IGTC 2008 Season Rules

[DeadWolfBones]

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/4289/igtccropzw7.png

Hello racers!

Attached are the IGTC 2008 season rules.

I have to warn you, this is a large document (12 pages). Based on our experience in editing (and editing and editing and editing) the rules last year, we have attempted to cover as many possibilities as possible with this year's rule set. Our philosophy is that it's better to have a rule ready to go than to have to invent one on the fly. :)

As ever, I'm sure that there must be some small errors somewhere in the document. I mean here errors of consistency, spelling, numbering, etc. If you find any of these, please let me (DWB) know. (Note: I've used American English for these rules, so don't bother correcting my spelling of "behavior." I'm looking at you, Appie.)

There are some major changes from last year, most notably to the points system, the qualifying period, and the objections system. Please be sure to read the entire document, and team managers, please encourage your drivers to do so as well. It will save us all some headaches.

You can also find the rules on the IGTC site (http://www.lfsigtc.net/rules/rules.html).

UPDATED Jul. 24, 2008

Thanks, and enjoy!

[banshee56]

w00t! I have a permanent place (well, at least for 2008) in the rules!

2) Driver names should be formatted in the following manner:

XX .

for example

01 L.Baker

Where “XX” is the team's car number. Car number must be in white. Team colors may be used in the rest of the name, if so desired.




Good work IGTC admins!

[DeadWolfBones]

Ah, and you highlighted one of the errors in our first draft of the web version, too. :P

[BigTime]

Nice touch on the qualifying system, thanks for the rules!

[srdsprinter]

Sweet. 43 days?

[dawesdust_12]

Question about Penaltys being served during SC periods:

If a car has entered (or is past a point of no return) the pitlane for a SG penalty, and once the car has entered pit lane, a SC comes out, can that penalty still be served, or does it breach the rules?

Also, slight suggestion, maybe on the website, make the Rule bits at the top links to anchors at the beginning of each header of rules?

[DeadWolfBones]

Question about Penaltys being served during SC periods:

If a car has entered (or is past a point of no return) the pitlane for a SG penalty, and once the car has entered pit lane, a SC comes out, can that penalty still be served, or does it breach the rules?

In that situation the car would continue through pit lane and re-assume the position it occupied at the time the SC period started, since the field is frozen when the SC period starts. It may serve its penalty at the end of the first flying lap after the green. I'll add this to the rules, thanks Dustin.

[dawesdust_12]

In that situation the car would continue through pit lane and re-assume the position it occupied at the time the SC period started, since the field is frozen when the SC period starts. It may serve its penalty at the end of the first flying lap after the green. I'll add this to the rules, thanks Dustin.

In the case of a DT penalty, what would happen, becuase if it's already entered (or in the entry to pitlane in the case of BL), there's no way to avoid serving the DT, would the penalty be re-assessed, or would it be a valid serving of the penalty because his intentions were already made clear before the SC phase.

[BenjiMC]

...Also, slight suggestion, maybe on the website, make the Rule bits at the top links to anchors at the beginning of each header of rules?

I would do that if i knew how to code it. :shrug: Also since i can't get at the source code with Freewebs i dont think i would be able to anyway.

In the case of a DT penalty, what would happen, becuase if it's already entered (or in the entry to pitlane in the case of BL), there's no way to avoid serving the DT, would the penalty be re-assessed, or would it be a valid serving of the penalty because his intentions were already made clear before the SC phase.

Theres 2 situations that could happen for this which makes it difficult to judge.

1) You serve the penalty, no time is lost.

2) You serve the penalty but you are fighting for position. you loose 1 or more positions.

In both cases however you would loose no actual time and it is possible for a driver to bend the rules to his own advantage. Obviously a driver should never gain an advantage from any penalty situation. So on that basis i would say that the penalty should be re-assessed.

[dawesdust_12]

That's the thing, the way I see it, is that the driver has already committed to serving the penalty, it's outside of his control if something happens on the track as he's passing though, or has already made his entry to the pitlane.

[BenjiMC]

Thats true, but because there is a possibility to gain an advantage from it I believe the penalty should be re-assessed. It can't be one rule for some and another rule for others. You dont loose much time even if you do loose a position anyway.

[DeadWolfBones]

Yeah, the point of the penalty is for it to be served under green flag situations. The yellow flag/SC makes it possible to erase any punishment from the act of serving the DT, hence it cannot count.

[dawesdust_12]

I dunno, I have issues comprehending how it makes sense logically, if a driver's already entered pitlane (Especially for a Drive Through), how a SC phase starting has him gain an advantage. If anything it disadvantages him by re-applying a penalty that he already began to serve by entering the pitlane. It just doesn't make sense to penalize someone further, when they began to serve their penalty, but due to external forces, forced to be re-penalized, losing more time and position. I'm sorry guys, but it's just illogical.

A way to make it logical, is that on SC Phase, all cars who have not already entered pitlane, are unable to serve penalties, but those of which whom are already past the magical white line of entrance, can serve only a DT penalty (no SG penaltys allowed).

A hockey metaphor for the first situation, is if someone got a slashing penalty, would you have them serve the penalty, and then just because the period ended, make them serve the full 2 minutes again?

[BenjiMC]

I understand that it may sound illogical that you can gain an advantage but think about it properly.

If you serve a DT as the SC is called out, once you have exited the pits you will rejoin the queue and loose virtually no time unless you are overtaken. Which is why you can't serve a DT or SG under yellow flag conditions. The fact that you entered the pits under green means nothing because once you exit the pits the whole field has been slowed down for you to catch up the 20-30 seconds or so you would of lost under green.

Making judgment calls mid race and giving BOTD is asking for trouble, especially under an SC situation. Thus it's better to have just one rule that applies to all situations and guarantee's no advantage.

[dawesdust_12]

*sigh*

Whatever...

[DeadWolfBones]

Let me clarify something Benji said there ("unless you are overtaken")...

If a car is in the process of entering pit lane for a DT as the SC period comes out, the car will continue through the pit lane (which in the case of a DT will clear the penalty; SG or 45S not so much) and rejoin the field. Since the field is frozen when the yellow comes out, if that car has been passed while driving through the pits, it will be allowed to re-pass and assume the position it held when the SC period began (will be instructed to do so by the marshals). There will be no double penalty, because the position is maintained.

Then when the green comes back out, the DT is re-applied and can be served.

edit: can you think of any real life series that allow penalties to be served under yellow flag/SC periods? (serious question)

[james12s]

i can thinm of real life ones that do if you are past the pit threshhold, the way i see it best to do it would be that is you are past the threshold you can contine but must join were you exit/at the back,almost every series i know of has this rule

[Gil07]

What if you're 1m from the pit exit line and the SC comes out? :scratchch

[james12s]

in this instance, and may be the best way of running it, you cannot exit the pits until the sc and the whole feild has passed, that is how most do it including f1 and alms

[srdsprinter]

you cannot exit the pits until the sc and the whole feild has passed, that is how most do it including f1 and alms


Surely this is a good compromise? :shrug:

[dawesdust_12]

I'd agree with it, becuase then you're able to serve your penalty to eliminate the issue I have with being penalized twice for the same infraction, and a person doesn't gain any advantage from it.

[DeadWolfBones]

in this instance, and may be the best way of running it, you cannot exit the pits until the sc and the whole feild has passed, that is how most do it including f1 and alms

That turns a DT or SG into a mandatory 1 lap penalty, which is a bit unfair IMO.

I still don't understand where Dustin is getting this idea of a "double penalty."

[banshee56]

There is one argument that make the "cannot exit the pits until the SC and whole field has passed by" bogus:

If you are entering pit lane when the SC comes out (and thus is ahead of you) and cannot leave until the SC and the whole field passes by, then you just went a lap down. In a lot of cases (unless just after a SC or at the start of a race), a DT during green does not mean you lose a lot of positions.

EDIT: Dammit Ben...slow down on those keys!! I had my response typed, and then got a phone call.

[james12s]

well you do a drive through trough the pits then its not valid so youhave to do it again, double penalty, and it doesnt give a 1 lap penalty, if you think about it, if you are at the back you could have a drive through or sg but not loose time cos you could pit while at the back then do the penalty and catch the field back up meaning it hasnt made an afect, therefore giving a similar effect to not allowing people to do penaltie at all,, but your desision, all im saying is that this is the way they do it in real enduro

[james12s]

well banshee is you are in 3rd then do your pit it would put you to the back , not loosing a lap but being at the back of the field

[DeadWolfBones]

well you do a drive through trough the pits then its not valid so youhave to do it again, double penalty

It's not a double penalty if the first drive-through doesn't cost you anything (you get put back where you were before doing it).

and it doesnt give a 1 lap penalty, if you think about it, if you are at the back you could have a drive through or sg but not loose time cos you could pit while at the back then do the penalty and catch the field back up meaning it hasnt made an afect, therefore giving a similar effect to not allowing people to do penaltie at all

I think the problem here was you saying "until the sc...has passed," which would mean a 1 lap penalty. Waiting until the whole field (other cars behind the SC) has passed is acceptable to me.

Or, as Banshee put it to me in an IM... just do the DT/SG and fall to the back of the line once you exit.

[james12s]

yah ok thats a better way of putting it

[dawesdust_12]

Blah, is what I meant, was back of the line. It just is illogical to me for a penalty to be reassessed, if during a DT, you're half through the pitlane.

[DeadWolfBones]

So, is everyone okay with the following revisions?

D3) Drivers issued a DT, SG, or 45S penalty must complete the penalty within three (3) laps, or the given penalty will be upgraded to the next level of severity.

D3.1) A car may serve a DT, SG, or 45S penalty under SC conditions, but must fall to the rear of the field after exiting the pits. If more than one car serves a penalty at the same time under SC conditions, these cars must join the rear of the field in the order in which they exited the pits.

...then shift the current D3.1 and D3.2 down accordingly and get rid of J4.

[james12s]

yep happy with that

[dawesdust_12]

happy with me.

[banshee56]

:thumb: Good wording.

[srdsprinter]

Nice :D

[AstroBoy]

Im happy with that if only i had gotten in sooner i was going to ask.

If your under SC and then when it peels off a person with a DT SG ect go in with it thats within the rules right?

[BenjiMC]

Yeah, although imo it's not good strategy. :D

[srdsprinter]

Any ideas when or how you would open up to allow a second team car to enter the series. Maybe depending on the number of pre-race confirmations 1 week (possibly 2?) in advance or something?

[DeadWolfBones]

Any ideas when or how you would open up to allow a second team car to enter the series. Maybe depending on the number of pre-race confirmations 1 week (possibly 2?) in advance or something?

2 weeks in advance of the first round would be a good bet.

[DeadWolfBones]

Revised rules uploaded to OP.

[BenjiMC]

Website rules are updated now.

[srdsprinter]

MOE has finalized its balancing, any timeline on when IGTC will do the same?

Including FXR would that be about 0 - 30 - 45kg (FXR, XRR, FZR) assuming no intake restrictions?

Thanks!

[DeadWolfBones]

MOE has finalized its balancing, any timeline on when IGTC will do the same?

Including FXR would that be about 0 - 30 - 45kg (FXR, XRR, FZR) assuming no intake restrictions?

Thanks!

I don't think so.

Right now in MoE it's ? - 0 - 15kg (FXR, XRR, FZR).

I'm going to watch how the 24hr plays out, as I've said, and we'll start our own deliberations after that.

[Gil07]

IMO, we shouldn't do extra weights at all... Thinking of it, if this is the way the class is, everyone can settle for a compromise... Slower but easier or faster and harder, the choice is there...

[danowat]

Leave them as there are, personally, I can't see the point of making all cars lap the same times, it's just not that simple.

You have to also take into account tyre wear, fuel useage and ease of driving, there is a bigger picture here that doesn't just focus on laptimes.......

[BenjiMC]

I am also in favour of not adding any ballast. I dont think it's needed and as you said Dan, there are too many variable to consider which could all make the balancing uneven.

[DeadWolfBones]

Spoken like a true FZR driver. :D

[BenjiMC]

:) If it's good enough for the Devs, it's good enough for me :D

[danowat]

If the FZR is so dominant, why doesnt everyone use it?

[Tweaker]

:) If it's good enough for the Devs, it's good enough for me :D
Scawen hasn't balanced the car in Patch Y, only made it worse again.

Scrapping a year's worth of online handicaps and suddenly having slightly different revs & shifting methods doesn't magically make the cars balanced. Scawen, will surely do a run-through again to re-balance. And yet again, if you go with stock patch settings, you get 3 different cars all at entirely different paces.

MoE chose 15kg to be added to the FZR, and even that is not enough in my opinion...

[srdsprinter]

If the FZR is so dominant, why doesnt everyone use it?

Bingo.... :smileypul

[DeadWolfBones]

Driving style, challenge or ease of driving one of the other cars, tire/fuel consumption, etc etc. There are always reasons.

[danowat]

Driving style, challenge or ease of driving one of the other cars, tire/fuel consumption, etc etc. There are always reasons.

Bingo, which is why it's unfair to cripple it

[R.Kolz]

I'm going to watch how the 24hr plays out, as I've said, and we'll start our own deliberations after that.

+1

[niall09]

Benji - Whats the exact url of the rules page?

[DeadWolfBones]

http://www.freewebs.com/lfsgtseries/rules.htm

...don't call me Benji. :razz:

[niall09]

http://www.freewebs.com/lfsgtseries/rules.htm

...don't call me Benji. :razz:

Cheers DWB ;)

[AppiePils]

The rules will also be released as an encyclopedia (in 24 series).

[DeadWolfBones]

Yeah, I'm working on a director's cut.

[Megin]

I read the rules and i have one question:
If our car will be disconected - which driver have to rejoin to race? Anyone or driver who drive in the moment of disconect?

[BenjiMC]

Anyone from that team can join.

[Humbleridderen]

5.1) Teams fielding more than one car may use a different model (FXR, XRR, FZR) for each car. However, teams may not change models mid-season unless otherwise instructed by series admins

If a team has 2 cars, may they use drivers from the other car, i mean, may the drivers go from one car to the other as they please?

It could happen in the same race or from race to race. Or if one of the cars has bad luck and they take their good drivers into the more lucky car

I think it is not realy fair to have two horses this way. It will give the big teams an advantage over the smaller teams

[DeadWolfBones]

5.1) Teams fielding more than one car may use a different model (FXR, XRR, FZR) for each car. However, teams may not change models mid-season unless otherwise instructed by series admins

If a team has 2 cars, may they use drivers from the other car, i mean, may the drivers go from one car to the other as they please?

It could happen in the same race or from race to race. Or if one of the cars has bad luck and they take their good drivers into the more lucky car

I think it is not realy fair to have two horses this way. It will give the big teams an advantage over the smaller teams

I'll discuss this with Benji and we'll get back to you shortly. :)

[DeadWolfBones]

After conferring with Benji, we agree that in a multi-car team the lineup for each car can change for each race (always coming from the overall team roster, of course), but one driver can not drive both cars in the same race.

After rosters have been posted, Team managers may make a request to the admins that a driver be subbed from one team car to the other. In case of emergency, this request may be made during the race itself but, again, the subbed driver may not drive for both cars in the same race.

This was a valid issue to bring up, and we thank you for raising it.

[Humbleridderen]

Wouldn´t this just be a way for the multiple cars team to choose the right car for each combo. If they have one FZR and one FXR for example?

[Bean0]

Wouldn´t this just be a way for the multiple cars team to choose the right car for each combo. If they have one FZR and one FXR for example?

I suspect that each car would be treated as a separate 'team', so for example Concept-A in FZR and Concept-B in XRR. Any points scored in one car would be kept separate from those scored in the other.

There is no points reward for individual drivers, so there is no advantage here.

[Humbleridderen]

I suspect that each car would be treated as a separate 'team', so for example Concept-A in FZR and Concept-B in XRR. Any points scored in one car would be kept separate from those scored in the other.

There is no points reward for individual drivers, so there is no advantage here.

Hm, yeah, but am I winning in team car number 1 or 2 doesn´t matter for me, as long as my team and I win, if you get what I mean. The real team is the drivers, the cars is only skins and numbers.

What I think would be the simple and correct way of handling this, would be, every car, like "team 1", is handled like a separate team and has fixed drivers. The drivers should NOT apear at any other car during the season. It´s over and out, if you have bad luck!

[Gil07]

Still, in the season points the points of both cars don't get added up, so it won't make a difference anyway...

[BenjiMC]

Well, two entries for the actual series aren't looking likely anyway.

But to answer your question. No advantage is gained since both cars will be at the same track anyway. The drivers you choose are up to you. it makes no difference. The teams dont get points, the cars do.

Example

TeamX - FXR
TeamX - FZR

Drivers x,y,z,p,l,m,n,o

Round 1 FXR-X,Y,Z,P Wins and FZR+other drivers second
Round 2 FXR-l,m,n,o Wins and FZR+Other drivers second.

Even though the drivers have switch the point would be

Round1 FXR 50 FZR 40
Round2 FXR 100 FZR 80

[Humbleridderen]

I don´t think you get my point.

For example. A team has 2 cars, A and B.
car A does very good, because of the magnificant drivers. BUT shit happens, and they get a lot of problems in the middle of the season. Two of their drivers get problem to come to the races and it will get hard to finish the season and they have also a lot of disconnects.

Car B has done not so well, but because they didn´t had all the disconnects, they have the same amount of points in the middle of the season.

Then the team decides to use all it´s good drivers they have on car B and they win the season.

This way they have 2 horses, which gives the team better chances.

Small teams have not that option so easily.

[DeadWolfBones]

I don´t think you get my point.

For example. A team has 2 cars, A and B.
car A does very good, because of the magnificant drivers. BUT shit happens, and they get a lot of problems in the middle of the season. Two of their drivers get problem to come to the races and it will get hard to finish the season and they have also a lot of disconnects.

Car B has done not so well, but because they didn´t had all the disconnects, they have the same amount of points in the middle of the season.

Then the team decides to use all it´s good drivers they have on car B and they win the season.

This way they have 2 horses, which gives the team better chances.

Small teams have not that option so easily.

This is true, but Benji and I don't feel that a team should be penalized for being large or having a good support network. This is something teams should be aiming for anyway, and I can think of very few real life leagues that would deny a team the chance to sub in drivers. Furthermore, a single car team has less to worry about (theoretically) than a two-car team... less ground to cover, fewer cars to staff.

In your scenario it's still the team that wins, no matter which car. In that same scenario the same team could have run one car and had the same result.

[Humbleridderen]

This is true, but Benji and I don't feel that a team should be penalized for being large or having a good support network. This is something teams should be aiming for anyway, and I can think of very few real life leagues that would deny a team the chance to sub in drivers. Furthermore, a single car team has less to worry about (theoretically) than a two-car team... less ground to cover, fewer cars to staff.

In your scenario it's still the team that wins, no matter which car. In that same scenario the same team could have run one car and had the same result.

Thx for a honest response!

[rcpilot]

Hm, yeah, but am I winning in team car number 1 or 2 doesn´t matter for me, as long as my team and I win, if you get what I mean. The real team is the drivers, the cars is only skins and numbers.

What I think would be the simple and correct way of handling this, would be, every car, like "team 1", is handled like a separate team and has fixed drivers. The drivers should NOT apear at any other car during the season. It´s over and out, if you have bad luck!
It's hard to support two cars in endurance events. Sure these teams are signing up large rosters, but forcing them to separate their drivers into two pools opens a whole other can of worms. Namely, what happens if you don't have enough available drivers from pool 1 but you have a surplus of drivers in pool 2?

[Humbleridderen]

It's hard to support two cars in endurance events. Sure these teams are signing up large rosters, but forcing them to separate their drivers into two pools opens a whole other can of worms. Namely, what happens if you don't have enough available drivers from pool 1 but you have a surplus of drivers in pool 2?

Then it will just show, that the team has made a wrong choice, when they made the pools and pool 1 car has to go out!

Just a team problem they have to deal with!

I could also say, what happens with a small team with 1 car, when they don´t have enough drivers?

But nevertheless, I respect the organisers decision :)

[DeadWolfBones]

OP updated to add rules G4 and J4 and clarify rules J2.4 and J2.6.

Rules on site will be updated as soon as Benji sees this.

[DeadWolfBones]

Following round 1, an update will be made to the rules as follows (edit to rule A1 in bold):

A1) Each team's manager must post in each event’s pre-race confirmation thread (found in the 2008 Season forum) to state whether the given team is or is not attending said event. In the same post, each manager must also post the team race roster as described in rule B1.2. This confirmation thread will be posted no fewer than 5 days prior to the event. Managers must have confirmed their team's entry within 48 hours of the event start time.

B6) A team that misses two consecutive races or three races total in the course of the season without officially withdrawing will be demoted to the bottom of the waiting list. In such an event, the team at the top of the waiting list will be added to the active teams list. If the field is not full, and the waiting list is empty that team will remain on the active teams list.

B6.1) If a team states that it cannot start a given event, or if a team fails to confirm its entry by the deadline stated in rule A1, approved teams on the waiting list will be given the opportunity to race, in the order they appear on the list. If the top team on the waiting list cannot race, the next team will be offered the spot, etc etc.


Note: Despite these rules not going into effect until after Round 1, the tally of missed races will start with round 1.

[BenjiMC]

New rules are updated on the website (http://www.lfsigtc.net/rules/rules.html). Rules doc updated in OP. [DWB's note: Also uploaded version with tracked changes so you can see exactly what's been changed. A lot of it is minor formatting stuff, but some of it is substantive.]

We ask that all drivers re-read the entire rulebook as changes have been made throughout.

[srdsprinter]

New rules are updated on the website (http://www.lfsigtc.net/rules/rules.html). Rules doc updated in OP. [DWB's note: Also uploaded version with tracked changes so you can see exactly what's been changed. A lot of it is minor formatting stuff, but some of it is substantive.]

We ask that all drivers re-read the entire rulebook as changes have been made throughout.
It really would be extremely beneficial to actually list the rule changes in this forum in addition to the very comprehensive rules document.

Just a thought, as the above post is rather vague and even the tracked changes version is quite long.

[DeadWolfBones]

Well, there are changes to just about every rule, but I can go through and draw up a list of the more important ones.

Expect it shortly.

edit: but still, please re-read the whole thing. never hurts.

[Gil07]

New rules are updated on the website (http://www.lfsigtc.net/rules/rules.html). Rules doc updated in OP. [DWB's note: Also uploaded version with tracked changes so you can see exactly what's been changed. A lot of it is minor formatting stuff, but some of it is substantive.]

We ask that all drivers re-read the entire rulebook as changes have been made throughout.

There's nothing highlighted in the tracked changes file...

[BenjiMC]

I must of took it off. I have put the new one on now. It should show.

[Gil07]

Yep, it's there now :)

[DeadWolfBones]

As requested, significant changes in the rules in this iteration:


A1) Changed the confirmation deadline to 48 hours prior to race time (aka 19:00UTC on Thursday). Accordingly, changed the time of the confirmation thread being posted to no later than 7 days (from 5) prior to the event.
Removed privateer team info from section B.
Added rules B5 and B5.1.
C1) Added "Skins must also use the provided IGTC sunstrip." This was previously missing and seemed somewhat ambiguous.
Removed the old rule C3.1 regarding cars serving penalties under SC periods, as the procedure described in it was moved to K3.2.
E1) Changed the timeframe for submitting post-race protests from 12 hours to 48 hours.
G2) Redesigned start procedure, in which the SC speeds away from the field in the final sector leading to the green flag. The leader/pole car gradually accelerates and takes the green flag at his chosen pace, but should not brake excessively once acceleration has begun.
Removed blue flag-related information from section H.
H7.1) Changed to require podium finishers to return to the start/finish line for a podium shot at the end of the race. All other drivers proceed to pit lane and park in a pit stall.
Section I is entirely new. Blue flag rules.
Subsequent sections have been bumped up a letter as a result.
J2) Added DT for failure to leave the server after a driver change.
K1) Added "incident involving a majority of teams" to criteria for a SC deployment.
K1.3) Added C1 penalty for spectating before instructed to do so following a flip.
K3.1) Under a SC period, pit exit is closed once the SC passes it and stays closed until the last on-track car passes.

[DeadWolfBones]

To clarify the final change there, the intent is that the pit exit closes when the SC passes it on the track. In other words, the SC leaving the pits to collect the field does not equal "passing the pit exit."


Also, one note I forgot to mention:

During round 1, there was at least one incident in which a car was severely damaged (to the point of impacting the stability of the car) and continued to race.

In order to protect the safety of other cars on track, in the future the marshals may direct cars with this sort of damage to pit and repair. In such a case, the standard "must serve in 3 laps" rule for penalties applies. Affected drivers will be notified by private RCM so as not to disturb the other drivers.

[DeadWolfBones]

Several more small rules changes and clarifications. Ones that are new or significantly edited:

B5.2) A team failing to post its confirmed race roster by the posted deadline will have its qualifying time disallowed and start from the rear of the field. If more than one team misses the deadline, these teams will be gridded in order of points standings.
H7) Cars that are significantly damaged or damaged in such a way that they lack control and pose a threat to other cars on-track may be called to the pits for repairs by the marshals. In such cases, drivers will have 3 laps to comply with the order, after which they will be DQ'd.
K3.1) Once the SC has exited the pits, collected the field, and passed the pit exit on-track, the pit exit is closed. The pit exit re-opens once the last on-track car in the SC queue has passed. Pitting drivers must form a queue at pit exit and wait until the exit status indicator at the bottom middle of the screen changes to “OPEN.” They may then exit the pits and join the SC queue. Exiting the pit lane while the indicator reads "CLOSED" will result in a DT penalty. As prescribed by rule K2, you may not pass another car after exiting the pits. If successfully protested post-race, this infraction will receive a C1 penalty.Rules on website and .doc files in the OP have been updated.

[DeadWolfBones]

Rule H7 above has been edited to remove the bit about RCMs. Marshals will use normal chat messages to call damaged cars into the pits. This is so that having done so will appear in the server log, and so that other drivers can be informed of a potential hazard.

Thanks.

[UncleBenny]

Stealing this from another thread...

Wind settings for this round announced.

Just wondering, how strong does the real world wind have to be for there to be wind in the race?

[BenjiMC]

10+ mph

[dawesdust_12]

Guys, will we have a updated cheatsheet generated?

[DeadWolfBones]

Guys, will we have a updated cheatsheet generated?

Yes.

[DeadWolfBones]

Here you go.

[Scott_Michaels]

Don't you think a drive-through is a little soft for someone exiting the pits under red? I mean you could quite easily break that rule and gain a lap out of it. Surely the penalty should be worth at least a lap?

[Gil07]

You won't gain a lap from exiting the pits while closed... It's not closed for that long each time.

[Scott_Michaels]

i mean if someone arrives at the pit exit just after the safety car has passed it, they could exit the pits to overtake the safety car and gain a lap. But I guess that might be classed as a different penalty?

[Gil07]

That would be completely cheating :D

[DeadWolfBones]

We would catch that, and if it went unpunished during the race itself they'd certainly be DQ'd afterwards.

[Scott_Michaels]

ok, so the penalty is just for people trying to merge back into the middle of the pack then... check :)

[DeadWolfBones]

Rules updated for Round 3: Fern Bay Gold

All pre-race infractions will now result in rear-of-grid penalties rather than DTs. To wit:

C1.1) Uncorrected failure to use the sunstrip and/or number plates appropriately during qualifying will result in a rear-of-grid penalty as described in rule F5. Incorrect skin configuration during a race will result in a DT penalty.

F1.4) If caught by the admin team, incidents resulting from drivers disregarding rules F1-1.3 will result in the deletion of those teams’ qualifying times. These teams will then start from the rear of the grid.

F5) Teams who commit rules infractions during qualifying will be placed at the rear of the grid in the following order:

Teams who chatted during qualifying (in chronological order)
Teams who used incorrect skins in qualifying (in order of qualifying time)
Teams who failed to confirm entry on-time (in order of confirmation)
Teams who violated rules F1-1.3 (in chronological order)
Teams who qualified with incorrect ballast (in chronological order)The SC/Panic Button will be introduced for this round. To wit:

P3) Drivers involved in an incident affecting a large portion of the field are encouraged to use the SC Alert bind ($SC) to alert the marshals. This bind should also be used to alert marshals to a car out of fuel, stuck in the sand, or flipped on-track. Misuse of this bind may be penalized at admin discretion, and so should be used only when necessary. We recommend that you bind this command to a wheel button or an ALT/CTRL-F button.

Teams causing major lag will now be given a limited period in order to fix their problem, after which the team will no longer be scored. This is done for the safety of the other teams. To wit:

Q3) In situations of extreme lag, marshals will ask a lagging driver and/or his team to fix the problem. From the time of notification, the team has three laps to fix the situation or make a driver change. After the three laps have expired, if the problem is not fixed the car will no longer be scored. If the lag persists, the driver will be kicked for the safety of the other teams.

Thanks!

[DeadWolfBones]

Hello drivers,

The rules have been revised somewhat substantially in advance of Round 5, in part to respond to issues raised during and after Round 4, and in part to clarify sections that were previously misleading or outdated.

A summary of major changes is as follows:



Event time has been changed to reflect the new 18:00 UTC start time.
Post-race penalty scale has been reduced to 2/5/10 points.
Time to complete a penalty has been changed from 3 laps to 10 minutes. This is easier for marshals to keep track of, and gives teams a little more time to work with.
Added rule D5: penalties for infractions committed by drivers who have joined the server but not taken over the car will not be given to active drivers, but will be given to the incoming driver once he has taken over.
Section E has been restructured to more accurately describe the objections/protests system in use this season.
Section G has been repurposed to cover both race starts and restarts.
Rules G2.1-2.3 have been rewritten. Starting in round 5, passing before the S/F line is forbidden, except in situations where a car has spun or is drastically off the pace.
Furthermore, drivers who are judged to have lagged back and subsequently gained a significant speed advantage on a start or restart may be punished with a DT even if they do not complete a pass before the S/F line.
Drivers who spin during a SC lap must blend into the SC queue where they recover and reattain SC speed. Drivers in the queue should accommodate these drivers.
For each round, a minimum number of laps per SC period will be announced along with wind conditions and other vital info, in the drivers' meeting thread. This number of laps will be scaled to the length of the track with the goal being to strike a balance between tire cooling and allowing drivers time to pit if necessary.


We ask that all drivers and teams closely examine the newly-posted rules. They have been posted in the OP (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=670983#post670983) normal and tracked changes format, so that you may directly view the changes that have been made.

As always, suggestions and comments are welcome. However, if you are unclear on a rule after reading the above summary, please read the actual rule in question before posting your comments. And as always, let's keep the discussion civil.

Thanks, and see you on the 28th!

-IGTC Admin Team

[Scott_Michaels]

Could you explain rule D5 please? Maybe its just me but I'm finding it difficult to understand what you are refering to.

Also, with regards to the "lagging back" rule, could you perhaps do something about drivers who jump the green flag? I saw this a lot at Aston, people tried to anticipate the restart and accelerated long before the green flag, then found they had to hit the brakes as the whole field concertinaed up. This caused a few completely unnecessary wrecks, but I'm also worried that people like myself who retained the pace speed until the green flag might be judged to have been "lagging back".

[Storm_Cloud]

I also do not understand D5.

Does this mean I can smash a rival off the track then hand over to my team mate, who will not be punished?

Does this mean I can speed into the pits at 150mph, hand over to my team mate and you will then wipe off the SG?

[Gil07]

Dave, you will not get the penalty, but the next driver to take over will ;)

Edit: And it's about infractions by the driver that will take over (ie chat), like what happened to Alias last round... Drive joined the server and chatted, so they couldn't pit because they had a DT, then ran out of fuel

[Storm_Cloud]

Oh I see - incoming to the server - I thought incoming to the pits!

[srdsprinter]

Could the admins explain the reasoning for the changes to the G2 Starts/Restarts Passing rules?

Allowing the cars to pass upon seeing green (before the S/F):
- Gives cars the opportunity to avoid cars ahead and accordion effect (w.out concerns about their obvious pace)
- Lessens the need for tightly bunched starts (2-car gap)

Removing the ability to race until S/F:
- Will punish the teams mid-pack and further as they have to parade through several turns in places
- Nulify the FZR's NA engine advantage

---------------------------------------------

Truth be told, the restart advantage is one of the main points why our team campaigns the FZR. If the positives of the new rule outweigh the negatives provided, I would hope that the admins would consider lifting the FZR 15kg weight pentalty, or allow teams the opportunity to re-evaluate their car choices.

Thanks,
Stu
S3Racing

[bdshan]

Rules G2.1-2.3 have been rewritten. Starting in round 5, passing before the S/F line is forbidden, except in situations where a car has spun or is drastically off the pace.



Can I ask the rational behind this change? So on a track like Westhill, upon a restart when the leader crosses the S/F line I will still be either in or approaching the final turn, based on my previous experience and knowing where I will most likely be positioned. Your saying that I have to wait until I get to the S/F line to pass and/or build to race speed, even if I get the drop on the driver in front of me when the light goes green? I think you're are going to see more stupid crashes on restarts from drivers who don't want to violate the rule and subsequently cause an accordion. Additionally, this puts the front of the pack further out ahead.

Am I way off base here? A restarts seems pretty easy to me. The leader crosses the S/F line, the lights go green and everyone starts racing, regardless of there position on the track.

[banshee56]

Here's a question related to the new rule about assigning penalties to incoming drivers...if a driver gets a pit lane speeding penalty upon entrance to the pit lane and during the pit stop, another driver takes over, does the pit lane speed DT transfer to the new driver?

[Gil07]

Can I ask the rational behind this change? So on a track like Westhill, upon a restart when the leader crosses the S/F line I will still be either in or approaching the final turn, based on my previous experience and knowing where I will most likely be positioned. Your saying that I have to wait until I get to the S/F line to pass and/or build to race speed, even if I get the drop on the driver in front of me when the light goes green? I think you're are going to see more stupid crashes on restarts from drivers who don't want to violate the rule and subsequently cause an accordion. Additionally, this puts the front of the pack further out ahead.

Am I way off base here? A restarts seems pretty easy to me. The leader crosses the S/F line, the lights go green and everyone starts racing, regardless of there position on the track.

And then you get cases like last round were we were penalized for doing exactly that ;)

[DeadWolfBones]

The changes to G2-2.3 are in response to the restart issue with the Pernix/Sonicrealms/TDRT cars last round. In that instance, we saw a team lag back (intentionally or not, it's hard to say) and then accelerate to catch the cars ahead. The end result was that at the moment of green, this car and the cars behind it had a 50+mph speed advantage on the cars ahead. While Pernix and TDRT got caught up in a crash (at least in part due to this speed advantage), Sonicrealms got through and went from 6th to (briefly) 1st by the time the field got to the footbridge on the Aston straight. This was clearly unacceptable to us.

We had considered not implementing the no-pass-before-green rule and relying on the no-lagging-back-and-jumping-the-green rule, but in general our thinking was that two safety measures were better than one. However, if you all think that the no-lag/no-jump rule is enough to cover the situation we'll be glad to try it for this round at least.

[DeadWolfBones]

Here's a question related to the new rule about assigning penalties to incoming drivers...if a driver gets a pit lane speeding penalty upon entrance to the pit lane and during the pit stop, another driver takes over, does the pit lane speed DT transfer to the new driver?

I believe it does, but I'd have to test to make sure.

A speeding DT received on pit entry doesn't have to be served before the pitstop, correct?

[srdsprinter]

Cool. Leaving a gap/lag is unnacceptable as it not only disadvantages the teams ahead, it punishes the teams behind in line, and it is also incredibly dangerous in leading to the accordion crashes.

+1 for No Lagging / Gapping Rule. It should cover the problem if everyone follows this. Start handing out DT's for not maintaining steady speed and steady gap.

+1 for "Green Means Go" and race when the message flies.

We had considered not implementing the no-pass-before-green rule and relying on the no-lagging-back-and-jumping-the-green rule, but in general our thinking was that two safety measures were better than one. However, if you all think that the no-lag/no-jump rule is enough to cover the situation we'll be glad to try it for this round at least.

[banshee56]

I believe it does, but I'd have to test to make sure.

A speeding DT received on pit entry doesn't have to be served before the pitstop, correct?

No, if you get a DT on pit entry, you can still complete your pit, because that was the purpose of entering the pit. You have to complete the drive through on a subsequent entry to pit lane, and then it won't let you do anything else.

I say it that way because if you complete the pit after getting a DT, and then come back in, you get the message "{driver} entered pit lane to serve drive through penalty", or something like that. And if you complete a pit stop and enter the pit lane after having left post-stop, you get the message "{driver} entered pit lane for no purpose".

[UncleBenny]

We had considered not implementing the no-pass-before-green rule and relying on the no-lagging-back-and-jumping-the-green rule, but in general our thinking was that two safety measures were better than one. However, if you all think that the no-lag/no-jump rule is enough to cover the situation we'll be glad to try it for this round at least.

I think only using the no-lag/no-jump rule is the way to go. If you implement no passing before the green too there are going to be a ton of crashes in the back of the pack due to cars bunching up because they see the green but can't go anywhere until they cross the start finish line.

[PMD9409]

+1

No lag/jump rule is good, but don't implement no passing before green.

[AppiePils]

No, if you get a DT on pit entry, you can still complete your pit, because that was the purpose of entering the pit. You have to complete the drive through on a subsequent entry to pit lane, and then it won't let you do anything else.


Do note that this is only applicable if you're already IN the pitlane (LFS provides you with a message such as 'Entered pitlane for {DT/SG/Pitstop}. Admins just have to ensure that they won't be giving out a penalty before the pit entrance.

[banshee56]

Well, you won't get the penalty until you are already in pit lane...but yeah, admins will need to make sure penalties aren't given out either while in pit lane, or while a penalty is already being displayed because of how penalties don't stack.

[r4ptor]

We had considered not implementing the no-pass-before-green rule and relying on the no-lagging-back-and-jumping-the-green rule, but in general our thinking was that two safety measures were better than one. However, if you all think that the no-lag/no-jump rule is enough to cover the situation we'll be glad to try it for this round at least.


I believe they would have been more than enough - we had the no passing rule early on in first season, that later got changed because we were having loads of incidents and confusions. The starts have been fine since then, but the recent start related issue doesn't mean it's the start procedure that needs to be looked at. Drivers shouldn't be lagging behind of jump starting no matter what - which btw - drivers would still be able/"allowed" to do.

[DeadWolfBones]

I should clarify the 10 minute rule for penalties. That's 10 minutes to complete the penalty, not 10 minutes to enter pit lane.

:thumbsup:

[DeadWolfBones]

Rules updated, again.

2) When the SC enters the final sector, it will quickly accelerate away from the field and enter the pit lane. At this point the lead car should begin to gradually accelerate. The lead car should not brake (except in the case of natural braking points) once it has begun to accelerate. Once the lead car has entered the designated green flag zone, the green flag may be displayed.

2.1) Once the green flag has been displayed, drivers are free to overtake.

2.2) Drivers judged to have jumped the start, to have lagged back and subsequently gained a significant speed advantage on a restart, or to have begun an overtaking maneuver before the green flag is shown will be punished with a DT penalty, or a C1 penalty if protested post-race.

[Itar (CZ)]

That looks very good on the list. :) See, if it'll works on track.

[Gil07]

Hmm, and what will happen if a car in front lags back, and therefore all the cars behind that one gain an advantage? It's still a grey area now...

[Scott_Michaels]

Obviously only the car intentionally lagging will get a penalty. Thats just hair splitting.

[Gil07]

No it's not just hair splitting, I just don't want another penalty for a restart ;)

[srdsprinter]

Rules updated, again.

Looks good! Now just to make everyone read and understands the rules. IIRC, the last 2 races have had severly botched starts, obviously indicating a lack in rule understanding.

Any thoughts on adding a provision to penalize these behaviors?

- Could we reconsider the pentalty for the blue flag in Qualifying? After seeing the pentalty for Kovalininianainin in the GP this past weekend. Their rule is a 5-spot penalty for impeding someone's progress on a hot lap. This seems to be a fair pentalty for the IGTC in that:
1) GP's are much shorter and therefore starting spots are that much more important
2) Our Qualifying is 30 minutes, whereas in F1 the session is either 20, 15 or 10 minutes long. Obviously much more time to get more possible attempts.

Just my $.02

[DeadWolfBones]

No it's not just hair splitting, I just don't want another penalty for a restart ;)

Scott has it right. In this situation, we'd penalize the "lead" car in the lagging-back train, the one responsible for it.

I realize that this wouldn't have covered your car's maneuver last race, since you were second in line in that particular train. All I can say is that I hope teams will drive fairly and not use an advantage gotten via the "lead" car's mistake to grab ill-gotten spots. This is why we had the no-pass-before-green clause in there initially, but as people rightly pointed out, it causes (potentially) more trouble than it's worth as an anti-trouble tool.

We have to rely on you, the drivers, to make wise decisions in this particular case.

[Gil07]

Thanks for clarifying, Ben :)

[srdsprinter]

You know what could be very useful:

"Pace Car Exits" as a message to the drivers.

When you are back in the pack you have little to No visual idea when this is happening, and thus whenever the car ahead accelerates you have to act as if the pack is preparing to go green, smoothly accelerating (the pitfall of the lead car controlling the pack). Which of course leads to the Nasty accordion crashes.

[DeadWolfBones]

I'll look into that idea, thanks.

Happy 2000th post. :tilt:

[DeadWolfBones]

Several rules have been changed in advance of Round 6, but the only major change is the rule regarding beaching--cars who are beached will no longer incur an additional penalty after being rescued.

See the tracked changes version of the rules in the OP for additional adjustments.

Thanks. :thumbsup: