Season 3, Pre-discussion

[Fischfix]

is there a need or a wish for a 3rd season?

i know we ended the 2nd season without finishing it correctly, but in the end it did not make sense at all the way we were progressing with it. nobody was showing up and a lot of people just gave me headaches :)

i have several ideas in mind to improve the whole thing a lot and we also have some new tools which will help me organizing it.

but first of all i need to know if there is some interest in this kind of league.

my ideas for a 3rd season are:
- only 5-6 races (KY1, KY1 rev, KY Chicane/Swing, KY360, maybe the speedway (not sure though), maybe a circuit)
prevents for losing interest in the whole thing. season 2 was just too many races

- open to all GTRs OR (if there is more interest: FO8)
its up to you which GTR you are going to select pre-season
- race lenght: around 120 laps (80 min.)
- AUTOMATED pace-car for flying starts (AI)
- maybe a Tire restriction, to force more pitstops (not sure though)
- higher standard in driver selection (increase lapcount, laptime)
- reduced time needed for qualifyings (maybe race result from last race upside down, only new drivers qualify for positions BEHIND the last race winner, or something like that)
- completely new points-system, more like on cycling track racing, with two "sprint-bonus" during the race.
so the first car in e.g. in lap 35 and 75 will get a 5 point bonus
right after that a 3 lap CAUTION is given out to close all gaps in the field
- CAUTION during race NOT for crashed cars ONLY after a "sprint bonus"
in fact, the sprint bonus laps are given out before each race, so you know actually in which lap there will be a caution before the race
- NO entering the pits during a caution, but if you are in the pits while a caution is given out you can make the pitstop. this brings the conclusion up: either you are going for a bonus or you are going to the pits :)
- penalties are given out ONLY during the race by an admin (only Stop and Go or DriveThrough
- if there is an incident during a race which needs reviewing (on purpose crashing or something like this) there is only one decision: "disqualification" or "no disqualification", there won't be any points penalties like in season 2

all this things are under discussion.


let's get ready to mumble!!!!!!

[-NightFly-]

Sounds good...I like the indiecar(fo8) Just don't drop the GTR's. Also i think of more pitstops by adding tyre restrictions sounds good, makes things a bit more interesting.
I did miss season 2 mostly because I was aiming for 2008 season.

Is there any specificy for starting date (ex: month?) I hope it starts after march then our team Ovallers big cheese can take part also.

And another thing: And are u going to be more selective with entering competitors. If I remember correctly there was a ctra Silver licence reguired or a specific laptime(wich I don't remember).

main cars should still be GTR's ( no BF1 please :schwitz: )

[Fischfix]

no dates at the moment


yes drivers will need to have a certain laptime and lapcount to participate. i think even higher standards then the "[FM] Nascar500" Server requires (i think its 1000 laps/a 39.20). i was thinking about 2500 laps AND a PB of 39.00 or below on the oval with the car you want to participate (in GTR class)


i would love to have 2 leagues, one for GTRs and one for FO8, but i think its too time consuming, BUT with the short season of 5 races i can think about several ways to have alternating events.:shrug:

[mutt107]

i would want xrt or xrg :(

[-NightFly-]

well laptimes are perfect but don't fit with laps (lastone is going to be a issue ...for me at least) I consider myself out atm with amount of laps : XRR 1783 laps and FZR 1543 laps (...BF1 5822 laps:x)
:schwitz:

and yes...short event is a good way to keep drivers intrest until end

[UncleBenny]

Yeah, 2500 laps is kind of ridiculous, that's something like 30 hours of driving. If it takes you that long to figure out how to drive on the oval, then maybe you shouldn't be racing there in the first place. Racers need to be judged on talent, not how many thousand laps they've done.

[Fischfix]

thats a misunderstanding: 2500 laps with all GTRs TOGETHER and a BP of 39.00 or below with the car you are going to race *g*

if it will be a fo8 thing then i think BF1 and FO8 together lapcount of 3000


but don't nail me on this right now... its just to early to give that exact numbers out.(my stats are something like 1500 with FXR and FZR each and 3500 with XRR; 10000 FO8 and around 5000 with the BF1 on the oval)

[Fischfix]

i know racers should be judged not according to their laps BUT there is no other way at the moment. there is no way i can find out if a driver is a good racer and knows how to act on an oval with 10 cars around him with this way, but at least i can see how many laps he did.

i wish there would be a stat telling me things like:
races joined, average position, average amount of people in the race, average race-results, how many times causing a yellow flag. (and this only for oval/ovalreverse and GTR class.

CTRA is perfect for this kind of stuff but sadly there is no "CTRA Oval" license

[-NightFly-]

cheers up...
yes things look promising :scratchch
CTRA is perfect for this kind of stuff but sadly there is no "CTRA Oval" license
now there's a good idea :D

[mutt107]

cheers up...
yes things look promising :scratchch
now there's a good idea :Di bet CTRA thinks the same thing about oval (thats its not racing) most people think that :(

[Hazze]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2610

That would be great in S3 :thumb:

[Stefani24]

id be up for it.
maybe with the bf1, its fun to drive oval with that.
but i like the gtrs more than the fo8

[-NightFly-]

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2610

That would be great in S3 :thumb:
could u please clarify what does this had to do with LFSCAR upcoming season? :D

[AstroBoy]

I have a slight problem with the sprint points bonus, though i proberly wont enter the series because of my timezone.

The sprint points you propose the field coming back together 2 problems.
1. Crashes have more chances of happaning during the period leading upto it thats a known fact.
2. Unless there a full team of 9 you cant get the full effect of the sprint bonus lol no team captian or sprinter using his men up for the final push.

But seriously i think the sprint idea might be pretty cool im just putting my thoughts out there.

[Fischfix]

the thing with the crashing is true as i have experienced it before.

i have two solutions in mind:
1) everyone knows before the race when there will be a sprint bonus and therefor the Caution after that
2) high driver standard, crashing during a FCY will result in a disqualification


i had a discussion about this sprint thing with one of my team members, and i am a bit in doubt if the "1)" thing is necessary if the "2)" thing is high enough.


the main problem in the first two seasons was simply the fact, we had a lot of drivers who were not supposed to race in a league, as their experience was not high enough. the second reason was my own fault, as i did not reject them in the first place or gave them one chance after another to improve. to make this clear, in a third season, there won't be anything like that.

first of all, the driver selection will be much firmer, and second of all, if a driver makes a mistake he has to deal with the consequences.
i call this "no noobs policy" (not the team!)

[Kristjan.J]

I would like to drive FXR or XRT. Just my opinion. (I wish that last word was right)

[aroX123]

Indy!:thumb:

[Fischfix]

if its going to be the "indy style thing" it probably will be called


ILS



for the "Nascar style series" i'd probably stick to LFSCAR 360° CUP SERIES

[aroX123]

if its going to be the "indy style thing" it probably will be called


ILS



for the "Nascar style series" i'd probably stick to LFSCAR 360° CUP SERIES
Nice:D
When will this be?

[KeiichiRX7]

Fischfix, i do believe an openwheel division would deffinitely require more skilled drivers, but the one make GTR's provide the best competition, in my experience so far.

Both would make for incredibly exciting racing. The GTR's allow for a llittle fender to fender and fighting for the positions, while the F1 cars or Formula V8's would be just as exciting because you cant get away with the contact, you have to fight cleanly or end up outof the race.

I'm all for a tire restriction, anything to increase the level of competition is good.

[J@mes]

Vote for the FO8

:)

Maybe this time i could beat yankman...

[hariel-HUN-]

Hi,

I like the ISL thing, and I'd like to participate the whole season this time! I think the biggest problem was the time. On Mondays people don't have enough time to race through midnight. (Me too, I have jobs to do the next day...) So maybe a weekend day would be better (Saturday especially).

Other 1:

There should two races on each race weekend a GTR, and a Single Seater event. One of them should be the feature race. I would race on each race.

Other 2:

Last weekend I joined the FM's BF1 server, and I was totally surprised about the behave of the people there. FM guys (Keny Popps, and Faliure, maybe others too) was - how can I say - very unkind. First I was kicked because I was using the whole racetrack , they said I was blocking (watch this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_LlKlWY1zBg or this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=2GUAuraSwFQ. I don't think they are racing unfair. They are RACING, keeping position.) Than I won the race and I became the worst man in the universe. Thank you, but I know what I am doing. Watch my results on CTRA single seater.
I am respecting you Fishfix very much, I know you tried everything to keep the LFSCAR season 2 together. I respect the other FM members too. Keny, Popps, Faliure: I know you are very fast drivers, maybe faster than me, but you should not behave like this. I was quited without saying bye.:schwitz:

Btw, I hope the season 3 would last to the final race!

[hariel-HUN-]

1 more thing:
I've just red, that you are willing to organize BF1 race on oval. My suggestion is: don't. Because in LFS the fastest package between the user to the server is 6 times/second. I think it's too weak. at 340 kmh 167 miliseconds is too long. There will be a lot of crash because of the lag. What do you think?

[pacesetter]

I have never raced in this league before but i am interested in joining this season. Why dont you go with the indy and gtr idea and at the end of the season you could do the top 10 people in each league racing in the 'champions' race in a neutral car. This might provide something exciting

[Dennis93]

Mr. Galindohhhhh would go for XRR again :D with ze Zero monstrum

[Fischfix]

@ hariel-HUN- (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=117970)
thanks for your kindness. the thing with the FM oval server is, the simple fact it is public. and therefore there are some rules which makes live easier there. the rules are set up by the server host, and there is no discussion about it (blocking, staying on track...) which is good imo. as long as everyone is staying gentle and does not use swear words this system works for most of the time.

on the event server the rules are set up by the event host. therefore i do not have such things as "don't block the inside,..." in events, as it is part of racing imo.

i would love to do 2 series to be honest, but i do not have the time/capacity to do so. but i like the idea, with having a "race of champions" in the end in a neutreal car (like the LX6 *g*)


@dennis: the 0 monstroum *gg*

[Dennis93]

@ hariel-HUN- (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=117970)
thanks for your kindness. the thing with the FM oval server is, the simple fact it is public. and therefore there are some rules which makes live easier there. the rules are set up by the server host, and there is no discussion about it (blocking, staying on track...) which is good imo. as long as everyone is staying gentle and does not use swear words this system works for most of the time.

on the event server the rules are set up by the event host. therefore i do not have such things as "don't block the inside,..." in events, as it is part of racing imo.

i would love to do 2 series to be honest, but i do not have the time/capacity to do so. but i like the idea, with having a "race of champions" in the end in a neutreal car (like the LX6 *g*)


@dennis: the 0 monstroum *gg*

hehe :D you gotta update it then :D contact me on msn if u need any kind of help mate .!:thumbsup::thumb::smileypul

[Fischfix]

just a short news-intermission: INDYCAR and Champcar joined forces again irl!

which will make me think about making something like: LFSCART :)

oval and circuit races with a competetive points-system...

[scania]

XRG or MRT
slow, but fun

[Kristjan.J]

Actually the FO8 would be also alot fun, my vote goes for it also.

[scania]

Actually the FO8 would be also alot fun, my vote goes for it also.
You can contral the drift with XRG & MRT in Top Speed:D

[NoYPiDRiFTER]

I might start joining this league, because it seems fun to drive around the oval, since I was doing it for fun! :P

[Fuse5]

Will join the league, if it starts off nicely.

Making broadcasts is also an option to make the league more popular ;)

[TFalke55]

i would love to do 2 series to be honest, but i do not have the time/capacity to do so. but i like the idea, with having a "race of champions" in the end in a neutreal car (like the LX6 *g*)


what about an partnership with another League organisator, sothat you don't have to do the work all on your own? that could give the time to run both!

just a short news-intermission: INDYCAR and Champcar joined forces again irl!

which will make me think about making something like: LFSCART :)

oval and circuit races with a competetive points-system...

You stole my idea! :D I wanted to make a series with both, road and oval circuits, with the season highlight: The 2008 Kyoto 500. This race is organised by New Dimension Racing Events, and I'd have declared it an official event of this series (ok, I'd spoken with J@tko, the head of the organisation, before, to be sure it is ok)

[Fischfix]

i did not steel it. i am glad if you will do the indy kind of thing...

that sounds cool...where is the link to your league? because... if you do the indy thing i can do the lfscar (gtr) league and may be joining in your league as a driver *g*:shrug:

my ideas for the indy thing were: ky1, ky1 rev, ky1 chicane, south city town, mabe another aston config, ky1 500, something like that, just a few suggestions. the old CART points system seems to be the fairest... but i also thought about a more "active" system where people will get 1 point for every lap they are doing. so people stay on the server even if they crash out at first half of the race.

[TFalke55]

At this moment I don't have a link... I made some notes on paper how it could look like.
I just wanted to make a thread to get everything together (someone who host, some admins, and first ideas about the system i planned), but then read here this. So that's what I now posted http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=747580#post747580

[lizardfolk]

Fischfix, TFalke, I do have one thing that I want to bring to your attention.

There's been a request and some interest for an XRT stock car league (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=40959).

Now, I've already gathered up some people who are willing to help make the XRT oval league go through, however, you two are also planning an oval league.

I dont think there's enough room for three oval leagues so here's my proposal:

All oval based leagues join in one subforum (and within a subforum there'll be subcategories for stock car and indy if you guys want to keep it separate).

Fisch, what do you want to do? I hope that both you and I can combine our efforts and make the stock car league. (But I would really want it to he XRT instead of the XRR).

The ball's in your court guys

[TFalke55]

hmm... I do not know yet what to think about it. Normally it is natural selection wich league survives. Champcar died in the end, while IndyCar lives on (official it was a merger but hmm). :( A subforum would be nice, just to have one place to orginise some stuff. :) But this just left a big big "boom" flashing through my head. :shrug:

[Fischfix]

to be honest, my league will not start until june, as i wont be able to race until end of may due to job issues so, just go ahead with your leagues.

what i can do is helping to provide a webpage for every oval league and let it run under the domain www.lfscar.com with subdomains for the leagus

there is actually only one rFactor league running, so there is plenty of room to add your leagues. i can setup the websites with wordpress and a basic "racing" layout just like the gp79 design but with different colors and you guys will get admin rights for your leagues. so you can write the articles, rules, tracks and results ect.
so we can have something like:

LFSCAR XRT STOCK CAR LEAGUE
LFSCAR INDY LEAGUE
LFSCAR 360° CUP SERIES (with he GTR class)
gathered on one page.

i also can do the logos if you want to. and setup a forum, allthough my experience with a private forum were not good. i had a private forum in season one of lfscar and the private forum was not used the way i wanted it to be used, so i switched to the official forum. maybe if we have those 3 leagues running we can get a subforum here for each league but gathered under the lfscar main thread. the only requirement i have is: the leagues should be somehow be semipro. i don't want any kindergarden on my webspace and under the name of lfscar. so the admins or the one who is responsible for the league should be at least 18 years old.

what do you think?

[lizardfolk]

See, that's great, but my only concern is if there's enough interest to fill up all three leagues. Having one oval league is no problem in LFS, having two is probably pushing it, however having three....i dont know.

I mean I can't say for certain if people will be interested or not.

I do want all the oval leagues to be under one website and under one forum (with three subforum). The CART league is already a go. But how about this, since your league is starting so late. What if we ran my stock car league staggered to your 360. In other words, I run my league first, then when season 1 is completed you run your 360 league. (mines is about 7-9 races).

[Fischfix]

yep, sounds ok for me. why not *g*

[lizardfolk]

If you dont mind and since Storm Racing's hosting, I'd like to call it StormCup.

However, fischfix, would you mind giving us a hand on the league? We'd gladly take as much help as possible. (I need admins, server applications, and marshalls)

[scania]

Can th race time have a little bit changh?
because I want to join it...
e.g. the IRL night race time but in friday, that is sat morning in HK

[Fischfix]

i start liking the race format of the Sprint All-Star Race and might adopt that for LFSCAR.

100 laps race divided into 4 quarters with a 5 lap caution in between each quarter and a mandatory pitstop. (total of 115 laps/race). NO other cautions during the race.

winning a quarter will give bonus points.

and a basic point-system of: 1pts per lap + additional bonus (leading, fastest lap, climber,...)

[hansonator69]

GTRs WOOOOOO! Is it possible for an aussie to join? Is there gonna be single type racing? (As in FXR only with FXR, FZR only with FZR, etc.)

[AstroBoy]

Proberly single type racing mate but at a guess it will be starting around 4am our time.

[scania]

it should be "Champ of India" after the Storm Cup!

[BAMBO]

Any news about the league?Can you aproximate about when is the league going to start?

[Fischfix]

we will need to have some more delay and testing due to the fact patch X brought new balancing to the GTR class. i am not sure how this effected the cars and maybe i need to adjust some of the planed race-rules / racelength and tactics due to this as i really want to have a format with both xrr and fzr cars, maybe fxr is now able to compete as well...

[TFalke55]

LFSCAR seems to be kind of dead. :( since july nothing new :(

[BAMBO]

I wouldn't worry because a little birdie told me that some team who's initials begin with an S and a R are planning to revive the league :)

[hansonator69]

God bless whoever they are! ;-)

[Fischfix]

don't shoot too fast dudes ;)

i am back and still alive and

hope you will find some happyness soon, if not know.


read in the "other" post for more details about my disappierence...

i will give out more details in this and next week about the future of LFSCAR.

[Fischfix]

as far as i can tell, i won't race this season but will do the track-admin and race-controll stuff. i am also thinking about a LIVESTREAM via Mogulus.com

if there is anyone wants to do live comentary... :shrug: i will do additional comentary then...

[BAMBO]

Well I can do the live commentary if you want to.

PS: I also know a guy that can do a great commentary with/instead of me.

[Fischfix]

hi bambo and all others lfscar fans...

i am sad to say i won't have time to run a league at the moment on my own or at all, so i think you guys can have the right to hold the next season of the lfscar 360° cup if you want.

the only things i want is: i want you to run it under my ruleset (with your suggestions of course) with the main website on www.lfscar.com

in fact the lfscar league is completely planned (tracks, rules, ect.) but i do not have the time to run it by myself.


so if you run the series under my ruleset and with the addition of using www.lfscar.com as a league website you are free to do so for the next season. at the moment lfscar.com has a wordpress-template based CMS site which i can give some of you the moderator/admin rights as well to update all informations and stuff.

so what do you think...

here is my basic rules outlines:

1) cars: ALL GTR class cars (driver is not allowed to change the car during the season) with R2 tire restriction
2) Qualifying: 20 minutes open qualifing in first race, following races qualifying position = standings bottom to top
3) races: 120-150 lap races
4) tracks: i want to be these tracks in the schedule:
KY1, KY1rev, KY1 Special Chicane Layout, KY360 (which i am going to start in as well :), 1 Circuit Race (i was planning BL1 as all GTR class cars are about the same speed there), if you can organize one of the CTRA X-System Servers you can also run 2-3 of my short-track layouts (Speedway, Pancake, Tri-Oval)
5) pacecar: AI car with special setup, NO human pacecar driver (this is a suggestion though)
6) Points-System: 1 Point for each driven Lap (only the number behind the name at the end of the race is counting)
6) Bonus points for Highest Climber and Leading Laps
7) Each Car has to have a unique number in his name, numberplate and in big letters on the roof of the car

what do you think, if you are going with these rules i do not have problems to let you run the series.