How to make LFS more realistic.

[Glorian]

me need to make lfs more realistic. I am proposing some changes.

first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

Get rid of license plates on all cars that are not road cars. Race cars do not have license plates.

I might think of more, so I will add on later.

[srdsprinter]

:munching_........

[Bumpdrafter]

Want a hardcore, ultra-realistic, lifelike simulation with better graphics than Gran Turismo 5 of an LX4/LX6?

Go here (www.caterham.co.uk), and order one of their simulators. When you get in and start your simulator for the first time, drive fast and crash directly into the nearest wall, and see why the hell your suggestions suck, and how realistic the simulator is.

this thread = epic fail. bigtime.

[Glorian]

looks like that one wasn't though all the way through. I will remove it.

How about some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism next time.

Nice community, really makes me want to buy the game. :D

[Lateralus]

Worst first post ever.

[Glorian]

Worst first post ever.

worst post ever, period.

[Zachary Zoomy]

it wasn't that bad, everyone has thier own opinions...

[hugoluis]

What would be the grace of hitting and you can not go more back? Indeed, this already exists in some servers. That in all the servers would be very bad.

Want reality? Go drive "of truth" that is much more realistic.

Not all people in the world have money to buy a steering wheel.

Almost the majority of your suggestions already exist in some servers in S2. What you should get some of their suggestions in the game is simply buy the license and have fun.

[Bumpdrafter]

THE FOLLOWING POST IS IN PORTUGUESE


About the license plate, did you mean, running to unlock the car? Why I bought the licence then?



Ele se refere a placa do carro.

[hugoluis]

THE FOLLOWING POST IS IN PORTUGUESE

Ele se refere a placa do carro.

Oh.. My mistake

I dont understand english very well... :D

[Glorian]

by license plate i mean the thing on the back\front of your car: I mean, its kinda silly to have on on the FXR dont ya think?:shrug:

the wheel thing was kinda a joke, of how people always put you down if you use anything else. I use a gamepad...

[Bumpdrafter]

Now a serious post:

Go check netKar PRO. It has some of the (crap) features you suggested here. And it is also a very good sim.

[Evoluti0n_II]

i got some more suggestions...
1. remove every .dds texture since real life cars and environments arent .dds textures.
2. invent a system that breaks your bones or kills you in case of a crash
3. make it impossible to drive in usual clothes. race drivers need proper fire resistant suits.
4. build every lfs track and car, because in real life you cant log on to the nordschleife and select your car on a screen.
5. get your own professional garage and pit crew to change your cars setup.
6. get lost
7. print money to afford all that shxt

:really:

[Glorian]

if its so good, why don't you go play it and leave lfs along then? Then everybody would be happy.

[Glorian]

wow, best community EVER. you say the game is TOO realistic, you get flamed. You suggest it to be MORE realistic, you get flamed. You don't buy a license and play the demo, you get flamed.

[dawesdust_12]

Try arguing about Diff's, that'll create some more fun.

Lucky I just bought chips too.

[Glorian]

.....locked rear diffs are the best ever......:D

[Bumpdrafter]

wow, best community EVER. you say the game is TOO realistic, you get flamed. You suggest it to be MORE realistic, you get flamed. You don't buy a license and play the demo, you get flamed.

The point is: suggestions for added realism are ACCEPTED, as long as they aren't stupid as yours.

Why your suggestions are stupid? Because if implemented, they would increase the level of annoyance of the game to a ultra high level. Not sure if i used the right words, so off to examples:



you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

So if i wanted to go to the pits again to change my car setup, i would have to drive all the way back to the pits?

One word for it: POINTLESS (for a game anyway)

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D


Some just play the game for FUN, others play it because they want a realistic experience of driving a (race)car. For the latter ones, a steering wheel is almost mandatory. The fact that LFS supports keyboards, mouses, whatever, increases the amount of people that can play the game (because every single working computer in the world has a keyboard or a mouse. most have both)

Strangely enough, you suggest this, and use a gamepad to drive :really: If a steering wheel was mandatory, you wouldn't be even playing the demo.

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

So every single time i want to, say, see if my gear ratios are correct, i must drive into the pits and then wait several minutes for the gear adjustement to take place, and then do everything again?

POINTLESS

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

The only suggestion that makes some sense. I doubt that something on these lines isn't on Scawen's plans.

Get rid of license plates on all cars that are not road cars. Race cars do not have license plates.

The reason because the race cars have license plates is called Creative Freedom. IF all the race cars depicted in the game were real, then your suggestion would make sense, but they aren't, so why the hell they can't have license plates?


I'll repeat it again, if you want a game with these (crap) features, go to netKar PRO.

[Lester.US]

by license plate i mean the thing on the back\front of your car: I mean, its kinda silly to have on on the FXR dont ya think?
Silly to have plates on an FXR? They always remind me of a Mazda RX-7 FC when I see them. Most of the RX7-s have plates...
http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Merchant/catalog/jdm/ma/rx7fc/featured/frontpic.jpg

[halo]

Pls. go & check "Improvement suggestions". :)
You may post your suggestions if they are not already there.

[frokki]

Silly to have plates on an FXR? They always remind me of a Mazda RX-7 FC when I see them. Most of the RX7-s have plates...
OT: How does 80's RWD sports car remind you of 90's 400hp fully race prepped 4WD? They don't even share the looks.

You propably meant XRT :)

[WizardHat]

If you want people to actually listen to your suggestions, it'd be a good idea to type them out politely, and give valid reasons as to why they should be added or excluded. Not 'We need this, this & that, because I don't like that feature!"

As per your wheel suggestion, you have to remember that not everybody can afford a wheel, and some people play LFS solely for fun, not for a realistic experience.

[Drifting101]

me need to make lfs more realistic. I am proposing some changes.

first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

That should be an option. That way, in certain servers, people can't go back into the race, ignore the blue flag (or do not ignore it but do not know what to do), and cause an accident that takes out 1st place. Some people want it on to make quick changes to their setups (like me).

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

Then that makes the game more expensive than Rock Band, and that's pretty freaking expensive. Think about how many people want a good race sim. Now think about how they feel when they found one but it says "you must have a wheel". Pretty bad, especially if you aren't such a spoiled person and is too busy or too young to get money.:(

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

Well, what if you don't want to wait? Patience wears thin, especially when you want to play this game for some fun or stress relief.:scratchch

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

Will happen when damage physics are better and maybe if the teleport to pits thing becomes an option that can be disabled.

Overall, I guess they are O.K. excpet for the wheel one. All you need to do is to put a little more thought to them and maybe they may turn out better. The difference between real life and LFS is the feeling. If it smelled, felt, sounded, etc. like a race track, then you wouldn't care about how you have to wait to change cars and all. You would be too sucked into the action to feel impatience or whatever you feel in LFS (except maybe frustration from someone who clipped you). But I don't see any game that would use all of the senses to make a game hyper-realistic anytime soon so we might as well make it more convenient and not frustrating.

[JJ72]

Just a note, the Brazilian guy above don't represent the attitude of the forum as a whole.

geez people chill outtttt

[niels1]

Hmmm let me think.

Get rid of license plates on all cars that are not road cars. Race cars do not have license plates.

A demo racer who is asking for improvements on special roadcars ?? :shrug:. Why dont you buy S2, have a long go at it and then you can say something about this game. Demo is to get you excited nothing more nothing less.

first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

Pits teleported, whats the point ?. Well that you dont interfer with other drivers who did manage to get a clean lape in. And you`ll be in the way with your wrecked wich isnt driveable anymore.

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

If your crashed that bad get outta race and wait until next 1 started. Thats your own decision. Secondly a lot of S2 servers use a position on grid by your lapetime. So if you crash out on T1 for instances you still be able to get a decent lape in and for next race a better position on starting grid.

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

Why do you think it sometimes takes so long having a pitstop ?. If real racers want more fuel they already notified to the pits crew. The same for different for different tyres or tyre pressur. Now we dont have the communication with the pits on radio, but we have f12. Is the same only implented differently.


Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

If your that serious why your playing with a gamepad ?.

Now next time you ask for improvement use some common sence first. Think about it first for you write something down becus you obviously didnt think about it upfront. You just wrote something down to get off your chest. Secondly you cant be serious about this if your a demo driver. No offence but you just seen 10% of a game and yet you already seem to think you can change the game ??? :shrug:

[Polyracer]

Yup, some peeps are just plain ignorant, agressive, and dismissive.

The guy just made some suggestions, - whether you agree or disagree, some of the comments are not very inviting to the community are they?

[ZORER]

Well, the post is not that bad why is there so much argument going on. Some of his suggestions are already real in some servers it's just he didn't know that because they are s2 servers. And the number plate suggestion is really good we don't need numberplates on lfs do we? It looks a bit ugly imo.

[tristancliffe]

Nearly everyone that has posted in this thread so far are complete twats. You should all be ashamed of yourselves!! Even I, who isn't exactly the warmest forum personality, wouldn't have treated this guy like that!

me need to make lfs more realistic. I am proposing some changes.Good - LFS needs to be more realistic, so good on your for taking the time!

first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.Absolutely agree. But, you have to admit it would make the 'quick pick-up-and-play races more annoying? This is why I think a hardcore mode (no physics changes, just forced options) is a good idea, where insta-pitting isn't allowed. In normal gameplay you should be able to pit, but not rejoin during a race. And in practice/qualifying (not in HC mode) it should be free.

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:DI partially agree with you. I think LFS has pandered to the cheapskates long enough! But there are other reasons why people want to play with mice, keyboards, joysticks etc. We have have a 'forum moron' who uses TWO JOYSTICKS!!!! And he rants about realism too!!!! So LFS needs to remain open in this regard, but ensuring that crap controllers do not give an overall advantage.

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?Up to a point yes. But have you played nKP? That has this feature and it's VERY annoying in pick up races. Probably a bit more fun in leagues. Bear in mind some changes and/or accident repairs can take hours or days to repair. Even simple camber changes aren't a five minute job, as then tracking, corner weights etc need attention. How far should LFS go in this regard?

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.100% agree, although perhaps respawning should be allowed in non-hardcore mode.
Get rid of license plates on all cars that are not road cars. Race cars do not have license plates.Yup, would be nice, but not really important at all. Although some race cars DO have licence plates (I think).

I might think of more, so I will add on later.Keep them coming. Don't be put off by these people they know not what they talk about. We're quite sensible overall and friendly. Although I won't take fools gladly, so if you suggest neons on drift cars with NOS then prepare to do war.

[MarioX]

Say what you want, I can fully understand OP.
And I also would like to see ALL the points he mentions implemented...

You simply can't get too real. Now LFS still plays like a game with great physics. It would be dream come true, if all those realistic/maybe frustrating elements would change the way we drive.

You say it would be annoying and pointless - imo it would be realistic and that's the only thing that should matter. SIMULATOR must simulate reality.



p.s. before somebody suggests me to and play nkp - I won't because it's buggy, unfinished (more so than LFS), unsupported by its lazy dev and features only a few least powerful single-seaters.

p.p.s. before somebody suggests me to go to race for real, well there are two reasons why people drive in simulators and not irl - because of possible injury/death and because of lack of money. Just give me needed money to race something for real and I won't touch racing sims ever again...

[frokki]

Tristan has clearly lost his virginity! :x

[mkinnov8]

Now a serious post:

Go check netKar PRO. It has some of the (crap) features you suggested here. And it is also a very good sim.

Hang on, why where the points the OP suggested crap? Yes, they have been suggested before im sure, but they are still valid.

I think that perhaps its not what you would have suggested, but doesn't make them crap.

Basically at the moment, none of those things mentioned are top priority at this time to the LFS Development team, look at the last two patches to see the direction..

Dont be put off by the responses you received. The majority of this community are nice and will give you more than the time of day. However, everyone seems to think they have become moderators lately.

To those that pick up on my posts, yes, when I said everyone, I meant everyone. Read is just as it is there matie. Don't add your own translation please.

[Dajmin]

I'm certainly glad nobody has ever posted any of those requests before...

I'm all about a hardcore mode though. I think the fact that it's so easy to teleport and rejoin makes people drive less cautiously than they otherwise would. If you trash your car and have to spend the next 10 minutes driving back to the pits, or flip on a chicane and have to wait there til the end of the race, that would probably stop the crazy behaviour you see on some servers.

But you can't punish people for not using a wheel. Some people can't afford one. Sometimes they break. Sometimes people don't want to spend out an assload of cash on a peripheral for something they only pick up once in a while. Some people might not have any spare ports to plug one in.

[tristancliffe]

Some Bullshit Here

Now next time you ask for improvement use some common sence first. Think about it first for you write something down becus you obviously didnt think about it upfront. You just wrote something down to get off your chest. Secondly you cant be serious about this if your a demo driver. No offence but you just seen 10% of a game and yet you already seem to think you can change the game ??? :shrug:


Next time you reply to an improvement SUGGESTION, how about using some common sense first? Think about it first before you write something down because you obviously didn't think about it up front. You just wrote something down to get it off your chest. Secondly, you can't be serious if you don't like aspects of his ideas.

Ever thought that seeing 10% of the game (actually, less), and seeing videos, the website etc etc gives him enough idea to comment. Pitstops, shift-P etc are all in the demo, and thus he can comment.

[aoun]

me need to make lfs more realistic. I am proposing some changes.

first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

Get rid of license plates on all cars that are not road cars. Race cars do not have license plates.

I might think of more, so I will add on later.

Yeh they do.

[J_Matrix]

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?


These are both things related to game design. Let's take the first, you need a wheel to play.

Ok, so think about how many players can afford to buy a decent wheel. Not everybody. So if you want to sell the game, you must also deal with this, developing an interface that allows even non-wheeled people to play the game.

I'm developing a space combat simulator, but we are mainly developing it to be used with mouse&keyboard. Of course using other controllers will be allowed, but that would not be necessary.

Removing mouse&keyboard support would just make sellings worse; then think about those players that after the "no mouse" patch goes out can't play the game anymore. Funny..

About the instant changes. Ok, LFS is realistic, but one of the best aspects is that it is a game too. Compared to many other products, the interface, everything is the most EASY to learn and to use.
I'd also like to put in my simulator that you can't change an entire rack of missiles in one click with one of another kind, but it's a choice of game design. I would instantly abandon LFS if each damn time i change a gear ratio i have to wait x time before the change gets applied. Sure it would be realistic, but then you would only permit the game to be played by hardcore gamers only, and devs would sell FAR less copies..

[tristancliffe]

But if it were an option they should sell MORE copies ;)

[southamptonfc]

I agree with this line of thinking. A sim needs to be accessible otherwise it will never attract enough new blood and will forever remain a small fish. Having adjustable server realism like no reset and no mid race join is the way forwards imo.

[JTbo]

me need to make lfs more realistic. I am proposing some changes.

first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

Get rid of license plates on all cars that are not road cars. Race cars do not have license plates.

I might think of more, so I will add on later.

+1

All those saying go away, I say this, you go away, if you don't like to get harcore realism, then there are about thousand titles that provide fun and enjoyable racing, but only one that has aim to be realistic and that is LFS.

rFactor some may start to say, but let's face it, rFactor devs have said that their aim is not to create ultra realistic sim, but something fun to play with semi realistic physics.

Netkar was something we hoped much, but developer did abandon it :(

So if you have come to LFS thinking it is fun game to play online, you got into it with wrong bases, word realistic is in name and it does mean quite lot of things op did mention.

Selling more has not been goal of LFS, if it has been, there would be more bloom your eyes can take and then bit more...

edit: I would be very happy to have these even as an hardcore option, if not possible to make them permanent :)

[Evoluti0n_II]

I think some people are going a step too far with their "lfs is not for fun, its for ultra uber super realistic racing" attitude...

There are still quite some things that could be improved in terms of realism, BUT imo everyone who supports this "remove mouse and kb" crap should get a cockpit instead of an office chair, or has anyone here ever seen a racing car with an office chair and no seatbelts? or a plastic wheel mounted on a desk? i dont think so.
yes, lfs is a sim but still a game, dont forget that.
If you want some serious reality, grab your car and take it to a race track...
my 2 cents

[Dajmin]

As Scawen has said in the past, sometimes you have to sacrifice some realism to keep people interested.

Without things like the ability to teleport to the pits as an option, your race is over if you make any mistake. Since the vast majority of LFSers are casuals who run shorter public races, this isn't any good. You crash, or some muppet crashes into you, you flip and you need to wait 10 minutes on your roof to be able to drive again?
The only thing that leads to is someone leaving a server. Too many features like that and they leave the game entirely.Go on, flame me for saying "game"...

The bottom line is it's not a career. The idea of timed pitstops might work in terms of long events, but for the average 10-lapper it's pointless. You'd lose far more time stopping to change a setting than you would keeping going with the wrong one.

[zeugnimod]

So if you have come to LFS thinking it is fun game to play online, you got into it with wrong bases

That's exactly the RIGHT basis if you ask me. LFS IS a fun game to play online. :shrug:

[JTbo]

I think some people are going a step too far with their "lfs is not for fun, its for ultra uber super realistic racing" attitude...

There are still quite some things that could be improved in terms of realism, BUT imo everyone who supports this "remove mouse and kb" crap should get a cockpit instead of an office chair, or has anyone here ever seen a racing car with an office chair and no seatbelts? or a plastic wheel mounted on a desk? i dont think so.
yes, lfs is a sim but still a game, dont forget that.
If you want some serious reality, grab your car and take it to a race track...
my 2 cents

There is bloody snow and ice on track and it is closed, but I take my car to track at summer, I think you that think LFS is game are decreasing it's standards, how you like from that?

Go play project torque, it has all fun and enough good physics for fun racing game, how about that, does it feel nice and good to read that?

Grow up ppl.


If someone would have told before S1 that LFS will have features it now has we would have been reading similar comments, making it more real does not make it impossible just more natural experience.

I have put some money to have big enough screen that I can actually see more like I do see in real car, I have shifter and 3 pedals as in car, I work my arse off to get my driving enviroment more like real car so that I can enjoy driving on track at winter when our tracks are closed.

What those gamer persons don't seem to understand is that some are actually using LFS as a simulator...

[JTbo]

That's exactly the RIGHT basis if you ask me. LFS IS a fun game to play online. :shrug:

WRONG

LFS is fun online racing simulator to play online, read LFS about page again :razz:

[Bumpdrafter]

Hang on, why where the points the OP suggested crap? Yes, they have been suggested before im sure, but they are still valid.

I think that perhaps its not what you would have suggested, but doesn't make them crap.

Basically at the moment, none of those things mentioned are top priority at this time to the LFS Development team, look at the last two patches to see the direction..



Okay, i was very rude in my posting, but thats how i feel about the suggestions anyway, but still, i admit that the words used were probably not the best ones.:x

I have posted my "thoughts" (making a nice post at 4AM its quite hard) of why they aren't any good in my point of view (quick pick up races). However, I admit that those ideas would be interesting if introduced in some sort of crazy, uberhardcore mode.

[Dajmin]

WRONG

LFS is fun online racing simulator to play online, read LFS about page again
But the key word must be "FUN". Bear in mind that you fall into the minority of people who play LFS as hardcore fans.
The very reason I don't like traditional MMORPGs is because of the endless grind you have to put in just to feel like you're advancing. I very much doubt that the Scavier lads want to recreate that in LFS. You have to drive to improve, sure, that's a given. But you shouldn't need to sit and study everything about the cars in order to competitive.

If we're talking about true realism here, should we ban the ability to download setups? Surely recent F1 events should tell you that IRL racing authorities don't take too kindly to using someone else's data.

It has to be fun. As a result, some features must be lost and some must be retained. To be a "simulator", only the physics need to be accurate. The rest is up to the players. So by all means add these kind of features as serverside options, but you'll find that most people will drive on servers where they're disabled.

[JTbo]

Funnily enough some teams do exchange information IRL, they even can give spare parts if you are missing something. Of course not in F1, but that is craphole of motor racing anyway :D

You are saying no because you are afraid you won't be competitive?

Now how would that be when you will have less setup options to fiddle with, driving will be pretty much to same, only hitting something would be more severe, how does it make it harder to be competitive?

Thing is, differences are quite small and easy to get adjusted to, for example clutch heat, not big deal really, lot of crying from minority still, 13% made noise of over 50% from that.

And as I wrote that I would be perfectly happy with such option, what are you now afraid, are you afraid that it is actually majority that might like from added challenge and you are alone with your definition of fun? Or what it is that you are against such option?

Just curious here :)

[nihil]

To be a "simulator", only the physics need to be accurate. The rest is up to the players.


Such common sense is so welcome... What a licenced user does on the 'real' side of the screen is no one else's business. So long as the cars react to input like cars, and the devs give server admins the tools to construct engaging racing environments, there should be no problems.

lot of crying from minority still...

And a lot of tedious 'Simulationista' snottiness... Both camps irritate me...

[Evoluti0n_II]

I think you that think LFS is game are decreasing it's standards, how you like from that?
huh?

Go play project torque, it has all fun and enough good physics for fun racing gameits one of the worst games ever

how about that, does it feel nice and good to read that?ive experienced some unpleasant things in my life, this isnt one of them


I have put some money to have big enough screen that I can actually see more like I do see in real carthats -1 for realism

i have shifter and 3 pedals as in carand i assume that you are still sitting on an office chair

What those gamer persons don't seem to understand is that some are actually using LFS as a simulator...What you dont seem to understand is that im not saying i dont want more realism, i just want ppl to understand that lfs is a GAME!! which is simulating reality.


€dit: pretty much everything that happens behind a monitor just isnt real..
chatting with a girl for example... is it a date? NO
sitting at home behind a wheel, driving a pixel car on a pixel track....is it real racing? NO

To be a "simulator", only the physics need to be accurate. The rest is up to the players.
Agreed.

[Dajmin]

I don't really care either way, I'm just putting out the facts. I like the idea of a hardcore sim where every mistake could cost you the entire race. But I'm not the majority either, which is why I feel I have to point these things out.
It's rare that anyone gets bounced onto their roof from a standard accident, or takes so much unintentional damage that they need to retire anyway.

Look at it this way. Random engine failures have been suggested and shot down a few times. Why? Because to start a race and drive perfectly only to have your car suddenly crap out on you is not a fun feature. Happens sometimes IRL, so it's realistic. But is it fun? No. And as such we don't have it.

You join a 10 lap race round BL1. Someone pounds you off the track at T1 and you end up on your roof. You have 2 options:
1. Do the realistic thing and sit there until the end of the race.
2. Pit and rejoin the race.

With 1 you could argue you're not allowed to get up and go to the bathroom or make a cup of tea either, because a real driver wouldn't be able to. Which obviously, being such a dedicated fan of realism, we assume you wouldn't do :p Nor can you change view to spectate. So you can sit there for 14 minutes, staring at a windscreen full of asphalt. Well worth £24, I think :)

2 is the fun option. By that time you have no hope in the race, but you can still do the thing the sim was designed for - driving.

Now the car resetting option was made a serverside option. It removes a bit of realism to get you back onto the track. Some servers disable it, some don't. No reason not to have the same thing for this. But I still think that most people would be happier racing somewhere it's disabled.

[E-speed]

Here you guys have another BAD first post. But the community here is really feed up with crap. That’s bad. Because of this I will never buy this game then. That’s a promise.

Some people talk about that the Y path is to realistic and here we have one who think it’s not realistic enough. But it seems that only the people who thinks that LFS is just perfect is about to be accepted at this forum.

It takes one quick look from the side of the track of LFS to understand that the cars doesn’t behave as they do in the real world. Look at GPL or NetKarpro. There it doesn’t look like a cartoon when you watch the cars. How realistic is it when you can change gear by holding the paddle and just release a little bit of gas to change gear? How realistic is it when you crash?!

So why don’t you realize that the game isn’t a super duper car sim. It’s a game and its really funny to play. It’s not made for God and it’s absolutely not made by God and people who doesn’t believe in your religion is not stupid by definition.

And all this complaining about demo-users. That’s just rubbish. We are not going to steal your game if we play the demo. If there is a demo people are going to play it. That’s not a thing you guys need to cry about.

Well, maybe I should have started a new thread or posted in a different thread. This is just what comes out from me since I have bin reading this forum for a while now. And actually I don’t think it matter what and where I post since I’m a demo and we are always wrong..:)

[Dajmin]

You realise that was just blatant flame-bait, right? You've just added a new mixture of fuel to an already raging fire, my friend :)

[thisnameistaken]

Instead of banning mouses and keyboards and gamepads to reduce player numbers, why not just put a cap on the number of S2 licenses and stop letting new customers buy the game?

OK so that's a bit harsh, so how about we kick out some of the S2 players we don't like and then we can let some more demo people in? Now it's starting to sound more appealing, eh? :D

[Glenn67]

To be a "simulator", only the physics need to be accurate. The rest is up to the players. So by all means add these kind of features as serverside options, but you'll find that most people will drive on servers where they're disabled.

Server side options is all that is needed and all that is desired by people wishing for more hardcore modes. I don't understand why so many get paranoid that the hardcore guys want LFS to be 100% hardcore mode :shrug: we don't we just want server side options to create servers to cater for that.

I like races around 20 - 30 laps on public servers.
I like track day style sessions.
I like the no teleport to pit otion and would like to see more people drive in such a way as they can be certain they will finish a race rather than do or die attitude.

I'd like to be able to use a set of tyres for the life of them (i.e. road supers for 8 - 10,000km of driving)
I'd like to see damage carried over to the next race and even for entire event calendars, along with alocated number of sets of tyres, setup restrictions, etc.
I'd like to race against others that have realistic setups. (i.e. wheel, shifters, three pedals, suround screens, racing cockpits, etc.)
I'd like to see live track (rubber, dirt, oil, marbles, water, cool shaded track, varying track conditions) and weather conditions.
I'd like to see brake heat, wear, brake fluid temp simulated.
I'd like to see mechanical fatigue and much more :p

Would I want everyone to be forced to like what I like? No.

You are right if more server side hardcore options were implemented most would join servers with these options disabled, but I suspect you would find that many that perhaps don't even venture onto public 5 lap pickup races would also start to come out of the wood work and join those hardcore servers. But I guess we want know for sure until such time as they are implemented. It may even attract a whole new market segment to LFS who knows :scratchch

[tristancliffe]

It takes one quick look from the side of the track of LFS to understand that the cars doesn’t behave as they do in the real world. No, not quite, but it gets closer than most.
Look at GPL or NetKarpro. There it doesn’t look like a cartoon when you watch the cars.You happen to have picked LFS's closest competitors, both of which are quite good. GPL is a million years old and shows now, whilst nKP was only coded for a fortnight then abandoned.
How realistic is it when you can change gear by holding the paddle and just release a little bit of gas to change gear?With the limitations of computer controllers (i.e. not a mechanical link to a gearbox) then pretty damn good actually. Okay, so you can hold it all the time, and not break stuff like in real life, but there isn't a way round that at the present time.
How realistic is it when you crash?!No game has good crash physics. Some have bits that fall off, but the vehicle dynamics are wrong, LFS has good dynamics (assuming you don't suffer from the rare 'fly into the air' bug), but no bling to them. It's a WIP, and if you 'promise' not to buy it on the evidence of today you might regret that a year or two down the line.

LFS IS fun. And it should be. But it should also cater for the hardcore geeks as well if required. It should NOT be intended for the casual gamer (much like X-Plane isn't), although they should be able to play if they wish. GT4, GTR2, rFactor, Forza all cater perfectly for the casual gamer/racer, so why should LFS emulate them? Why can't it fill the niche that is missing - a realistic (and potentially hardcore) driving simulator where it's not only the physics that are realistic, but also driving views, setup options, insta-pitting etc? Why does LFS have to remain dumbed down for casual people who, frankly, don't really care about LFS per se, but themselves having fun?

Besides, the minority isn't as small as you'd think, and of that minority the majority would get MORE fun out of more realism and less pandering.

Usual disclaimer I write when the potential for idiots is high: Obviously there ARE limits to realism because we are sat in front of computers, with controls of varying degrees of realism, but lacking mechanical attachement to the car. We know this, and Scavier knows this. It will be taken into account, so playability isn't reduced beyond acceptable levels. And, this is my opinion, not anyone elses, and not Scaviers. I have no affiliation with it, but this is how I see LFS developing based on the last, what, four or five years or so.

So why don’t you realize that the game isn’t a super duper car sim. It’s a game and its really funny to play. It’s not made for God and it’s absolutely not made by God and people who doesn’t believe in your religion is not stupid by definition.

And all this complaining about demo-users. That’s just rubbish. We are not going to steal your game if we play the demo. If there is a demo people are going to play it. That’s not a thing you guys need to cry about.

Well, maybe I should have started a new thread or posted in a different thread. This is just what comes out from me since I have bin reading this forum for a while now. And actually I don’t think it matter what and where I post since I’m a demo and we are always wrong..:)[/quote]

[Mazz4200]

OK so that's a bit harsh, so how about we kick out some of the S2 players we don't like and then we can let some more demo people in? Now it's starting to sound more appealing, eh? :D

Oh bollocks, thats me gone then :(
_____


I'm all for LFS Hardcore Nutter mode, the hardcore the better, but only as a server side option. I don't think it would be in anyones interest, least of all the Devs, to drive away the guys who have a more 'arcady' approach to LFS. Teh-tinternet is a bloody huge place if anyone hadn't noticed, so i think there's enough room here for all types of LFS'ers, erm, except cruisers, and drifters, and ricers, and ermm... ;)

_____

@ Dajmin, you wuss, toilet breaks !!, do what i do and wee into a little plastic bag...... :shy: erm, maybe too much information there, i'll shut up now

[thisnameistaken]

do what i do and wee into a little plastic bag...... :shy: erm, maybe too much information there, i'll shut up now

I find it's tricky to figure out whether a bag has a hole in it before you wee in it.

[the_angry_angel]

How to make LFS more realistic.Programming. Time. Energy.

Teaching the developers how to suck eggs.. not so much.

:tilt:

[Mazz4200]

I find it's tricky to figure out whether a bag has a hole in it before you wee in it.

Easy, just blow into it :)


Just need to be certain you've not used it before :schwitz:

[thisnameistaken]

Hehe :D

[JTbo]

and i assume that you are still sitting on an office chair

What you dont seem to understand is that im not saying i dont want more realism, i just want ppl to understand that lfs is a GAME!! which is simulating reality.

Leather seats baby, real leather :razz:

Problem with stating it as game is that casual gamers and those that don't game can't get impression of it being any different from Grand Turismo for example, so I would avoid that to the last moment.

[Dajmin]

Bah, I'd just wet myself. At least that way you get a brief period of warm comfort, then the cold to keep you awake :)

Disclaimer: This is an obvious fraudulent lie. If you took it seriously you have given me legal rights to come round your house and beat you to death with an iron

[z3r0c00l]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense :thumb:

[thisnameistaken]

Could a mod please change the title of this thread to "Pissing In Bags" please.

[DasBoeseC]

sitting at home behind a wheel, driving a pixel car on a pixel track....is it real racing? NO

I have a different view.....

The CARS may be VIRTUAL, but the RACE is VERY REAL!

@Glorian - Most of the features on your list are on mine aswell.....and I really hope they will be implemented as a server-side option.....

CU, Sebastian

PS: What I do not get is people that confuse 'making it more hardcore' with 'making it less fun'.....for sure these features may be bad for Pick-Up races, but some of these are essential when thinking about serious online racing series.....and I hope that we will see cars in the MoE standing in the pits for more than 20 minutes after a bad impact.....

[wsinda]

You don't need Scavier's help. Here is what you can do yourself to make LFS as realistic as possible:
Throw away your PC and lock your bank account. Then you beg, steal and borrow the money for a new rig. Real race cars are so expensive that racers have to talk all kinds of people into sponsoring them. And so should you.
You're a junior racer, so you can only race the XFG for the first 2 years. Forget the BF1, you won't be ready for that until 2013. (If you'll ever be good enough.)
Place a pneumatic drill under your seat, plus an electric heater. Real race cars have stiff springs and are very noisy and hot. True hardcore fans also have a bucket of gasoline at the side, so they can inhale noxious fumes while racing.
Keep a sledge hammer handy. In case you crash at 150 km/h or more, pick it up and break both your legs. (And if you crash at more than 250 km/h ... :tombstone)</sarcasm>

[Mazz4200]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_scents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense) :thumb:

:really:

Could a mod please change the title of this thread to "Pissing In Bags" please.

Roffle :D

Maybe "Pissing into the Wind" is more apt

[Glenn67]

You don't need Scavier's help. Here is what you can do yourself to make LFS as realistic as possible:
Keep a sledge hammer handy. In case you crash at 150 km/h or more, pick it up and break both your legs. (And if you crash at more than 250 km/h ... :tombstone)
Well that's not very realistic :really: the XFG is an eighties car so is unlikely to have air bags and we know it doesn't have seatbelts so the speed at which you would have serious injury and ultimately death is much lower than what you sugest :p Come on your not hardcore enough :D

[JTbo]

You don't need Scavier's help. Here is what you can do yourself to make LFS as realistic as possible:
Throw away your PC and lock your bank account. Then you beg, steal and borrow the money for a new rig. Real race cars are so expensive that racers have to talk all kinds of people into sponsoring them. And so should you.
You're a junior racer, so you can only race the XFG for the first 2 years. Forget the BF1, you won't be ready for that until 2013. (If you'll ever be good enough.)
Place a pneumatic drill under your seat, plus an electric heater. Real race cars have stiff springs and are very noisy and hot. True hardcore fans also have a bucket of gasoline at the side, so they can inhale noxious fumes while racing.
Keep a sledge hammer handy. In case you crash at 150 km/h or more, pick it up and break both your legs. (And if you crash at more than 250 km/h ... :tombstone)</sarcasm>

That is not very good sarcasm as many of those are focusing to minor things, limited setup options and missing minimap would be much better subjects to tamper with.

Need to put your helmet on before racing or LFS would give you black flag, ignore black flag and you are not allowed to race on that track for few years :)

I find it also funny how some have need to take subjects to some extremes when more realism is asked, maybe it is some kind of narrow minded what I see lot today too.

[nihil]

I find it also funny how some have need to take subjects to some extremes when more realism is asked, maybe it is some kind of narrow minded what I see lot today too.

No, we're just taking the piss out of the very po-faced attitude that a lot of Simulationista's present the world with.

In GPL there has always been a running joke about the Reality Police, but its always been good humoured, because the RP have always provided fascinating, hard, historical facts to back up their opinions.

The LFS simulationista faction just seem to sneer in really adolescent way at the rest of the community. You bore us. Even those of us (me, if you need it written clearly) who would support a large number of the developmental routes that you would recommend for LFS.

[sosna]

i got some more suggestions...
1. remove every .dds texture since real life cars and environments arent .dds textures.
2. invent a system that breaks your bones or kills you in case of a crash
3. make it impossible to drive in usual clothes. race drivers need proper fire resistant suits.
4. build every lfs track and car, because in real life you cant log on to the nordschleife and select your car on a screen.
5. get your own professional garage and pit crew to change your cars setup.
6. get lost
7. print money to afford all that shxt

:really:

crazy crazy lol from me!u simly rock!Thanks for making my day!:thumb::):):D:D

[sosna]

That is not very good sarcasm as many of those are focusing to minor things, limited setup options and missing minimap would be much better subjects to tamper with.

Need to put your helmet on before racing or LFS would give you black flag, ignore black flag and you are not allowed to race on that track for few years :)

I find it also funny how some have need to take subjects to some extremes when more realism is asked, maybe it is some kind of narrow minded what I see lot today too.

yes realism is needed but some compromises are to be here,cause although its a sim its still a game played through a monitor and so on...

imagine we have to wait 10 or 20 minutes so that our suspension is being changed,its not evev logical,is there so much time in the world?i guess not!


and i assume that you are still sitting on an office chair

What you dont seem to understand is that im not saying i dont want more realism, i just want ppl to understand that lfs is a GAME!! which is simulating reality.

my point exactly!

[wsinda]

many of those are focusing to minor things, limited setup options and missing minimap would be much better subjects to tamper with.They are not "minor things". If they were, some people might consider doing them. No, my suggestions are simply crazy; you'd have to be an idiot to take them seriously. Still, they do make LFS more like real-life racing. So why does nobody support them? Don't you want maximum realism??

The point I'm trying to make is that "increasing realism" is not a valid reason for changing LFS. You may support the suggestions of the OP in this thread, not because they increase realism, but because you like them and would have more fun if LFS would work that way. Other people may not like them. Tastes differ.

[JTbo]

They are not "minor things". If they were, some people might consider doing them. No, my suggestions are simply crazy; you'd have to be an idiot to take them seriously. Still, they do make LFS more like real-life racing. So why does nobody support them? Don't you want maximum realism??

The point I'm trying to make is that "increasing realism" is not a valid reason for changing LFS. You may support the suggestions of the OP in this thread, not because they increase realism, but because you like them and would have more fun if LFS would work that way. Other people may not like them. Tastes differ.

Last time I did check, I found different shades of grey between white and black.

There is LOADS more that we can move more realistic level without being silly and already some are pulling panic brakes and yelling "oh noe it is only game no those should not ever make to LFS".

If someone thinks that those aspects what OP did post are as ridiculous or crazy, then I would certainly recommend to check that switch of brains is till at position labelled ON

For example Shift-P, it has major affect to racing, currently it spoils racing completely when someone at front spins and suddenly car disappears, of course realism people started to brake to avoid accident but game players just keep it floored and if they crash start to yell shift-p shift-p, those persons hopefully disappear from LFS.
Part of racing is to deal situations thrown at your way, avoiding spinning car is just one of them, it adds to fun as well as realism.

[srdsprinter]

mmm... I had a snack attack last night before I could offer a full reply, and look what happend!

Truthfully I knew this would go epic, and quickly, but I didn't expect to see Tristan being the level-headed one.. :thumb:

Anywho, it was a very interesting first post from a demo racer. While most agree that increases in realism are the direction lfs needs to go, the OP was a bit extreme in some frankly rather strange instances.

Personally, I believe a more finalized damage model in combination with dynamic track changes (wind, water, oil, heat, light, shade, gravel, grass, etc) will do the most for bettering the way people approach LFS.

[wsinda]

There is LOADS more that we can move more realistic level without being sillyWhy are my suggestions silly, if they increase realism? Can you explain??

They are silly because the make LFS less fun. Everybody likes more realism... up to a point. You don't want more realism if it starts to spoil the fun in playing.

The statement "I want this change because it makes LFS more realistic," is not just inexact. It silences the opposition. No one will dare to stand up and say "I don't want it because I like less realism".

But if you say "I want this because it makes LFS more fun", you are more vulnerable. Someone else can say that to him it makes things less fun, and he'd have an equally valid point.
Part of racing is to deal situations thrown at your way, avoiding spinning car is just one of them, it adds to fun as well as realism.That's better! :thumb:

[JTbo]

Why are my suggestions silly, if they increase realism? Can you explain??

They are silly because the make LFS less fun. Everybody likes more realism... up to a point. You don't want more realism if it starts to spoil the fun in playing.

The statement "I want this change because it makes LFS more realistic," is not just inexact. It silences the opposition. No one will dare to stand up and say "I don't want it because I like less realism".

But if you say "I want this because it makes LFS more fun", you are more vulnerable. Someone else can say that to him it makes things less fun, and he'd have an equally valid point.
That's better! :thumb:

Throwing away pc and locking bank account for example, I have bought current system so that I could play sims, I have bought wheel so I could play sims, so I have already spent cash for it and more I must spent to get it to level I hope to get, it would be silly to throw machine away.
Besides, sponsors are for poor as I told, I work my arse off, but that pays also my track day car and trackdays, including simming and perhaps house in future :razz:

I race mainly those cars that are used on road too, also little fbmw, but that is beginner car, so others could be locked or not, I don't use them lot nowdays, again limiting to XFG would be silly, I already have car similar to XRG, which will be bit quicker than XRT in future.

I can put sweater on and I'm planning to get some kind of motion system in future too, so no need to use silly artificial effects, that would be silly.

Broken bones from Crashing is then purely silly, whole idea of simulation is to be able to test things safely without danger, but surely virtual me should have these consequences so I could know how bad crash it was and that would help to understand how dangerous crashing IRL really is, many seem not to know this when I look how they drive IRL.
This one is only accessibility related, one could say fun related, but it really serves realism in best reasonable possible way, imo.

Yeah, if we could feed pain from broken bones and fear of death that occurs when you are close to die (it is really really scary feeling, I know as I have been kick started after accident ;) ), that would add to realism too, but I think it would be taking it too far, someone's mental health might be in danger as people are quite weak minded today.

Ok, it is tongue in cheek, but as you can see, we can turn things way we like, but devs have their own plan that they follow and they surely don't care :razz:

[Drift2007]

the most RETERTED topic ever. Ok for example. If you will crash the hell out of your car. What will you do? Push it to the pits? Not a good idea. LFS Might have more realistic bodyparts damage like bumper falling window crashing etc. It might not be in the next 20 years, however those things might happend.:shrug:

[JTbo]

the most RETERTED topic ever. Ok for example. If you will crash the hell out of your car. What will you do? Push it to the pits? Not a good idea.

Luckily not everyone is fashion whores that need to be and do whatever happens to be cool at given moment :D

If one crashes he is option to go spectate the race, car will be moved away from track by marshals.

[nihil]

...as people are quite weak minded today.



Bought your "humanity is over-rated" t-shirt yet?

No smiley, you can work out for yourself how I mean that comment, but I have to say that insulting someone and then putting a smile on it, is pretty much the same as those daft "sry" binds.

You're not doing anything to dispel the "simulation=humourless ascetism" myth.

[tristancliffe]

Why are my suggestions silly, if they increase realism? Can you explain??

They are silly because the make LFS less fun. Everybody likes more realism... up to a point. You don't want more realism if it starts to spoil the fun in playing.

The statement "I want this change because it makes LFS more realistic," is not just inexact. It silences the opposition. No one will dare to stand up and say "I don't want it because I like less realism".

But if you say "I want this because it makes LFS more fun", you are more vulnerable. Someone else can say that to him it makes things less fun, and he'd have an equally valid point.
That's better! :thumb:

I'm pretty sure I have a disclaimer in one of my posts the covers this very thing. Read it. I'm sure JTbo agrees with it.

[JTbo]

Bought your "humanity is over-rated" t-shirt yet?

No smiley, you can work out for yourself how I mean that comment, but I have to say that insulting someone and then putting a smile on it, is pretty much the same as those daft "sry" binds.

You're not doing anything to dispel the "simulation=humourless ascetism" myth.

I'm part of people too, you seem to assume otherwise, well that must be because some think I'm green rabbit, some think I'm red :scratchch

Anyway time for that multicolour pill and heading to bed :tilt:

PS. I don't know which disclaimer Tristan means, but I can safely agree, what ever it is, he is sensible human being, I hope :razz:

[Polyracer]

yes realism is needed but some compromises are to be here,cause although its a sim its still a game played through a monitor and so on...

Just a thought....

I recently saw some vid where a guy was playing a game where he killed his victims by firing a guided missile form his plane, - he took out the car they were traveling in.

So what? you say, maybe you say "I've played those games"

Except for one thing -
Sure the guy was sat there with with his joystick etc looking at the screen, but....
He was in a military establishment in the States and the plane he was flying was a drone, in some distant country, but the guys in the car were real and just as dead.

So in real terms, you could almost imagine the car that we drive on screen, to be a real car on a real circuit somewhere - with no one in the drivers seat.

So again - in real terms Simracing is as real as you want it to be, all the - "its a game" - "no its a sim" - arguments are trying to find a line that is disappearing very quickly.




I reckon :shrug:

[Hankstar]

the most RETERTED topic ever.Irony 101 is straight down the hall and to your left.

[Ball Bearing Turbo]

Why are my suggestions silly, if they increase realism? Can you explain??

I can explain, it's really really simple, and I'm shocked that Nihil and you of all people don't "get it".

It's about:
A) The way the sim reacts to you (physics, space-time restrictions, etc - the "virtual world")
B) The way YOU interact with the sim

Posts about gasoline, and heaters, and office chairs are null and void (and yes, silly) because they have nothing to do with either A or B, and neither A nor B has any directly related influence from/to the silly ideas.

In short, it's not about "absolute realism", otherwise we might as well quit now. When most humans say they want more "realism" in LFS, that means "realism in the context of what a PC can provide", which is what Tristan was saying. There's no reason to throw it all out the window; wanting more realism is a perfectly valid and attainable goal. Stop confusing the term "realism" with something noone is trying to perpetrate and you'll be fine.

Besides, you can't please everyone, might as well stand for something specfic and do it as well as possible. Noone likes watered down booze or lukewarm soup

Irony 101 is straight down the hall and to your left.

It doesn't appear he needs any instruction on the topic ;)

[frokki]

Irony 101 is straight down the hall and to your left.Doesn't change the fact that this is retarded. :)

Just like me and this 3rd OT post :x

[HighRoad]

Just a note, the Brazilian guy above don't represent the attitude of the forum as a whole.

geez people chill outtttt
+1 Chill out dang it!

[petercollins]

Second, we need to make but necessary to use a wheel. How many cars have you seen that use a mouse, keyboard or gamepad to steer? NONE.
You need a wheel to use LFS. LFS= serious f***ing business.:D

Your ideas should all be optional - I like your principles to make it more realistic and I agree with the theory of not jumping to the pit. Some racers expect the second you begin to spin, you jump to the pits which I think is ridiculous. Crashes, yellow flags and incidents are a fundamental part of racing.

I do have an issue with your wheel-only policy as the only wheel I'd buy is the G25 but it's so bloody expensive!!! €200+....crazy money.

But fair play to you for sticking your neck out and voicing your opinion....shake this place up a bit :thumb:

[tristancliffe]

PS. I don't know which disclaimer Tristan means, but I can safely agree, what ever it is, he is sensible human being, I hope :razz:

Usual disclaimer I write when the potential for idiots is high: Obviously there ARE limits to realism because we are sat in front of computers, with controls of varying degrees of realism, but lacking mechanical attachement to the car. We know this, and Scavier knows this. It will be taken into account, so playability isn't reduced beyond acceptable levels. And, this is my opinion, not anyone elses, and not Scaviers. I have no affiliation with it, but this is how I see LFS developing based on the last, what, four or five years or so.

Hope this helps ;)

[W1ldPort75]

I totally agree with you on some things , but not all . And i apologize for the stupid posts (evolution , wsinda, etc etc) . Its guys like these that make this community a little uglyer :(. Everyone has a different taste , but i guess some people are too dumb to notice that :shrug:. All they care is about themselfs , so think of new ideas to post and fell free to post them :thumb:.

[wsinda]

When an insult comes in the shape of an apology, it's time to close the thread.

[Evoluti0n_II]

[/URL]W1ldPort75 you are talking shit my friend. But whatever...


first, you should not be able to teleport to the pits. (shift-P). You cannot teleport in real life so this should be removed.

Imo theres no need to remove that. What happens if anyone causes a big crash with several cars ending up on their roofs in the middle of the track? More cars will crash and everyone starts spamming " OMFG n00b GTFO teh tRAck, yOOOO!!!"

You need a wheel to use LFS.

Rubbish. Not everyone can afford a wheel. Not everyone wants to use a wheel. Lots of people who are interested in LFS wouldnt buy it because they dont want to spend shxtloads of money for something thats useful for just one game.

You should not be able to make instant changes to your car while in the pits. Changed take time in real life, why not LFS?

Because its stupid. When i start LFS i want to drive, not wait 2 hours after every minor change on my setup.

If you crash bad enough, you should not be able to keep racing. You should not be able to go to the pits and respawn.

Example: Two wrecked cars in So1´s chicane. No teleport & no more driving (to the pits). Carnage

Race cars do not have license plates.

Who the fvck cares about that? Removing the plates is useless. Do you concentrate on the track or the plate of the driver in front of you?


My point is just, that the community should not suggest this kind of rather useless stuff as long as the important things arent done.
Proper Engine, clutch, gearbox damage for example. Or realistic tire behavior. Thats what makes a game more realistic, not removed plates on race cars or a bird poop on blackwoods trees.

[URL="http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=74761"] (http://www.lfsforum.net/member.php?u=74761)

[nihil]

I can explain, it's really really simple, and I'm shocked that Nihil and you of all people don't "get it".

It's about:
A) The way the sim reacts to you (physics, space-time restrictions, etc - the "virtual world")
B) The way YOU interact with the sim


Oh ffs, unshock yourself... Its not a pleasant sight. If you had bothered to read any of my posts you'd realise that I do "get it", and that your A + B explanation is precisely what I have said in many previous posts.

In this thread alone:

So long as the cars react to input like cars, and the devs give server admins the tools to construct engaging racing environments, there should be no problems.

How much ****ing clearer do you need it?

I do "get it", I'm just expressing a great deal of ennui...

And if you'd bother to apply some logic, you'd see that wsinda in no way contradicts your post either. All he is saying is that realism is not necessarily desirable just because it is realistic....

[tristancliffe]

So long as the cars react to input like cars, and the devs give server admins the tools to construct engaging racing environments, there should be no problems.But it's not JUST about the vehicle dynamics to inputs, but also how the player is involved in that process.

Yes, from a car dynamics point of view heli-cam is just as realistic, but from playing/interacting point of view there is a HUGE difference to being cooped up in a cockpit with limited visibility. Is cockpit view identical to reality? No, and it can't be until we all have wrap around monitors and sim-rigs that look just like the car you're driving. But is it better, with a few compromises than heli-cam? Of course.

[XCNuse]

Okay this is getting out of hand, closing thread.

Glorian, please read the Improvement suggestion log (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2626) before making a new thread, all of these have been suggested before anyways.