Thank you for not taking the SAMPLE-ier way! [Archive]

Boris Lozac

30th December 2005, 06:44

I really wanted to thank Scawen and co. in choosing to develop the sound in LFS the way they do! :thumb: :smileypul Really, i am VERY greatfull for this!!
Don't want to sound like the uber Fan boy, but i really wanted to say that!
Yesterday i gave a chance to one simulation(no names, you will see in the video), but i really can't believe that some people prefer sampled sounds over this ULTRA INFORMATIVE LFS sound... Been playing their games LONG enough to know what i'm talking about...(and can't believe the progress in this department is still 10 years old).
So... here's the video (http://s1.ultrashare.net/hosting/fs/790836e90e902d22/) of what i am talking about. The way aplying the gas/releasing it, holding it half, 2/3 full, etc is just ridicolous using the samples. They SOUND great, but that's where the story ends. It's an MP3 player...
As far as i am concerned, you can lock the thread, or whatever(preferably locked Sticky ;)). Don't want to start a flame war or whatever, my main goal was just one BIG THANK YOU for the way you are developing the game!! :thumb: Don't give up on this, and don't take shortcuts!!
Thank you for making my second half of this year so FULL of pleasure and entertainment!! :nod: :thumbsup:
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!
Regards.

Vykos69

30th December 2005, 07:30

here you see - err hear - that LFS engine sound is actually really cool, it just lacks a lot of additional sounds. like some whine here, some crackling there etc.

Gunn

30th December 2005, 07:43

Good on you Boris for seeing it as it is. Enjoy the dynamic engine sounds of LFS which give real audible feedback of engine revs. :thumb:

Blackout

30th December 2005, 07:46

That cockpit in that other game there in the vid is just ugly! Looks like its been pulled from NFS1 :pillepall It would have been nice to hear comparison when cars go by the camera, but the winner is clear even without that I suppose. Good vid :thumb:

L(Oo)ney

30th December 2005, 07:51

(preferably locked Sticky ;)).

Stickys are reserved for useful/helpful posts. This isnt useful, or helpful, so it shouldnt be stickied. :x

And LFS still sounds like a bunch of angry wasps when you get into the HIGH RPMs.

Blackout

30th December 2005, 08:12

Wasp power :yipee:

Vain

30th December 2005, 11:04

Signed. Dynamic sounds are the way to go.

Vain

axus

30th December 2005, 11:26

Stickys are reserved for useful/helpful posts. This isnt useful, or helpful, so it shouldnt be stickied. :x

And LFS still sounds like a bunch of angry wasps when you get into the HIGH RPMs.

Hey, here's an idea! Let's try to respect other people's oppinion! There is nothing wrong with voicing your own oppinion but please don't make it sound like your oppinion is the right one for everyone and is therefore the only possible oppinion. I happen to like LFS' basic engine sound and I believe that with a few effects thrown in, LFS' sound engine will be ahead of the competition by miles here too. :thumb:

Theafro

30th December 2005, 11:34

I love the dynamic sound engine, i'm very mechanically minded :pillepall and like to hear things really working hard and most of the engine sounds ingame are awesome:D, ok it might be nice to have some more farts and pops and maybee some sort of variable like exhaust length etc:scratchch, something that would enable the car developer to hone the character of the exhaust sound,:shrug:

the flat 4 engine in the FXR sounds awesome tho guys, sounds frightening at 3 or 5 cylinders but we all know that's just not cricket.:D

SlamDunk

30th December 2005, 14:03

So true. I have always loved how the sound behaves in LFS. Major props once again to the LFS team.

KiDCoDEa

30th December 2005, 16:36

Wasp power :yipee:

LMAO :thumb:

Infiniti

30th December 2005, 17:36

I never whined about the sounds, I only played the gtr and rfactor demo, but since Im so busy trying to keep my line, stay clean, and aware of my surroundings, the sound feedbacks are what help me know when to shift:nod:
I think it could use more ambient sounds but that can be done in s3, theres so much more that can be improved, but its one thing that should be on the list of things to do I hope.

Boris Lozac

30th December 2005, 18:03

I think it could use more ambient sounds but that can be done in s3

Exactly! I just wanted to state that they chose the right way of doing it!! :nod:
They want to give us the best racing feeling, and they are doing it step by step, instead of doing it the "WOW, look how this SOUNDS! I didn't waste that money on my expensive speakers after all" way .. :D :thumb:

huxorator

30th December 2005, 18:04

Sorry, but a V8 boxer need to roar like an elk during rutting season and a turbocharged car needs more than a popoff sound, it needs a screaming kitchen mixer sound on high rpm. LFS has the nice feature of a hearing aid, but the sound feels way to good-behaved to me. Even my supercharged Mini Cooper sounds way more agressive and tempting. Hope devs will redo it.

keiran

30th December 2005, 18:17

They wont re do the sound engine they will just improve it. The fact the Devs have taken the hard way in the damage model, sounds, tyres etc just shows they aren't wanting to take short cuts like pretty much all the other sims.

Keiran

Jakg

30th December 2005, 18:48

not quite sure if any of the engines sound good, but i love the sound the Z750 makes!

deggis

30th December 2005, 22:09

Generated sounds is the right way to do it. The problem is that in LFS the it feels good but sounds bad. In other games it's the other way around: it sounds good but it doesn't give you feedback (maybe with some exceptions like GPL?). After playing LFS for 7 months I just recently started to understand the importance on this aspect. In other games it really just feels that the car engine is not doing the same thing what I'm doing with my gas pedal.

In my opinion Scavier should really hire "a sound man". Just to record and make all the additional sounds. I'd really like to hear in S3 some kind of new sound engine which would combine generated sounds and sampled sounds. AFAIK netKar pro is using that kind of engine?

not quite sure if any of the engines sound good, but i love the sound the Z750 makes!
Whaat? You mean FZ50? :D

mrodgers

31st December 2005, 01:36

This is one of the big problems I have with LFS. The way the sound works and the feedback it gives you competely ruined all other sims for me (ha, that was a little sarcasm, I love the way it's done :thumb: ). As I'm trying to like Racer as a getaway from the online racing and doing a little offline track day thing in simulated real cars, I just can't get the feel of the cars because of the way everything in LFS just melts together for excellent feedback. Sure the sound isn't all that great, but the feedback you get from the way it is developed far outshines the fact that it isn't that great of a sound. I have been diving into the ini file settings of Racer trying to get cars to feel right and everything I test I think, "is this how it would be in LFS?" Definitely Kudos to the devs for doing it the right way rather than the way to just get it released.

Speed Soro

31st December 2005, 03:16

I don't like the shock sounds. They are too sharp. But yes, they are just what they represent, nothing more than that.

It's an awful thing playing rfactor, and you just softly hit a wall and that garish sound of glasses broking and metal parts falling down...

But a sound is just something that can be modificated, given to it a good hearing. I believe is possible to combine samples with on line calculations, and give better sounds more related with real engine sounds, shock sounds, tyre sounds and so on.

I also miss gearbox and diferential sounds, and body sounds.

If gears soubds are there I don't know, but I think they aren't. It must be not too much difficult to simulate gears sounds.

Body sounds is something diferent, that would need other idea, cause once there are only simulated sounds, it would be necessary to simulate the body parts movement to give them their own sounds.

I see a few problems with sounds, such as tyre squeaking, that happens even with car stop, being enough turn the wheels to start screaming.

Tweaker

31st December 2005, 03:24

here you see - err hear - that LFS engine sound is actually really cool, it just lacks a lot of additional sounds. like some whine here, some crackling there etc.

That is exactly what I feel. And well the engine sounds CAN be improved, and I wish there was more 'beef' in the noises, because after hearing some cars... like that V8 Aston Martin, and some Formula cars... we really have some weak and dry sounds.

Would personally like all the other sounds you'd hear in a race car like Vykos just said, and have some engine sound improvement, so they don't sound like robot motors. Because on a nice speaker system, they just don't sound inviting to have at loud volume. :shrug: High RPMs are very low too, and not exciting at all. (for some carS) :(

I would like the devs to stay at synthed sounds, because samples do cut in and out a lot, that is the thing I have never liked about most simulations.

BTW, good video, even the car driving in LFS looks far more like driving a real car.

detail

31st December 2005, 04:33

Before I played MSFS I also thought "samples are bad". But in Microsoft Flight Simulator there is a complicated and flexible system of makig engines sounds. Engine sounds may be constructed of several samples that sound differently, with different loudness at different RPMs. Those who play it, know what I mean, those who don't won't understand.

I need to note also that these samples are subjected to doppler effect (while in LFS the samples, like horns, crashes, are not, and that's noticeable).

Synthesized sounds will be the future, but still samples sound better. The advantage of synthesized is that when I make a different engine in LFSTweak, I get the new sound automatically. :)

tristancliffe

31st December 2005, 09:50

AFAIK netKar pro is using that kind of engine?

This is how false information is created. Netkar will ship initially with both a sampled sound engine and a synthesised sound engine. It will be up to the user to choose which to use, and the less popular will probably be removed from NetKar (or indeed merged into the better system, but thats not been mentioned by Stefano).

SlamDunk

31st December 2005, 11:29

Scavier
The name is Scawen :tilt:

nesrulz

31st December 2005, 11:39

I really wanted to thank Scawen and co. in choosing to develop the sound in LFS the way they do! :thumb: :smileypul Really, i am VERY greatfull for this!!

:iagree: Keep on working dev's. :thumbsup:

RGDS!

tristancliffe

31st December 2005, 13:44

The name is Scawen :tilt:

Scavier means Scawen, Victor and Eric. It's not an official term, but one the community dreamt up.

SlamDunk

31st December 2005, 14:05

Nice! Thanks. I didn't know that. Kinda cool name actually :thumbsup:

ScaViEr / SCAVIER :smileypul

deggis

31st December 2005, 14:39

silent_wind

31st December 2005, 16:24

TO ME the best are GTL sounds, they might not be perfect some may say, but the best so far i've ever heard whether in terms of Revs, fidelity or anythin else..

anyway, LFS sounds are cool on revs but they still need a lotta work... maybe we'll get a similar GTL sounds quality on that up coming S3..

but dont get me wrong , i still like the sim, i drive on LFS since day one ! ;) back to that first demo ever ! lol but i've given it a gooood brake since GTL was out..im just waiting for some good tire physics update..

anyway, that was my point of view concerning sounds..and no need to tell that rfactor's sounds are crap !

happy new year ,

later,

Speed Soro

31st December 2005, 18:48

This is how false information is created. Netkar will ship initially with both a sampled sound engine and a synthesised sound engine. It will be up to the user to choose which to use, and the less popular will probably be removed from NetKar (or indeed merged into the better system, but thats not been mentioned by Stefano).

Where did you find out this information? It will be fine if you linked the source here... you know... just to not create false information!!!

All I've read is that NKP will use synthetic sounds, not samplers. The big argument, of course, is the fidelity to the simulation things, same of LFS. But, is easier to believe that is a cheaper way to implement sounds, do not taking the risk of a rights process.

I believe LFS sounds can be a lot better than today, even using synthetic sounds.

tristancliffe

31st December 2005, 19:55

If you read AutoSimSport (which I'm sure you do, as all sim-racing fans should [and I have nothing to do with it before anyone says 'plug']), then you'll have noticed the article on pages 7 - 9 of issue 11. On page 8, in the central column, you'll find the remark in question.

That'll teach you to question my all seeing eye, muhahahahahahahahah

P.S. That last bits a joke, in case anyone suffers a sense of humour failure.

tailing

1st January 2006, 01:38

Scavier means Scawen, Victor and Eric. It's not an official term, but one the community dreamt up.

Hmm, I always thought the devs must have came up with is as it's been on official skins and in-game banners since S1 at least.

Anyway I'm glad the devs have taken the approach they have with the sounds but no doubt there is a huge amount of improvement to be made and I'd hope it might come before S3.

Fetzo

2nd January 2006, 12:17

i think the lfs engines got a terrible sound.

:hidesbehi

SlamDunk

2nd January 2006, 12:51

But this thread is not about how it sounds but how the sound behaves.

mrodgers

2nd January 2006, 15:21

But this thread is not about how it sounds but how the sound behaves.
True. It's the way it behaves and it tells you exactly what is going on with the car. Even though it doesn't sound good to the ear, I'll take it as a tool to tell me what is going on with the car and with grip over wav files that change pitch depending on what the game says your tachometer is and what the pitch should be any day

Fetzo

3rd January 2006, 09:31

well i prefer a sound that sounds like a car, even if it is not as 'exact' as the lfs sound.

but well, i like playing quake with textures and lightning even if it's more difficult to see the enemys. it's just more pretty. i know that's noobtalk.

MyBoss

5th January 2006, 17:54

deggis

5th January 2006, 22:03

The way the engine sounds in lfs are produced, or whatever is great. Bit I miss something.

In the rFactor clip you could hear how the gravel and dirt was throwed from the weels and up in the body of the car. In LFS I feel there is almost only the engine sound. No sounds from within the car, only the engine.
Indeed. Lack of all kind of little sounds is one of the negative sides of LFS.

And I hate that loud ridiculous "crashing" sound. I use headphones with master volume set to nearly 100% and in major crashes my ears hurt.

Fetzo

6th January 2006, 08:28

oh yeah, that crashing sound is really annoying. crashing is annoying enough, but this noise terror in addition sometimes really drives me mad :P.

deggis

7th January 2006, 12:55

http://mbnet.fi/nakkitar/lfs/lfs_nakkisounds_test.avi

Incredible! :thumb: Scawen should hire Nakkitartsani to make new sound engine.

inCogNito

7th January 2006, 13:40

the rev limiter sounds great ;)

Blackout

7th January 2006, 13:48

I wonder if that guy filmed that himself or did someone record his normal driving session without telling the guy :scratchch

L(Oo)ney

7th January 2006, 14:55

http://mbnet.fi/nakkitar/lfs/lfs_nakkisounds_test.avi

ROFL.

Crazy frog has nothing on this guy. Best sound effects, EVER! :D

Bob Smith

7th January 2006, 15:43

Hehe. :D

Hyperactive

7th January 2006, 16:42

:thumb: :D :huepfenic

Insane...

FinnishFlash

7th January 2006, 17:48

I think this guy is retarded. :schwitz:

Huru-aito

7th January 2006, 18:04

ROFL.

Crazy frog has nothing on this guy. Best sound effects, EVER! :D

Funny you should say that... :nana:

EDIT: The car in the video sounded liked it was choking for some reason, especially turning left under the bridge. Also in the end it sounded like there was some terminal damage somewhere - maybe a new advanced version of LFS? :)

deggis

7th January 2006, 19:01

If I just had contacts with some record label company...

Don

7th January 2006, 19:26

another song by nakki :smileypul

SniperX

8th January 2006, 19:29

http://mbnet.fi/nakkitar/lfs/lfs_nakkisounds_test.avi

Incredible! :thumb: Scawen should hire Nakkitartsani to make new sound engine.
Haha, remindes me about the first clip "with sound of S2" (a clip of a FO8 travling past some slower cars with the "braaaaa-priii-prii-priiiiioooooooaaa" sound..
Thread: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=170584
Page: http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=170584&page=9
Poat: http://forum.rscnet.org/showpost.php?p=1956915&postcount=215

Hey, I managed to find a thread/post at RSC :)