GTTC Round 3 The Bay Brawl - Post Race Discusion

[anttt69]

To be quite honest I dont know where to begin on this one:

At turn one there were many crashes including one made worse by lag which flipped cars through the air like toys. The standard of driving in the GTR's was laughable at times, luckily limited to only a few. How many times were you warned "take care in T1!"

The nature of the track just highlighted the major issue of this series. Namely GTR's lapping TBO's. Now I know its not easy for either drivers as the closing speeds are quite substantial but err-ing on the side of caution is always a good idea. Drivers tying to get past just before & during corners caused no end of problems.

I was punted off the track no fewer than three times & involved in a massive accident which ruined my race. I also witnessed other TBO's suffering the same fate :(. If a slower car is already committed to a corner i.e. turning in & well ahead of the approaching car then please dont dive down the inside pushing others off the track & slamming them into walls.

Can we have some set rules for overtaking because there seems to be a lack of respect from some of the GTR drivers. The race wrecker didn't even appologise.

[niall09]

The standard of driving in the GTR's was laughable at times

Yup :thumb:

Like I stated in the thread over at gentlefoot.com :)

[StableX]

I think it's pretty much all said over at gentlefoot's forum on this.

[anttt69]

thanks, i'll check it out.

[BenjiMC]

I think it goes both ways. While i never really had a problem with any TBO's because i had a nice lead i know that if i was chasing someone i would of. There were a few times where I had to follow a TBO for a good 4-5 corners and once i had to follow a car through the majority of the final sector of the circuit. Also a few times i came out of the downhill section onto the back straight and had cars turn in more rather than using the full track meaning i had to turn even further inwards.

TBH It goes both ways, just the GTR drivers don't complain about it.

[anttt69]

I agree its a nuisance but its only a minority of the hard charging GTR's that cause all the problems. Us TBO's do our best to get out of the way but its not always possible.

Dont worry i'm not pointing the finger at you. You know how to drive.

I was pushed off the track 3 times including one ramming, by drivers who refuse to slow down. All they have to do is wait for a short straight & pass safely.

The GTR drivers have nothing to complain about.

[Gentlefoot]

The review is now available and penalties will be applied if required.



During the early rounds of the first season of the GFC we had similar discussions to this regarding FO8s and FOXs. The judicial reviews meant that some divers were penalised during the season.

Now we don't see these types of problems in the GFC anymore. At least it is extremely rare.

If you watch the GFC replay from this weekends race and then watch the replay from the first ever GFC race the contrast is stark!

It will take some time but the standard of driving will improve in the same way in the GTTC as it did in the GFC.

There are often some rather 'wild' shall we say drivers at the start of seasons too. These 'wild' drivers tend to disappear over the season. Some of them leave and some of them morph into much more 'considered' drivers over time.

I expect the standard of driving in the GTTC to improve drammatically over the next 2 or 3 rounds. And it's also worth remembering the Fern Bay Gold is renowned for it's danger and tightness and is always a challenge for drivers only 3 races into their first season.

But it is spectacular and the replays offer endless entertainment when watched with Race Viewer. :)

[count.bazley]

Gentlefoot is very right here. I remember those first few rounds of the GFC the FO8 drivers were throwing their cars up through the apex when lapping FOX's. Now they are much more clean and considerate when lapping.

[niall09]

Seeing as i missed the judicial review time :( I think ill post my video here, it has shift-f on so no naming and shaming :p

http://www.niallmcevoy.com/misc/gttc_s1_r3_report.avi


If you feel this as innapropriate, feel free to take it away :shrug:

[anttt69]

just downloaded it, (all 38mb) you could of shrunk the file a bit.

Looks like more inexperienced driving & a lack of awareness. I cant understand why the GTR went on the grass in the first place.

tbh I think you should name & shame the culprit it's only fair & it would also encourage them to improve their driving for future events.

[[RF]-art555]

Personally I, while still enjoy competing in GTTC, think the diffirence between TBO and GTR classes is to big. In GFC while diffirence in times is big, cars have rather equal abilities to have sensible speed in corners and ability to change the entry/exit line for corners, while TBO class has (almoust in every corner) only one line it can take and its usually the widest one. That causes confuses, when GTR driver approaches a TBO car which turns in from outside, goes inside and exits wide.

FWD GTRs and GTRs seem to be a more sensible combination imo, or fwd GTRs and TBOs. :shrug:

[anttt69]

I have to agree with you mr art on the point of the classes having too much speed difference.
In the GFC you have wings n slicks vs wings n slicks which is in no way comparable to the TBO's vs GTR's. imo a recipe for carnage.

GF made a good point that the racing will improve once drivers get used to the concept. Thing is when will it improve? Three races in to the season, four races??:shrug: The next round is South city which will probably be even worse. Once the lapping begins its more like dodgems than racing.

I really cant see mr foot pulling this one round like he did the GFC. The cars are too different. An idea would be to run the XFR/UFR instead of tbo's or TBO's with slick mod.

[niall09]

I really cant see mr foot pulling this one round like he did the GFC. The cars are too different. An idea would be to run the XFR/UFR instead of tbo's or TBO's with slick mod.

Or to sort the men from the boys, LRF + TBOs ;)

[anttt69]

-art555;701094'] while TBO class has (almoust in every corner) only one line it can take and its usually the widest one. That causes confuses, when GTR driver approaches a TBO car which turns in from outside, goes inside and exits wide.


How does a car following the racing line cause confusion?

[sokke]

Oh man it took long to figure out I need "fraps codec" to be able to see the video. :) I kind of knew it would be about this accident. Well, I was there watching it from first row. I was a bit surprised that you didn't complain any louder about your destiny. Loosing it that way really sucks.

Anttt: The reason the GTR took the grass route was because he first rammed on my left side while lapping in furies urge (you can see me cutting the chicane short).

Anyway, I'm sorry few GTRs made us slow moving obstacles afraid of every GTR out there in Fern Bay. But I'm also certain that the standards will get better race by race, just like the man himself said few posts back.

See you in South City. Good luck to all to those narrow streets.

[StableX]

I don't think there is an issue with running the two classes. The issues are with the track choices. FE3 is a very narrow track and I think maybe a little too narrow for the two classes. With KY3R I thought it worked very well as it would with a track like WE1 or WE1r.

[niall09]

Oh man it took long to figure out I need "fraps codec" to be able to see the video. :) I kind of knew it would be about this accident. Well, I was there watching it from first row. I was a bit surprised that you didn't complain any louder about your destiny. Loosing it that way really sucks.


I did lodge a complaint, but i was too late :( But I still think that it sohuld be reviewed by GF :(

What happened sokke, you retired for what reason? :(

[sokke]

Stable: Yep, I too think that the track at hand got alot to do with the amount of lapping incidents.

Niall: Secure 2nd pos --> monitor decides it's time to go power saving --> lot of and loud #%%&#-words.

(New monitor will be in use before next race.) :thumb:

[BenjiMC]

How does a car following the racing line cause confusion?

Because as he said, TBO's take a wide line. Wide line usually means your giving way. But thats the norm for a TBO, GTR drivers take the wrong message from it.

[[RF]-art555]

How does a car following the racing line cause confusion?

I had a few accidents like that but didn't want to write it down in original post, but I'll explain.

There were quite a few such confuses with me and other GTR driver on both R1 and R3. Especially on flat out corners. When I was starting to turn in the GTR driver tried overtaking on the inside, but lacked speed to do it fast enough and in the result we touched and/or he pushed me off the track. Another scenario was that I was going through apex and GTR driver was trying to overtake me on the outside while my car was pushed by innertia to the outside, he again lacked speed and we either had a collision and he goes off the track or I have to brake and loose a great deal of speed in order to not hit him, but becoming even more dangerous for upcoming from the back GTRs.

So from the GTR driver's point of view it sometimes may be looking as if TBO is trying to block the lapping car, but infact fights the car for every inch of the track :shrug:

As for SO round, I agree with you, it won't be better then other rounds definetly.
Any way to use a tank on that round?:smileypul

[Gentlefoot]

SO Long is significantly wider than Fern Bay and has much longer straights for the GTRs to get past on.

As for TBOs and GTRs not being compatible that is just plain wrong. All cars are compatible with all other cars if the drivers accept that it is not a normal race and you have to make allowances.

The GTR drivers that realise this will be the same ones that finish at the top of the league come the end of the season.

As for track choice. The tracks selected give enough variety. You wouldn't want to see Monaco dropped from the F1 calendar would you?

[Storm_Cloud]

Speaking from a GFC point of view I agree with the track choice. I must admit I don't particularly look forward to Fern Bay, but it is a monster challenge that I enjoy when I am into the rhythm of the race.

[count.bazley]

He's very right, it's the drivers and not the cars that need to be looked at here. I've done 2 rounds of this so far and not had an incident lapping a TBO car yet, mainly because I wait until I know I can get past, as opposed to what a lot of drivers are doing which is going for it when they think they can get past. And it is quite clear in the rules that it's the job of the GTR driver to find his way through rather than the TBO driver to let them through. And for reference it was Round 4 of the GFC where the driving standards had taken a noticable turn for the better. I found with the GFC and for the GTTC rounds so far the best thing to do was go on the server and practise together with the other classes running around, that way you get experience of the on-track conditions and learn how far you can take it.

[Gentlefoot]

Yeah, its a shame we don't see more drivers out on the server in the two weeks between races. If we all raced each other a bit more then we would all get to know each others styles. :)

It would also help bring people into the series. We all want full grids so logging on the gentlefoot.com#3 when practicing is going to make the whole experience better for all of us.

[anttt69]

As for TBOs and GTRs not being compatible that is just plain wrong. All cars are compatible with all other cars if the drivers accept that it is not a normal race and you have to make allowances.


Whats wrong about it? No race organizer in RL would even consider putting GT cars out on a track racing against Road cars on Road tyres. It's madness. Even in that top gear 24hr race the road cars had slicks on & thats the most extreme class mixing I have ever seen.

Obviously its taking far to long for some drivers to accept that may need to slow down, but in no way are these cars compatible.

[Gentlefoot]

Whats wrong about it? No race organizer in RL would even consider putting GT cars out on a track racing against Road cars on Road tyres. It's madness. Even in that top gear 24hr race the road cars had slicks on & thats the most extreme class mixing I have ever seen.

Obviously its taking far to long for some drivers to accept that fact.


Le Mans has cars with no downforce against super fast prototypes with huge downforce.

All I am saying is that everyone needs to drive accordingly. You can run any car with any other car so long as the drivers adjust the way they drive to suit.

Sorry, feel like I'm saying the same thing twice here.

[sokke]

Sorry, feel like I'm saying the same thing twice here.

You are. There's nothing wrong with the Concept :D , it's just the way people ignores the surroundings and conditions the race is taking place. But as said before, I believe that many have learned from the races done and I feel we'll manage it through South City. And we will learn some more there too. :thumb:

[anttt69]

I will return when the driving has improved. Enjoy your dodgems gentlemen.

[count.bazley]

How will you know when they've improved if you're not racing? Ironically enough we had a good day today and no-one has complained.

[Gentlefoot]

Yeah - GTRs really got the hang of things at South City. It's a much easier circuit than Fern Bay for the dual class format. I wouldn't have read so much into the results of that one race. At South City drivers seemed to find a great balance of patience and urgency. Some of the passing around the outside of tight corners will make for some awesome video footage.

[[RF]-art555]

Some of the passing around the outside of tight corners will make for some awesome video footage.
I've done a capture of the whle race using TV director. I'll be uploading it soon :)

[niall09]

I was really looking forward to this race, but unfortunately, personal reasons got in the way :(

[sokke]

I will return when the driving has improved. Enjoy your dodgems gentlemen.

You may return now, this house is clean now. :) In fact it wasn't a dodgy ride at all, and I even got time to miss a fellow FXO to race against after FiredUp vanished to horizon.

-art555;712844']I've done a capture of the whle race using TV director. I'll be uploading it soon :)

Good Stuff! Can't wait for it. :thumb:

[[RF]-art555]

Good Stuff! Can't wait for it. :thumb:

It will probably be Stage6 upload as its the only site that doesn't have strict size limits:schwitz:

PS. just a note, uncompressed file is 6,8 Gigs:schwitz:

[[RF]-art555]

ok, here is the video:

http://www.stage6.com/user/art555/video/2245536/GTTC-Round-4

(599Mb)

[Gentlefoot]

Race 5 was again run with no probs between classes. Drivers seem to be relishing this challenge and enjoying the added element it gives the racing now.

[StableX]

Really good racing Mr Foot. :)

[blackbird04217]

I enjoy it but I unfortunately didn't make event 5 and don't know if I can make the next one either : ( makes me sad cause the rest of the season was great! I've had tons of fun so keep up the great work guys!

[anttt69]

-art555;713592']ok, here is the video:

http://www.stage6.com/user/art555/video/2245536/GTTC-Round-4

(599Mb)

Do you have a smaller version? Looks like stage6 has closed down.

[[RF]-art555]

the original file is 6,8 Gigs so that was a compromise between quality and size, I can shrink it down more, but the quality will suffer :shrug:

[Zen321]

Maybe it's just my two cents worth, but I think the class mix isn't just that odd.
I've been involved in a LRF race, with 5 AI controlled UF1, and this was as well really challenging.
By the way, good luck for the next race of the season, i'm a great fan of this league ;)