What's the fascination with drifting!?

[Ikaponthus]

Browsing these forums, it seems to be really popular! I can't imagine why it would appeal to sim-racing enthusiasts. Certainly is pretty low on my motoring "to do" list, but I don't know too much about it.

As far as I understand, it's maybe the slowest way to corner and couldn't be too healthy for the car either (let alone burning the tyres)!

I see it on youtube too ... what's with these guys? Why would you want to drive a car slowly and dangerously and rip your tyres to shreds? Okay ... so I suppose it could be fun for a while. But apart from that, are there any practical reasons? Or is it just a glorified burnout?

Serious question, I don't know much about it, I'm not trying to wind anyone up.

[March Hare]

And while you're at it could someone PLEASE tell me what a "drift car" is?

[frokki]

And while you're at it could someone PLEASE tell me what a "drift car" is?Easy. It's a car that's modified to perform better in drifing. You could aswell ask what is a drag car, a race car, or ice-cream van.

And on topic, drifting is popular in LFS because it's fun and easy. You can just jump to any server or track with any RWD car and start drifting. No need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do.

[jibber]

so I suppose it could be fun for a while.

You answered your own question with that pretty much. :thumb:

[Ikaponthus]

I think it's more fun to drive fast.

However, I agree sliding around is fun for a bit of light-hearted mucking about - but for how long? Ten minutes? There are people who seem to take it really seriously! I could have sworn I saw a "drifting" race on television before I left for Ireland! And it seems on YouTube there's some professional "drifting racers" in Japan! If it's just a bit of fun driving a car sideways, how can they be professionals? And how can they "race"? Anyone who decided to drive properly would lap them all! Is there any practical benefit to it? Because it seems to me the worst way you could choose to drive on a racing track - slow, dangerous and killing your tyres/car.

I like to have a car that's a little bit loose - a tiny bit of sliding here and there just to rotate the car into the corner neatly, but what I'm talking about is a barely perceptible slip compared to "drift racing" which seems ... just odd.

I'm not trying to be condescending, I really just don't understand the fascination or popularity at all.

[Intrepid]

what's the fascination with trying to drive a good lap?

To drift to a pro level is pretty tricky stuff, and just as valid as any other form of motoring.

What's the point of kicking a leather ball around a pitch, or painting a picture, or writing a song.???

maybe if you invested some time to actually doing it, and understanding what it takes to do it like a pro you might understand why it's so popular.

[jibber]

And on topic, drifting is popular in LFS because it's fun and easy. You can just jump to any server or track with any RWD car and start drifting. No need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do.

I wouldn't say it's as hard as rocket science, but to say it's easy in a way like "no need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do" sure is a bit far from reality.

To just powerslide in a corner isn't hard at all, i agree. But to actually do proper drifting (early initiation, corner linking, etc) sure demands some practise, skill, taking/learning the right lines, setup tweaking and all that.

In all the discussions about drifting, i see people saying "ohh, i don't dislike drifters or drifting in general... it's just those noobs with the bad attitude which are pissing me off". But still there is all this "down talking" about drifting all the time. It's getting annoying, really. :schwitz:

[Ikaponthus]

what's the fascination with trying to drive a good lap?

Well, you're trying to see how fast you can make the car go... it's basic yes, but there is actually a point. I don't know what drifting is trying to achieve at all!

To drift to a pro level is pretty tricky stuff, and just as valid as any other form of motoring.

How on earth does one become a pro "drifter"?

What's the point of kicking a leather ball around a pitch, or painting a picture, or writing a song.???

All of those things have very clearly defined goals. I still don't know what is the goal of drifting. It's getting a racing car and making it go slowly and eating the tyres and the only reason I can fathom so far is "it's fun". Which is fair enough, but I'm just trying to ascertain if there is something more to it, or is it just for a shits and giggles?

maybe if you invested some time to actually doing it, and understanding what it takes to do it like a pro you might understand why it's so popular.

I believe you that to "drift like a pro", whatever that means, might be difficult. But I still don't know why you'd want to master this seemingly useless talent, except because it's funny to do it! :shrug:

[Ikaponthus]

In all the discussions about drifting, i see people saying "ohh, i don't dislike drifters or drifting in general... it's just those noobs with the bad attitude which are pissing me off". But still there is all this "down talking" about drifting all the time. It's getting annoying, really. :schwitz:

Hmmm ... sorry I honestly wasn't aware that this occurred!!

I thought everyone thought it was cool and I was the one left a bit confused.

I don't want to talk down to anyone, and I can accept it's fun in the same way as doing doughnuts or eating ice cream is fun.

But to be a professional ice-cream eater or "burnout-pro"? It seems to me the same thing almost.

[frokki]

I wouldn't say it's as hard as rocket science, but to say it's easy in a way like "no need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do" sure is a bit far from reality.Dunno, I was just speaking from my own experience. If I join a race on a combo I've never raced before, I'm having a hard time to keep with the others that have already been racing there for a while, because I have no clue about braking and turn-in points. But if I'd join a drift server, it's just about flooring the pedal and countersteering. :shrug:

[mcintyrej]

Professional drifting sees competitors judged on their lines (following the racing line), speed and angle. If you want to do it seriously, you can enter competitions.

I guess some do it for the adrenaline rush of entering a cornet at 70mph going sideways.

[Ikaponthus]

I guess some do it for the adrenaline rush of entering a cornet at 70mph going sideways.

:schwitz:That would be scary!

[nihil]

Well, you're trying to see how fast you can make the car go... it's basic yes, but there is actually a point. I don't know what drifting is trying to achieve at all!

Is there a point to getting a fast time? Not really, no more point than a matador killing a bull. Sport is not a 'productive' activity, it is a waste product. Which gives it a function if you really need to...

How on earth does one become a pro "drifter"?

Pretty much the same way anyone becomes a professional in any career. Money, luck, talent, and blowjobs (sometimes)


I still don't know what is the goal of drifting.

Drifting is the utterly necessary, Dionysian counterpart to Motorsport's obsession with time.

[mcintyrej]

:schwitz:That would be scary!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxVIcNsGvRc

Tell me that wouldn't be an adrenaline rush. :tilt:

[Ikaponthus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxVIcNsGvRc

Tell me that wouldn't be an adrenaline rush. :tilt:

Might be fun but anyone racing properly would skin them both alive. Which would be more of a rush IMO.

[nihil]

Might be fun but anyone racing properly would skin them both alive. Which would be more of a rush IMO.

Whatever...

Hey, did anyone get any valentine cards?

[pearcy_2k7]

What's with you trying to get yourself some brownie points.

[Ikaponthus]

What do you mean "whatever"? You think they wouldn't?

Screw Valentines day. :really:

[Agent248]

If you want my opinion, racing and drifting is 2 different thing that can't really compare. It's like saying figure skating shouldn't be at the olympic game because speed skating is way better. They just can't compare. One give point for move you do and the other on second you save.

[srdsprinter]

Simple:

Those who can, Race. Those who cannot, Drift.

[gezmoor]

Instead of all you drifters getting defensive and agressive why don't you just explain to the OP what the point of drifting is?

I know little to nothing about drifting but even I can work out that there is some skill in being able to control a car on the limit whilst the tyres are spinning. As far as I can see this is the point of drifting. Just like attempting the fastest lap times and beating your oponents by avoiding exactly that situation is the point of normal racing. I would assume that drifters get points for going around circuits or courses etc taking the best lines or achieving the fastest times whilst still being considered to be "drifting". At the end of the day its all about clutch and steering control attempting to keep the car balanced while trying to achieve a specific objective. Exactly the same as you do in a normal race, except that the objective is different.

The only element I would say was missing from drifting that you need in spades in "normal" racing is guts. It takes guts and a complete lack of fear to be right out there on the limit doing the kinds of speeds that normal racing achieves in real life. The control required for drifting may be the same but in general the speeds are much lower, (as far as I'm aware anyway).

[jibber]

Simple:

Those who can, Race. Those who cannot, Drift.

Good drifters race aswell, and if they do, they are usually among the faster drivers. :thumb:

[hypnolobster]

In Formula D, which is "professional drifting," they aren't really racing. They're scored on proximity, angle, speed, etc.

Arguing and getting uppity about it is absolutely pointless. This is like people arguing about how circletrack racing is boring, or how F1 is stupid because the cars are too fast, or equally idiotic arguments that are based around OPINION.

If you don't like drifting, don't drift. It's not a big deal. If you don't like F1 cars, don't drive them.

Don't even start to argue that any kind of racing takes less skill, or that people who can't race; drift. You have never done it, and judging from the level of maturity around here, you have never driven in a race based around speed or laptimes in actual life, and not in a game.

I'm not defending drifting, I'm not saying it's better than anything else. Everyone has their own tastes. Stop worrying about it (I will note one thing; there seem to be a lot more jerks on drift servers. I imagine this is because drifting is currently the hot new thing to do, and it attracts people who have the STREET RACER DRIFTUUUUU attitude).

EDIT for more clarity and irritation; someone racing normally would certainly "beat" someone who is drifting. Speed around a course is not the point. Arguing that "BUT US REAL DRIVERS GET AROUND CORNERS FASTER" is completely against the point.

[xaotik]

But apart from that, are there any practical reasons?

It's a great way to get change dislodged from under the seat.

[jibber]

LOL! I like your humor! :thumb::D

[srdsprinter]

My first post was somewhat tounge-in-cheek, but it was a comment on the fact I don't understand the appeal either.

Truthfully, I believe drifting/racing is a right brain/left brain type of difference. Science/Arts.

Racing is masculine. It is about competition, winning, ultimate speed, engineering, technology, etc. The objectives are very concrete: Win, Go The Fastest.

Drifting is abstract and has intangible objectives. Hence why it is a judged sport.

I have little doubt that talent in drifting is a difficult skill set.

But just like the original post, some people (myself included) will never feel the appeal of it.

[natedog420]

either you like or you dont. dont hate on drifters or racers no matter what we all like we should all respect each other and not argue about things like this. racing is fun and i like it a lot. i also like drifting a lot and yes it does take skill to control a car sideways at high speed even the slow technical parts. racing takes skill to trying to find that quickest line and beating your opponents just as you would in drifting but judged by points etc.. i think if your a racer and hate drifting you need to try it out if you havent or if you have just respect that not all people like the same thing or this world would be boring as F:xCK! same with drifters who hate racing. it goes both ways. just get a long and we would have a more pleasant racing and drifting environment in LFS.:thumb:

[pearcy_2k7]

FFS! How many times have we had this fcking argument it's the same old track over again im fcking sick of it.

If you want to drift, then DRIFT

If you want to race, then RACE

simple STFU FFS! :x

[agm_ultimatex]

Easy. It's a car that's modified to perform better in drifing. You could aswell ask what is a drag car, a race car, or ice-cream van.

And on topic, drifting is popular in LFS because it's fun and easy. You can just jump to any server or track with any RWD car and start drifting. No need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do.

It's true, I can strangly drift better in the xrt on hard track vs a drift setup from team inferno.

[agm_ultimatex]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxVIcNsGvRc

Tell me that wouldn't be an adrenaline rush. :tilt:

I remember reading an article of some navy guys docked in saudi arabia. They rented an accord, and did a drift stunt as it was said doing about 110kph, the driver ended up killing his 3 passengers, and he was executed. So it can be scary, but fun if you actually know what you are doing.

[benjie.13]

I hate drifting, and think it was great that the XRT was banned from the DEMO.

FFS! How many times have we had this fcking argument it's the same old track over again im fcking sick of it.

If you want to drift, then DRIFT

If you want to race, then RACE

simple STFU FFS! :x
Your English is a disgrace to the team, lol.

[Shotglass]

england really needs to reintroduce the death penalty
the effects of genetic seclusion are really starting to show

[Hankstar]

Quadruple post = fail. I'm sure you're aware of the 'edit' and 'delete' functions...

[atlantian]

Browsing these forums, it seems to be really popular! I can't imagine why it would appeal to sim-racing enthusiasts. Certainly is pretty low on my motoring "to do" list, but I don't know too much about it.

As far as I understand, it's maybe the slowest way to corner and couldn't be too healthy for the car either (let alone burning the tyres)!

I see it on youtube too ... what's with these guys? Why would you want to drive a car slowly and dangerously and rip your tyres to shreds? Okay ... so I suppose it could be fun for a while. But apart from that, are there any practical reasons? Or is it just a glorified burnout?

Serious question, I don't know much about it, I'm not trying to wind anyone up.

look... the only reason drifters would look for realistic driving sims to drift is because it's REALISTIC. they want to practice without worrying about tires and part costs... if you are into racing, why not go play NFS?

[March Hare]

Easy. It's a car that's modified to perform better in drifing.
What major modifications does a car need to be a "drift car"?
Apart from having:

Been lowered
Ridiculous amounts of camber
RWD
Dorifto graphics plastered all overAll this you can already do in LFS so why do many people want a "drift car" added to LFS?

[atlantian]

I hate drifting, and think it was great that the XRT was banned from the DEMO.

how would that change anything for drifting in the full version? you are a bigot for hating something you don't know about

[atlantian]

What major modifications does a car need to be a "drift car"?
Apart from having:

Been lowered
Ridiculous amounts of camber
RWD
Dorifto graphics plastered all overAll this you can already do in LFS so why do many people want a "drift car" added to LFS?
idk, they are just being silly... and havent really tried the game out...

oh, btw, the "speed" that is a factor in drifting is not about time, it's about raising the risk factor and making it more exciting. and the more hype you can generate with your crazy driving style, the better score you would generate

[March Hare]

Thanks for the clarification.

[atlantian]

Thanks for the clarification.
oh, yes, and they need the big air dam in the front bumper to show off that big intercooler!

i don't honestly mind, if it's realistic, i'm happy, if i have a need to look at sexy cars, i would look online...
and/or go to my friend's house to "play" GT5 (we actually just do a lap, then we watch the replay for 20 minutes...:D)

[Shotglass]

What major modifications does a car need to be a "drift car"?
Apart from having:

Been lowered
Ridiculous amounts of camber
RWD
Dorifto graphics plastered all overAll this you can already do in LFS so why do many people want a "drift car" added to LFS?

the modifications that would be useful beyond what lfs can offer right now would be more steering lock and a bigger turbo/more power in general

the turbo would imho also make for an interesting car to race since it will be oversized peaky and laggy

[agm_ultimatex]

As 5th gear put it best, it's about car control. When I was learning to do it in NFS most wanted, and finally achieved it, I was quite happy. When I do a nice one in LFS I feel good. Just like when having a fun race. I guess thats why I like using the XRG. Having the oversteer through a corner :).

[March Hare]

the turbo would imho also make for an interesting car to race since it will be oversized peaky and laggy
Now you made me want a humongous laggy peaky turbo in the XRT. :really:

[atlantian]

actually, that would cool, since then it would be good practice for throttle control with a turbo

[Greboth]

Simply put-

Racing: Driving a car as fast as possible on the edge of grip around a race track

Drifting: Sliding a car, with as much angle and speed as possible.

I race alot but I do drift occasionally and I find both fun. I am really unbiased when it comes to motorsport as I will watch any sport as long as it comes with engines and wheels (and sometimes sports with no wheels) but people enjoy different things, Some people like football, rugby, basketball, baseball, motor racing racing etc - Why? Who knows its just a personal opinion. The thing is about opinions is that no one is right or wrong on them but this forum still seems to argue about them lol.

[atlantian]

Simply put-

Racing: Driving a car as fast as possible on the edge of grip around a race track

Drifting: Sliding a car, with as much angle and speed as possible.

I race alot but I do drift occasionally and I find both fun. I am really unbiased when it comes to motorsport as I will watch any sport as long as it comes with engines and wheels (and sometimes sports with no wheels) but people enjoy different things, Some people like football, rugby, basketball, baseball, motor racing racing etc - Why? Who knows its just a personal opinion. The thing is about opinions is that no one is right or wrong on them but this forum still seems to argue about them lol.
thank you for simplifying everything that is the right definition of drifting!

[dawesdust_12]

What's the point of kicking a leather ball around a pitch, or painting a picture, or writing a song.???

Really, there's no point, becuase eventually we'll all die. Why does it matter what we do, when it'll get nullified eventually anyways.

[gremwood]

GTFO this forum Ikaponthus, maybe some people want to drift, some want to race. If you want to do both, so be it. If you don't like to drift, ignore it. It's not like drifters take away your racing abilities, hog race server slots, or screw up your LFS experience. Also, you're in demo. Anything happens in demo, because it's not paid for... and frankly, no one in demo really gives a rat's ass about what you do, unless they're S2 teams with demo servers.

Talk about flogging a dead horse.

[Hankstar]

:really:
Pull your head in. Did you miss this? Serious question, I don't know much about it, I'm not trying to wind anyone up.He seemed genuinely curious to me :shrug:

Believe it or not, it's actually possible that someone on t3h internets didn't know all about dorifto and asked a legitimate question in order to get an understanding of it. Didn't really deserve a smackdown imho.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers - especially those answers which don't even answer the question or contribute to the discussion.

[pearcy_2k7]

Maybe but saying "Im not trying to wind anyone up" he obviously must have known its a sensative subject here, it's been discussed plenty of times all over the forum which i bet he has seen.

I can take crap suggestions but one thing i can't take is a sh!t stirer

[kamkorPL]

What major modifications does a car need to be a "drift car"?
Apart from having:
Been lowered
Ridiculous amounts of camber
RWD
Dorifto graphics plastered all overAll this you can already do in LFS so why do many people want a "drift car" added to LFS?

And why the heck people created F1. Maybe because it's good to aim higher, and not be satisfied with racing let's say for example Fiat Pandas.

But oh well.. I love it when I get a chance to laugh at someone criticizing something he has no idea about. :ices_rofl First research, then write.

Aren't you the one who has been asking this in drift car suggestion thread and you that have been answered countless times even with a link to awesome S15 DW project? There must be some error in your brain, since you are having a hard time processing the information about what is a car build for drifting.

I also loved the answer to your question on 1st page:

Easy. It's a car that's modified to perform better in drifing. You could aswell ask what is a drag car, a race car, or ice-cream van.

Brillant. :D:thumb:

And on topic, drifting is popular in LFS because it's fun and easy. You can just jump to any server or track with any RWD car and start drifting. No need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do.

Kind of. There is a lot to setup making though. I spend quite much time improving my setups to make the car be even better and better while going sideways.

About the difficulty. I think mastering racing and drifting is both extremely difficult. Mastering racing is going with perfect lines(according to the situation in a race), getting perfect splits, getting perfect laptimes etc. Now while drifting imagine doing a perfect lap each time with maximum possible angles, best lines(super close to the walls etc) and best possible speeds with those lines and angles. In fact, I believe that mastering any kind of motorsport that involves driver a lot is super hard.

But I get your point too, as it's true that even if you don't have much skill, great set etc you can jump into the server and just slide around. But there is a difference beetwen "this sliding" around and doing a perfect drift. Just like there is a difference beetwen "racing in the back" and winning a race.

Preparing to drift competitions also takes time for the ones that are serious and want to win. It's not a jump in and drive process if you are aiming high.

The feel during driving sideways in real life is an amazing feel. Drifting is also something very entertaining for spectators, hell ! I love rallies for the fact that rally drivers are going sideways on those scary fast narrow roads. If someone doesn't like drifting, then the reasons are I think:

1) He never tried it himself
2) He never at least experienced it first hand during a proper co-drive
3) He learned about drifting from FastnFurious
4) His idea of drifting is based on "local parking drifters"
5) His idea of drifting is based purely on some internet opinions.

^He/she

[Gabkicks]

Simple:

Those who can, Race. Those who cannot, Drift.:dunce:

[Shotglass]

Really, there's no point, becuase eventually we'll all die. Why does it matter what we do, when it'll get nullified eventually anyways.

then whats the point of not commiting suicide?

[Yaamboo]

I believe I have given my opinion on this in another thread (and somebody is still running with a quote from me in his signature ;) ), but basically... Why do you all care so much? I enjoy real racing (i.e. not drifting), but from time to time when I get bored, a nice drifting session is something I can enjoy (although I suck at it). Off course, one should not try to drive a real racing line on a drifting server and vice versa.

[dawesdust_12]

then whats the point of not commiting suicide?

In all honesty? There's none, other than it's regarded socially as being bad.

[Ikaponthus]

:really:
Pull your head in. Did you miss this? He seemed genuinely curious to me :shrug:

Believe it or not, it's actually possible that someone on t3h internets didn't know all about dorifto and asked a legitimate question in order to get an understanding of it. Didn't really deserve a smackdown imho.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers - especially those answers which don't even answer the question or contribute to the discussion.

Yes, thankyou!!! :)

One thing about this forum I have noticed so far is that a lot of people seem to use it as some kind of penis-measuring competition and will get aggressive and abusive quickly.

Not that I take it to heart or anything.

But yes, it was a serious question. To be totally honest, my initial reaction was, "what on earth are they doing? That looks really stupid, slow and dangerous, and there's not even any point to it!", so I suppose I did ask it with a slight initial negative bias, but I also genuinely wanted to know what is all the fuss about and I genuinely wanted someone to explain the purpose/goals/rules or whatever.

[xaotik]

In all honesty? There's none, other than it's regarded socially as being bad.

Well, there's that and the general health considerations, statistically more so for the suicide.

[March Hare]

And why the heck people created F1. Maybe because it's good to aim higher, and not be satisfied with racing let's say for example Fiat Pandas.
Because the Panda is not really fast nor does it handle very well at speeds?
But oh well.. I love it when I get a chance to laugh at someone criticizing something he has no idea about. :ices_rofl First research, then write.You did notice the question mark in my first post? I am asking what a "drift car" is. And what major modifications are required.
Aren't you the one who has been asking this in drift car suggestion thread and you that have been answered countless times even with a link to awesome S15 DW project?Yes I've asked it before but never has anybody given me a link to that project.
Did a search (something that seems to be overwhelmingly difficult to some people) on google and found this (http://www.driftworks.com/forum/drift-car-projects-builds/29908-driftworks-s15-2jzgte.html)
Is that the one?
Haven't read it through yet but seems like a RWD race prepped vehicle which has been lowered, ridiculous amounts of camber added and dorifto style graphics all over... I just had a strange feeling of dejavu... Just like I'd have written that statement before. Strange.

Maybe I should have asked what are the differences between a race car and a drift car. And why you can't use the existing cars in LFS to drift? And why you need a special "drift car"?

[Ikaponthus]

March Hare,

Mate, I am with you. I feel your pain.

I've asked countless times what's the point of drifting, and so far the best I've got is "fun", and "to see how sideways you can go".

I approached this with an open mind, but I must admit, it does seem a little silly. You can't compare it to painting or race-driving or ice skating. The tools of those trades are made and designed for exactly what they do. Paint-brushes are used to paint, race cars are meant to race and go fast, ice-skates are used for skating.

To me, drifting is taking a car and making it do something it's not supposed to do for fun. Like painting a picture with the wooden end of the paint brush, or having a competition to see who can skid on their ice-skates sideways for the longest, or a form of motorcycle racing where everyone has to drive on the back wheel (for no apparent reason other than "it's fun"). A paint-brush is not supposed to be used back-to-front. Ice skates are not meant for skidding sideways as far as you can. Motorcycles are supposed to be driven on two wheels. A car is not supposed to be driven sideways like that. It's slow, dangerous and damages the car. Yes, it might be fun, I accept that. I even accept it takes some skill. But it's also a bit silly. It seems to me that Drifting is to motor-sports what WWE Wrestling is to full contact sports. Skilfull? sure. Fun? Probably. To be taken seriously? ...hmmmm.

My 2c.

[xaotik]

I've asked countless times what's the point of drifting, and so far the best I've got is "fun", and "to see how sideways you can go".

As far as I see, even though I don't care for drifting, those are valid enough reasons. People often do worse for less reason than that.

To me, drifting is taking a car and making it do something it's not supposed to do for fun. Like painting a picture with the wooden end of the paint brush, or having a competition to see who can skid on their ice-skates sideways for the longest, or singing an opera standing on your head. A car is not supposed to be driven sideways like that. It's slow and damages the car. Yes, it might be fun, but it's also a bit silly.

Luckily for motorsports there was never a moment that a flaming bush talked to a manufacturer or engineer and handed him plaques with the exact way a vehicle should be used by it's owner.

Racing can also damage the car - cars and all machines (and even people) are damaged by usage, it's wear. The amount of wear induced ofcourse will vary, so people who make specific machines for specific tasks take that wear in consideration. Same applies to people who want to do specific activities, they condition themselves for them so they can adapt to the wear they induce.

By your train of thought and reasoning, people are not supposed to climb to the highest mountain peaks, they are not supposed to run for 40km straight, they're not supposed to cycle for 1200km straight, they're not supposed to rig outhouses onto wheeled platforms and have races with them they're not supposed to do a whole lot of things - yet they do them all and add some. People, like all living entities are only actually supposed to stay alive as long as they can and reproduce - those are the only things that're sort of preprogrammed and even they get skipped very often.

Such is the nature of people I guess. Suck it up. :)

EDIT:
As a slight follow up - the wikipedia article on drifting explains what changes are usually made to a car that is specifically used for drifting competitions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drifting_(motorsport)#Drift_tuning - I'm really surprised no one that genuinely wanted answers hasn't done a web search.

[Shotglass]

Well, there's that and the general health considerations, statistically more so for the suicide.

but why would you care about health if youre dead? wouldnt that take a lot of weight from your shoulders as you dont have to worry anymore about food cars and bin laden?
in fact id be doing you a favour in making you life a lot less misserable if i shot you the policemen who want to arrest me the judge and the lawmakers who want to tell me that i shouldnt shoot you (sadly both jesus and emmanuelles **** are dead already so ill have to deal with the stupid ethical crowd they spawned instead of eliminating that problem at its root)

ice-skates are used for skating.

ture in the same way a car is meant for driving but neither are built just for using them in the fastest way possible
skates can be used for going fast in a big circle going fast in a small circle while punching your opponents in the face and going fast in no particular pattern while smacking your opponents in the face with a wodden stick
or (in case youre the kind of person who either has a vagina or enjoys being bummed by fat smelly guys in leather) to jump around aimlessly

yet you wouldnt ever question the legitimacy of either one of these sports

or having a competition to see who can skid on their ice-skates sideways for the longest

being from ireland you probably havent seen frozen lakes in your childhood a lot but back when i was a kid we did that a lot
in fact just 1 or 2 years ago a friend an i spent hours stomping patches of snow into icy surfaces and sliding across them

[xaotik]

but why would you care about health if youre dead?

he statement that filled in for was "There's none [reason for not commiting suicide], other than it's regarded socially as being bad" - and I was merely being a smart-ass pointing out that another reason is that suicide is bad for the suicide's health.

Although being far-fetched and tongue-in-cheek it also appears to be a valid way of thinking of it because it's often fear of death itself or pain that stops people from suicide - which also are two prime incentives for the instinct of survival and maintaining good health.

There, I've just committed jokicide.

[nihil]

I've asked countless times what's the point of drifting, and so far the best I've got is "fun", and "to see how sideways you can go".



Sorry, can't take you seriously. You are simply repeating yourself and show no real interest in discovering anything... I tend to agree that you are simply shit stirring - fortyish posts in one day and you haven't even managed to get a feel for the atmosphere this question generates on this forum? I find that hard to believe.

If it is indeed the case that you are genuinely confused, then may I suggest you use the search function in future. You will discover that there are countless threads on this subject, most of them ending up in stupid and abusive comments. Hence my comment "whatever", meaning I don't really care one way or the other what you consider to be the 'point' of drifting or racing.

I'm just happy that have a preference, and I'm happy that you can find the space to indulge it. I don't see why you cannot do the same, why you feel that someone has to justify their preference to you.

Btw, I'm not a drifter, in fact I'm really, really, really crap at drifting. I enjoy the sport as a spectator, and as much as there are many people on this board who seem to despise the fact that people use LFS to 'drift', my heart sinks at the thought of yet another tosser who is going to spend the time here pontificating on how driving in circles is inherently superior to driving sideways.

Racers, drifters! Get over yourselves. There is no 'point' to any of your activities. I have been into racing since I was a kid; I grew up being transported around the race tracks of Britain and I grew up loving the sport in all its manifestations. But I'm not going to kid anyone into believing that my love of velocity is anything other than a reptilian, animal instinct. It has no point. I love it.

If you feel the need to indulge some kind of sectarian bullshit, then understand that it has no currency with me. If you really want to discover the sport, just watch it, indulge it, experience it. Don't start out looking for a reason not to enjoy it.

/ end of

[Ikaponthus]

xaotik & shotglass,

You appear to have missed the fundamental crux of my argument. Doesn't matter.

Xaotik, I'm comparing the tools, not the goal. You're getting confused.

Shotglass,

Yes, skates are made for skating in big circles or little circles. And I'm sure all the other physical things a skater has to do is taken into consideration when those skates are designed. They would be the most practical tool for those skaters to use.

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do. Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.

Now, from what I can gather so far, both from responses on this forum, and what I have seen of the "sport", I think it's totally fair to say I dislike "drifters". That doesn't mean I don't like them as people. I'm sure many of them are really nice guys. However, I'm not impressed by drifting, it seems infantile and pointless. And I certainly don't like the "bling", "ricer" or "street racer" culture that seems to accompany it, which I find tasteless, try-hard and egotistical. That's fair enough. I'm allowed to dislike something. It's just my personal opinion.

When I started this thread I was reasonable and open minded and hoping for some genuine discussion on the subject as I am willing to concede I may have been mistaken; but nothing I have read so far is doing anything to persuade me that is the case...

[nihil]

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do.

Rubbish.

Cars are designed to slide on their tyres, infact its an inherent property of the material tyres are made from. Not that this is likely to satisfy you.... I'm still wondering why you insist on viewing 'sport' from the point of view of 'practicality'?

[xaotik]

Xaotik, I'm comparing the tools, not the goal. You're getting confused.

All your statements critisized the goal however. And the thread title is about the goal (what is the fascination with drifting) - no mention of tools anywhere (that would be: what is the difference of a drift car versus a racing car).

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do. Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.

Racing is not a practical matter. Nothing in motorsports is a practical matter and nothing in sports in general is a practical matter. It was all initially the passtime/hobby of people who had time (and/or some sort of wealth) at their disposal. Only in recent times have we seen the advent of such individuals as "professional sportsmen" who in all offer ZERO, NADA, ZILCH practical and of actual use yet are worshiped as gods.

Practical consideration = motorized vehicles for the transport of passengers were designed to get you from point A to point B faster than what you would do if you walked for a specific reason, usually relative to your survival, directly or indirectly. Not take you through point A over and over and over again in the case of circuit racing, or from point A to point B just for the sake of getting to point B faster than someone else and at a speed that is usually detrimental to your chances of survival.

Bottom line of my argument: citing "practicality" in such subjects is pointless.

[kamkorPL]

And why you can't use the existing cars in LFS to drift? And why you need a special "drift car"?

You just answered yourself in your own post:

Because the Panda is not really fast nor does it handle very well at speeds?

LFS cars are underpowered for drifting, they need more HP and more NM. They also need to be stripped down. Some more setup options would be welcome too. It's not a matter of wether it is possible to drift them or not.

You really never seen a proper drift car in real life, have you? There's a lot into engine tuning to get as much power as possible out of it. This includes engine swaps too, a lot of work to get right balance etc. Also throttle reaction is very important as well as suspension tuning so the car does go fast trough corners while going sideways(And so it holds angle too). Speed in drift is important, but not for the cost of going with low angle. You actually need as much grip as you can get(example tires: Toyo R888) - ofcourse this depends on how much power you have too. This is a very deep and interesting subject and don't let your ignorancy think

Drifting is also a great motorsport, because it is easier to get into it than in real racing(this depends on a country too ofcourse).

See good example of why you need proper drift car:

http://nismo.1g.fi/kuvat/bigangle2.avi

Ofcourse this course for sure doesn't need as much power as this car has, but this power saved the guy and let him clear the corner with insane angle I believe.

Another good example:

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=cfWQkkKPKyw

The thing is, March Hare - if you think there is so little into making in real life a drift car that can handle going sideways at extreme angle with extreme speed, then how about trying building it yourself.

Some people take drifting in lfs seriously in a way, and I just love showing lfs to a real drifter who knows nothing about LFS. First reaction is how weird lfs is - drifting caterhams? Drifting porsches? Oooo that other car looks like good for drifting(XR GTT). But as soon as they try GTT first response is how underpowered it is and heavy.

This year we will be trying to promote LFS @ driftingo.eu / driftingo.pl / driftingo.de - Last year we organised one event with real prizes, and this year we have a whole season in plans. But it's hard to promote it when we have porsches and caterhams doing battles on screenshots. This just does look weird.

[Ikaponthus]

Rubbish.

Cars are designed to slide on their tyres, infact its an inherent property of the material tyres are made from. Not that this is likely to satisfy you.... I'm still wondering why you insist on viewing 'sport' from the point of view of 'practicality'?

Rubbish? Please explain. To my understanding, tyres are designed to GRIP the road. If they were designed to slide they'd be made of something slippery. Almost everything about a tyre is to do with getting as much grip on the road as possible.

Sure, they can slide - and this can even be advantageous sometimes. But they're not DESIGNED to slide.

As for "practicality" ... hmmm. Well, I don't know. Maybe that's the wrong word. Maybe I am having trouble putting into words what I'm saying. ... drifting just seems "pointless". Other people have said, well, what's the point to anything? And I guess that's a valid argument. Drifting just seems ... I don't know ... silly.

[Ikaponthus]

Racing is not a practical matter. Nothing in motorsports is a practical matter and nothing in sports in general is a practical matter. It was all initially the passtime/hobby of people who had time (and/or some sort of wealth) at their disposal. Only in recent times have we seen the advent of such individuals as "professional sportsmen" who in all offer ZERO, NADA, ZILCH practical and of actual use yet are worshiped as gods.

Practical consideration = motorized vehicles for the transport of passengers were designed to get you from point A to point B faster than what you would do if you walked for a specific reason, usually relative to your survival, directly or indirectly. Not take you through point A over and over and over again in the case of circuit racing, or from point A to point B just for the sake of getting to point B faster than someone else and at a speed that is usually detrimental to your chances of survival.

Bottom line of my argument: citing "practicality" in such subjects is pointless.

Absolute nonsense!

Racing is about getting from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Simple as that. That is a perfectly practical objective. In fact, it's a fundamentally practical exercise!!

What is the point of drifting? Getting from point A to point B as sideways as possible? I don't know. Seriously, it was a genuine question at the beginning. What are they trying to achieve?

[kamkorPL]

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do. Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.

Please..

Cars are made to travel from point A to B.

Race cars are made to race.

Drift cars are made to drift.

Rally cars are made to rally on difficult stages

etc.

And none of those motorsports is practical, and in each motorsport the car does what its designed for.

Also I will repeat something so people get it - you need grip in drift. Grip is your friend.

[xaotik]

As for "practicality" ... hmmm. Well, I don't know. Maybe that's the wrong word. Maybe I am having trouble putting into words what I'm saying. ... drifting just seems "pointless". Other people have said, well, what's the point to anything? And I guess that's a valid argument. Drifting just seems ... I don't know ... silly.

Silly to you. To others it is not. I find collecting things silly and pointless for myself, yet I don't look down on people I know with a stamp collection.

What is the point of drifting? Getting from point A to point B as sideways as possible?

In a nutshell, yes.

I don't know. Seriously, it was a genuine question at the beginning. What are they trying to achieve?

Getting from point A to point B while being as sideways as possible and maintaining as much control of the vehicle in doing so as possible.

[Ikaponthus]

Taking things to the next level (and, in my mind, it's only a very slight difference), what do you think of burnout competitions?

Is a burnout competition a respectable and valid form of motorsport? Or is it making a mockery of serious motoring competition?

[gezmoor]

:really:
Pull your head in. Did you miss this? He seemed genuinely curious to me :shrug:

Believe it or not, it's actually possible that someone on t3h internets didn't know all about dorifto and asked a legitimate question in order to get an understanding of it. Didn't really deserve a smackdown imho.

There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers - especially those answers which don't even answer the question or contribute to the discussion.


Amen to that, I've never seen so much defensiveness and so many ridiculous assumptions made. :( Anyone would think that some people here have a deep down insecurity about their choice of fun. :shrug:

[xaotik]

Taking things to the next level (and, in my mind, it's only a very slight difference), what do you think of burnout competitions?

Is a burnout competition a respectable and valid form of motorsport? Or is it making a mockery of serious motoring competition?

I dislike them because I find them boring.

It very well might be for a given crowd. It involves a motorized vehicle and I assume possibly some form of scoring. I have no idea if they actually have some sort of formal burnout competition rules.

It doesn't make a mockery of anything - it just is. It doesn't make me think any worse of the rest of motorsports because some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while being stationary.

[March Hare]

Now that was what I was after.
Thank you KamkorPL.

I only wish more drifters, and racers, were like you.

[Ikaponthus]

I dislike them.

...

some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while being stationary.

What's the difference?

"Some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while driving sideways very slowly".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNPD9nEPfZo ---> Yay. :really: "Drifting" is really only one very small step up from this IMO. Same ballpark anyway.

[March Hare]

Well you have to admit that drifting takes a whole lot more skill than burnouts.

[xaotik]

What's the difference?

"Some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while driving sideways very slowly".

Since you keep answering yourself I guess I shouldn't aswer, but anyway - here's to the obvious:

In drifting the car is in motion and being actively controlled via steering, braking, gear selection and throttle to maintain an angle through a series of turns often relying on weight transfer (which is taken into consideration by the driver) instead of active and aggressive methods (i.e. handbrake) to initiate the drift - in burnouts the car is just about stationary and controlled via the throttle and brakes mostly to remain stationary and spin for as long as possible without moving (I assume that is the case - I am not sure as to the specifics, and if there are any).

[kamkorPL]

What's the difference?

"Some people, for whatever reason, want to ruin tyres while driving sideways very slowly".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNPD9nEPfZo ---> Yay. :really: "Drifting" is really only one very small step up from this IMO. Same ballpark anyway.

^Demo racer, registered in feb 2008. Simply the guy could be just a flamer. Based on what he says I can't think about it in any other way.

I just hope you will never try going sideways in a car, because this could involve a serious accident if you believe it's a very small step from doing burnouts.

I will give you hovewer a hint for understanding the difference more(IF xaotik answer wasn't enough). Do you know what a weight shift control is?

edit: Ofcourse drifting looks easy as hell if you just watch masters. Here's how not masters do: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=rf9S9EaIuko&feature=related

[W1LLSD4D]

Well you have to admit that drifting takes a whole lot more skill than burnouts.

Drifting :x off topic...

Anyone remember when Top Gear got three rocket scientists (real, proper bona fide rocket scientists with PhDs in Physics & the like) to see if they could do burnouts. iirc only one of the three managed it.

[Ikaponthus]

^Demo racer, registered in feb 2008. Simply the guy could be just a flamer. Based on what he says I can't think about it in any other way.

I just hope you will never try going sideways in a car, because this could involve a serious accident if you believe it's a very small step from doing burnouts.

I will give you hovewer a hint for understanding the difference more(IF xaotik answer wasn't enough). Do you know what a weight shift control is?

edit: Ofcourse drifting looks easy as hell if you just watch masters. Here's how not masters do: http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=rf9S9EaIuko&feature=related

I never said it was easy.

But I will say it's MUCH easier than real racing.

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

I've been playing racing simulators since before Grand Prix Legends and I'm still struggling to become what I would call a good racing driver.

[March Hare]

But IIRC all the grannies could do donuts.

Was it Richard Hammond who couldn't drift when they had those drifters in Top Gear?

[xaotik]

But I will say it's MUCH easier than real racing.

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

Well all's good then, at least now you know that if your racing career doesn't kick off you can always get by with dominating drifting competitions. :)

[kamkorPL]

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

It's same as if anyone said. "I can just regain traction corners and race, not very difficult at all" I will repeat myself from my earlier post.

About the difficulty. I think mastering racing and drifting is both extremely difficult. Mastering racing is going with perfect lines(according to the situation in a race), getting perfect splits, getting perfect laptimes etc. Now while drifting imagine doing a perfect lap each time with maximum possible angles, best lines(super close to the walls etc) and best possible speeds with those lines and angles. In fact, I believe that mastering any kind of motorsport that involves driver a lot is super hard.

Now also imagine doing it perfect on "WR" level in tsuiso, and then with 3 cars train, and then with 4 cars train. There is a difference beetwen "drifting" and "DRIFTING", just like there is a difference beetwen "racing" and truely "RACING".

Hovewer if you believe you can do that easily, then you are more than welcome to dominate drifting competitions with 1st places(when some high-level league or championship starts).

[nihil]

Rubbish? Please explain. To my understanding, tyres are designed to GRIP the road. If they were designed to slide they'd be made of something slippery. Almost everything about a tyre is to do with getting as much grip on the road as possible.

Sure, they can slide - and this can even be advantageous sometimes. But they're not DESIGNED to slide.


But gripping and sliding are simply properties of 'rubber': if a tyre was meant to grip without any form of give, with a clearly defined boundary between 'gripping' and 'sliding', then the tyre would be made of superglue or some other glue derivative.

You are imprisoning yourself within language...

[Ikaponthus]

Well all's good then, at least now you know that if your racing career doesn't kick off you can always get by with dominating drifting competitions. :)

Let's not put words in my mouth. I said it was easier than proper racing, I didn't say I personally could dominate those unique individuals who choose to practise it all the time. I'm sure they can "drift" better than me, and I'm sure I regard that fact with nothing more than slight indifferent amusement.

Fact is that I still find drifting around corners relatively easy. Maybe not to "pro standards", but it's hardly rocket-science. I'm sure you have to have a good feel for weight-transfer and wheel-slip, but these things are just the basics of proper race-car driving.

[jibber]

Now that was what I was after.
Thank you KamkorPL.

I only wish more drifters, and racers, were like you.

There are quite a few of the same kind around i believe. :)

@Ikaponthus:
I think everyone got it now... you think drifting is silly and pointless. Fair enough, that's your opinion. But to me it seems you weren't really that open minded about it from the beginning. Maybe it's just me, but i feel like you just want to argue with everybody who doesn't agree with your views, without actually being open minded about the subject... and that's not really an interesting way of having a discussion about something IMO.

[frokki]

What major modifications does a car need to be a "drift car"?
Apart from having:
Been lowered
Ridiculous amounts of camber
RWD
Dorifto graphics plastered all overAll this you can already do in LFS so why do many people want a "drift car" added to LFS?Apart from the looks (spoilers, bodykits, wheels) maybe wider steering lock, different tire profiles and compounds, a rollcage... :shrug:

[Ikaponthus]

I don't want to argue about it.

I'm happy for you guys to drive your cars around sideways. All the power to you, I wish you much success and enjoyment - just far away from the guys who want to engage in proper racing!

In fact, I'm glad you guys can do it! If you couldn't then LFS wouldn't be the great, realistic simulation that it is! So it's a good thing.

My personal opinion is that it's a bit silly, and I don't like the hyped up "bling" culture that goes along with it. And I'm perfectly entitled to have that opinion. Yes, that was somewhat my opinion when I made the thread, but I was also asking genuine questing, making an honest attempt to understand it a bit better but that achieved little except defensive dummy spitting.

[xaotik]

I was also asking genuine questing, making an honest attempt to understand it a bit better but that achieved little except defensive dummy spitting.

Excellent way of showing respect for the people who actually took time to take it all seriously even though the whole "drift vs race" topic has come up oh-so-many-times in the past, I guess they should of known better. Way to go - very considerate of you.

I just don't get that sort of mentality really and I see it quite often even in my other chosen hobby which is cycling. There the eternal pointless debate is "mountain biking vs road cycling" and again there are flame-baiting attempts from both "sides" that are pursued with such zest that it would put religious zealots to shame. Much like the "cockpit vs chasecam" and the "race vs drift" pseudodebates here (pseudo because they're not really debates - they're just all out bashing threads because quite simply there is nothing to debate) - luckily there hasn't been much time for "circuit vs rally" debates.

The latin saying goes "de gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum" and IMO people should try that more more and not waste their (and other's) time doing the opposite.

Just for the record: I don't much care for drifting competitions.

[atlantian]

Apart from the looks (spoilers, bodykits, wheels) maybe wider steering lock, different tire profiles and compounds, a rollcage... :shrug:
btw, the bigger rims are to reduce side wall and tire flex... the cage is a safety measure

[Shotglass]

he statement that filled in for was "There's none [reason for not commiting suicide], other than it's regarded socially as being bad" - and I was merely being a smart-ass pointing out that another reason is that suicide is bad for the suicide's health.

Although being far-fetched and tongue-in-cheek it also appears to be a valid way of thinking of it because it's often fear of death itself or pain that stops people from suicide - which also are two prime incentives for the instinct of survival and maintaining good health.

There, I've just committed jokicide.

i cant figure out if youre taking it almost too far in messing with me or if you really missed that my tounge is every but as firm in cheek as yours

Yes, skates are made for skating in big circles or little circles. And I'm sure all the other physical things a skater has to do is taken into consideration when those skates are designed. They would be the most practical tool for those skaters to use.

theres nothing practical about going in circles

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do.

a car is designed to drive
driving sideways is just one way to drive

Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.

which is probably the reason why drifters use cars built for drifting instead of ones built for racing

Rubbish? Please explain. To my understanding, tyres are designed to GRIP the road. If they were designed to slide they'd be made of something slippery. Almost everything about a tyre is to do with getting as much grip on the road as possible.

read up on tyre physics before you call other peoples posts rubbish when they are in fact right
aside from being educational it has the added bonus that you wont make yourself look like a complete idiot next time

Absolute nonsense!

right back at ya

Racing is about getting from point A to point B as quickly as possible.

most racing is about going in circles without ever going anywhere in particular

That is a perfectly practical objective. In fact, it's a fundamentally practical exercise!!

on the contrary
going quick enough to exponentially increase the likelihood of never arriving at point b is inherently stupid

Afterall, I drift by accident in LFS and when I muck around testing the physics and just having fun going sideways around the corners is not very difficult at all.

as if going round corners with no line speed or consistency while keeping the car pointing forwards were hard

[xaotik]

i cant figure out if youre taking it almost too far in messing with me or if you really missed that my tounge is every but as firm in cheek as yours

But if I were messing with you would I not attempt to conceal it in a sort of seemingly serious argument? And wouldn't I leave a trace for others who are not biased like you (since you are taking part in the discussion) and thus have a clean slate to construct their thoughts on to pick up on and be amused at the poetic irony of you not realising I was messing with you?

End of Act 5, Scene 6: The Impromptu Soliloquy

[atlantian]

March Hare,

Mate, I am with you. I feel your pain.

I've asked countless times what's the point of drifting, and so far the best I've got is "fun", and "to see how sideways you can go".

well if you ask anyone why they race... it's because it's fun, and they want to see how fast they can go...

and as for practicality...it's simple, you want to get through the track as fast as possible, when you drift, you want to show how much car control you have driving the car past the limit... you are just a bigot, and we all are to some degree, we don't approve of certain things... like how i hate oval racing and croc's...

[JeffR]

If you want my opinion, racing and drifting are two different thing that can't really be compared. It's like saying figure skating shouldn't be at the olympic game because speed skating is way better.Bad analogy. Drifting would be more like ice dancing or curling in the olympics. It should be up there with other popular sports, like ball room dancing, croquet, lawn bowling, shuffleboard, ...

A lot of us have their niche activities. Being in the USA, I've played the usual basketball, football, and some baseball, mostly before graduating highschool. I've driven motorcycles since I was 14 years old (56 years old now). I also have been involved in some "niche" activities: trampoline, flying rings (example video, I could only do double flips, not a quadruple like this guy quad.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/real/quad.wmv)), and table tennis. I'm still drive a motorycle (Hayabusa), and I fly radio control gliders at a local slope site (jr126.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/rc/jr126.wmv)) and at a flat field using a high start (jrartms.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/rc/jrartms.wmv))

[atlantian]

Bad analogy. Drifting would be more like ice dancing or curling in the olympics. It should be up there with other popular sports, like ball room dancing, croquet, lawn bowling, shuffleboard, ...

A lot of us have their niche activities. Being in the USA, I've played the usual basketball, football, and some baseball, mostly before graduating highschool. I've driven motorcycles since I was 14 years old (56 years old now). I also have been involved in some "niche" activities: trampoline, flying rings (example video, I could only do double flips, not a quadruple like this guy quad.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/real/quad.wmv)), and table tennis. I'm still drive a motorycle (Hayabusa), and I fly radio control gliders at a local slope site (jr126.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/rc/jr126.wmv)) and at a flat field using a high start (jrartms.wmv (http://jeffareid.net/rc/jrartms.wmv))
i thought that figure skating WAS ice dancing, but that's all good, cuz, they both require skills...

[JeffR]

i thought that figure skating WAS ice dancingIn ice dancing, there is a pair of skaters, no jumping allowed, no lifts above the waist, no seperation of skaters (except for a few seconds). In the compulsory rounds, all pairs do the exact same ice dance routine to the exact same song. It's amazing that the judges don't go insane from the repetition. It's the equivalent of ballroom dancing, but on ice. Imagine watching and hearing this this 32 times in a row:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCeEr1bU5wI

[atlantian]

In ice dancing, there is a pair of skaters, no jumping allowed, no lifts above the waist, no seperation of skaters (except for a few seconds). In the compulsory rounds, all pairs do the exact same ice dance routine to the exact same song. It's amazing that the judges don't go insane from the repetition. It's the equivalent of ballroom dancing, but on ice. Imagine watching and hearing this this 32 times in a row:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCeEr1bU5wI
meh, still requires more coordination then ice speed skating

[Cash_FLow]

Simple:

Those who can, Race. Those who cannot, Drift.

XD i can race aswell that im able to drift!

[nisskid]

why do people drift? quite simply because it's often more fun.

people get too caught up in the prestige of being fast and forget what going around a corner fast is about, its about adrenaline and having some fun, somthing which drift is able to acheive just as easily if not easier.

at this point i would like to point out that a lot of D1 drivers also race in the national Japanese racing class Super GT, so for those thinking drift doesnt require as much skill, well you are simply wrong.

if you think any old idiot can do things like these then your just plain old ignorant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8-NF7sXgEo

and this isnt restricted to top level competition, this is just a local competition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsTBEXlu_Fg

or even just a practise day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w4bqfGdFLg

or how about even just some locals in the hills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiYqY2MNM54

i have done both in real life, and i definately have taken much more of a liking to drift, simply because of how fun it is and how you can gauge your improvements much easier.

[mrodgers]

I love how everyone is showing drift videos to show how "difficult" it is to drift. The only thing videos show is that cars can go sideways. :shrug:

Plenty of race footage out there of racecars going sideways as well.

[nisskid]

I love how everyone is showing drift videos to show how "difficult" it is to drift. The only thing videos show is that cars can go sideways. :shrug:

Plenty of race footage out there of racecars going sideways as well.
ah, not quite the same there mate, race car may get a bit of oversteer, but he doesnt hold it and link corners with it day in day out does he?

what do you want us to show to show how hard drift is? do u want me to show you how a Australian V8 supercar driver put a car into the wall the first time he tried drifting?

how about this, Tiff Needell, a formula one driver and someone who prides himself on his "drifts" during his show fifth gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCG0CjTvk4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TvSMbetO4U

for a world class driver who powerslides cars every day for his job, took him a lot of runs just to be able to put a run together on a pretty low speed course in a top setup drift car.

fact is, you wont know how hard it is until u do it, and until u do dont talk shit about it, how about we see how you go against some of the top LFS drifters? if its so easy and your such a awesome racer, then you shouldnt have any issues beating them.

[mrodgers]

fact is, you wont know how hard it is until u do it, and until u do dont talk shit about it, how about we see how you go against some of the top LFS drifters? if its so easy and your such a awesome racer, then you shouldnt have any issues beating them.
Wonderful example of the mentality of the "majority" drifting community. I say that all videos do is show how a car is capable of sliding and shows nothing about how difficult it is to drift.

From that simple statement, it becomes that I don't know how hard it is because I've never done it, I talk shit about it, and I've been challenged to go against the top LFS drifters. It seems that I also think that I'm an awesome racer because I make a comment about people showing videos of cars sliding to prove how difficult it is to drift.

In reality, what I am truly failing at is, following the logic of the statement I just quoted up there which is a response to the fact that videos don't show the difficulty of drifting. :shrug:

[Hankstar]

Yeah face it Mike, you got pwnd. For shame. lol

[atlantian]

Wonderful example of the mentality of the "majority" drifting community. I say that all videos do is show how a car is capable of sliding and shows nothing about how difficult it is to drift.

From that simple statement, it becomes that I don't know how hard it is because I've never done it, I talk shit about it, and I've been challenged to go against the top LFS drifters. It seems that I also think that I'm an awesome racer because I make a comment about people showing videos of cars sliding to prove how difficult it is to drift.

In reality, what I am truly failing at is, following the logic of the statement I just quoted up there which is a response to the fact that videos don't show the difficulty of drifting. :shrug:
actually... a good example of a vid that shows behind the scenes of drifting is... drift bible...kinda

[dawesdust_12]

Although it's pretty stupid...
If you turn to the outside of the corner, then quickly turn in, and then apply too much ****ing throttle, you slide...

NO WAI!!!

[atlantian]

Although it's pretty stupid...
If you turn to the outside of the corner, then quickly turn in, and then apply too much ****ing throttle, you slide...

NO WAI!!!
you know you just end up doing a doughnut at the edge of the track if you do that, right?

[dawesdust_12]

Oh really... It's a common drifting maneuver, also rally too I think. Called a Scandinavian Flick.

[deggis]

Tiff Needell, a formula one driver
He only had 1 start in F1, but in sports cars he was more succesful, driving in World Sportscar Championship many years and in 1990 Le Mans he achieved his best result being 3rd. So this classifies him a sports car driver, not F1 driver. Not nitpicking, just a history lesson.

Here's nice video btw:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rBI37-TL1M8

[nisskid]

Wonderful example of the mentality of the "majority" drifting community. I say that all videos do is show how a car is capable of sliding and shows nothing about how difficult it is to drift.

From that simple statement, it becomes that I don't know how hard it is because I've never done it, I talk shit about it, and I've been challenged to go against the top LFS drifters. It seems that I also think that I'm an awesome racer because I make a comment about people showing videos of cars sliding to prove how difficult it is to drift.

In reality, what I am truly failing at is, following the logic of the statement I just quoted up there which is a response to the fact that videos don't show the difficulty of drifting. :shrug:
it was a general statement to anyone that questions how hard drift is, it only relates to you if you share that opinion. how you interpreted my post is up to you, but that wasn't my intention.

its hard for someone such as myself to swallow all the cocky bs surrounded by people who sit on their computers, race in a game and think they are somehow superior. drifters may have a following from a lot of people that share a very immature attitude, but at the same time you have to understand there is as significant proportion of racers which hold this cocky attitude where they think they are superior.

Some of the D1 drifters have been drifting and racing for many decades, just like I'm sure with someone in tuned with racing, who can notice subtle differences in technique and can tell the difference between a good driver and a not so great driver, same with drift, just because all you see is smoke and angle doesn't mean thats all there is to it. it is quite simple, if you do not properly see the skill involved in drifting then you are most likely simply not in tune with what it takes to drift and you will never truly appreciate the sport until you pull your heads out of the clouds and make the effort to truly understand the difficulty and art of drifting.

and yes, to anyone that shares this opinion that drift is easy, i would challenge them to try it, if they don't then what leg do they have to stand on to argue otherwise?

[nisskid]

He only had 1 start in F1, but in sports cars he was more succesful, driving in World Sportscar Championship many years and in 1990 Le Mans he achieved his best result being 3rd. So this classifies him a sports car driver, not F1 driver. Not nitpicking, just a history lesson.

Here's nice video btw:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rBI37-TL1M8
yeh i was aware of that, i just didn't really think anyone would care haha

EDIT: just had a watch of the vid, nice vid.

[JeffR]

My main issue with drifting is that typical compeitions, like F1GP (Japan) or Formula D (USA) consist of only 3 or 4 turns and then the run is over. But then again, I sometimes watch drag racing where there are zero turns (at least not on purpose).

[nisskid]

My main issue with drifting is that typical compeitions, like F1GP (Japan) or Formula D (USA) consist of only 3 or 4 turns and then the run is over. But then again, I sometimes watch drag racing where there are zero turns (at least not on purpose).
and? when u go to see racing u only see 1 or 2 turns max from where ur sitting, these drifters get judged on these corners meaning they go full blown on these corners so for the spectators they get maximum entertainment.

[jonny__27]

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do. Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.




why do you play lfs then?
computers were not originally designed for gaming...

[nisskid]

Drifting is not practical at all. It's forcing a car to do something it's not designed to do. Racing cars are designed to go fast around a track, they're not designed to slide sideways around a track.

cars that come from the factory arnt designed to be pushed to the speeds they are with racing either, that is why you change them and make them go fast, drift cars get modified and tuned so that they are designed to go sideways, they arnt simply race cars that get drifted.

[atlantian]

well, the thing is... people race cars for excitement not for practicality, if you want practicality, then no cars would be high powered... and everyone would be driving smart cars around town...hey, it gets u from point a to b, that's all you need!

[m374llic4]

Easy. It's a car that's modified to perform better in drifing. You could aswell ask what is a drag car, a race car, or ice-cream van.

And on topic, drifting is popular in LFS because it's fun and easy. You can just jump to any server or track with any RWD car and start drifting. No need to practise lines or tweak setups, no need to care what other people do.

That is so inaccurate its not even funny : \

I spent months perfecting my setup with different camber and toe adjustments, tire pressures and gear ratios. If its not cambered correctly when your sliding you dont make full contact with the wheel and you get less control.

Drifting is not easy either, sure you can slide it once or twice then you spin out and stall. Try taking near an entire course in a constant drift. You absolutely have to practice lines as well, you have to know where to enter, at what speed and at what angle so that you can maintain the slide in and out of the turn and then connect it with the next turn.

Sheesh : P people think its just floor it and turn the wheel and see what happens.

[m374llic4]

My main issue with drifting is that typical compeitions, like F1GP (Japan) or Formula D (USA) consist of only 3 or 4 turns and then the run is over. But then again, I sometimes watch drag racing where there are zero turns (at least not on purpose).

Which makes it all the harder, you have to show them everything you got in 3-4 turns, meaning speed, style, angle, all in 4 turns.

[frokki]

. Drifting is not easy either, sure you can slide it once or twice then you spin out and stall.

Sheesh : P people think its just floor it and turn the wheel and see what happens. When was the last time you spinned on your own in LFS? If you have at least a bit of car control skills, you don't spin.

Maybe in real life (noticed that you own a driftable car) drifting is hard, setups matter and so on, but LFS is so forgiving that an experienced player really can just floor it and see what happens.

[flymike91]

Dorifto graphics plastered all over
KING HARE DECREES THAT NO CARS IN ANY MOTORSPORT ARE EVER TO BE PAINTED IN HIS KINGDOM!!
race cars are often painted pretty insanely too brostradamus

[nisskid]

That is so inaccurate its not even funny : \

I spent months perfecting my setup with different camber and toe adjustments, tire pressures and gear ratios. If its not cambered correctly when your sliding you dont make full contact with the wheel and you get less control.

Drifting is not easy either, sure you can slide it once or twice then you spin out and stall. Try taking near an entire course in a constant drift. You absolutely have to practice lines as well, you have to know where to enter, at what speed and at what angle so that you can maintain the slide in and out of the turn and then connect it with the next turn.

Sheesh : P people think its just floor it and turn the wheel and see what happens.
so true. just pushing out the rear is nothing, keeping speed up, controlling the rear end, linking corners, angle etc etc i could go on for ever about the different elements in drift that go into making a decent drifter, once again, unless you drift or follow drift you will never properly understand it and what is involved.

When was the last time you spinned on your own in LFS? If you have at least a bit of car control skills, you don't spin.

Maybe in real life (noticed that you own a driftable car) drifting is hard, setups matter and so on, but LFS is so forgiving that an experienced player really can just floor it and see what happens.
great, u can flick the rear out and make some smoke, congrats, that isnt all drift is about, u simply dont know enough about drift to understand what its really about, so in reality your opinion on the issue is useless.

[kamkorPL]

nisskid: To me it is pretty simple. Every of those who criticize drift and say how easy it is should just post a replay of them doing a very close twin drift with someone on a long track or at least some very good replay. Otherwise what they say is absolutelly worthless.

[frokki]

nisskid: To me it is pretty simple. Every of those who criticize drift and say how easy it is should just post a replay of them doing a very close twin drift with someone on a long track or at least some very good replay. Otherwise what they say is absolutelly worthless.Doing a very close twin drift isn't something one can do without setting up the car or practising lines, nor something you find from average lfs drift server. But I should prolly shut up now, because I don't know enough about drifting.

[kamkorPL]

And I'm not talking about average drifting in lfs. If you have the skill to do it, you should be able to control it easily in a twin drift or train drift. Based on what people say here, it should take max 5 minutes to master it.

Fact is, if you take it down to "nor something you find from average lfs drift server" then the thing is pretty obvious. Anyone can race slow after practice, just like anyone can drift averagely after practice. Don't compare the skill that it takes to race fast to the skill it takes to drift averagely. Compare it to the skill that you need to drift perfect in any situation.

[nisskid]

Doing a very close twin drift isn't something one can do without setting up the car or practising lines, nor something you find from average lfs drift server. But I should prolly shut up now, because I don't know enough about drifting.
no you wouldnt, because they arnt skilled enough yet, because it doesnt take a few days to get to that level, just like you wouldnt expect to go into a race server and find top level drivers eveywhere either.
And I'm not talking about average drifting in lfs. If you have the skill to do it, you should be able to control it easily in a twin drift or train drift. Based on what people say here, it should take max 5 minutes to master it.

Fact is, if you take it down to "nor something you find from average lfs drift server" then the thing is pretty obvious. Anyone can race slow after practice, just like anyone can drift averagely after practice. Don't compare the skill that it takes to race fast to the skill it takes to drift averagely. Compare it to the skill that you need to drift perfect in any situation.
exactly.

[frokki]

Don't compare the skill that it takes to race fast to the skill it takes to drift averagely. Compare it to the skill that you need to drift perfect in any situation.I stick to my point and will compare average drifting on average drift server to average racing on average race server, which of the first one takes 0 minutes to adapt (so you can go sideways through corners to be able to call it drifting) and latter one maybe 10 minutes. (So you can keep up with others to be able to call it racing).

Of course of higher levels of these both forms of motorsport requires higher skill level, but I never claimed it wouldn't :|

[atlantian]

oh, btw, everybody, the drifting you see people do on drift servers are powerslides, those are people practicing initiations and trying to hold it. read drift is where the rear end is loose the WHOLE TIME on the track, they would link everything together, and manji in the straights.

and, btw, a powerslide around a corner is one thing, linking several together is another

[K. Tsuchiya]

Well, the way it looks is though NOBODY thus far that has replied has even come remotely close to even explaining a thing about what drifting really is. The whole concept has been missed and the topic has been turned into another "I LIKE IT", "I DONT LIKE IT" things.

The guy was not asking for eveyone's opinions on this subject, he was asking for an answer. All he got was more reasons to ask questions.


I really would like to explain this to you, I would. But the whole thing would take some time. Not to mention everyones corrections of what I KNOW to be true.

I will send you an IM, i'll try to keep it short, but I know I can at least give you perspective from a RL drifter such as myself. If anyone else here can at least give a small reason why we do this in real life, it might help to shed some light on why we all flock to LFS to practice.

manji???? More like choku-dori.

[atlantian]

Well, the way it looks is though NOBODY thus far that has replied has even come remotely close to even explaining a thing about what drifting really is. The whole concept has been missed and the topic has been turned into another "I LIKE IT", "I DONT LIKE IT" things.

The guy was not asking for eveyone's opinions on this subject, he was asking for an answer. All he got was more reasons to ask questions.


I really would like to explain this to you, I would. But the whole thing would take some time. Not to mention everyones corrections of what I KNOW to be true.

I will send you an IM, i'll try to keep it short, but I know I can at least give you perspective from a RL drifter such as myself. If anyone else here can at least give a small reason why we do this in real life, it might help to shed some light on why we all flock to LFS to practice.

manji???? More like choku-dori.
hey! it's mr. Dori-Dori himself! and he speaks english!
but, i thought that manji= swerving and choku=straightline
and choku dori is where you pull the ebrake on a straight to initiate even before you hit a curve, so that you would be holding a constant angle for a long time...

and manji is where you see cars doing pendulums on the straights

[K. Tsuchiya]

First and foremost, yes it is I the famous DoriDOri himself speaking english and all, 23 years younger and cocky as hell! What up now?!


On a more serious note, I wrote out what I believe to be the best explanation of drifting in and of itself from the perspective of America's Dori-Dori.


There are many reasons one would drift, but, its hard to give a definition when everyone that tried it or even likes it
has got some knowledge about it so I will break it down and tell you why I drift.
I started into the drifting scene at a very young age and never really gave it up. I was fasinated by the way a car can move
and the way it sounds when driven hard. Road racing, grip driving, touring, whatever you want to call it, keeping the back end in
was were I started. I gained more and more ability behind the wheel and Gran Tourismo (1-4) fed the need to enter corners at
100+mph. The all out rush of being on the edge of traction was great and the fact you could get what was more or less
drifting out of a well tuned car was where I was hooked into the sim's for practice time and real crazy speed.
Drifting is not OUT OF CONTROL... its really so far from the truth to say that. Saudi drifters are out of control. Wreckless.
The basis of drifting is holding a slip angle, yes, but that has so little to do with why we do it. The way a car reacts to
input that results in what appears as loss of control is really a whole lot of control being poured into the controls of the
vehicle. The adrenaline rush of entering a corner sideways and knowing you have it all under control is the best feeling in
the world, its right up there with exiting a corner with a slight amount of wheel slip to get MAX acceleration down that final
strait to cross the line and lay down another FAST lap.
I do it in real life because of the feeling. As you would feel hearing a song you wrote, making that goal that wins the game,
or even landing that job you always worked so damn hard for. When your counter steering around a corner and you bump full
opposite lock, that's the moment you worked so hard for.
The feeling you get when you connect 10 corners together and nobody but you saw it... thats the moment that makes it all so
worth it. Drifting is a personal thing. No 2 drift cars are the same, no 2 drivers drive the same, no 2 sessions are the same.
No matter what, the experience is like nothing else. Just as a WR hotlap would be the culmination of so many laps of hard earned
skill.

Drifting Explained as well as I can:
Until the car is near turning backward you can FEEL the angle, how close you are getting to the limit, how far you can go, and not every
corner or every transfer corner to corner will be full lock, or wide open throttle. Its a balancing act. You steer with the
wheel and the pedals. When your at a full turn opposite of the corner and opening or closing the throttle changes the angle
its the balance of steering and throttle/brake that you use to tighten or loosen the angle of the car.
The emergency or side brake is something that is very misunderstood in the drifting world. When you are trying to get a longer
slide into a tight corner you might give it a tug to get sideways, and, when you get the angle balanced out you can give it
another tug and hold it to keep that angle but keep moving strait the way your front wheels are pointed.
Taking away ALL the traction of the rear end when it begins the arc toward the inside of the corner leaves only the fronts to
take up all the duty of steering and angle, your just dragging the back end down into the corner. The less traction the rear has
the more dependent the car will be on steering angle because the rear will have nothing to offer in terms of traction. Allowing
the car to continue in a straiter line since the tires pointing toward the inside are doing notthing.
Its all about the balance of what is available for traction.


Drift car setups are very touchy to even try to explain. Myth number one is you need BIG camber, high power, and even a RWD to
achieve it. FWD setup on the proper tire and wheel sizes can do more than anyone can give credit for. Its all about control,
setup and aftermarket parts only help you tune in the characteristic's you are confortable with.
Grip drivers as some would call it, setup the race car for a certian amound of bump and rebound in the rear to keep the back end
in check. A drifter would tweak that setup a little to give less traction to keep the rear end out. And the whole camber issue,
whoa, now there is a misconstrued ideal. Big camber is for bigger traction at large angles that would normally have a tire at a
+5 degree camber angle during entry. Ever seen a cadillac slide a corner on dry asphalt? Motortrend ran an article some years back that
was accompanied by 2 pictures of a caddie in what they called "oversteer" and that was doing some damage to the alignment, then
the other pic was called so perfectly "psychosteer" where the front left tire was folded under the car and the rim was eating a
very unhealthy amount of asphalt. Big camber means big traction at high G slip angles.



The snow is falling, I have acsess to an AW11 MR2 and a MX83 Cressida .... I'm going to DRIFT!
Be back when the snow goes away and all I have is LFS again to practice.




Yes, dry asphalt indeed is destructive to tires and suspention, seperates seam welds and weakens overall structure, thats probably why most drift cars only last a few years at most. Not to mention all the crashing that seems to happen with everyone else.




****edit, choku means strait, dori means drift, according to you. Doesn't that indeed mean drifting on a strait as the japanese always told me? WTF is manji? I'm gonna go look this one up, here I come wikepedia!


**********EDIT 2

Manji or Choku Dori, means swaying drift or pendulum drift. Ha! Were both right!

[5haz]

The hate of most things, including drifting/racing is often caused by ignorance IMO, those that slag off drifting/racing probrably don't know anything about what they are talking about, therefore they go by well overused stereotypes, coming to the conclusion that all drifters are 11 year old kids that can't drive, plus you don't have to be just a drifter or a racer, can't we be both, or does it satisfy some primitive human need to be in a certain group and slag off the other group in an effort to make yourself feel supierior? Who knows? ;)

I race because I enjoy the rush of getting a lap perfect and getting a new personal best/race win.

I drift because its a rush when you pull off a drift perfectly.

Both racing and drifting require a high level of car control, if you look hard there is nothing wrong with drifting and racing, its just some people love to be snobbish and look down on others, and therefore pick on drifting ;)

What worries me is that theres a class system where certain 'groups' of people are thought by many to be below others by the 'master race' of supposedly supierior racing s2 liscensed users, (a.k.a Drifters/Demo Racers), didnt something similar to this happen in Germany in the 1930's/1940's?? ;)

[atlantian]

@keiichi, nice explanation! and btw, how would you decipher between a long, one angle'd drift to make a dramatic entry into a corner and a series of linked drift that resembles a pendulum?

btw, i just performed highspeed, straightline, all wheel drifts on all the corners of blackwood...:D...i popped all 4 tires after one lap, and destroyed my suspension!

but the thing is i was only provoked into driving this aggressively because i was chasing down a stupid mofo that rammed me in the pits... i got my revenge...muahahahahaha....

[K. Tsuchiya]

Well, there is the reason I went S1 then S2 as soon as I experienced the faceless ramming that goes with the demo servers.

As for the diffrence between choku dori's and sidebraking, well, didn't that just explain them? Far as a diffrence, the side brake entry, vs the choku dori, I am not sure how much further from the same they can get?

I tried to make as much sence of what you said as I could, I understand english is NOT a first language for everyone and that it is very gracious of you all that have learned it to speak it as best as possible. Thanks.

I'm a one trick pony though. I can spot a line great, but, hanging the tail out, abusing my car is what I do best. My brother on the other hand is the one that is the "grip" driver for lack of a better universal term.

My real name is Ben, I'm from the upper midwest and I'm just an average guy with above average talent and knowledge of motorsports. I am far from the best, but, I do well. The whole keiichi thing was a joke among friends back when I first started drifting and has nothing to do with my ability behind the wheel, the name was all for laughs. Kinda stuck with it now, eh?:shrug:




atlantian- "i got my revenge...muahahahahaha...."

Seems to be the first real reason demo users and S2 users dont get along, things said out loud like that.

[atlantian]

^hey! me too!

[JeffR]

To answer the original question, what is the fascination with any activity? Some people are drawn to certain activities, and some of this is because of where they live. I used to play table tennis, which is not very popular here in the USA, but I started playing in college because there were a few good players in my dormitory. I also used to bounce trampoline which is even less popular, but I always had an interested in gymnatics since junior high school, but since I worked during high school, I couldn't participate until college it was too late, so I just messed around with trampoline.

The uppper echelons of any competitive activity may require a lot of skill, but that doesn't make it necessarily interesting viewing to a large audience. Table tennis isn't popular in the USA, and even world wide interest is diminishing. Other than Nascar, drag racing, and the Indy 500, there's very little coverage of auto racing in the USA, and even this represents a small precentage of the viewing audience in the USA.

Dirfting, at least in the USA, is a niche activity, one that isn't destined to have a large audience in the USA. Poker get's more coverage than drifting here in the USA. Bowling is trying to make a comeback with new ownership (3 retired microsoft executives), but I doubt that will happen.

Think of all the events there are in the summer and winter olympics and how many of them would you really find interesting?

[atlantian]

you have to be kidding right??? back then it was drag racing, now it's going to be drifting! it's going to be even bigger then drag racing in the US

[fthsjustin]

i like it all drag/drift/race/streetRacing/streetDrifting ect...

[atlantian]

i like it all drag/drift/race/streetRacing/streetDrifting ect...
what about street ricing?

"oh, yeah! i am starting to feel that fender come off because of my subwoofer's power"

[nisskid]

To answer the original question, what is the fascination with any activity? Some people are drawn to certain activities, and some of this is because of where they live. I used to play table tennis, which is not very popular here in the USA, but I started playing in college because there were a few good players in my dormitory. I also used to bounce trampoline which is even less popular, but I always had an interested in gymnatics since junior high school, but since I worked during high school, I couldn't participate until college it was too late, so I just messed around with trampoline.

The uppper echelons of any competitive activity may require a lot of skill, but that doesn't make it necessarily interesting viewing to a large audience. Table tennis isn't popular in the USA, and even world wide interest is diminishing. Other than Nascar, drag racing, and the Indy 500, there's very little coverage of auto racing in the USA, and even this represents a small precentage of the viewing audience in the USA.

Dirfting, at least in the USA, is a niche activity, one that isn't destined to have a large audience in the USA. Poker get's more coverage than drifting here in the USA. Bowling is trying to make a comeback with new ownership (3 retired microsoft executives), but I doubt that will happen.

Think of all the events there are in the summer and winter olympics and how many of them would you really find interesting?
drift is the fastest growing motorsport at the moment, its a fairly new sport to the media so its obviously not as big as others, but it is growing. you think car racing took off over night?

and i can safely sat 2-5 cars going door to door at 100+kmh's sideways is great viewing. the audiences in America, but more importantly other countries grows by every event, more money is being poored into the sport, some teams over here in Australia have spent near 1million on the sport, id imagine in places like America the bill would be even higher.

[StanleyCarter]

what about street ricing?

"oh, yeah! i am starting to feel that fender come off because of my subwoofer's power"

LoL! Nice post, I laughed hard. :D

[atlantian]

and btw, drifting has the lowest starting budget of all motorsports!

[Gekkibi]

and btw, drifting has the lowest starting budget of all motorsports!

Bull! What about karting?

[StanleyCarter]

and btw, drifting has the lowest starting budget of all motorsports!

Not true at all. (Tires ain't cheap nowadays)

IMO I'd pick autocross for the lowest budget motorsport, you can participate in a stock car if you wish.

[Riders Motion]

Bull! What about karting?

You do know how it cost to run a kart in a series for a whole season, right? You need a truck, a pit crew, fuel, spares, etc. Kart isn't cheap, compared to drifting in which you can still use your car in streets (i.e. Pro-Am) I still think drifting is one of the cheapest motorsports.

[Gekkibi]

You do know how it cost to run a kart in a series for a whole season, right? You need a truck, a pit crew, fuel, spares, etc. Kart isn't cheap, compared to drifting in which you can still use your car in streets (i.e. Pro-Am) I still think drifting is one of the cheapest motorsports.

I have never owned own kart-car (Or whatever it is called), but
1) Old friend of mine owned one back in the 80's. And he wasn't rich.
2) You can always loan a kart-car.

Sure, you can sure loan a drift car also, but I'll bet it is much more expensive than loaning a kart-car. Think it through couple of minutes and you understand why.

[Jakg]

Drifting looks "cool", while racing really only looks interesting with overtaking etc - people who don't understand racing just associate racing with driving like they do on a road but with faster cars. Drifting looks VERY impressive to someone who doesn't really understand basic vehicle dynamics.

[Woz]

I am not a fan of drifting and hate its most visible face, the rice boy street race/drift cnuts. Here the Skyline has the name of clit, because every cnut has one :)

That said, watching people who know what they are doing in a close twin can be great to watch, in short doses.

The reason it is popular and the fasting growing motorsport at the moment is simple, twin battles are short bite sized things that appeal the the short attention span of the MTV generation. To the Y generation something like the 8 hour marvel that is Bathurst is just too long for them, they need the quick fix instant gratification that something like drift gives.

Is it really that hard to understand :)

[nisskid]

and btw, drifting has the lowest starting budget of all motorsports!
and yet they still complain about it! i think because ive had a taste of both sports i have a bit more of a level view of things, but a lot of drifters complain about how expensive the sport it, when in reality racing, even at a low level is more expensive, not only have i found race seems to put more stress on the car, and u see more things fail, but uve gotta factor in brake pads, fluids are more critical, tyres are more expensive, although once you get to a decent level your using chewing through a few pairs of brand new tyres each day.

the thing is, drift is more driver orientated, u see top level drifters out in their daily drivers doing some crazy shit and $20,000 personal cars with 200hp competing against $100,000+ team cars with 1000hp, u dont see the same fine tuning to the extent u see with top level racing and not the same $$ being spent. when drift see's more and more $$ ull see the teams spending more and more $$ and you will see some of the fine tuning, but when it comes down to it the driver will be the main deciding factor.

[nisskid]

I am not a fan of drifting and hate its most visible face, the rice boy street race/drift cnuts. Here the Skyline has the name of clit, because every cnut has one :)

That said, watching people who know what they are doing in a close twin can be great to watch, in short doses.

The reason it is popular and the fasting growing motorsport at the moment is simple, twin battles are short bite sized things that appeal the the short attention span of the MTV generation. To the Y generation something like the 8 hour marvel that is Bathurst is just too long for them, they need the quick fix instant gratification that something like drift gives.

Is it really that hard to understand :)
and this attitude is how racer gangies get the reputation of being stuck up thinking they are superior.

dickheads on the street putting their foot down coming out of a corner is NOT drift. just like you wouldnt classify people who race through the hills or on the street in the same league as circuit racers, or traffic light racers on the same level as proper drag racing, you can find examples of a shitty ricer culture in all motorsports, just as much so if not more than drifting.

also, MTV generation? i dont see what's bad about a sport being more enjoyable to watch, if its more enjoyable to participate in and more enjoyable to watch, what else do you need?

[March Hare]

KING HARE DECREES THAT NO CARS IN ANY MOTORSPORT ARE EVER TO BE PAINTED IN HIS KINGDOM!!
race cars are often painted pretty insanely too brostradamus
LOL!
You sir, are a complete twat. Find me a quote where I ban the use of skins in LfS. Or graphics in any RL motorsport.

I dare you.

I double dare you.

You should really work on your reading comprehension. Way to go :thumb:

[Woz]

dickheads on the street putting their foot down coming out of a corner is NOT drift. just like you wouldnt classify people who race through the hills or on the street in the same league as circuit racers, or traffic light racers on the same level as proper drag racing, you can find examples of a shitty ricer culture in all motorsports, just as much so if not more than drifting.

That is what I am saying. The morons on the road acting like gits is what has given the sport of drifting a bad name. They are the cause of the problems and WHY there is the friction.

For many they hear drift and they just think about the hoons they see around them. Many would not even know that D1GP and the like exist. For them drift = cnuts on he street killing people. Is that hard to understand?

I assume you just saw the name the Skyline has gained and as you have one took offense. Sorry but you have to admit that cars like the Skyline, WRX and Evo attract the wrong sort. Not all owners are like that but that does not matter when it comes to reputation does it, all owners gain the reputation. Does not matter if its fair, thats how society works I am afraid.

also, MTV generation? i dont see what's bad about a sport being more enjoyable to watch, if its more enjoyable to participate in and more enjoyable to watch, what else do you need?

Again, it was not a put down it was saying WHY it is popular because to many it is more easy to get into than an 8 hour enduro race.

I can enjoy watching a good battle or just a good solo drift, as I stated. You have to admit though that the "public face" many see IS the problem and why drift has gained a bad rep. Just like the Skyline for many has a bad rep. Not the cars fault but that is how sterotypes work :)

It will change but its a new sport and this always happens. I was snowboarding from very early days and you should have seen the shite I experienced on the mountain because the association with the majority of boarders which were as much a bunch of young cnuts with no respect for other as the street are racers today.

[March Hare]

Not the cars fault but that is how sterotypes work :)
Exactly the same thing as with Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Drive one and you are instantly seen as a member of a motorcycle gang.

A few bad apples ruining the fun for the rest. But in the case of drifting it's a whole bunch on mindless dorks who ruin it for the few.
Only a few top drifters and millions of teenage dorks doing handbrake turns and power sliding.

The reason racing is not affected as well is the amount of media coverage it gets. You see racing on TV all the time but there is rarely a show about drifting on. So people have a pretty good hunch what racing is about. But drifting "knowledge" comes from the movies.

@K. Tsuchiya
Thank you for the drifting article. That was a good read.

[nisskid]

That is what I am saying. The morons on the road acting like gits is what has given the sport of drifting a bad name. They are the cause of the problems and WHY there is the friction.

For many they hear drift and they just think about the hoons they see around them. Many would not even know that D1GP and the like exist. For them drift = cnuts on he street killing people. Is that hard to understand?

I assume you just saw the name the Skyline has gained and as you have one took offense. Sorry but you have to admit that cars like the Skyline, WRX and Evo attract the wrong sort. Not all owners are like that but that does not matter when it comes to reputation does it, all owners gain the reputation. Does not matter if its fair, thats how society works I am afraid.



Again, it was not a put down it was saying WHY it is popular because to many it is more easy to get into than an 8 hour enduro race.

I can enjoy watching a good battle or just a good solo drift, as I stated. You have to admit though that the "public face" many see IS the problem and why drift has gained a bad rep. Just like the Skyline for many has a bad rep. Not the cars fault but that is how sterotypes work :)

It will change but its a new sport and this always happens. I was snowboarding from very early days and you should have seen the shite I experienced on the mountain because the association with the majority of boarders which were as much a bunch of young cnuts with no respect for other as the street are racers today.
haha yeh, probably could have read it through a bit better. and beleive me, i understand how most imports carry the hoon tag, and for the right reason, i dont whinge or complain that i get stereotyped as a hoon for what i drive as it is justified in a lot of cases unfortunately.

[March Hare]

as it is justified in a lot of cases unfortunately.
Just make sure you yourself don't enforce the stereotype.

[Woz]

haha yeh, probably could have read it through a bit better. and beleive me, i understand how most imports carry the hoon tag, and for the right reason, i dont whinge or complain that i get stereotyped as a hoon for what i drive as it is justified in a lot of cases unfortunately.

Don't worry. I have been writing code for 30 years. I don't even deal with GUI's any more, prefer to work below that level. Because of it I can be very terse and direct with my words. Easy to read what I posted in many ways when I look back at it lol

[nisskid]

Just make sure you yourself don't enforce the stereotype.
mm, i try not to, unfortunately im not going to preach here as im not innocent, but at least when i do go out i go deep into the hills or in the industrials, its a hell of a lot better than doing it around the suburbs and in the city, as far as safety goes as well as giving us a bad reputation, i guess my main issue is people doing it in populated places where people including cops see this behavior and form their opinion of us. around the cityi try and drive as carefully as possible for these reasons as well as the fact that my car is highly defectable.

once again, this comes back to how peoples perception of drifters and imports forms, they see these people in the city revving their engine and putting their foot down out of a corner, this is what the majority sees, these people dont drift, the people that drift are away from populated areas or on the track and are rarely seen by the majority of people. hence people form their opinions based on the wrong people.

[Ikaponthus]

The hate of most things, including drifting/racing is often caused by ignorance IMO, those that slag off drifting/racing probrably don't know anything about what they are talking about, therefore they go by well overused stereotypes, coming to the conclusion that all drifters are 11 year old kids that can't drive, plus you don't have to be just a drifter or a racer, can't we be both, or does it satisfy some primitive human need to be in a certain group and slag off the other group in an effort to make yourself feel supierior? Who knows? ;)

I race because I enjoy the rush of getting a lap perfect and getting a new personal best/race win.

I drift because its a rush when you pull off a drift perfectly.

Both racing and drifting require a high level of car control, if you look hard there is nothing wrong with drifting and racing, its just some people love to be snobbish and look down on others, and therefore pick on drifting ;)

What worries me is that theres a class system where certain 'groups' of people are thought by many to be below others by the 'master race' of supposedly supierior racing s2 liscensed users, (a.k.a Drifters/Demo Racers), didnt something similar to this happen in Germany in the 1930's/1940's?? ;)

Good Post. :thumb:

[kamkorPL]

A few bad apples ruining the fun for the rest. But in the case of drifting it's a whole bunch on mindless dorks who ruin it for the few.
Only a few top drifters and millions of teenage dorks doing handbrake turns and power sliding.

I guess in Finland at nights and days you see tons of mindless dorks handbraking around the corners on streets. That sucks for you man, really. Though here in Poland thank God I don't see it. In fact most drifters go to local legal trainings organised on closed circuits/airports etc. And 90-95% of drivers during events are great/awesome guys. They help each other. They even lend each others cars if one can't compete, because of a mechanical failure. Not to mention lending tires, helping in general etc. It really is a great atmosphere. There are also drivers in poland that came to drifting from rallies/racing and they are doing awesome drifting.

In International Drift Challenge the drivers are awesome and very mature guys(Often old, who are former racers or racing instructors at school, or just plain drivers who try to compete at motorsports. Such a variety of drivers, that's what makes drifting awesome. You don't have to be proffesional to get into it - ofcourse there are licenses like Pro etc. but that's another subject.

Some random pictures of drivers from driftingo.eu site:

http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/8808ec3d598e9755f1cc13f165805616_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/122d38ab8221ddc75efc00cf055df6d6_800_600_w.jpg :D
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/48836fee49fed8e62c8aa4f8e80b11bb_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/5cccd31e0623dd9cf889c547b122dc75_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/3d16843c58440f8ee93cdfe0341e68fd_800_600_w.jpg
shorter url (http://www.driftingo.eu/Engine/base/GenerateThumb.php?file=media%2Fgalerie%2FIDC_HOCKE NHEIMRING_2007%2FA246.JPG&w=800&h=600&exact=w)
shorter url2 (http://www.driftingo.eu/Engine/base/GenerateThumb.php?file=media%2Fgalerie%2FIDC_HOCKE NHEIMRING_2007%2FA270.JPG&w=800&h=600&exact=w)
shorter url3 (http://www.driftingo.eu/Engine/base/GenerateThumb.php?file=media%2Fgalerie%2FIDC_HOCKE NHEIMRING_2007%2FA298.JPG&w=800&h=600&exact=w)
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/7972286b8eb4fb4977f91dcaa89da80e_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/5a01709595f523f20477e778535f25b5_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/c9b5496508551b090312702dc4b35660_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/47b861da00a37e496fae79a4350bf04a_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/6b88b6ba8ed658669d8c1d12b887477d_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/308fca90283650ca1b36d3300dd48a8f_800_600_w.jpg
http://driftingo.pl/__temp__/3856533fff67fca477619fd7f2f289f5_800_600_w.jpg

I think the problem is that people with no knowledge of drifting see someone burning tires or doing a donut and assume that this is "a drifter". But that's not how it is. If you know a bit about drifting and ever been to real event you will easily see a difference beetwen a drifter, and a lame driver.

People seem to see a lame driver and right from the beginning assume it's a drifter.

But tell me March Hare, what is your experience with drifting in real life. Where have you seen drifting so far? Because I just can't imagine this bunch(millions) of mindless dorks, who ruin it for few. It sounds like you saw 90% dorks and 10% drifters. I really can't understand this.
Those arguments that talk about most of drifters being idiots, ruining it for few just seems to me like imagined arguements that are based on 1) imagination, 2) youtube videos, 3) what most lfsforum members say.
I was on many drifting events from summer till fall/winter in different countries like Poland, Hungary, Germany and never saw things being like people who believe in sthereotypes to be.

Please tell me what exactly(facts) your opinion is based on.

[nihil]

Exactly the same thing as with Harley Davidson motorcycles.
Drive one and you are instantly seen as a member of a motorcycle gang.


LOL... This is really all about perspective, because if you were to tell me you ride a Harley, I would immediately picture you as a middle-aged man with a beard, a mortgage, and a slightly embittered view of women that has blossomed since your last failed marriage... an event that probably explains your large country and western CD collection.

Then I would immediately put the image out of my mind, and get on with listening to your REAL story.

I wouldn't introduce myself to you by letting you know what a loser I think you are, nor would I repeat that thought with every attempt to make contact with you.

[atlantian]

I assume you just saw the name the Skyline has gained and as you have one took offense. Sorry but you have to admit that cars like the Skyline, WRX and Evo attract the wrong sort. Not all owners are like that but that does not matter when it comes to reputation does it, all owners gain the reputation. Does not matter if its fair, thats how society works I am afraid.

@kamkorPL (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=8552)
nice drift pics, where are the pictures of the cars drifting?(seems like an afterparty...) and where u in any of the pics?

and @Woz...why did you list 3 AWD TURBOCHARGED vehicles as drift cars? drift cars are Front Engine RWD's and typically start out NA

the skyline has gain a name because it's a great car, it has been used as track cars and race cars, hell, it's even better then the porsches! and the Evo's and STI's are just popular among touge racers because they give monstrous grip compared to other FR's and FF's

people rarely, would destroy a perfectly good car by "unhooking" the front wheels and making it a RWD

[Woz]

and @Woz...why did you list 3 AWD TURBOCHARGED vehicles as drift cars? drift cars are Front Engine RWD's and typically start out NA

I didnt. The Skyline is RWD (In most formats anyway) and is a very popular drift car. And one the whole drifters DO like Turbo cars.

the skyline has gain a name because it's a great car, it has been used as track cars and race cars, hell, it's even better then the porsches! and the Evo's and STI's are just popular among touge racers because they give monstrous grip compared to other FR's and FF's

The Skyline might be a good car, I never said it wasn't, but it gained the name Clit (See earlier post) because of the people it attracts.

I Never said the EVO and WRX were drift cars, I just said that the Skyline, WRX and EVO all have a VERY VERY bad reputation because of the people they attract. You see one on the road and 90% of the time you know it will be some wanabe street racer/drifter cnut behind the wheel.

The "general public" does not care if these poeple are drifters or street racers, they see them all the same. A bunch of cnuts with no respect for other people putting other peoples lives at risks.

:)

[atlantian]

okey, fine i ment that power is good, but it's not the first mod you would do to your car if you want to drift. and i ment the GTR, sorry.

and off topic, please don't use the c-word so freely, it is a very effective swear word, because barely anyone uses it, and the less someone uses the word, the more offensive it becomes, we want to keep it offensive so that we would have an "emergency" word to fall back on, if you would... the more you use it, the more it becomes acceptable, and then... you will have to start making up swears, like "jibber-jabby" or "fu*k-head" or "head-fu*k"

[Töki (HUN)]

I guess in Finland at nights and days you see tons of mindless dorks handbraking around the corners on streets. That sucks for you man, really. Though here in Poland thank God I don't see it. In fact most drifters go to local legal trainings organised on closed circuits/airports etc. And 90-95% of drivers during events are great/awesome guys. They help each other. They even lend each others cars if one can't compete, because of a mechanical failure. Not to mention lending tires, helping in general etc. It really is a great atmosphere. There are also drivers in poland that came to drifting from rallies/racing and they are doing awesome drifting.

In International Drift Challenge the drivers are awesome and very mature guys(Often old, who are former racers or racing instructors at school, or just plain drivers who try to compete at motorsports. Such a variety of drivers, that's what makes drifting awesome. You don't have to be proffesional to get into it - ofcourse there are licenses like Pro etc. but that's another subject.

Some random pictures of drivers from driftingo.eu site:

http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/8808ec3d598e9755f1cc13f165805616_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/122d38ab8221ddc75efc00cf055df6d6_800_600_w.jpg :D
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/48836fee49fed8e62c8aa4f8e80b11bb_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/5cccd31e0623dd9cf889c547b122dc75_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/3d16843c58440f8ee93cdfe0341e68fd_800_600_w.jpg
shorter url (http://www.driftingo.eu/Engine/base/GenerateThumb.php?file=media%2Fgalerie%2FIDC_HOCKE NHEIMRING_2007%2FA246.JPG&w=800&h=600&exact=w)
shorter url2 (http://www.driftingo.eu/Engine/base/GenerateThumb.php?file=media%2Fgalerie%2FIDC_HOCKE NHEIMRING_2007%2FA270.JPG&w=800&h=600&exact=w)
shorter url3 (http://www.driftingo.eu/Engine/base/GenerateThumb.php?file=media%2Fgalerie%2FIDC_HOCKE NHEIMRING_2007%2FA298.JPG&w=800&h=600&exact=w)
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/7972286b8eb4fb4977f91dcaa89da80e_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/5a01709595f523f20477e778535f25b5_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/c9b5496508551b090312702dc4b35660_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/47b861da00a37e496fae79a4350bf04a_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/6b88b6ba8ed658669d8c1d12b887477d_800_600_w.jpg
http://www.driftingo.eu/__temp__/308fca90283650ca1b36d3300dd48a8f_800_600_w.jpg
http://driftingo.pl/__temp__/3856533fff67fca477619fd7f2f289f5_800_600_w.jpg

I think the problem is that people with no knowledge of drifting see someone burning tires or doing a donut and assume that this is "a drifter". But that's not how it is. If you know a bit about drifting and ever been to real event you will easily see a difference beetwen a drifter, and a lame driver.

People seem to see a lame driver and right from the beginning assume it's a drifter.

But tell me March Hare, what is your experience with drifting in real life. Where have you seen drifting so far? Because I just can't imagine this bunch(millions) of mindless dorks, who ruin it for few. It sounds like you saw 90% dorks and 10% drifters. I really can't understand this.
Those arguments that talk about most of drifters being idiots, ruining it for few just seems to me like imagined arguements that are based on 1) imagination, 2) youtube videos, 3) what most lfsforum members say.
I was on many drifting events from summer till fall/winter in different countries like Poland, Hungary, Germany and never saw things being like people who believe in sthereotypes to be.

Please tell me what exactly(facts) your opinion is based on.

Polish drifters are well-skilled I have to say. Do you know any of the Hungarian ones? POL-HUNs used to drift in one series, such as KoE ( King Of Europe) Europeans will quickly keep up with the Japos:nod:

[Woz]

okey, fine i ment that power is good, but it's not the first mod you would do to your car if you want to drift. and i ment the GTR, sorry.

and off topic, please don't use the c-word so freely, it is a very effective swear word, because barely anyone uses it, and the less someone uses the word, the more offensive it becomes, we want to keep it offensive so that we would have an "emergency" word to fall back on, if you would... the more you use it, the more it becomes acceptable, and then... you will have to start making up swears, like "jibber-jabby" or "fu*k-head" or "head-fu*k"

No worries. I ended up having to use because it was required to highlight why the name was such. Prob ended up using more than should have :)

[nisskid]

@kamkorPL (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=8552)
nice drift pics, where are the pictures of the cars drifting?(seems like an afterparty...) and where u in any of the pics?

and @Woz...why did you list 3 AWD TURBOCHARGED vehicles as drift cars? drift cars are Front Engine RWD's and typically start out NA

the skyline has gain a name because it's a great car, it has been used as track cars and race cars, hell, it's even better then the porsches! and the Evo's and STI's are just popular among touge racers because they give monstrous grip compared to other FR's and FF's

people rarely, would destroy a perfectly good car by "unhooking" the front wheels and making it a RWD
most drift cars are FR, most probably start out turbo when u consider most are turbo imports, theres still actually quite a few drift cars that started AWD, such as the evo, subby, even a few GTR's going around, all converted to RWD obviously, especially in D1 where the rules restrict AWD cars. theres actually a GTR currently being pulled apart and made into a drift car for our national comp over here, but usually u just see them stick with the GTS-t and put a bigger RB in them, once u have a RB25+ in a GTS-t, theres not much point using a GTR instead for drift as ull pay near double for the GTR and you will have to do more work to take out the front drive.

[flymike91]

You should really work on your reading comprehension. Way to go :thumb:
Its called sarcasm....:really: you of all people should understand it, but I understand english may not be your first language.

I don't see any difference between so called "dorifto" graphics and regular racing liveries but apparently our views are very very different. I don't need to be double dared to find many posts of yours full of condescending remarks towards...pretty much everybody who doesn't agree with King Hare.

[atlantian]

btw, i would think that AWD "fad" drift cars are restricted to top level competitors, since, why the hell would you pull apart a perfectly amazing[-ly expensive] sports car if you are "just a guy"?

[March Hare]

Please tell me what exactly(facts) your opinion is based on.
My experience with drifting is limited to the following:
Icy carpark in the middle of the night over 10 years ago. The handbrake and power slide thingy which really isn't drifting but what very many youngsters do and call drifting. Though then it was only called having fun. None of us even knew there was something called drifting.
Watching Initial D. This is the first time I came to know the term "drifting".
Got myself the Keichi Tsuchiyas Drift Bible. Thoughts at the time of seeing were: Oh shit! You have to learn the racing line to do this properly.
Trying desperately to drift in LFS. Yes, I can go sideways but the control isn't there. I do save myself from time to time with a "drift" as I tend to overshoot my braking points.My antipathy towards some elements of the drift community have risen from:
Countless threads about wanting a "drift car" added to lfs. You can drift any car with minimal mods. LSD being the most important. Lo and behold! LfS already has LSD!
Countless threads about NOS, bodykits, wings etc. I think the only really good Impr.&Sugg. thread related to drifting was the 45 degree steering lock one. At first I was like "what for?" then after your post detailing the reasons I was for it. Then some dork (a demo drifter iirc) started spoutin some insults and the like and I changed my mind.
The constant bickering about whether drifting is racing or "just" a motor sport. Yes the racers that take part in these are just as stupid. Me included. If someone thinks it's not racing then why do you care? Many of you say you do it for the fun. Have fun and don't give a -uck about what other people think. Some people think playing computer games for fun is stupid. Some think that driving RC cars is stupid. Yes, so? I think both are fun and I don't give a fetid dingo's kidneys what you think about it.
Many drifters are always on the offencive if anyone dares to question their über 1337 skillz. Even if someone asks a perfectly legitimate question.Then I would immediately put the image out of my mind, and get on with listening to your REAL story.
Exactly! You would do that but many don't.
For the record I don't have a HD or any other motorcycle. I just like a vehicle to have atleast four wheels.

I don't see any difference between so called "dorifto" graphics and regular racing liveries
Read the following sentence and make sure you comprehend it too:
Neither do I.


Post too long to root out typos and grammar errors.

[Ikaponthus]

I think it's perfectly legitimate to not like drifting.

In my opinion it's just a bit silly and immature. But more off-putting than that, is the whole "bling bling" fast'n'furious culture the surrounds the "sport" too. That crap is so far removed from real driving and real racing it's not funny.

However that doesn't mean I dislike all "drifters". I dislike what they do, but I'm sure many of them are nice blokes and we could be friends. I accept that different people like different things.

I don't mind "drift" related stuff being included in Live for Speed either as long as it doesn't impact on the serious-racing aspects of the simulator.

Each to their own, and I can understand the appeal to a limited degree. I like to do burnouts and doughnuts too when I'm bored (which I know is much easier than so called "pro drifting"), but it holds my attention for about fifteen seconds. Drifting is only mildly more impressive IMO. Each to their own. I'm not going to pretend to like it or pretend I find it impressive. I don't. But I also don't care if people do it in LFS or even in real life as long as they don't do it on the streets, in which case they're effing idiots.

I think that's fair.

[RocksGt]

Ok guys... nice to read all that stuff but I think you're not getting to the root of the question so here we go: The real fascination with drifting is this :nod:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108212425/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108212326/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108213355/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108213355/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/Fast%20and%20the%20Furious%20Tokyo%20Drift/44896aad77e36_tokyo_drift_purple_babe2.jpg
http://www.toysnjoys.com/dvds/fireitup.jpg

I think is a bit fascinating, isn't it? :shrug:

[kamkorPL]

March Hare (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=132527): I am speechless now that you said what your dislike is based on. I am very speechless. Your whole idea of disliking drifters is often based on immature kids responses on lfsforum and is purely based on internet. I'm sorry to say it and don't feel offended, but this is just ridicilous. :shrug:

[Gekkibi]

Ok guys... nice to read all that stuff but I think you're not getting to the root of the question so here we go: The real fascination with drifting is this :nod:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108212425/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108212326/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108213355/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108213355/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/Fast%20and%20the%20Furious%20Tokyo%20Drift/44896aad77e36_tokyo_drift_purple_babe2.jpg
http://www.toysnjoys.com/dvds/fireitup.jpg

I think is a bit fascinating, isn't it? :shrug:

Indeed. Same thing with tuning (I guess tuning and drifting goes hand in hand...), for example GTi-magazine: Full of half-naked women. If I am going to buy a car related magazine, I do want to see cars, not hookers... Same thing with car events.

[nisskid]

I think it's perfectly legitimate to not like drifting.

In my opinion it's just a bit silly and immature. But more off-putting than that, is the whole "bling bling" fast'n'furious culture the surrounds the "sport" too. That crap is so far removed from real driving and real racing it's not funny.

However that doesn't mean I dislike all "drifters". I dislike what they do, but I'm sure many of them are nice blokes and we could be friends. I accept that different people like different things.

I don't mind "drift" related stuff being included in Live for Speed either as long as it doesn't impact on the serious-racing aspects of the simulator.

Each to their own, and I can understand the appeal to a limited degree. I like to do burnouts and doughnuts too when I'm bored (which I know is much easier than so called "pro drifting"), but it holds my attention for about fifteen seconds. Drifting is only mildly more impressive IMO. Each to their own. I'm not going to pretend to like it or pretend I find it impressive. I don't. But I also don't care if people do it in LFS or even in real life as long as they don't do it on the streets, in which case they're effing idiots.

I think that's fair.
god your so far from anything remotely resembling truth I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry, i saw your intro thread and thought you seemed like a good bloke, but you certainly are the epitome of ignorance when it comes to this subject.



also, if i read correctly you're coming back to Australia soon? if so throw me a PM and i will let you know about the next drift event in your local area, you will pay between $10-$20 entry, but i beleive it will change your view forever on the sport.

[nisskid]

Ok guys... nice to read all that stuff but I think you're not getting to the root of the question so here we go: The real fascination with drifting is this :nod:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108212425/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108212326/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108213355/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/calibre68/108213355/in/set-72057594075505709/
http://www.moviesonline.ca/movie-gallery/albums/Fast%20and%20the%20Furious%20Tokyo%20Drift/44896aad77e36_tokyo_drift_purple_babe2.jpg
http://www.toysnjoys.com/dvds/fireitup.jpg

I think is a bit fascinating, isn't it? :shrug:
omg, models in motorsport??? unheard of!!! :O

[Ikaponthus]

god your so far from anything remotely resembling truth I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry, i saw your intro thread and thought you seemed like a good bloke, but you certainly are the epitome of ignorance when it comes to this subject.

Geez. What do you want me to say? I don't like it, it simply doesn't appeal to me. Sorry. Like I said in my post that is "so far from resembling truth", That doesn't mean I don't like other people who like drifting. I'm sure they're great guys. Not my cup of tea. No offence! How can my post not resemble truth? It's just my opinion and I assure you it's true!

also, if i read correctly you're coming back to Australia soon? if so throw me a PM and i will let you know about the next drift event in your local area, you will pay between $10-$20 entry, but i beleive it will change your view forever on the sport.

Zero interest mate. Thanks anyway. You knock yourself out. :)

[5haz]

I must add, I have no problem with people disliking drifting, just as long as they have a valid reason why, not just because theyve been lead by all the stereotypes.

Sadly, due to the efforts of the creators of Fast 'n' Furious, and EA Games, the majority of people now think all drifters are also wannabe gangsters, shame :(

[nisskid]

Geez. What do you want me to say? I don't like it, it simply doesn't appeal to me. Sorry. Like I said in my post that is "so far from resembling truth", That doesn't mean I don't like other people who like drifting. I'm sure they're great guys. Not my cup of tea. No offence! How can my post not resemble truth? It's just my opinion and I assure you it's true!



Zero interest mate. Thanks anyway. You knock yourself out. :)
no sorry, your post went further than simply describing your preference.

In my opinion it's just a bit silly and immature. But more off-putting than that, is the whole "bling bling" fast'n'furious culture the surrounds the "sport" too. That crap is so far removed from real driving and real racing it's not funny.

I don't mind "drift" related stuff being included in Live for Speed either as long as it doesn't impact on the serious-racing aspects of the simulator.

Each to their own, and I can understand the appeal to a limited degree. I like to do burnouts and doughnuts too when I'm bored (which I know is much easier than so called "pro drifting"), but it holds my attention for about fifteen seconds. Drifting is only mildly more impressive IMO.
in this post you lumped drifting with Fast and the Furious and donuts and burnouts. what can i say but that donuts are as much a part of racing as drift, watch nascar, hell watch F1, what do they do after they win an event? they do a donut? mm well thats about the same resemblance a donut has to racing as a donut has to drifting, i hardly think drifting around a corner at 100kmh's+ is similar to turning the steering wheel full lock and dropping the clutch in a circle.

fast and the furious? i could be wrong but i beleive the first movie was based around drag racing, and the 2nd was was based around street circuit racing, it was only until the 3rd one until they even touched on drifting. mm so fast and the furious focused on drag racing and grip racing before drift, yet somehow F&F is only associated with drift? mm strange...

dont want drift to affect the serious aspects of the game as a simulator? correct me if im wrong but it simulates driving, drift is one aspect of driving, just like race is another.

also, i think at this point, i should point out that this refusal to go watch a drift event displays the close mindedness that people like yourself are renown for. it comes down to "you will never know if you never go", if you are not willing to go and see drift, you will never know what its all about. until that time you struggle to hold any credibility in my mind.

[K. Tsuchiya]

I finally have it. The reason that drifters are disliked more than anything.

In the world of motorcycle riders there are a few groups, of course the harley guys are one of them and living 200 miles from Milwaukee, yeah, the old harley plant is there, I see plenty of them.


There is what we called Bikers, as described before under harley rider. And the professional attitude of the lifestyle, the Motorcyclist. I am of the latter and lately have been dealing with an influx of clowns with little to no riding ability or talent what-so-ever. These idiots call themselfs "stunters".

They wreck nice bikes, dont wear proper gear, talk all kinds of garbage, and generally give riding a worse name than any harley rider could or would.



It seems our friend here considers drifters to be about the equal to stunters. A bunch of one trick clowns that belong under a circus tent rather than on the local track or back road. I see why.


My arguement to it is that the guys that call themselfs Pro in the stunt world, they are damn good, because they moved to stunt riding from racing for more of a personal best rather than battle the pack. Of course Mat Mladin is not gonna go stunting because he is getting bored with the SBK. But the guy we know as Ghost Rider started out on the track too. Patrick Furstenhoff was quite the racer before the films he made and you see a little stunting in some of those too.


More reason to my chosen name on here is the fact that Tsuchiya himself was a very avid racer before he retired some years back and has involved himself more in the drifting scene.

Ueo, the guy from D1 with a Groupe A derived engine in his AE86 dropped from the roster a few years back because he was loosing his ability to use his peripheral vision in the competition aspect of drifting, so, he went back to clubman racing for a season to brush up on his skill. Went back to the D1 and took the whole championship with the mighty Corolla.



Drifting is a lateral move for professionals that have it all. I fully understand your disinterest in attending a track day, but, if you ever get a chance to talk to a professional racer, that also drifts, you may get the reason for drifting that your looking for.

[nisskid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oOLQ5fyzLI

V8 supercars racer trying to drift haha, apparently not as easy as he thought it would be.

[kamkorPL]

I but, if you ever get a chance to talk to a professional racer, that also drifts, you may get the reason for drifting that your looking for.

In IDC Yokohama Drift Fest in november at Hockenheim while I was recording on camera a talk beetwen Tomasz Kozlowski and proffesional racer from NL - Remmo Niezen, Remmo Niezen said that he tried it once and became a drift addict instantly.

Also check out Team Falken drivers, Tim Coronel (http://www.s14trackedition.nl/falken/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16&Itemid=0), Tom Coronel Sr. (http://www.s14trackedition.nl/falken/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=23&Itemid=0) and all 4 drivers page: Here (http://www.s14trackedition.nl/falken/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26)

Yeah, wings on their cars are insanely huge, they are so big you could literally take a nap on them ;)

I'm actually suprised that some of us try to convince people, who don't like drifting to like it, while their opinion is based on purely on lfsforum posts, movies or other things(like sthereotypes) that have not much to do with real life. Maybe it's better to not convince that crowd, will be better if they never experience drifting first hand and stay in their closed-minded world.

[atlantian]

isn't rhys millen a rally driver turned drifter?

[nisskid]

isn't rhys millen a rally driver turned drifter?
yep

[flymike91]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oOLQ5fyzLI

V8 supercars racer trying to drift haha, apparently not as easy as he thought it would be.
omg what car is that its really cool looking. Is it an australian ford?

[nisskid]

omg what car is that its really cool looking. Is it an australian ford?
yeh, ford typhoon (based off the falcon) 4.0ltr straight 6 turbo, awesome performing car, a little bit faster all round than the V8 models.

the car was actually created specially by a division within FPV for drifting, due to some bs it never really got to do much drifting, and now it spends most of its time at shows etc.

[March Hare]

In the end he managed to drift it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3MH1febavY
Or was it another driver?

@KamkorPL
Not offended. You do realise that you and K. Tsuchiya are making me see drifters in a different light. You guys are the first ones ever to try to explain the meaning and motivation behind drifting.

Thanks to you I burned my rear tyres on the CTRA Race 2 yesterday. :really:

[nisskid]

In the end he managed to drift it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3MH1febavY
Or was it another driver?

@KamkorPL
Not offended. You do realise that you and K. Tsuchiya are making me see drifters in a different light. You guys are the first ones ever to try to explain the meaning and motivation behind drifting.

Thanks to you I burned my rear tyres on the CTRA Race 2 yesterday. :really:
i beleive the person driving the DRIF6 there was the designated driver for the car, the supercar driver was only driving it for promotional purposes.

this is a better video of the car being driven with a proper drifter in it at mallala: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a47M8t8Tm5Q

[Ikaponthus]

no sorry, your post went further than simply describing your preference.

Yes, it also described why I have that preference. What's the big deal?


in this post you lumped drifting with Fast and the Furious

So? Like it or lump it, that kind of "street racer kid" is the type of person attracted to drifting. Sure I believe there are other types of people that like drifting too, and I'm sure they're nice blokes. But the stereotype exists for a reason.

and donuts and burnouts. what can i say but that donuts are as much a part of racing as drift, watch nascar, hell watch F1, what do they do after they win an event? they do a donut? mm well thats about the same resemblance a donut has to racing as a donut has to drifting, i hardly think drifting around a corner at 100kmh's+ is similar to turning the steering wheel full lock and dropping the clutch in a circle.

Be aware it's not "drifting" that I dislike. I love WRC Rally etc. and in a way you could say they do a lot of "drifting". The two things I don't like are the culture that comes with drifting (and yes, that is a bling bling 19yo fast'n'furious culture whether you like it or not) and also that it's just pointless. To me, my personal view, it's just some guys who have made an art form out of driving like an idiot in a street car (sideways around every corner on tarmac). Thus the burnout comparison. It's just glorified, institutionalised auto-hooliganism. I can understand why they get a rush out of it, but I don't like it personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uitHW6WKUQ Idiots.:really:

This type of shit is just moronic. Firstly, it's only public streets. Secondly, can you imagine people having their stereo blasting during any other "serious" motorsport? Thirdly, are you honestly trying to tell me the street racer culture is not part of drifting? They actually seem proud to have ruined their tyres. LOL.

fast and the furious? i could be wrong but i beleive the first movie was based around drag racing, and the 2nd was was based around street circuit racing, it was only until the 3rd one until they even touched on drifting. mm so fast and the furious focused on drag racing and grip racing before drift, yet somehow F&F is only associated with drift? mm strange...

You're not seriously trying to suggest that this kind of culture has not attached itself to the "drifting" scene or visa versa? ... as compared to say, F1 racing, NASCAR, WRC or even high octane drag racing. Seriously? For better or worse, whether you like it or not, the fact is that silly type of street racer culture is part of drifting (or visa versa).

Type in "drift racing" in YouTube. This is the No.1 hit. No sign of the fast'n'furious culture, right? :really:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMeSIcYeLyo


dont want drift to affect the serious aspects of the game as a simulator? correct me if im wrong but it simulates driving, drift is one aspect of driving, just like race is another.

I don't mind drifting being in the game as far as "real cars can drift, so if it's a real simulator, these cars should be able to drift too", but leave it at that. I hope they don't do anything to encourage it. My hope is that this will be a pure, unadulterated racing simulator. "Drifting" is a fringe motor-sport, if you can even call it a "sport".

also, i think at this point, i should point out that this refusal to go watch a drift event displays the close mindedness that people like yourself are renown for. it comes down to "you will never know if you never go", if you are not willing to go and see drift, you will never know what its all about. until that time you struggle to hold any credibility in my mind.

Some of the users here posted plenty of YouTube videos that I gladly watched. That's enough. I got the idea. Just like I don't have to buy a model train set and spend five hours watching them drive around on a model set to know that's not my cup of tea, I don't have to go and watch a bunch of guys slowly drive around a track sideways to know that's not my scene either. Thanks for the offer.

Seriously, each to their own. If you like it then great, and I don't hold that against you at all unless you try and do it on public roads. After giving it genuine consideration, I just don't like it and there's many valid reasons I have come to that personal conclusion.

[nihil]

and off topic, please don't use the c-word so freely, it is a very effective swear word, because barely anyone uses it, and the less someone uses the word, the more offensive it becomes, we want to keep it offensive so that we would have an "emergency" word to fall back on, if you would...

LOL... You know, despite the reputation you've gained on here for being a bit of a klutz, I'm really beginning to enjoy your posts...


For the record I don't have a HD or any other motorcycle. I just like a vehicle to have atleast four wheels.


Coming to enjoy your posts too...



BUT...





I think it's perfectly legitimate to not like drifting.

In my opinion it's just a bit silly and immature. But more off-putting than that, is the whole "bling bling" fast'n'furious culture the surrounds the "sport" too. That crap is so far removed from real driving and real racing it's not funny.


Geez. What do you want me to say? I don't like it, it simply doesn't appeal to me.


After giving it genuine consideration, I just don't like it and there's many valid reasons I have come to that personal conclusion.

You on the other hand are just a pain in the arse. OK, we get it. You don't like it, so STFU.

You plainly have nothing of interest to say on the matter

[Ikaponthus]

You on the other hand are just a pain in the arse. OK, we get it. You don't like it, so STFU.

You plainly have nothing of interest to say on the matter

I was answering another poster. Is that not allowed?

You're clearly just offended by my opinion which is the silly type of behaviour that makes people dislike "drifters".

People ask why I or others don't like drifting, complain about us not liking drifting, claim we don't understanding it or not giving it a chance. So I make an effort to validate my reasons and tell you the reasons behind my opinions. You should not get offended and defensive about it! Just accept it. It's not a personal insult to you.

If you engaged in a discussion about open-wheel circuit racing and told me you didn't like it much and validated your reasoning I wouldn't hold it against you. Each to their own.

[nihil]

You're clearly just offended by my opinion which is the silly type of behaviour that makes people dislike "drifters".


I'm just exasperated. I'm not even a drifter! Its fine to express your opinion, but just to say over and over again that you think something is silly, is just.... weird... obsessive... frankly, uncomfortable to sit and read without making an intervention.

I'm sorry to be saying this to someone new to the forum... I'm usually quite tolerant, but fellah, you are really in a rut.

[Ikaponthus]

You're not being fair at all. Go back the last few pages and read my posts. The big long one on this page is just directly responding to one person's post. Other than that I've made only 3 or 4 posts in the last four pages and haven't said anything of consequence apart from encouraging people to accept that everyone likes different things.

The real thing that is annoying you is that you don't like my personal opinion.

[nihil]

The real thing that is annoying you is that you don't like my personal opinion.

Don't even begin to assume anything about me... You will most likely be wrong. Continue by PM if you wish

[March Hare]

Coming to enjoy your posts too...
Oh crap! I must be doing something wrong then.

[nihil]

Oh crap! I must be doing something wrong then.

LOL... Damn right you are - time to lose a couple of wheels and learn to enjoy the true meaning of 'counter-steer'. Get thyself a motorcycle.

[March Hare]

I have a bicycle. Will that do?

My sisters boyfriend has a motorcycle. I think it's a kamikaze something or other.

Besides I don't have the license to drive one. I have a license to drive a car a lorry or even a semi but not a itsy bitsy bike. Yay for the Finnish legistlation!

[Ikaponthus]

Don't even begin to assume anything about me... You will most likely be wrong. Continue by PM if you wish

LOL. No thanks. :smileypul

[nisskid]

So? Like it or lump it, that kind of "street racer kid" is the type of person attracted to drifting. Sure I believe there are other types of people that like drifting too, and I'm sure they're nice blokes. But the stereotype exists for a reason.

Be aware it's not "drifting" that I dislike. I love WRC Rally etc. and in a way you could say they do a lot of "drifting". The two things I don't like are the culture that comes with drifting (and yes, that is a bling bling 19yo fast'n'furious culture whether you like it or not) and also that it's just pointless. To me, my personal view, it's just some guys who have made an art form out of driving like an idiot in a street car (sideways around every corner on tarmac). I can understand why they get a rush out of it, but I don't like it personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uitHW6WKUQ Idiots.:really:

This type of shit is just moronic. Firstly, it's only public streets. Secondly, can you imagine people having their stereo blasting during any other "serious" motorsport? Thirdly, are you honestly trying to tell me the street racer culture is not part of drifting?

street racer culture is in every motorsport, are you genuinely this ignorant? where do you think racing originated? where do you think drag racing originated, its only fitting this is where drifting originated as well.

i can guarentee you there are a lot more young "street racer" idiots out there racing on the streets and through the hills than drifting in them, guarentee, this is what i see. do we stereotype these people with circuit racers? hell these people are the worst if anything, they have no skill, they've spent all their money on their sound system and then they go through the hills as fast as they can, most people dont have the balls to throw their car sideways in the hills.

would you consider these people in the same category as circuit racing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y10ulifFUUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D6HXocBFlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JExAS3t42oA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S4OICuZzEQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQLfskVABjg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBYmz7m1Ae4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxWVo6AQChM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCGtLspqwzw

these are just a few vids ive found going through the related vids on youtube, but i think they illustrate my point.

the video you posted up is a classic example of a typical drift session in the hills, they are usually closed off roads that are in the middle of nowhere, what you dont understand is that in Japan there are thousands of roads deep in the hills that will go nights without any traffic, these roads are used by these people as it is rare to see any traffic. of course there are a lot of other times where it isnt in such remote locations and there is traffic. not to defend it, but its a lot better than what these "racers" are doing in the hills with plenty of traffic around and at higher speeds.

its one thing to not like something, its another to insult something with ignorance. you do NOT know the first thing about proper drift, you have said this urself, therefore i would of expected u would try and reserve ur opinion based on ignorance as it only makes urself look bad.

being a victim of buying into a stereotype is certainly nothing to be proud about.

You're not seriously trying to suggest that this kind of culture has not attached itself to the "drifting" scene or visa versa? ... as compared to say, F1 racing, NASCAR, WRC or even high octane drag racing. Seriously? For better or worse, whether you like it or not, the fact is that silly type of street racer culture is part of drifting (or visa versa).

Type in "drift racing" in YouTube. This is the No.1 hit. No sign of the fast'n'furious culture, right? :really:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMeSIcYeLyo

no im not saying there isnt that culture attached, im saying that culture is attached to every motorsport, it is an unfortunate fact and we should be fighting as a whole of the motorsport community, not bitching about the other and putting ourselves on a podium.

ok because some bloke has collected a bunch of random clips and put a hip hop sound track to them, it means? um, that someone that listens to hip hop also likes to watch drift? ok, youve convinced me, there is a person in the world that listens to hip hop and watches drift, you win that argument.

as ive mentioned, i can guarentee you, most of that street racer culture is probably associated with drag racing, think of all the dick heads that sit at the lights revving their engines, dragging off the line, 2ndly would be grip racing through the hills or on the street, there is a massive amount of people i see come through the hills pushing their cars to the limit either racing someone else or just going as fast as they can. lastly would be drifting, how many people do you see from day to day ripping up the handbrake or scandoing in and throwing their car into a corner, sliding through the whole corner?

then i guess you could probably put another category to burnouts and donuts etc, which would be very high, i guess there are burnout competitions, so it would be considered a motorsport.

but i think that all this becomes irrelevant once we recognize that these people simply do not represent what our sports are about.

I don't mind drifting being in the game as far as "real cars can drift, so if it's a real simulator, these cars should be able to drift too", but leave it at that. I hope they don't do anything to encourage it. My hope is that this will be a pure, unadulterated racing simulator. "Drifting" is a fringe motor-sport, if you can even call it a "sport".
lol what? so would you say that freestyle motorcross is not considered a sport as opposed to supercross? or figure skating is not a sport as opposed to race skating? hell look at sports such as skateboarding and rollerblading, Bike riding, a lot, if not the majority of the sports using these vehicles are based around style and control rather than racing.

i hate to tell you, but there is a lot more to a sport than simply speed, car control is simply an aspect of driving that drifting focused on, racing focuses on different aspects of driving, neither is superior, they are all just simply different aspects of driving.

[nihil]

I have a bicycle. Will that do?


Yeah, that'll have to do I guess. I work round the corner from Evans (London bicycle shop)... In the paper this morning they were bragging about selling the £7000 carbon fibre Ferrari race bike. Might see if they have one in the showroom at lunchtime & post pix.

[March Hare]

Are we making a mockery of this whole thread by discussing bicycles?
Nah. You can drift bicycles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E14GN2_zNE

£7k for a bicycle... You could get a Range Rover Vogue for that!

[Ikaponthus]

nihill: you don't want to hear, so don't read it. Skip to next post. :thumb: Problem solved.


Nisskid,

You make fair points and I genuinely read and consider your arguments, even if they are a little defensive.

I will say though, I'm not "insulting" anyone or anything (as you suggested). I don't like it for some reasons (which maybe flawed) but that's not an insult. That's my opinion.

Well, yeah I do think it's kind of "moronic" to drift race in public streets, whether you expect there to be traffic or not - in fact, in some ways, not expecting traffic is even more dangerous! Ditto to be proud of the damage you've caused your tyres. I guess "moronic" is an insult, but if you don't do those things it doesn't apply to you or other drifters who don't do those things.

Now you do actually make a fair point about the same type of kids racing around the streets in their ricer-cars and that not being representative of circuit racing, however I don't think it's entirely valid. The different is that "drifting" is primarily a street racing thing that has only recently made the transition to a properly controlled track environment. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it originated on a track, it originated from kids in ricer cars trying to do power-slides.

Closed circuit racing and rally certainly did not originate on the streets. The origins of these types of motor-sports go way back to the invention of the auto-mobile when racing was the pass-time of high society and the aristocratic class that could actually afford cars. A lot of this mentality can still be seen in F1 in particular.

So while those same kids might also be into street racing that holds some similarities to closed circuit racing or rally racing, I think it's extremely disingenuous to pretend that the "proper" (note inverted commas - no offence) motor-racing genres have anywhere close to the same kind of link to the "bling" street-racer culture.

Yes, drag racing started on the streets too. But I'm no great fan of drag racing either.

So, is it fair to dislike something because of where it originates from? No, it's not. But because of the origins, it still retains a lot of the mentalities and style of street racing and that is the thing I really don't like. And that's not for any other reason than personal opinion. I don't like ultra-flashy, imported cars or the fashion and culture that goes along with them. Just not my thing. Well, it is for another reason I guess: street racing is dangerous and done by idiot kids who just have the drivers licence but think they're the best drivers in the world. But that's off the point of drifting, I know (unless it's done on public roads).

Lastly, I just don't like the actual act of "drifting". To me it's driving slowly around a corner, sideways and ruining tyres. Doesn't appeal to me on a personal level.

[Ikaponthus]

nihill: you don't want to hear, so don't read it. Skip to next post. :thumb: Problem solved.


Nisskid,

You make fair points and I genuinely read and consider your arguments, even if they are a little defensive.

I will say though, I'm not "insulting" anyone or anything (as you suggested). I don't like it for some reasons (which maybe flawed) but that's not an insult. That's my opinion.

Well, yeah I do think it's kind of "moronic" to drift race in public streets (whether you expect there to be traffic or not) and be proud of the damage you've caused your tyres. I guess "moronic" is an insult, but if you don't do those things it doesn't apply to you or other drifters who don't do those things. And yes, I think it's moronic to "race" on public streets too.

Now you do actually make a fair point about the same type of kids racing around the streets in their ricer-cars and that not being representative of circuit racing, however I don't think it's entirely valid. The difference is that "drifting" is primarily a street racing thing that has only recently made the transition to a properly controlled track environment. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it originated on a track, it originated from kids in ricer cars trying to do power-slides.

Closed circuit racing and rally certainly did not originate on the streets. The origins of these types of motor-sports go way back to the invention of the auto-mobile when racing was the pass-time of high society and the aristocratic class that could actually afford cars. A lot of this mentality can still be seen in F1 in particular.

So while those same kids might also be into street racing that holds some similarities to closed circuit racing or rally racing, I think it's extremely disingenuous to pretend that the "proper" (note inverted commas - no offence) motor-racing genres have anywhere comparable a link to the "bling" street-racer culture that "drift racing" does.

Yes, drag racing started on the streets too. But I'm no great fan of drag racing either.

So, is it fair to dislike something because of where it originates from? No, it's not. But because of the origins, it still retains a lot of the mentalities and style of street racing and that is the thing I really don't like. And that's not for any other reason than personal opinion. I don't like ultra-flashy, imported cars or the fashion and culture that goes along with them. Just not my thing.

Lastly, I just don't like the actual act of "drifting". To me it's driving slowly around a corner, sideways and ruining tyres. Doesn't appeal to me on a personal level.

[nihil]

Closed circuit racing and rally certainly did not originate on the streets. The origins of these types of motor-sports go way back to the invention of the auto-mobile when racing was the pass-time of high society and the aristocratic class that could actually afford cars. A lot of this mentality can still be seen in F1 in particular.


The history of motor racing, particularly the class bias, is whole lot more complex and interesting than that. The technological aspect of racing tied it closely to working class enthusiasms, as much as to aristocratic and mercantile capital. And there were no circuits until street racing (esp. the death toll on the Paris to Madrid) proved both popular and dangerous.

The traditional marxist approach to history (ie. that economics is the primary driving force) is flawed, in that money and power are nothing without cultural support.

There are lots of interesting things yet to be written on the subject of motor racing history. That the sport did not originate on the streets is not one of them.

[Ikaponthus]

That might be interesting but my point remains.

Basically, closed circuit street racing, rally, etc. simply do not have the same ties to street racer culture that "drifting racing" does.

[Ikaponthus]

V8 supercars racer trying to drift haha, apparently not as easy as he thought it would be.

Which V8 Supercar race driver is that? With DRIFT plastered down the side of his car? I'd say that's actually a "drift racer" putting his mad skillz on display there.

[nihil]

That might be interesting but my point remains.

Basically, closed circuit street racing, rally, etc. simply do not have the same ties to street racer culture that "drifting racing" does.

Because the political and social influences on history now are very different to those at the end of the nineteenth century... But I don't see how it is possible to argue that circuit racing does not have its roots in the 'streets'; both in a metaphorical sense (that it evolved from popular, public drives and impetuses) and physically (there simply were no circuits for the first car race to take place on).

[Ikaponthus]

While in 1900 (or whenever) it was probably not on a race-track, the origins of modern autosports simply cannot be compared in any way whatsoever to contemporary bling street racer idiocy. My guess (correct me if I'm wrong) is that this very same contemporary bling street racing scene is where "drift racing" originated. In comparison, I think you'll find that the origins of F1 etc. were organised, legal, controlled events relative to their time in history. That they may not have been on closed-circuit race-tracks at the earliest moments of conception is completely besides the point.

[March Hare]

Basically, closed circuit street racing, rally, etc. simply do not have the same ties to street racer culture that "drifting racing" does.
What is closed circuit street racing?
Name me one motor sport that wasn't first implemented on the streets. Well off-roading doesn't use streets but lets not be so picky.

The reason racing and street racing are seen as two seperate and very different phenomena is the amount of media coverage racing gets. Everybody knows racing and street racing are totally different.
Drifting, as a sport, has very little media coverage. Where as the dorks who "drift" in the streets get plenty. Nowadays anything with big wings and flashy graphics are labeled as drifting by the media. F&F:TD really did a big "favour" to the drifting community. Besides it's absolutely the worst car movie I have ever seen.

[nihil]

While in 1900 (or whenever) it was probably not on a race-track, the origins of modern autosports simply cannot be compared in any way whatsoever to contemporary bling street racer idiocy.

In the history of morals and manners that relate to motor racing, I'm sure there will be a section dedicated to quotes on the 'idiocy' and irresponsible nature inherent to drivers of the horseless carriage.

It was the bling of its day (indeed early cars are referred to as 'brass era' cars). I'm not making a direct comparison here, merely stating that your dislike seems to be more about modern manners than a contemporary sport. why not just say so, instead of attempting back it up with technical verbiage about tyre conservation.

[Ikaponthus]

I think we're getting off point. Where closed circuit racing originated is irrelevant. Suffice to say it was around the 1900s in very old an relatively slow cars by an aristocratic upper class as nobody else could even afford cars!

[nihil]

I think we're getting off point. Where closed circuit racing originated is irrelevant. Suffice to say it was around the 1900s in very old an relatively slow cars by an aristocratic upper class as nobody else could even afford cars!

We are ot, but this is much, much more interesting FFS!!

[Ikaponthus]

your dislike seems to be more about modern manners than a contemporary sport. why not just say so, instead of attempting back it up with technical verbiage about tyre conservation.

I've said so already. Part of the reason I don't like drifting is because of the bling culture that goes with it! I've said it a thousand times. But then people say, "but the bling culture goes with circuit racing too" and then we all get way off the topic!

If you want to argue about my personal tastes and why I don't like drifting, I can briefly outline the reasons if you want me to, but then don't get defensive or tell me to shut up. I don't like rap music either, that's not an insult to people that do like rap music. It's just my personal opinion.

[nisskid]

Well, yeah I do think it's kind of "moronic" to drift race in public streets, whether you expect there to be traffic or not - in fact, in some ways, not expecting traffic is even more dangerous! Ditto to be proud of the damage you've caused your tyres. I guess "moronic" is an insult, but if you don't do those things it doesn't apply to you or other drifters who don't do those things.

Now you do actually make a fair point about the same type of kids racing around the streets in their ricer-cars and that not being representative of circuit racing, however I don't think it's entirely valid. The different is that "drifting" is primarily a street racing thing that has only recently made the transition to a properly controlled track environment. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it originated on a track, it originated from kids in ricer cars trying to do power-slides.
nihil has obviously already talked about the origins of racing, so i dont see much point on touching on it, so i will talk about drift. drift did originate on the street, but not kids powersliding, it started deep in the hills of Japan along side racing on the touge (term for mountain roads in Japan), theres a few different stories on why it started being used, not thats its really important but one of the origins is that it was actually a technique that slowly was adapted from racing, minor amounts of oversteer were induced to prevent understeer and it slowly became more and more about the drift rather than simply a technique for racing. what was seen here was a lot different from today, as the sport progressed it obviously changed a lot.

oh and drift is just quite simply not primarily a "street racing thing", in fact id argue that the ratio of people that drift on the track and people that drift on the street is more favourable towards the track than people that grip race, as mentioned i see people all the time racing through the hills, but rarely do you see people drifting through the hills.

and to put things into perspective, at a drift practice there is about 30% more participants than at a grip practice, and not that its overly relevant to this point, but at drift practice they charge an entry fee for spectators, whereas at the grip practice they dont, even so drift practice reels in at least 4-5 times the amount of spectators.

So while those same kids might also be into street racing that holds some similarities to closed circuit racing or rally racing, I think it's extremely disingenuous to pretend that the "proper" (note inverted commas - no offence) motor-racing genres have anywhere close to the same kind of link to the "bling" street-racer culture.

Yes, drag racing started on the streets too. But I'm no great fan of drag racing either.

So, is it fair to dislike something because of where it originates from? No, it's not. But because of the origins, it still retains a lot of the mentalities and style of street racing and that is the thing I really don't like. And that's not for any other reason than personal opinion. I don't like ultra-flashy, imported cars or the fashion and culture that goes along with them. Just not my thing. Well, it is for another reason I guess: street racing is dangerous and done by idiot kids who just have the drivers licence but think they're the best drivers in the world. But that's off the point of drifting, I know (unless it's done on public roads).
what bling? im within the drift scene, and the cars on street are either stock looking cars with performance mods, or ghetto looking cars with damage and mismatched panels, rarely do you see a "blinged up" car drifting. these people that sport the big chrome rims, neons, all that BS drive down a main road and try and pick up underage girls, they are not affiliated with any motorsport.

the fashion u see sometimes in Japan is simply some Japs having a crazy taste for cars. as for drift cars on the track, you will see body kits, wheels, decals etc, just like any circuit car, they need to be presented well for sponsors etc.

oh and BTW, you cant argue that street racing is dangerous, whether it be racing, drift, drag racing etc, but once again all motorsports share this side to them. also not all people that race on the street are idiotic kids, even some world famous racers and drifters are seen battling the touge, its a different discipline, but as i said, its often done on closed roads so there is no traffic.

Lastly, I just don't like the actual act of "drifting". To me it's driving slowly around a corner, sideways and ruining tyres. Doesn't appeal to me on a personal level.
i dont know about slowly...

(id recommend watching all of it, my favourite is at 1:45 where kuroi does a classic kuroi and carries massive angle through the corner)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfWQkkKPKyw

[xaotik]

If you want to argue about my personal tastes and why I don't like drifting, I can briefly outline the reasons if you want me to, but then don't get defensive or tell me to shut up. I don't like rap music either, that's not an insult to people that do like rap music. It's just my personal opinion.

I think that what gets most people is not the fact of your personal taste - it's the fact that you started a thread (with a rather blatant title) about it in what, for all appearances, looks like an attempt to ram it down their throat.

You could probably start a whole series of threads entitled "What's the fascination with ______?!" and make one for each of the things you don't like and the result would be pretty much the same.

[nisskid]

Which V8 Supercar race driver is that? With DRIFT plastered down the side of his car? I'd say that's actually a "drift racer" putting his mad skillz on display there.
his name was warren luff i beleive, it was part of a promotional thing, the car was designed for drift and was drifted competitively by a drifter, but for this event they let warren behind to the wheel to see how he went, the result tells it all.

[nihil]

If you want to argue about my personal tastes ....

I don't want to.

Your tastes, my tastes, his, hers, whoever's, are only worth one post. Actually, I have to define that a bit better... Individual tastes are not as interesting as how they become mass tastes, how they become historical.

[RocksGt]

You could probably start a whole series of threads entitled "What's the fascination with ______?!" and make one for each of the things you don't like and the result would be pretty much the same.
And that would be an excellent field of research for his friends and relatives who don't know what to buy him for his birthday :nod:

[nisskid]

oh, and ive got nothing wrong with u expressing your opinion, but when its based of false statements which do in fact insult the sport.

[nisskid]

I like hip hop, but that's irrelevant (and let's not get in to the "rap is not hip hop and vice versa" thing either...), really not worth discussing. I am, however, interested to know why and how the car has become such a part of hip hop iconography.
i like to call it the fast and the furious generation, the movies brought an inflated image of the car scene, and drift is simply just the latest in the movie sets so its quite simply just the latest craze for them. it will pass.

[nihil]

i like to call it the fast and the furious generation, the movies brought an inflated image of the car scene, and drift is simply just the latest in the movie sets so its quite simply just the latest craze for them. it will pass.

Ha ha... I edited that out 'cos it sounded a bit fluffy... But I think it goes a bit further back than FnF, since the car has always been an icon of social as well as spatial mobility.

The first FnF film was quite interesting though, in that, while most of the protagonist cars were Japanese imports, the 'hero' car was all American muscle. There's a whole thesis in that...

[Ikaponthus]

So, I will reply to your other points in time. And they're good points BTW.

But setting aside my dislike for drifting for a second ... can you explain to me what it is they're doing? As in the goal? Sometimes I see two cars on the track - they're not actually racing are they? Just competing to see who can get more sideways? If it's the latter (which I am guessing is more likely), how do they know who wins? I'm assuming there are judges or something that judge on angle of drift and speed and award a score or something?

[nihil]

they're not actually racing are they?

To a certain extent, yes, they are. Not for an absolute and ultimate time, but for relative position. This explains it fairly well:


Offensive: Generally the chasing driver has the offensive when in the Twin Battle. An easy analogy is Cowboys at a rodeo competing in the round up or two jet pilots engaged in a dog fight. They chase their prey and do what ever they can to get their target into a dead zone where the prey cannot maneuver from. This same principle is used in the Tsuiso style. Driver use their vehicle and its drift to position into a space that minimizes the running drivers ability to keep a good line while staying in a high speed drift. The chasing driver MUST at all times demonstrate a superior drift in order to A) Keep the pressure on the lead driver B) Steal and block a line that may allow the lead driver a good opportunity for a drift. C) Be awarded a superior number of points If a chasing driver is unable to keep up and maintain pressure on the lead driver this will not be good when the time comes for points to be awarded.

Defensive: When a drive takes the lead in the Tsuiso battle the ideal strategy is to perform a drift a a much higher speed, good line, and a greater angle than the chasing driver. If a lead driver can shake off or intimidate a chasing driver many times the chasing driver will make a mistake when trying to compensate for what seems like erratic actions of the lead car. When a lead driver can pull away with a good angle, following the ideal line while maintaining a controlled drift, the chasing driver has all the pressure to increase performance. The lead driver at this point is winning. Lead drivers many times demonstrate superior skill by suddenly entering a drift at a great angle and going directly to the inside of the corner. TO the following driver it appears as though they will T-bone the lead car so they back down and take measures to avoid the lead car. Many times that will cause the chasing car to loose a great amount of speed and not be able to properly execute the corner in a full drift… or even worst they may spin out or hit the barriers. This is a ideal outcome for the lead driver in Tsuiso battles.

Sorry to the original author, but this was an ancient copy and paste into notepad job lying around on my hard drive...

[nisskid]

So, I will reply to your other points in time. And they're good points BTW.

But setting aside my dislike for drifting for a second ... can you explain to me what it is they're doing? As in the goal? Sometimes I see two cars on the track - they're not actually racing are they? Just competing to see who can get more sideways? If it's the latter (which I am guessing is more likely), how do they know who wins? I'm assuming there are judges or something that judge on angle of drift and speed and award a score or something?
it is a judged sport, the judging criteria varies slightly between each country and event, but the general criteria is speed, angle and line. in a battle the idea of the leader is to generally do as good drift as possible and if possible getting some distance on the follower, the follower is trying to emulate the driver in front, keep close and even overtake under drift if it is possible.

there are plenty of tactics in the way of doing this, but its probably not worth getting into.

[Ikaponthus]

Fair enough. Thanks for explaining.

I guess it is kind of like other judged sports but there's still something about it that's just ... pointless. That's not quite the right word to express what I mean though.

But each to their own.

Bottom line is I don't care if people do it in LFS as long as it's doesn't impede the proper racing facet of the sim.

[nisskid]

Fair enough. Thanks for explaining.

I guess it is kind of like other judged sports but there's still something about it that's just ... pointless. That's not quite the right word to express what I mean though.

But each to their own.

Bottom line is I don't care if people do it in LFS as long as it's doesn't impede the proper racing facet of the sim.
why would it? LFS is designed to sim the physics of driving a car, whether people use it for race or drift wont matter.

and most people would argue simply racing around a circuit is pointless, and well, it is, but **** its fun, same as drifting, its not there to have a point, its there to be fun.

[nihil]

... pointless. That's not quite the right word to express what I mean though.


Eight pages... Oye Vay!

[Ikaponthus]

Eight pages... Oye Vay!

Not interested?

Solution: Stop clicking the thread and chipping in your 2c. Problem solved.

[Ikaponthus]

why would it? LFS is designed to sim the physics of driving a car, whether people use it for race or drift wont matter.

and most people would argue simply racing around a circuit is pointless, and well, it is, but **** its fun, same as drifting, its not there to have a point, its there to be fun.

Like I said, "pointless" is maybe not the ideal word. You could argue about that forever. What is the point of anything, right?

It's that drifting is an impractical use of a racing car. In racing, you're trying to go as fast as you can and the car is designed and setup to do that within the racing regulations. In drifting you're purposely forcing the car to behave in an inefficient manner.

"I just don't get it"! :rolleyes2

[nisskid]

Like I said, "pointless" is maybe not the ideal word. You could argue about that forever. What is the point of anything, right?

It's that drifting is an impractical use of a racing car. In racing, you're trying to go as fast as you can and the car is designed and setup to do that within the racing regulations. In drifting you're purposely forcing the car to behave in an inefficient manner.

Ah **** it. You could sum up my view by: "I just don't get it"! :rolleyes2
drift cars are drift cars, they arnt race cars, they do what they are designed for. race cars are designed to go fast around a circuit, they do what they were designed for efficiently. drift cars are designed to drift around the circuit, they do what they were designed for efficiently. its all relative, what makes going around a circuit fast any more purposeful that drifting?

ill go back to this, what is the purpose of racing, hell what is the purpose of sport, why do people do it? because they enjoy it, they get something out of it, if you dont do something unnecessary for enjoyment, why do it? drift is fun to participate in and spectate, unfortunately for you, you have not experienced either, i havnt met anyone who has been to a drift event and hasnt enjoyed it, hell my 70 year old grandma loved it. i genuinely think you would enjoy it if you went to an event, but if your not willing to try something new i cant change that.

[mcintyrej]

Like I said, "pointless" is maybe not the ideal word. You could argue about that forever. What is the point of anything, right?

It's that drifting is an impractical use of a racing car. In racing, you're trying to go as fast as you can and the car is designed and setup to do that within the racing regulations. In drifting you're purposely forcing the car to behave in an inefficient manner.

"I just don't get it"! :rolleyes2

Your just TRYING to have an argument here. You should be on the olympic board and ban figure skating, same thing here.

If someone goes and builds a car that is intended to be drifted in, its not a race car is it? Its a drift car.

You say inefficient manner? Then whats the "efficient" manner? What if I think that the efficient manner is driving at low revs at low speeds, as you would on real roads.

I think your the only one in here that doesn't understand why people drift, having being told several (hundred) reasons why people do you still refuse to accept people are allowed to like things different to you.

[atlantian]

he just joined... he may be picking up the vibes of the bigots around the forums and he is just trying to fit in with "the crowd"

[Hankstar]

This Agapanthus chap has turned into quite the troll. At first he just seemed like a guy who'd never heard of drifting and was asking honest questions to educate himself. Now, it seems, I stand corrected and the little chap's grown tusks, moved into a hole under a bridge and has started a diet based on small goats.

I won't bother re-telling you what you've been told about the sport of drifting, Spartacus, but I will quite happily tell you to pull your head in and stop being so purposely & bafflingly obtuse. You've been told what drifting's about more than once, so please either accept it, shut up and move on or, failing that (which seems likely) just shut up.

If you still don't "get" drifting that's not the fault of anyone here. If you don't understand drifting then in the same vein I'm equally sure you don't understand vert, flatland or freestyle BMX, figure skating, rhythmic gymnastics, dressage, ballroom dancing or any other sport that's judged on subjective, stylistic criteria :shrug: But I don't think that's the case. Rather, it seems you're into annoying people because you can. Very productive.

Epic fail.

[atlantian]

i think drifting is awesome, it's a get together show off of car control skills...

but speaking of trolling and posts...
DAMN, my post counts are going down... it's nearly half of what it was before...

btw, Ikaponthus did you even bother posting or reading the Newb forums?

mind giving us a background story?
would be nice! :D

[Ikaponthus]

I think your the only one in here that doesn't understand why people drift, having being told several (hundred) reasons why people do you still refuse to accept people are allowed to like things different to you.

Seriously.

Are you ****ing joking!?

I've said a million times that I don't mind people drifting in LFS or in real life and that everyone likes different things. I don't like drifting and some people seem not to be able to accept that. You obviously aren't even reading what I post!!

I honestly don't care what other people do.

And no, I'm not being a Troll. I'm having a discussion about something. What's the big deal? People disagree. I'm not angry at anyone, I don't dislike anyone here. I'm just discussing the topic. No need to get defensive or insulted.

If you don't want to talk about it, don't click on the thread, don't read it and most of all, don't reply. Problem solved.

[flymike91]

the problem is, your post is fine until you add some little tag line that starts the argument all over again. It would be beneficial to the people who are trying to have a real discussion if you didn't post here anymore. You're just causing the discussion to go in circles.

[Ikaponthus]

Fair enough then, I actually think you are right. I'm going to stop posting in this thread it's getting silly, but that's only partly my fault. People shouldn't be so insulted and defensive. But I shouldn't push my opinion so hard either.

[wabbit]

Fantastic, looks like its all resolved. Yay no need to discuss this topic ever again :D

[D E V I L -Z-]

Just to overthrow a few myths that some ignorant/uninformed people have commented here on drifting.

First of all Drifters can race, it all depends on the skill of the driver. A well versed driver is able to handle all styles of automotive sports in this case drifting, racing as well as rally and drag. Drifting and power-sliding are very different even, drifting is where the driver is engaged in a slide but lessons the angle so there is no loss in speed otherwise called a Controlled slide.Power-sliding being the opposite description and whereas called a uncontrolled slide.
In real life, leading world-class drifters are high level racers. Here e2mustang, blackman, ozans and myself hold a number of world records in racing namely ozans holding 3 WR's, e2mustang and blackman 12 WR's and myself holding 6 WR's and yet with those creditentials we drift as well.

Secondly drifting is more of a sport based on control and style, still very difficult to do at high levels but is based on three fundamental points: Angle, Speed and line, how many degrees of angle can be achieved while still maintaining a high speed and taking the ideal line in the drift, the closer to the wall and/or closer to the leader of the twin drift the better but again is it not a race and therefore not attempting to gain a faster time and passing the opponent during the drift, Although passing can be done but is only really done if the leader of the twin drift crashes or makes a mistake otherwise if not, the following drifter will attempt to get close as possible to the leading drifter throughout the run.

Here is an example - two videos of professional drifters in a twin drift.
(2nd Video - I do not support street racing/drifting. Is used only for educational purposes and is done in controlled conditions ;)]

One of the best twin drifts ever recorded on video - http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTs2aORTdR0

Touge Twin Drifting -
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9XgnYgKW4

After watching those videos, Now tell me how can that not be exilerating, racing still is of course but dont exclude drifting out of it as well. :)

[atlantian]

Best Touge Places in Japan With Nomuken!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xMe4k68-Qls
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bJ2Lgz2buLE

[Woz]

(2nd Video - I do not support street racing/drifting. Is used only for educational purposes and is done in controlled conditions ;)

Sorry but you lost ALL credibility with that second video. Drifting has NO PLACE EVER on a public road. Only an absolute MORON would consider it OK.

If you are into this sort of thing I hope that when you wrap yourself around something (AND YOU WILL) it is NOT a person coming the other way. I would prefer its was something like a tree so that you don't harm/kill anyone else, JUST YOURSELF!

I mean this with REAL convition BTW, sick of these morons on the streets thinking what they are doing is OK, it is NOT.

This is not an attack on drifting on tracks, JUST public roads! When the drift community starts to realise its not ok it will get the credibility is wants, until then more inocent people will CONTINUE to die and the to the public the sport will remain in the gutter. If you can't understand this you ARE part of the problem :)

[kamkorPL]

Woz: Same can be said about street racers, who race on straightways, do races trough traffic on autobahns, race on touges etc. And I bet there are more racers racing ilegally on streets than there are drifters drifting ilegally on streets.

[flymike91]

well said

[Woz]

Woz: Same can be said about street racers, who race on straightways, do races trough traffic on autobahns, race on touges etc. And I bet there are more racers racing ilegally on streets than there are drifters drifting ilegally on streets.

100% correct in every way. They are just as bad.

And when this happened recently http://www.newser.com/story/19230.html my reaction was "Good a load of street racers off the road and this time it was an inocent that killed them!". A taste of their own carnage they feel happy to inflict of the rest of us.

Poor bloke in the car comes round a corner and is blinded and has no outs. Sounds like his passenger died and he got hurt. If you support street racing and drifting this is what you support.

So to recap

Street racer and street drifter. HOPE YOU ALL DIE in a nasty smash WITHOUT hitting an inocent. You deserve it for the risk you put us all in. Harsh but I am sure there are many that feel the same way. We are sick of your SHITE!

[kamkorPL]

Ah.. Accident like that must happen someday in my city. There is a spot where "street racers" meet. There are many people, big crowds, even family with children from local "villages". And what's worse, drunk people. Mix that with amateours doing drag races, doing wheelies with motorbikes etc. = the result is obvious. The question is only "When?".

[D E V I L -Z-]

Woz: If you paid attention to my message i posted earlier "Done in Controlled conditions" the roads were blocked off on both ends the following car was the 3rd person video follower, similar to a D1 Street legal sanctioned event. And btw dont go off topic, keep it to the main point.

[Woz]

Woz: If you paid attention to my message i posted earlier "Done in Controlled conditions" the roads were blocked off on both ends the following car was the 3rd person video follower, similar to a D1 Street legal sanctioned event. And btw dont go off topic, keep it to the main point.

But "Done with controlled conditions" means a lot of different things to different people. As you cleared up what you meant I take back some of what I said.

My views on street racers and drifters stands 100% though :)

BTW. It is NOT off topic at all. The "Street" community is big and it is the face of your sport to most of the public. Thay are what holds back acceptance of your sport. This is why threads like "What's the fascination with drifting?" come from :)

[rainspecialist]

theres many things you can do in a drift race meaning becoming apro you have to make a drift from the begginng to the end o the turn drifting, theres many techniques plus you have to manage your tires while keeping up with the leading car and or pass while drifting thats pro drifitng for ya:thumb:

[NoYPiDRiFTER]

fascination of drifting: when you are in a cop chase in cruising servers, the cops PIT u and u can stop the pit by drifting :) Drifting: easier to turn: faster cornering.

[Whisper]

Haha, this thread is lol.

Drift hater comes in with preconceived notions.

Drift hater: PLZ explain what's so good about drifting?

For several pages people explain.

Drift hater ignores.

Drift hater: PLZ explain what's so good about drifting?

Anyway, sometimes drifting is a faster way around a turn than grip. Keiichi Tsuchiya (Drift King) has shown it to be true in touge races. So it's not just an exhibition technique.

[nisskid]

Drifting and power-sliding are very different even, drifting is where the driver is engaged in a slide but lessons the angle so there is no loss in speed otherwise called a Controlled slide.Power-sliding being the opposite description and whereas called a uncontrolled slide.
not really, powersliding is a part of drifting, it describes the part of using drive (power) to slide the car. some people consider this drift but the general consenus is that this is only one element, using momentum on entry and initiating the drift are one of the most important parts of the drift, just putting on the power coming out of the corner is rarely considered skillful, although what can be done with powersliding can be very skillful.

One of the best twin drifts ever recorded on video - http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTs2aORTdR0

not even close, a very popular video thats been circulating the internet for ages, its very old, and probably only made its success from being one of the very early decent vids of D1 drifters on the internet, it reality it's nothing special, those kind of battles are recreated every day in Japan. to see the real close drifitng your probably better off looking into more local comps like MSC, the proximity there is insane. ill try and dig up a few vids.

heres some:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gsTBEXlu_Fg (wait til half way)
just have a look at this guys MSC vids: http://youtube.com/user/motorsportscom

[nisskid]

Sorry but you lost ALL credibility with that second video. Drifting has NO PLACE EVER on a public road. Only an absolute MORON would consider it OK.

If you are into this sort of thing I hope that when you wrap yourself around something (AND YOU WILL) it is NOT a person coming the other way. I would prefer its was something like a tree so that you don't harm/kill anyone else, JUST YOURSELF!

I mean this with REAL convition BTW, sick of these morons on the streets thinking what they are doing is OK, it is NOT.

This is not an attack on drifting on tracks, JUST public roads! When the drift community starts to realise its not ok it will get the credibility is wants, until then more inocent people will CONTINUE to die and the to the public the sport will remain in the gutter. If you can't understand this you ARE part of the problem :)
haha, do you actually know how many people have died from street drifting? i personally dont have an issue with drifting in remote places where there is no one else around, it doesnt affect the sports reputation and it doesnt kill people, the worst that happens is you damage your car.

unfortunately in some areas there arent any tracks, or hell simply not enough track days, i figure its better for them to vent their steam on a remote road than something in the middle of the city, when it comes down to it, the amount of people who die from drifting in the industrial areas would be so minimal, if even existant, your probably more at risk of driving in peak hour traffic and through an intersection.

now, im not saying its alright, im just trying to divide the 2 sections i think sometimes get mixed up, idiots who try and powerslide out of a corner in a neighbourhood or in the city are just that idiots, they are putting other people at risk as people are all around and its easy to lose it into another car, or a pedestrian etc. people who go out in a remote location to practice do not put peoples lives at risk, in fact no one even knows they are even there, no one lives for usually at least a few k's from these places, and it takes place when no one is working or even out at the time usually.

[nisskid]

The "Street" community is big and it is the face of your sport to most of the public. Thay are what holds back acceptance of your sport. This is why threads like "What's the fascination with drifting?" come from :)
the "street community" im talking about probably 99% of people wouldnt even know about.