[Offspring] Chat during Round 3

[JO53PHS]

Complaint #1: Everyone who typed a message (apart from 'Telepit' & the Race Officials) I want to see have a 5-grid penalty. Anything else than a 5-grid pen & anyone who did chat & gets away with it would just be wrong & totally unfair on those who got penalized for it this round.

Complaint #2: Lap 5. After Marlbro made that sublime pass (hardest place to pass, door to door with no contact...that's how it's done! :thumb:), I had Hynnty to my right with Cpt. Slow on my left. So 3-wide heading down to the 1st proper turn.
Cpt. Slow must've knew Hyntty's position as he had to slow down initially to bring it to the left of me. With that in mind, knowing he had 2 cars to his right, he yet still turned right. Poor driving right there.
And the way he handled himself afterwards made it even worse! I can understand that he may of been panicking, but reversing, & facing the wrong way with no consideration for the others was pretty poor too....

That's all folks :)

1) I typed "mph?" to ask what a certain speed was in mph... I suppose I get a 5 place penalty :shrug:

2)Yes I drove crap and deserve to die :shrug:

[Technique]

The following drivers talked extensively during race:
Mathius
Mutt
daleksam
[TG] hammond
[TG] Captain Slow
nightmare

The following drivers talked after they received DNF and should receive stiffer penalties:
Mathius
daleksam
[TG] hammond
nightmare

The following drivers disconnected early:
Mutt

The following drivers talked minimally:
[OPC] ROB!
J Taylor

[Technique]

1) I typed "mph?" to ask what a certain speed was in mph... I suppose I get a 5 place penalty :shrug:

No.. actually you typed all of this:

captain slow: noo
captain slow: =(
captain slow: =)
captain slow: =(
captain slow: mph?
captain slow: yes YOU
captain slow: :-)
captain slow: im tryin
captain slow: lol
captain slow: :-)
captain slow: Sorry!
captain slow: T1 carnage
captain slow: cmon
captain slow: yay
captain slow: no
captain slow: how
captain slow: :-)

[dougie-lampkin]

The following drivers talked extensively during race:
Mathius
Mutt
daleksam
[TG] hammond
[TG] Captain Slow
nightmare

The following drivers talked after they received DNF and should receive stiffer penalties:
Mathius
daleksam
[TG] hammond
nightmare

The following drivers disconnected early:
Mutt

The following drivers talked minimally:
[OPC] ROB!
J Taylor

Exactly...I talked ONCE (wasn't even during the race) and was the ONLY one to receive a penalty...

So technically everyone else gets points taken off, or else I get extra points...really, that seems to only be fair...

[evilpimp]

wat did I say? I thought only thing I said was is chat aloud yet at the end of the raceO_O It couldnt have distracted anyone as the race was over and you said that the results were going to be taken from that point.

[evilpimp]

-_-

1. It couldnt have caused an incident.
2. Well I thought you did and I didnt see it seeing the number of chat there was.

[dekojester]

2. Well I thought you did and I didnt see it seeing the number of chat there was.

Bingo !

[evilpimp]

???

Exactly, when you see that theres millions of messages being sent and no one telling anyone to stop you start to think that theyre aloud to.

[dekojester]

???

Exactly, when you see that theres millions of messages being sent and no one telling anyone to stop you start to think that theyre aloud to.

Yes, but then you'll miss the fact that the race is still considered underway. Just because everyone is in parc ferme does not mean that it's over. At that point I am preparing final messages to the drivers, ensuring that everyone is in parc ferme, and taking screenshots of the finish order.

[evilpimp]

Oh and can I add this is my first ever penalty in LFSBC and I think that I should receive a warning.

I doupt you'll get a warning seeing as I didnt get any but got the 5 spot grid penalty for round 3 even though it was my first offence..
And also it wasnt much chat it was just for saying Bye and putting a smiley. I think that the penaltys for such things are a bit exagerated.. 5 spots for saying are we aloud to speak yet at the end of the race is kind of...

[DieKolkrabe]

Appealing my Penalty.
I didn't talk much AFAIK It was either to say sorry or something and when DNF at the end of the race I spoke and didnt realise we were not allowed to speak until Deko said no more speaking until everyones parked here or something and after that I said Oh,sorry.

If you have replays.. please tell me other things I spoke.. because My internet disconnected and I had no way of getting the replays, thanks.

Oh and can I add this is my first ever penalty in LFSBC and I think that I should receive a warning.

I know this is in the wrong place, but I've watched the replay and am helping him with the appeal.

If you penalise one driver, they should ALL be penalised for chatting. I know that several drivers were. But I ask you, was that all the drivers who talked? A no un-needed chat rule should be strict. You put it down as strict, but you seemed to let Singling Fred out is grossly unfair, it is almost akin to scapegoating him. Dalek, Mutt, Hammond and Mathis talked extensive during the race, I feel they should recieve some sort of penalty in accordance with the rules

Ok, so the rules say 'No chatting until the race is declared over.' But, in Fred's defence, he wasn't on the server due to Internet problems, and it was hard to see when the race was declared over, due to all the (un-needed and illegal) chat messages. Could an RCM possibly be used in future?

Also,evilpimp. That is out of order, Why should you and Fred be penalised for a mistake, when people talked all-race long?

/me leaves it there

DK

[Fredthebest]

I know this is in the wrong place, but I've watched the replay and am helping him with the appeal.

If you penalise one driver, they should ALL be penalised for chatting. I know that several drivers were. But I ask you, was that all the drivers who talked? A no un-needed chat rule should be strict. You put it down as strict, but you seemed to let Singling Fred out is grossly unfair, it is almost akin to scapegoating him.Ok, so the rules say 'No chatting until the race is declared over.' But, in Fred's defence, he wasn't on the server due to Internet problems.

Also,evilpimp. That is out of order, Why should you and Fred be penalised for a mistake, when people talked all-race long?

/me leaves it there

DK
I was on the race until lap 9 when my internet disconnected and I reconnected somewhere around the middle of lap 10 and it finished on lap 11 I think and when almost nearly all cars were in the pitlane, except around 3 No-one had said No talking until the race had ended until Deko said it and there was actually alot of people talking at the end in the pitlane and I didnt see deko saying anything about race ended or anything, so Idk.

[evilpimp]

What im saying is that after the race I saw everyone was chatting and no one was telling them to stop. So I thought that deko said that it was aloud and I didnt see him say it so seeing as everyone was chatting I just asked if chatting was aloud.

Its common sense that when you see that no ones asking for them to stop chatting you think its aloud.

I said Is chatting aloud, he said No. I stoped. It's THE ONLY THING I said. 1 line to know if its aloud. He answerd, I stoped.

And I made sure I didnt chat for the rest of the race and now im getting a penalty for asking after the race. Its a bit exagerated and frustrating.

[Fredthebest]

What im saying is that after the race I saw everyone was chatting and no one was telling them to stop. So I thought that deko said that it was aloud and I didnt see him say it so seeing as everyone was chatting I just asked if chatting was aloud.

Its common sense that when you see that no ones asking for them to stop chatting you think its aloud.

I said Is chatting aloud, he said No. I stoped. It's THE ONLY THING I said. 1 line to know if its aloud. He answerd, I stoped.

And I made sure I didnt chat for the rest of the race and now im getting a penalty for asking after the race. Its a bit exagerated and frustrating.
Yeah after the race there was piles of people talking I didnt see anything about no talking until deko said it and the final thing I said after that was "Oh sorry!" and through the race, I can say all I was saying was maybe something like "sorry" or something and In Qualifying I tipped and said "Tipped ;[ and then I said "Requesting Telepit" I said I tipped so that deko would see im tipped and would know immediately to say that it was granted and for those penalized there was much more talking in that and alot of people did not get penalties for talking which I think is very unfair, because I could say alot more were talking because I remember at the end it was piled with chat and almost everyone was talking because nearly everyone was in the pitlane except about 3 people who were near the end.

[TAYLOR-MANIA]

As I said in the other thread...

Dekojester was typing away with unimportant messages as though it was allowed -

Cpt. Slow: crap race
Deko: This we know

If it's not allowed at that point then please don't reply to such comments in that way! It gives the impression that chatting is permitted.
Instead of replying like you did you should've reminded him/us that chat is not allowed yet. And when you did so we all shut up immediately.
But, I guess if you handed out penalties in the previous round for chatting when we were in the pitlane, then you must continue doing that. Did anyone get penalized for it last round? Chatting in the pitlane after the race had finished? If not, then I'd like to appeal.

[J@tko]

As I said in the other thread...

Dekojester was typing away with unimportant messages as though it was allowed -

Cpt. Slow: crap race
Deko: This we know

If it's not allowed at that point then please don't reply to such comments in that way! It gives the impression that chatting is permitted.
Instead of replying like you did you should've reminded him/us that chat is not allowed yet. And when you did so we all shut up immediately.
But, I guess if you handed out penalties in the previous round for chatting when we were in the pitlane, then you must continue doing that. Did anyone get penalized for it last round? Chatting in the pitlane after the race had finished? If not, then I'd like to appeal.


Ok, I'll act as referee here!

I will look at the replay later (hopefully)

None of us are perfect, and we all do make mistakes from time to time. This (I think) is Dekojester's first actual League as admin, and so he's certainly not perfect by any means (although better than me!)

I'll look into this for you ASAP, hopefully tonight.

[dekojester]

Just so you all know, when I issue penalties for chat, I watch the replay, and any non-telepit message is cited.

During a qual or race session, you are only cited once. So if you send 30 messages, you get the same as sending 5.

I am thinking of changing the penalties for this rule.

If you chat during qual, it's -2 grid spots for a first offense. 5 for each next offense.

If you chat during the race, it's a drive-through or a 30-second time penalty (if laps to go is < 3.

If you chat after the checkers and before the session is declared officially over, you will be assessed a 30-second time penalty.

Please give your thoughts on this.

Also, I will re-go over the chat penalties this evening.

d

[Fredthebest]

Originally Posted by TAYLOR-MANIA http://www.lfsforum.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=713014#post713014)
As I said in the other thread...

Dekojester was typing away with unimportant messages as though it was allowed -

Cpt. Slow: crap race
Deko: This we know

If it's not allowed at that point then please don't reply to such comments in that way! It gives the impression that chatting is permitted.
Instead of replying like you did you should've reminded him/us that chat is not allowed yet. And when you did so we all shut up immediately.
But, I guess if you handed out penalties in the previous round for chatting when we were in the pitlane, then you must continue doing that. Did anyone get penalized for it last round? Chatting in the pitlane after the race had finished? If not, then I'd like to appeal.


Ok, I'll act as referee here!

I will look at the replay later (hopefully)

None of us are perfect, and we all do make mistakes from time to time. This (I think) is Dekojester's first actual League as admin, and so he's certainly not perfect by any means (although better than me!)

I'll look into this for you ASAP, hopefully tonight.
First of all, that is a good point he did reply to that and J@tko of course none of us is perfect, I chatted a bit by saying sorry or something like that meaning not perfect, but if we all get Penalized Then I think Deko should get penalized in some way, yeah I know it doesn't make sense because hes not in the race, but replying to a message like that would tell other people that you're allowed to talk, so he should be penalized in some way.
Thanks.

[JO53PHS]

First of all, that is a good point he did reply to that and J@tko of course none of us is perfect, I chatted a bit by saying sorry or something like that meaning not perfect, but if we all get Penalized Then I think Deko should get penalized in some way, yeah I know it doesn't make sense because hes not in the race, but replying to a message like that would tell other people that you're allowed to talk, so he should be penalized in some way.
Thanks.

But how would any penalty affect dekojester because he isn't in the race and therefore loosing grid places or DTPs don't matter :really:

[dekojester]

I split out the discussion of the in-race chat to this thread to keep the race penalties thread less cluttered.

d

[JO53PHS]

Well now there are even more threads!!!! :really:

[Fredthebest]

But how would any penalty affect dekojester because he isn't in the race and therefore loosing grid places or DTPs don't matter :really:
Yeah but I mean in some other way.

[TAYLOR-MANIA]

I know! How about we ignore his 'No chat' message next round?! :D
Heh, only kidding...but there is no way to penalize him & besides, he doesn't need to be penalized because he hasn't done much wrong really. So let's not shift the blame onto him! :tilt:
I'm happy to accept the penalty so long as someone got done for it [chatting after the race finished, parked in the pitlane] in previous rounds...
The no-chat penalty situation is being looked at & that's all I wanted to come from this. Keep it up Deko.

[Technique]

Just so you all know, when I issue penalties for chat, I watch the replay, and any non-telepit message is cited.

During a qual or race session, you are only cited once. So if you send 30 messages, you get the same as sending 5.

I am thinking of changing the penalties for this rule.

If you chat during qual, it's -2 grid spots for a first offense. 5 for each next offense.

If you chat during the race, it's a drive-through or a 30-second time penalty (if laps to go is < 3.

If you chat after the checkers and before the session is declared officially over, you will be assessed a 30-second time penalty.

Please give your thoughts on this.

Also, I will re-go over the chat penalties this evening.

d

I'm fine with that. In defense of the people at the end of the race, prior to them chatting there was some casual chat by race control as well :) "piss on LFS points" and "the championship has been turned upside down!" or whatever didn't seem like vital race messages to me. If I was in the race I might have started chatting at that point as well. Don't take this the wrong way - you guys did an excellent job this race. I just want this league to be the best that it can be.

[evilpimp]

I know! How about we ignore his 'No chat' message next round?! :D
Heh, only kidding...but there is no way to penalize him & besides, he doesn't need to be penalized because he hasn't done much wrong really. So let's not shift the blame onto him! :tilt:
I'm happy to accept the penalty so long as someone got done for it [chatting after the race finished, parked in the pitlane] in previous rounds...
The no-chat penalty situation is being looked at & that's all I wanted to come from this. Keep it up Deko.

I know we cant penalise him but he is penalising us for doing something he has done himself. When you see that even the race official is chatting. You think its aloud so I ask if its aloud he said no and i didnt even reply to the no. So I think that my penalty should be revised because my offence wasnt really big and was caused because of a confusion created by people chatting including a race official.

You guys are doing a good job but I just think you should investigate the nature of the offences a bit more.

[J@tko]

We are thinking of an idea so that we can have chat during a race, as you may have questions/comments e.t.c, but won't affect the actual race.

It won't be in the race screen, but outside of it (msn maybe)?

Any ideas guys?

[JO53PHS]

We are thinking of an idea so that we can have chat during a race, as you may have questions/comments e.t.c, but won't affect the actual race.

It won't be in the race screen, but outside of it (msn maybe)?

Any ideas guys?

Hmm....

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaag :nod:

[J@tko]

Hmm....

Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaag :nod:

That's the downside of msn :shrug:

[JO53PHS]

That's the downside of msn :shrug:

Why can't people block messages and all VITAL messages are displayed in an RCM message

[J@tko]

Why can't people block messages and all VITAL messages are displayed in an RCM message

But then people can't randomly chat e.t.c
:shrug:

[evilpimp]

Well blackbird designed an insim application that you can close which has a chat inrace. Its kinda like a window and you can chat but you cant race at the same time. ppl who get DNF'd could use it while people racing could simply close it. Wouldnt cause lag either. If your interusted I can ask him :)

[J@tko]

Well blackbird designed an insim application that you can close which has a chat inrace. Its kinda like a window and you can chat but you cant race at the same time. ppl who get DNF'd could use it while people racing could simply close it. Wouldnt cause lag either. If your interusted I can ask him :)

That's kinda what I was thinking of!

I'll give him a bell.

[Fredthebest]

The following drivers talked extensively during race:
Mathius
Mutt
daleksam
[TG] hammond
[TG] Captain Slow
nightmare

The following drivers talked after they received DNF and should receive stiffer penalties:
Mathius
daleksam
[TG] hammond
nightmare

The following drivers disconnected early:
Mutt

The following drivers talked minimally:
[OPC] ROB!
J Taylor
i've just proved I did not talk extensively, I did NOT talk until I disconnected, I rejoined and said Argh Disconnected on 9th lap
I hate my internet etc etc
and then said Deko will I be recorded as DNF on 9th lap?
and he said yes.
Then when SESSION STOPPED Came up and people were pulling up into the pit lane, I started talking and so did EVERYONE ELSE.
I've got proof, Screenshots.

[J@tko]

I've got proof, Screenshots.
Please post screenshots of as much spam as you can plz - I won't be able to review replays tonight :(

[Fredthebest]

Please post screenshots of as much spam as you can plz - I won't be able to review replays tonight :(
Okay, Um gimme 20 mins and I'll begin to upload them and also in the replay, I have to say that Daleksam and Mutt talked alot!!!

[Technique]

i've just proved I did not talk extensively, I did NOT talk until I disconnected, I rejoined and said Argh Disconnected on 9th lap
I hate my internet etc etc
and then said Deko will I be recorded as DNF on 9th lap?
and he said yes.
Then when SESSION STOPPED Came up and people were pulling up into the pit lane, I started talking and so did EVERYONE ELSE.
I've got proof, Screenshots.

hey, I didn't post that to rat people out or to make enemies :) I too talked a good amount in round 2 and it was made clear that no talking was allowed. So when I watched the replay for round 3, it kind of made me upset actually that no one seemed to learn from the previous round!

I did watch the replay and yes you did not chat until you disconnected and rejoined. At that point, you sent 8 messages before the red flag when a simple "Disconnected, may I rejoin?" would have been fine. To me, that is excessive (considering people were penalized for only 2 messages in the last race) but my opinion matters not since I'm not involved with running this league :)

[Technique]

Speaking of disconnects... I don't believe there is anything in the rule book about disconnects (not that I can find anyway).

[J@tko]

Speaking of disconnects... I don't believe there is anything in the rule book about disconnects (not that I can find anyway).

The rule is that if you were running at the time of your disconnect, you may rejoin the race, but beware of blue flags.

Will be added when Dekojester sees this :shy:

[JO53PHS]

The rule is that if you were running at the time of your disconnect, you may rejoin the race, but beware of blue flags.

Will be added when Dekojester sees this :shy:

You have PM

[Fredthebest]

Ah sorry guys forgot to upload the screenshots and I've got homework to do right now, so I'll upload them ASAP when I get home tomorrow

[dekojester]

So, I have decided to nullify any penalties for anyone who chatted in parc ferme due to my non-admin chatting.

I still have to go through qualifying to sort out any more penalties for chat in that session.

[kABLiuks]

So, I have decided to nullify any penalties for anyone who chatted in parc ferme due to my non-admin chatting.

I still have to go through qualifying to sort out any more penalties for chat in that session.

wow! i think its abit too late for thing to be changed, due to next round already 3days away.... well thats your choise :)

[TAYLOR-MANIA]

So, I have decided to nullify any penalties for anyone who chatted in parc ferme due to my non-admin chatting.

I still have to go through qualifying to sort out any more penalties for chat in that session.

Erm...I only chatted in parc ferme too but in the Penalties & Results thread you've only listed MistaTea as having the penalty lifted... any reason for this?

[dekojester]

Erm...I only chatted in parc ferme too but in the Penalties & Results thread you've only listed MistaTea as having the penalty lifted... any reason for this?

I haven't fully reprocessed that chat.

I remembered MistaTea because he mentioned it in this thread. I couldn't remember offhand where you and the others at the bottom of that list were.

[Fredthebest]

If my penalty for chatting is not cleared, I am quitting LFSBC because I think that I did not deserve that penalty and if it isn't cleared I won't allow the penalty to happen.

you don't need proof, watch the replay to see why I was talking - I disconnected and then talked in the parc ferm because I though the race is over.

If anyone needs screenshots then sure, contact me via msn and I'll get them sent over before you can say Send!

Thanks,
[NiTRa] Nightmare

[J@tko]

I'll (hopefully me + Dekojester) be reviewing chatting over the weekend. It's just been one of those weeks for me - so much to bloomin do!

Screenies would be nice - my msn is in my profile.

[pacesetter]

The following drivers talked extensively during race:
Mathius
Mutt
daleksam
[TG] hammond
[TG] Captain Slow
nightmare

The following drivers talked after they received DNF and should receive stiffer penalties:
Mathius
daleksam
[TG] hammond
nightmare

The following drivers disconnected early:
Mutt

The following drivers talked minimally:
[OPC] ROB!
J Taylor

That was only so I (j.taylorIRE) could rejoin the race as my internet lost connection mid race:shrug:

[J@tko]

That was only so I (j.taylorIRE) could rejoin the race as my internet lost connection mid race:shrug:

Yep - that's ok. You are not penalised. For information, of you are disco'd mid race, you are allowed to re-join, just watch out for blues.

[Fredthebest]

So when are you guys looking at the penalties? I heard over the weekend, needs to be tomorrow asap because I'm not practicing until I get the "Cleared penalty" sign and if it doesn't happen then I'm out of LFSBC as I previously stated.

I need lots of practice firstly, its a race I've never played - except in a cruise server - so I don't know any of the track and I need to start practicing for it.

[dougie-lampkin]

So, where's the bank and the lotto pickup in LFSBC?

[J@tko]

So when are you guys looking at the penalties? I heard over the weekend, needs to be tomorrow asap because I'm not practicing until I get the "Cleared penalty" sign and if it doesn't happen then I'm out of LFSBC as I previously stated.

I need lots of practice firstly, its a race I've never played - except in a cruise server - so I don't know any of the track and I need to start practicing for it.

Quote from PM sent to me by Dekojester: (if you want to remove this deko, go ahead)

Fredthebest (Nightmare) had started his comments about finishing place during lap 11, two laps before the red flag was called for. This is when the penalty is called for.

This chat is against the rules.

I will not nullify his penalty.

The offending statement (I think - attached):
Deko, will I be recorded as a DNF on lap 9?

Punished under rule 1.4 of the rulebook.

IMO, a bit harsh but rules are rules.

Also, the response given to Nightmare, 'yes', is incorrect, as he has the choice to re-join the race and continue. Deko, after you read this, please give your thoughts.

[DieKolkrabe]

My $0.02

I don't think that Fred should be penalized as he's been given the wrong information, which contributed to his continued chat.

DK

[J@tko]

My $0.02

I don't think that Fred should be penalized as he's been given the wrong information, which contributed to his continued chat.

DK

+1, but not my decision. :shrug:

[dougie-lampkin]

But he still chatted in the first place...had he read the rules, he would've known that he wouldn't be DNF'ed...

[DieKolkrabe]

But do the rules say that race control are allowed to chat to the drivers and tell them if they will/won't be counted?

DK

[J@tko]

But he still chatted in the first place...had he read the rules, he would've known that he wouldn't be DNF'ed...

Actually, that's not in the rules. *hint* I asked Dekojester to add it, but I don't think he's got round to it yet. */hint*

But do the rules say that race control are allowed to chat to the drivers and tell them if they will/won't be counted?

DK

No mention. We're trying to think of a way that drivers can talk to RC, but not in game :shrug:

[dougie-lampkin]

IDK, I haven't read them :shy:

But the rules DO say that you can rejoin after a timeout. He could have waited till the end (as you're obliged to stay to the end anyway) and asked then...

Oh well, I thought that was included, I must have seen it in a discussion...

Looking at the screenshot, he did a lot of chat before actually asking would he be DNF...

[DieKolkrabe]

No mention. We're trying to think of a way that drivers can talk to RC, but not in game :shrug:

The rule (1.4 I think it is) says that race officials can use chat for important messages. Does talking to drivers and answering their questions come under that category?

Try TS for your prob btw

@dougie: I disagree, you're not obliged to. What if, for instance, you time out/cable gets unplugged?

DK

[Fredthebest]

I still haven't fully left yet guys, If by tonight the penalty isnt cleared then im out.

[dekojester]

Quote from PM sent to me by Dekojester: (if you want to remove this deko, go ahead)



The offending statement (I think - attached):


Punished under rule 1.4 of the rulebook.

IMO, a bit harsh but rules are rules.

Also, the response given to Nightmare, 'yes', is incorrect, as he has the choice to re-join the race and continue. Deko, after you read this, please give your thoughts.

The "No" I said was directed at Math1js. The "Yes" right after "cause I dc'ed" was directed at Nightmare. I did give him permission to rejoin, but because of other (anti-rules) chat, he got confused and missed the message.

Due to the fact that the rejoin regulations were unclear because they were in the initial rules and regs but not the newest ones at the time, I will grant "immunity" to those who had disconnects and asked to rejoin in Round 3.

This will ONLY occur THIS TIME. No future time will chat about "can I rejoin because I disco'ed" or any other chat except for "may I telepit - upside down in Turn 4" sort will be allowed.

I will add into the regs to allow ONE asking of a question per question about procedural items.

Speaking of updating the regs, I'm almost done. I got 99% done last night, but then was completely knackered and went to bed. Will work on them through and after FP1, done in time for FP2.

d