Sunmapping

[wheel4hummer]

Can we have sunmapping on the track? that would make the game much better! :shrug:

[ATHome]

How do you mean that ?

[Vain]

A different question:
What do you understand under "sunmapping"?

Vain

[Roadie]

I think he means is like in NFSU:MW, where the track reflects the sun. I dont think the graphics engine in LFS can do that. Its like DX7 or whatever.

[ajp71]

LFS is a simulation, all sims should put the physics and communication from the car first, fancy graphical bollocks should be reserved for arcade games. LFS's graphics are real enough atm. my computer can run them fine, as are NetKar Namie's and GPL/N2003.

Maybe you don't feel the same way about graphics quality but I personally find with too many sun and shading effects I can't read whats happening clearly, running in a decent resolution is far more important. Even with 7 year old textures the original GPL tracks are good enough to get the feel, once your into a sim it doesn't matter what the graphics are as it feels right, the more complications you add into the graphics the harder it is to get yourself to start seeing the track and car as being real rather than on cathode ray tubes a foot away from your face.

[Fonnybone]

Say no to shiny tracks !! Oh the horror, i can see it now, it's night, neons
signs everywhere and a shiny track reflecting as a mirror, aaaaarrrgg, my
eyes !!!

I want to see rain and working wipers if that track is going to reflect anything.

[wheel4hummer]

Well, Ive seen this effect in RL. And, the graphics in real life are a little more realistic than LFS.

[SparkyDave]

Well, Ive seen this effect in RL. And, the graphics in real life are a little more realistic than LFS.

what resolution are you running real life in? :D

Shiny tracks = wet tracks that would be nice ..
SD.

[wheel4hummer]

what resolution are you running real life in? :D Well, I have a terrible video card, so everything is blurry.

[Eldanor]

Say no to shiny tracks !! Oh the horror, i can see it now, it's night, neons signs everywhere and a shiny track reflecting as a mirror, aaaaarrrgg, my eyes !!!

Don't be that extremist (did I invent that word?) :)

Roads reflect light, not every of them, but heavyly used roads do. I start working at 3 pm, and on the way to work, on clean sunny days, there are some roads I use that are very, very bright. The problem is that some games make not only the track glossy, but the grass (stupid), dirt, and everything on the screen.

A dry track does not act as a mirror, but I can assure you it reflects light a lot :)

[wheel4hummer]

A dry track does not act as a mirror, but I can assure you it reflects light a lot :)

FINIALLY someone who agrees with me. I didn't mean GT4-esque sunmapping, I meant where you can see that there are brighter areas. It also depends on the time of day.

[tristancliffe]

Yes tarmac reflects when the angle of incidence is quite low.

But, the majority of games (not just car sims) have overdone the effect purely because they can. I'd be for it (in the latter stages of S3) as long as the effect is kept subtle and realistic. If the sun reflects all the time then it'll be one effect I'd turn off.

[ajp71]

I don't think anyone has disagreed with you that tarmac is sometimes shiny, more with a matte style than the glossy style more commonly seen, same goes for slick tires.

It would require a whole load of new shaders being put into LFS which I don't think should be the top priority atm.

[Roadie]

Well, I have a terrible video card, so everything is blurry.

Yet you want something extremely graphic intensive? makes no sence.

[Eldanor]

I don't mind if it is graphic intensive, because sooner or later I will have a better gfx card :) As long as the graphic details are configurable it's ok :thumb:

I don't need it for S2 either, but it is one of that details that would be graet to have in S3. And as tristan said, it's a great detail when it's well done, but looks awful when over used.

[wheel4hummer]

Yet you want something extremely graphic intensive? makes no sence.

I was joking. If you noticed, I was replying to when he said what resolution do you run real life in, and I am nearsighted. :razz:

[Fonnybone]

Ya, i was being extremist. Nothing bad with shaking a few cages sometimes. Like others said, most games will use glossy surfaces to
showcase their effects and always overdo it, tarmac is not a smooth surface like i see in most games. But i have confidence in the
devs so i'm sure if it comes, it'll be better than i expected ;)

Btw, i've been driving for about 15 years now, so yes, i have seen the sun reflected on shiny tarmac to the point where you
can't see, although most of the time, it's the windshield that 'loses transparency'. Also, it's at a specific time of day and certain
conditions must meet. It's also very dangerous since most people hit the brakes. In any case, i can, and NEED to find ways to reduce
the glare to see (sunvisor, sunglasses, moving head to block out the sun), there's virtually no way to reproduce this with a PC monitor.

[Eldanor]

n any case, i can, and NEED to find ways to reduce
the glare to see (sunvisor, sunglasses, moving head to block out the sun), there's virtually no way to reproduce this with a PC monitor.

True, we are very limited in some areas for being sit in a desktop :( Beware the new generation of heavy HDR games. Graphic coders unleashed :)

[MadCatX]

Effect you are talking about can come with rain.... can you imagine NO-REFLECTING wet track? And when we can do for water, make it for tarmac should't be hard(I know that rain ref./tarmac ref. are two different effect in RL, but for HDR, PixelShader GFX it is the same - just a reflection)

[ajp71]

Why on earth do you want to add an effect that makes it hard to see anything, IRL sunsets cause crashes so why add them to LFS when you've just started a thread complaining about driving standards?

[MadCatX]

I'll be short. LFS wants to be real. And every real thing in the world that will be implemented in LFS will make it a little more real.

(I don't say that it must be priority, but once(S3) it'd be nice - if it'll be made correclty, not like NFS:MW "beamer")

[Vain]

Why on earth do you want to add an effect that makes it hard to see anything, IRL sunsets cause crashes so why add them to LFS when you've just started a thread complaining about driving standards?You are absolutely right. That's really too dangerous. We should immediately enforce speed-limits on the race track, remove skidding - at best remove all centrifugal forces. Oh, I have an idea, why not remove LFS? Then no one would be able to ruin other people's races ever again!
Ha, I found the sollution, thanks to you, ajp71!

Okay, sarcasm aside:
More realism is good for LFS. If in reality the sun poses a danger, then it shall also be such a danger in LFS.

No offense intended. :)

Vain

[Electrik Kar]

More realism is good for LFS. If in reality the sun poses a danger, then it shall also be such a danger in LFS.

I agree...

Being slightly startled by a bit of HDR glare around a particular corner or two could provide some extra (albeit minimal) challenge, and would probably look pretty awesome...

Unfortunately my video card doesn't like HDR... :(

[hrtburnout]

You could just turn it off. I'd like to see these effect in LFS, but if it reduces my FPS badly i'd turn it off :)

[keiran]

Thing is nearly all racing drivers wear tinted visors to avoid the sun glare ...

[Becky Rose]

Anything which visually impairs a driver should be the same for everyone - therefore if a 'detrimental' effect does not work on machines on the entry level specification then it shouldnt be in the game. A level playing field is important to maintain when races are often won and lost in tenths of a second.

[BurnOut69]

What I dont get is why whenver someone reads the words "Need for speed" in a thread they freak out and immediately start to bash whatever is said...NFS MW has some nice effects (very exaggerated, agreed on that) and I wouldnt mind having some of those in LFS IF implemented properly.

[Live For Kill]

ok, but lets see the reflections: even the cars not reflect normally! just go under a bridge (or wtf) and the car wont reflect it (well at blackwood not). i think the reflection is just only for the sky.

[XCNuse]

MW does it nicely for the ground that it has, it may not look real to you guys, but if you've ever seen worn crumbled tarmac like it is, i think its almost perfectly accurate, close enough atleast

i suggested this along time ago too (or someone did.. cant remember).. this is an S3 graphical suggestion still though

[Live For Kill]

of course! the S2 had improved graphics from the S1, that can be truly, that S3 (und S4) will have better graphics.

[joen]

I'm all for eyecandy, as long as;

1. it's done tastefully and not overdone
2. the development of other elements of the game like physics are not affected
3. it will be optional in case my (or other people's) pc can't handle it

looking at the development process of lfs so far I have no doubt the devs will meet these requirements

[Electrik Kar]

There's a demo of the new MS flight sim X, -nice reflections in the windshield (if you call it that for planes), nice sun effects, weather, you name it. I can see some stuff being added to the LFS graphical wishlist...

[wheel4hummer]

There's a demo of the new MS flight sim X, -nice reflections in the windshield (if you call it that for planes), nice sun effects, weather, you name it. I can see some stuff being added to the LFS graphical wishlist...

May I ask why you bumped my thread that I started in my "demo days?"

[joen]

May I ask why you bumped my thread that I started in my "demo days?"

Bumping old threads is not forbidden or wrong afaik?
I agree that bumping old threads with a useless comment is lame, but if it adds something to the discussion I don't see what's wrong with it :shrug:
Better to use an already existing thread than to make a new one.
There has been some comments in this thread about sunmapping being arcadey or over the top eyecandy.
All Electrik did was refer to MSFS to show how maybe it could be done tastefully (I don't know if it is, I haven't seen it).
I don't see the problem.

[Electrik Kar]

Well, the last posts were in June...

[XCNuse]

.. should get reflections like Toca race driver did; i remember when the first one came out i was just plain amazed you could even see other cars reflecting off your hood or off another side of a car etc.

[Electrik Kar]

.. should get reflections like Toca race driver did; i remember when the first one came out i was just plain amazed you could even see other cars reflecting off your hood or off another side of a car etc.

To add, the custom skin renders that get tossed around the forum look pretty awesome when they're reflecting themselves!

I've never seen working rearview mirrors in any other game apart from LFS. Or was I just not paying attention? To me, that was a defining graphical moment- 'wow, they're actually working! Cool!'...

[XCNuse]

lol you must not have been paying attention, i cant think of many games out there that dont have rearview mirrors (or at the least 1 central one)

[Electrik Kar]

whoops. I meant side mirrors..:schwitz: And I meant on the other cars, as you were racing... Sorry, it's very hot here tonight..

[tristancliffe]

I think he meant from OUTSIDE the car (i.e. you can see other mirrors working, even if they are just copies of your own) ;)

[ajp71]

If you want to see shiny stuff look at nK Pro :)

[LJF]

This is definitely an awesome feature, just so long as it isn't overdone :Looking_a It would add a lot of immersion to the game.

Have any of you not noticed shine on the road? I mean perfectly dry non-arcade-real-life-road? I sure has, it's faint, but that's what'd make it look cool :thumb: