will we be getting a christmas update this year ??

[Sp3cTr3]

Just wondering :D

[hrtburnout]

Maybe....

[colcob]

Dunno, Scawen said he'd be starting in earnest on the Physics re-vamp in January, so definitely dont expect a big patch. I guess there might be a little suprise but dont bank on it.

[noemfie]

One can only hope :) , the devs set a kind of a precedence by giving us “something” come Xmas day . But I think we should see S2 Alpha as our very early Xmas gift :thumb:

[Nick_ll]

No.

[Scawen]

No, sorry, there won't be anything this year.

In about November, we hoped to be able to get something together for Christmas, a minor physics update and a new config in one of the tracks. But in fact it became clear that would take too long... no-one really wants a minor physics update with bugs in it. They want a very well tested physics update, including aero and tyres.

Personally, i have been finishing my kitchen which has been in a half-completed state for seven years. Always considering tyre physics and so on, to get on with it in January.

[SladiVadi]

May I ask what's so bad about the tyres?

[Scawen]

May I ask what's so bad about the tyres?Well they are close to behaving correctly at all times, but not quite as good as real world tyres in some conditions.

It's mainly about some things they do when they are near their limit of grip, and just over the limit, and how it's affected by applying and removing the power.

BTW, if anyone asks me for more detailed answers, i won't give any. Nothing's clear until i've coded up several testing mechanisims, tyre test rigs and so on when i get back on the case with the physics.

[Blackout]

I dont know if this is asking for a more detailed answer, but is that slow speed skidding one of those tire bugs?

[SladiVadi]

Thanks a lot, Scawen! :spike:

[XRRoy]

I dont know if this is asking for a more detailed answer, but is that slow speed skidding one of those tire bugs?
yes it is:)

[B2B@300]

BTW, if anyone asks me for more detailed answers, i won't give any. Nothing's clear until i've coded up several testing mechanisims, tyre test rigs and so on when i get back on the case with the physics.

Code tyre test rigs :scratchch that sounds very interesting :thumb: would allow comparisons to real world test data I would guess :) or at least testing the sim tyres in a controlled environment...

Have a great xmas Scawen, Victor and Eric :D and see you in the new year! It sounds like a year full of promise :tilt:

[AndroidXP]

May I ask what's so bad about the tyres?
Well, the racers cry that there's something wrong, so ask them :D

No seriously, the slow speed (< 30-40 km/h) physics are kinda funky, then we also have the dreaded "silent lockups" and contrary to the lesson description, stomping on gas/brake is equally effective as feathering the pedal on the accelleration and brake tests. Also some claim that "regaining grip" is not realistic, but that may be attributed to point #1.

For new features there probably should be a temperature dependend tyre pressure and the amount of dirt that sticks to the tyre should also be proportional to tyre heat.

[Blackout]

yes it is:)

Its asking for too detailed answer or its one of those bugs?

[XRRoy]

Its asking for too detailed answer or its one of those bugs?
the bug thingy:smileypul

[Scawen]

For new features there probably should be a temperature dependend tyre pressurePressure already varies with temperature (of course).

It's only a few psi difference when the tyre gets quite a lot hotter.

The absolute pressure (relative to a vacuum) is proportional to absolute temperature (relative to absolute zero = -273 degrees C).

[Frankmd]

I'm wondering if the tyre pressure in the setup screen is relative to atmospheric pressure, or absolute? I always thought it was absolute, but recently someone suspected it was relative to the atmospheric pressure.

[bobvanvliet]

a new config in one of the tracks.

Woohoo :thumb:.

Have a nice and relaxed christmas and newyear, team!

[Blackout]

Heh..missed that part of the post :D Now we can start pondering which track would it be, Kyoto or Aston...or something else :scratchch

[XRRoy]

i go for Kyoto....:thumb:

[mrodgers]

I'm going to go opposite of what everyone else wishes for before Christmas and say Thanks Scawen, because this is my last day at work and last day with fast internet until January. It will be dialup only for 2 weeks at home and I would be pulling my hair out to download an update over my holiday break, LOL. I don't want an update now until at least January, hehehe.

But if you want to release something today before 3:00 pm (15:00) my time, go right ahead :D .

[felplacerad]

it's great that scawen made it clear for us not to expect anything. hopefully it will keep the nagging and whining to a minimum this year.

merry merry

[KiDCoDEa]

May I ask what's so bad about the tyres?

lowspeed burnouts overperformance. in other words, the longitudinal grip at high longitudinal slipangles is too high (not enuff performance loss, both on power and braking, but especially on power).
also during this state (high longitudinal slipangle) the lateral grip should be a tad more.
these are adjustments, slight tweaks, nothing radical.

then there are other more "core" stuff and a few things to implement but im not gonna talk about them ;)

[AndroidXP]

Pressure already varies with temperature (of course).

It's only a few psi difference when the tyre gets quite a lot hotter.

The absolute pressure (relative to a vacuum) is proportional to absolute temperature (relative to absolute zero = -273 degrees C).
Oh really? That's great :thumbsup:

Looks like it just doesn't make that much of a difference at all. I just suspected this missing because I recently messed with the MRT trying to get an equal tyre load during maximum cornering. So, changing the camber wasn't a big deal but the load still showed the center having less load then the outer tyre parts. I figured this means that the tyres have not enough pressure and so I upped it. I tried again and saw the same thing, although a bit weaker.

Figuring that this may fix itself when the tyres heat up I made a few burnouts to make sure the inner temp is green, then tested the loads again. There was no difference so I thought the inner temp doesn't modify pressure.


So in conclusion, never trust any 'facts' that don't come directly from the devs :D

[Scawen]

I'm wondering if the tyre pressure in the setup screen is relative to atmospheric pressure, or absolute? I always thought it was absolute, but recently someone suspected it was relative to the atmospheric pressure.It's relative to atmospheric pressure, just like all tyre pressure measurements in real life. A totally flat tyre reads 0 psi on any guage. But in fact it's not really 0 psi, it's atmospheric pressure. No tyre guage will tell you that a flat tyre is pressurised to 14.7 psi. :)

[Qurpiz]

...a new config in one of the tracks.


*fingers crossed* Please let it be in KY, or WE National *fingers crossed*

To the topic: I was hoping there would be something for Christmas, but I can do without.

[thisnameistaken]

*fingers crossed* Please let it be in KY, or WE National *fingers crossed*

It's more likely to be Aston, since there are bits of existing circuit which could be combined to make a new config and wouldn't require any (or much) additional work. That said, it would make sense to add a new config to Westhill because it only has one.

[NotAnIllusion]

Ah but where would you put a new config on Westhill? I don't think there's any spare track sections to do that with.. unless of course there will be :scratchch

*edit: Thank you Scawen for replying, you guys are doing a fantastic job! :D

[Flotch]

I bet on Aston, they have always said (before S2 alpha release) Aston will have 5 or 6 tracks combination...and we have 'only' 5 :p
But for christmas, before havind read Scawen's post, as a present, I was thinking to the "subaru" we can see in the background of the options' screen. :shrug: :razz:
Merry christmas to all BTW, come back with good news for us in January or February :thumb:

[Qurpiz]

It's more likely to be Aston, since there are bits of existing circuit which could be combined to make a new config and wouldn't require any (or much) additional work. That said, it would make sense to add a new config to Westhill because it only has one.

Yes, I'm also afraid it will be Aston. But the reason I'm kinda believeing it could be Westhill is because of the track coming from the infield (look the pic). And also, the We Nat would be very, very good thing to have because now WE is probably the least used environment.

And in Kyoto we could have that 13-something kilometer config with not that much of work.

EDIT:
the original aerial pic is by andylec.

[thisnameistaken]

Well I was thinking if it was going to be Westhill, a new rallyx config would be nice. There's such a big area inside the track that you could have a really long run in the dirt :D

[DeeS]

would be nice rally with one lap about 2 min !!ach (rb4) :d

marry christmas; )

[wheeler]

I don't expect any small LfS surprises this year; better well rested developers which return in 2006 full of good spirit :)

nice xmas and happy new year.

[hrtburnout]

Well I was thinking if it was going to be Westhill, a new rallyx config would be nice. There's such a big area inside the track that you could have a really long run in the dirt :D

Yeah, I thought of a rally-x config too, because we really need one and Wetshill currently has only 1 config. Now where's the Group B RB4 :razz:

[Honey]

Scawen, thanks for clarifing us (without compromising yourself :D ) the issues you will work on and to not expect anything before christmas, but i always have a question: on what aspects is Eric working on? ...or at least is he working on something in particular like a fresh new track/config/car or he is working on improving graphics of present lfs content?

...if you prefer to not answer/compromise yourself, i will understand :) but i'm curious, soi just tryied asking ? :)

[XCNuse]

Pressure already varies with temperature (of course).

It's only a few psi difference when the tyre gets quite a lot hotter.

The absolute pressure (relative to a vacuum) is proportional to absolute temperature (relative to absolute zero = -273 degrees C).
lol yall should see this old black basketball i have.. its pretty flat, i can put my whole fist in it for the rest of it to be round; anyways, when i threw it around to my dog during summer the ball would get so much heat in it from the sun that it would just presurize itself and my dog couldn't get his teeth around to hold it anymore :) .. good stuff

[PLAYLIFE]

Scawen, thanks for clarifing us (without compromising yourself :D ) the issues you will work on and to not expect anything before christmas, but i always have a question: on what aspects is Eric working on? ...or at least is he working on something in particular like a fresh new track/config/car or he is working on improving graphics of present lfs content?

...if you prefer to not answer/compromise yourself, i will understand :) but i'm curious, soi just tryied asking ? :)


Yeah, I am also wondering what Eric is working on :D

Eric :wave2: what have you been up to lately ? :D

Have a nice Christmas btw.

P.S. I hope the new track config will be an interesting layout to race on. Better make a good track than one that people will not use :)

[Scawen]

P.S. I hope the new track config will be an interesting layout to race on. Better make a good track than one that people will not use :)It's unlikely that his intention would be to make one that no-one would use.

[MyBoss]

Hehe, good point scawen. lol :-)

[PLAYLIFE]

It's unlikely that his intention would be to make one that no-one would use.

:( :x

[SacoMan]

What about that Dune buggy you guys used to use for testing :thumb:

[KiDCoDEa]

little dune buggggy, in the saaaaaaaand
my little blue dune buggy in my haaaaaaaands

[Vendetta]

Have a very merry christmas Scawen, Eric and Victor. :)

[Mikkel Petersen]

What about that Dune buggy you guys used to use for testing :thumb:

What dune buggy? :scratchch

[hrtburnout]

/me wonders if we will get a dune buggy for rally-x driving :scratchch

[three_jump]

it's always the same with you guys...
One of the devs says something and you start to interpret every word until you get a total different meaning of what was said.
Scawen said in his first post, that there won't be any updates this year and you just start thinking the opposite :pillepall.

I wish you all some nice days with nice presents etc, Scawen a nice yummy dinner in his finished kitchen, and all 3 some nice days off :)

3j

[Smurfen]

lol..:tilt:

[Billeh]

Have a very merry christmas Scawen, Eric and Victor. :)

from me too also like to say if i havent allready thanks for a really great game :) it gets better and better the more i play it :) thanks again and have a great chrimbo and new year :)

[Flotch]

it's always the same with you guys...
One of the devs says something and you start to interpret every word until you get a total different meaning of what was said.
Scawen said in his first post, that there won't be any updates this year and you just start thinking the opposite :pillepall.
that is not true, no-one still think we will have something for christmas, it is just some ideas on what we could have had :thumbsup:
:pillepall

[tristancliffe]

Great thread, thanks to Scawen!! I liked the little insights into LFS. I can't say I'm not disappointed not to have a Christmas patch, but by the sounds of it so were SEV.

Have a good Christmas, a Merry New Year, and we look forward to LFS's progress in the new year!

Rock On!

[PLAYLIFE]

Great thread, thanks to Scawen!! I liked the little insights into LFS. I can't say I'm not disappointed not to have a Christmas patch, but by the sounds of it so were SEV.

Have a good Christmas, a Merry New Year, and we look forward to LFS's progress in the new year!

Rock On!

What is SEV?

[ATHome]

SEV = Scawen, Eric, Victor :smileypul

[X-Ter]

Patch or no patch, doesn't matter. Have a Very Merry Christmas. I know I will.

[keiran]

Have a good Christmas everyone and the devs :)

Keiran

[ORION]

nice one Scawen ;)

[Racer Y]

LOL So this is kinda like an update on there NOT being an update, right?

HA ha ha that's cool.
And I dunno. A lot can be said for making a configuration that NO ONE will use. It can be full of bugs and glitches and no one will know or even care!
You know, unless of course that's the reason no one would use it. Then that would sort a suck, but otherwise it would be a win-win deal.

The tire/physics problems being worked on some more is a good thing I guess. And I'm glad Scawen didn't go into detail about this process as I don't think 90% of us would have understood it anyways. And I would've just been confused instead of enlightened.

All that being said, Have a good holidays.

[MyBoss]

All I wish for christmas is a small progress report :tilt:

[tristancliffe]

All I wish for christmas is a small progress report :tilt:

But we just did - kitchen being done now, update work to start in January. What do you want in the "Christmas Report"? Perhaps "Just as I said on Monday night, I haven't done anything note worthy on LFS". Would that actually make you happier, even though he already told us?

[Vendetta]

but by the sounds of it so were SEV.


The devs even have their own internet slang! :smileypul:D

[cannonfodder]

it's great that scawen made it clear for us not to expect anything. hopefully it will keep the nagging and whining to a minimum this year.

merry merry
I just hope later on people remember he's only starting work in January and not releasing something.

[tinyk]

little dune buggggy, in the saaaaaaaand
my little blue dune buggy in my haaaaaaaandslol started celebrating the holidays a lil bit early? :D


~*~*~*~tinyk~*~*~*~

[felplacerad]

lol started celebrating the holidays a lil bit early? :D


~*~*~*~tinyk~*~*~*~


it's a song by a band called presidents of the united states of america

[Qurpiz]

But we just did - kitchen being done now, update work to start in January. What do you want in the "Christmas Report"? Perhaps "Just as I said on Monday night, I haven't done anything note worthy on LFS". Would that actually make you happier, even though he already told us?

Well that was Scawens "progress report". I'd like to know what Eric's been up to, or what Victor has been doing (besides trying to keep forums free from trolls).

But anyways, nice to know that tyre-physics are next in line.

[deggis]

I'd like to see a new shorter config of Kyoto. It's such a great track but too long so no one wants to drive it on public servers. As you see in the picture this would be good way to make a short version but still include (IMO) the best section from the track. But this would need a whole new grid line and pit. I think that straight should be long enough for a new pit. What do you think?

http://torttu.net/temp/lfs/kyoto_club.jpg

[Sp3cTr3]

now THAT would be an awesome layout :thumb:

[zurdospeed]

yes it would!

[Shotglass]

i bet scawen just tries to keep our hopes down so the update will come as a total surprise :p

[ORION]

And make it first in the list, because the first layout is always driven most...
Damn this Oval :P

[SchneeFee]

I'd like to see a new shorter config of Kyoto. It's such a great track but too long so no one wants to drive it on public servers. As you see in the picture this would be good way to make a short version but still include (IMO) the best section from the track. But this would need a whole new grid line and pit. I think that straight should be long enough for a new pit. What do you think?

http://torttu.net/misc/lfs/kyoto_club.jpg

indeed i really would like to see this config some time :nod:

[AndroidXP]

Damn this Oval :PWhile I agree on that (;)) I don't think that would change anything for the oval. It's kind of a "special" (lol pun) track and some people will always be fascinated by the challenge it provides.
i bet scawen just tries to keep our hopes down so the update will come as a total surprise :pYeah, on January 1st, S3 is released, didn't you know that? :p

[Kashopi]

i bet scawen just tries to keep our hopes down so the update will come as a total surprise :p

That reminds me all those rumours about the S2 Final release in June 2005 :-P

[ajp71]

Wishing the devs a very Merry Christmas

You all deserve a break :)

But if you get bored I've attached a suggestion for a new Westhill config, the 'North Loop' ;)

[XRRoy]

Wishing the devs a very Merry Christmas

You all deserve a break :)

But if you get bored I've attached a suggestion for a new Westhill config, the 'North Loop' ;)
hehehe, good one:thumb:

[three_jump]

Wishing the devs a very Merry Christmas

You all deserve a break :)

But if you get bored I've attached a suggestion for a new Westhill config, the 'North Loop' ;)

rofl :huepfenic

[mrbogeyman]

it's a song by a band called presidents of the united states of america

ahhh! i know that one but you were so out of tune i couldnt make it out :P

[felplacerad]

ahhh! i know that one but you were so out of tune i couldnt make it out :P

ah sorry i get that alot, however it was actually kid who sang.

[branney]

It's relative to atmospheric pressure, just like all tyre pressure measurements in real life. A totally flat tyre reads 0 psi on any guage. But in fact it's not really 0 psi, it's atmospheric pressure. No tyre guage will tell you that a flat tyre is pressurised to 14.7 psi. :)

oh no! i just replaced a tyre i had with a slow leak, because after 1 week it would drop from 33psi to 16psi.

i thought that meant it had lost almost ALL pressure, but now i realise it had only lost 1/2 the relative pressure!

oh well, at least i now have 4 decent tyres for winter...

[AndroidXP]

Well, if you're keen on pumping it up every other day then you may have wasted some money, but if not, it was a good investment. Both in comfort and security. A tyre running at half it's designated pressure isn't exactly trustworthy, you know.

[tristancliffe]

oh no! i just replaced a tyre i had with a slow leak, because after 1 week it would drop from 33psi to 16psi.

i thought that meant it had lost almost ALL pressure, but now i realise it had only lost 1/2 the relative pressure!

oh well, at least i now have 4 decent tyres for winter...

If the pressure gauge measured absolute pressure, it would always show 14.7psi on the scale ;)

Edit: Unless you were in a partial vacuum.

[DeXteRrBDN]

Wishing the devs a very Merry Christmas

You all deserve a break :)

But if you get bored I've attached a suggestion for a new Westhill config, the 'North Loop' ;)

Really nice one! This new 'layout' would be really amazing!!

[Flotch]

ajp71 : I fully agree with you :thumb:

[loopingz]

Thanks for the info scawen !

[bbman]

Wishing the devs a very Merry Christmas

You all deserve a break :)

But if you get bored I've attached a suggestion for a new Westhill config, the 'North Loop' ;)
Where exactly is the Westhill part? :D

[Sp3cTr3]

Wishing the devs a very Merry Christmas

You all deserve a break :)

But if you get bored I've attached a suggestion for a new Westhill config, the 'North Loop' ;)

+1

[STROBE]

Where exactly is the Westhill part? :D
At a guess, I'd say over 500 miles away. :D

[Shotglass]

Where exactly is the Westhill part? :D

bottom left

[inCogNito]

i hope it will be also available without the wehsthill part! ;)

[CrazyICE]

fully agree InC :)

[XCNuse]

If the pressure gauge measured absolute pressure, it would always show 14.7psi on the scale ;)

Edit: Unless you were in a partial vacuum.

what if you were in a low pressure zone?
..or a high one at that :scratchch

[tristancliffe]

Low pressure is just a partial vacuum relative to atmospheric pressure. AS for high pressure, even a high pressure day won't show any change on most scales.

But yes, if you are pointing out that atmospheric pressure isn't FIXED at 14.7 then you are right.

[letdown427]

Sometimes Tristan, sometimes, you're kind of boring :razz:

I'm just jumping on the thanks do the devs band wagon, awesome game, thanks for letting us play some small part in it.:thumb:

[Barroso]

no christmas present this year :(

[axus]

I was kinda hoping for an LX8 GTR (seing as the model was already there and everything - noone has told us why it actually got scraped) with slicks and no or fixed downforce, but guess not... No worries though - the new year shows much promise and it sounds like the physics will be better than ever once Scawen is through with them. :thumb:

Best wishes for the dev team in the new year!

[Qurpiz]

I was kinda hoping for an LX8 GTR (seing as the model was already there and everything - noone has told us why it actually got scraped)

I thought we were told, It would have been too difficult to drive, and now we have a competitor for XFR.
But then again, why couldn't we have both LX8 and UFR? After all, more cars is more cars.

[axus]

I thought we were told, It would have been too difficult to drive, and now we have a competitor for XFR.
But then again, why couldn't we have both LX8 and UFR? After all, more cars is more cars.

I'm pretty sure there are lunies out there that would love to give it a try. One right here! After all we get good times out of the raceabout... don't we?

[Nighthawk]

Well i think the DEVS are making a great JOB! LFS is FAR AWAY the best sim seen here on EARTH!

Everyday is for me X-MAS when i start LFS! ;)

So keep up the good work, Scawen, Eric and Victor! ur doing a great JOB!
Hope u have a great Chrsitmas, enjoy ur free Days! (Hope u have one)

(Sorry about my bad english)

Enough sayed, keep up with ur work, and it`ll be great!

HAPPY X-MAS!

Cheers
N!ght

[deggis]

LX8 GTR would be just LOONY. :D

And would a GTR version of LX be that realistic? LX is based on Westfield Seven (or Caterham Seven) and isn't LX6 already in sort of a race version of what they're driving in real life series?

PS.
http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy/course2_val_de_vienne_voiture_18.wmv
http://supervroum.noalia.net/chameau/spy

Some Caterham racing. :thumb: