NEW : Instant Hotlap Analyser at LFS World

[Victor]

Hello all,

There is a new feature on LFS World, i guess primarily for the hotlappers amongst us. It is a hotlap analyser made in Flash that allows you to just select two hotlaps from a chart and analyse them.

You can find it if you go to www.lfsworld.net , open the hotlaps section / hotlap charts, select the hotlap chart of your liking, select two racers for comparison (click the C's next to a racer's flag) and finally click the Instant Hotlap Analyser button that appears to the right (under the quick compare). A new window will open with the Flash analyser.

When the window opens, the selected hotlaps will be loaded. This can take a couple of seconds, even though we have reduced the RAF filesize tenfold.
Speaking about RAF's, we convert all hotlaps from SPR to RAF in the background. When you upload your hotlap, a RAF file will be generated within a minute. RAF files contain a lot of data about your hotlap, which can be used for analysis.

The hotlap analyser for now is in BETA stage. Or well, actually alpha, because there's one feature still missing. But because I cannot get my head around how to display some data, I thought I'd just throw it out there for suggestions.
The missing feature is Wheel Info. You can select it, but it's not good. It works, but it lacks information.
Thing is, it shows you a top-view of your wheels. You can see forces acting on them and you see the air temperature inside the tyres. Problem is, this is not all information available. There is also vertical load and i could display suspension movements.
I thought it would be nice to put it all in one screen, Wheel Info. But perhaps i just need to make two screens, one for top view and one for rear view. But even then i'm not sure how to actually display it :schwitz:

So to conclude, the Hotlap Analyser works fine, but it needs some things still and i was hoping by making the application public, some good comments and suggestions might come in.

NOTE (1) - Some hotlaps will not load in the analyser. This is because they don't exist. Now that we have a background RAF exporter, we can also do actual HLVC (HotLap Validity Check) and OOS (Out Of Sync) checks. Since Scawen improved the wall detection for example, some hotlaps have become HLVC invalid and will soon be removed. The same thing goes for OOS checks. A hotlap going OOS is normally due to the use of cheats. This way we can make sure the hotlap charts will remain cheat free. More on this topic later when we will do the actual removing of the invalidated hotlaps.

NOTE (2) - The setup values controversy.
The idea behind RAF files and this hotlap analyser is to stimulate people to study their driving skills. Because hotlap analysis is now as easy as a couple of clicks, it should become much more attractive and fun to learn how to improve your driving. Part of this is studying basic setup settings. Yes some people regard full suspension values as too much, but it is only half of the full setup, and it is the part that people can learn the most from. Seeing why someone uses a softer or harder suspension on a certain track allows them to better see how suspension works and that it should not be the same for all tracks. These values can also be used in addition with the suspension movement and remaining range graphs in the analyser.
If you really feel that it is a breach of your privacy and do not wish others to learn from your hotlap, then you should not upload your hotlaps to LFS World, or anywhere else for that matter, because these values have been in RAF files ever since the format was created. I don't think we will remove them either.

-------------
I have attached an image with some explanations as to what the buttons at the top of the hotlap analyser do.

[Töki (HUN)]

Perfect! Thanks! :thumb:

[fujiwara]

Wow

[the_angry_angel]

Wooo! Nice work as usual Victor :up:

[AndroidXP]

Well, what can I say.

Awesome. :thumbsup:

E: Is it intended that parts of the suspension setup are viewable?
E2: Apparently it is :doh: :tilt:

[gezmoor]

Brilliant work !!

I particularly like the fact that you can now download the lap in RAF format without having to sit through a replay and create it yourself.
A lot of useful info in there and no need to download a stand alone analyser any more, great stuff.

[Töki (HUN)]

I've noticed that the link to this topic doesn't work. " No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator "

[AndroidXP]

Also, do the forces in the wheel view correspond to LFS' display? Meaning when you accelerate the bars point forward.

Also wouldn't it be more logical to put the front wheels on top? At least when watching a XFR hotlap it's weird that the bottom wheels show all the action - I think top and bottom is reversed there, to be honest.

[Victor]

the front wheels are on top. And yep, the forces point the same way as in LFS (well i checked that back when i made that view)

EDIT - uh wheels are at the bottom all of a sudden .. ehm, ok my bad somehow

[birder]

Fantastic work Victor, as usual......:thumb:

[AndroidXP]

They are okay for the XRT for example, but they're reversed on XFR. Haven't yet checked any other cars, maybe just a minor oversight.

[danowat]

Thats a really nice bit of coding, and a really usefull, easy to use and quick tool.

[Victor]

They are okay for the XRT for example, but they're reversed on XFR. Haven't yet checked any other cars, maybe just a minor oversight.

yeah it appears some cars are reversed. Will look into this soon.

[A.Ulleri]

Dude that's awesome I love it!!!:thumb:

[three_jump]

Would it be possible to release a stand alone version for local use? So I could compare 2 of my own runs and see where I'm constantly changing my driving style :D

Apart from that, really nice stuff Vicc :thumb:

[AndroidXP]

Made a quick check, seems cars with reversed wheel layout are: XFG, XFR, UF1, UFR :)

[Flotch]

wow! impressive!!

[mythdat]

Wow... great stuff Victor

[Tooby]

Thanx!
Really like this. There is one thing I miss, when driving GPL there was a program where you could compare laps and in that program it was possible to "see" the speed difference on track with different colors.

keep up the good work!

[pine-fin]

Too much pretty tables and numbers, takes awhile to figure them all out :schwitz: Thanks for making hotlap viewing easier!

[OldBloke]

I have to ask ...

Why isn't there an 'Announcements' forum section for threads like this?

[Gnomie]

Very nice!! :) Awesome job.

[scipy]

1 suggestion though: for some of the people who would like to see the "traction circle of things".. can you make the little black balls in the G-meters leave a thin trace line that would stay there for like 1 second? So it keeps drawing it, but old parts of the line get deleted as the car drives on. And maybe this too, depeding on the car's ability to pull a G amount, draw a circle with that G value that would remain permanent. So for regular cars it can be at 1.05 or 1.10 G, and for FZR or BF1 it can be 3/4.. basically read the maximum value of the lateral G from the raf and draw a circle with that radius. Can this be done?

[Victor]

I have to ask ...

Why isn't there an 'Announcements' forum section for threads like this?
When it's done, i was planning a news item on lfs.net about it.

1 suggestion though: for some of the people who would like to see the "traction circle of things".. can you make the little black balls in the G-meters leave a thin trace line that would stay there for like 1 second? So it keeps drawing it, but old parts of the line get deleted as the car drives on. And maybe this too, depeding on the car's ability to pull a G amount, draw a circle with that G value that would remain permanent. So for regular cars it can be at 1.05 or 1.10 G, and for FZR or BF1 it can be 3/4.. basically read the maximum value of the lateral G from the raf and draw a circle with that radius. Can this be done?

I think that's possible yes. Noted.

[Victor]

Made a quick check, seems cars with reversed wheel layout are: XFG, XFR, UF1, UFR :)

thanks. The cars should all face the same way now.

[traxxion]

Erm.... WOW. Great job Victor!

[Victor]

Would it be possible to release a stand alone version for local use? So I could compare 2 of my own runs and see where I'm constantly changing my driving style :D

Apart from that, really nice stuff Vicc :thumb:

maybe in the end, but for now i'll just keep it as a online hotlap analyser only. Besides, with flash you can only either load stuff from the network or local filesystem. Not both. So if you want offline analysis, you're best off getting one of the existing analysers.

[balee]

Many thanks Victor!
A suggestion: brake should be red, cluch should be blue like inside LFS.
Need a Handbrake line too. Else make brake line turn grey or black when someone handbraking.

Cheers!

[migf1]

LRA embed in LFSW! Thumbs up and thanks!

[balee]

OMG!!! Fast work Vic! :tilt:

[LiveForBoobs]

Very very nice, and useful!

Great work Victor ^^

Btw: Would it be possible to add some kind of zoom in to the graphs? Like the mouse scroll on the maps for instance.

[BBO@BSR]

:smileypul Wow
Great work Victor :thumb:

[The Radness]

You guys never cease to amaze me. Always something amazing and unexpected. Now I have even more stuff to look at while I put of work. :D

[-Willi-]

Is it ok that you show all Setup-Info?
Afaik its not possible in LFS to see any of these informations, with these anyone is able to rebuild a setup. Or am I missing something?

[wsinda]

yeah it appears some cars are reversed. Will look into this soon.http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=724960#post724960
Is it ok that you show all Setup-Info?
Afaik its not possible in LFS to see any of these informations, with these anyone is able to rebuild a setup. Or am I missing something?The setup data is present in the RAF files, so they are already available to anyone. BTW, it's not the complete setup: camber, caster, diff lock, and tyre pressure are missing, to name a few. You can't reverse-engineer a complete setup with it.

[zeromussov]

Wow, great work Victor.

I think there's still a bug in the V\ + option. (if you close all the screens (menus), you can't get the first screen(menu) back... it only opens the brake/kmH menu 4 times)

btw, is it possible to move the x (exit in V\+ menu) to above each menu ?)

[marzman]

Very cool feature :)

[Gabkicks]

cool :) is there an option to rewind/play in reverse?

[Victor]

no, for now, just click / drag in the graph areas

[Victor]

Wow, great work Victor.

I think there's still a bug in the V\ + option. (if you close all the screens (menus), you can't get the first screen(menu) back... it only opens the brake/kmH menu 4 times)

btw, is it possible to move the x (exit in V\+ menu) to above each menu ?)

hmm i don't experience that bug. Anyone else gets this?

i think i'll leave the X button where it is. There will probably be more buttons and there's not always room at the top of a content area.

[MaKaKaZo]

Suggestions:

1. Two graphs that I find specially useful in LFS Replay Analyser are "Camber" and "Wheel angle". It would be nice to have something similar.
2. To be able to play the lap faster than 1x speed, like in-game replays you could also put 2x and 4x, so it's faster to play longer laps.

[Kid222]

Oh My God.. that is so great!! Thank you!:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Jadran]

Great job Victor!:thumb:

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

Really great! Thank you! Keep up the good work!

[Megin]

This is mutch more easier like using raf files made from hotlaps and than analyze it in LFS replay analyser. Thanx for that! :thumb:

[DJ TimmY]

very nice work victor :thumb:
but i have a problem, i usually use firefox, but it doesnt work on it.
i tried internet explorer and there it works...
can someone help me to get it work on firefox?

thanks in advance.

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

very nice work victor :thumb:
but i have a problem, i usually use firefox, but it doesnt work on it.
i tried internet explorer and there it works...
can someone help me to get it work on firefox?

thanks in advance.

Do you have the latest Flash player installed for Firefox? It works fine here in FF.

[DJ TimmY]

yes i have.

[DJ TimmY]

oooh, deleted cookies and temporary internet data and it works now :D

[KanseiDneova]

Sweet Victor, very useful and easy to read

[evilpimp]

Great work once again :D

One possible bug that I found and here is a pic:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w109/MistaTea/rafaBug.jpg

So when I click on KPH it puts MPH and when I click on MPH it puts KPH. Is it a bug or ment to be like that?

[szyszek]

I just discovered this feature by accident..

I find it extremely useful, fantastic work!

[Rooble]

Top stuff Victor, its pretty bloody impressive. :thumb:

[Hyperactive]

Good stuff!

A request: Could it be made so that you can zoom into the graphs?

[marzman]

Good stuff!

A request: Could it be made so that you can zoom into the graphs?
I can zoom in and out of the right top screen allready (with scrollwheel).

[filur]

So cool!, fantastic work Victor :) :thumb:

[Rotareneg]

Very cool! :up:

Noticed a couple bugs: The MPH/KPH selection doesn't effect the speed graph, it always displays KPH. Also, on Kyoto Oval forward, the g-force meters on the overview page are scaled to just 1 g.

[Jakg]

Wow.

'nuff said.

[Leandrus]

OMG... this is great :bowdown::headbang:

[chanoman315]

What a didnt find was the % of brake, tat the replay analayzer shows (The app). In the other hand is great!

[Intrepid]

Fantastic work very very very good!

[Glenn67]

Very easy to use, quite useful and convinient. Will save me time and help speed up learning new combos :thumb:

[e2mustang]

wow very nice Victor! thank you! :thumb:

[cmckowen]

...hotlap analyser made in Flash...

a really usefull, easy to use and quick tool.

WOW. Great job Victor!

Cant say more, just excellent job! :thumb:

[Hyperactive]

I can zoom in and out of the right top screen allready (with scrollwheel).

I meant the graphs which show speed, acceleration etc.. The map zooms in fine.

[Victor]

I meant the graphs which show speed, acceleration etc.. The map zooms in fine.

it's on my list

[SpaceMarineITA]

Great work! :thumb:

just 2 suggestions for now:

- X axis graph zoom :D (and Y axis too)

- In the traction circle, can u make an option for retaining all the points registered at the end of the lap?

like in that image
http://fish.alekhine.free.fr/MotecAdd/Pro/TractionCircle_MotecAddPro.jpg

or in that one
http://www.simhq.com/_motorsports3/images/motorsports_090a_013t.jpg

I have a third suggestion but it is a bit complex to explain, will try to find time for writing it tomorrow, it's related to istograms

[scania]

The G Force meter have some problem...

[Victor]

yes someone already mentioned. It's fixed in my version.
But, bedtime now.

[Nick A]

Wow! Excellent work Victor! I never thought an application like this would be made available online. The automatic RAF creation is a fantastic addition too.

One thing that I would love to see added is a time graph though. This is the graph I find most useful in LRA as it enables you to quickly see where on the track you are loosing time.

[nesrulz]

Great job Victor! :wow:
THX!

[Speedy Pro]

That's fabulous, thanks Victor!

[FOX 1977]

Excellent tool !! :thumb:
The only thing that i can see that maybe is missing(imo) is a mini window option to see the replay with the usual track camera. Maybe the slowest car could be the "ghost" one.

[Psymonhilly]

Very nice work :)
i'm impressed :thumb:

[510N3D]

really nice tool :) Love the live window and the track elevation graph is quite interesting and not part of other analyzers as far as i know. Just one suggestion, would it be possible to place the speed above the g-meter at a better position for a easier comparing? Like from the left driver to the right side and from the right driver to the left side. Also RPM in numbers together with the speed would be nice.

Oh and a zoom function for the graphs would be nice ;) (edit: ops has already been suggested)

[IDUI]

:wow:
It's perfect for LFSW. Thank you Victor.

[titanLS]

Just tried it out. Very nice addition!

[Kid222]

And what about icon on LFS Desktop? Analyser would launch empty window only with "Load" button or Hotlap chart from where you can select two HL to compare.
Just to make this feature more visible.:scratchch

[BinBalde]

Very nice ! Thanks Victor!!! :thumb:

[Victor]

-Added graph zooming along x axis (use mousewheel - i guess i need to add buttons too for mac users)
-Adding a new graph now opens a screen you weren't already viewing
-Space bar toggles play / stop
-Removed crosshair in trackmap area

-fixed G display bug where the grid would be too small
-fixed Kph / Mph indication on Speed graph
-fixed Throttle/Brake/Clutch bug where the graph range would not always be from 0 - 100%

Still to do :
-Traction circle
-When replaying, make a zoomed graph follow the racing position (optional)
-Add a button for the trackmap area to follow red / follow blue / follow first / follow none
-Something to make the wheel info view better

[baSh0r]

AWESOME Victor!

[510N3D]

good stuff :thumb:

[NotAnIllusion]

Great tool :)

[evilpimp]

Great :)

[MaKaKaZo]

NOTE (1) - Some hotlaps will not load in the analyser. This is because they don't exist. Now that we have a background RAF exporter, we can also do actual HLVC (HotLap Validity Check) and OOS (Out Of Sync) checks. Since Scawen improved the wall detection for example, some hotlaps have become HLVC invalid and will soon be removed. The same thing goes for OOS checks. A hotlap going OOS is normally due to the use of cheats. This way we can make sure the hotlap charts will remain cheat free. More on this topic later when we will do the actual removing of the invalidated hotlaps.

This means that invalid hotlaps will not be accepted when you try to upload them in the future? I mean, right now some cleaning will be done but in the future it will be done automatically when you upload the lap so it doesn't ever appear in the charts.

[Warper]

Very nice work... thats great stuff! :) Thanks Victor!

[Victor]

This means that invalid hotlaps will not be accepted when you try to upload them in the future? I mean, right now some cleaning will be done but in the future it will be done automatically when you upload the lap so it doesn't ever appear in the charts.

they would upload, but then be removed again within a minute.

[FL!P]

Excellent, Victor! Beautifully done!

-Added graph zooming along x axis (use mousewheel - i guess i need to add buttons too for mac users)
Many Mac users have scrollwheels or can emulate them with their trackpads, but for some reason the zooming doesn't work on any of my Macs (that is both with an emulated and a physical scrollwheel).


-Something to make the wheel info view better
Would it be possible to make it look like 3D? Something like the forces view combined with the chase view in LFS. That would allow to show everything in one screen,

[Victor]

Excellent, Victor! Beautifully done!


Many Mac users have scrollwheels or can emulate them with their trackpads, but for some reason the zooming doesn't work on any of my Macs (that is both with an emulated and a physical scrollwheel).


So zooming the trackmap in the analyser doesn't work either? And in the Remote, can you zoom there with your Mac's mousewheel? (emulated or not)
Just trying to figure out if the mousewheel works at all in Flash, on a Mac (i think not) (edit - indeed it doesn't. You need to use Javascript to get it working eheh - maybe later then)

[FL!P]

Zooming doesn't work anywhere. I tried LFS Remote too, from lfsWorld, and zooming doesn't work either. But it does works in the standalone version of Remote. So the problem is probably in the Flash plugin rather than in your code.

[SpikeyMarcoD]

Zooming works fine here with scrollwheel. Just click in the minimap first.

[Jakg]

Zooming works fine here with scrollwheel. Just click in the minimap first.Are you on a Mac, though?

[dawesdust_12]

So zooming the trackmap in the analyser doesn't work either? And in the Remote, can you zoom there with your Mac's mousewheel? (emulated or not)
Just trying to figure out if the mousewheel works at all in Flash, on a Mac (i think not) (edit - indeed it doesn't. You need to use Javascript to get it working eheh - maybe later then)


Victor, it DOES work, but only in Fullscreen mode, not while running in a window. (Atleast from my experience with LFSRemote.)

[SpikeyMarcoD]

On a MAC i assume then cause i have no problem to zoom in windows. Just make sure the remote/analyzer window is active/selected.

Come to Bill people.....

[Victor]

-Added traction circle and a fading Gforce tail. Have not yet made the overall picture.
-New button 'SF' in the options bar to toggle Scroll Follow (scroll zoomed graph while playing)
-Added button to trackmap to toggle which car to follow. Leader, red, blue or none.

[theo3000]

When an .spr file is downloaded from then analyzer - LFS gives an "Invalid Header" error when selecting the file for replay. The file is OK when it's downloaded directly from the hotlap chart, so it's just a small inconvenience.

[Victor]

fixed that.

[FL!P]

In the Setup Info area, the values for the front are on the left and the values for the rear are on the right. That's the opposite of where they are in LFS, which makes it harder to use when you compare a set in LFS with one in Instant Hotlap Analyser.

[Victor]

ok i've swapped them.

[FL!P]

Excellent, thank you!

[theo3000]

ok i've swapped them.
It looks like the data's been swapped, but the "Front" and "Rear" captions have not.

[chanoman315]

NEW : Instant Hotlap Analyser
chanoman315's hotlap was not valid and will soon be removed.
Please select another racer for comparison


Why? Combo: SO4R@XRT.

[AndroidXP]

Probably an updated HLVC check. Some South City walls allowed too much contact.

[Victor]

yep, at the start you already hit some walls, invalidating your lap. I've written a bit about this in my original post of this thread.

[Scawen]

Just some extra info about that - the soft walls that make a "thud" instead of a scraping sound now invalidate HLVC. Several South City hotlaps were affected by this.

If you use Test Patch Y18, the same check is used in Y18 and the RAF exporter / replay checker.

[Stigpt]

Suggestion: a second Sync button, just to put the cars again side-by-side, then let them move freely. (Currently Sync makes car be side-by-side the whole time its on).

This so you can compare your hotlap to the WR in one particular corner, and see where you lost time. This can be done in the first corner, but after than, the WR car just drives away and you cant compare side-by-side (for example, cant compare where WR started braking, etc).

[Renku]

yep, at the start you already hit some walls, invalidating your lap. I've written a bit about this in my original post of this thread.Is EVERY hotlap already 'scanned' or is the process long? Found two invalid LX4 WR's..

Just some extra info about that - the soft walls that make a "thud" instead of a scraping sound now invalidate HLVC. Several South City hotlaps were affected by this.
Did you make the wall in FE2 soft, too?

[Victor]

yes. Every hotlap has already been checked and marked if invalid, so we can easily remove them soon. You can see if one is marked as invalid by trying to open them in the analyser. There will be a message like chanoman315 saw.

And yeah all walls are affected. For example on Aston Club there's some invalid hotlaps too now.

[chanoman315]

yes. Every hotlap has already been checked and marked if invalid, so we can easily remove them soon. You can see if one is marked as invalid by trying to open them in the analyser. There will be a message like chanoman315 saw.


Well, are you guys going to send pm's to know which laps?.... and you could send a pm or lfsworld message like the one of confirmation in S2, but to let us know our replays were invalid.

[Victor]

when they're removed we will send emails.

[chanoman315]

when they're removed we will send emails.
thanks :thumb: ...
BTW when is the raf file going to support 7th gear of the BF1

[Renku]

And yeah all walls are affected. For example on Aston Club there's some invalid hotlaps too now.
Cool, thanks!

To make this post useful...
On long Aston tracks, sometimes the 'map' disappears at max zoom in the last U-turn, picture (http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=55988&stc=1&d=1210714572). Picture taken on reversed config, but same place. Couldn't find a pattern and it isn't a big problem, but..

[Victor]

yeah. It's some problem when zooming in a lot combined with big bitmaps in flash. It doesn't like that for some reason. Can't really get around it unless i limit the zooming range more, which isn't nice. Another theoretical option is to split up the trackmap into smaller pieces. This works -you can zoom in further then- but requires a lot more CPU to move the map. So the current situation is the least bad, for as far as I can tell at the moment anyway.

[Victor]

thanks :thumb: ...
BTW when is the raf file going to support 7th gear of the BF1

I count 7 gears?

[510N3D]

Just some extra info about that - the soft walls that make a "thud" instead of a scraping sound now invalidate HLVC. Several South City hotlaps were affected by this.

If you use Test Patch Y18, the same check is used in Y18 and the RAF exporter / replay checker.

Im curious about my hotlap in SO6/FO8. In the hotlap when i left the chicane i barely hit the wall (think it was the right rear tire) and got a minor change in the line due to that.

Is any contact with walls/ objects going to be invalid or is there a limit or "grey zone" ? Sorry if that has been explained already somewhere.

[chanoman315]

I count 7 gears?
oops sorry, the old replay analyzer i used didnt count it, it was with a "-" sign, i tought raf files couldnt read that info, since it's the only one with 7th gears.

[Victor]

Im curious about my hotlap in SO6/FO8. In the hotlap when i left the chicane i barely hit the wall (think it was the right rear tire) and got a minor change in the line due to that.

Is any contact with walls/ objects going to be invalid or is there a limit or "grey zone" ? Sorry if that has been explained already somewhere.

it's not marked as invalid, so it must've been ok to hit the wall ever so lightly (if that's what you did)

[510N3D]

ok cheers for the quick reply. :thumb:

[Powered by AMD]

Amazing Stuff, as always Victor, Thanks, many thanks !!, Im learning a lot with this.

[Victor]

Wheel view update :

I've made it in simple 3D now. Grab with mouse to rotate around.
If 'follow rotation' is on, the objects will rotate along with the cars (while replaying) and you will only be able to manually tilt the objects.
With 'follow rotation' off, you can manually rotate and tilt the objects.

Unfortunately I cannot dynamically colour the force indicators. There is not enough information available for that.

[FL!P]

Wow, that's brilliant!

[Victor]

i wonder how useful it really is though. Those forces are fun to watch, but you can't really tell anything from them...

[MaKaKaZo]

i wonder how useful it really is though. Those forces are fun to watch, but you can't really tell anything from them...
Maybe if you could make some graphs out from that info so we can compare. As you say they are fun to watch, but just 'playing' it doesn't give much valuable info :shrug:

[FL!P]

Still great Flash development! And it's much better than the previous wheels view.

[wsinda]

i wonder how useful it really is though. Those forces are fun to watch, but you can't really tell anything from them...It will become useful if Scawen adds data on the adhesion limit to the RAF file.

[Meanie]

Victor is my favourite Developer! :nod:
:shy:


Great stuff, thanks a lot. :)

[Victor]

It will become useful if Scawen adds data on the adhesion limit to the RAF file.

hm yeah. Though i fear that would break RAF compatibility. There are only 3 unused bytes in the dymanic wheel block, and I can imagine this value should be a float.
In other words, not a simple fix.

OR if it doesn't need to be very precise, a short could do and then it would be comptible. I guess I'll mail scawen the url to these posts :)

[Tobsen00]

Shoop da Whoop!

Thank you!

[Victor]

Maybe if you could make some graphs out from that info so we can compare. As you say they are fun to watch, but just 'playing' it doesn't give much valuable info :shrug:

i could add graphs for those values. But imo that's hard to read as well. You'd get 12 additional graphs for just the 3 forces per wheel. How can you compare that nicely? :) You can't put 12 graphs underneath one another. And drawing more than 1 graph in an area will make things hard to read as well.
That's why i thought it might be nice to come up with an all-in-one view for forces and temperatures. But as long as there are no grip values to compare the forces to, it's all kinda meaningless.
So wsinda's proposal makes the most practical sense to me atm. Though I don't know how practically feasible this is atm.

[wsinda]

Though i fear that would break RAF compatibility.In the RAF format definition, the block sizes are not fixed; the block sizes are given in the header. It ought to be possible to append data to the dynamic wheel block without breaking existing apps (provided they were programmed correctly).
There are only 3 unused bytes in the dymanic wheel block, and I can imagine this value should be a float.There are 3 forces (lat, long, load), so that's 1 byte for each force. Let that encode for its colour in the forces view inside LFS (e.g. 0x00 = green, 0x80 = yellow, 0xff = red).

[legoflamb]

Amazing, nice addition to the LFSW.

[wsinda]

Misc remarks:
Something weird (graphically) happens when I select "Show all" from the Flash context menu.
Could the splitter bar between the map and the graphs be a bit wider? It's hard to position the mouse on it.
A steering gauge is missing from the "Overview" display.

[wsinda]

There is a problem with the RAF file that you can download. This RAF file has a sample frequency of 10Hz, against 100Hz for the standard RAF files from LFS. (The RAF file was probably condensed to save download time in the LFSW Analyser.)

When you load this file into another analyser, the analyser reads less samples, and will calculate a lap time that is 1/10th of the actual time. One effect is weird values for Longitudinal G force (10 times too high).

(The real cause is the fact that the sample frequency is not stated in the RAF file. Existing analysers have 100Hz hard-wired.)

Possible solutions:
Add the frequency to the RAF format.
Download the full RAF file (if it is still available).

[Victor]

Download the full RAF file (if it is still available).[/LIST]

not on our server. We only store the 10hz versions.
but yes, I guess the rate should be stored. Plenty of room in the header for that though.

btw, we store GForces in the RAF now. Only at one byte though, so it's a bit grainy, but it's there.
We'll update the RAF format specs with patch Z, but here's the updated part for gforces :

DATA BLOCKS : 192 bytes (B) every Nth of a second

1 float 0 throttle : 0 to 1
1 float 4 brake : 0 to 1
1 float 8 input steer : radians
1 float 12 clutch : 0 to 1
1 float 16 handbrake : 0 to 1
1 byte 20 gear : 0=R, 1=N, 2=first gear
1 char 21 lateral G * 20 : -120 to 120 = -6 to 6 G
1 char 22 forward G * 20 : -120 to 120 = -6 to 6 G
1 char 23 upwards G * 20 : -120 to 120 = -6 to 6 G
1 float 24 speed : m/s
...etc

[wsinda]

btw, we store GForces in the RAF now. Only at one byte though, so it's a bit grainy, but it's there.Thanks!

[Kancel]

omg......this is amazing :bounce8:

[Victor]

Possible solutions:
Add the frequency to the RAF format.

The byte for raf data interval is included now :

HEADER BLOCK : 1024 bytes (A)

6 char 0 LFSRAF : do not read file if no match
1 byte 6 game version : ignore
1 byte 7 game revision : ignore
1 byte 8 RAF version (2) : do not read if increased
1 byte 9 update interval : ms (normally 10 / hlvc 100)
2 byte 10 0 :
etc...

Additionally, a so called 'slip fraction' byte, for force colouring, has been added to the dynamic wheel info block :

snip....
1 byte 28 air temperature : degrees C
1 byte 29 slip fraction : (0 to 255 - see below)
snip...

Slip fraction
-------------
This is the dynamic value of the current combined slip ratio relative
to the combined slip ratio that would provide the greatest force.

0 to 254 - slip ratio increasing up to maximum force available
255 - slip ratio exceeds the maximum force slip ratio

I'm currently exporting all hotlaps again, so they will be updated with that info. Will take a day or so though.

[wsinda]

Slip fraction
-------------
This is the dynamic value of the current combined slip ratio relative
to the combined slip ratio that would provide the greatest force.

0 to 254 - slip ratio increasing up to maximum force available
255 - slip ratio exceeds the maximum force slip ratio
Can anyone explain what this combined slip ratio means? Can I view it as the fraction of the "traction budget" that has been used? Or is it really a slip ratio, i.e. a ratio between the actual motion of the wheel and the motion of the car (and if so, how is it combined)?

[Scawen]

Can I view it as the fraction of the "traction budget" that has been used?Yes, that is all you can view it as (and only approximately that - because it is curved - so double that value does not give double the force).

It is the same as the value used to draw the force colours in LFS forces view.

Exactly how it relates to forces is impossible to describe, I'd have to post the whole tyre / slip / forces algorithm.

[Bob Smith]

Exactly how it relates to forces is impossible to describe, I'd have to post the whole tyre / slip / forces algorithm.
Oh, go on then! :D :razz:

[Victor]

Oh, go on then! :D :razz:

saw that one coming from 200 miles away :D

[webdigga]

This really is very very good!

[gezmoor]

I appologise if this has already been mentioned, (and appologise again if it already does it and i'm just being blind), but it would be good if the graphs could have a track position (ie distance) as well as time. Time makes it difficult to compare braking points and throttle positions because faster/slower drivers will reach the same points on the circuit at different times.

To clarify. Could we have the X-Axis have distance as an option for the Gear/Throttle/Brake/Speed graphs etc. Rather than time as it is currently.


Edit - Scrap that, I've just found the Sync button. :x

Thanks.

[Braker]

perfect!!!

nice tool.. Thanks!!


:thumb:
:thumb:
:thumb:

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Just starting to use this new feature and it really has elevated LFSworld in my world, great work :thumb:

[r4ptor]

Just saw this now (tells how active I've been lately :shy:) - It's a great addition to LFSW, and finally nice to just hop in and do some quick comparisons.:thumb:

[gp4racer]

this guys never sleep! thanks alot

[arco]

The converting process seems to be stuck. None of the hotlaps uploaded the past couple of days have been converted.

[Victor]

meh right. It's back up again and catching up with a day of spr's.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Not sure if this is a bug (or just possible software on this OS causing it) at a friends house which causes IE excpetion on loading of Link for IHA.



Strange this is only happens after a reboot , its the first thing loaded in IE .. after the initial excpetion it runs fine... :shrug:

[Victor]

That's search_glow that's causing the error. Search_glow is part of the windows live toolbar. If you google a bit for 'search glow' you'll find a lot of information on the topic including how to disable it.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Aha .. I had suspicion it was somthing along those lines, just thought odd as only happens after machine has been rebooted and its first thing loaded into adress bar.:shrug:

Anyways was just thinking ....is it/would it possible to output temps of the tyres for IHA ?

Would be quite infomative to see where tyres take most punishment/wear. :scratchch

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

Aha .. I had suspicion it was somthing along those lines, just thought odd as only happens after machine has been rebooted and its first thing loaded into adress bar.:shrug:

Anyways was just thinking ....is it/would it possible to output temps of the tyres for IHA ?

Would be quite infomative to see where tyres take most punishment/wear. :scratchch

You can see tyre temps at the wheel view window.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Aha thanks for that, feel even more stupid then ever now :)

[baSh0r]

We wrote a short article about the new Hotlap Analyser and asked some LFS-Racers.

http://teaminferno.hu/?p_section=olvas&p_news_id=472

enjoy.

[Victor]

Please can some people try the 'stand alone' version : http://www.lfsworld.net/rafa/ and let me know if there's something wrong or if you have any suggestions.
When you load that url, the analyser will give you a track and car selection screen after which you can load the hotlaps. This is for a stand alone version of the analyser and also so I can create a shortcut to the analyser on the lfsw desktop, rather than only having it available after going to the hotlap charts and clicking two hotlaps.

[Flame CZE]

Nice work Victor ! Working good

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

The standalone version is working fine here.
I have some suggestions for the graphs. When you zoom in, the cursor just goes out at the side of the screen. Could you make a switch that switches between three modes?
The three modes would be like in Adobe Premiere Pro(but maybe renamed :)).

Auto-scrolling mode:

No scroll
Same as now.

Page Scroll
As the cursor goes out at the side of the screen it switches to the
next "page".

Smooth Scroll
It follows the cursor and centers it on the screen.

Also it would be good if we could move the horizontal side of the graphs to make them bigger or smaller relative to each other and it would be fantastic if we could make presets of the configuration (added graphs, settings, etc..) of the Hotlap Analyser. These presets would be saved on LFSWorld on our account and we could switch between them in the Analyser.

I hope my ideas are worth considering.

Thank you for your great work!

[wsinda]

The standalone version is working fine here, except for two minor issues:
I have Firefox. When I have the analyser running and open a second browser tab, the window height decreases (because the tab toolbar is opened). The analyser does not respond to this change, and the bottommost 20 pixels become invisible. (This might be a quirk in FF.)
I'm missing a possibility to choose a different car/track combo. You can do that by refreshing the page, but it would be nice if the combo display (at the right of the analyser's toolbar) would be a button, leading back to the combo selection screen.Some other suggestions:
Camber display (in a graph)
Possibility to move the cursor by clicking in the map
Possibility to reset the zoom of a graph (e.g. with a scrollwheel-click)

[Kid222]

I have Firefox. When I have the analyser running and open a second browser tab, the window height decreases (because the tab toolbar is opened). The analyser does not respond to this change, and the bottommost 20 pixels become invisible. (This might be a quirk in FF.)Same here, also FF 2.0....14


I'm missing a possibility to choose a different car/track combo. You can do that by refreshing the page, but it would be nice if the combo display (at the right of the analyser's toolbar) would be a button, leading back to the combo selection screen.
+1 for that, would be nice.

Anyways, very good job, i was waiting for standalone version of this. :) Thank you.

Camber display (in a graph)
AFAIK camber isn't saved in .raf file, so it cannot be showed in analyser.

[Victor]

;816757']The standalone version is working fine here.
I have some suggestions for the graphs. When you zoom in, the cursor just goes out at the side of the screen. Could you make a switch that switches between three modes?
The three modes would be like in Adobe Premiere Pro(but maybe renamed :)).

Auto-scrolling mode:

No scroll
Same as now.

Page Scroll
As the cursor goes out at the side of the screen it switches to the
next "page".

Smooth Scroll
It follows the cursor and centers it on the screen.

there's a button called SF (scroll follow) on the menu bar, next to the playspeed selector. It's the equivalent of the Smooth Scroll you mention.

[Victor]

I have Firefox. When I have the analyser running and open a second browser tab, the window height decreases (because the tab toolbar is opened). The analyser does not respond to this change, and the bottommost 20 pixels become invisible. (This might be a quirk in FF.)

pretty sure that's a FF bug. In flash I simply capture the resize event to resize the window. Apparently it's not received then. OR flash reports the wrong window dimensions. Either way, there's little if nothing I can do about that. Will have a look though to see if i get any resize event or wrong dimensions in the first place.

Possibility to reset the zoom of a graph (e.g. with a scrollwheel-click)
unfortunately flash doesn't support mousewheel click events. I suppose i could put the functionality under a key though.

[_--NZ--_[HUN]]

there's a button called SF (scroll follow) on the menu bar, next to the playspeed selector. It's the equivalent of the Smooth Scroll you mention.

Sorry I didn't notice that.

[wsinda]

AFAIK camber isn't saved in .raf file, so it cannot be showed in analyser.
Not the "Camber adjust" setting from the setup, but the live camber ("lean rel. to road") certainly is in the RAF file.

[Victor]

added live camber graphs and it now remembers which graphs you had open when you reload the analyser.

[duke_toaster]

Victor, is there any chance of replacing the stop symbol on the play pause button with the standard pause (the two vertical lines)? I feel like when I'm clicking it it will go back to the start so I have to continue watching :p

[Victor]

i guess so, but why? Is it bothering you in some way? :) Or just because it's not really stopping, but pausing?

[duke_toaster]

i guess so, but why? Is it bothering you in some way? :) Or just because it's not really stopping, but pausing?

The latter. It's not really bothering me, I just couldn't help noticing it :D

[Victor]

there, then.

[dawesdust_12]

Vic, a little thought that clicked into my head, what about comparing hotlaps across cars, EG XRG with XFG? Is that possible to be done in an intuitive way?

EDIT: It is possibly by manipulating the URL's.

[Victor]

I've added a ? button to the analyser that links to a page on www.lfsmanual.net (http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Hotlap_Analyser). I hope some people can add a few tips to the end of the page as well, to show newcomers a few tricks to get them started.
If you have some text, but don't know how to add it to the wiki, you can send your text to us (here on this thread or via our contact form on lfs.net) and I'll update it.

[Victor]

Vic, a little thought that clicked into my head, what about comparing hotlaps across cars, EG XRG with XFG? Is that possible to be done in an intuitive way?

EDIT: It is possibly by manipulating the URL's.

hmmmmmz, maybe. Atm i'm actually implicitly making sure rafs are always from the same track/car. I think i did that because most car combinations don't make much sense to compare. Even your example would only be a little useful because they're two totally different cars in the sense that one is fwd and the other rwd. So I dunno if i want to open up car selections.

[tristancliffe]

Perhaps open them up within classes - XFG & XRG, TBO, Mini-GTRs, GTRs, single seaters separately, and the FZ5 & RAC...

No point comparing XFG to BF1, but might be worth comparing XRR to FXR, for example.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Not a bad idea to group the possible comparisons with the current catagories. Quite useful it could be.

[Victor]

myeah could do that. But I'll keep that for a later update then because it'll need a bigger change in the UI. I wanna get this 'done' and post that news about it ;)

[TheChad]

Awesome!!!!!!!!! :thumb:

[Victor]

OK, I've just cleaned the hotlap charts. All hotlaps that were marked as HLVC invalid or OOS by the background hotlap checker have now been removed (a little over 400).

[Ondrejko]

RAC hotlaps doesnt show up

[Victor]

thanks, that's fixed.

[Gener_AL (UK)]

:D noticed a new Icon on LFSworld

Just a quick mock up of some ideas following on from suggestion of comparing other class cars.

http://demoncomputers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/stuff/idea.jpg



Basically clicking on "compare rank" would then goto screen> with driver list from there click the two drivers to compare (or just one if ticked box). Then list the tracks for the compared drivers then click the track > loads both rafs to compare.
The same for "compare racer" except, maybe just lists available hotlaps to compare if any. *edit* only issue is when large amounts are available to compare, how can they be filtered without multiple menus.*
And "search racers" to check a racers hotlaps ?

workable or not ? :shrug:

[Victor]

you daredevil with your huge inline image! Please upload it as attachment or so.

Yeah I think I know how to handle the car categories. It involves changing the chart display as well.
I like the different selection procedure idea, with the buddy and rank options. Need to think about that a bit though because your image confuses me, but i get what you mean :) It can do with a better separation i think - it would need to be clear that you either select straight from a chart, or first do a preselection of a group of racers and then give the possible chart options (if i understood you correctly). The buddy and rank options would act much like a filter i think?

[Töki (HUN)]

Thanks for the improvements Victor! :thumb:

[Gener_AL (UK)]

ok added as link , sorry :shy:

It can be confusing as that image alters the obvious selection proccess. (with hindsight really moving it below the car selection would of made it easier)

So i made another idea screenie to make it a bit easier to follow
see here > http://demoncomputers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/stuff/idea1.jpg

For the buddy filter , once selected the "buddy" , for now lets say its also set to compare to ones self. Then i pressume next screen would be list of hotlaps, (would it be possible that clicking the track buttons would then allow further filtering (if so would all tracks button be needed?)

The Rank Filter mm not sure how best it would be to use that. Primarily i thought that perhaps, it could be used to list the rank table for chosen selection e.g. XRT, then selecting the driver will then list laps done for that rank and then user can chose which ones to investigate.:scratchch

Also not sure if other people found the OK button location a bit odd. I thought below cars and at far right would be more natural (as it is in the game)

Anyhow i think i need a coffee or smth :nod:


*edit*

Heres alternative layout, at moment feels like the Buttons for the tracks need 50% less width would make it far easier to organise the spaces on a smaller display, although with 22" (1650x1080) works ok as it is.

Here is the layout ammendment.
http://demoncomputers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/stuff/idea1_layout.jpg

[Urgentemente]

I've just started getting back into LFS after rebuilding PC at xmas,
so a nice little suprise I got on lfsworld yesterday when I saw the new analyser. Excellent work Victor, although I had used the old method previously this is obviously so much quicker and easier.
Only one problem now, I'll have to stop myself reviewing laps when I'm at work!!

[Fuse5]

What about this? (see attachment)

Categorizing cars would divide it neatly into 3 columns, using the screen space more optimal, design-wise better looking, as being better organized & it is even contractable in width if needed.
(UF1 & MRT being together as uncategorized. This is just an idea, no need to start as discussion about categorizing cars.)
There is room for the track configs between the tracks and cars columns, and the OK button can be adjusted to be even bigger. :nod:

(Why is Aston all of a sudden called racetrack and the rest of the tracks don't have fancy surnames?) And the yellow tint on the mouse-over track buttons in off state is a bit odd. Compared to the blueness around. So the usual desaturate overlays or a blueish tint would look better.

Adaptable to different screen sizes, as it neatly fits into my 1440x900 screen, should fit into 768x height screen. And obviously will fit into anything larger.

(if it doesn't, it might need some static top and bottom margins, and if the window or the screen is smaller, then the thumbs would resize. But i guess that is an extreme option)

[Juls]

Brilliant tool!

Very intuitive, very useful, fast and nice.
Other sims do not have a user friendly, integrated analyser.

This is another strong point for LFS and should be proudly advertised !

[Gener_AL (UK)]

One other idea i dont think has been mentioned is the ability to compare more then 2 rafs/hotlaps :scratchch

using 3 for example.

1.WR hotlap
2.Another fast hotlap with faster sector then WR hotlap
3.Your hotlap

Just thinking out aloud really now, but viewing the top 3 would be nice
but then where do you stop ? how many should be comparable ?
:scratchch
-----

@Fuse, I liked the layout made sense to with the structure of cars etc in classes. i Guess that there a few more changes yet perhaps.

@vicc is there a test page or smth you have setup ? if you ever need tester for this project id be more then willing to help where i could :thumbsup:

@myself Stop dreaming! :nod:

[SV 84]

Nice and useful feature... :thumb:

[Victor]

One other idea i dont think has been mentioned is the ability to compare more then 2 rafs/hotlaps :scratchch


I started out with the ability to load multiple rafs at once, but it quickly became a mess and hard to read the graphs, so i stuck to just 2. That made the overview, wheel view and setupinfo screens a whole lot easier to make as well.


-------

As for the comments and suggestions so far, thanks a lot. I will think about it all a bit.

[Fox 2]

Suggestion:

New graph - time difference. I think it will be useful, to be able to see immediately where u're faster or slower than WR for example. And it'll be easier to use than speed graph, since it'll only have one line. Speed graph also may be less helpful in some hard technical sections.

[El_TaxMaN]

Suggestion:

New graph - time difference. I think it will be useful, to be able to see immediately where u're faster or slower than WR for example. And it'll be easier to use than speed graph, since it'll only have one line. Speed graph also may be less helpful in some hard technical sections.

:nod:

And disable "Setup Info"

Grand job Victor!

[Juls]

I see what you mean...a graph that shows the black spots where you lose most of time compared to a WR.

You get exactly that when you display speeds in synchronized mode. And it is better than a time difference, because it shows directly what should be your minimum speed in corner to go as fast as WR.

[Fox 2]

Juls, I can't agree with you. You can't tell how much time exactly you are losing just by speed graph. And that may be important, if you are hotlaping for MHR for example. Also, time diff. does depend on racer's lines, not speed only.. And they may differ a lot. Thirdly, sometimes lines on speed graph are very close to each other, so you can't even tell who's actually faster. In this case it'll be just too complicated to look at it and immediately see your weak points. And finally, sometimes you don't need too know exact WR speeds, since it's far from perfect, but you still need to know, where you're losing even compared to that.

So, imo, it'll be just much more visually comfortable (if that makes sense :) ), easier and faster to use.

[Juls]

It seems I did not understand at all what a time diff graph is :)

Could you explain more what is a time diff graph? (what do you take for X and Y axis)

[AndroidXP]

X axis is the time line, Y axis is the time difference between the compared drivers. If both drivers are exactly equally fast in every place then the line will stay in the middle at 0. If it goes up (difference increases) then you see that driver A was slower than driver B, if it goes down (difference decreases) you see where he was faster.

I think there can also be a normalised variant of this graph, where only the places where someone lost or gained time are shown.

[wsinda]

I think there can also be a normalised variant of this graph, where only the places where someone lost or gained time are shown.That is the most useful variant. The line shows where one driver is gaining time on the other driver.

Suppose driver A focuses on braking late for a turn, and driver B uses "slow in, fast out". The time difference graph will go down at curve entry (A gains on B), and up (A loses on B) after the exit. By comparing the sizes of "up" part and the "down" part of the graph, you can see whose strategy was best.

[Nick A]

+1 for the time graph. This is the graph I use the most in LRA, very useful to quickly see where you are gaiuning/loosing time.

[Juls]

X axis is the time line, Y axis is the time difference between the compared drivers. If both drivers are exactly equally fast in every place then the line will stay in the middle at 0. If it goes up (difference increases) then you see that driver A was slower than driver B, if it goes down (difference decreases) you see where he was faster.

I think there can also be a normalised variant of this graph, where only the places where someone lost or gained time are shown.

I suppose X axis is the position on the track, not the time. So for every track point, you know what was the time difference between the two drivers. Looks nice and very useful!

It seems to me that this time difference graph is the integral of 1/v1-1/v2, that is to say (v2-v1)/(v1*v2).
Intuitively it looks right, it increases or decreases when speed difference is positive or negative, and slow areas of the track (like turns) makes the biggest time difference (v1*v2 small).

Reading this graph before and after a turn you know how much time you lose or gain during that turn.

[Victor]

yep, I'll add a time difference graph. I just have some other things to do this week, so i hope next week i can look into the new graph (and other improvements)

[wsinda]

Example of time difference graph.

Cosmetic remark: the window title of Vic's replay analyser will only appeal to fans of Nadal. :D

[haelje]

just a question: could it be ever possible to provide the possibility with some external prog / library / script so it would be possible to generate the RAF from SPR's without using the LFS.exe ? ( i have some strategy-planning tool in my mind and the best way to enter data to analyze would be to use SPR's and get all data from it (by extractin the RAF from it )) :shrug:

[wsinda]

just a question: could it be ever possible to provide the possibility with some external prog / library / script so it would be possible to generate the RAF from SPR's without using the LFS.exe ?You will always need lfs.exe to generate a RAF file. An SPR contains just the driver inputs. You then need to re-do the physics calculations to get the RAF data, and that can only be done with LFS itself.

It's thinkable that LFS will get scripting commands to generate a RAF file. (Or maybe the new patch already can - the RAF files for Victor's analyser are generated in an automatic process.) Another possibility is if LFS could generate the RAF data while you drive. (It would be optional, comparable with the option to auto-save replay files.) That can serve several purposes:
To generate many RAF files in one go, like you need for your planning tool.
To get a RAF file quickly (i.e. without needing to save & run the replay), thus shortening the drive - analyse - learn cycle.(i have some strategy-planning tool in my mind and the best way to enter data to analyze would be to use SPR's and get all data from it (by extractin the RAF from it ))If it is pitting strategy that you want to generate, then I have bad news for you: fuel, tyre wear, or damage are not included in the RAF file. (At the moment, at least. Scawen might be persuaded to add them.)

[haelje]

You will always need lfs.exe to generate a RAF file. An SPR contains just the driver inputs. You then need to re-do the physics calculations to get the RAF data, and that can only be done with LFS itself.

i asked because of the new kind of generating RAF's on LFSWorld. obvousily there runs somewhere a service or something like that, which is able to simulate the physics to generate the RAF WITHOUT RUNNING THE GAME! that's why i asked if it would be possible to provide such a code to use it in own projects.


If it is pitting strategy that you want to generate, then I have bad news for you: fuel, tyre wear, or damage are not included in the RAF file. (At the moment, at least. Scawen might be persuaded to add them.)
i think fuel and damage are in the SPR (not sure about tyre wear), so in combination with RAF you got a lot of informations.

[wsinda]

i asked because of the new kind of generating RAF's on LFSWorld. obvousily there runs somewhere a service or something like that, which is able to simulate the physics to generate the RAF WITHOUT RUNNING THE GAME!It DOES run the game. It runs the replay in LFS, which is installed on one of LFSW's own machines. The RAF is then saved, and made available to the analyser.i think fuel and damage are in the SPR (not sure about tyre wear), so in combination with RAF you got a lot of informations.The SPR contains the car setup and the driver inputs. When you run the replay, LFS re-calculates everything, including damage and fuel usage. (This is why the fast-forwarding SPRs in the new test patch works so slowly. The situation at time T is not stored in the SPR; the only way is to re-calculate everything, from the start of the replay up to time T.)

[AndroidXP]

I suppose X axis is the position on the track, not the time. Ah yes, that's true. Of course, otherwise the graphs would get out of sync quickly and they'd be useless :doh:
i asked because of the new kind of generating RAF's on LFSWorld. obvousily there runs somewhere a service or something like that, which is able to simulate the physics to generate the RAF WITHOUT RUNNING THE GAME! that's why i asked if it would be possible to provide such a code to use it in own projects.
I guess it's probably something like a special command line option for LFS.exe, to allow generating the RAFs with minimum overhead (just load track/car and run the physics, without graphics or user interface).

[haelje]

you are really sure, that for converting the lfs.exe is used ? i mean if there is the possibility to run the physics-calculation faster than it's done when rendering i s needed, why should it be done with a slow run (the new replay features work in the same way, there is only the physics calculated and that can be done faster)? at the end only victor can tell us, how it works technically and if this possibility could make it possible to separate the physics.calculation-step out of the lfs.exe.
(if something like this was written by him and i only didn't read it, then a BIG SORRY for my ideas :shrug: )

I guess it's probably something like a special command line option for LFS.exe, to allow generating the RAFs with minimum overhead (just load track/car and run the physics, without graphics or user interface).
if it is like this, then it is also usable by anybody ;)

[AndroidXP]

No, it would not make any sense to extract the physics part. It should be reasonably easy to make the LFS.exe (like I wrote above) only run on minimal mode with maximum physics acceleration to quickly generate the RAF file.

If it were an extra tool, that would mean Scawen would have to update the physics for that tool too every time LFS' physics are updated, which is unnecessary work that can be easily avoided by making the LFS.exe the tool itself.
if it is like this, then it is also usable by anybody ;)Who said that it wouldn't? That doesn't mean they'd have to tell us, though :p

[Victor]

yes, we use LFS to export RAF files. But scawen made a way to export them without starting LFS in full graphics mode (like a dedi-host), and we do not need any LFS scripting to export a RAF. Scawen will explain how to do that in a little bit - there's just one thing to look into for your usage.
So more details will follow shortly.

edit - and i think it only works for hotlaps. You cannot export a regular spr this way.

[haelje]

yes, we use LFS to export RAF files. But scawen made a way to export them without starting LFS in full graphics mode (like a dedi-host), and we do not need any LFS scripting to export a RAF. Scawen will explain how to do that in a little bit - there's just one thing to look into for your usage.
So more details will follow shortly.
GREAT and i had something like this in mind :thumb: thanks for clearing this up :tilt:

and i think it only works for hotlaps. You cannot export a regular spr this way.
is there a real technical difference between a SPR and a hotlap-replay ? i thought the only difference is that a hotlap is excactly 1 lap from the startline to the finish and a SPR can be any single-player action. so in such case the task would be to "extract" correct single laps to use it with the RAF-converting proccess, or ?

[AndroidXP]

Yes, that is most likely the reason. In a hotlap you automatically know which lap to extract, whereas a normal SPR would need an additional parameter to specify the lap# to export.

[El_TaxMaN]

Suggestion:

Victor, could you mark the splits in the graph or on the map?

Thanks.

[Dmt]

Hmm, tryed to refresh many times and re-open, still wont work :shrug:
But it worked yesterday.

[510N3D]

Victor, would it be possible to have two buttons inside a graph making it possible to use the mouse wheel either for zooming or scrolling? Or maybe like in the replay analyser where you can mark a specific area which then will be zoomed in while the mouse wheel remains for scrolling only?

Also, would auto scroll be possible so the timeline could be visible at all time?

Maybe the zoom of the top right view could be a bit bigger as well?

The information that comes along with each graph like speed, rpm and so on inside the grey bar is a bit too small and the contrast making it really hard to read. I tried several screen resolutions with my CRT monitor and my laptop. Im wondering if im the only one with this "problem".

In the overview above the g-meter there is the speed, gears and RPM. I think putting those together would be quite helpful for easier and quicker comparison. Maybe just like you've done it with the split times already?

Ok ok, im out of suggestions, for now! :nerd:

:D

Edit: As for the tool itself and all the improvements i adhere to my previous statement (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=794038#post794038).

[Kid222]

Will there be standalone version to download? Or is it LFSW only? :)

[Scawen]

Programmer discussion moved to new thread :
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=44372

[wsinda]

Cosmetic flaw: In the Setup info, the damper values are shown in different units for front and rear (Ns/m vs. Ns/mm). For suspension stiffness there's a difference too.

[gp4racer]

impresive thanks once and again

[Napalm Candy]

Please, needs an option to compare 2 different cars in the same track, like XFR-UFR, RB4-XRT or FXO, FXR-XRR or FZR...

[Gener_AL (UK)]

Broken raf file ?

Trying to compare this (http://www.lfsworld.net/rafa/?raf1=Gener_AL_%28UK%29_FE3_RB4_133640&raf2=%28FIN%29Eza_FE3_RB4_133550)

Using Opera Version -9.50
Build-10063
Platform-Win32
System-Windows NT 6.0

OS is VistaX64

[(FIN)Eza]

Broken raf file ?

Trying to compare this (http://www.lfsworld.net/rafa/?raf1=Gener_AL_%28UK%29_FE3_RB4_133640&raf2=%28FIN%29Eza_FE3_RB4_133550)

Using Opera Version -9.50
Build-10063
Platform-Win32
System-Windows NT 6.0

OS is VistaX64

That's not the only one, there is few others too

[Victor]

hmm odd. I re-exported the raf file and it seems ok now. Not sure what happened there.

[(FIN)Eza]

Happened again..

This time two new "unable to load raf"'s from my laps. FE4 RB4 wr and KY2 RB4 wr. Didn't do anything "special", just uploaded laps to LFSW and seems can't load raf's.

XP SP3 + Firefox 3.0.1

[Victor]

hm i think it was due to your 'double' uploads. That should be fixed now - the converter will check if the hotlap record has updated during the raf export (ie. if a new hotlap has been uploaded). If there was, it'll start over again.

[(FIN)Eza]

hm i think it was due to your 'double' uploads. That should be fixed now - the converter will check if the hotlap record has updated during the raf export (ie. if a new hotlap has been uploaded). If there was, it'll start over again.

Ok, cool, thx :)

[titanLS]

Slightly OT, but is it possible to select gallons instead of litres when displaying fuel burnt in Online Racer Stats? I can't find it in LFSW settings...

[Rustic-Imposter]

How can i upload my hotlaps to LFSWORD?

[Victor]

On this page on LFS World : http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=hotlaps&whichTab=trackcharts , you can upload your hotlaps. Make sure you are logged in at LFS World though.

[gp4racer]

scavier you are the best, i am really now finding more fun with lfs instead of iracing....thanks guys!

[yaper]

Victor,
How about changing graphs: "Distance" and "Track position" which are useless IMHO, into "Track difference" and "Time difference" graphs?

IIRC the time difference was available in F1PerfView and was a great graph to analyse where you are loosing/gaining your time.

You can even add one graph called "Track / time difference", and change behaviour depending on Sync option state. When paths are synced, graph should show time difference, otherwise track difference.

[J.B.]

I know I'm late to the party but I just had my first look at rafa and I'm quite impressed! Very clean and easy to use. In case you are still looking for feedback here are my suggestions how it could be made a lot more useful.


First, as yapper mentions above, a time difference graph is very useful to find out where time is being gained/lost. To save space I would put this in the same window as speed as that's the one that's going to be open all the time.

Also important would be IMO that when I zoom, all graphs are zoomed at the same time, so that the cursor line is still in sync with the displayed data. For example if I zoom in to turn 1 to analyze the braking I want to see steering and throttle all at the same scale and the same position.

And I think there needs to be a way to move the cursor position using the keyboard so that I can go through a lap step by step. For example one real life data analysis tool I've worked with uses the arrow keys to move the cursor and ctrl+arrows to move the currently visible range (when you are zoomed).

Not really important but nice would be if a live steering wheel could be added to the overview screen and whether it could be moved to the right hand pane as to not take away room for a real graph.

[{Horus}]

Hello there... I uploaded some hotlaps on lfs world but when I want to compare my lap with another it says "Unable to load .raf file" Is there something I should do about it?

[Scawen]

I recommend you should write to Victor using this link :

http://www.lfs.net/?page=contactus

I think he will need to know the replay filenames, of yours and the ones you wanted to compare with. Please give him as much information as possible.

[Victor]

no that's ok, it's fixed now.

[{Horus}]

Thank you very much!! Keep up the great job guys!! :):):thumb:

[BurnOut69]

Hi there, I've just started to use this tool, and I'm impressed.

I have a couple of suggestions, though:

- It would be very useful if, when pushing the sync button, the graphics retained the current level of zooming. Not a big deal but its slightly annoying to have to re-zoom them.

Also, this bit J.B pointed out. It makes things harder if graphics work at different levels of zoom since they are kind of out of sync.


Also important would be IMO that when I zoom, all graphs are zoomed at the same time, so that the cursor line is still in sync with the displayed data. For example if I zoom in to turn 1 to analyze the braking I want to see steering and throttle all at the same scale and the same position.


All in all, a great job and extremely useful. My slowness can be scientifically proved now in a really cool way :D