Kyoto 500 Practice Evenings

[J@tko]

In this thread, I will post information about the Kyoto 500 Practice evenings. Due to other commitments, we may only decide to have a practice evening on the same actual day, but we'll post in here as soon as we know.

There will be a separate post for each evening, giving all the vital information, such as server, password, format e.t.c

Each evening will be a little different, for example some will be lots of shorter sprint races, others longer ones.

The purpose of these evenings is to get you more experienced with the cars and each other, to gain your online laps needed, to fulfill the appearance requirement and for the admins to get to know you.

Hope to see you all there guys :)

EDIT 1: I will get a register going for people turning up :)
EDIT 2: To be 'present' at an evening will usually mean being there for at least 1 race. Putting you as present on the register will be at my discretion.

[J@tko]

Practice Evening Number 1:

Server: FRO Server 4 (lfs://|FRO%7CFormulaRacing.Org%7C%234|0|S2|/) (FRO|FormulaRacing.Org|#4)
Password: See the Private Message you have been sent
Time and date: 27/04/08 (this Sunday), starting at around 8pm BST
Format: 10 min quali - 20 lap race - 10 min quali - 60 lap race w/pit stop.

+2 edits to the above post.

Non-Kyoto 500 entrants will be kicked.

[Twozzok]

BST is what we're currently on right?

[JO53PHS]

Password: See PM (coming soon :D)

Jack you idiot :really:

You sent me a PM to send to everyone else without the password in, and now you want me to send the pass.

What the heck do I do now? Re-PM 25 and tell them I failed?

EDIT: The 25 people have been re-PMed :schwitz:

[J@tko]

Jack you idiot :really:

You sent me a PM to send to everyone else without the password in, and now you want me to send the pass.

What the heck do I do now? Re-PM 25 and tell them I failed?

EDIT: The 25 people have been re-PMed :schwitz:

Oh shit. Sorry Joe :(

It was late last night and I was really tired :(

Really sorry! :(

EDIT: Can u PM me the pass? :D

[jwardy]

epic fails dong well here :D see you tomorow

[Fuse5]

wont be attending tomorrow.

1. It is way too late for me for a sunday evening ( i go to school, and i dont live in the UK)
2. I have a GTTC race as well.

[Stefani24]

could i race tomorrow?
i just need to get the 300 laps.

[TFalke55]

could i race tomorrow?
i just need to get the 300 laps.

i think it is opened for everyone who signed up :thumb:

[J@tko]

wont be attending tomorrow.

1. It is way too late for me for a sunday evening ( i go to school, and i dont live in the UK)
2. I have a GTTC race as well.

Ok, thats fine :)

There'll be plenty of other opportunities. We'll start with one a week for the moment, then by the time we get close it might end up being one every evening :)

could i race tomorrow?
i just need to get the 300 laps.
Yep.

i think it is opened for everyone who signed up :thumb:
Yep.

[h3adbang3r]

BST is the time zone you are in, right J@tko?

[JO53PHS]

BST is the time zone you are in, right J@tko?

Yes :)

[J@tko]

What Joe said :D

BST = EDT +5 :)

There will be a TS server - information to come :)

[evilpimp]

Sorry bout the incident during SC period at start O_O I have no clue why I put it in neutral and back to first. :S

Anyways, was a cool race. I did bad but probably just because I was really thinking about my hw.

Sorry I had to leave halfway, I just have to start working now.

I'll try to attend the next one. Hopefully it wont be during the exam weekend!

[J@tko]

Issues we noticed:


Clutches burning on the second grid
People having no idea what was going on
Start procedure still a tad rusty
Not enough admins on server
Too much chat?Solutions:

Um. :shrug: Niko? :D
See below for more (when it comes)
Practice makes perfect
We'll be doing it at a different time next time
Comments? - TS Server?If you have anything else - then please comment.

[J@tko]

Maz has just pointed out on TS that there may be a language barrier issue. If you don't understand anything, please ask someone - we will happily help :)

[h3adbang3r]

When the safety car was announced, not a single car slowed down a bit. I'm still waiting for a replay to look into, but until then I want to know from others why my car was spun and demolished. Other than that, great racing guys!

[mikeslater]

i had too point but one seems to have been talked about so ill leave that

number 2 was.
the safety car.
can anyone please explain why?
all i can see is it gives someone something to do or bunch the pack up when your mates aint winning

you see i thought it was to slow the pack down after a crash. but when to day we did the rolling start and got going right away someone crashed and it came out, almost useless really but ok but as the pack got closer to each other there was another crash just before t3 and what did the so called safety car do? pulled in and the race restarted i mean seems kinda stupid to me but whatever i just hope all this crap is sorted before the race bacause ifs it like it was today, it'll be piss poor

[TFalke55]

When the safety car was announced, not a single car slowed down a bit. I'm still waiting for a replay to look into, but until then I want to know from others why my car was spun and demolished. Other than that, great racing guys!

Safety Car procedure
2. You may continue to pass other cars, until you cross the S/F line. Watch for local yellows.

I think that is one of the major weaknesses of the rulebook. It should be like in f1 today. The positions should be freezed instantly and maybe a suggestion to do it better, you should put speedlimiter until the leader catched up to the safety car. You can easily see this as admin, if someone uses the limiter or not. Another thing zsmy suggested: the first gear is madentory to set to 112kph. So the admins could control it easier. Also the usage of Race Director, with this insim buttons showing you a caution (like in reallife IndyCar the speedo does).

[JO53PHS]

I think that is one of the major weaknesses of the rulebook. It should be like in f1 today. The positions should be freezed instantly and maybe a suggestion to do it better, you should put speedlimiter until the leader catched up to the safety car. You can easily see this as admin, if someone uses the limiter or not. Another thing zsmy suggested: the first gear is madentory to set to 112kph. So the admins could control it easier. Also the usage of Race Director, with this insim buttons showing you a caution (like in reallife IndyCar the speedo does).

I agree.

I am considering chaging it to:

"As soon as the caution is called, racing is stopped. An immediate no overtaking rule will be enforced. Cars are to slow down to safety car speed and proceed around the track until they reach the SC"

[evilpimp]

How is it possible to catch up to a car which is going at the same speed as you?

If the SC is going at 112 kmh and you are going at 112 kmh USUALLY you shouldn't catch up. So perhaps just no overtaking rule and slowing down is recommended rule.

(I'm talking about the slowing down to SC speed and catch up to SC rule btw)

[DeadWolfBones]

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

If you immediately slow to SC speed you'll never catch the SC.

[TFalke55]

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.

If you immediately slow to SC speed you'll never catch the SC.

well the SC wait at start finish, so you will catch up... that's my thought about it :shrug:

[evilpimp]

It will wait for EVERYONE on the track to catch up? Even those who pit during SC period and who are going to have to keep that SC speed (Which will make it impossible for them to rejoin at the back of the pack).

Imo it should simply be no overtake and catch up to the SC at a safe speed.

[TFalke55]

It will wait or EVERYONE on the track to catch up? Even those who pit during SC period and who are going to have to keep that SC speed (Which will make it impossible for them to rejoin at the back of the pack).

Imo it should simply be no overtake and catch up to the SC at a safe speed.

I think we are speaking about the beginning of a caution. The Pits will be closed, visualisized by an InSim, and audiosized by the Admins on Teamspeak, and the SC is waiting on the Start/finish line for the leader and then you go on. When the Pits are opened you can catch up to the last man in the row behind the SC. :shrug:

[evilpimp]

K, well makes sense. Exept that once the leader goes with the SC those half a lap behind will probably not catch th SC aftr the s/f line once they slow down. Anyways. Just think about it and do what you think is best.

[Mazar]

Fantastic race, congratulations to Hibex awesome back to back warm up race wins and great driving by all, thanks.

Public apology to Ben (Core Racing) who i hit under yellows. I was talking on TS and trying to type admin stuff at the time.

No excuse, looked up and you had already slowed. Terrible driving by me, sorry.


Maz has just pointed out on TS that there may be a language barrier issue. If you don't understand anything, please ask someone - we will happily help

Not so much of a problem, just a concern. FRO admins come from England, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Belgium, Holland and most European languages can be handled.

If we get the racers through the server and inform them then we can get them up to speed with TS and use of. I think after the first two events its critical to smooth running.

A few other comments:

1) Safety car procedure.

This cannot be a variable, must be written in stone what is going to happen under Yellow flags. As hardened road racers need to know clearly what will happen with these situations. I slowed, increased speed and was unsure myself in the yellow's today it isnt easy to read messages being past in the txt chat when driving.

This aspect of the rules is the most alien to road racers and i think the biggest danger for the race and admins to control. Making this very clear and easy to understand is vital i think.

Also, it should be a standard procedure not a variable in my opinion. Crash, yellow, slow no pass and line up behind car for 2 or 3 laps.

2) Pitting.

Again this needs absolute clarification. Exactly when you can pit. Conditions of, speed etc. People where passing after pit lane entry, inside the cones.

2) Timings.

Clear timings. At 4pm qualifying starts with drivers meeting of 5 mins. Then 30 mins or 1hr qualifying 1 flying lap. Then clear timings for the race.

This will really help us i think as we can issue clear instructions in multiple languages to the racers and they will know clearly what to expect and exactly when.

3) TXT Chat.

This has to stop. Cannot be as it is to confusing and requires racers to read every message. If the rules are clear enough and all racers are confirmed as knowing them there is nothing to talk about.

Abuse of messaging is dangerous to the event and racers should be penalized.

4) Blue Flags.

Are cars under blue flags allowed to race with cars further up the race order? should there be a limit? ie, cars that are more than -2 laps should move aside for leaders and let them go? a clear instruction/rule here i think needs to be in place.

Today's event i think was a major leap forward from last weeks, starts much much better. Keep it coming guys, going to be a hell of a event with 50 plus cars trying to qualify for the 32 slots on the grid. Makings of a awesome event, thanks organizing team, your doing a great job.

Best, Maz

[jwardy]

sorry i dident come back after i got rid of this spyware i had a power cut lol , i mean what else .

[DeadWolfBones]

Fantastic race, congratulations to Hibex awesome back to back warm up race wins and great driving by all, thanks.

Public apology to Ben (Core Racing) who i hit under yellows. I was talking on TS and trying to type admin stuff at the time.

No excuse, looked up and you had already slowed. Terrible driving by me, sorry.

Oh, that was no big deal. No damage, anyway.

The reason I left was that the admins let that guy Grainger keep driving around and running into people, even after he'd been kicked once. Was a bit too much ridiculousness for me at that point.

[mikeslater]

eg.
today i was in 5th place and abour 2.50s away from 4th got it down to about 1.8ish and he had caught and lapped a back marker now you need a clear rule that say weather or not 4th place can use the lapped car to draft with or weather the lapped car has to allow 4th to go far enough ahead so there is no draft.

because to me its unfair on 3rd and 5th if 4th has a back marker to draft with surely he should be racing 3rd and 5th not useing lapped cars

but its your race its yours to decide :)

ps. i am english but i have dislexia so sorry for the misstakes and some of it might not make sence lol :)

[Mazar]

because to me its unfair on 3rd and 5th if 4th has a back marker to draft with surely he should be racing 3rd and 5th not useing lapped cars

In that situation the danger is that 4th brings with him a back marker into effectively a battle for the lead. Although the back marker may be able to draft with a faster racer he should not be in a lead battle as his presence in a 3 car battle would most likely determine the race finish..the opposite is also possible (in that the backmarker could be faster) and a car a lap down drafting with the leaders is still also of course still racing the cars behind him.

Oh, that was no big deal. No damage, anyway.

Great :thumb:


The reason I left was that the admins let that guy Grainger keep driving around and running into people, even after he'd been kicked once. Was a bit too much ridiculousness for me at that point

J.Grainger was kicked earlier this week from the #4 server for more or less the same things. He was kicked while he was about to be vote banned by other racers on the server. Also, he was kicked this morning during races and managed to hit at least one other car while on the formation grid!

Best, Maz

[JO53PHS]

About the SC rule - The SC will stop on track / creep along slowly until the cars catch up. Of course you can't catch something going the same speed as you when you have a massive gap :D

How about...:

"As soon as the caution is called, racing is stopped. An immediate no overtaking rule will be enforced. Cars are to slow down to safety car speed and proceed around the track until they reach the SC. The SC will remain stationary or at a suitable speed until cars have caught up"

[Mazar]

"As soon as the caution is called, racing is stopped. An immediate no overtaking rule will be enforced. Cars are to slow down to safety car speed and proceed around the track until they reach the SC. The SC will remain stationary or at a suitable speed until cars have caught up"

Sounds perfect.

Best, Maz

[J@tko]

Thanks for coming everyone.

I'm gonna go through everyone's issues one by one below.

A couple of things we know will have improved by the next one:

Me, Deko and Joe will be there all the time, and not wasting your time playing scrabble
Our rather swanky insim system (thanks to mcgas001) should be operative, albeit in an alpha (and unfinished) state. However, this should improve several aspects of the evening.
I think we are speaking about the beginning of a caution. The Pits will be closed, visualisized by an InSim, and audiosized by the Admins on Teamspeak, and the SC is waiting on the Start/finish line for the leader and then you go on. When the Pits are opened you can catch up to the last man in the row behind the SC. :shrug:

About the SC rule - The SC will stop on track / creep along slowly until the cars catch up. Of course you can't catch something going the same speed as you when you have a massive gap :D

How about...:

"As soon as the caution is called, racing is stopped. An immediate no overtaking rule will be enforced. Cars are to slow down to safety car speed and proceed around the track until they reach the SC. The SC will remain stationary or at a suitable speed until cars have caught up"

I agree with that Joe.



Not so much of a problem, just a concern. FRO admins come from England, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Belgium, Holland and most European languages can be handled.

If we get the racers through the server and inform them then we can get them up to speed with TS and use of. I think after the first two events its critical to smooth running.

Might we need to translate any rules/other things into other languages? Any volunteers? (I only speak fairly bad French and Spanish)


1) Safety car procedure.

This cannot be a variable, must be written in stone what is going to happen under Yellow flags. As hardened road racers need to know clearly what will happen with these situations. I slowed, increased speed and was unsure myself in the yellow's today it isnt easy to read messages being past in the txt chat when driving.

This aspect of the rules is the most alien to road racers and i think the biggest danger for the race and admins to control. Making this very clear and easy to understand is vital i think.

Also, it should be a standard procedure not a variable in my opinion. Crash, yellow, slow no pass and line up behind car for 2 or 3 laps.

See the above on the rule change. (as you pointed out above)



2) Pitting.

Again this needs absolute clarification. Exactly when you can pit. Conditions of, speed etc. People where passing after pit lane entry, inside the cones.

Pit lane openness (sorry for inventing a word :D) is covered by the insim. The pit lane entry/exit rule will be strictly enforced.

You may overtake on the pit entry/exit, but is obviously more risky and more likely to earn you a penalty, and so we discourage it.


3) Timings.

Clear timings. At 4pm qualifying starts with drivers meeting of 5 mins. Then 30 mins or 1hr qualifying 1 flying lap. Then clear timings for the race.

This will really help us i think as we can issue clear instructions in multiple languages to the racers and they will know clearly what to expect and exactly when.

You suggested this on TS last night and I completely agree.

We should have some stone-set schedules for the next one.


4) TXT Chat.

This has to stop. Cannot be as it is to confusing and requires racers to read every message. If the rules are clear enough and all racers are confirmed as knowing them there is nothing to talk about.

Abuse of messaging is dangerous to the event and racers should be penalized.

Covered by insim.


5) Blue Flags.

Are cars under blue flags allowed to race with cars further up the race order? should there be a limit? ie, cars that are more than -2 laps should move aside for leaders and let them go? a clear instruction/rule here i think needs to be in place.

Hmm. I watched Niko 'race' those on the lead lap. Personally, I don't have a problem as long as they don't cause an accident. However, for practical reasons, there should be a rule in place for this. I will discuss it.


Today's event i think was a major leap forward from last weeks, starts much much better. Keep it coming guys, going to be a hell of a event with 50 plus cars trying to qualify for the 32 slots on the grid. Makings of a awesome event, thanks organizing team, your doing a great job.

Cheers Maz. I was pleased with the starts we had.

This is the first practice evening, and these evenings are designed to iron out any bugs in the system before the big race, so that it goes as well as possible.

[TFalke55]

Might we need to translate any rules/other things into other languages? Any volunteers? (I only speak fairly bad French and Spanish)
I'm going to translate it to german this very week. I should be finished with the new LFSCART rulebook version by wednesday. So this would also be the date when I finish the translation. I'm going to talk with zsmy to get sure that everyone can understand what is meant.

Hmm. I watched Niko 'race' those on the lead lap. Personally, I don't have a problem as long as they don't cause an accident. However, for practical reasons, there should be a rule in place for this. I will discuss it.
Hmm just came back from the IndyCar.com-Page: There are blue-flags with an orange stripe to show that a faster car is coming, but there was nowhere standing that it is madentory to let the car pass. Somewhere else I read, that this flag is only an advisitive flag. The Flag rules can be found here http://www.indycar.com/tech/flags.php
One major problem of US single seater motorsports: The sporting rules are not online avaidable :D The F1 rules are avaidable over fia.com, the DTM rules are avaidable over dmsb.de, WTCC and ETCC over fiawtcc.com and fiaetcc.com.

OT: something for the 2009 Kyoto 500: The original Qualifying procedure: http://www.indycar.com/tech/qualifying.php

[hyntty]

Thanks for coming everyone.

Might we need to translate any rules/other things into other languages? Any volunteers? (I only speak fairly bad French and Spanish)


I'd offer, but solely for Niko, can't be bothered. And my Estonian is as good as my Swedish which is as good as you'd expect from a finnish-speaking Finn, so no point there either.

But seriously, I've actually got a point: If you use a teamspeak channel where interesting info is distributed, just selfishly require to use English (or other "majority" language, who knows if we all know Danish). Trust me, it'll be better and easier. And there'll be less disinformation.

[h3adbang3r]

For cars entering pit road under yellow, I'd suggest keeping the cars going in at safety car speed, and no overtaking going into pit road, or out of. The position you cross the line in will be the position you stay in when you reach the safety car. (Speeding up to reach the safety car from leaving pit road would be feasible, as not to cause incident from the safety car slowing in front of the cars that didn't pit.)

[evilpimp]

I can do the french translation if given enough time. Stupid school -_-. (BTW, I go to a french school with IB)

[J@tko]

There will be another practice evening in the next week or so.

Don't worry - we haven't forgotten :D

I've been really busy with work recently, so Deko and Joe are in charge until my exams are done.

[NtrlBrnRacer]

Jack, whats the pass for the new server i got you guys?

[J@tko]

Jack, whats the pass for the new server i got you guys?

I'll pm you the admin pass.

[NtrlBrnRacer]

got it thanks! :)

[dekojester]

I'd like to do a practice session this Saturday, but want to do it at a time that doesn't conflict with LFSCART.

I'm thinking aroudn 1400 UTC ? Do an hour of FP followed
by qual and race (counted as two individual sessions, like last week)

Let me know what works for you.

Also, what about Sunday ?

d

[NtrlBrnRacer]

i need to talk to deko, joe, or jack about the PM program we had for the LFSBC.

[evilpimp]

i need to talk to deko, joe, or jack about the PM program we had for the LFSBC.

That was a really awesome program :)

[J@tko]

I'd like to do a practice session this Saturday, but want to do it at a time that doesn't conflict with LFSCART.

I'm thinking aroudn 1400 UTC ? Do an hour of FP followed
by qual and race (counted as two individual sessions, like last week)

Let me know what works for you.

Also, what about Sunday ?

d

Oh god - not another thing on Saturday :D

Ive got this, LFSCART and H2H :D

Sunday - no can do (unless its late in the evening) - im off to Rockingham to watch the F3/GT meeting

EDIT THAT: F3/GT is on B/H Monday. So Sunday is fine for me :)

That was a really awesome program :)
I have it :)

[hyntty]

So how's it gonna be then this weekend? Saturday is quite full, GP2 is on at 1400.

[LazLoW]

So, Sunday,1400 UTC?

[J@tko]

We're just waiting for deko to confirm. He should be here in a mo.

EDIT: Just as I write this, he has come online :D

[h3adbang3r]

I won't be able to attend this practice session as I am heading out of town. Also, the PDF sheet has yet to be updated, I haven't seen mine or other's practice session counts updated.

[LazLoW]

Sooo is it happening?

[JO53PHS]

Also, the PDF sheet has yet to be updated, I haven't seen mine or other's practice session counts updated.

Deko is the only one who has the software to update PDFs. If it had remained a Excel document, we would have been able to update it every few days. :(

Sooo is it happening?

We're just waiting for deko to confirm.
:shrug:

[J@tko]

Ah. I thought Deko was going to write here last night. Obviously not :(

Anyway, the practice is tonight at 1730BST.

Can't remember the format of it - you'll be told when you get there :tilt:

[Dalek0220]

So it's at 5:00, yes?:thumbsup:

Seriously, I wanna get all the action of the pitlane tonight.

[hyntty]

Why do I have the feeling that not many people will show up?

[J@tko]

EDIT: The Practice is at 1730BST

Furthermore, there will be a practice tomorrow (Sunday) at 1800BST

Remember, this will count towards your practices if you're short.

BTW, BST = UTC (GMT) +1

[hyntty]

So teh lfscart test is an hour and a half later?

[J@tko]

So teh lfscart test is an hour and a half later?
LFSCART starts at 1900 BST.

[evilpimp]

I might show up depending on how my H2H practice is going. But I don't need anymore practice sessions so it'll just be for fun.

Btw deko : I pm'd you quite a while ago and no answer :P

[dekojester]

I know I've been scarce recently...the first half of this week was filled right up with a project, then the latter half with another. Boo !

I'll update the lot tonight.

And for the record, Jack was supposed to post the session infos last night when I told it to him !

d

[h3adbang3r]

What happened to the event? There have been no practice sessions for the past two weeks. Has the event been abandoned?

[dekojester]

I wasn't feeling well this past weekend, and with the first round of LFSCART, I wanted to make sure that had everyone's full attention.

I will be doing sessions this weekend, and pretty often the week after next.

The event has not been abandoned.

d

[h3adbang3r]

Alright, that's good to know. :)

[JO53PHS]

What happened to the event? There have been no practice sessions for the past two weeks. Has the event been abandoned?

We wouldn't ever abandon an event :)

Another reason why nothing much has happened (probably) is because Jack is revising and doing his GCSEs (t3h uber l33t big exams in the UK :D) and I am doing examz too (although not as important as Jack's :D)