CTRA race 2 server [Archive]

stry90dis

19th January 2008, 09:08

No, though I believe the car classes need to be seperated. Especially on CTRA Race 2 where there are just too many and too different cars.

A logical step from CTRA race 1 with XFG/XRG would be FXO/XRT/RB4. In some sense the same as the XFG/XRG combo, but a bit more setup options and powerfull. The LX6 is just a step too big at once and it doesn't fit the rest. The RAC and FZ50, don't know, they just don't fit the picture.

If I may add, the tracks are also too big. Allthough one has some experience from Race 1 in setting up the car, the tracks at race 2 are just too complex at this stage of driver development.

My personal opinion offcourse, not facts :)

This what I posted in another thread are in my opinion the biggest turn-off's. Having more car classes also means there have to be more people online to have a race. 5 in one class and the other 5 in another is a boring race, especially with the big tracks. It's more like cruisin and having some car from a faster class fly by now and then.

March Hare

19th January 2008, 09:18

I think the main problem is that many people still race on Race 1 even after thay have earned Silver.

Recently I've been there a few times myself and it seems the Race 1 is mostly populated by Silver and up drivers. With only a few Coppers and Bronzes in the mix.

I think this is not fair to the Copper and Bronce license holders that Silver and up filling their server.

How can a Copper get Bronze if he can't even race because the race is full? Same thing for Bronze to get Silver.

Maybe after you get Gold you should be banned from the Race 1 server. Or banned from racing there atleast.

The main argument for letting Silver and up race on the Race 1 seems to be giving advise and sets to the lower licensed drivers. This could still be done by letting higher license holders join but be spectated when a race starts.

zeugnimod

19th January 2008, 09:59

Maybe after you get Gold you should be banned from the Race 1 server. Or banned from racing there atleast.

The main argument for letting Silver and up race on the Race 1 seems to be giving advise and sets to the lower licensed drivers. This could still be done by letting higher license holders join but be spectated when a race starts.

:thumbsdow

The main argument for letting higher licenced drivers drive on the lower servers is because they like driving the cars. :shrug:

Viper93

19th January 2008, 10:37

:thumbsdow

The main argument for letting higher licenced drivers drive on the lower servers is because they like driving the cars. :shrug:

Then allow the XFG and and XRG on the tier two server and ban all gold and up from racing on the tier one server, or limit the space they can use on first tier.

[UKR] Race King

19th January 2008, 11:24

:thumbsdow

The main argument for letting higher licenced drivers drive on the lower servers is because they like driving the cars. or because they cant drive the other cars so they stick to what they know but its not fair to the drivers who dont know how to drive xrg's or xfg's

-NightFly-

19th January 2008, 11:27

Race King;681152']or because they cant drive the other cars so they stick to what they know:really:
+1

niels1

19th January 2008, 12:30

Make the other servers less popular and less competative... the only way thats gonna happen is by ditchin the FBM and the GTR's :shrug:

Which you don't wanna do....

Nooooo Dont drop the GTR`s. My favoruite car currently. Although I should be working on my SS license but I`m love with the GTR. Especially since I have my platinum license. Every track is so much more fun. Getting the setup right etcetra.

I havent been on race 1 for ages. I usually only connect and look at the racers there. No intention of driving there. Bcus we all been there and know how it is the earn your silver license. Its really hard work, but it seperates the commited from those who dont give a damn.

The tintop or TBO is a hardest car to drive in mine opion but nice. Although it isnt that appealing to me as a GTR. The LF cars dont have any interest of me what so ever. Never liked them as in LFS or in real life so I am not bothered with those.

5 diffenrent car classes in a server is briljant. Its gives me a kinda lemans feeling. You have to be aware of faster or slower drivers. I think its awesome. Currently I am competing in the GTTC league wicht has the TBO and GTR mixed into 1 field. And I love it. Great mix of car in 1 server. Keeps you on the egde of your seat for the whole race.

I think mizing the TBO with GTR will bring people to race on CTRA. I can already see it GTR, GT2 and teh TBO. Now that could be rather interesting. :)

Gnomie

24th January 2008, 15:10

Bcus we all been there and know how it is the earn your silver license. Its really hard work, but it seperates the commited from those who dont give a damn.
Can't wait to get my Silver licence. Got my Bronze a week after I started seriously in the CTRA, and now I'm officially hooked. :thumb: I'm very much looking forward to gaining access to the second server. In my opinion a less populated server is not necessarily a bad thing. I'm getting just a tad tired of being rammed every single time in T1 by some guy who just doesn't know how to take it easy.. with a less populated server + higher standard of racers that should be less of a problem. :)

By the way, are the TBO and LFR classes balanced in order to more or less equally fast and competitive, or will one of the classes just fly away at the beginning of the race, leaving the other guys in the dust?

EDIT: 100 posts! :D

HVS5b

24th January 2008, 15:16

I dont understund ... how come nobody drive on CTRA race 2 server ? all racers are on CTRA 1 ? why ? :(

To be fair, it's where I spend at least half my LFS time and have had some crackin' races. But yes it can be quiet at times. I find if I join when it's empty it does not take long to become populated :)

The other half of my time is spent on SS1 or 2. Not far to the next licence :thumb:

frokki

25th January 2008, 07:19

I have (almost) never seen over 6 people on Race 2 when I've started playing, so I've just joined Race 1 that offers better close racing with full grid.

I bet there are dozens of racers like me who all think the same way, and that's why it struggles popularity.

EDIT: And when there has been people, most of them have been driving TBO class cars instead of LRF:(

dawesdust_12

25th January 2008, 07:35

It was very popular when it first launched, but has died quickly. I guess I know where I need to be all next week (exam week).

.. hmm, next week have 1.5x points on Race 2... that might get people driving :p

Simon...!

Bean0

25th January 2008, 07:40

*snip*

By the way, are the TBO and LFR classes balanced in order to more or less equally fast and competitive, or will one of the classes just fly away at the beginning of the race, leaving the other guys in the dust?

EDIT: 100 posts! :D

LRF and TBO are 2 separate classes on the same server, just like you have the GT1 and GT2 classes on Race 3. Which class occupies most of the grid generally depends on who is on the server at the time, but it is a good introduction to the underused and very rewarding LRF class cars.

VoiD

25th January 2008, 08:10

...but it is a good introduction to the underused and very rewarding LRF class cars.

Thats true, I never drove LRF´s that much before.
But I have to say: I like it! It´s pure fun to switch between FXO and LX6... :D

dawesdust_12

25th January 2008, 08:17

Especially on some tracks, where all 6 cars are relatively close.

Worm

26th January 2008, 11:22

Dru

26th January 2008, 14:17

IMO, this is a bad idea to have TBO class with LX6, RAC and FZ5.
At the beginning, before the patch X this server was really amazing and fun because everyboy had a TBO car. I remember legendray race with XRT vs TBO.
Now its impossible because RAC LX6 et FZ5 disturb the good race between TBO class.That s why a lot of people dont race in CTRA race 2. Too many class on a same server are not good for the quality of races.

is it because there are too many classes (only 2 i think) or is it because the pace of bad LRF drivers means they run at the same pace as TBO drivers??

For instance, On Race 3 you have 2 vastly different classes and the racing there is GREAT. last night we had 20 odd people driving and its all great fun :D

SamH

26th January 2008, 14:41

IMO, this is a bad idea to have TBO class with LX6, RAC and FZ5.
At the beginning, before the patch X this server was really amazing and fun because everyboy had a TBO car. I remember legendray race with XRT vs TBO.
Now its impossible because RAC LX6 et FZ5 disturb the good race between TBO class.That s why a lot of people dont race in CTRA race 2. Too many class on a same server are not good for the quality of races.
IMO, right now, people don't race in Race 2 because of all the cars available in the CTRA, ALL of the Race 2 cars are the most difficult to drive. That's really at the bottom of it. People aren't out for a challenge. They'd rather race a sure thing than risk their shot at some points at the end of the race by driving a challenging car. It wouldn't matter if it were an LRF server only, or a TBO server only. We've proved that already. People shy away from a difficult car when there's an alternative. :shrug:

Sad but, I'm afraid to say, apparently true. :(

The Moose

26th January 2008, 14:54

People shy away from a difficult car when there's an alternative. :shrug:

Sad but, I'm afraid to say, apparently true. :(

If that were strictly true the UF-BR server would be full 24/7:scratchch

Personally i think so many CTRA drivers have raced in the TBO's over the last year that the GT2/GT servers is more popular because it's a change.

SamH

26th January 2008, 15:03

If that were strictly true the UF-BR server would be full 24/7:scratchch
hehe.. hmm.. well, Race 1 is full most of the time! Although they're not AS easy as UF-BR.. hmm..
Personally i think so many CTRA drivers have raced in the TBO's over the last year that the GT2/GT servers is more popular because it's a change.
I hope you're right there. Fingers crossed, Race 2 will see a resurgence. It's annoying because, as you say, when you get a bunch in there it IS a fantastic night of racing.

The Moose

26th January 2008, 15:09

when you get a bunch in there it IS a fantastic night of racing.

That's pretty much the same for all the CTRA servers in my experience:)

The last few days on Race 3 has been fantastic. Big grids of both GT2 and 1 and some great racing has been had by all.

If the Race 2 server gets popular again I'll will go there to race. I just go where the action is:) and at the moment Race 3 is the place to be.

VoiD

28th January 2008, 23:13

...and at the moment Race 3 is the place to be.

And thats the problem for "us" #2-racers. Less skills needed to drive (for more points) a GT2 fast and stable... compared to TBO/LRF.

SamH

28th January 2008, 23:23

I changed the points loading last night, in an attempt to increase interest in Race 2. I'm hoping for some feedback when there's some racing there :)

March Hare

29th January 2008, 06:42

niels1

29th January 2008, 06:53

............The last few days on Race 3 has been fantastic. Big grids of both GT2 and 1 and some great racing has been had by all.

Yup, great racing there. :nod:

I changed the points loading last night..................

Yeah noticed that, less points for driving flawless, fastest lape and driving spot 1 for 7 laps was about 53 points. Ohh with a full grid :)
Maybe now people will join race 2 more. I hope not bcus I love the GTR class. :nod:
But a suggestion to Sam, Is it possible to set the lape record if you have completed a full race instead of waiting to the last 2 or 3 laps and then go for the lape record. Bcus this is whats been happening lately. They all wait until the leader has 2 or 3 to go and then they go off hotlapping for a lape record.

Normally I dont mind hotlapping but if you just have a good race over 7 laps and you picked a fast lape time you loose bcus someone is hotlappping. In the end of the day for the fastest lape you`ll get some extra points if i am not mistaking. And they get a better starting grid aswell.

......Less skills needed to drive (for more points) a GT2 fast and stable... compared to TBO/LRF.

TBO/LRF are the most difficult cars to drive. No doubt about it. But to get a decent lapetime nowadays with the GTR class you need a lot of skill getting close to the lape records. It seems people made them during hotlapping instead of trying to win a race. Several are made in a 2 laps setup running R2`s. During a qualify for a league I sometime use those tyres and that save loads of time on a lape. But more laps as 3 is out of the question, there fried.

HVS5b

29th January 2008, 09:02

I got 147 points yesterday (endurance FTW!) for just cruising around the FE Gold in the XRT. And you say you have tweaked the points even more?
Platinum here I come!

I was first in my class but I was the only one who finished.
There was an FXO driver but he ran out of petrol. There were two LRF drivers too.

I was in the lead the whole time and I did get several new PBs. Which is now only about 3 seconds from the lap record.

That was me in the FXO :scratchch I thought for some reason it was 9 lap race, not the enduro 13 lapper on FE3R.

Managed to complete the next two races before I was randomly disconnected in the middle of my third race. Not to worry, my dinner was ready anyhoo :)

I also landed 140+ pts for being the first TBO car home, with no yellows. Rather bizzarely on the next race (under so far as I can tell, identical circumstances) I only got 66 pts.

I've not done many enduranace races so I'm not sure how this fairs to the norm, but I was sure grateful for the quick points haul :thumb:

See you there soon, fellow Race 2 fans :D

troy

29th January 2008, 09:47

i had some of my best races ever in the first days of the LRF relaunch. then the lx welcome cup happened and sadly i had to cut down on ctra, now its finally done and all i see is an empty race2. so you lrf/tbo addicts wherever you've gone to, come back! :razz: i guess i will be lapping a bit in 2-4h from now and see if i can get some of my nemesis back into the race2 boat :)

attached a race i saved from back then now, was the last race of the evening and sadly i only saved that one but we had at least 10 of those on that day and some of them where even closer. you could also take a look at the lx cup final video, if you are not hooked after that there must be something seriously wrong with you :tilt:

http://www.stage6.com/user/esportracing/video/2142834/LX-2008-Final-Race

i also think the lx6 got a lot easier to drive since patch y, it can still bite you if you push really hard but as long you don't do that to much its such a pleasure to drive. ok enough of the lx fanboyism for now, see you on track later :)

tailing

1st February 2008, 12:19

Maybe you could allow bronze drivers to drive the TBO class, they aren't that hard and it seems like a natural progression from race1 to me. It seems a bronze licence has only gained any relevance at all since the change to the UF-BR server but I'm fairly new to CTRA so I don't know how things were previously. I would like to race the TBO class though and am fully capable of doing so and allowing bronze drivers could get a few more numbers on race2.

Dru

1st February 2008, 12:32

Maybe you could allow bronze drivers to drive the TBO class, they aren't that hard and it seems like a natural progression from race1 to me.

NO!!!!!!

its not the car thats hard to drive thats the problem...... its the standard of racer that needs to be promoted

SamH

1st February 2008, 12:47

What Dru said, but in larger text and in some really bright colour or something. Maybe with some rope lights around it, I dunno.

StableX

1st February 2008, 12:54

it's the fact the car is harder to drive that creates the standard!.....

tailing

2nd February 2008, 01:46

So a National B license you're of a good enough standard to race on SS2 but the equivalent Bronze license and your not good enough to race on Race2? Well I suppose the SS2 server has the same problem with lack of racers atm so maybe it wouldn't help any anyway. Still I think something is a little out of whack with the license levels, maybe if Bronze was a bit harder (took me only three nights racing) it would be more meaningful and the racers would be of a high enough standard for Race2.

SamH

2nd February 2008, 02:20

You can race on SS2 with a National B, but you're only able to race with a FOX with that licence. It's a mixed class server.

SS servers and CTRA servers can't be compared directly anyway. With a Bronze licence you can race the UF-BR, which we feel is an important phase in licence progression. It's a fun cross to bear, though! :)

AlienT.

11th February 2008, 23:49

Ban the Baby R! Waste of a server, useless slow car, whats wrong with the UF1 if thats your cup of tea?
:iagree:

Let Bronze racers race in CTRA 2. Lets get the TBO server filled up, best class for close fun racing in my humble opinion :x

Also you could get rid of the restricted GT2's, again I don't see the point, then let TBO's race with the GT1's perhaps?

Zachary Zoomy

12th February 2008, 02:50

I'm up for TBOs with bronze :)

SamH

12th February 2008, 02:53

Nope, that won't be happening :)

Zachary Zoomy

13th February 2008, 01:17

it was worth a shot :D

Gnomie

13th February 2008, 07:05

What about reducing the number of tracks? At least for me, it's a bit overwhelming to have to learn so many tracks. I need to practice offline before I join the server, and since the applet that's supposed to show how long it is till server change doesn't work properly (as explained in the other thread) it's kind of hard. If there were fewer tracks to choose from we could learn them all by heart offline first, eliminating the problem. :shrug:

HVS5b

13th February 2008, 08:14

A big no to reducing the number of tracks from me. Thats half the fun jumping onto a fresh combo and trying to get up to speed quickly.
Or every so often when a favourite comes up and you can pick up more points than average :)

The Moose

13th February 2008, 16:22

A big no to reducing the number of tracks from me....

+1
I'd say increase the number of tracks for each server.

The lack of tracks in LFS is what is keeping my interest low at the moment.

The lack of tracks for each CTRA server is even more of a problem.

zeugnimod

13th February 2008, 16:37

+1
I'd say increase the number of tracks for each server.

+1 to your +1 and to that suggestion.

SamH

13th February 2008, 18:01

I've been thinking about this recently too. I would be happy to expand the number of available tracks in higher servers. It will mean that there will be tracks that a vocal minority will bitch about, but there are some tracks that I think people should be willing to give a chance. Let's look at the track list and get down to it.

Race 2 and Race 3 use the following tracks:
BL1_Standard
SO5_Standard
SO6_Standard
FE2_Standard
FE3_Standard
KY2_Standard
WE1_Standard
AS3_Standard
AS7_Standard
SO5R_Standard
SO6R_Standard
FE2R_Standard
FE3R_Standard
KY2R_Standard
WE1R_Standard
AS3R_Standard
AS7R_Standard
SO4_Standard
FE4_Standard
KY3_Standard
AS4_Standard
AS5_Standard
AS6_Standard
SO4R_Standard
FE4R_Standard
KY3R_Standard
AS4R_Standard
AS5R_Standard
AS6R_Standard
Pretty comprehensive list. There's not much missing from there.

To help, here's a list of all tracks available to those servers:
BL1_Standard
SO1_Standard
SO2_Standard
SO3_Standard
SO4_Standard
SO5_Standard
SO6_Standard
FE1_Standard
FE2_Standard
FE3_Standard
FE4_Standard
SO1R_Standard
SO2R_Standard
SO3R_Standard
SO4R_Standard
SO5R_Standard
FE1R_Standard
FE2R_Standard
FE3R_Standard
FE4R_Standard
KY2_Standard
KY3_Standard
WE1_Standard
AS1_Standard
AS2_Standard
AS3_Standard
AS4_Standard
AS5_Standard
AS6_Standard
AS7_Standard
KY2R_Standard
KY3R_Standard
WE1R_Standard
AS1R_Standard
AS2R_Standard
AS3R_Standard
AS4R_Standard
AS5R_Standard
AS6R_Standard
AS7R_Standard

Let's hammer it out.. inclusions and reasons, exclusions and reasons please :)

VoiD

13th February 2008, 18:40

...Let's hammer it out.. inclusions and reasons, exclusions and reasons please :)

Ok ! :D

Any news about this (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=648801#post648801)? :razz:

The Moose

13th February 2008, 19:04

For the TBO's and GT's i see no reason not to include every track except FE1, SO3 and AS1 (and the reverse configs of those of course)

SamH

13th February 2008, 19:06

Ok ! :D

Any news about this (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=648801#post648801)? :razz:
It's there.. I built the wall ages ago!

zeugnimod

13th February 2008, 19:09

I was talking more about SS1, tbh.

I don't see any reason why you exclude tracks like FE Black, SO Long, AS GP, KY GP.
Yes, the server is for beginners but the beginners should also learn to drive the longer tracks. :razz:

Edit: Ok, maybe I should have read the thread title. :shy:

SamH

13th February 2008, 19:09

FE1 and AS1 are great fun in a big field with TBO! The first STCC servers we ran were running AS1 in preparation for the STCC league race, and were fantastic! Are you sure?!

SamH

13th February 2008, 19:10

We're not doing Race 1 here.. this is Race 2 and Race 3. We did Race 1 a couple of weeks ago, and added a couple of tracks then.

VoiD

13th February 2008, 19:19

Oh..!! :) Thx Sam :thumb:

Your list only contains "standard", I thought it must be listed as "CTRA layout", similarly as the records on MYCTRA:

KY3 FXO CTRA layout 2m48s980

SamH

13th February 2008, 19:33

Yeah, Standard basically means it won't load a specifically named layout. That "switch" is really only used in Bump and Jump track cycles, where there are more than one layout per track.. the track remains constant some of the time, but the track cycle changes the layout in that server. :)

edit.. actually, for all records anywhere that isn't set on Bump and Jump, if you have a Standard record and a CTRA record, I need to go and delete the Standard. The CTRA layouts are all anti-cut layouts, except Bump and Jump.

Becky Rose

13th February 2008, 19:33

CTRA is just a no cut layout, I dont remember exactly but I think you specify _Standard the system will load a _CTRA layout if it is there, or nothing if there isnt one. It's so that no cut layouts can be added without having to edit config files, so for all intents and purposes, _Standard just means normal or no-cut.

The Moose

13th February 2008, 20:07

FE1 and AS1 are great fun in a big field with TBO! The first STCC servers we ran were running AS1 in preparation for the STCC league race, and were fantastic! Are you sure?!

Your absolutely correct, i remember the TBO's round there now:) Had some great fights.
(my memory ain't what it used to be:razz:)

Not sure if those tracks would be any good with GT's though.

Maybe consider running all tracks for a few weeks and getting feedback on what doesn't really work after that?

Gnomie

13th February 2008, 20:28

+1
I'd say increase the number of tracks for each server.

The lack of tracks in LFS is what is keeping my interest low at the moment.

The lack of tracks for each CTRA server is even more of a problem.
OK, fair enough. :) I'm just trying to figure a way of getting more people to race on Race 2 instead of just everyone congregating on Race 1. I think a new approach might be in order, but I'm not sure what.. :shrug: Surely the population of racers with Silver+ should be big enough to have a decent bunch of racers on Race 2 as well? :scratchch

The Moose

13th February 2008, 20:39

OK, fair enough. :) I'm just trying to figure a way of getting more people to race on Race 2 instead of just everyone congregating on Race 1. I think a new approach might be in order, but I'm not sure what.. :shrug: Surely the population of racers with Silver+ should be big enough to have a decent bunch of racers on Race 2 as well? :scratchch

I agree with you. I don't see why anyone with a silver+ license would congregate on Race1 anyway, when there are much better cars and a better standard of racing on the higher servers.

Anything that gets more people onto Race2 and 3 would be good.

SamH

13th February 2008, 21:22

Maybe consider running all tracks for a few weeks and getting feedback on what doesn't really work after that?
We have a plan, sir! We're now running all tracks on Race 2 and Race 3. We'll see how it goes for a week or so :)

The Moose

13th February 2008, 22:35

We have a plan, sir! We're now running all tracks on Race 2 and Race 3. We'll see how it goes for a week or so :)

Stuart has a good idea for once! Someone pass me the cookies:)

HVS5b

14th February 2008, 12:38

We have a plan, sir! We're now running all tracks on Race 2 and Race 3. We'll see how it goes for a week or so :)

Excellent, I know what I'm doing for the next few evenings then :razz:

Apart from the wee diddy tracks mentioned earlier (AS1, FE1, SO3) I don't see why we shouldn't have the rest in the mix for Race 3 (KY1 is also out for both servers, obviously!)

Race 2 can have the lot, apart from KY1.

I look forward to trying the RAC on FE4R :tilt:

LordBlaster

14th February 2008, 14:23

this will be the first time i´ll race on the oval :D

HVS5b

14th February 2008, 14:33

this will be the first time i´ll race on the oval :D

A few friends and I tried it with the UF1. It was a proper giggle :)

March Hare

14th February 2008, 20:42

A few friends and I tried it with the UF1. It was a proper giggle :)
LOL!

Just thining about racing on the oval with the UF1 made me laugh!

I must try it sometime.

Gnomie

14th February 2008, 20:42

Excellent, I know what I'm doing for the next few evenings then :razz:

Seems like you're not the only one -- right now there's 22 people online!! I had a few drinks tonight, so I'm afraid I won't join, but I'll be there tomorrow night! Seems like Race 2 is cured! :thumb:

HVS5b

15th February 2008, 08:40

Seems like you're not the only one -- right now there's 22 people online!! I had a few drinks tonight, so I'm afraid I won't join, but I'll be there tomorrow night! Seems like Race 2 is cured! :thumb:

The downside with race 2 being more popular is it has cost me my only lap record

B*stards :x :weeping:

Still, it was nice to jump on last night and find half a dozen folks there. Some good racing had before I had to nip off to perform Valentines duties :tilt:

SamH

15th February 2008, 08:55

this will be the first time i´ll race on the oval :D
Ahh.. when I said "all tracks", I meant "all tracks that don't give your eyes an RSI and make your ears bleed because they get bored and have nothing better to do". Oval? CTRA!? :thumbsdow:D

LordBlaster

15th February 2008, 09:25

hmm for sure it would have been funny :D

Bean0

15th February 2008, 09:36

hmm for sure it would have been funny :D

Would have been hilarious if they put a couple of chicanes or something on it.

I remember the carnage the first time the CTRA layout of FE Green was used :nod:

Gener_AL (UK)

15th February 2008, 09:43

CTRA2 is no longer popular because its not TBO

simple fact.

Im even quite sure that the way CTRA have toyed with the TBO has created hte decline of this server, first it was mixed with UF1 now its LRF ... and you are wondering why its less popular. :x

SamH

15th February 2008, 09:45

Nope, it was empty for months while it was TBO. It only saw life again when we added LRF to it. It's still not busy now, but it's a hell of a lot busier than when it was TBO only.

Gener_AL (UK)

15th February 2008, 09:46

Nope, it was empty for months while it was TBO. It only saw life again when we added LRF to it. It's still not busy now, but it's a hell of a lot busier than when it was TBO only.

and you dont think that had anything to do with balancing issues ?

SamH

15th February 2008, 09:51

and you dont think that had anything to do with balancing issues ?
Nope, not really. The server is TBO now, but people tend not to drive TBO when there are alternatives. If we took LRF out, the server would die again.

troy

15th February 2008, 10:18

i don't think so gener_al, the cars will never be 100% balanced and the fxo is still faster for the short pickup racing. if somebody didn't join because of the balancing he wont join in the future too. when the tbo's where pretty much alone back in the stcc time the server was packed a lot but i think that was because people had nothing else to go on, now they have singleseaters, gtr's and bump'n'jump so the base gets stretched.

personally i love the come back of lrf at race2, of course it's not easy if we just see 2-5 people online the races tend to get boring easily with the 50/50 split of the cars. what i would do is (saw that mentioned already on some other thread) limit higher licensed drivers to the high license servers, best example was stcc, people had to race tbo to get points so they did, a bit less freedom of choice not always has to be bad.

Gener_AL (UK)

15th February 2008, 10:23

Sorry to disagree with you on this sam, but the way i see it TBO on XTRA2 was very popular then the new car/s came and interest logically dwindled.
Now to spark interest you have had some good events and have "toyed" with the TBO by adding different classes, but ultimately this is just a gimmick , which is obvious, represnted by the influx of visitors.
CTRA2 just needs to establish itself again as a place where clean good TBO racing can grow again. I'm sure i speak for an alienated minority ( long time TBO fans ) that have been subject to these mixed class ideas (which are fun but should be left for an event server/league) and the tweaking of the balancing in the TBO class that scawen has changed from LFS S2q-y.
What i do find surpising that you, seem to think the balancing has no effect ....:really: come on now .. even coming from the FWD side of the TBO table, i know for a fact that many XRT racers just stopped due to it being so far out.
Also id like to just add that its just not CTRA Race2 server that i see this problem of lack of TBO racers. Infact i see more that TBO has become split. XRT only servers RB4 only servers and of course FXO.

Im not saying that having the mixed server wasnt a good thing to try , maybe its a good start. I think also its the down to the cycle of LFS users , a cycle from old to new , the newer generation perhaps more more inclinded to racing the S2 cars :shrug:

All i know that TBO has been on a steady decline for a while.

Bean0

15th February 2008, 10:34

The TBO servers were best when you had an increased points multiplier for the harder/slower cars IMO.

You had your regular load of FXOs, but also those who were going for big points in the XRT and RB4...it made the racing more interesting, especially when you could get the jump off the line in XRT/RB4 and have to spend the whole race fighting off a swarm of FXO drivers.

The FXO seems to be all conquering again and the RB4 is now quicker, but the XRT is unchanged. Maybe giving people incentive with the multipliers again could help ?

The multi-class aspect does give us LRF fans somewhere to race, but it's usually the case of only about 5 or 6 drivers on the grid :(

Gener_AL (UK)

15th February 2008, 10:52

The TBO servers were best when you had an increased points multiplier for the harder/slower cars IMO.

You had your regular load of FXOs, but also those who were going for big points in the XRT and RB4...it made the racing more interesting, especially when you could get the jump off the line in XRT/RB4 and have to spend the whole race fighting off a swarm of FXO drivers.

Spot on :thumb:

Maybe a little tweaking with how race grids are formed from previous race results also, perhaps it could work again :shrug:

I am not overly familar with the technical side of the systems used for CTRA servers , but i do miss a regular TBO server.

SamH

15th February 2008, 11:14

If we moved Race2 back to TBO only, the server would sit empty. I know this is the case because we've tried it. As troy says, it's a victim of the availability of some of the other classes in the CTRA - the SS and GTR. However, the one class that I'm absolutely sure it's NOT a victim of is LRF.

There's nothing to stop TBO-loving drivers joining and racing on Race 2, and when they do that it runs as a purely TBO server. However, what is quite evident is that they don't do that. Even when there are no LRF drivers on the server, there are also no TBO drivers on there. When you get a few LRF drivers in there, you occasionally see a few TBO drivers attracted to the server and vice versa.

With Race 2, we're catering for two tiny minorities in LFS. The problem is not the classes on the server but the people that don't drive them, and there's very little we can do about that. It's an LFS cultural issue. If we kill EITHER of those two minority classes from this server, the other minority class will not see any up-surge in usage. The server is being helped by being multi-class, not hindered. I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression - if people who USE LFS choose to race something other than TBO or LRF, they have my support. I'm making concessions by running quiet servers for people who rarely use them. It'd be a lot easier to kill them off or convert them to cars that ARE driven.

I will consider re-tweaking the car points between the TBO cars, but doing so will not see an increase in usage for any of the cars in TBO. I've said it already, the issue is not in any aspect of the CTRA suite of servers. It's elsewhere in the culture of LFS.

With all due respect, I learned, long ago to take anything that's said on the forum with a very small pinch of salt. TBO and LRF drivers are definitely among the most vocal on the forum, and they are most definitely also the least often seen in LFS servers. I'm afraid that I'm just not really seeing where things are broken, in the CTRA in this respect at all. It doesn't matter how many hours I throw at this particular aspect of the system, nothing will change in the servers.

HVS5b

15th February 2008, 11:38

snip..
There's nothing to stop TBO-loving drivers joining and racing on Race 2, and when they do that it runs as a purely TBO server. However, what is quite evident is that they don't do that. Even when there are no LRF drivers on the server, there are also no TBO drivers on there. When you get a few LRF drivers in there, you occasionally see a few TBO drivers attracted to the server and vice versa.

To be fair, thats not my experience over the last 3-4 months.

I normally get in from work 5-6pm GMT, and have been jumping on Race 2 with the FXO (the latest car I've decided to learn to drive). The vast majority of the time (80%+) I've been the only one on the server to start with until a few other TBO drivers (mainly March Hare, Void etc) join in.

Sometimes a few LRF drivers hook up, although mostly (obviously with exceptions!) they seems to unfamiliar with the cars and end up running alongside us TBO drivers, which can lead to some very interesting races :)

I'm only on for an hour or so until the Mrs arrives home for tea, but thats my (pretty comprehensive) early evening recollection of late.

I feel your certainly more likely to have the TBO's providing the kick-start to populating the server with a decent contingent.

March Hare

15th February 2008, 11:45

SamH

15th February 2008, 11:46

HVS5b, that's not an argument for changing the way things are right now. The server is there if you want to use it, though it's not too popular. But it IS THERE.

Nobody has actually made a solid argument for ditching the LRF. The strongest argument for ditching the LRF, in fact, is the fact that the people that BEGGED for it to be provided just don't use it now that it is there. If I drop it, though, it'll be a knee-jerk response to time-wasters, and I generally don't opt for those decisions.

HVS5b

15th February 2008, 11:56

Sorry if you picked me up wrong Sam, I don't think it needs changing at all. Just a few more racers would be nice :nod:

Anyone driving the LRF cars gets my respect, they are total b*stards to drive fast!

SamH

15th February 2008, 11:59

Ahh okay, cool :)

troy

15th February 2008, 12:25

i guess i need to answer on that sam, because i'm one of the beggars :shy: i would love to join race2 every day for 24h but i can't :) what i do try is to go there whenever time allows me to do so. that wasn't to much for the last month or two i must admit, tried to not look like a complete noob in the etm relegations and also started to organize weekly lx racing on wednesday evening, so race2 had to step back a bit.

i still think that lrf + tbo can live happily together on one server, it is just hard to get the already small userbase for those two classes together on a specific day and time. once the server got more then 5-10 connections it fills pretty fast (also with new faces) its the group effect i guess, as soon as the server is popular people see it in the server list and want to have a go.

why not try something different to get the initial 5-10 connections, make up a specific time every 2 - 4 days and then join there together. the system is there we just need some more regulars to make other people notice it. since i'm posting already what do you think would be a good time for most of the europe based people? 18-19.00 UTC?

Mille Sabords

15th February 2008, 12:51

I'm March Hare and I drive the XRT.

Please keep the TBO class! There were many people racing there yesterday evening. Granted it was empty when i joined but soon the others came. I even got about a 100 points while cruising alone. And a lap record too. Which was broken once others joined.

Hi March Hare,
Sorry I nicked your record, I just had time for a few laps and did not even get a full race... real life gets in the way of my racing a lot with a job, a wife and 2 kids...
Don't worry the record is yours when you get back on this track, it was in no way a good lap. Here is the poor set I used if you want a go :)

I kind of like race 2 as it is now, with only a few racers online. It gives us room for mistakes and time to learn / improve the difficult LRF combos, and beginners out of race 1 can also take time to learn TBOs. Wait and see, until the user base with silver and more is a bit bigger?
OT/ Sam do you have stats available somewhere - per license users?

SamH

15th February 2008, 13:04

I'm sure that the "group effect" is what causes servers to populate. This is specifically why the TBO-only server won't work, the LRF-only server won't work, and the only chance either of these classes has of getting use in the CTRA is a multi-class environment. Pool the two classes in one server, give them results according to their individual class, and you maximise the chances of getting some racing with those classes.

This will continue to be the case until the TBO and/or LRF achieve popularity in the LFS culture again, if that happens at all. This is our best effort to support it, but we can't make people want to drive those classes.
CTRA2 just needs to establish itself again as a place where clean good TBO racing can grow again. I'm sure i speak for an alienated minority ( long time TBO fans ) that have been subject to these mixed class ideas (which are fun but should be left for an event server/league) and the tweaking of the balancing in the TBO class that scawen has changed from LFS S2q-y.

[...]

Im not saying that having the mixed server wasnt a good thing to try , maybe its a good start. I think also its the down to the cycle of LFS users , a cycle from old to new , the newer generation perhaps more more inclinded to racing the S2 cars :shrug:

All i know that TBO has been on a steady decline for a while.
I'm afraid I don't agree with you about CTRA adopting multi-class gimmickery. I think it has turned out to be the best solution to address the dwindling S1 car popularity. Race 2 as a multi-class server is not a cause of the problem, it's a best-effort solution for it. Ultimately, it's up to the community to take up the torch, but that means bums on Race 2 seats. Save Race 2, save the cheerleader..

March Hare

15th February 2008, 13:06

Don't worry the record is yours when you get back on this track, it was in no way a good lap. Here is the poor set I used if you want a go :)
I go flat out on a track I know pretty well in a car I think I know well with a set that I've been tweaking for a long time and you come along with a poor set and poor driving and beat my time... Just shows how great a driver I am. :D

RL just gets in the way of everything.

Mille Sabords

15th February 2008, 13:17

I checked LFSworld and I'm 1.640s off WR... in only 47 seconds. Still room for your name on the CTRA records hall of fame it seems! Keep trying, you're safe until Void shows up ;)

March Hare

15th February 2008, 13:20

Luckily he drives the FXO.

HVS5b

15th February 2008, 13:40

Unluckily he drives the FXO.

I know :scratchch :razz:

SamH

15th February 2008, 13:51

OT/ Sam do you have stats available somewhere - per license users?
I don't have server usage per licence, nope. It's an idea for the future, though. :scratchch

VoiD

15th February 2008, 20:50

Thx for the flowers. :D

Unluckily I have very little chances to get on track untill CeBIT begins... :schwitz:

Someone have to earn my money, and often it´s me ;)

frokki

22nd February 2008, 09:40

Now the race 2 server has been crowded two last times I've been racing. :thumb:

Great racing, I only wish it became even more popular :)

Mille Sabords

22nd February 2008, 09:56

I have to agree with you frokki, unbelievabe races last night!
I'm usually mid pack racer (meaning slow and inconsistent :)) but last night I could not see the leading cars after 1/2 a lap!
3-5 XRT's fighting on FE gold close to WR pace for 9 laps... to bad I was 3 seconds per lap off pace :hide:

Gnomie

22nd February 2008, 10:41

Yep, there's been some really good racing on that server the last couple of nights. I'll be there tonight too! Hope the trend continues! :thumb: Come, come!!

Christopher Raemisch

22nd February 2008, 11:14

Yep, there's been some really good racing on that server the last couple of nights. I'll be there tonight too! Hope the trend continues! :thumb: Come, come!!

Sounds like fun! I might drag my wheel out tonight, been ages since I sat down and actually played LFS.

HVS5b

22nd February 2008, 11:53

Sounds like fun! I might drag my wheel out tonight, been ages since I sat down and actually played LFS.

The more the merrier :thumb:

It was great to see such a good turn out of clean fast racers. Really enjoyed it. Hope to see you all again toonight!

March Hare

22nd February 2008, 13:33

I'll be there. Hopefully at the same time you are.

xtm

25th February 2008, 03:37

Yup, things have definately improved in the last weeks, some great races, although it was a massive jump in the overall level of racing from CTRA1. And you gotta love the points earned, got 185 today on SO sprint2 :)

HVS5b

25th February 2008, 10:06

Yup, things have definately improved in the last weeks, some great races, although it was a massive jump in the overall level of racing from CTRA1... snip

Mercifully so :razz: There can still be a fair spread of abilities on Race 2, from the "just qualified from Race 1" racer to the "I got Titanium months ago" uber-wad :nod: Thats part of the fun, along with the mixed class and fantastic TBO place swapping.

Cheers to all those who were out on WE1 on saturday afternoon, some quality racing indeed :thumb:

March Hare

25th February 2008, 15:40

Mercifully so :razz: There can still be a fair spread of abilities on Race 2, from the "just qualified from Race 1" racer to the "I got Titanium months ago" uber-wad :nod:
And then there is me who's 2k short of Platinum and still so slow that I get yellows even if I'm on the track.

Michael Denham

28th February 2008, 16:43

Now the race 2 server has been crowded two last times I've been racing. :thumb:

Great racing, I only wish it became even more popular :)
Yeah, it's been fantastic in the last week I've been on it. Lots of close LX6 racing, I am pretty much racing only here now as it's my favourite group of cars and some great racers. :)

Gnomie

28th February 2008, 20:30

Yeah, it's been fantastic in the last week I've been on it. Lots of close LX6 racing, I am pretty much racing only here now as it's my favourite group of cars and some great racers. :)
Dude, do you own a MX-5? My favourite car.. for some reason I really really want one. There's something about that car..!! :smileypul

On topic: after getting my gold licence with the XRT I'd also like to have a go at the LFR class. More specifically I'd like to try the RAC -- it fascinates me. :) It was one of the first cars that I tried when I got LFS last autumn, but those sets were made for Patch X.

So: does anyone have any decent, stable RAC sets that I could try? (Yeah, I guess "stable" is a relative term when it comes to this car.. ;) ) I've tried a couple, and for some reason some of them felt very weird. On one (that Mille Sabords gave me) I had to crank the FFB up to like 150% in order to feel anything at all. :really: And there's not much to be found at setupfield.

I'd much appreciate it! :) :thumb:

troy

28th February 2008, 21:44

i like most of the sets made by "col" from setupfield, maybe you want to have a try so i attached some. those are the stock hotlap sets you may want to tweak pressure/camber/brakes a tad if you want to do longer stints.

Gnomie

29th February 2008, 08:34

Thanks! :) I'll play around with it and see what comes out of it. :)

Michael Denham

29th February 2008, 16:08

We had some really fantastic races in this server again, it has really got me back into LFS and especially the LX6. The racers on there are clean and we are able to race closer than I ever have done before. So much fun :D I might have to post a couple of replays later because we have had a couple of the most enjoyable races I've ever had since I first played LFS (August 2002...).

Dude, do you own a MX-5? My favourite car.. for some reason I really really want one. There's something about that car..!! :smileypul
Yes, I've had a '90 MX-5/Miata for 7 years now. It's my first car and it's been totally reliable and enjoyable in the time I've had it. There really isn't another car available for the price that provides more fun, IMO. I have been racing it in autox for the last two years which has been huge fun also, especially when you beat all sorts of more expensive machinery in a bone stock near 20 year old Miata :)

Thanks! :) I'll play around with it and see what comes out of it. :)
Probably understeer followed by sudden oversteer, then back to understeer, maybe followed by a spin ;) That is nothing against the setup posted (heck, I haven't even tried it!), just my experience with the RAC so far :)

dawesdust_12

29th February 2008, 16:20

Michael Denham

29th February 2008, 16:38

Michael, I've been looking for them, but the ones that I can find are vastly too expensive for me, which is too bad because from what I've heard, they're decent track cars, along with being ok road cars.
I would say they are fantastic road cars and fairly good track cars (if not lacking in power in stock form). I'll send you a PM...

ajp71

3rd March 2008, 19:56

SamH

3rd March 2008, 20:11

I know it's an old nag but I'd like to call for the custom layouts to be removed from Fern Bay Green, especially the silly pile of obsticles in the middle of the track which does not work on a public server where people aren't expecting it. I pulled out the pits in the FZ5 and imediately ended up taking out a car when suddenly saw the collection of objects shoved in the middle of the track. I'd love to race on Race 2 as it's the only place offering racing in the road cars but I don't wish to race on tracks with random obsticles shoved on them and I doubt I'm the only one :shrug:
Funnily enough, I've been reviewing the benefits of (or perhaps lack of) these. They were originally introduced to match the STCC's tracks. There are definitely issues with these corners, but I'm no longer convinced that they're resolved in any way by the layouts we are using.

Christopher Raemisch

4th March 2008, 05:10

Funnily enough, I've been reviewing the benefits of (or perhaps lack of) these. They were originally introduced to match the STCC's tracks. There are definitely issues with these corners, but I'm no longer convinced that they're resolved in any way by the layouts we are using.

I think they did a great job for the STCC itself where we put many laps into practicing but not enough people pay attention to the layout changes to be able to effectively use the barrier.

Becky Rose

5th March 2008, 22:12

STCC did not use a barricade at Fern Bay Green, although it was discussed and trialed. The subject of the Fern Bay Green chicane has been debated many times and most drivers go "ok that was a suprise" and then see the benefit of it. It's 7 of one, five of the other. The solution isnt a perfect one, but the problem it is fixing is a long way from perfect too. Would you rather see a crashed car at the far end of the straight (as you approach a blind bend) or just after a blind bend..?

EDIT Sidenote: STCC actually had 4 collision physics based accidents on that chicane in the race... *shrug*