360 controller and can't hold throttle and brake at same time [Archive]

N1Te

5th January 2008, 22:11

I am using my 360 controller for LFS, I know that somewhere out there there should be something to fix this, but LFS thinks that my 2 triggers are 1 big axis, so i can only accelerate or brake, and not both. So I can't do burnouts, complicated dynamic drifting, or just basic car functions in general.

If you know any way to fix this I thank you. :D

XCNuse

5th January 2008, 22:16

I here at college have a wireless 360 controller that I was just messing around with on LFS (have before but.. wanted to give it another go in Y), but.. I can't imagine it's possible because windows treats the R trigger as Z + and the L trigger as Z -

Unless there is a program to split it :shrug:
Don't think it's possible.

N1Te

6th January 2008, 02:11

Well I did hear something about Xinput at one point, but that won't install on vista yet.

I tried getting the DX SDK but that did nothing either. But if you or anyone knows a way around this that would be awesome, thanks.

XCNuse

6th January 2008, 02:31

Do you know if vibration is supported by any game for the 360 controller (on PC of course)?

DeKo

6th January 2008, 02:39

N1Te

6th January 2008, 03:15

If you use XBCD drivers for the controller (google it) you can assign a different axis to both the rear triggers.

and yeah xcnuse, both fifa and madden give me vibration with my x360 controller on PC.
I tried to get that XBCD stuff, and i didn't understand it, and when i installed it, it didn't seem to work.

kaulgt.

6th January 2008, 03:31

Did you install it with the other drivers installed?

N1Te

6th January 2008, 03:42

Did you install it with the other drivers installed?
I think i probably did, but it said that i had to uninstall the other ones first in a box with an ok on it, and i thought when i pressed ok that it uninstalled the other ones.

How about you, what did you do.

greg_slideways

6th January 2008, 03:48

Well i had the same isue for my wheel... GO into control panel and game contolers make sure it is on seperate axis i lfs! thats how i got it to work!

N1Te

6th January 2008, 04:23

Well i had the same isue for my wheel... GO into control panel and game contolers make sure it is on seperate axis i lfs! thats how i got it to work!

How would i go about doing that?

I tried putting separate axis' in LFS but then it sticks the throttle on half permanently until i say for it not to be separate. The only ways I know of doing this are getting Xinput for XP, or XBCD which i don't understand how to install or use.

kaulgt.

6th January 2008, 05:22

I use an original Xbox wheel, with XBCD. All I had to do with XBCD was click on buttons next to where it says 'RT' and 'LT' and set them to axis, then select which axis I want. From the readme I am guessing the UI is the same as the original because it uses the old version setup utility with new drivers. Sorry I can't supply screenshots at the moment because I am on my laptop without the drivers or contoller.

XCNuse

6th January 2008, 14:25

Well i had the same isue for my wheel... GO into control panel and game contolers make sure it is on seperate axis i lfs! thats how i got it to work!
There is no option like that for a controller, like I said, windows recognizes both as a single axis

CSU1

6th January 2008, 14:30

...on a footnote: gamepads suck with LFS:shrug: pick up a cheap wheel, to be honest a wheel for ~€30 will give you a MUCH better experience with this sim than a crappy gamepad.

greg_slideways

6th January 2008, 14:30

O well thats the only thing i could thinbk of so im no help! Sorry Hope you get it working! :thumb:

hardcoreobscure

7th January 2008, 10:19

I use a wireless 360 controller for games under XP.

Some games auto accept the input from the controller just as if you were running a xbox 360. e.g. Bioshock, COD4, Lost Planet (with rumble support)

As for the seperate axis, I have tried to get this to work, but to no avail. The XBCD drivers do not work (for now at least) with the wireless 360 controllers, (although a new version has been promised).

I have not used Xinput but sounds like it could work might give it a try. :thumb: Ill let you know how I get on.

*Edit* I just tried to install Xinput, but it does not install and gives the incredibly useful error message... "Installation did not complete"

pbrown

8th January 2008, 10:20

Use xbcd and you can assign each trigger to a seperate axis. Rumble support works although lfs uses the force feedback inputs. Works perfectly on my computer with xp and xbox 360 controller. Only problem is the sticks are are still a bit sensitive with steering comp on 0.95. You get used to it though. I agree a wheel would be better due to more precise movement.

There is a good section somewhere in this forum, just search for it, that will help for xbox 360 controllers but here is the link for what works for me.

http://xbcd360guide.50webs.com/guide.html

hardcoreobscure

9th January 2008, 20:07

Your right mate my mistake the XBCD drivers do work with the 360 controllers, but only for the wired ones. I have the wireless controller and it is still unsupported :(

ill edit my post

atlantian

9th January 2008, 20:37

BYN

10th January 2008, 01:28

If you use the wired version of Xbox 360 controller, use XBCD. Someone's posted the link I think. If you don't know how to use it, just read the instructions on that website.

If you use the wireless version, use the "Japanese Driver"!! There's an English version of the same driver but I have to find the link to the website so if anyone wants to know, just let me know and I'll look for the address. BTW, this driver for the wireless version works equally well (if not better) compared to XBCD. Vibration is supported as well

There are times when I can't be bothered to use the wheel. With the Xbox controller, I can have throttle and brake separate, switch off all aids, operate the clutch for manual trannies, do throttle blips and cuts, etc. Of course, it can't compare to a good wheel but still it's fun!

atlantian

10th January 2008, 01:32

I used the downloads from this site:
http://xbcd360guide.50webs.com/ (http://xbcd360guide.50webs.com/guide.html)
and there are no other ones, all the other ones are xbox not 360
i don't know of anyother...

BYN

10th January 2008, 09:01

AAAAAAH! i started using the XBCD package from this guy (http://xbcd360guide.50webs.com/) and it worked well, i can now control the throttle and brake separately, but now i am having problems with the right analog stick, it works in tests and the control configuration with live for speed but now i can't seem to use the clutch!!! now i am restricted to auto tranny

and the game seems to read everything as appropriate for a rumble, from clutching to turning to even shifting and accelerating. My hand got kinda numb so i eventually turned rumble off altogether

this is my setup:
left shoulder button- shift down
right shoulder button- shift up
right trigger- throttle
left trigger- brake
X- ebrake
Y- horn
b- flash
b- look back
d-pad up- zoom in
d-pad down- zoom out
d-pad left- look left
d-pad right- look right
start- ignition
select- reset car
Left analog stick- steering
right analog stick- clutch

Hey I've just tried your setting with a wireless 360.
The clutch worked! I don't really understand what's the problem. Can you explain more? I'll see if I can help.

Also, with your setting, you'll have to use your middle fingers to controller the triggers... I tried that just now. Together with the clutch, it was way too difficult to do throttle blips and cuts... Well, maybe I'm just not used to it...

With a gamepad, you better use a button for the clutch and use your index fingers to control the triggers.
Try A: clutch, X: downshift, B: upshift
It shouldn't be hard to press AX or AB at the same time.
I can switch off all aids to drive manual cars, do throttle blips and cuts with ease. Well, with some practice of course...

hardcoreobscure

10th January 2008, 10:12

BYN I would be very grateful if you could post a link to the Japanese wireless 360 drivers (or the English equivalent)

Thanks :thumb:

BYN

10th January 2008, 10:52

No problem mate! Here you go...

English version:
http://x360wc.tripod.com/index.html

Original Japanese version:
http://www.katch.ne.jp/~morii/x360wc/index.html

Please note that the English version was based on the original Japanese version published on 2007/08/05 but on the Japanese site, I saw the updated date for those drivers was 2007/10/13!!! I'm not sure if there are any differences though.

I'm using the most up-to-date Japanese version and haven't tried the English one but I guess the English version should be ok.

Unlike XBCD, you don't need to install the original Microsucks driver so if you've got that installed maybe you should unstall that before installing this.

I'm using the driver myself and it works like a dream so if you've got any questions, feel free to ask!

I hope LFS can support controller profiles in the future so that I can save two profiles, one for the wheel and one for the gamepad......

DeKo

10th January 2008, 11:30

There is no option like that for a controller, like I said, windows recognizes both as a single axis
Which is why you use XBCD instead of the shite default drivers.

atlantian

11th January 2008, 03:17

oh, yes, have you guys figured a way to split other axis too?
i am kinda tired of pulling down the right analog stick to engage the clutch... it's kinda distracting when driving...

i push the analog stick up to disengage the clutch and pull it down to drive the car.

and i don't believe in the button configured clutch, it's a pedal, not an on/off switch. i only setup a button e-brake because i rarely use it. as they say,
"ebrake initiations are for beginners and wussies who don't like step out of their comfort zone"

BYN

11th January 2008, 05:02

You don't have to pull the stick down to engage the clutch.

On the Control tab, go to where you assign the axes, click on clutch, in the little section on the screen (to the right) showing all the axes, with your right stick at the centre, click on "C", now move the stick all the way up, click on "C" again, then select that axis for clutch.

When the stick is at the centre, clutch is engaged, when you move it upwards, clutch is disengaged. End of story.

good luck mate

hardcoreobscure

11th January 2008, 09:43

I installed the english version of the drivers you linked to and they worked perfectly BYN

Cheers mate :thumb:

BYN

12th January 2008, 01:42

Good to hear that!

Have you figured out how to configure the controller using that driver's interface?
At first I found that really confusing as it was quite different from XBCD's one...

dx11

12th January 2008, 18:24

Is anyone using a wireless 360 controller with the 360 wireless receiver adapter? Will these drivers work for it as well? Thanks.

BYN

12th January 2008, 22:22

The 360 wireless receiver is needed if you want to use the wireless controller on PC.
I'm using the same setup and the driver I mentioned above should work for you! :thumb:

dx11

12th January 2008, 23:07

The 360 wireless receiver is needed if you want to use the wireless controller on PC.
I'm using the same setup and the driver I mentioned above should work for you! :thumb:
Thanks! Glad I didn't buy the wireless receiver for nothing.

lil chris

15th January 2008, 23:58

No problem mate! Here you go...

English version:
http://x360wc.tripod.com/index.html

Original Japanese version:
http://www.katch.ne.jp/~morii/x360wc/index.html (http://www.katch.ne.jp/%7Emorii/x360wc/index.html)

Please note that the English version was based on the original Japanese version published on 2007/08/05 but on the Japanese site, I saw the updated date for those drivers was 2007/10/13!!! I'm not sure if there are any differences though.

I'm using the most up-to-date Japanese version and haven't tried the English one but I guess the English version should be ok.

Unlike XBCD, you don't need to install the original Microsucks driver so if you've got that installed maybe you should unstall that before installing this.

I'm using the driver myself and it works like a dream so if you've got any questions, feel free to ask!

I hope LFS can support controller profiles in the future so that I can save two profiles, one for the wheel and one for the gamepad......

May I ask how the anolog sensitivity is on those drivers? on the XBCD's ones I find it still way too sensitive and cant find a way to cahnge it as things seem a bit muddled up :schwitz:. Also any other ingame options to make the anolog stick less sensitive? iv tried anologo smooth steer on 0.96 (max) and got very low Max Steering locks on the setups. Cant get the damn thing anyless sensitive and its driving me nuts!

ps are those drivers only for the 360 wireless controllers?

WizardHat

16th January 2008, 02:49

I installed the english version of the drivers you linked to and they worked perfectly BYN

Cheers mate :thumb:

Do I just place those folders where the readme shows them in that folder stack?

BYN

16th January 2008, 03:07

On the tab for the sticks, you can set the deadzones.
Usually I set them as small as I can so that I can have more range for the stick and at the same time the stick can centre well (or reasonably well, doesn't need to centre perfectly)
There's a 100 point scale there for setting the effective range for the sticks. I set it as 3 on the left and 0 (max) on the right.

Use higher values for analog smooth steer and Wheel turn compensation. Use a lower value for the Steering lock for the car you want to drive.
As for myself, my current setting is:
analog smooth steer = 5
Wheel turn compensation = 9
Steering lock = 13 (up to 15 if it's needed)

When I first started using a 360 controller for LFS, I thought having a linear axis for steering was important. Well, that's good for wheels but later I found out it's not really good for gamepads. It's actually good to have a pretty high Wheel turn compensation for gamepads.

I'm quite happy with the 360 controller and I haven't touched my wheel for ages! With my current setting, I don't find it too sensitve.

Not sure if the drivers work for other controllers...
Can you try? :scratchch

lil chris

16th January 2008, 14:48

Ill try the drivers with a 360 pad with a cord and see what happens. So far got 3 joypads and been testing them but for me the sensativity is still to high on all of them, also did you type a mistake with the anolog smooth steer being on 5? On my lfs the maximum amount of anolog smooth steer only reaches 0.96 :shrug:.

EDIT: Found a problem with my setup, all the setting on my 360 pad seem fine out side of LFS but in game LFS allocates the axis's differently and will only pickup my left anolog stick as a form of button, meaning when i tilt the anolog stick left it instantly moves the furthest left possible( same for all directions) But my right anolog seems to be working fine? seems weird that lfs is detecting it as a form of button/dpad??? any help?

xCRuSTyx

16th January 2008, 16:57

I had this problem too with my 360 controller and havnt found a solution for this. So I've bought MOMO racing. But I'm still using the 360 controller for other games because it is a great controller.

BYN

17th January 2008, 06:56

I don't think the wireless driver will work with the wired Xbox 360 controller...

chris, on the XBCD interface, you can check if the sticks are properly assigned as analogue. If they are but the left stick is still recognised as digital in LFS, try assigning different axes to the left stick (any of the xyz or xyz rotation ones) or if the right stick is recognised in LFS as analogue, assign the right stick's axes to the left stick and then assign some other axes to the right stick.

I guess LFS won't care about which stick you use, it just cares about which axes you use! If the gamepad's working properly, I don't see why you can't get it work in LFS.

xCRuSTyx too keep trying! Don't give up! :smileypul

lil chris

17th January 2008, 16:58

Yeah after alot of fiddling around I sorted out the problem, not sure what I exactly did to fix it but after a good few calibrations in windows it behaved correctly (im guess somehow the calibrations got completly screwed somewhere). Even with this sorted i still found the anolog still too sensitive! so far I reverted back to my Logitech rumble pad as the anolog sticks are slight largers so more control :scratchch. Still even this joypad is too sensitive for my liking. was looking forward t ohaving breaks and accelerator on the triggers but ill survive.

On a side note if your having problems with setting up the xbox 360 pad try "pinacle game profiler", pretty much works with any joypad and lets you change settings (still too sensitive) although its only a 30 day trial unless you but the full version. So far the only real setting which helped with the sensitivity issues was anologue smooth steer in the LFS options but it would be a dream come true if it went past the maximum of 0.95. sorry for blabbing on a bit!

dx11

17th January 2008, 19:27

Has anyone able to use 2 controllers with the Japanese drivers?

pbrown

17th January 2008, 23:44

I thought I would give pinnacle a go after using xbcd. First impressions seemed good. Xbcd doesn't have sensitivity but pinnacle seemes to. Sensitivity only appears to work in lfs when the joystick is assigned as a mouse. Using "spring back" the mouse centres when the stick centres. So all looks good except..........

LFS will only let you assign buttons or keyboard for acc and brake when using mouse steer so...... Damn it, only digital. Pinnacle lets you assign controller commands to keyboard or mouse but this doesn't get around the digital part... Back to xbcd.

I have recently made my dead zones a little bit larger and now the controller is easier to use due to going into the stiffer part of the thumb stick before it starts to steer much. I was thinking if I set it really low then it would be easier to control but that didn't suit me.

Still not ideal but seems the best for corded controller. Hopefuly xbcd will come out with a non linear response curve for the sticks but I doubt that will happen in a hurry.

lil chris

18th January 2008, 00:08

Thanks for that info you gave me a few idea's I quite fancey trying with my old joypad with the pincacle software. I never thought about making the stick linked to the mouse. when the anolog stick centres does it centre the mouse ?

BYN

18th January 2008, 02:25

I usually adjust sensitivity (or linearity) in game, not through the controller driver. In LFS, it's called wheel turn compensation. Have you tried adjusting that?

Sorry about the typos earlier. My setting for the 360 wireless should be:
analogue steer smooth = 0.5
wheel turn = 90 degrees
wheel turn compensation = 0.9
steering lock = 13 degrees (up to 15 if needed)

Try higher analogue steer smooth, wheel turn compensation and a lower steering lock.

Having a larger deadzone will worsen the sensitivity issue. Having a smaller deadzone means finer controller when the stick is near the centre and that helps placing the car at the right spot before a turn.

pbrown

18th January 2008, 02:34

BYN:
Yes I have both analog smooth and compensation at the extremes. My steering locks may be high but sometimes I feel you need the lock to get out of some situations.

I too thought the lower deadzone value would make it less sensitive. In a way it does but the xbox 360 controller I have has a small amount of area where the resistance (physical) is low. Making the deadzone bigger means when the stick gets out of the deadzone there is a fair amount of resistance (physical) to movement.

pbrown

18th January 2008, 02:39

lil chris: Yes the mouse pointer centres when you centre the stick so the steering works well in pinnacle. Don't need to push the other way to get centre again. Just make sure you map the stick to mouse with spring back. Let me know how you go with acc and brake if there is a work around the digital limitation when steering with mouse.

BYN

18th January 2008, 02:53

Maybe I'm the only one with a golden thumb? :smileypul

pbrown:
What steering lock do you use? 13 should work for most cases really. Your car setup and driving style seriously affect the way you go around a tight corner. You don't need so much steering lock.

All the analogue steer smooth, wheel turn compensation and steering lock (not sure about wheel turn tho) affect sensitivity quite a lot. You can't ignore any one of them. If I get any one of those wrong, even I'll find it sensitive.

BTW, have you guys tried this:
http://kontrolfreek.com/products.html
As I haven't got any problems with my 360 controller so I can't be bothered to...

pbrown

18th January 2008, 03:08

Well I have really only raced the fxo gtr mainly around blackwood gp and can get 1.10's and consistent 1.12's without too much difficulty but I feel like I need to be extra carefull on the stick for just about every corner. I have a lock of 20 degrees, this may not help by the sound of it.

When I change the wheel turn compensation from 1.00 to 0.00 it doesn't seem to alter the steering bar at the bottom of the screen nor does adjusting the steering wheel turn from 90 to 540. Should these show on the bar in the control setup? I have tried clicking ok and coming back in but ti doesn't appear to be any different. LFS reports the controller as xbcd xbox 360 gamepad.

pbrown

18th January 2008, 03:20

I have now found that the wheel lock and compensation seem to make a difference on the turn axis when adjusting the options while driving but for some reason they don't show change on the axis when in the main menu settings.

I am now experimening with a lower steering lock. Cheers

BYN

18th January 2008, 04:40

I haven't noticed the difference between the axis in game and the one in the main menu.
But I'm pretty sure if you've got the car on the track and you change the setting, the changes will be reflected straight away.

A steering lock of 20 may be a little bit too much for a gamepad I'm afraid... I would find it too sensitive at 20 too. I remember some people even suggested locks like below 13.

I don't drive 4WD's really but they seem to be a tad too understeery to me... Maybe that's why you feel you need more steering lock? Have you tried FWD and RWD yet?

lil chris

18th January 2008, 13:53

I mainly drive the XFG around blackwood and achieve quite reasonably fast laps times, but I feel I could go faster and more efficient if my wheels were turning smoothing instead of quite dramatic wild turns. so far in XFG my setting were
anolog smooth steer = 0.95 (max)
wheel turn compensation = 1.00 (max)
Max Steering lock = 19 (standard is 30)

as far as I know the steering lock on 19 is really low as anyone else who gets my set amusingly ends up driving straight off the track trying to turn for hte corner!

found a quite reasonable setting with the pinacle profiler with Mouse spring but then unfortuantly said "my trial has excided its 30 days trial period of 30 days"...Only used it for 2 days.... Still its lets me use it for 15 minutes at a time before closing so if i get the triggers working ill let you know.

BYN

19th January 2008, 22:42

WizardHat:
You don't have to copy the files. Just follow the instructions in the readme.

dx11:
According to the original Japanese website, the driver doesn't support multiple controllers.

chris I don't think you need 19 degrees of steering lock to get around Blackwood. I can manage with 13 or less (even with default or race_s setups). The max steering lock for BF1 is only 16! You shouldn't depend on the steering lock to turn.

If you use pinacle profiler, can you still assign separate axes for gas and brake?

lil chris

19th January 2008, 23:55

Im sure Max Steering Locks on all cars stard on max, eg they should all be on the highest. So an xfg standard set will usually have a maxsteering lock of 30, as far as I know lower the number the less sensative it is, and higher the number the higher sensitivity. lowest iv got with max steering lock in XFG is 15 and thats LOW, i know this because when I pull out of the pit to qualify I dont have enough pit lane to actually turn out at that low speed :shrug:

dont know if my version of LFS is screwed up because your confusing with the values you are using on your setups? such as you having Anolog steer smooth on 5. My LFS only allows me the minimum of 0.00 and maximum of 0.95, if you did manage to get 5 im curious how you did this as it would be a great help to get more than 0.95.

BYN

20th January 2008, 07:07

My current controller setting has been put in post #42.
I just did some typos in a previous post...
Maxing analogue steer smooth and wheel turn compensation should make things much easier. I don't even have to max those two.

Not all people use the max available steering locks. Even the people with wheels lower the steering locks sometimes. And if you watch the world records, you'll see they don't really use the whole range of the steering lock. Yes, if you lower your steering lock, it'll be a bit hard to get out of the garage (just going around the pits should be ok) but how often will you have to get out of the garage? In a race, you don't even have to... Try different setups and driving styles to see if there'll be any difference? Otherwise, maybe you have to use a wheel?

Edit: chris I just looked at the WR's for XFR/BL1. I didn't know your fastest lap time was so close to the WR! Well, a wheel may get you to the top!

WizardHat

20th January 2008, 07:45

WizardHat:
You don't have to copy the files. Just follow the instructions in the readme.

Cheers.

Didn't read the part about needing the wireless receiver for it to work so looks like I'll have to invest in one.

lil chris

20th January 2008, 16:29

BYN

21st January 2008, 09:41

If precision is what you need... have you tried using a wheel? Although I don't drive with a wheel often now but I definitely have more precise control with a wheel. You may be able to achieve better lap times with a wheel?

lil chris

21st January 2008, 15:38

Thought about a wheel but theirs quite limited space in the room with the computer. Also I play more other games than lfs so dont think im that dedicated that much to buy one. Well im dedicated to getting fast so maybe I should :shrug:

BYN

23rd January 2008, 08:48

You and I use a gamepad for similar reasons... I use my PC and the computer desk for so many things. Gaming or LFS is just one of them. Having to setup the wheel, play the game and then put the wheel back after playing really puts me off...

Have you tried this Logitech gamepad?
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/gamepads/devices/292&cl=gb,en
That's an Xbox-style gamepad but from Logitech. Not sure about the quality though.

I've tried the Thrustmaster Run'N' Drive 3 in 1 Rumble Force cos I was quite interested in that "wheel" on the gamepad. But it's just rubbish... The triggers were horrible and the "wheel" didn't really help steering at all.
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=35&PlatformID=5

However, I tried another Thrustmaster gamepad called Wireless Dual Trigger earlier and it felt quite good:
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=50&PlatformID=5

What gamepads are you using besides the Xbox 360 wireless?

lil chris

24th January 2008, 14:18

My brother has the logitech x-box chill stream pad but I found it the same problem with the x-box controllers (the movement for the anolog sticks is a bit small making it more sensative) The bonus with the logitech pad hough is that it comewith drivers that actually work for pc and as far as i know you can change the settings in logitech profiler. At the moment iv gone back to my Logitech Dual Action gamepad as that what im used to. The main thing missing on this gamepad is not having triggers, maybe if anyone knows of any PS3 joypads with triggers that work for pc let me know :scratchch. Overall I think the sensitivity is down to personal preference, actually improved my times by upping it making it quite repsonsive :shrug: as all my efforts just resulted in me turning my anolog stick left and the wheels trying to catch up :scratchch. So far iv Balanced the wheels and the anolog stick to move at the same degree. I just need to be REALLY steady with my thumb which g=can get tiring for my thumb :).

Still though looking at XFG on Bl1 I have gathered info that the WR holder "Stallone" used an x-box pad, so obviously hes comfortable with the sensitivity, also its interesting seeing his use of the triggers for brake and acceleration. Must find a ps3 pad compatable with pc ;)

BYN

24th January 2008, 22:50

Lucky me I didn't buy the Logitech Chill Stream pad...

Does the stick on Logitech Dual Action pad have bigger moving range than Xbox? I haven't got anything to measure but the range of the Xbox stick is roughly around 50 degrees? How much is that for the Logitech Dual Action? Well, anyway, I can't accept a combined axis for gas and brake...

Does Stallone28 really use an Xbox 360 pad?! That sounds promising!! Those in 2nd, 3rd and 4th positions currently use a mouse (if m stands for mouse...).

Actually I used to use Wheel turn compensation = 0 and Analogue steer smooth = 0.3! :D I'll min all of the them and see what's gonna happen! :scratchch

Do you know this pad:
http://www.fanatec.de/html/index.php?id=260&lang=en
That's actually for PS2 but looks like a wii pad. But can't be used on a PC...

Also, what about the originally PS3 pad? I'm quite interested in it's motion sensor axis. Is that any good? Can it to be used on a PC?

lil chris

25th January 2008, 19:53

Actually comparing both the joypads at the moment, the logitech one looks to have a bigger moving range m=but measuring them they seem to be fairly much the same :shrug: Think the reason for this is that the Logitechs anolog stick sits in a square hole rather than the x-boxs circular one. Did some research and found some custom made drivers to make the PS3 pad work on pc! Obviously you have to keep it connected through the usb cable and dont know where the triggers actually work or are detected as buttons. They stated that the sixaxis sensors dont work yet but the wii remote sensors work on pc, so they seem to think they it may work in the future. If I get my hands on a PS3 controller soon ill post what I find :D

atlantian

25th January 2008, 19:58

BYN

25th January 2008, 22:59

Earlier I said the Thrustmaster Run'N' Drive 3 in 1 Rumble Force was rubbish but I appreciate the designers' original ideas of having a "wheel" on a pad (though not really good) and also the two buttons on the back of the pad (which can be pressed by your middle fingers, though they are located in some ackward positions and hence difficult to reach...). But the quality of the pad is just bad... a waste of design efforts... With the ordinary pads, your middle, ring and little fingers on both hands can't be used. That's kind of a waste don't you think so?

I personally think the Xbox-style pad is a huge improvement over the PS one (mainly cos of the triggers). Now only if they have buttons on the back of the pad and also something (triggers maybe?) on the back for the CLUTCH!!! :scratchch

Not sure about how well the PS3 Sixaxis works for racing sims though... so would like to hear any feedback! :D But I've got the gut feeling that it'll have worse sensitivity issues compared to the Xbox pad.

chris which PS3 controller driver did you get? I just found the one on http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45209.

atlantian

26th January 2008, 00:16

you know, i thought maybe there should be 4 triggers...

L1-brake
R1-throttle
L2-ebrake
R2-clutch

... but my friend commented that people are not usually dexterous with their hands(i am a violinist, guitarist, and pianist). i am now used to controlling a whole car with my hands... my cousin who i tried introducing the game with nearly fried his brain trying to toeheel before a corner... and he is a frequent autocrosser with an IS250.

note:classical guitar style, no pick, no strum, just five fingers.

BYN

26th January 2008, 00:47

Hey atlantian if by ebrake you mean handbrake than that's it! I just missed that one!

Yea having all L1, L2, R1, R2 as triggers is actually perfect for racing games! And also some buttons on the back of the pad would be nice so the ring and little fingers can be used too! :scratchch

I use the left trigger for brake and left stick for steering on my Xbox pad. At first, I found it "impossible" to trail brake and steer at the same time cos I had to use the same left hand. Now it's just second nature to me! So I guess we just need some practice to get used to whatever config there is on the pad! :smileypul

An L1, L2, R1, R2 all triggers pad would be excellent! Well, Thrustmaster came up with a pad with a "wheel" on it so I guess nothing's impossible!

atlantian

26th January 2008, 02:47

well i have the right analog up for clutch
and left analog for ebrake so i think xbox con is perfect.

but i said that the normal human don't have enough brain cells "partitioned" for using their digits... unless you are a musician or a craftsman, or a surgen

N1Te

26th January 2008, 14:53

But if i don't use the triggers, I can't have like 1/2 gas to go just below 80 in the pits.

lil chris

26th January 2008, 15:03

duuuuuude! no! the reason i didn't choose the six axies is because it has no analog triggers! the xbox allows for smooth control of the pedals, if you wanted buttons then why not buy a keyboard instead?

...and the tilting doesn't count... what are u going to do??? use the analog sticks as pedals and use the tilt for steering? or vica versa?

Obviously I did not want the sixaxies PS3 pad for the tilting feature, (infact iv played with the tilting feature on the ps3 and so far its terrible! slight delay from your movment). Im more comfortable holding a ps2/3 pad than an x-box 360 pad. And the benifit of having the PS3 was having the triggers, but you have just said that the triggers dont work (or are not anolog) so im guessing you have tried this already? Dont think brain cells have anything to do with how well you can multitask on a joypad, if you practice you adapt to that movement more easily therefore becoming more natural, that point almost looked as if it was an insult to people who dont use joypads from my point of view :schwitz:, Either way I play guitar so my digits are fairy competant.

atlantian

26th January 2008, 20:24

idk if it's me or i think some people misunderstood me for saying you need to "superhuman digits" to use xbox cons. but i was talking about a con with 4 triggers...no such con...:(

BYN

26th January 2008, 20:29

lil chris

26th January 2008, 22:38

atlantian,
it may have been me who understood you ( sorry, was not suppose to be an attack on you :(). If you meant people who use heir digits for activites such as guitar/craftsmen I agree they would find it easier to adapt to a joypad easier. I just disagreed that brain cells have anything to do with it :D.

BYN,
I havent tried the PS3 Joypad yet on pc just from experience of using it on the Playstation 3 I thought the 6 axis motions sensors had a slight delay to your movement (game I used it on was motorstorm + that flying multiplayer one?). Dont know how sensitive the anolog sticks are on pc yet, need to steal a ps3 pad off my brother first :D

BYN

27th January 2008, 07:44

hey chris I want to know the PS3 pad on PS3, did you feel delay only? Was the axis sensitive for steering/gas/brake? I guess the motion sensor axes are mainly for things like action games where precision is negligible but controlling the "hero" by your own motions is utter FUN!

lil chris

27th January 2008, 12:43

Sont know what you mean BYN, I dont think its possible to set acceleration and brakes to on those sensors (like you would want to). The buttons/anolog sticks adn triggers are work nice on the PS3, i just said the "sixaxis motions" feature on the joypad had slightly delayed input.

atlantian

27th January 2008, 19:52

actually, i tried GT5 Prologue at my friend's house, and the six axis is actually VERY analogue... with the triggers, having the same range of motion as the xbox trigs, and there is force feedback on those triggers... the brakes vibrate, but there was no rumble.

BYN

28th January 2008, 02:43

Wait a minute!!! I didn't know the PS3 pad had triggers!!!
I finally understand what you guys are talking about... :schwitz:

So the PS3 triggers have about the same range of motion as the Xbox triggers?
I'd love to know if the analogue sticks are good too (too sensitive or not)!
With the PS3 Sixaxis drivers for PC we can find on the net, can we tweak deadzones or remap buttons and axes like XBCD?

I've heard of the new PS3 Dualshock 3, which has rumble. Not sure if it's available yet outside Japan tho.

Edit: And what about the Wii Classic Controller? Will it work with a PC without having to connect it to that Wii Remote?

Done some research on the PS3 SIXAXIS driver for PC.
The driver mentioned on the website I quoted seems to be the only one available now...
It seems to just make SIXAXIS work on PC but it hasn't got any config interface like that of XBCD...
It only supports USB (not Bluetooth) and motion sensor isn't supported.
BTW, the original driver was again written by a Japanese, I guess.

It'd be interesting if the range of motion for the triggers was about the same as that of Xbox 360 and if the sticks had better precision!
I'd love to get a DUALSHOCK 3 and have a try!

N1Te

29th January 2008, 23:21

So the PS3 Sixaxis has delay?! Is it very sensitive like other pads too?

Yeah I agree people just get used to things after practice.
Do you guys know how to ride a motorbike? I don't. But they seem to control hell loads of things using their hands... I'll wait for the 2-stick, 4-trigger pad with buttons on the back and a good driver for PC included... (wishful thinking?...)

PS3 Sixaxis motion sensitivity has no delays. Don't listen to him...

I played the other day, and it followed my movements exactly. Either the controller he used had low battery, was in bad condition, or the motion sensor in the PS3 was broken. All other times it was fine.

BYN

30th January 2008, 01:29

Good to hear that! Well different people feel differently I guess.

So you've used the PS3 controller on PS3. Apart from the question of having delay or not, did you find the sticks, triggers and motion sensor axes too sensitive for racing games?

CSU1

30th January 2008, 19:48

Hi Everybody:D all this is well and good and triggers make great gas and brake control. But it is impossible to steer with good precision and endurance, as racing sims do not offer the same nannying support by smoothing steering and throttle/brake axis that 'games' offer.

Don't get me wrong, gamepads are/where a lot of fun to drive with, and i've played with pad for two and a half years and had some excellent races. The only result will be you getting frustrated as you get faster in LFS. You'll then decide to dump it and play a game instead, or you go out and buy a wheel. If you all want my advice, buy any wheel and save yourselfs the frustration and waste of 'time'.:thumb:

lil chris

30th January 2008, 20:59

PS3 Sixaxis motion sensitivity has no delays. Don't listen to him...

I played the other day, and it followed my movements exactly. Either the controller he used had low battery, was in bad condition, or the motion sensor in the PS3 was broken. All other times it was fine.

I used the motion sensors for steering on motorstorm and to me felt like there was a slight delay(Pad was charged). After doing some research I found mixed results people saying its "delayed" and also people saying its "too sensitive". I heard somewhere there may be an option to change this? If so I guess it does not matter as you would be able to tweak it to your own delight.

and CSU1, nice of you to join us and your "Guide: Using a Gamepad with LFS" has been very helpful :thumb:

To an extent though I think LFS has dont quite well (far better than other games/sims) with joypad/mouse/keyboard support with crucial options such as: button control rates, Anolog steer smooth and such. I would like a wheel but room/time it would spend attached to my desk would be a hassle. Your opinion is very much welcome .Though so far I think I achieve quite reasonable results in the XFG im just a bit worried about faster/rear wheeled cars.

CSU1

30th January 2008, 22:33

so far I think I achieve quite reasonable results in the XFG im just a bit worried about faster/rear wheeled cars.

The xfg was my car of choice too, that and the fox are easy to drive with the pad but everything else is just impossible RAC, LX being the two most difficult imo.:nod:

BYN

31st January 2008, 07:35

I used the motion sensors for steering on motorstorm and to me felt like there was a slight delay(Pad was charged). After doing some research I found mixed results people saying its "delayed" and also people saying its "too sensitive". I heard somewhere there may be an option to change this? If so I guess it does not matter as you would be able to tweak it to your own delight.

An option to change the sensitivity of the motion sensor, did you mean doing it on PS3, or PC? :scratchch

lil chris

31st January 2008, 14:14

on the PS3, as the motion sensors dont work yet on the pc drivers. Dont know if that is true though just read it somewhere.

CSU1 I remember a while ago did a bit of BF1 and LX racing, think the main problem was the spinning due to the sudden acceleration but changing the button control to a much lower number seemed to help loads. But still the sudden twitch's of the anolog sticks can still cause spins :x

BYN

13th February 2008, 08:08

I've finally got a PS3 DUALSHOCK 3!
The stick feels better than the one on Xbox.

The big problem is: I've tried two drivers I found:
1) sixaxisdriver.exe
2) libusb-win32-filter-bin-0.1.10.1.exe + ps3sixaxis_en.exe

and both of them assigned the triggers to buttons...... And axes and buttons can't be remapped like the Xbox drivers...... In fact, it only has 4 axes for the two sticks only. The rest are all buttons......

Are there any drivers that assign the triggers as axes or have remapping function? Help!!

ToXiC10

13th February 2008, 10:39

Hmm, well this sounds weird iv'e got an Xbox 360 controller which im actualy using to play LFS my Break and throttle works on the both, he must of not set it up right in controls it atleast took me 1hour and 30 minutes to suss it out my self...

atlantian

13th February 2008, 14:28

what driver did you use?

ToXiC10

13th February 2008, 15:47

I using a wired one i just plugged it in boxes come up clicked " Yes, Yes, Yes" and then i went in-game and it started all the pwnage i guess, took me a while to suss tho..

atlantian

13th February 2008, 19:40

I using a wired one i just plugged it in boxes come up clicked " Yes, Yes, Yes" and then i went in-game and it started all the pwnage i guess, took me a while to suss tho..

lolz... can you share it? sounds awsome

ToXiC10

13th February 2008, 20:23

Hmm, do you have a wired usb one??? or a wireless one... reply soon as..:thumb:

Fredthebest

13th February 2008, 22:06

I think you should buy a wheel, you can get decent wheels for £20-£30 and any wheel is better than a gamepad. I used to use a gamepad and It sucked, bought a Saitek R440 - Which is £60, not that dear compared to the G25 but the Saitek R440 is a nice wheel and I think it rules so, yeah get a wheel.

BYN

14th February 2008, 03:07

Yeah I know how good wheels are. I've used G25.

My Xbox pads work perfectly on PC. I was asking about the PS3 pad.
Mine is the DUALSHOCK 3 and it's got rumble.
I don't expect the motion sensor and rumble to work at this stage but having analogue triggers is a must......

atlantian

14th February 2008, 03:25

btw, the wheels are not good unless it's the best of the best...

dawesdust_12

14th February 2008, 04:38

What basis do you say that on?

A black momo is still a decent wheel, and it's far from being the best
a DFP is a decent wheel, and it's far from being the best
G25, decent wheel, and the best consumer wheel, but far from the best best

Best of the best isn't always needed, you just need to find something that fits your needs and expect that if you pay 10$ for some shit Madcatz wheel, that it'll be shit, and games will struggle with it, etcera.

atlantian

14th February 2008, 04:55

i need something that i can practice driving in...
preferably the force dynamic 401 kit, with the g25...

but i am considering what to get... the G25(tried and true) or the new porsche wheel(there are said to be very poor in quality, but it has a thicker wheel and better modeling of pedal depression)

dawesdust_12

14th February 2008, 07:31

ToXiC10

14th February 2008, 09:10

Iv'e got a decent wheel down stairs with pedals, im gonna start using that soon..:thumb:

Fredthebest

14th February 2008, 09:14

btw, the wheels are not good unless it's the best of the best...
No wheels are ever best of the best, I've got a Saitek R440 and its not the best, and the G25 is not the best of the best either, no wheels are the best of the best..

ToXiC10

14th February 2008, 18:47

Thats, a true story tbh :D :thumb:

atlantian

14th February 2008, 19:07

Well, speaking as someone that's only started to drive a car, after many years of sim racing. Don't try. There are some ways that a wheel could have helped, but there's so many situations where you should forget all simracing experience.
i started driving at about...12...

and btw, the best of the best is a replicated cabin on hydrualics like the force dynamic

The Radness

14th February 2008, 19:42

i need something that i can practice driving in...
)

You should get guitar hero too. That way you can practice playing guitar :scratchch .......It's not the same, and never will be.

atlantian

14th February 2008, 20:15

yeah... okey... but what about the cost of tires... the cost of fuel... and parts?

The Radness

14th February 2008, 20:46

yeah... okey... but what about the cost of tires... the cost of fuel... and parts?

:shrug:what about it? Having the "best of the best" wheel won't make you a better driver in real life..... Just like driving an F1 car won't make you a better driver, on the road or the track.

to say that you need the "best of the best" to drive better is ignorant.

atlantian

14th February 2008, 20:48

won't i learn about braking points and traction, and also throttle response if i drive/drift/race in LFS?

The Radness

14th February 2008, 20:58

Thats only assuming that the physics are 100% Real Life. They aren't.

Plus your missing out on other factors that affect the way you drive IRL. G-forces, the feel of proper driving/racing speeds. The proper sounds of other cars driving near you.

I don't quite see how learning braking points on fictional tracks will be terribly beneficial in a real life racing on real life tracks.

atlantian

14th February 2008, 20:59

meh, it's not like memorizing tracks... it's more like learning to corner or perfecting cornering... and i thought that the physics on LFS is pretty acurate, more so then GT

The Radness

14th February 2008, 21:15

meh, it's not like memorizing tracks... it's more like learning to corner or perfecting cornering... and i thought that the physics on LFS is pretty acurate, more so then GT

It is alot better than GT. But I'd hazard a guess that every corner on every track everywhere is different. Track temperatures, track CoF, dirt on the track are all going to effect the way you take a corner. It will help you in a sim enviorment, but not in a RL situation.

The feel of going into a corner at top speed with real repurcussions (see: bodily injury) is too frightening for most individuals. You have to learn to trust your car and not your instincts. Instincts make you cautious. Thats a good thing.

If you ignored instinct and drove into the first corner the way you do in sim racing games, you would go into the wall, or you wouldn't make it around the a whole lap.

atlantian

14th February 2008, 22:54

It is alot better than GT. But I'd hazard a guess that every corner on every track everywhere is different. Track temperatures, track CoF, dirt on the track are all going to effect the way you take a corner. It will help you in a sim enviorment, but not in a RL situation.

The feel of going into a corner at top speed with real repurcussions (see: bodily injury) is too frightening for most individuals. You have to learn to trust your car and not your instincts. Instincts make you cautious. Thats a good thing.

If you ignored instinct and drove into the first corner the way you do in sim racing games, you would go into the wall, or you wouldn't make it around the a whole lap.
that's why you would have to start slow on RL racing, warm-up laps FTW...

ToXiC10

15th February 2008, 00:48

Hehe, when you get to know the tracks tho you don't need warm you see :thumb:

atlantian

15th February 2008, 03:05

Hehe, when you get to know the tracks tho you don't need warm you see :thumb:
you would have to have it ABSOLUTELY memorized if you want to do that...

actually, about 12 hours off the track is enough for you to forget enough aspects of the track... you need to know every single part of the track...

MijnWraak

15th February 2008, 04:17

atlantian

15th February 2008, 05:23

^i can't brake and throttle at the same time on the G25 that is better then the DFP which ended up closing the thread for 4 pages!:D

atlantian

16th February 2008, 03:44

actually i need help on setting the axis on XBCD

i have the triggers set as such
LT= Z-
RT= RZ-

the LT is set as brake
the RT is set as throttle

the throttle works fine, the pedal is perfectly matched to the RT
the brake goes from half depressed to floored...
half depressed= trigger not pressed
floored= trigger fully depressed

can anyone help me with this?

i downloaded the profile from (separate triggers)
http://xbcd360guide.50webs.com/download.html

...man... this feels like programming all over again... you fix one thing, another goes wrong...

EDIT:nevermind, fixed it!

atlantian

18th February 2008, 19:22

Go look at the guide (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=39086) i made for the xbox 360 controller!

cps82

20th February 2008, 11:44

I'm having this problem as well. Wireless controller.

I've installed the Japanese diver (English version) which has appeared to install fine. I can adjust all the settings but no matter what I do it will not save my changes. I change the triggers then select, apply, ok.

Go back into properties to check and it has reset back to default: triggers acting as buttons 11 and 12.

Anybody know why this happens?

I notice also that it says that my controller is always connected when the receiver is connected even if the controller isn't on(!) and the icon 'x360wcsai.exe' doesn't even show in the sys tray.

Please anybody with any ideas? I would be very grateful.

ToXiC10

20th February 2008, 14:37

Thank god i don't have problems i think its because my controller was a wired one and now i got a wheel :) which im happy with :D:thumb:

atlantian

20th February 2008, 19:32

hmm... interesting...

my experience was that the japanese driver wouldn't even start to install when i clicked on the exe file

RavensRage

18th March 2008, 10:28

i found some third party drivers for the wireless xbox 360 controller that allows you to setup separate axis for the triggers and stuff.

i cant remember how to install them tho as it took me 3 hrs to find them

these drivers are not supported by micro$oft.

http://www.katch.ne.jp/~morii/x360wc/index.html

ps Drivers are in english as well