Test Patch Y13 - East Asian Support [Archive]

Scawen

14th March 2008, 16:56

WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

Hello Racers.

Here is a new fully compatible test patch Y13.

It contains Chinese, Japanese and Korean Translations.
Various fixes including a South City hot lapping issue.
Anisotropic filtering is now supported.
Please read the list of changes below.

Changes in TEST PATCH Y13 :

Added support for anisotropic filtering in Game Options
Improved control of mip bias : 4 sliders in Game Options
Improved filter (16 bit / 32 bit / all) in Screen Options
Path edges in track selection screen now appear smooth
Improved lesson description blocks width and spacing
FIX : Multiplayer in-game text often appeared blurred
FIX : Unnecessary message "Could not get input context"
FIX : Double byte AI number plates in overtaking lesson

Known issues :

Russian and Slovenian flags appear to be radioactive
Dedicated host does not display double byte characters
Name of active Chinese input method is not shown in Vista

Changes from Y to Y12 :

Double byte character support :

Included Chinese, Japanese and Korean translations
Selectable fonts for these languages in Game Options
Input method editor support including candidate lists
IME automatically switched on and off in text entry dialog
Input language is shown when editing text (white if IME active)
Name of active Chinese input method is shown (but not in Vista)

Interface :

Faster text drawing system improves frame rate
Separate text entry field for AI number plates
Welcome screen now has three columns of languages
Added flags beside names of translations in Game Options
Czech / Japanese / Simplified Chinese lesson translations
Network debug messages are no longer sent in InSim packets
Text input box is now drawn above user messages so easier to type
Line breaks in help text and lesson text now depend on actual width
New game setup screen info message "X removed Y from the start grid"
FIX : Low ASCII characters can no longer be read from text files
FIX : Corrupted text in top left corner after changing language
FIX : Corrupted "finished" at top right after changing language

Multiplayer :

New command /ndebug=no/yes to switch off/on network debug
Dedicated host and network debug show connecting guest IP
FIX : Rapid /ai NAME command resulted in AI with same name
FIX : Rapid /ai command could exceed number of cars allowed
FIX : Joining a host with same name AI resulted in Join OOS
FIX : Skin name buffer overflow exploit

Fixes :

FIX : Replay could open reversed configuration in DEMO
FIX : Wall riding was possible on soft walls at South City
FIX : Could select invalid configuration and weather in cfg.txt
FIX : Admin could crash dedicated host by mistake with some commands

DOWNLOAD :

PATCH Y13 (Version Y must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_Y_TO_Y13.exe (1.5 MB)

DEDICATED HOST (for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Y13.zip

KNOWN ISSUES :

Russian and Slovenian flags appear to be radioactive
Dedicated host does not display double byte characters
Name of active Chinese input method is not shown in Vista
In game text can sometimes appear blurred (not reproducable)

Windows XP : East Asian Language Support / Font Installation

LFS does not support double byte characters with Windows 98 / ME. Windows XP and Vista should work well but you may need to install fonts.

If you have Windows XP and currently cannot see the East Asian translations, here's how to set up your computer so it works.
See the attachment - in Control Panel click on "Regional and Language Options" then under the "Languages" tab select "Install files for East Asian Languages".
Windows will probably ask you to get your XP CD and the fonts will be installed from it.

This is important even if you do not use Chinese, Japanese or Korean translations so you can see East Asian text and player names correctly when you are online.

SpikeyMarcoD

14th March 2008, 16:58

Lovely fiddeling with more gfx settings :P

RacerAsh3

14th March 2008, 17:03

Well done

AndroidXP

14th March 2008, 17:05

Very nice, no more shimmering, even without clamp. Though right now the AF setting does nothing, but that might be because of my drivers - I'll try some more.

Flame CZE

14th March 2008, 17:06

Nice
i have a question

Will be the untranslated texts translated at the end of Y patch (patch Z) or we can translate them now and you will update them in next test patch?

Scawen

14th March 2008, 17:07

The official translators will translate them using the online system when I send an email. Then the missing text will be included in the next test patch.

Do let me know if there are any problems / anything unclear with the new text on the Graphics Options screen or the new help text entries. I'll wait a little before sending the email alert, just to make sure the text is ok before they start translating it.

zurdospeed

14th March 2008, 17:12

just a quick one: in the help text for "car & helmet skins" when you read "This allows quck loading..."

Scawen

14th March 2008, 17:13

Thanks, in fact I already corrected that and re-uploaded the patch.

AndroidXP

14th March 2008, 17:35

Okay, I can't get the AF setting to do anything, but I can force it with the driver anyway (and yes, I made sure both global and LFS-profile AF settings were set to "Application Controlled"). :shrug:

Flame CZE

14th March 2008, 17:39

When I am on a track (having 8x texture filtering/AF and all mip bias to 0.0) and then I minimize LFS and maximize it, mip bias seems to be set on low value (when you have look at the track) but in graphics options it looks all the same.

Compare those two pictures:
Before minimizing
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7457/45589566tk8.jpg
minimized and then maximized LFS
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/933/13803683xl2.jpg

And when i change Mip Bias value, it doesnt take effect instantly.

edit: oh sorry IT WORKS NOW FINE

dev

14th March 2008, 17:42

Very nice work Scawen, really it is :) But a few more graphical options would be very nice :D I like tweaking stuff :P

dawesdust_12

14th March 2008, 17:43

Beautiful Scawen, from what I can see over remote desktop, it looks a lot better than before. Will give it a proper go at home, but looks like an improvement still :)

Scawen

14th March 2008, 17:46

Okay, I can't get the AF setting to do anything, but I can force it with the driver anyway (and yes, I made sure both global and LFS-profile AF settings were set to "Application Controlled"). :shrug:Well that is strange, it definitely works on my ATI Radeon 9800. Which card do you have?

When I am on a track (having 8x texture filtering/AF and all mip bias to 0.0) and then I minimize LFS and maximize it, mip bias seems to be set on low value (when you have look at the track) but in graphics options it looks all the same.

Compare those two pictures:
Before minimizing
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7457/45589566tk8.jpg
minimized and then maximized LFS
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/933/13803683xl2.jpg

And when i change Mip Bias value, it doesnt take effect instantly.

edit: oh sorry IT WORKS NOW FINEAre you sure it's all ok now? Please keep an eye on that in case you find a way to reproduce that again...

Flame CZE

14th March 2008, 17:51

Are you sure it's all ok now? Please keep an eye on that in case you find a way to reproduce that again...
Sorry my fault, it works now :thumb:

AndroidXP

14th March 2008, 17:54

A Nvidia 6600 GT, ForceWare 94.24 (so no customized drivers that automatically force certain settings "to improve quality", also finally a set of drivers where the profile management seems to work without screwing everything up all the time). It really might just be my system; the ingame AA/AF settings doing nothing is not exactly something new for me.

herki

14th March 2008, 18:16

Known issues :

Russian and Slovenian flags appear to be radioactive

That made me smile :tilt:

Töki (HUN)

14th March 2008, 18:16

Thanks! :thumb:

Test Driver

14th March 2008, 18:52

Okay, I can't get the AF setting to do anything, but I can force it with the driver anyway (and yes, I made sure both global and LFS-profile AF settings were set to "Application Controlled"). :shrug:

I got the same problem, changing the new AF settings appears to have no effect at all. I'm using a Nvidia GPU with the latest driver (169.21).

Flame CZE

14th March 2008, 19:19

Oh no I still have a problem with mipmapping. So I have set all mipmap bias to 0.0 and texture filtering 16x. But when i minimize LFS (alt+tab) and then maximize it, mipmapping seems to be not applied correctly. Watch the video below (in the video you can see a short pause witch a black screen - its between minimizing and maximizing LFS, Fraps can't capture Windows, only games). I hope you understand me.

http://www.vt-devils.com/Film.zip

Andrei221

14th March 2008, 19:34

Nice patch , can Anti Aliasing feature be implemented too?

screama

14th March 2008, 20:12

Nice patch , can Anti Aliasing feature be implemented too?
ooooh that would be :banana_ra

nesrulz

14th March 2008, 20:53

GO GO GO AA! :nod:

Shotglass

14th March 2008, 21:01

the aniso doesnt work on my 78gt either
in fact switching from "none" to anything other than trilinear (1x) keep the filtering set to bilinear

aroX123

14th March 2008, 21:06

Scawen i get error when i extract.

screama

14th March 2008, 22:12

Scawen i get error when i extract.
redownload it ;)

Tisza

14th March 2008, 22:42

Keep up the good work Scawen! I havent tried it yet, but i will thats for sure! :)

Takumi_lfs

14th March 2008, 22:44

No bug's found yet. Thanks Scawen!

Altough I really can't see difference with AF and these mip-thingy's.

nesrulz

14th March 2008, 23:20

Texture filtering / AF: 2x, 4x, 8x or 16x and then window mod - full screen / full screen - window mod with Shift+F4.

Mip bias (0.0 is same as -1.5) interface / text.
Always is -1.5...

EDIT1: Hmm, all Mip sliders have this problem...

EDIT2: "Reset" with Texture filtering / AF: none or 1x.

eblise

15th March 2008, 06:35

Good news
I will test, thanks

PLAYLIFE

15th March 2008, 06:37

There appears to be two Chech translations. One with a flag and one down below with a question mark flag...

Mrwei

15th March 2008, 07:15

thanks so much.....

so wonderful.......:):)

Scawen

15th March 2008, 08:43

the aniso doesnt work on my 78gt either
in fact switching from "none" to anything other than trilinear (1x) keep the filtering set to bilinearOK - so it doesn't work on AndroidXP, Test Driver or Shotglass's computers. Does the Anisotropic filtering work on any NVidia cards at all?

Any by the way how many options are there on NVidia? Does it give you the full range - up to 16x?

Texture filtering / AF: 2x, 4x, 8x or 16x and then window mod - full screen / full screen - window mod with Shift+F4.

Mip bias (0.0 is same as -1.5) interface / text.
Always is -1.5...

EDIT1: Hmm, all Mip sliders have this problem...

EDIT2: "Reset" with Texture filtering / AF: none or 1x.Thanks for this description. I have an idea how this bug may be happening...

There appears to be two Chech translations. One with a flag and one down below with a question mark flag...You should delete the extra one in your data\language folder. I guess the extra one is called Cestina.txt. The correct one is named Czech.txt.

word.

15th March 2008, 09:04

It seems AF isn't working on any nvidia cards. In game AF setting isn't working here:

Card: Nvidia 6600GT
Drivers: 174.20

I get the same bug as nesrulz too. With the in-game AF setting on anywhere between 2x and 16x, and with all the mip biases set to 0: press Shift+F4 and then all mip bias settings become negative. Select AF of 0x or 1x and it fixes itself.

AndroidXP

15th March 2008, 09:08

Any by the way how many options are there on NVidia? Does it give you the full range - up to 16x?Yes, the full range from 2x - 16x. Forcing it by the driver works, I can see definite changes on the mip-test-texture.

herki

15th March 2008, 09:14

But when i minimize LFS (alt+tab) and then maximize it, mipmapping seems to be not applied correctly.

Isn't alt+tab one of the most evil things you can do to fullscreen applications? I heard Windows doesn't work correctly with it.

word.

15th March 2008, 09:16

Isn't alt+tab one of the most evil things you can do to fullscreen applications? I heard Windows doesn't work correctly with it.
Same thing happens with Shift+F4

dev

15th March 2008, 09:51

nVidia 7600GT here, driver version 169.25, running Windows Vista 32-bit... AF works perfectly... All options from "None" to "16x" are available, and I can see noticeable improvements between them...

EDIT: I don't even get that error when using shift + F4 :shrug:

Scawen

15th March 2008, 10:01

I got the same problem, changing the new AF settings appears to have no effect at all. I'm using a Nvidia GPU with the latest driver (169.21).

nVidia 7600GT here, driver version 169.25, running Windows Vista 32-bit... AF works perfectly... All options from "None" to "16x" are available, and I can see noticeable improvements between them...

EDIT: I don't even get that error when using shift + F4 :shrug:

Interesting, your driver versions are so close but Test Driver's doesn't work and dev's does work.

Not seeing a pattern yet... keep the results coming!

NVidia users please answer these questions :

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x)
- What graphics card?
- What driver version?

LFSn00b

15th March 2008, 10:06

They might have AF on already in their nVidia CP?
Just a thought, please slap me if im wrong.

Working fine here with ATi card and loving it :)

dev

15th March 2008, 10:15

2 LFSn00b: All settings in my driver are set to "Application controlled"...

2 Scawen: I'm uploading screenshots as I'm typing this, so you can see the difference. I'll also try upgrading my drivers to a newer version to see if it makes any changes...
EDIT: Downloading BETA version 169.44...

EDIT2: Here they are, shift + F4 makes absolutely no difference...
None (http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2251/lfs00000007kp9.jpg), 1x (http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/50/lfs00000008is6.jpg), 2x (http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/7326/lfs00000009cb3.jpg), 4x (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7661/lfs00000010ud0.jpg), 8x (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/164/lfs00000011uu6.jpg), 16x (http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7080/lfs00000012qj2.jpg)
Sorry for large images, but I didn't want to lose any detail...

Not Sure

15th March 2008, 10:25

GeForce 6600GT
Driver version 169.21

Alt-tab messes up the mip filtering, everything becomes very grainy / sparkly. The same thing happens when changing resolution. ??Shift-F4 doesn't do it unless I deactivate the window. ??
I can get it to look like I originally set it by selecting None, 1X or 2X. 4X, 8X or 16X do nothing.

Could this have something to do with lfs losing focus?

Maybe besides the point, but I noticed with earlier versions of LFS that antialiasing did not work unless i switched resolutions back and forth.

edit: attached screenshots: when i alt-tabbed with the settings in the first shot, nothing changed. the last two shots show a "before and after" shots. (yes i made everything as blurry as possible to emphasize the change)

nesrulz

15th March 2008, 10:27

NVidia users please answer these questions :

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x)
- What graphics card?
- What driver version?

Yes.

AA and AF settings in my driver are set to "Application-controlled"...

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7177/53122468fd8.png

dawesdust_12

15th March 2008, 10:29

Flame CZE

15th March 2008, 10:37

There appears to be two Chech translations. One with a flag and one down below with a question mark flag...

i think you must delete all language files and re-download them form new patch

dev

15th March 2008, 10:38

Dev - I'm looking at that, and to be honest, it doesn't even look like it changes from having no AF. For example, an image from my LFS (ATi card) with AF: http://dustindaw.es/wygiuxx.png
without: http://dustindaw.es/rawr.png

NOTE: Image done with MipBias' of -1.0/-1.0/0.0/0.0 for comparison sake.
My screenshots are made with default mp bias... Just look at the white line on the side of the road, you can see the difference :)

EDIT: Using 169.44 beta now... still no problems...

dawesdust_12

15th March 2008, 10:40

Ok, because I'm looking, and I can see so light changes, compared to the drastic change made by AF on mine. Also, reading the MIP bias info-texts might explain a bit better.

Vagner

15th March 2008, 10:43

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x)
Yes
- What graphics card?
nVidia FX5500
- What driver version?
169.12 (Linux)

Flame CZE

15th March 2008, 10:49

My grapgic card is nvidia GeForce 7300 GS and driver is DirectX 9.0 (I dont know if it's what you want)

AF works in LFS but as I said after shift+f4 or alt+tab i must set it to none and then to my option (8x or 16x).

edit: screenshot of graphics card info
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3541/nvidiacp8.jpg

aimbottle

15th March 2008, 11:02

NVidia users please answer these questions :

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x)
- What graphics card?
- What driver version?

-AF works fine for me. I see definite changes between the different settings.
-NVidia Geforce 8800 GTS (640MB Memory)
-169.44 BETA Forceware

Edit: shift-F4 doesn't hurt anything. :)

AndroidXP

15th March 2008, 11:17

Here a little illustration on what forced AF level does for me, note how AF in LFS is always at 16x. When I turn AF level to "Application Controlled" the LFS setting changes nothing, though it does apply some sort of filtering.

Click (http://members.chello.at/fam-jelinek/christian/AF/)

screama

15th March 2008, 11:35

Here are my AF-Tests! :scratchch

Every Screenshot was made with 0.0 MipBias and 100% Details but no AntiAliasing! No AF/AA-Settings are forced by the driver!

- Does AF work in LFS?
Hell yeah! :evil: Look at the screeeens!!

- What graphics card?
Zotac nVidia 8800GTX 768mb

- What driver version?
nVidia Forceware 169.28 (Vista SP1, 64bit, BETA)

- Does AF still work after Shift+F4/Alt+Tab?
Yes!

mxpxun

15th March 2008, 11:41

nice, but i would like to see anti aliasing options too:):):):):thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thu mb::thumb::thumb:

Glenn67

15th March 2008, 11:47

I have nvidia 6600 GT

All the settings in game (mip bias and AF) seem to have a negative effect or no effect on image quality. When I alt tab and return to full screen I get grainy look also. Picture looks best with 0 mip bias and AF set to none :x

I have set display driver to application controlled

diver version is 6.14.11.6921

Oh and I've always had issues with mirrors and dials being corrupted when alt tabing in and out of LFS so thats not new

mxpxun

15th March 2008, 11:51

ohh and can you please translate OPTIONS/DISPLAY/INTERFACE menu?
no efect on none 1x 2x 4x 8x AF GF fx5200 driver version 6.14.11.6375

ksa_land

15th March 2008, 12:00

Hi,

I have a Nvidia card too, and it seems it doesn't work.

AF doesn't work.
ASUS 6600GT eXtreme, 128MB.
I'm using an older driver (see attachment)
Will try a new driver maybe today evening or tomorrow.

AF through nHancer works fine.
Hope this helps.

side note:
P.S. AA through nHancer works fine too, but if I do Shift+F4 twice most time it doesn't work again. After more Shift+F4 it works again.

zurdospeed

15th March 2008, 12:00

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x)
- What graphics card?
- What driver version?

- YES
- nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra (AF to aplication controlled)
- driver version 6.14.11.6371 (old I know)
- SHIFT+F4 or just exiting LFS and coming in again = AF messed up (I just have to press again 1x then 16x to AF to work again)

bbman

15th March 2008, 12:26

Dev - I'm looking at that, and to be honest, it doesn't even look like it changes from having no AF. For example, an image from my LFS (ATi card) with AF: http://dustindaw.es/wygiuxx.png
without: http://dustindaw.es/rawr.png

NOTE: Image done with MipBias' of -1.0/-1.0/0.0/0.0 for comparison sake.

You've set your mipmap detail level low... If you crank it up (via Catalyst), the differences will become less noticeable (and it'll look better by default)...

AF works for me (ATI)... The most noticeable difference for me is going from trilinear filtering to AF... I can't really distinguish differences between 8x and 16x AF except for a little less blur in the far distance...

detail

15th March 2008, 12:29

AF works fine for me.

nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (256 MB), WinXP 64, driver version 6.14.11.6375 (04.10.2007)

I've noticed that if mip bias is close to 0, some small details dissapear, like leaves and fences. High mip bias causes much pixel blinking. I'm curios, what level of settings is the best between these.

Shift+F4 and back removes AF.

d3m0n

15th March 2008, 13:54

Hi there,

Actually it seems as it doesn't work for me. Or I'm too blind to see a diffrence.

This is with AF 0
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf0cq1.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf0cq1.jpg

AF 1
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf1id6.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf1id6.jpg

AF 2
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf2fv5.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf2fv5.jpg

AF 4
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf4vt5.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf4vt5.jpg

AF 8
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf8zt4.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf8zt4.jpg

AF 16
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf16iv3.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf16iv3.jpg

All done with these settings... Maybe this is why I see no diffrence?
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf16settingsds4.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf16settingsds4.jpg

These are my drivers I'm runing on my Vista 32bit version. (No SP1 installed yet)
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nvidiadriversig1.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nvidiadriversig1.jpg

Sorry it is german. But I guess you'll understand it anyways...

If there is anything else I can help with just give me a yell...

Regards

Jonas

detail

15th March 2008, 14:16

Hi there,
Actually it seems as it doesn't work for me. Or I'm too blind to see a diffrence.
It doesn't work, there is really no difference. Maybe you've turned off AF in nVidia CP?

[d9]

15th March 2008, 14:30

hi, i noticed other thing - with mouse steer i feel little delay in control (similar as with analogue steer smooth set to high values), increases with higher AF level i think (fps not affected, i run at 50fps limitter). anyone can reproduce this, maybe also with wheel steer?

d3m0n

15th March 2008, 14:53

No its setup in the Nvidia drivers that "Application may choose".

See yourself:

http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nvidiadrivers2if0.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nvidiadrivers2if0.jpg

Regards

Jonas

Test Driver

15th March 2008, 14:56

nVidia 7600GT here, driver version 169.25, running Windows Vista 32-bit... AF works perfectly... :shrug:

I'm using Windows XP 32 bit, it could be OS related.

My Config:
GPU: Geforce 8800 GTS
Driver: 169.21

I noticed that there is a tiny change in the textures when i switch between AF=off and one of the AF=on settings:

In this pictures it is visible on the fence

http://www.picupload.net/t-8c1330beae923bf6b09ad976832bba44.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-8c1330beae923bf6b09ad976832bba44-jpg.php)

screama

15th March 2008, 14:57

In this pictures it is visible on the fence

http://www.picupload.net/t-8c1330beae923bf6b09ad976832bba44.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-8c1330beae923bf6b09ad976832bba44-jpg.php)

naaa not really! It's to small!:shrug:

Test Driver

15th March 2008, 15:07

It's a thumbnail of the picture, you should be able to enlarge it by clicking on it

(If not then this link should do it: http://www.picupload.net/s-8c1330beae923bf6b09ad976832bba44-jpg.php)

balee

15th March 2008, 15:58

No effects for me either.
nVidia 7600 GT AGP8X 256Mb
169.28_forceware_winxp_32bit_international_beta

Scawen

15th March 2008, 16:23

Hi there,

Actually it seems as it doesn't work for me. Or I'm too blind to see a diffrence.

...

All done with these settings... Maybe this is why I see no diffrence?
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf16settingsds4.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lfsaf16settingsds4.jpg

These are my drivers I'm runing on my Vista 32bit version. (No SP1 installed yet)
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nvidiadriversig1.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nvidiadriversig1.jpg

Sorry it is german. But I guess you'll understand it anyways...

If there is anything else I can help with just give me a yell...

Regards

JonasWell... you are using the default mip bias settings. That definitely can make the effect of AF much less noticeable. Because the very negative default mip settings are trying to solve the blurring problem in the old way, without using AF.

To test if AF is working, it's best to move the mip bias sliders up to zero. Then without AF you will see a lot of blurring on the ground, not very far in front of you. AF 2x, 4x, 8x should reduce this road blurring further and further into the distance.

Scawen

15th March 2008, 16:31

Here are my AF-Tests! :scratchch

Every Screenshot was made with 0.0 MipBias and 100% Details but no AntiAliasing! No AF/AA-Settings are forced by the driver!I'm quoting screama here because this is correct - the best way to see the effect of AF.

Mip sliders up to zero. No AA. No AF / AA driver forced settings.

---

It's possible this may be the explanation for some people who couldn't see the effect - maybe their mip sliders were too negative.

Thanks for the reports, I see that this works for a lot (maybe most) NVidia users.

Also there is a definite LFS bug involving SHIFT+F4 etc.

zeromussov

15th March 2008, 16:40

Yep, about that SHIFT+F4 bug. I always had the same problem with ATI Catalyst center, so when I 're-opened' LFS there was no AF/AA etc.

dev

15th March 2008, 17:00

Yep, about that SHIFT+F4 bug. I always had the same problem with ATI Catalyst center, so when I 're-opened' LFS there was no AF/AA etc.
I had the same problem with nVidia control panel... After alt+tab or shift+f4 there would be no more forced AA or AF... AF is working now, but AA still isn't...

balee

15th March 2008, 17:10

It seems to work, but I just don't understand.

I move all the sliders to 0, everything is sharp already, without turning on AF. I set my drivers to 'Let 3D application define'.

Pictures explain.

balee

15th March 2008, 17:17

I don't seem to get blurry picture like this (http://www.lfsforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=51483&d=1205583982), whatever I do.

Test Driver

15th March 2008, 17:24

I got it working somehow, the AF options in LFS now show full effect. But i dont exactly know why.

The only thing i did was to play around with the AF settings in the Nvidia driver:

First I forced 16x AF in the Live For Speed profile (just like i had it before Y13 came out).

Then i set AF to "Application Controlled" in the Live For Speed Profile. Not "(Global Setting) Application Controlled", just "Appilcation Controlled", so it appears in bold letters.

With this settings i started LFS again, and the ingame AF options worked correctly.

detail

15th March 2008, 17:29

;739352']hi, i noticed other thing - with mouse steer i feel little delay in control (similar as with analogue steer smooth set to high values), increases with higher AF level i think (fps not affected, i run at 50fps limitter). anyone can reproduce this, maybe also with wheel steer?
I also drive with mouse and after Y13 felt the same. But looks like it was because the steering non-linearity had changed from 0.3 to 0.8 after I updated to Y13.

So far, on my computer AF turns off in LFS when I
- alt-tab
- change resolution
- switch to windowed mode
Every time I have to go to options, turn AF off and then turn it back on. Even forcing AF in NVidia CP doesn't resolve this problem.

BTW, I used AF through nVidia settings before, but now when it works natively, graphics looks MUUUUCH smoother.

bbman

15th March 2008, 17:53

It seems to work, but I just don't understand.

I move all the sliders to 0, everything is sharp already, without turning on AF. I set my drivers to 'Let 3D application define'.

Pictures explain.

Maybe something like Test driver? Check your profiles?

detail

15th March 2008, 17:56

BTW, now when the ground objects looks better, the sky is notably low-res.

d3m0n

15th March 2008, 18:07

Well... you are using the default mip bias settings. That definitely can make the effect of AF much less noticeable. Because the very negative default mip settings are trying to solve the blurring problem in the old way, without using AF.

To test if AF is working, it's best to move the mip bias sliders up to zero. Then without AF you will see a lot of blurring on the ground, not very far in front of you. AF 2x, 4x, 8x should reduce this road blurring further and further into the distance.

Was my fault. I have had already a profile on the Nvidia CP. Couldn't remember this since it's already a bit older :)

Sorry again...

Regards

Jonas

balee

15th March 2008, 18:18

...I used AF through nVidia settings before, but now when it works natively, graphics looks MUUUUCH smoother.

Yes. Thats why we are praying for built in AA. :nod:

Shotglass

15th March 2008, 18:37

OK this is behavious is starting to become really confusing.
Right now AF works with the LFS settings, but if i start with 16x enabeled i get bilinear filtering pushed back a little to the af distance. If i change the setting to anything lower the mip levels move closer to the camera but stay bilinear. At 1x is suddenly turns to trilinear filtered mip levels and goging higher moves the levels away a little (as intended) but they stay trilinear.
Goning back to none and then switching to anything higher than 1x keeps the mip levels bilinear but applies AF by pushing the mip levels away

ksa_land

15th March 2008, 20:20

Hi,

I have a Nvidia card too, and it seems it doesn't work.

AF doesn't work.
ASUS 6600GT eXtreme, 128MB.
I'm using an older driver (see attachment)
Will try a new driver maybe today evening or tomorrow.

[...]

I think I have to correct myself. I testet it again and ... AF works!
Sorry for the misinformation.

CobraDrifter

15th March 2008, 20:56

Does it's normal that the AF don't have any effect on the car?

Waffenaffe

15th March 2008, 21:09

Hmm,wasnt there a thing,that Nvidia drivers of the newest generaton have problems with AA/AF?
When I became my XFX 8600GTS 512mb,there worked all fine,but suddenly not.
Ive readed a bit in Internet,that the newest N-v drivers have problems..

Ah,AF wont work.

dawesdust_12

15th March 2008, 21:30

Does it's normal that the AF don't have any effect on the car?

Yes, because the maps are all so close to you, that it doesn't need to apply any filtering to them to make distant maps look smoother.

Glenn67

15th March 2008, 23:58

I've got the AF settings in game to work now, it seems that the nvidia control panel has a mind of its own :shrug:
It is supossed to have global settings which are application controlled, user difined or auto set by preference to quality/performance. These settings don't seem to work. I have to set it to user difined and setup a profile for LFS to get it to function properly. Once I've done that snd specifically enforce each setting then its fine. Me thinks the nvidia drivers a pretty crappy.

word.

16th March 2008, 06:32

It's definitly not a problem with the nvidia control panel.

The AF setting in LFS just doesn't work even when the nvidia control panel is set to application controlled, for both global and specific LFS game profiles
Forcing AF from the nvidia control panel works fine.

In the first picture attached 16x AF is selected in LFS, but it just doesn't have any effect (all mip bias are set to 0 in LFS). As you can see the AF is definitly set to application controlled in the Nvidia control panel. I don't have problems with the control panel in any other game.

The second picture shows 16x AF forced from the Nvidia control panel, how it should look.

NikLaw

16th March 2008, 09:11

Don´t get me wrong, but what´s all the mess about ingame AF settings? I can´t see any differences between AF forced by the driver or set ingame.

hardcoreobscure

16th March 2008, 09:24

Don´t get me wrong, but what´s all the mess about ingame AF settings? I can´t see any differences between AF forced by the driver or set ingame.

It is nice to have individual options within the game. Messing about with different settings in the control panel while alt-tabbing to test performance is something I try and avoid personally.

Just had a test myself, and seems to be working fine.

512Mb g92 8800 GTS (7.15.0011.6925)
Vista x64

Heres the comparison shot (the road texture is the most noticeable improvement)
http://xs225.xs.to/xs225/08110/lfs_compare_af105.jpg

If you think it could be OS related, I have a backup install of x86 XP which I will try in a bit

Waffenaffe

16th March 2008, 10:26

Ive Updated to newest beta drivers,169,44
works now very fine.

screama

16th March 2008, 11:24

Another thing i discovered on my PC (again: everything works fine!)

2 EventIDs when i play LFS...

EventID 9010:
A request to disable the Desktop Window Manager was made by process (LFS.exe).

EventID 9013:
The Desktop Window Manager was unable to start because composition was disabled by a running application.

I don't know if this is related to the new testpatch, but it makes no difference in performance or overall behavior of my PC.

Why is LFS trying to disable the DWM?

bbman

16th March 2008, 12:12

AndroidXP

16th March 2008, 12:27

Not for me, at least.

Scawen

16th March 2008, 13:25

Why is LFS trying to disable the DWM?No idea. I have never even heard of the desktop window manager.

I have not done such a thing intentionally. Sometimes LFS is "blamed" for these things but actually it could be a DLL started by LFS (e.g. d3d8.dll). Can you get any more information about the origin of the message?

STROBE

16th March 2008, 13:46

Something strange going on with my nVidia drivers/control panel (who ya gonna call?).

It's an 8800GT with Forceware 169.21. Individual game profiles have never worked for me - if I choose "use the advanced 3D image settings" and create/modify profiles for games, it gets completely ignored. The same happened with my old GeForce 5900 and a much older Forceware.

So anyway, I set it back to "let the 3D application decide" which works fine for games that have their own AA/AF settings (which is to say, most of them except LFS).

I've just tried the test patch and found that AA and AF were still most definitely on! I had a profile set for LFS forcing AA and AF, which was obviously still being used even though I'd told it to globally allow the application to take control.

So now with AA and AF definitely application-controlled at a driver level, LFS' AF control doesn't seem to be doing anything for me. There's a subtle change in the foliage when switching AF between "off" and 16× (no AF seems to draw more/denser foliage) but absolutely no discernable difference in tarmac textures, white lines or barriers receding into the distance, etc.

Scawen

16th March 2008, 13:56

Did you move the mip bias sliders up to zero? You won't see much if any effect of AF on the road if the mip sliders are at their default settings.

Zero mip bias allows the maximum amount of blurring that AF's purpose is to correct.

St4Lk3R

16th March 2008, 14:25

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x) YES
- What graphics card? XFX GeForce 8600 XXX (GeForce 8600GT Chipset)
- What driver version? Driver Date: 09.01.2008; Driver Version: 7.15.11.6932 <-- last 4 numbers = Nvidia Driver base version

STROBE

16th March 2008, 14:36

dawesdust_12

16th March 2008, 16:44

No idea. I have never even heard of the desktop window manager.

I have not done such a thing intentionally. Sometimes LFS is "blamed" for these things but actually it could be a DLL started by LFS (e.g. d3d8.dll). Can you get any more information about the origin of the message?

Scawen, I don't think it's your fault. The DWM.exe process in Vista is responsible for all the fun Aero effects, and when a 3D application starts (even non-fullscreen ones, such as 3dsMax), it throws itself back into Basic mode until all offending processes are ended, where it then restarts itself into Aero.
A little aside, the only reason I DON'T use Aero is because when Alt+tabbing to and fro in LFS, it takes about 3X longer than without it. No FPS difference, but it's just annoying.

screama

16th March 2008, 18:34

Scawen, I don't think it's your fault. The DWM.exe process in Vista is responsible for all the fun Aero effects, and when a 3D application starts (even non-fullscreen ones, such as 3dsMax), it throws itself back into Basic mode until all offending processes are ended, where it then restarts itself into Aero.
A little aside, the only reason I DON'T use Aero is because when Alt+tabbing to and fro in LFS, it takes about 3X longer than without it. No FPS difference, but it's just annoying.

LFS is the only "offending" process on my PC :scratchch

word.

17th March 2008, 08:19

if I choose "use the advanced 3D image settings" and create/modify profiles for games, it gets completely ignored.
Forcing AA from the control panel is broken in all drivers after 169.13 and before 171.xx. This is common knowledge on guru3d forums.
That's why I'm using 174.20

Hoshimodo

17th March 2008, 09:51

- Does AF work in LFS? (meaning, texture filtering 2x, 4x, 8x is different (better) than none or 1x) --> Yes
- What graphics card? --> Xpertvision 7600GT/AGP
- What driver version? --> WinXP WHQL Forceware 94.24

Jabbapl

17th March 2008, 13:04

Added support for anisotropic filtering in Game Options

I like that ! THX Scawen!

SladiVadi

17th March 2008, 13:21

It works for me and looks better than before. I always used MIP bias clamp and MIP bias=0 in LfS (now using MIP=0 too).
I use WinXP32bit, 8600GT and 171.16 drivers. The global option is to force 16xAF and the LfS profile says app controlled. Also negative-MIP-bias is allowed.

aroX123

17th March 2008, 18:35

I Removed it to here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=40468

_--NZ--_[HUN]

17th March 2008, 21:12

Bringing up the Ai again:tilt:
...

This is a compatible patch to support East Asian languages and brings ingame AF options, so I recommend you to list these AI bugs here (http://www.lfsforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=10).

yaper

17th March 2008, 21:41

During the check of my translations of help files I found bug which is causing LFS to crash.

Steps to reproduce:
Click one of the buttons with question mark. Staying at help screen try to reload translation (SHIFT+F5).

blackbird04217

17th March 2008, 21:53

I don't have any bugs or anything since I am actually not following this specific test patch (yet anyways), although I was wondering if Scawen could tell me the effects multibyte character sets are going to have on the InSim protocol. Will there be a way to accept or deny multibyte vs single byte characters? I would be willing to test this interface in some of the projects I have started, if you are planning on implementing it of course.

dev

17th March 2008, 21:58

mcgas001

17th March 2008, 22:03

blackbird04217: I think insim already works with these characters? There was a picture somewhere of a guy testing LFS Buttons and they had chinese characters in them. I could be wrong?

blackbird04217

18th March 2008, 00:34

I haven't downloaded the new patch - maybe I should start there although I haven't... Are you sure its UNICODE / multi-byte and not just the special ascii codes?

mcgas001

18th March 2008, 00:41

I haven't downloaded the new patch - maybe I should start there although I haven't... Are you sure its UNICODE / multi-byte and not just the special ascii codes?

Have a look at the pics in this post: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=704650#post704650

blackbird04217

18th March 2008, 01:04

Very nice, downloading test patch now so I can try myself soonish...

yaper

18th March 2008, 08:00

I can't reproduce this...

Now I chcecked it, and I'm able to reproduce it only with my recent polish translation from the link below:
http://www.liveforspeed.net/lfs_translate/public_translation_viewer.php?action=2&lang=Polski
Maybe because other translations has not have the new help texts translated.

Scawen

18th March 2008, 13:47

Very nice, downloading test patch now so I can try myself soonish...LFS input and output uses the double byte code pages as described on this Microsoft reference page :

http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/reference/WinCP.mspx

In LFS text the code page switching is done with :

^H - Traditional Chinese
^S - Simplified Chinese
^J - Japanese
^K - Korean

Scawen

18th March 2008, 14:29

BTW, now when the ground objects looks better, the sky is notably low-res.Do you mean you can adjust the sky's resolution with one of the mip bias sliders?

If that is what you mean, I can't seem to reproduce that.

It shouldn't happen anyway, because the sky is loaded as only a single texture with no mipmaps.

blackbird04217

18th March 2008, 14:51

So then character counts are halved due to their size? Example: an ascii username is 24 characters and when using the other code pages it would only be 12 characters?

mythdat

18th March 2008, 15:54

Having some strange issues with the AF too, I believe it's the same issue that STROBE is having - despite having everything set at off or application controlled on the Nvidia control panel, everything still seems to be turned on. Here's some examples, hope they help.

GFX Card: Nvidia Geforce 6800 AGP
Driver: 169.21
Mip Bias sliders are all at zero, all options in the Nvidia control panel are at "application controlled" where available

I'm seeing some people here with blurry images, but I never get this, everything is always quite clear even with everything turned off

The images: the first one is with LFS's AF turned off. The second shows it with it on 1x, you can see a slight difference but nothing really major has changed, just small subtle changes. The third image shows it at 2x - here you can see that nothing has changed at all, it's exactly the same as at 1x. This also happens on all of the remaining higher settings, exactly the same.

Strangely, if I alt-tab or ctrl+f4, and then back again, I get image 4 - everything goes very sharp and grainy. This only happens on 2x AF and upwards - at 1x and off, it doesn't

No idea if this is an LFS issue or a driver issue, but anyway...