Standard of drivers slipping ...

[keiran]

Well the last few nights I've got back into playing LFS more frequently but I have found that there a lot of drivers about now who seem to have their own 'rules.' I'm not meaning people who are still learning and are just slower but the ones who just seem to be like the wreckers in the demo days.

For example today in one race I got knocked off by a driver, but I just blew the horn in the hope he might have realised he did something wrong. Didn't get a sorry but that didn't bother me. Then when I managed to get him back in sight he did it to someone else. He continued to do it in a lot of the races to the stage where he actually wrecked me from the lead into T1 with no brakes at all. I voted to ban but for some reason some people don't seem to realise what the feature is for :shrug:. In the end I threatened the guy that I would have the replay passed around and he then said, "Sorry, my pedals are broken." I knew they weren't cause he was still driving after he wrecked me :pillepall Then guess who I see 5 mins later in a different server the same guy with was up to his games running into things on purpose, weaving down the stright and running into people. This time he had an accomplice who would wreck each other and generally cause chaous.

My main reason in this post as we see many times around here is that this really doesn't look good for newcomers to Live for Speed. The system for banning the devs have given us is perfect for making liscensed servers wrecker free but the users need to use it. I love Live for Speed and it's the only game I play but the last few days I've ended up quiting because of these people.

Whats everyone else thoughts on the driving in general ?? Am I just picking the wrong server :schwitz:

I have a couple of replays if anyone is wishing to see them just drop me a PM

Keiran

[Vendetta]

Well, theirs not much you can do about it. Some people are jerks, and always will be. Just be grateful their not on a real track ;)

[keiran]

One of the reasons I've posted is just the lack of people who will ban people for being wreckers. I've seen people get banned for far less than that. Like in a racing accident where both partys were to blame I've seen one of them ending up baned but in a 100% certain situation on whats happened people should really ban. If people don't the system might as well not be there.

Keiran

[bbuck]

I hate to see people get upset by this sort of thing.You just need to stick at it and meet the nice people.

[X-Ter]

The sort of behavour described above is something I never would allow for. Neither a newbie, nor a veteran. It's plain wrong.
When ever I have my host machine running I have it save the replays automatically, and anyone that experience this sort of stuff on my server just have to email me about the time it occured and I'll have a look at the replay. If it's beyond all doubt that the person accused of "ill behaviour" is in fact doing it on purpose or by neglecting other drivers and general racing rules, that driver is banned.
I sort of hope that my server will become a santuary for good clean racers that way. Both newbies and oldies :)

[mrodgers]

FTR: I think I can just about count the number of intentional wreckers I've seen in S2 on the fingers of one hand; that's a way better ratio than I've seen in pretty much any other multiplayer.
Same here, in licensed servers. And I used that same finger to show the 1 true intentional wrecker what I thought of him. I've seen bad drivers, people spinning out wrecking the leaders under a blue flag situation, people ignoring blue flag and cutting off passing attempts by the leaders, poor attitudes, but when you look at the actual intentional wrecking, ie, the guy who turns around and drives the wrong way on purpose, keeps it floored straight through you in a turn, etc. I've only really seen 1. I'm with you Kev, and I think we've both said this in other threads as well, about not blind voting. If I know you and you are respectable and vote, I will trust your judgement and vote, but I don't blindly vote. "Wreckers" are not common at all in S2, just the poor drivers, inconciderate drivers, and bad drivers. They don't need banned, they need explanation, especially with the new guys. There needs to be a little more toleration for the new guys so that they can learn and we are the ones that should be teaching, not banning them so they thing "WTF did I do?" when they may really not know or understand what they did. At least this applies in the US evenings. There aren't alot of racers here, so there isn't a problem. I don't know about the UK/Europe crowd. I know when I'm at work and pull up LFSWorld, I'm amazed at how many are racing when I see maybe 8 servers with racers in the evenings, usually only 1 or 2 with enough cars to have a race.

[Racer Y]

.....

Seriously though, the standard of driving has detereorated recently. We seem to be having an influx of new faces lately, the majority of people I see and meet these days have just bought S2 or had it under a month. Scawen and co must be doing alright for themselves! :thumb:


Yeah, It's the After X'mas Crowd. DUring the Early Morning and mid day, I
get to get online sometimes, and there's a bit of an increase and yeah, I've
seen intentional wreckers more than a few times. I usually can't vote the
wrecker out cause my K/B sits on top of the monitor when I set the
wheel up :shrug:

But I imagine those types will fade out soon enough. Trouble is when they
do give it up, they'll probably bad mouth the game to other people, using Half memorized critisizms from a review and a load of B.S. they make up
on their own.
And of course these ppl will listen to them... but then again, do we really want their friends or members of the same defective gene pool playing anyways?

LOL Maybe the developers, when given ample evidence that any given
person is a wrecker, could turn over that person's account information
over to like Scotland Yard or interpol. I bet most intentional wreckers have other "character flaws" like starting fires or torturing helpless animals or something.
How people behave in Online games is sometimes brought about by the percieved anonimity and isolation from whoever they're messing with.
If they continue to behave like this, they might lose their inhibitions that
keep them from acting out in the real world.
And as far fetched as it may sound, the kid that joins servers only to stop
in the middle of the track today, may grow to be a person that strangles old people tomorrow.

[cgrassham]

Then guess who I see 5 mins later in a different server the same guy with was up to his games running into things on purpose, weaving down the stright and running into people. This time he had an accomplice who would wreck each other and generally cause chaous.


That is the most irritating thing to me, its ok when theres one, but then his little friend gets involved. I can just imagine them on MSN or something giggling away like the little children they are.

[cgrassham]

The problem is that most will not vote unless they see with there own eye's and you can shout wrecker till your blue in the face ppl still dont vote :( I opoligize if my swearing offended anyone tonight on the olfsl practice server but we all have our breaking point and mine has broke good and proper,after nearly 60,000 miles in lfs i find it very sad that i don't enjoy s2 and i very much doubt i'll bother with public servers its just not worth the grief.

What servers are you using? There are plenty of good ones out there. Join up to a club or something where the users are all clean.

[PLAYLIFE]

What servers are you using? There are plenty of good ones out there. Join up to a club or something where the users are all clean.

How can I join a club?

[Jakg]

How can I join a club?x2

[Funnybear]

East kid, thats deep phsycology your getting into there. I wouldn't class intentional wreckers as potential Granny Bashers, ther're just slightly deranged and selfish. To intentionally wreck is a very selfish act when you think about it, it shows a complete disregard for convention and 'game' rules. We all know the kinda kid who does it, he was the loner in the school playground, often a bit violent. Might even be a bit of a bully, but very insecure. Would take all the best toys and never share them. Often breaking them so nobody else could play with them too. Maybe had arseholes for parents, maybe just parents who's skills at parenting left a lot to be desired. Maybe a bit fat, couldn't compete in sports very well, never got picked for teams, so feels like he's getting his own back at all those barstards who never chose him for the Football team, never let him join in their games, never let him come to their houses. He claims victim status, thinks the world owes him one.

You see the kinda guy at work, you see him giggling at the pain of others. He finds Tramp Fight club funny, he torments the secretarys, sucks up to the boss. Plays hurtful jokes in the name of 'It's only a joke lighten up'. The kinda guy that never gets invited out to the office nights out, but manages to find out when and where and turns up anyway. Then spends the rest of the night trying to turn everyone against each other and ruining it for all and sundry.

You see him at the sports club, the hyper competative but rarly winning Arsehole. Will fight a point if he is loosing but will gladly turn a blind eye if his squash ball didn't quite make the line and you didn't notice. Doesn't think exsessive body barging is a bad thing whilst playing a non contact sport. He will break down every last point if he has won, going into extreme detail about how he 'WHIPPED YOUR MOTHER ****ING LILLY WHITE ARSE' (Quote) from here into next week, but if you win he will find every excuse to cut you down, to demand a rematch, to say you cheated, to say he should have won that but he let you win it out of sympathy.

You see him down the pub, the one with all the bullshit, the gob the mouth. But when challenged never has the backup and just gets stroppy when put into a corner. The guy that you are always trying to get away from but who will always come and talk to you. Or rather talk at you. He isn't interested in your stories or your anecdotes. He just wants you to listen. about how he kicked his bosses Arse at Squash. How he used to be really good at school and how he was friends with everyone. How he knew Bruce Springsteen and supplies most of the country with crack cocaine. How he can down 12 pints and not feel a thing but is actually paraletic after three. The kinda guy that knows your into computer games and tells you that he's just started playing this online racing simulator called LFS, but whats really good about it right, is that you can really **** everyone up. Then they get really ****ed of with you and try and vote you off, but it never works so I just really **** 'em, up even more. ****ing take out the leader, 'it him full on. Never laughed so much in my life . . .

You all know the kinda guy. So do yourselfs all a favour. Next time you see that guy. Hit him. He won't hit back, even if you are smaller than he is. Just look strong and menacing. Hit him hard (infact it doesn't need to be hard, these guys go running to their mummy at the first hint of real trouble) stare at him and tell him that in no uncertain terms that if he ever sets eyes on a computer screen bearing the logo LFS, he's in for a supreme kicking. Just tell him NO!. Don't go there. Or else he's in for a proper shoeing.

In fact whilst your there, tell him not to go to the pub anymore, because he's really pissing off the barmaids. They're fed up of clearing up his puke from the bogs.

Now thats psycology (Did I spell it right this time?)

And whilst I'm on my diatribe. Back to the matter in hand, i.e. Wreckers and shit like that. I have been booted of servers before for fairly inocuous reasons. But it is difficult when you join a new server or you are trying oiut a new car and trying to get a set right. It doesn't take much sometimes for an even experianced racer to cock up and ruin a race. Shit does happen. I am beginning to recognise names in the comminity and I know who I can trust to race against and who I can't. My racing style refelcts that, sometimes racing closer than normal, sometimes giving people a lot more space. I don't jump on the kick vote if I havn't seen the incident, but if I know the person who initiated the vote, I trust their judgement and vote too. If I initiate the vote I try and explain why I have doen it. I think, with the kick vote you should be placed in Limbo, A place where you can't race but you can still explain yourself or beg forgiveness. This would still be open to abuse as you will get spammers who fill the chat with drivvel, but then a second vote will boot them. I suppose that couold all get quite complicated with reinstate votes and revotes and on and on.

Anyway, I think my baby has just shit her nappy. Happy days.

*Edit* Nappy update. She had. It was a goodone too.

[ajp71]

Only been on LFS a few times since Christmas, been on a couple of great servers in the GTR/XFR, getting good advice which helps the learning process seeing as I have very little experience in either of them. Having said that the rest of the servers have been full of wreckers.

As regards to the horn, it really, really pisses some people off, if people hold you up because you start using the horn and loads of 'BLUE FLAG BLUE FLAG JUMP OVER THE ARMCO I'M WITHIN HALF A MILE OF YOUR CAR' thats fair enough.

I will never let someone through in the middle of the BL chicane or the AS historic chicane, even if I've just mid-raced joined and they've caught me at a bad moment when I'm still bedding the car in, they're just going to have to wait, no point in sending SPAM, which affects everyone on the server, or bashing your horn, and if someone bashes me out the way then I will get very pissed off, more so seeing as it wasn't for position and they'd have been let through when I felt it was safe.

Enough ranting for now but remember:

Under a blue flag the faster car makes a pass, the lapped car doesn't defend, but equally doesn't have to jump off the track.

The other thing that really annoys me is yellow flags, under a yellow flag you do not pass. I've seen plenty of fast racers crash out under yellows, and there's nothing more annoying than when you and the car ahead of you slow down for a yellow when there are clearly cars all over the place ahead of you and some twat powers past, overtaking three cars before piling into a stationary car, that kind of wreckless driving is on the same level as deleberate wrecking IMO.

[ajp71]

How can I join a club?

http://cleanracersclub.org/crcweb/

[Funnybear]

Yellow fags just don't have the same meaning in LFS as in RL. Half the time you get Yellows and the guy has either recovered or pitted anyway which makes the Yellow redundant. So you either keep thepower on, with the expectation that either the Yellowee is either off track, pitted or still going, or you slow down for nothing and loose track position to those who don't give a monkeys. If you had recovery time, or a pace car, broken bits of car on the track, a striken car that can't go anyway untill the AA man cometh, then maybe the Yellow would be far more effective. But none of that happens so a yellow flag will continue to mean nothing more than 'Warning, learner driver and/or cock ahead'.

[SparkyDave]

I think I may have been in the same server as you Keiran . and I remember the comment about broken pedals lol , I had the worst nights racing ever last night many races got knocked off lap 1 (as nat rev XFR btw) and people are not looking around them enough when colse racing , maybe its just a post xmas break thing as people settle into the new year . I dont jump on the vote/ban bandwagon unless someone posts a good reason or I see it myself same with restarts , I am goiong to hit the servers again tonight looking for better races Im sure theres more greatraces than bad ones lets hope so .

SD.

[mrbogeyman]

TBH, unless you are racing with people you know, i think it is presumptious to think that other racers will race clean.

by that i dont mean blatant wrecking, but their inability to be aware of who is around them and to be able to make clean and appropriate passes.

alot of racers can be fast, but i think the mark of a real racer is to be clean and fast! i try to be both :D

its a shame that you get proper nobs that purposely drive dangerously on S2 servers, but i can only say keep going and lookout for the safer/fairer servers. there are quite a few.

also, if you stick to racing with a crowd that know you then they are more likely to back up your ban claims.

[Hyperactive]

Yellow flags are a problem because there is no penalty if passing under yellow. And most people don't care about them. And 9/10 times there isn't any danger, LFS seems to throw the yellow flag sometimes when not needed and sometimes not when it should. Of course people should always slow down and not pass under yellow, no matter if there is or is not visible danger.

But it just is that yellow flag is usually shown when there are many cars on track sideways, on roof etc.. And you just pick the best and safest line and might accidentally (;)) pass some one there...

But one thing just drives me crazy. In the start when some one accelerates from the start and just bofere T1 notices that he is going too fast to avoid collision he rams some one and then shouts "sorry, my bad, very sorry" and accelerates towards the next corner with non-damaged car while the other one looses control of his car and hits the walls and wrecks his car totally. Or both get wrecked.

And instead of ramming the other guy he could have avoided the collision simply by driving off the track without touching anybody. He may have avoided the collision but decided to use some one else as a bumper.

The gentleman rule: Avoid collision, never ram anyone, always try to avoid contact, even if you need to pull off track. And sometimes I even check if someone is coming too fast from behind and try to steer away from his path. Yes, it may cost me some positions but at least my car is undamaged and I can continue race. Check my replay here LINK (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=59155#post59155). Check the last lap from me. Last corner.

Using bad language will never make me vote to kick someone. At least an explanation of the accident is needed. Comments like: "idiot n00b, use your brakes fu*** sakes!!!11", or "wtf was that. Go f*** yourself". The press "1" to kick <player>. No way. If the player keeps doing nasty stuff then get rid of him but always first tell him what he did and why he shouldn't do it. Can't be that hard. Patience. Of course here are people who should be "removed" but at least I don't see them everyday...

EDIT: Forgot one thing. Give room for people coming back on track. Just drive the other side of the road. He may not have checked his mirrors or something else. But chances are smaller to hit him if you take some precautions.

[nikimere]

i think the problem is the volume of people switching from Demo to S2 atm. I think once they are more experienced it will level off a bit. But i dont think it will ever be the way it used to be when the community was smaller.

It's was kinda like a small rural village with no crime at all. Then the village builds up and turns into a town... then the crime starts.

[ajp71]

Please bare in mind slowing for a yellow does not mean braking on the middle of a straight when there is no visible danger, as that just causes a danger. It means stop racing and go into corners not totally commited, almost race speed but slow enough to give you a chance to change your line if you have to.

The majority of yellow flags IRL do not occur because there is a car parked on the racing line, they are there to reduce the risk of more cars piling into cars and marshalls off the circuit, they should still be obeyed in LFS.

If you hit a car that has spun in the middle of the track because you couldn't avoid it due to being side by side with another car or you were too commited in a corner and then start bitching about the fact that they'd spun (not the same as a car that is recovering) then you deserve a kick at the very least.

[ajp71]

@ sidi - it's more the new cars don't offer as close racing IRL, they simply can't, however well they are being driven as at the speeds they run at you simply can't be wheel to wheel without taking each other out. IMO the day LFS simulates tangling open wheel cars the better, it won't cause chaos like some would fear just an end to this tapping and rubbing bollocks that happens on FOX servers atm. If touching ends your race like IRL there will be no need to worry about lag or idiots bumpdrafting you in an open wheeled car.

Same goes for kerbing, IRL the BL Green chicane would destroy any single seater that tryed to take it flat.

[Smax]

I'll offer the perspective of one of those who is new to the game.

I'll start with the positives, I've had lots of "sorry mate" when somebody has knocked me off,lots of "thank you" when I've moved over for a blue flag, and nobody's ever sworn at me, or tried to ban/disconnect me just because I'm 5 seconds+ down on the leaders, so generally speaking my online experience has been very enjoyable and less "1337-ist" than some of the other games I've played.

This game suffers somewhat from not having had a commercial release,there aren't many commercially run servers, almost all the public servers out there belong to team/clan and in the context of other games that would mean that the word "public" would have to be taken with a pinch of salt, since they'd usually be full of clanners and server regulars...not the best place to cut your teeth in the online mode of the game you're playing. So it's nice to be able to find so many places to play where people aren't going to have a "wtf are you doing here" type attitude

Unfortunately there has to be some negative to go with that. I've also had quick drivers tagging the rear of my car and spinning me out because they've failed to account for the fact that I'm slower in the corners, I've had many many people come across from the side, and take my nose off because they're not using their side view buttons, and plenty of times I've seen "blue flag clear the line!!!" and realised that me being last/close to it, I need to be aware of what's going on. More often than not it's been half a lap before I've seen anything coming up behind me, by which time I've made a couple of mistakes and am more likely to make more, since I'm paying more attention to the mirror and the map than I am to the road.

Bottom line is renting servers costs money, and I respect anyone who pays for one and then makes it public without asking for contributions, and I'll always obey the house rules and try not to upset anyone. I appreciate it's frustrating for someone who can consistently be within a second of the WR time to be on a server full of people who are 10 seconds slower than that, but if I may offer an opinion, it would be that you go where the game is, and therefore need to find the level in the game you're playing, and as long as those who don't have a decent level of skill are prepared to account for those who do, then the same respect really ought to go the other way. I'm reminded of an old FarCry clanmate of mine who used to have "respect the n00b for one day he will pwn you" as his forum sig, silly statement I know, but I guess it means everyone has to start somewhere, and if those new to the game get put off playing it then sooner or later it will run out of steam and its community will disintegrate just like so many other gaming communities before it.

[mrodgers]

Only been on LFS a few times since Christmas, been on a couple of great servers in the GTR/XFR, getting good advice which helps the learning process seeing as I have very little experience in either of them. Having said that the rest of the servers have been full of wreckers.

As regards to the horn, it really, really pisses some people off, if people hold you up because you start using the horn and loads of 'BLUE FLAG BLUE FLAG JUMP OVER THE ARMCO I'M WITHIN HALF A MILE OF YOUR CAR' thats fair enough.

I will never let someone through in the middle of the BL chicane or the AS historic chicane, even if I've just mid-raced joined and they've caught me at a bad moment when I'm still bedding the car in, they're just going to have to wait, no point in sending SPAM, which affects everyone on the server, or bashing your horn, and if someone bashes me out the way then I will get very pissed off, more so seeing as it wasn't for position and they'd have been let through when I felt it was safe.

Enough ranting for now but remember:

Under a blue flag the faster car makes a pass, the lapped car doesn't defend, but equally doesn't have to jump off the track.

The other thing that really annoys me is yellow flags, under a yellow flag you do not pass. I've seen plenty of fast racers crash out under yellows, and there's nothing more annoying than when you and the car ahead of you slow down for a yellow when there are clearly cars all over the place ahead of you and some twat powers past, overtaking three cars before piling into a stationary car, that kind of wreckless driving is on the same level as deleberate wrecking IMO.
The only point I have to argue to you about is where you say "even if I've just mid-raced joined ". If you just joined or pit out of the race, then you should do what is needed to get out of the way of those still racing and not interupt them at all. Other than that, your opinion relfects mine in the lead car must pass the blue flag car and not the blue flag quit racing because someone faster is coming like many expect.

[ajp71]

The only point I have to argue to you about is where you say "even if I've just mid-raced joined ". If you just joined or pit out of the race, then you should do what is needed to get out of the way of those still racing and not interupt them at all.

The BL chicane wasn't a good place to use as an example because you can look and stop easilly at the BL pit exit and shouldn't ever have a car behind you when you leave the pits.

What I was meaning was for example at Aston Historic up the fast uphill left -right chicane when your on your first lap out of the pits, you can't take it full speed on cold tires (if you can take it on cold tires as fast as you can normally your not driving the car hard enough) if I am going through there with a fast approaching car in my mirrors I will not drive into the wall so he doesn't hit me, in this example the car behind would have seen the slow car before he commited himself to the corner and there is no way of making a safe pass so he has to back off no two ways about it.

My point is that some mid-join drivers are wrongly acused of dangerous driving just bacause some noob takes them out because he can't be bothered to slow down.

[RacingSimFan]

As ajp71 suggested, join the CRC. The server is public at the moment but the racing there is kept to a very high standard and CRC members are eligible to enter special events and leagues run by the CRC.

Pop on over to cleanracersclub.org and apply.

[keiran]

I have to put the point across that the intention of this thread wasn't on new comers. Meeting people like the two I did last night really puts me off continuing racing that night just because the fact they can get off with it amazes me. The fact these two were working together in weaving, ramming etc shows it wasn't accidental. I just hope more people after reading this will be more open to voting to ban when they see an event like this. As it really amazes me that someone can go flat out into the back of someone at T1 and not even touch the brakes yet not vote to ban.

I know I could go race with people I know and I often do stick with my crowd but the main reason I like LFS is that pick up races are so easy. We can say there are a lot of new drivers about and fair enough we were all new. All of us here have had to learn about LFS at some point. The people I'm talking about are the narrow minded ones who will do anything to win and to have some fun they will run into each other causing chaos to everyone else.

I hope now that 472 people have read this thread that even new comers might realise they should be more aware of what's going on around them and ban people who they see acting out of order.

Hopefully tonight's racing might be more successful :razz:
Keiran

[ajp71]

I agree but never use the ban unless you either know the person voting it and have been giviven a logical rational explination or have seen the incident. Never ever vote ban on someone the first time they hit you, a lag can feel like being hit very hard when actually it's just an innocent tap. The other classic example is T2 on the long Aston configs, get pushed on the grass on the inside and you simply aren't going to slow down enough on the grass, I've seen people get banned for this when they weren't to blame and could do nothing to avoid it.

[mrodgers]

The BL chicane wasn't a good place to use as an example because you can look and stop easilly at the BL pit exit and shouldn't ever have a car behind you when you leave the pits.

What I was meaning was for example at Aston Historic up the fast uphill left -right chicane when your on your first lap out of the pits, you can't take it full speed on cold tires (if you can take it on cold tires as fast as you can normally your not driving the car hard enough) if I am going through there with a fast approaching car in my mirrors I will not drive into the wall so he doesn't hit me, in this example the car behind would have seen the slow car before he commited himself to the corner and there is no way of making a safe pass so he has to back off no two ways about it.

My point is that some mid-join drivers are wrongly acused of dangerous driving just bacause some noob takes them out because he can't be bothered to slow down.
I didn't really notice you were talking about like just when you're in the chicane. Of course that is a hairy place to let someone by even if you throw yourself off the track as you could spin back on the track and into them. But if you were say, approaching the chicane and knew they were coming, then you should just wait and let them by. This is only under a mid race join or a pit out and back in situation that I am talking about, when you are NOT involved directly in the race. Under a normal in race blue flag situation, then this doesn't apply. You should hold your line and allow the faster driver to pass you, not pull off so the faster can continue on. I say this alot here in the forums, and many may not agree with me, but so be it. Blue flags, faster drivers, slower drivers, they are all a part of racing. Just because the leader's are faster than me and maybe I'm sitting in 6, 7, 8th place, that doesn't mean I'm not still racing when the leaders come up behind. I'm still trying to catch the guy up ahead of me, winning isn't everything to me. But if I'm in a new to me car/track combo and a gaggle of leaders are coming up behind me and I'm way off pace, then I will try to pull over and let them all pass by.

[ajp71]

Yep normally when I mid-race join I will go off line where ever possible, but there are some places where it is just not safe to run side by side when racing, let alone when not even passing for position.

[Gunn]

LFS will only get more popular and the ratio of new racers will increase with that popularity. The number of racers who are recent but no longer green will also increase, as will the number of experienced racers. With everything on the increase we can expect more inexperienced behaviour, mishaps, troublemakers etc, but also more structured races and mentors for rookies.

I have always thought that the answer to online chaos lies in the realm of organised racing (as opposed to a public free-for-all). The public server will never be able to offer you the best racing environment unless it is controlled and organised. Very few public servers are controlled or organised, fewer still are both controlled and organised.

There seems to be so many racers qround who yearn for a clean race with clear guidelines and no disruption or interruption. So to me there is no reason why all of these individuals can't get together regularly and race as they want to in a controlled server where every racer is there with a positive and fair attitude. There seems to be so many of you, which is great! So how do we get you all together regularly in one place?

League racing offers some respite from online chaos and I urge you all to get involved at league level for your own enjoyment and satisfaction. But leagues are usually held at set times and not everyone will find this convenient on a daily basis. An alternative approach would be to have private servers that are regularly active. The best racing I have experienced has not been on a public server and I wouldn't expect a clean race on a public server ever, there are simply too many avenues for disruption (intentional or otherwise). I also do not hold the devs responsible for online activities and I do not see it as their role to police or control people's actions. LFS gives us the options of public or private servers and both have their pros and cons.

In the end it is up to individuals to make clean and fair racing a reality for themselves and their mates. You can't change the world in one day, but you can change your small part of it every day. Get your mates and peers together regularly on a public server (there are plenty of empty servers available for your group to populate) or start a private server where all members know the rules and racing format and can race unimpeded, unwrecked, unspammed, with no voting or banning required ever. If all of this sounds too hard to accomplish then think about the resources available to you already. You can use this forum to announce your intentions and call for racers to join you, you can use the built-in chat room of LFS to meet and choose a server, and you have here access to a large part of the community, many of whom want exactly what you want.

It is no perfect world of course, but there is plently of great racing action to be had in LFS, don't let yourself be dictated to by the public server culture which exists in all online gaming. Join a club or league, or make one yourself. Band together to promote your popular cause and get out there and enjoy this great sim. Find people in similar time zones who feel the same way and meet your new racing buddies regularly. Try to choose a day and time to always meet and that way poeple can make plans to join you rather than wandering around from server to server hoping to find a nice group to race with. I sometimes cringe at the thought that there may be hundreds of racers online at any one time all of them wanting the same thing but none getting it. Together you can move mountains.

[Flycantbird]

Without an admin on line, it's hard to overcome some of the problems described. If you find a group of people who are good and are usually on around the same time, they tend to end up looking for each other ( in my experience), and it is easier if you have the numbers on your side.

You shouldn't have a problem on a team server where a team member is present ( I Hope).

We've recently gotten our server going again (www.core-racing (http://www.core-racing)) and speaking for myself, I don't put up with a lot of crap from anyone.

I understand the argument that new players need time to improve, learn the ropes, etc, and I'll go out of my to help or explain what they've done wrong before just banning.

However, I think that anyone, whether it be their first day in LFS or their
third year, who's sole intent is to ruin other people's experience isn't worth the time to bother with. You can't force people to grow up, and there have been a few that just won't be back on our server before the 4th updates to S3 have been issued.

So hopefully, you can find some servers when the admins are on.
Another option is to use the 'start game' button, if you have enough bandwidth. With cable, I can usually run 6-10 cars without any serious lag.

There really are quite a lot of great drivers who aren't like the ones in the post. Keep trying, it's worth it.

Bird
CoRe Racing

[mrodgers]

Nice post Gunn and I agree that league/team private servers offer the best racing. Problem with us over here in NA is right now there are 16 servers in the list (empty excluded). 1 is a stunt server, 3 say they have someone in them but don't, 1 is drift, and 2 are above 300 ms ping for my dialup. Of the 9 servers left, 1 is running SO Classic with 9 racers which I only like in MRT (running FOX right now), 4 racers are at AS Nat Rev in the XFR/UFR which I hate FWD cars, 5 racers are split between 2 servers running the FO8 which I don't like, 14 racers are split between 2 servers at BL Car Park so they are doing demo derby, autocross, or something other than racing on a track, and 1 server has 3 connection running FE Club with the UF1 (yuk). So that leaves me with joining either AS Nat with FOX racing 1 other racer or Blackwood in the small and big GTR cars with 1 racer connected. So you can see the dilema for us over here in the States/North America. Of course it is no longer evening and it is the weekend, but it is very similar during the week in the evenings. We just don't have any variety to choose from. If you happen to not like the 1 or 2 servers that have enough connections for a race, then you're stuck. I've actually reinstalled NR2003 last night and loaded it up this evening for some offline racing with modified AI because the LFS racing is dwindling down fast over here in the western hemisphere. Probably because of NR2003 and Nascar being so big over here, not many are bothering with joining LFS because it's roadcourse racing, not oval (don't say LFS has an oval, NR2003 does it 300000 times better than LFS and you have 40 ovals to choose from).

Don't really know what the point of my post here is, but........

At least we don't and never really had in the past a big problem with wreckers since they get banned from the 1 or 2 servers with races going on and they are done for the night.

Out of curiosity, I loaded up the demo server list. For my dialup, there are 12 servers (out of 16) under 300 ms ping, 2 drift and 1 drag servers, 3 servers with only 1 or 2 connections and the other 6 servers have 7 or more racers. That gives me 300% more servers to choose from to race in by going back to the demo list. And the GTi on Blackwood is the only FWD car I care to drive. Actually it's kind of fun to jump onto a demo server full of new Turbo guys and show them all up in the little GTi. Quite funny.

*Edit: Flycantbird, the Core server is always a good place to go. I've been on the Core server since the S2 demo came out, I race with Core members in the NAL league (though I'm usually not in the same server per qualifying as them, LOL), and probably 40% of the people I see online are Core members. If I could figure out why I stink so bad, I'd solicit them to join the team as I've raced with them my entire LFS life so far. But I stink too bad (lap times I mean, it's not a hygiene problem, hehehe) that I've just decided to stay on my own in a 1 man team. Don't know what it is, since I understand the racing line, know how to drive, know how the cars react, know all about weight transfer, have fantastic setups (good to be friends with Core guys, RMachuca, and the like for that :-) ), been sim racing with a wheel for 10 years now and I'm still stuck at mid 1:46 at AS Nat FZR with I think breaking 1000 laps the other day. Sheesh, I just realized people like W.Gooden and Modoff from the [400] team were 6 years old when I first started racing on the PC with ICR2 and Nascar 2, LOL.

[garph]

I have to put the point across that the intention of this thread wasn't on new comers. Meeting people like the two I did last night really puts me off continuing racing that night just because the fact they can get off with it amazes me. The fact these two were working together in weaving, ramming etc shows it wasn't accidental. I just hope more people after reading this will be more open to voting to ban when they see an event like this. As it really amazes me that someone can go flat out into the back of someone at T1 and not even touch the brakes yet not vote to ban.

I know I could go race with people I know and I often do stick with my crowd but the main reason I like LFS is that pick up races are so easy. We can say there are a lot of new drivers about and fair enough we were all new. All of us here have had to learn about LFS at some point. The people I'm talking about are the narrow minded ones who will do anything to win and to have some fun they will run into each other causing chaos to everyone else.

I hope now that 472 people have read this thread that even new comers might realise they should be more aware of what's going on around them and ban people who they see acting out of order.

Hopefully tonight's racing might be more successful :razz:
Keiran

When you say 2 of them ramming each other and wrecking I think I've seen them.

Yesterday was pretty bad when I was admining CRC#1. I don't want to ban people, I prefer to warn them, then kick them and if they come back give them another chance.

3 bans happened yesterday. 1 guy just kept constantly swearing and even after countless warnings, being kicked 3 times he still didn't stop swearing so I had to ban him for 12 hours, he left me no choice at all, it was like he wanted to be banned?

The other 2 were together, I kicked 1 of them twice for wrecking he came back and sat in spectate. The other one was a good racer but was kicked once for wrecking but played nice when he returned. And they were proper demo wrecking as well, not braking for T1 and spinning people on the straight.

From what people have told me as soon as I left they started wrecking again and so their username will be banned.

I don't know what happened yesterday, banning people seems to come in waves. No bans for months then loads of bans at the same time. And why would people wreck on purpose when they know an admin is there? Are they n00bs from the demo and don't know that bans work or what?

:shrug:

[Racer Y]

I don't know what happened yesterday, banning people seems to come in waves. No bans for months then loads of bans at the same time. And why would people wreck on purpose when they know an admin is there? Are they n00bs from the demo and don't know that bans work or what?

:shrug:

I think you got something there..... how they happen in waves
Man there's so much psychology in this, it's scary.

I mean of course when the alpha was 1st released the wrecking increased, it seems that around X-mas, well shortly after the wrecking started again.
THose periods can be explained by the simple fact of a surge in new people. But are there other factors to this? Like will the next
"Wrecker period" be in March (Income tax return time in the USA, lol
Spring Fever too) Actually Stress levels and such seem to increase
with the start of spring. I wonder if the heat of Summer would be an influencing factor. Most of your Violent, sporadic crime like Homicides seems to happen in the summer.

[Rumiko]

at least LFS doesn't have online protests (http://www.cesspit.net/drupal/node/491)... like people blocking Blackwood straight because of physic bugs and unbalanced cars :scratchch

[jjones]

Hi i had the same thing the other day on as nationall, had a good start going down the strait and i was behind some one else so i was being fair not to hit him but the block behind had no consideration and nocked me of the track, it really gets to me, im fair and i would never nock some one of a track. So these people are just narrow minded and have no consideration.:(

[Fordman]

Another option, that alot of us use if MSN. Meet on MSN, like most T7R drivers do, and then choose a server ( usually a T7R Public One ) Although alot of people hate MSN for various reason, but it is one of the best LFS tools I use to meet, and greet and race friends.

Use your LFSForum User Info to give people your MSN, then as a collective we can watch out for each other, thus way finding clean servers. When I am not on MSN, I usually ( when I remember ) put Online Racing in my name so even though I am offline, you can see if I am online.

Just another idea :shrug:

[tristancliffe]

Another option, that alot of us use if MSN. Meet on MSN, like most T7R drivers do, and then choose a server ( usually a T7R Public One ) Although alot of people hate MSN for various reason, but it is one of the best LFS tools I use to meet, and greet and race friends.

Use your LFSForum User Info to give people your MSN, then as a collective we can watch out for each other, thus way finding clean servers. When I am not on MSN, I usually ( when I remember ) put Online Racing in my name so even though I am offline, you can see if I am online.

Just another idea :shrug:

On the same vein, add as many people to your LFSW Buddy List as you can, either people you know through the community (knowing people is a big help in racing as it adds an element of understanding when side by side), through having a good race with them, or whatever. Then check LFSW before you race, and you'll see who is where. If you see a server with 4 or 5 people you know then you can join them.

Who cares if it's not a car/track combo you know or like, you'll learn and you have a reasonable guarantee that the server is clean.

[adulterated]

http://www.pcgameworld.com/reviews/gamereview.php/id/401/

I had no trouble joining different groups for several races. Unfortunately, things at this point are a bit unorganized and rules of etiquette non-existent. For instance, the host in one race I joined crashed and flipped twice on the first turn. Now that he was way behind, he restarted the race. On the restart he crashed quickly again and again restarted. That’s unacceptable. Etiquette dictates that you let the race run out whether you, the host, are competitive or not. Would a host restart if someone else crashed? I think not.

This is what gives multiplayer a bad name and is why this particular mode, in my opinion, is vastly overrated. Most people have to rely on unfamiliar servers to enjoy online multiplayer, while many game reviewers have office LANS that work perfectly and keep out the human flotsam.

For the lucky few, multiplayer is a scream. But most gamers who try multiplayer are at the mercy of total strangers with questionable manners and unpredictable commitment, making multiplayer a rage only in the sense that you find yourself angrily clicking the “exit” button. Fortunately, despite its flaws, LFS has a very solid and enjoyable single-player mode.
__________________________________________________ _____________

As you can see from the review above, etiquette lacks in this game in all places. I agree that the multiplayer feature is way too overrated and when some people play from countries from all over lag begins to become a factor in these situations and some just don't provide the distance needed to compensate for this either. Immaturity exists in the online public community like a plague. Oh and mind you I was able to play full s2 for a full week online and experience these shortcomings first hand at a friends house.

I also hear and see about people coming from counter-strike to play this game which counter-strike does not lend itself a good name either. Young kids play that game and are exposed to all the vile BS that goes on and learn a lot of smart talk. Kids as young as 8 or 7. Kids even younger than that play. So that in itself makes a very bad image.

Then you have those who drive insanely aggressive as they would not drive in real life. Or maybe they would drive as such in real life and find out the hard way. People locking brakes skidding all along. Some drive the game like Need for Speed and some don't think about warming their tires first before going full out.

[Gentlefoot]

Join the Clean Racers Club and bad drivers become a thing of the past! You don't have to be fast but you do have to be able to give people space and make sensible decisions in a race situation.

[Hyperactive]

I really haven't seen much these lock braking or NFS(stfu) people much online recently or wreckers probably at all. Some dangerous driving but nothing really shockingly bad or idiotic.

There was a thread some time ago about a person asking what the different flags mean... this is the problem at the moment. Some people just don't know what they mean and therefore make some unpredictable moves. This is not explained anywhere inside LFS and people who don't visit these forums will never find out.

And that review is from S1 ages. Dunno if it is different now but so far there are not so many idiots around as many people think. Just little more patience on both sides (in driving as in banning/kicking) and it will be allrite.

PS. adulterated, which cars did you try online?

[adulterated]

Here is a replay I recorded of many idiots wrecking in a demo drift server which is quite popular (Sneaky Monkey Drifters). Since the file was 3.2 MB I was unable to attach it here in the forum. So the link to it is http://adulterated.hopto.org/idiots.zip

Now mind you, when you first start this demo you will see some other 2 bickering about kid stuff. This is unrelated to the wreckers in general. You might wanna fast forward it also because I was attempting to warm up with grip when the nonsense started.

Now, I know there are gonna be some of you saying well that doesn't happen in s2 or league racing but you gotta realize that most of us can't invest the time into stuff like that with work and family. I even like driving desolate 2 lane highways in real life more than just doing it on the computer. I guess that review I copied and pasted is a good reminder of this saying that most gamers (casual) will be susceptible to this type of behavior.

I'll just be happy with the fact of knowing that most of these wrecker kids will only have the balls to do this stuff online and not in real life. But really, anyone who has anger in them uses this as a way to vent or uses other games (a la counter-strike :pillepall) really needs to see a psychiatrist or be man and act out in real life if their that angry. :smileypul

[Iron_Maiden]

I now what you mean about people not pressing the ban....It can be pretty frustrating but if only you are seeing what this guys doing then nobody else bans....

Its worst on the oval servers...the other day there was a definate wrecker.....he was parking in the middle of the road and swerving wide in corners to take people out....

Despite him ruining the race over 10 times in a row...he wasnt banned becuase he said he was a newbie.....

There really isnt to much you can do....just try and alert the other racers to what is going on and hope they will agree.

[Jakg]

i have recently had an elightening experience as my friends have recently started playing LFS, and after going on demo servers i have seen some "shady" characters, including people who randomly ban, that claim i cheat because i am involved in a crash with them (picture it, im going very fast in an XFG at the blackwood chicane, am about to overtake a very sideways XRT, i miss calculate his speed slightly, and we end up taking the chicane side-by-side, well im ahead, but my rear wheels were next to his fronts, he taps me over the kerb, i dont have time to react and roll onto him, but somehow recover with a very smashged up car while he managed to spin, of course i "cheated" to get past him!), i also meet quite a few people who cant control the XRT, but still pick it, and often (i start at the front) they try to get past on the first straight, they arent expecting me to be so slow of the line (hey! i have 175 hp less than you!) and end up ramming me and calling me a n00b, same on the first corner, they end up drifting and using the other cars to send them back on track. The worst person ive met so far was Luke Duke who fishtailed me without apology, them did the same to my friend, then to several other racers, then after i questioned him about it he came up with three key points:
1. He owned a better car than me (well, he doesnt know what car i own, or that my friend, Pellit, happens to be rather well off, lets just say that he may own an SL-500, although i doubt this, but Pellit, just by selling property in london could afford 4 SLR's, ill let you do the Maths!), ergo he was therefore aloowed to crash me off the circuit
2. That it was a game, and that therefore he could do what he wanted
3. That smashing three people off the circuit so badly they had to pit wasnt ruining their races!

The other thing is that i am teaching my friends basic race-craft, and was very tuprised to hear their views on right of way, they bleieved that if you are ahead or on a lap more than the other racer, you always have right of way, even if you are re-joiing the track, the other thing they believed was that it was the racers on the track to avoid you as you join the track, not for you to wait until it is clear!

[tinvek]

last night i went on demo servers as i was determined to get faster so went to the track i know best

anyway

2 drivers on there amongst other and one keeps calling the other a wrecker so i went into spectate for next race and no problems.

went driving again and what u know driver a says b has pushed him off then he pushes a off

did a quick save told em i was going to watch and then came back and told em

a was actually pushed by c but only a typical 1st corner touch nothing that influenced race b then doesnt even brake and rams b at end of straight after chicane. of course he denies this then calls for driver b, c and d to be banned, d being me who wasnt even racing!

anyway common sense ruled and a got banned

moral is makesure your set up so you can save the race and watch it calls for ban keep hapening, its easy to spot whos at fault and i ve also noticed that if you threaten to watch replays the prat often leaves

[r4ptor]

I rarely experience drivers who wreck others on purpose, but on the other hand I almost always experience drivers who know too little about how to race - even some fast drivers are not completely aware of this.

I wrote an idea about this in here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=81602#post81602

Don't know if it's any good- - just an idea.