Why are the crash physics so stupid?

[Migz]

Im just wondering, why are the car vs. barrier crash physics so stupid?
Why didnt the devs just do a small little car gets some dammage and bounces of the barrier?
Instead of flying millions of miles into the air?

[Takumi_lfs]

"Why can't human fly?"

What is your point?

[mcgas001]

There is no point to this point thread but seen as its here. Do you understand how hard physic's control is?. The devs dont realy care about barriers as LFS is a race sim not a try and crash the barrier and see how far you go sim. The devs will fix them when and if they want to. Just be happy with what you got. 1 man made this game. Remember that.....

[Migz]

I wasnt complaining :S I was just wondering why the barriers had a crazy crash thing lol.
Couldnt they just have the crash physics the same as crashing into a wall?

[The Radness]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=11421


here ya go....It's a beginners forum miracle!

[Dajmin]

I posted my theory on this one a couple of weeks ago.
The walls are permanent fixtures. Nothing passes them, they're always there. Therefor it'll be hardcoded that nothing can pass them. The same reason you bounce off the mess fences as hard as you do the concrete.

Here's my theory on the Pinball Effect (TM) (patent pending):
The red/white barriers are dynamic and can are moved depending on the track config or autocross layout.
The collision physics updates in cycles, but about 1/5 the speed of the tyres physics (IIRC). Because of server latency and ping speeds, the exact moment of the collision often falls between these updates and by the time the engine has realised you're touching it, your car has already effectively passed through it.

Of course it knows you can't occupy the same space, so it begins the collision calc. But because the car is touching all sides of the barrier (the front side you should've hit, the backside your nose is sticking out of and the top) it calcs them all. It's an impossible situation but it tries anyway, rebounding off one part, colliding with another, rebounding again - all in the space of a few milliseconds. Multiple forces speed the collisions up and eventually your ping/lag causes you to leave the object again and appear in the rebound direction of the last side you hit.

Might be totally wrong, but that's the way I understand it.

[xaotik]

Im just wondering, why are the car vs. barrier crash physics so stupid?
Why didnt the devs just do a small little car gets some dammage and bounces of the barrier?
Instead of flying millions of miles into the air?

The quick answer to the first question that has been mentioned before: because they're not complete yet.

To the second & third questions: because Scawen in this phase of the development cycle seems to use a totalitarian approach when addressing a problem - it's either fully addressed (with a possibility of the section that relates to be it being redone) or not touched at all until it comes up on his priority list.

[spankmeyer]

I cannot recall when was the last time I DNF'd in a race because of an inherent flaw in LFS's collision detection. No seriously – I can't remember when the collision detection ruined my race.

I've wrecked my car numerous times in league races but I can only blame myself for going too fast into a corner and busting my suspension when the wall caves my left side wheels in and I end up on my roof.

Driver error caused the DNF, not dodgy collision detection.

Unless you are deliberately crashing into walls and objects or having lag issues (first one is stupidity, second has nothing to do with LFS), I'm stating the DNFs are mostly caused by driver error in the first place.

EDIT: But I'd like to see crumble zones and proper dissipation of kinetic energy implemented before the hell freezes over.

[xaotik]

Driver error caused the DNF, not dodgy collision detection.

Yeah, but as in real racing, you should be able to make an error, bump into a wall or something and limp it to the pits instead of flying to Venus without even a final countdown.

[Kegetys]

I cannot recall when was the last time I DNF'd in a race because of an inherent flaw in LFS's collision detection. No seriously – I can't remember when the collision detection ruined my race.

Try driving some autox - a small touch with a barrier and 'boing' off you go towards the orbit most of the time... Well ok, its not the collision detection ruining it, its the behaviour when a collision is detected :x :jester:

I can remember a few occasions in "real" races too where the collision behaviour has ruined my race. One instace was when the driver ahead had knocked a tyre stack into the middle of the FE chicane. I saw it late, braked and still got to slow down quite alot so it should not have made much of a dent in the car, except that when the nose touched it my car flew to the air, flipped two or three times and landed upside down on top of the barrier.

[spankmeyer]

Yeah, but as in real racing, you should be able to make an error, bump into a wall or something and limp it to the pits instead of flying to Venus without even a final countdown.

Fair point considering many possible variables but an FZ5 dry humping a South City wall at 100 km/h would not make it back to pits.

Try driving some autox - a small touch with a barrier and 'boing' off you go towards the orbit most of the time... Well ok, its not the collision detection ruining it, its the behaviour when a collision is detected

I forgot Auto Xing completely. I can see the barriers cause mayhem there.

I was not saying the collision detection is perfect or even good enough. I was pointing out that probably the vast majority of DNF crashes are caused by the driver error and the end result would be the same if we'd replace the moonflight with a stalled car leaking oil and coolant on the race track and missing 3 out of 4 wheels (and the 4th bent underneath the car).

[xaotik]

Fair point considering many possible variables but an FZ5 dry humping a South City wall at 100 km/h would not make it back to pits.

True that, true that. One day it'll do the decent carcrashy thing and scatter parts and oil all over the track making people even more annoyed and bitter for messing up their potential PB.

[ajassat]

Im just wondering, why are the car vs. barrier crash physics so stupid?
Why didnt the devs just do a small little car gets some dammage and bounces of the barrier?
Instead of flying millions of miles into the air?

It is easy for you to criticise the physics. You have to remember that game physics are difficult and require a lot of know how.

[jtw62074]

Proper collision response is really hard to do. I spent the better part of the last year working on a new system for mine, and it's not perfect by any means. I'd rather see the LFS guys doing other things, personally. Good drivers don't crash too often :p

[robgo]

There is no point to this point thread but seen as its here. Do you understand how hard physic's control is?. The devs dont realy care about barriers as LFS is a race sim not a try and crash the barrier and see how far you go sim. The devs will fix them when and if they want to. Just be happy with what you got. 1 man made this game. Remember that.....


It's quite annoying though when you practice for a leage race, touch the wall in the race, then your car flies through the fence, then touches the wall from the other side and flies up again.

[wheel4hummer]

"Why can't human fly?"
Exactly. LFS needs to implement flying humans! You should have a seat belt button, and if you don't use it then you fly out your windshield and become road kill. Completel with blood splatter on the windshield that you use the windshield wipers to get off. :thumbsup:

[shiny_red_cobra]

Flat Out 3: Live For Speed!

[dmwright]

I think really this should be in the improvement section. I don't agree with people having ago and saying this thread is stupid because people won't post on the LFS Forum again as they think they might get moaned at. I think twice about posting a thread before I click that button because I just couldn't be bothered getting people having ago. Now guys can we please smile and keep to the forum topic as it will be useless if it goes offtopic.

Now More to the point the physics. The physics in the game arnt the best but still need improvment I think. Also I really think which is crucial is weather and damage of cars. Damage - Bumpers can come off, Lights can smash, windows can crack, dints, scrapes, missing panels etc. Weather different climate control, snow, rain sunny etc. TUNING ENGINES :):)

[zeromussov]

I think really this should be in the improvement section. I don't agree with people having ago and saying this thread is stupid because people won't post on the LFS Forum again as they think they might get moaned at. I think twice about posting a thread before I click that button because I just couldn't be bothered getting people having ago. Now guys can we please smile and keep to the forum topic as it will be useless if it goes offtopic.

Now More to the point the physics. The physics in the game arnt the best but still need improvment I think. Also I really think which is crucial is weather and damage of cars. Damage - Bumpers can come off, Lights can smash, windows can crack, dints, scrapes, missing panels etc. Weather different climate control, snow, rain sunny etc. TUNING ENGINES :):)

I agree:) But that's why LFS is still in 'beta' version.

btw, - for your last 'suggestion'

[dmwright]

Dammm :shy: I really looked forward to using the tools in the LFS Workshop tuning that oil engine!

I'd spend so much time on it :razz:

[niall09]

I agree:) But that's why LFS is still in 'beta' version.

Don't you mean Alpha? :tilt:

[sgt.flippy]

The only time I can remember losing a race not because of my own fault, it was because of lag really. I bumped the car in front of me, while he was actually further away..
But I do agree the crashes look awkward sometimes, they can be very realistic, but at the same time very weird too.

When people crash now others sometimes start to shout at them for still being on the track... I don't even dare to imagine what would happen if also parts of the car would still be there on the track...
I personally would love it, I love avoiding the wrecks of a crash and making it through in one piece. If I crash too I don't really care. Racing accident.

[fthsjustin]

Im just wondering, why are the car vs. barrier crash physics so stupid?
Why didnt the devs just do a small little car gets some dammage and bounces of the barrier?
Instead of flying millions of miles into the air?

actually i've sent the devs a long letter on the "contact us" portion of the their site about this stuff over 8 months ago and have yet to get a reply....
so dont think they're gonna fix them..... You cant fix stupid.

[Poffter]

Here is my view on barriers and ramps:

Why the hell would you include something that doesn't work properly when you are THAT anal about so many other small stuff?

[BuddhaBing]

Here is my view on barriers and ramps:

Why the hell would you include something that doesn't work properly when you are THAT anal about so many other small stuff?

Because it works well enough 99.5% of the time. If you were to have the devs remove everything in the game that doesn't work 100% properly 100% of the time, you'd be left with what? You certainly wouldn't have any tyres. Nor would you have a chassis, or any bodywork, or an engine, or a transmission. You'd basically be left sitting on your arse on the grid with a disembodied steering wheel in your hands and a horn laying forlornly on the ground beside you.

[Stang70Fastback]

When people crash now others sometimes start to shout at them for still being on the track... I don't even dare to imagine what would happen if also parts of the car would still be there on the track...
I personally would love it, I love avoiding the wrecks of a crash and making it through in one piece. If I crash too I don't really care. Racing accident.

Agreed. Nothing is more exciting than avoiding 4 spun-out cars in turn 2 with 20 other cars all around you trying to do the same thing. I don't at all understand the whole SHIFT+P!!!! rule as soon as you are about to crash so that other people don't get messed up. If it's a really STUPID error, then maybe, but if it's just a typical error (hitting the curb too hard, another car, taking a turn a bit too fast, etc...) I think it should be allowed to play out. All the people on these forums are so concerned with realism in racing, I don't understand why they insist that cars vanish at the first sign of trouble.

[Gekkibi]

Agreed. Nothing is more exciting than avoiding 4 spun-out cars in turn 2 with 20 other cars all around you trying to do the same thing. I don't at all understand the whole SHIFT+P!!!! rule as soon as you are about to crash so that other people don't get messed up. If it's a really STUPID error, then maybe, but if it's just a typical error (hitting the curb too hard, another car, taking a turn a bit too fast, etc...) I think it should be allowed to play out. All the people on these forums are so concerned with realism in racing, I don't understand why they insist that cars vanish at the first sign of trouble.

I agree it also. After all, crashes makes racing more lively (And thus, more realistic). What if there is automatic pitting when crashing -feature in the future? I would dislike it, indeed. Only use for shift + P is if your car flips over in the middle of the road, and you can't drive it to safety. Imho it makes atmosphere when fellow racers park their wrecks to the grass and leave 'em there.