setup save for tyre related stuff.
Racing cars - unsure.
FOX - Three sets of ratios (or three final drive options).
FO8 - A bit less adjustability than now
BF1 - Kept the same
FBM and MRT - Real life settings?

I hope you mean ONLY for the gearbox settings, not for all of the other options.
As there are many aftermarket upgrades for each car that has racing capacities, I think just the gearbox/final drive should be limited. However, the suspension, differential, wheel adjustment should stay the way it is, as it is possible to do it in real life.
Just for instance, limitind the options in the clutch pack LSD for the XRG/XFG made the cars less performant as what they should be.
Having a 2-Way (equal coast/power) differential in a FWD is just plain useless while a Detroit locker (0 coast while locked on power). And for the XRG, since the best way to be fast is to carry as much speed in entries, a 2-Way creates more resistance when turning in, while a 1.5way (coast = half of power value) would be the fastest way.

So overlimiting settings would turn the game into a non-realistic choice of options. I reckon that limitations are mandatory, but only to things that are limited IRL (such as gearbox for the road cars).

[juliao]

lol:scratchch

[Woz]

Out of interest I thought I would add that in a series like the Aussie V8s they only have a few final drive ratio's to select from. Then they can play with gears after that. So even in full spec race cars the choices are still limited

[Karl Morytz]

+1 its something what REALLY NEEDS to be done beter.

[anttt69]

+1 for less adjustability with road car gears. Its just not realistic.

[e2mustang]

why? u can get whatever u want irl

[tristancliffe]

That's the thing - you can't! Not without having teeth so small they wouldn't cope with any appreciable torque.

[e2mustang]

arent we talkin about diffs? u get whatever u want,aftermarkets,they make custums anywhere.

[AndroidXP]

This thread is about gear ratios, not differentials. It's even in the goddarn thread title.

[tristancliffe]

Well, we're talking about all the gears, including the crownwheel and pinion. But there only so many teeth of sufficient size to resist the engine torque that you can fit in a diff casing. A custom one can NOT be of ANY ratio you want.

This, for example, is a list of gear ratios available for Hewland Mk5 gearboxes.

MK5-16:35-2ND RATIO 2.188
MK5-16:34-STD MK5-16:34-2ND RATIO 2.125
MK5-13:27-STD MK5-13:27-2ND RATIO 2.077
MK5-15:30-STD MK5-15:30-2ND RATIO 2.000
MK5-14:27-STD MK5-14:27-2ND RATIO 1.929
MK5-18:34-STD MK5-18:34-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 14:26 1.889
MK5-14:26-STD MK5-14:26-2ND RATIO 1.857
MK5-18:33-STD MK5-18:33-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO 1.833
MK5-15:27-STD MK5-15:27-2ND RATIO 1.800
MK5-18:32-STD MK5-18:32-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 17:30 1.778
MK5-17:30-STD MK5-17:30-2ND RATIO 1.765
MK5-15:26-STD MK5-15:26-2ND RATIO 1.733
MK5-17:29-STD MK5-17:29-2ND RATIO 1.706
MK5-15:25-STD MK5-15:25-2ND RATIO 1.667
MK5-16:26-STD MK5-16:26-2ND RATIO 1.625
MK5-17:27-STD MK5-17:27-2ND RATIO 1.588
MK5-16:25-STD MK5-16:25-2ND RATIO 1.563
MK5-17:26-STD MK5-17:26-2ND RATIO 1.529
MK5-16:24-STD MK5-16:24-2ND RATIO 1.500
MK5-17:25-STD RATIO 1.471
MK5-16:23-STD RATIO 1.438
MK5-19:27-STD RATIO 1.421
MK5-18:25-STD RATIO 1.389
MK5-19:26-STD MK5-19:26-2ND RATIO 1.368
MK5-18:24-STD RATIO 1.333
MK5-19:25-STD RATIO 1.316
MK5-20:26-STD MK5-20:26-2ND RATIO 1.300
MK5-21:27-STD RATIO 1.286
MK5-22:28-STD RATIO 1.273
MK5-19:24-STD RATIO 1.263
MK5-21:26-STD RATIO 1.238
MK5-18:22-STD RATIO 1.222
MK5-19:23-STD RATIO 1.211
MK5-21:25-STD RATIO 1.190
MK5-23:27-STD RATIO 1.174
MK5-24:28-STD RATIO 1.167
MK5-19:22-STD RATIO 1.158
MK5-21:24-STD RATIO 1.143
MK5-22:25-STD RATIO 1.136
MK5-24:27-STD RATIO 1.125
MK5-19:21-STD RATIO 1.105
MK5-24:26-STD RATIO 1.083
MK5-18:19-STD RATIO 1.056
MK5-25:26-STD RATIO 1.040
MK5-24:24-STD RATIO 1.000
MK5-26:25-STD RATIO 0.962
MK5-26:24-STD RATIO 0.923
MK5-27:24-STD RATIO 0.889

Layshaft Options
Part Number
Standard gears Part Number
2nd gears (hubbed) Description Ratio
MK5-16:35-2ND RATIO 2.188
MK5-16:34-STD MK5-16:34-2ND RATIO 2.125
MK5-13:27-STD MK5-13:27-2ND RATIO 2.077
MK5-15:30-STD MK5-15:30-2ND RATIO 2.000
MK5-14:27-STD MK5-14:27-2ND RATIO 1.929
MK5-18:34-STD MK5-18:34-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 14:26 1.889
MK5-14:26-STD MK5-14:26-2ND RATIO 1.857
MK5-18:33-STD MK5-18:33-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO 1.833
MK5-15:27-STD MK5-15:27-2ND RATIO 1.800
MK5-18:32-STD MK5-18:32-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 17:30 1.778
MK5-17:30-STD MK5-17:30-2ND RATIO 1.765
MK5-15:26-STD MK5-15:26-2ND RATIO 1.733
MK5-17:29-STD MK5-17:29-2ND RATIO 1.706
MK5-15:25-STD MK5-15:25-2ND RATIO 1.667
MK5-16:26-STD MK5-16:26-2ND RATIO 1.625
MK5-17:27-STD MK5-17:27-2ND RATIO 1.588
MK5-16:25-STD MK5-16:25-2ND RATIO 1.563
MK5-17:26-STD MK5-17:26-2ND RATIO 1.529
MK5-16:24-STD MK5-16:24-2ND RATIO 1.500
MK5-17:25-STD RATIO 1.471
MK5-16:23-STD RATIO 1.438
MK5-19:27-STD RATIO 1.421
MK5-18:25-STD RATIO 1.389
MK5-19:26-STD MK5-19:26-2ND RATIO 1.368
MK5-18:24-STD RATIO 1.333
MK5-19:25-STD RATIO 1.316
MK5-20:26-STD MK5-20:26-2ND RATIO 1.300
MK5-21:27-STD RATIO 1.286
MK5-22:28-STD RATIO 1.273
MK5-19:24-STD RATIO 1.263
MK5-21:26-STD RATIO 1.238
MK5-18:22-STD RATIO 1.222
MK5-19:23-STD RATIO 1.211
MK5-21:25-STD RATIO 1.190
MK5-23:27-STD RATIO 1.174
MK5-24:28-STD RATIO 1.167
MK5-19:22-STD RATIO 1.158
MK5-21:24-STD RATIO 1.143
MK5-22:25-STD RATIO 1.136
MK5-24:27-STD RATIO 1.125
MK5-19:21-STD RATIO 1.105
MK5-24:26-STD RATIO 1.083
MK5-18:19-STD RATIO 1.056
MK5-25:26-STD RATIO 1.040
MK5-24:24-STD RATIO 1.000
MK5-26:25-STD RATIO 0.962
MK5-26:24-STD RATIO 0.923
MK5-27:24-STD RATIO 0.889

Mk9 Gearbox
Part Number Description Ratio
MK5-13:38-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.923
MK5-12:33-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.750
MK5-12:31-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.583
MK5-12:29-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.417

NST Gearbox
and Dallara F3 Gearbox from 1994
Part Number Description Ratio
F3A-13:38-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.923
F3A-12:33-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.750
F3A-12:31-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.583
F3A-12:29-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.417
F3A-13:30-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.308
F3A-14:31-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.214

[e2mustang]

Well, we're talking about all the gears, including the crownwheel and pinion. But there only so many teeth of sufficient size to resist the engine torque that you can fit in a diff casing. A custom one can NOT be of ANY ratio you want.
isnt it enough for you for a streetcar?

[tristancliffe]

Sorry, what?

You said "why? u can get whatever u want irl", and you can't. See how the teeth on any given gear range between 27 and 13 for standard ratios and 38 to 12 for differential gears. That's not "whatever u want", that's a big restriction.

[e2mustang]

well i said that when i thought they r talkin about diffs,i didnt read from first post,and its a 2 year old thread so i guess we have updates on this already,maybe not,idk :D

[tristancliffe]

Nope it's the same. And it's the same even if we're talking about diffs (I mentioned crownwheel and pinions, which I'm sure you know define the differential ratio). You can't have ~infinite (0.00x) adjustment with toothed gears.

[S14 DRIFT]

Well, we're talking about all the gears, including the crownwheel and pinion. But there only so many teeth of sufficient size to resist the engine torque that you can fit in a diff casing. A custom one can NOT be of ANY ratio you want.

This, for example, is a list of gear ratios available for Hewland Mk5 gearboxes.

MK5-16:35-2ND RATIO 2.188
MK5-16:34-STD MK5-16:34-2ND RATIO 2.125
MK5-13:27-STD MK5-13:27-2ND RATIO 2.077
MK5-15:30-STD MK5-15:30-2ND RATIO 2.000
MK5-14:27-STD MK5-14:27-2ND RATIO 1.929
MK5-18:34-STD MK5-18:34-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 14:26 1.889
MK5-14:26-STD MK5-14:26-2ND RATIO 1.857
MK5-18:33-STD MK5-18:33-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO 1.833
MK5-15:27-STD MK5-15:27-2ND RATIO 1.800
MK5-18:32-STD MK5-18:32-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 17:30 1.778
MK5-17:30-STD MK5-17:30-2ND RATIO 1.765
MK5-15:26-STD MK5-15:26-2ND RATIO 1.733
MK5-17:29-STD MK5-17:29-2ND RATIO 1.706
MK5-15:25-STD MK5-15:25-2ND RATIO 1.667
MK5-16:26-STD MK5-16:26-2ND RATIO 1.625
MK5-17:27-STD MK5-17:27-2ND RATIO 1.588
MK5-16:25-STD MK5-16:25-2ND RATIO 1.563
MK5-17:26-STD MK5-17:26-2ND RATIO 1.529
MK5-16:24-STD MK5-16:24-2ND RATIO 1.500
MK5-17:25-STD RATIO 1.471
MK5-16:23-STD RATIO 1.438
MK5-19:27-STD RATIO 1.421
MK5-18:25-STD RATIO 1.389
MK5-19:26-STD MK5-19:26-2ND RATIO 1.368
MK5-18:24-STD RATIO 1.333
MK5-19:25-STD RATIO 1.316
MK5-20:26-STD MK5-20:26-2ND RATIO 1.300
MK5-21:27-STD RATIO 1.286
MK5-22:28-STD RATIO 1.273
MK5-19:24-STD RATIO 1.263
MK5-21:26-STD RATIO 1.238
MK5-18:22-STD RATIO 1.222
MK5-19:23-STD RATIO 1.211
MK5-21:25-STD RATIO 1.190
MK5-23:27-STD RATIO 1.174
MK5-24:28-STD RATIO 1.167
MK5-19:22-STD RATIO 1.158
MK5-21:24-STD RATIO 1.143
MK5-22:25-STD RATIO 1.136
MK5-24:27-STD RATIO 1.125
MK5-19:21-STD RATIO 1.105
MK5-24:26-STD RATIO 1.083
MK5-18:19-STD RATIO 1.056
MK5-25:26-STD RATIO 1.040
MK5-24:24-STD RATIO 1.000
MK5-26:25-STD RATIO 0.962
MK5-26:24-STD RATIO 0.923
MK5-27:24-STD RATIO 0.889

Layshaft Options
Part Number
Standard gears Part Number
2nd gears (hubbed) Description Ratio
MK5-16:35-2ND RATIO 2.188
MK5-16:34-STD MK5-16:34-2ND RATIO 2.125
MK5-13:27-STD MK5-13:27-2ND RATIO 2.077
MK5-15:30-STD MK5-15:30-2ND RATIO 2.000
MK5-14:27-STD MK5-14:27-2ND RATIO 1.929
MK5-18:34-STD MK5-18:34-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 14:26 1.889
MK5-14:26-STD MK5-14:26-2ND RATIO 1.857
MK5-18:33-STD MK5-18:33-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO 1.833
MK5-15:27-STD MK5-15:27-2ND RATIO 1.800
MK5-18:32-STD MK5-18:32-2ND OBSOLETE RATIO USE 17:30 1.778
MK5-17:30-STD MK5-17:30-2ND RATIO 1.765
MK5-15:26-STD MK5-15:26-2ND RATIO 1.733
MK5-17:29-STD MK5-17:29-2ND RATIO 1.706
MK5-15:25-STD MK5-15:25-2ND RATIO 1.667
MK5-16:26-STD MK5-16:26-2ND RATIO 1.625
MK5-17:27-STD MK5-17:27-2ND RATIO 1.588
MK5-16:25-STD MK5-16:25-2ND RATIO 1.563
MK5-17:26-STD MK5-17:26-2ND RATIO 1.529
MK5-16:24-STD MK5-16:24-2ND RATIO 1.500
MK5-17:25-STD RATIO 1.471
MK5-16:23-STD RATIO 1.438
MK5-19:27-STD RATIO 1.421
MK5-18:25-STD RATIO 1.389
MK5-19:26-STD MK5-19:26-2ND RATIO 1.368
MK5-18:24-STD RATIO 1.333
MK5-19:25-STD RATIO 1.316
MK5-20:26-STD MK5-20:26-2ND RATIO 1.300
MK5-21:27-STD RATIO 1.286
MK5-22:28-STD RATIO 1.273
MK5-19:24-STD RATIO 1.263
MK5-21:26-STD RATIO 1.238
MK5-18:22-STD RATIO 1.222
MK5-19:23-STD RATIO 1.211
MK5-21:25-STD RATIO 1.190
MK5-23:27-STD RATIO 1.174
MK5-24:28-STD RATIO 1.167
MK5-19:22-STD RATIO 1.158
MK5-21:24-STD RATIO 1.143
MK5-22:25-STD RATIO 1.136
MK5-24:27-STD RATIO 1.125
MK5-19:21-STD RATIO 1.105
MK5-24:26-STD RATIO 1.083
MK5-18:19-STD RATIO 1.056
MK5-25:26-STD RATIO 1.040
MK5-24:24-STD RATIO 1.000
MK5-26:25-STD RATIO 0.962
MK5-26:24-STD RATIO 0.923
MK5-27:24-STD RATIO 0.889

Mk9 Gearbox
Part Number Description Ratio
MK5-13:38-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.923
MK5-12:33-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.750
MK5-12:31-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.583
MK5-12:29-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.417

NST Gearbox
and Dallara F3 Gearbox from 1994
Part Number Description Ratio
F3A-13:38-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.923
F3A-12:33-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.750
F3A-12:31-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.583
F3A-12:29-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.417
F3A-13:30-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.308
F3A-14:31-INT LAYSHAFT & INT 1ST 2.214

Copy paste ftw. :razz:

[tristancliffe]

Wow. You're a genius Drift. Even though I said "this is a list of...", and therefore pretty much gave away the fact it's a copy paste, combined with the poor column problem...

You must be REALLY clever to work out it was a copy-paste.

Sheesh...

[S14 DRIFT]

Wow, someone obviously didn't get their cookies and milk for bed.

Calm the **** down. :jawdrop:

Love peace and chicken grease.

Btw ty for saying I'm a genious, saved for quoting at a later date ;)

I have quite a big folder of shit to say now, :woohoo:

[AndroidXP]

I have quite a big folder of shit to say now, :woohoo:That's no surprise to us, you're constantly emptying it on this forum.

[S14 DRIFT]

Ok, so I wake up and find alot of shit that I cannot explicitly remember typing, spattered all over this forum.

Good one. Yet you're still here complaining? Obviously I'm not the most liked around here, but then do I care? Ignore list is there for a reason, to block people you don't want to read/don't like.

I have my moments but often actually take part in valid discussion, and yet some people who insist on having a problem with me (like you) manage to miss the 70% of posts that are actually decent. I'd call that selective vision.

But yeah, anyway. Tristan, I knew you copy/pasted it. Just that you think I didn't know. I may be stupid, but I'm not that stupid. :razz:

[AndroidXP]

No actually the few decent posts are the reason you're not on my ignore list, though it's a constant battle of the shitty ones trying to take over. Was quite fun looking at your self-conversation in the now locked cruise thread, though. ;)

[tristancliffe]

So now you're claiming that I attempted to hide my copy and paste? You thought that I thought no one would realise I'd copied a page load of ratios from Hewland's website?

If you're going to participate in these threads, why not only do so when you are able to contribute technically, or if you are asking the question in the first place (much more likely judging by your lack of technical understanding).

Perhaps you'd like to explain how 0.001 gear ratio steps can be defined. Perhaps you'd like to write out over 100 ratios by hand for me?

I would add you to the ignore list (and not lose anything useful - it's not selective, I just never see anything useful from you at all) - but I have little willpower, and seeing the space where your post should be always makes me want to see what depths you'd have sunk to that time.

That is all.

[S14 DRIFT]

No no no no noo.

You missed my point.

You thought that I didn't know (because, obviously, I'm such a moron) that you copied and pasted it, hence your sarcastic, and somewhat rude (but hey, this is Tristan I'm talking to) attitude, but that was not the case. I simply said "copy paste ftw". I'm sorry my mechanical knowledge does not extend to your levels.

Believe it or not, I agree that you cannot have such infinitly adjustable ratios, but obviously since I'm such a moron, that's irrelevant. I feel the love. :)

[VoiD]

Home 1 : Visitors 0

:D

[Spils]

Perhaps the the road cars should have a choice of a few gearboxes? Short ration, Medium ratio and Long ratio or something like that? ie. Each gearbox has predefined ratios that you cannot alter.


+1 :thumbsup:

I think this should be the standard same for suspension setting.
You get 3 options Soft/Medium/Hard

I really do feel road cars, need there setting options restricted a lot.

[ackzsel]

+1

Imagine 3.571 (which is now possible). 3571 is a prime number, so the minimum number of teeth on the cogs must be 3571/1000! I don't think this will fit in any rl gearbox.

[DragonCommando]

Aftermarket transmissions for most road cars ususaly come in three types. Low speed, High speed and Close ratio.

Any gear kits you can get for road car transmissions will convert the stock transmission to one of these types, and they usualy can't be mixed together.

Custom ratios are possible, but are limited and expensive.

I say +1 to limiting the road cars to only a couple gear sets.

[ponczak]

good idea, but if scawen willn't edit this, i want to back caster and more degree of steer in settings of road cars.
those settings are same "unrealistic" as actually gearbox settings.

[Bob Smith]

Limiting caster and steering lock to realistic ranges is easy, as you can just cap the minimum and maximum values. Gear ratios are not so easy, as we already have bounds caps, and merely allowing only 2 decimal places precision is no better than 3. So what's the solution, to have a huge table of realistic values? OK having just a few available sets for the road cars is fine, but not for F1 with their custom made gearboxes. Some will try and argue that they can't just switch gear ratios every two laps, but the same could be said of most settings. Then there is the issue of how to store this information in the setup, atm it's stored as the raw ratio (stored to 4dp), so any setup editing applications could just put back this flexibility unless extra checks were involved and the setup re-limited upon usage.

[Shotglass]

Gear ratios are not so easy, as we already have bounds caps, and merely allowing only 2 decimal places precision is no better than 3. So what's the solution, to have a huge table of realistic values?

how about rational numbers with limits?... you know kinds like the way gears work

Then there is the issue of how to store this information in the setup, atm it's stored as the raw ratio (stored to 4dp), so any setup editing applications could just put back this flexibility unless extra checks were involved and the setup re-limited upon usage.

save every gear as 2 ints and youre done

[DrBen]

If that prohibits people building ultra-tight, ultra-close gear-ratios they sometimes use to overcome excessive clutch-heat when flat-shiftingly-accelerating on auto-cross layouts -> then I am +1 for limited options on gear ratios. hope I didn't encourage other racers to adapt this unrealistic and painfull (to my ears) method, now :(

However I personally didn't find anything wrong with the current system apart from the auto-x issue as of yet.

[Zen321]

Well I agree that limiting the road car gearboxes to aftermarket choice is a nice option.
Three choices (low speed, long gears and close ratio) seem to be interestingly convenient. However, we would need to keep a larger choice of the Final sprocket, because it is virtually possible to adapt lots of different final sprockets in gearboxes ;)

I would like to see this, only if the devs give us back the possibility of precisely adjusting the differential in the XRG/XFG. We all know that a detroit locker is what the XFG would need, while the XRG could perform excessively well with a 1.5way LSD (80% power / 40% coast). There are lots of aftermarket differential for old cars like this, so I don't understand why changing separately the coast/power is not possible.

[AndroidXP]

how about rational numbers with limits?... you know kinds like the way gears work

save every gear as 2 ints and youre done
Yep, just set the amount of cogs for each gear pair and be done with it.