somthing like a Miata?

[Tinytacohead]

Maybe I've missed the suggestion, or maybe it's already available with the S2 license, but a car much like the 1st generation Mazda Miata.. small, lightweight RWD roadster with, a small displacement, low output, smooth revving powerplant.

[ajp71]

Something like an MX5 on road tires would make a good addition, fast enough to be competitive with the XRT/FXO/LX4, but still very controlable and raceable, personally I've never been convinced with the XRT, it's far too tail happy.

[sinbad]

Something like an MX5 on road tires would make a good addition, fast enough to be competitive with the XRT/FXO/LX4, but still very controlable and raceable, personally I've never been convinced with the XRT, it's far too tail happy.
It'd take a much-faster-than-your-average MX5 to keep up with the LX4 and TBO cars.

To hell with classes anyway I say, the ones we have don't work. Don't compromise any more new cars by forcing them into "classes". One-model racing is just as much fun.

[5th Earth]

Rac?

[sinbad]

Well RAC in LFS is of a different spec to the one they've made anyway. 02/03 car has 228bhp, and the 05 one has 268bhp. LFS RA has 245bhp.

Anyone remember why it's different?

[Tinytacohead]

Yeah, I myself don't want an LX4 competitive Miata - that's not a Miata. I want lightweight, low HP, high grip, perfectly balanced, RWD roadster fun. Maybe a hotrod "Miata" for those that want it, but... I also agree, racing one type of car in races is fine, though it would be neat to race a few different classes in say, an enduro type event.

[Tweaker]

Yeah LX4 outruns the TBO class overall anyways. I don't even think the Miata could have a decent competitor with any of the cars. I'm pretty sure it could out run the XF and GT, but maybe if the 'miata' had a lack of power or something it would be decent.

I watched all sorts of classes of Miatas race at Laguna Seca, and they are really great cars. Also when I goto Auto-X events, they are top in that area too ;)

[Tinytacohead]

That's why I want one. (other than owning one :) ) Even if it had to run with only "Miata's", it'd have to be killer fun. I know it's a completely different game, but my favorite race on Granturismo 3 was the 2 hour enduro with stock Miata's. All you could change was tire compounds and which edition of the car you drove. I always ran the lowest HP edition and "crappier" tires, so I would run equal with the pack, and pitting had to be strategically timed. I want that, with all the nuances of LFS! Of course there could be a hotter, "Mazdaspeed" version that might be competitive with some other cars in the game, I'm not really sure there, I'm still S1 and a n00b. :razz:

[ajp71]

Maybe a Toyota MR2 would be about the same speed, although there wonderful low speed handling, making them brilliant road/rally cars is totally lost on them in terms of high speed stability, making them inappropriate for racing in standard trim.


To hell with classes anyway I say, the ones we have don't work. Don't compromise any more new cars by forcing them into "classes". One-model racing is just as much fun.

I agree that not everything need run at the same speed, but they can still race together using a handicap system, look at the 750 MC Birkett 6 hour relay at Silverstone each year, 3-6 car teams race against each other for six hours. The grid ranges from sevral Austin Seven and a Frazer Nash team to Radicals, Caterhams and Mallocks with all the usual club racing suspects in between. This year it was one by a team of MGs, although the star of the show was Baby Bertha (Gerry Marshall's small block powered Vauxhaul touring car).

2004 pictures - http://www.racedayimages.co.uk/2004/301004/index.html
2005 pictures (not quite sure about the Surtees Formula 1 car at the top :D) - http://www.paulsands.org/sil291005/6hr/birkett6.html

[durbster]

Maybe a Toyota MR2 would be about the same speed, although there wonderful low speed handling, making them brilliant road/rally cars is totally lost on them in terms of high speed stability, making them inappropriate for racing in standard trim.

eh, why on earth would you think they're unstable at high speed? The MX-5 is designed to handle at it's best at 60mph but it's perfectly capable up to and over 100mph.

Obviously, I'd love an MX-5/Miata in LFS and I think the only problem would be the lack of power which is a bit frustrating on track, and would make some of the bigger circuits in LFS incredibly dull. On the other hand, the autotests would be fantastic fun :)

I was really hoping the RaceAbout would recreate some of handling qualities of a well built roadster. At the moment it's some way off that, unfortunately, but I suspect that will improve significantly as LFS evolves.

[ajp71]

eh, why on earth would you think they're unstable at high speed? The MX-5 is designed to handle at it's best at 60mph but it's perfectly capable up to and over 100mph.


The comment was about the Toyota MR2s. The 750 MC ran a new championship for them this year and at Mallory every car in a 10 car grid managed to spin under braking for Gerrards (the fastest point on the circuit) at least twice. It may have been that the way they were designed they were getting unsettled on one bump or particular condition only found on the turn in to Gerrads, but my guess would be that that is not the case. These were standard MR2s so I'm sure that with a bit of sorting out the setup could be changed to suit faster cicuits. This would be a problem though if in S3 (like I hope it does) there is at least a server option to limit setups to what really can be changed, which on a standard MR2 would be absolutley nothing except little things like competition pads, safety modifications (so a bit of added strength from a cage).

http://www.mr2mk1club.com/MR2Challenge1.html

[durbster]

Ah I see, I figured you meant the later MR2s or MX-5s. Yes the mk1 and mk2 MR2s handle like water balloons, I wouldn't even consider putting them in LFS. The last generation MR2s are brilliant, however, it's just a shame Toyota made them look like Lego cars and forgot to put any luggage space in them.

[ajp71]

The mk2 MR2 was a complete disaster, but the mk1 MR2 was a (and still us) a very highly rated road car, not particuarly fast but handled beatifully at B road speeds. Lots of people had been asking why aren't there more of them racing in near standard spec, seeing as you can run them for stock hatch money, they're cheap, reliable and at road speeds very well handling little sports cars, when they put 10 of them in a race that question was soon answered ;)

[Tinytacohead]

I'd love to see all three gen's of MR2's in the game, but yes, specifically the first and third. Both great handling little cars - though it's obvious what styling Toyota was "copying" with the last one.. ;)

[ajp71]

No idea how many people look on the Leagues and Events forum, but I've posted a suggestion there for a system of handicap racing like I described in my post above.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3877

[Tinytacohead]

Yeah, handicaps could work out great. Of course my expierience is it can still be pretty hard to make handicaps work very well in a game-racing environment, but who wants things too easy, haha. Good idea for the big 3 to possibly toss around and see what they might come up with, at some point.

[ajp71]

The suggestion is really for a set of event, it would be easy for LFS to calculate a handicap at the end of a race, but in essence this type of race will only really work as an organised event.

[FPVaaron]

Sounds like a good idea for S3

[Fonnybone]

Back to the Miata...i always found the XR GT to be pretty damn close
both in specs and handling to the 2nd gen Miata ;) The only 'main'
difference being it's size, the XR GT is longer, taller, and probably a bit
wider. LFS spreads the weight within the 'volume' of the body i think
so that may cause some weight shifting differences. Apart from that,
they are very close imo.

[ajp71]

Maybe but it doesn't handle anything like an MX5 should.

[Tinytacohead]

Maybe but it doesn't handle anything like an MX5 should.

at all..

[Hankstar]

I'd like to see a little roadster for S3. The RAC is fun but completely crazy :D
I think if an MX5-like roadster could be included which is competitive with the XRGT and XFGTi, us guys who don't mind racing slowly could have some good battles :)
But then, the devs have received so many requests for new cars I wouldn't blame them if they're having trouble deciding whether to include one at all..oh well! Here's hoping.
:drink: Happy Festivus all!

[Tinytacohead]

I love slower racing, I think I might actually prefer it most of the time, haha. If they went with a 1st generation type, there's a few HP ratings they could choose from too, starting @ 102.. I could be wrong, but that might be pretty competitive with the XFGTi, and maybe an upper "Mazdaspeed" type version to compete with the XR GT Turbo or somthing. Personally I'm really after the lower HP version though.. High grip, balanced handling, low HP, lightweight roadster fun. They'd be a real blast, esecially on smaller, tighter tracks. :thumb:

[Fonnybone]

Maybe but it doesn't handle anything like an MX5 should.

I'm not sure why you feel this way. I drive a 2nd gen Miata LS from time
to time, i have it right now (looks outside, mmmmmmmiata :) ) and i find
it's pretty damn close. Subjective rating is nothing but, well, subjective.
Go do some tests and compare performance result and it's pretty damn
close. The turn-in is there, the 'just enough power not to get out of hand'
is very similar too. The main difference imo is the delivery of power. A
2nd gen Miata feels much more peaky, like a Honda.

[Tinytacohead]

for starters, a Miata isn't anywhere near as tail-happy in a turn. (I find the XRGT can be pretty easily myself) have you taken it to a parking lot and played? (at least not a 1st gen.., so that may very well be the discrepency here) I'm not sure exactly how the modeling works either, but a 2100lb'ish car will amost always feel a good bit different than a 2600lb'ish car. 4-500lbs makes a pretty noticeable difference when you get down to those weights and size powerplants, as does a car being wider/longer/taller. again, I'm compairing to my 1st gen, as I think it's overall simplicity would suit the game better. after noting some specs, maybe the 118 or 128hp variant would be a good competitor to the XFGTi. due to weight and whatnot, one of those might fair pretty fun against an XRGT too.. (slightly lower hp/weight vs. bigger/heavier etc)

[durbster]

I'm not sure why you feel this way. I drive a 2nd gen Miata LS from time
to time, i have it right now (looks outside, mmmmmmmiata :) ) and i find
it's pretty damn close. Subjective rating is nothing but, well, subjective.
Go do some tests and compare performance result and it's pretty damn
close.
Wow, I couldn't disagree more and the number of handling awards the MX-5 has won would also suggest otherwise. Under no circumstances has my MX-5 been as unstable as the XRGT. There is no comparison.

The MX-5 is a tail happy car but it is also a balanced one that only slides when you want it to, not on almost every turn of the wheel. Put simply, you have to be trying to drift to get an MX-5 to drift whereas the XRGT, like most of the LFS road cars, you spend half your time working to stop it drifting.

[Tinytacohead]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more and the number of handling awards the MX-5 has won would also suggest otherwise. Under no circumstances has my MX-5 been as unstable as the XRGT. There is no comparison.

The MX-5 is a tail happy car but it is also a balanced one that only slides when you want it to, not on almost every turn of the wheel. Put simply, you have to be trying to drift to get an MX-5 to drift whereas the XRGT, like most of the LFS road cars, you spend half your time working to stop it drifting.

Exactly.. that's what I meant in my previous post, it's very balanced, whereas the XRGT can pretty crazy pretty fast..

[ajp71]

I suppose the only MX5s I have seen being driven hard may have been set up for racing use so may have some of the tail happiness taken out of them but I really find it hard to beleive that they're as tail happy as the XRG, which is stupidly tail happy and definatley not a finely balanced small sports car ;)

[wheel4hummer]

The miata wouldn't need a class. In auto-x, a miata could beat a corvette at one event, and then a corvette could beat a MR2. etc. auto-x doesn't need classes! :shrug:

[Gimpster]

There are a lot of cars I woudl like to see a race prepped spec miata or FFR Cobra would be great. The honda S2000 is also a good choice to model a LFS car around.

As for the LXs and the RAC, with the right set they are a dream. Later after I get home I will post my LX4 and RAC sets for you all to play with and to show you the cars are the dreamlike little sports cars you hoped they would be. Took a long time to sort them out but it was worth it.

[Tinytacohead]

Cool, always looking forward to trying new setups. :thumb:

[Gimpster]

As promised The Roadsters Unleashed. I will add the LX6 later when I rebuild the set. The RAC is still a little tempermental but much better then it use to be. All will need slight adjustment to camber and tire pressure from track to track. Idealy you want to tires to have even heat at their inside edges and centers at or within 10F above optiimal temps after three laps.

[Tinytacohead]

:thumb: Was about to go link this thread in the setup forum, but figured I'd leave that to you. (as for all I know, you've already posted it there anyways, etc) Will hopefully try them out shortly. :)

EDIT-hey Gimpster, you know you're missing an I in your signature? "..Racng Union"

[micha1980de]

Maybe I've missed the suggestion, or maybe it's already available with the S2 license, but a car much like the 1st generation Mazda Miata.. small, lightweight RWD roadster with, a small displacement, low output, smooth revving powerplant.

to be honest, i think the mx-5 miata (or a clone) just deserves to be in lfs cause it was the most successful roadster ever.
in my opinion...
besides i mostly see one car-class races all the time (on public servers) (serious) mixed car races are pretty rare.


but who am i to argue about that with the devs huh?

[Tinytacohead]

Yep, I meant to wiggle that into one of my posts somewhere, and it just never made the leap to the keyboard, lol.. Just don't make it the latest generation of it, haha. (nice car, but..... we won't get into that one, lol)

[Gimpster]

:thumb: Was about to go link this thread in the setup forum, but figured I'd leave that to you. (as for all I know, you've already posted it there anyways, etc) Will hopefully try them out shortly. :)

EDIT-hey Gimpster, you know you're missing an I in your signature? "..Racng Union"

Doh! thanks

[Tinytacohead]

np. :)

[Math302ho]

Can't beleive I missed that thread!!

How about I yes to add a Miata in LFS :D Even if the XRG has similar spec... it is too tail happy and has an hardtop :tilt: At the worst, give me a XRG without a top and SUPER tire :D

[Michael Denham]

Another miata driver here who would love to see one in LFS! I think, with some improvements to the autox system, we could get an awful lot of autox drivers involved in LFS. And with a car with the specs of a Miata, I think we could pull a few more people in too! Practicing my autox skills at home in the same car I drive out there would be fantastic :)

[Reed]

Wow. I definately would have spoke up on getting a Miata-like car added to LFS years ago had I thought I'd have someone to back up the idea with me. Another "heck yeah" vote from me.

(Having owned two 1st gens, I'm pretty sure I'll never buy another type of car again.)

[tristancliffe]

Apparently, although I have yet to get a test drive, the 3rd gen version is rubbish in comparison - little feel and front end grip so I heard.

[durbster]

Apparently, although I have yet to get a test drive, the 3rd gen version is rubbish in comparison - little feel and front end grip so I heard.
Don't believe the hype.

It depends on the one you get, so it seems. The tolerances for setup from Mazda are so vague with the mk3 that it seems to be a matter of luck whether you get a good one or not. There's a story from the Hawaii launch where one journo was complaining about the lack of feel when a Mazda rep told him to take a different car. He came back again saying it was brilliant.

[Fonnybone]

hey, there's always the mkII :) Ahhh my little baby RX7 :D Timeless elegance if you ask me, just like the mkI will always be cute, always.

[Gimpster]

This thread is starting to slip. We can't have that.

If there is one car in LFS and really suprized me in its handeling and shear fun factor it is the XF GTR. It has a just the right combination of weight, power and grip to nmake for some really fun races. I would really like to see in the future, a Front engine, RWD car added which has about the same specs as the XF GTR. I do not care if its a Sedan, Family Coupe (Not a Fastback like the XR) or Roadster like a Miata. An AWD in the same size/weight/power class would also be a great addition for Rallycross. Any car added shoudl have Two trims, street and racce prepped.