Should you have to pass tests to use cars?

[Woz]

Back in the old S1 days we had the credit system to lock out cars to noobs. It was not the best system and there were exploits to it that made it simple to get all the cars.

That said, on the whole it meant that people could not access the bigger cars in LFS until that had at least some experience. Something we have now lost.

Should the licence tests be used to unlock cars, so you can only use the car online if you have passed the tests, including the clean passing test, for that car.

The licence details should be part of your LFS profile as well so you can't use copied files etc to unlock etc.

[GobLox]

Try the CTRA =)

[Tweaker]

No matter what, there will always be a credits hack used to obtain cars, so there is always a way around it.

However, I don't mind having to unlock cars based on tests. If we had to do a whole new set of training lessons (which hopefully gets revamped for S2 Final), then I wouldn't mind. It wouldn't be THAT hard. But the only thing that strongly disagrees of this entire idea is the fact that you can always choose any car you want and have fun with it, one reason S1 scrapped the credit system all together. But that was primarily for testing physics of specific cars. So I suppose S2 Final could bring it back.

Try the CTRA =)
No matter what, that is only for online, and doesn't prevent people from driving any car freely on other widely used servers, or offline. And I doubt CTRA will have EVERY car in the line of license progression, it just wouldn't be needed IMO.

If this is a case of noobs using a BF1 for example, training lessons would at least bring forward a bit more knowledge of the car(s) when it is time for them to get online.

What I think the system needs is to have Licensed and Un-Licensed modes on the server. So you could still go on an un-licensed server and race any car that is available. It would just be up to the server admin to have this setting.

[Hankstar]

-1 for a universal, on and offline license-based lock out. As stated, there would always be a hack and such things could potentially inconvenience offline racers :shrug:

However, a server admin option as Tweak suggested could be a good compromise :up: Actually, is it possible for some smart codemonkey out there to implement a points-based car lockout system now?

[Woz]

What I think the system needs is to have Licensed and Un-Licensed modes on the server. So you could still go on an un-licensed server and race any car that is available. It would just be up to the server admin to have this setting.

Yep, makes sense. So admins can allow unlicenced (As in not passed tests :)) use of cars or require passing of tests. In a similar manner to the FCV mode.

-1 for a universal, on and offline license-based lock out. As stated, there would always be a hack and such things could potentially inconvenience offline racers

However, a server admin option as Tweak suggested could be a good compromise Actually, is it possible for some smart codemonkey out there to implement a points-based car lockout system now?

Actually it would not be too hackable if test results were stored on LFS. When a player joined a server the server would receive a list of the cars the driver is licenced for along with the current user name validation etc.

That way all the data is held remote and can't be spoofed. When you pass a test the system would just upload the spr of you taking the test so it can be validated. If the SPR carried a little more encryption (in a similar way to the way setups in replays are encrypted) then it should be good.

[Zachary Zoomy]

+1 but not all the lessons. maybe only the demo ones.

[shiny_red_cobra]

I voted no simply because LFS is not a singleplayer game, and racing against the AI is not fun. They always take the same line, and it's just not the same as online racing. Back in S1 I never liked the points system simply because I had to race against the AI. That took the fun out of the game for me, and games are supposed to be fun.

That said, things might change in the future if we have more servers like the CTRA pop up. If we can drive against other people online to earn points, then I would not be opposed to that. In fact, it could be a very good thing to do, as Woz said, but only if it could be done in multiplayer, where each player has some amount of points next to their license on LFSW. I never want to race against the AI again, and restricting the cars available to me would not be fair. (In fact, in my opinion the AI should be removed altogether, but that's not for me to decide.)

[MRSisson]

I *almost* missed out on Live for Speed's amazingness due to the credit system. I can't be arsed with sh1t like that. Just give me the cars and the tracks and I will drive them and decide if the simulation is for me. I am smart enough to not go online and drive cars and tracks that I don't know; do not keep things locked up because there are a lot of simpletons out there.

[Glenn67]

I hate any game that forces you into a career type mode (passing tests to use certain cars) and basiclly refuse to play them :shrug: I've been driving for 30+ years I know how to drive :p

Not all of us have the time to do that. I like LFS because it's physics are realistic enough to be convincing and you can jump into any car or track and give it a spin. I tend to stay with certain cars that interest me because of my lack of time (for me that is mostly the LX4, LX6, XFG and XRG) So I don't go and jump on a server doing serrious races with the FO8 for example as I'd cock it up due to little or no track time in it :x

In short why penalise everyone for the shortcomings of some :really: the problem is peoples lack of respect for fellow racers and no understanding of track etiquitte. Sure educate the younger players but don't force it on everyone. :tilt:

-1

If there was to be a licensing system then it would need to be very flexable before I'd find it aceptable. i.e. if you want to drive the FO8 online then you must pass the tests for the FO8 not for every car in LFS :scratchch

I think an CTRA style system expanded and with more flexibility would be a better way to ensure good online racing in the future.

[Uncle Rooster]

Should the licence tests be used to unlock cars, so you can only use the car online if you have passed the tests, including the clean passing test, for that car.

When I pay for a game, the last thing I wanna see is being unable to use it.

[BigTime]

Even though I think "some" new drivers shouldn't be in high powered cars, I don't think you should limit it for the ones that are capable of driving them. It's just like when I used to play GTR2... It was just for a short time and yes, I'm very ashamed. :D After a few races your motor skills take over and depending on the driver's skill, will be able to drive that car to the limit or at the very least, in a controlled manner.

Another thing is that a majority of the drivers that aren't going to be able to control these cars will probably be in a pick up server or in single player... Not only do many of the popular pick up servers have car restrictions, it's the server administrators obligation to control who races in their servers. If their is a driver that is causing an issue by being in an uncontrollable, car its the adman's job to do what is needed to keep the environment safe.

I say throw everything you've got at them, unless the restrictions are extremely easy to beat. However I can see how this might draw a few new people to the game, the challenge of getting all the cars, but there are always going to be unique cases. From the dev's view point I'd probably be about 50/50 on this one. If I where buying the game I'd be about 70/30 for all cars. I could be one of those cases? :D

Ether way I don't think I'd have to do anything to get cars (started in 2003) so do it to it.

[frokki]

I'd like this. Imho "too much hassle", "it's boring", or "there will be hacking" aren't valid excuses. If the system is tied to LFS account, you'd only need to complete the lessons once, and if you can't pass at least 1 of the 3 predictable AI's without contact you probably shouldn't go online to race with unpredictable humans anyway.

[Bandit77]

"will pass license-tests for you. gimme your account details and 20 bucks."

wait... I know this from somewhere... america's army, right.

drivers don't behave like idiots because they didn't pass tests, they act like idiots because they are... or just don't care.

[Gekkibi]

Voted yes, 'tho I dislike "Try to win AI without causing a collision" training, because it is more like "Try to win AI, but watch out". Instead, those tests should be like "controlling oversteer", "obeying flags", "coming out from a pit" or "proper braking".

And I would like to have some theory-lessons (text or record of how to do it etc) before actual test.

[Bob Smith]

What I think the system needs is to have Licensed and Un-Licensed modes on the server. So you could still go on an un-licensed server and race any car that is available. It would just be up to the server admin to have this setting.
I like that option. Should help limit the whinging such a feature would bring. Also Vic did mention tieing something into the account system a long time ago, perhaps that is still the eventual plan for S2.

Just as you can't go racing in real life without proving yourself competant, LFS should have some sort of idiot barrier for those servers who choose to adopt it.

[Speed_Flame!RO.]

No... thought i did the Lessons at Pro level....it's bad....to race with Coputed cars...dont touch them...:( ..i had an lesson to race 1 lap without 'crashing' AI's ... well....the race started ...over passed 2 of cars and at the last one in the same way..but at next corner (Blackwood) ....everything fine...until ...the Pro AI Scratched ME and...Lesson Failed :| ...i was so angry :x ..i hate ...like ..when you scratch a little ..the Lesson it's failed ... in X i had Keygen hehe :D .. and i maked (not all the lessons) but...a lot... i did all the drags at Pro level .... still want to have a S2 ...i hate Demo-servers ...and "drivers" ... just ...dumbkopfs ......

btw...i want to make a Demo-Team ...to bad that my creations (skins) are not alowed to be Viewable ... and.. How can make a Sig? i mean..that thing where you put under the post...?? this it's my Second Site where i made an Acount....so i dont know verry well :shy: ..thanks


Speed_Flame!RO.

[frokki]

How can make a Sig? i mean..that thing where you put under the post...?? Signatures and avatars (user pictures) are restricted to lisenced users only.

[nihil]

Debated before (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=17887&highlight=lessons) ... and I'm sure in other threads too.

But no, its just daft. Anyone running a server can implement such a system. Furthermore, if server admins can't be bothered to even do the simple job of maintaining discipline on the track then there's no reason why the rest of the S2 community should be lumbered with the tedious task of climbing some arbitrary ladder. Especially so, for example, when perhaps you just want to do a BF1 LAN session with some mates.

I really do not see any point in the suggestion. Its just software bloat.

[Dajmin]

Yes to a server option.
TBH I'd say yes to an offline option too, since it would force people to learn cars, rather than just joining a server running something they've never played before and killing everyone at the start line.

But not with the AI the way it is :)

[Kristjan.J]

-1

We payed for the cars, so we can use them also for that cash all time. :tilt:

[duke_toaster]

-1

1) The AI are as blind as a bat, in fact all AI in everything are stupid. They are dangerous in the other tests.
2) I already paid for the cars.
3) The current lessons are rather silly IMO.
4) Pick-up-and-drive online is one of the best things about LFS.

[Bob Smith]

Pick up and play isn't affected if you've passed all the lessons. Yes, doing so is a chore, but if you're any good it won't take you long at all. If it's tied in to your account, you'll never have to do them again, either (unlike the old points system).

The lessons can always be improved and Scawen has already mentioned improving the awareness of the AI in the future, or at least that he hadn't got around to it for this ptach, implying he would do later.

Especially so, for example, when perhaps you just want to do a BF1 LAN session with some mates.
As a server side option, it would not (have to) affect single player and local network gaming.

[JTbo]

Should be allowed to have one car from each drivetrain layout with low amount of power (we need more cars) and other cars would be available after some handling tests where driver have to proof that he knows how to drive and keep car under control, before going online with those cars, offline should be unrestricted.

This system would encourage people to learn to drive before going to servers.

[Woz]

Last time I run through ALL the LFS tests it took one very short sitting to complete. I didnt have to re-take a single test (Even the AI overtake tests)

Most of the tests are can you drive off, stop the car and the final AI overtake, well, if you can't even pass the learner AI clean within one lap your driving is not up to spec.

Yes, the AI can be a bit ram happy but they are actually aware of you now. For me it appears it only when you are well off the pace they ram from behind. They still sideswipe though. Once that is fixed there really is no reason not to IMHO.

In the end it will be the loss of an hour of "online" time to pass the tests. For the rest, it has to be said that if you can't even pass the slow AI within a lap you will probably be a nightmare online.

As others have said though, this is probably best as a server side option TBH. Like FCV.

[samjh]

I think you should be able to access any car in single-player or hotlap mode. But a player should be able to pass a simple qualification test to use cars in multiplayer racing mode.

The test: in hotlap or single player mode, the player must be able to achieve a minimum legal lap time with a car (ie. better than "Newbie" AI) before being able to use that car in a multiplayer race.

[Chrisuu01]

I voted yes for single player i think its good tgo learn the basics about how the cars drive and then learn further

[The Moose]

A big fat -1,000,000

Unlocking cars? That a feature for stupid arcade games, not simulations.

Thankfully Scawen makes LFS more sim like with every patch, so unlocking cars is something i don't think we will ever see.

As for server side options, that's a whole different thing. Servers can implement any system they like, i don't have a problem with that.

[Menthol]

Voted yes. I think this would be good idea.:scratchch


Voted yes, 'tho I dislike "Try to win AI without causing a collision" training, because it is more like "Try to win AI, but watch out". Instead, those tests should be like "controlling oversteer", "obeying flags", "coming out from a pit" or "proper braking".

And I would like to have some theory-lessons (text or record of how to do it etc) before actual test.


Yes, sound good. Somethin similar to Richard Burns rally would be nice. Not so long test's maybe..


Just as you can't go racing in real life without proving yourself competant, LFS should have some sort of idiot barrier for those servers who choose to adopt it.


That's true. You cant just go to track and start racing with 260Kmh. :shy: It would be good if servers can decide if they want to use it or not.

[Tweaker]

It seems some here are basing any ideas/opinions of this 'unlocking' on how the current Training lessons are.

If such a testing mode of gameplay was implemented in LFS, I am sure the training would be way more concise and more fun to do. I doubt very much that it would take WEEKS for someone to pass all tests... or let alone tests for cars they really want to drive. Though, I am sure there are lots of people out there that simply cannot drive worth a damn... and the testing is something they'd have to do to safely practice OFFLINE and then be well prepared to come online.

If the testing was implemented, I am sure anyone could pass at an Amateur level, and have the car unlocked. But there could still be the 'quick' and 'pro' goals other people wish to achieve.

I bet you that it would really only take about 5-10 minutes per car for an already experienced LFS player. That said, what are you so scared about? What makes it any different that you have to go do a test to drive a car? Sure... if you go and download the game the first time say... S2 Final is released, you'd have to go test, but so what, that's a new aspect of the game. And I've always said this time and time again... I'd do anything to have some new features (especially in gameplay) for LFS. And the training/testing aspect could be SO GOOD if Scawen gave it some time -- both aesthetically and visually.

Without such an unlocking system, LFS would yet again become barred of features, and the training lessons would just be for the people that 'think' they will benefit from driving in un-challenging situations.... or better yet, people that are bored and want to do nothing better than to earn 'nothing' for trying the lessons, if that makes any sense.

[XCNuse]

I agree with Bob's idea of the 'racer worthy' licensed servers vs the open servers to seperate the good from the bad.

[greg_slideways]

I say no becuase i dont try the little tests, I would want a refund if this goes on i hate a game that forces you to unlock cars too arcady I would deff be mad as hell! sorry didnt read any posts just saying how i feel to first post!

[Gekkibi]

I say no becuase i dont try the little tests, I would want a refund if this goes on i hate a game that forces you to unlock cars too arcady I would deff be mad as hell! sorry didnt read any posts just saying how i feel to first post!

It seems that you haven't red EULA (Hint: 1.4)

That is in eula because it is impossible to please everyone if you make changes. For example, XRT out from the demo and Formula BMW put there instead. I liked that idea that there would be one one-seater in demo, but oh'la'la nearly everyone else angst about it.

[Dalibor79]

If the test would be like driving school, let say just 3-4 tests for more powerful cars like: start, braking, slalom and overtake, I mean, that would take you not more than few minutes...and of course that should be added to your licence (to do it just once)
And blind AI is good because it makes you actually to care about car ur going to overtake, and THAT attitude neccesary for fair racing.
Someone said that if u cant pass learner for 1 lap, then online u would be moving chicane. I beat pro level like nothing, and still people online drive 3-4 secs faster laps, so........

[IlGuercio]

Big NO.
Its pointless.If anyone feels the need to have a license (apart from the one in real life) CTRA would be really happy to host you i think.
I think that if you build your reputation and skills on a track with many other racers is still more fun.Im still finding quite hard to learn a decent number of tracks on FOX because i dont have much time (i can race mostly on weekends due to university) and i really want to enter a league.