Very poor performance since ATI Cat 5.12's [Archive]

danowat

11th December 2005, 13:07

Hi,

I today installed the latest Cat drivers for my ATIX800pro, and have shown a reasonable performance hike in all of my games except LFS.
It used to run at 100fps+ , but now I am lucky if I get 20fps, averaging around 15fps which is frankly unplayable.
I havent changed anything in my system apart from the drivers, my specs are P4 3.4ghz, 1gb ram, and the X800pro.

Any help would be great.

Dan.

Lautsprecher[NOR]

11th December 2005, 13:13

Go back to 5.11 then, possibly even go for the Omega ones:
www.omegadrivers.net

danowat

11th December 2005, 13:41

In testing I have found Omega's to not be as good as people say they are, also, why should I be forced back to an older driver?, everything else works fine with the new one, so should LFS.

Dan.

Lautsprecher[NOR]

11th December 2005, 14:52

why should I be forced back to an older driver?
Cuz it works:scratchch

Doorman

11th December 2005, 15:32

For the first time EVER the latest drivers have been worse than the previous ones.(for me anyway) I too have a P4 3.4 X800XT and 1.5gig of ram. With 5.11 I was getting 85-95 fps under any circumstances with 8x AA and 16x AF. With 5.12 it plummeted to 10-15 fps!:yikes: Moved back to 5.11 pretty damned quick!

BLooDMaN

11th December 2005, 16:00

Thank God I saw this thread. Got the same problem, Cat 5.12 run great with most games (I tried 10 different games) except LFS :(

Just roll back to the previous driver for now

danowat

11th December 2005, 16:02

Yes, but why?, why is it that LFS suffers so much with the new drivers and other games dont, all other games show improvements, but LFS has problems.

It doesnt bode well for future versions of drivers, so are well all stuck with 5.11's to get decent LFS performance?.

I would appreciate Scawen's input if possible.

Dan.

Krane

11th December 2005, 16:42

also, why should I be forced back to an older driver?, everything else works fine with the new one, so should LFS.Hmm.. lets see..
Previously all worked fine
You update a driver and don't change anything in LFS at all
Things go wrong

Who is at fault here? LFS or ATI?

the_angry_angel

11th December 2005, 17:08

Often there is little or no reason to upgrade the drivers. They rarely provide an increased performance for any but the newest cards, and when they do its minute (of course, there are bug fixes).

Basically graphics drivers need to know about the game in order to drive the game in the right way. By changing default behaviour, you can break support for games which the drivers do not "know". I'm 95% certain you'll find that theres some obsecure setting, or behaviour change in the new drivers.

danowat

11th December 2005, 17:18

The point I am trying to make is this, with the new drivers I get increased performance in 2 of my 3 main games, FS2004 & GTL, but the 3rd, LFS, gets poor performance, in my eyes LFS is at fault.
Why should I be FORCED to fore-go the perfomance increase in 2 games to solve the performance decrease in 1?.
What happens if someone new were to have 5.12 installed in their machine?, they would install the game thinking, well I have the latest drivers, this game must be shit because it runs so poorly.
Yes, I could go back to 5.11, but should I have too?

Dan.

Krane

11th December 2005, 17:33

The point I am trying to make is this, with the new drivers I get increased performance in 2 of my 3 main games, FS2004 & GTL, but the 3rd, LFS, gets poor performance, in my eyes LFS is at fault.Well your eyes are wrong :D

Regression Testing (http://opera.answers.com/topic/regression-testing), that's what the ATI driver developers forgot. If ATI changes something in their drivers, it's not LFS's fault that it doesn't work with the new version as good as it did in their previous driver version.

Edit: Besides, ATI is really infamous of their drivers not working well with other than the mainstream games

tristancliffe

11th December 2005, 17:34

Do you honestly expect Scawen to release a patch (if one were actually possible) for every new graphics driver? Thats just silly...

Situation1. Driver x and LFS 0.5Q = fine
Situation2. Driver (x+1) and LFS 0.5Q = not fine.

Looks like ATi as a(nother) bug in it's drivers. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last. Or, at a long shot, it's some obscure setting you've forgotten to change/update etc.

the_angry_angel

11th December 2005, 17:35

Why the hell is LFS at fault? This could happen to any number of games, and it HAS happened in the past MORE than once. HL2 didnt work on any new nvidia drivers for a long time. Is this the fault of Valve? No. Its nVidia. There is nothing a programmer can do, other than detect the current version of the drivers and say "Sorry, there are known issues with this driver version.".

All LFS does is push pologons at the graphics engine, which then does some culling, and shading and then passes this information to the chosen graphics framework, in the same manner as other games - using the DirectX framework. This could be an issue with all DirectX 8 games. If its just an issue with LFS then, as I say, its most likely an arbitary change in behaviour in the driver.

What happens if someone new were to have 5.12 installed in their machineThey should do the sensible thing and ask questions/do some debugging. I must admit I was well pissed off with getting HL2 and discovering I had to downgrade my driver over 3 revisions to play it; But its the choice of the user what they do. I chose to downgrade. Once fed up with this, I changed back to the latest version of the driver. No one is FORCING you to do anything. No one is FORCING you to upgrade and get an arbitary performance increase. I'm sure that those games dont run that slowly on your card.

SladiVadi

11th December 2005, 17:42

Inform them about the bug.

I don't have them but make sure adaptive antialiasing isn't on if it's in the drivers.

Lautsprecher[NOR]

11th December 2005, 17:48

Omega 5.12 works just as well as 5.11.
9800PRO

danowat

11th December 2005, 18:11

The strange thing is, I have found LFS to be one of the lesser nigglely programs in regards to drivers, I have had rock solid fast performance with every release of the ATI driver forever, but not with this latest one, infact, I dont think I can ever recall any program have such an adverse effect (100fps to 15fps) to a new driver.
Hopefully Scawen can look into it and discover why, it might be a simple switch that can be switched.

Dan.

Doorman

11th December 2005, 18:23

The strange thing is, I have found LFS to be one of the lesser nigglely programs in regards to drivers, I have had rock solid fast performance with every release of the ATI driver forever, but not with this latest one, in fact, I dont think I can ever recall any program have such an adverse effect (100fps to 15fps) to a new driver.

I agree 100%

Hopefully Scawen can look into it and discover why, it might be a simple switch that can be switched.
Dan.

As has been said already, it's not LFS's problem. This is a case of "Mmm, odd that" Revert to the old drivers and return to enjoying life.

Vinc

12th December 2005, 17:27

The new drivers has slowed down my games too. How do you go back to the older ones? You just re-install them?

And where can I download the 5.11 drivers?

danowat

12th December 2005, 18:41

Yes, just use the ATI uninstall routine from your add/remove programs box, I have gone back to 5.11's, back up to 100fps again.

Dan.

AndroidXP

12th December 2005, 18:50

Well, I dunno about ATi drivers, but I guess that has to be a 'feature' that probably was disabled due to a bug in the old drivers. Maybe it's something like the adaptive antialiasing screwing with LFS, but I'd first try to change some driver settings before giving LFS the fault.

danowat

12th December 2005, 21:08

Changed ALL driver settings, no joy, changed settings in LFS, no joy, changed back to 5.11's fine, bottomline is 5.12's do not work well in LFS, regardless of "blame".

Dan.

Doorman

12th December 2005, 21:19

The new drivers has slowed down my games too. How do you go back to the older ones? You just re-install them?

And where can I download the 5.11 drivers?
https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=27
Look for 'previous drivers'

SparkyDave

12th December 2005, 21:25

Changed ALL driver settings, no joy, changed settings in LFS, no joy, changed back to 5.11's fine, bottomline is 5.12's do not work well in LFS, regardless of "blame".

Dan.

sry to hear this Dan ,

This slowdown has not affected my system with 5.12 however I have a 9800 pro not an x8xx card , Dan is it PCIeX or AGP?

I take it you have tried with haze effect on/off and with aa at different settings ect ? do you use the ccc or just the display drivers ?
either way if you email ATI support they should look into it.

SD.

Vinc

12th December 2005, 22:48

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=27
Look for 'previous drivers'

Thanks.:)

danowat

13th December 2005, 06:52

Hi Dave,

Yes, I have tried pretty much every setting, I suspect it could be due to the ccc, as this is the first driver release I have used with it.
I get a max of 15fps with the 5.12's and 100+fps with the 5.11's, thats a HUGE difference just for a set of drivers.
I will speak to ATI support.

Cheers

Dan.

Strudders

13th December 2005, 08:36

lewt me know what ati support say :) i have the same problem with a x800 xt pe AGP. I've tryed it with both the CCC and the CP both result in the same problem.

danowat

13th December 2005, 10:01

I looked into contacting ATI support, and it looks as though you have to jump through hoops to contact them, TBH I'll just stick with the 5.11's and try the 5.13's when they come out, I also have an AGP X800, but mines a pro, glad I am not the only one with the problem though.

Dan.

nikimere

13th December 2005, 10:14

I think u just have to register: https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894

SladiVadi

13th December 2005, 10:28

I posted over at Beyond3D.com since there are ATI's driver developers around there. :)

danowat

13th December 2005, 11:07

Managed to jump through the required hoops and have left a ticket with ATI, don't hold your breath though.....

Dan.

AK-Chester

13th December 2005, 13:03

Installing a new driver is only recommended if you are having issues with your ATI product. Says it all, doesn't it? As always, the list of "Known Issues" is just as long as the "Issues Resolved" list (see release notes). ;)

danowat

13th December 2005, 13:31

Yeah, thats there standard text, bummer is it improves GTL and FS2004 quite considerably.
I got a reply from ATI, but just a standard canned blah blah setting blah blah, like I havent already tried that.....

Dan.

ORION

13th December 2005, 14:07

havent read the whole thread... maybe u are using transparent anti aliasing by default?
just an idea...

SladiVadi

13th December 2005, 20:40

Maybe it's a memory bug causing poor performance with 256MB cards? Xbitlabs wrote about it. :drevil:

danowat

13th December 2005, 21:03

Well, mine is a 256mb card, so it could be....

Dan.

BLooDMaN

14th December 2005, 01:42

Mine is 128

9600 SE

iHomer

16th December 2005, 11:41

Oh god. I've got the same problem as you boys. I own a x800XT radeon card and I hadn't played LFS for some days until today and I saw my fps fall to 15-20. I'm thinking that maybe it is due to the HT and Dual Core support that the new set of drivers have...

That made some of my games run clearly faster, but I got dissapointed with LFS's poor performance.

I hope 5.13 comes out soon and solves it.

Do you , those that have an x8xx series card, have a Dual Core or Hyper Threading processor?

Is this my first post? Yes, I think... :)

Dario from Spain

danowat

16th December 2005, 11:48

ATI maintain that ALL games and apps run better on 5.12's, I beg to differ, LFS performance SUCKS with them.

The only soloution is to go back to the 5.11's and lose the increase on your other games.

Dan.

Gabkicks

16th December 2005, 12:21

i didnt notice a decrease... but i wasnt paying attention to if the framerate dropped form 60fps. i have it limited to 60fps

i have a 9600XT w/ 256mb.

travbrad

17th December 2005, 01:06

I just wanted to say, I'm having this problem too. The 5.12 drivers give me a 5-15% performance boost in every other game, and im stuck at 25FPS in LFS

iHomer

17th December 2005, 01:48

But do you have dual core or hyper threading systems? That may be the problem. I own an HT pentium 4 Dario

danowat

17th December 2005, 07:22

Yes HT enabled here.

Dan.

travbrad

17th December 2005, 09:40

Yes, i have a dual core CPU. I even tried setting the affinity so that LFS only uses one core, and i still get 25FPS.

SparkyDave

17th December 2005, 15:35

Im pretty sure LFS will only use 1 core :scratchch
I am building a new system just after xmas with dual core amd64 4400 and a pciex x850pe , I would test this before but my other PC is AGP .
I doubt a 5.13 will be out for some weeks but the more people let ATI support know about this the better chance the next driver release will be better with LFS .

is anyone with a radeon 9xxx card having this 5.12 prob ?

SD.

Quiky

18th December 2005, 17:53

I doubt a 5.13 will be out for some weeks ATI is working with Microsoft on WHQL-certification, with a release ETA of 12/21.

BLooDMaN

22nd December 2005, 09:12

Well....just tried 5.13 and I still got the same problem.

Too bad because I was about to buy S2 but now I'll wait for a fix.

I won't go back to 5.10 because 5.12 and 5.13 gave me a HUGE performance boost in all games, except LFS.

danowat

22nd December 2005, 09:30

Pffff....is there any point me trying the 5.13's then.......
Regardless of whos "fault" it is, ATI or LFS's, there is going to come a point where an upgrade to the latest driver will be needed and if it aint sorted then LFS will have to be dropped of my system.
ATI maintain that EVERY game should get a performance boost with the new ones, and nearly every game does, except LFS, and I am not alone in this.

Dan.

Shotglass

22nd December 2005, 10:43

then contact atis support and see what theyve got to say about this

danowat

22nd December 2005, 10:59

I have, they say that every game or app they have tested shows an improvement, and to try some settings, which I have, its like a perpetual loop with ATI "support".

Dan.

SoloNijN

22nd December 2005, 14:20

5.13 will not be uit i quess, but 6.01 will ;)

Shotglass

22nd December 2005, 16:05

hmmm guess ill buy a nvidia after all ... good bye high quality af :/

vari

22nd December 2005, 19:18

850 XT here with 5.12 and no probs :shrug:

EDIT: I dislike the Control Center .NET version with a passion though. The "normal" one was no longer an option :F

Agent248

23rd December 2005, 04:01

AndroidXP

23rd December 2005, 07:34

So Agent248, do you have a dual core CPU?

SladiVadi

23rd December 2005, 07:39

So Agent248, do you have a dual core CPU?
naah, I wanted one too!

edit:
Oh well, FX-55 then :)

Agent248

23rd December 2005, 14:06

No, I have a P4 with hyperthreading only...

AndroidXP

23rd December 2005, 16:33

Just for testing, can you try to disable HT (in BIOS?) and run LFS with the 5.12 CATs again?

Doorman

24th December 2005, 11:41

Just for testing, can you try to disable HT (in BIOS?) and run LFS with the 5.12 CATs again?
I thought I'd give that a try.............Not to be recommended. PC took a good half hour to boot and another half hour to shut down. Frightened the life out of me! WTF have I done? Anyway, reset the BIOS to Turbo defaults and all is well again. Note to self: Forget 5.12-13 drivers until a definative reason has been discovered at least. Shame, because BF2 and GTL (sorry) are way better with 5.13. Hey Scawen, any ideas on this?
Merry Christmas drivers (but not ATI) :D

Squelch

24th December 2005, 12:07

This is just conjecture.

I have the same problems here too. I've recently installed a 9800 pro after my Ti4200 died. The performance was pretty good on old stock cat 4.x. Performance dropped once I went to 5.12. Noticing how sluggish the Command center was, I closed it down. This improved the performance a great deal. A friend of mine even went as far as setting up his card, then removing the CCC completely (you lose adjustment features after)

The CCC uses the .Net framework which is not the speediest of things. If it's polling the system for changes etc this may be where the problem lies.

I don't think this is just an LFS problem. Try disabling the CCC before LFS and see how you get on.

iHomer

24th December 2005, 15:11

No, I have a P4 with hyperthreading only... HT simulates two cores, so we could say you (and I) have dual core systems, for catalyst dirvers at least. Since CAT .12 HT and Dual Core are supported, and we have to think that HT "works the same" as DC, but Squelch is right, we should try playing LFS with CCC uninstalled. I think it's a good control panel, but I preferred the old CP, but this is not an option since .12 so this may also be the problem. I think it's due to dual core configurations, although LFS uses only one core this could be affected by CAT drivers. Merry christmas from Spain.

Squelch

24th December 2005, 17:29

Oops

Just to clarify. I meant my post was conjecture.

Everything that goes before is possibly valid. It is probably better however, to seek out problems in software before messing with bios settings. The CCC is very sluggish in my opinion and LFS runs smoother without it.

Merry Christmas everyone, and race well. :)

Doorman

24th December 2005, 17:51

Being a glutton for punishment I installed just the 5.13 drivers, these can be downloaded seperately. So guess what? :nod: Still the same. :shrug: I am DEFINATELY not pratting about with them any more!

iHomer

24th December 2005, 17:54

You mean it's going slow with the drivers only?

danowat

24th December 2005, 18:06

Just the plain driver install without any of the twiddly bits produces the same result, there is a conflict between the latest ATI drivers (infact the latest 2 revisions) and LFS, pure and simple, every other piece of software I own, and I own a LOT, gets better performance except LFS.
Well, I am sticking to the 5.11's for now, hopefully someone somewhere cleverer than me will discover why this is.

Dan.

The Devil Is A Squirrel

27th December 2005, 13:57

Have an X800XT and since I switched driver, i got the exact same issues as you guys, 5.12 and 5.13 doesn't work at all...

I have tried different FSAA, Adaptive AA, Anisotropic, etc, etc setting without any luck, seem to be something weird with those driver...

Too bad, I'm going back to 5.11...

The same here, with other games no problem...only with LFS. I've tested on 3 fresh windows installations....

My system:
AMD X2
ATI GTO2 256mb (cat. 5.13)
2gb ram
3x samsung spinpoint

Scawen

27th December 2005, 14:20

I hope most of you guys have reported it to ATI. They won't know about the problem unless you tell them, and i guess they won't take it seriously if they only hear it from a couple of people.

Remember, one thing about LFS is it's using DirectX 8.1 - have you tried any other DirectX 8.1 games? I think most new games are using DirectX 9. Of course, i have absolutely no idea if it's anything to do with the version of Direct X. But perhaps their main focus would be DX 9 and they'd just run a quick test to make sure that older versions of DX still worked ok.

They really need to run LFS in a debug version of their drivers. to see where the problem lies. There's not much i can do other than make sure LFS doesn't cause any Direct X errors - and i'm always in debug mode when i'm developing, to make sure there aren't any. So i'm pretty sure the problem is in the drivers.

Gabkicks

27th December 2005, 14:30

we cant submit anything to ATi untill january 1st. (they are off for the holidays and have disabled the ability to send messeges to tech-support)
i'm gonna try and see if i can contact someone who works at ati. if you guys know anyone then pls try. :shrug:

danowat

27th December 2005, 15:00

Anyone know how it would be possible to send a "consolidated" report to ATI?, sending support request's from one person doesnt seem to make any impact, they just send you round and round in circles.
Maybe if we can somehow do that?, failing that, maybe a support request from the games developer might help?.

Dan.

The Devil Is A Squirrel

27th December 2005, 16:51

Scawen

27th December 2005, 18:03

I've written to my ATI contact. Obviously i don't know when he is back from holidays or whatever. Hopefully he'll be able to contact the driver developers. Don't let that stop you making sure ATI knows about it. It's actually between you and ATI - nothing to do with me - it's their duty to make sure their drivers work properly, and also to investigate, when you have bought their hardware.

I'm not happy to hear the report that they simply give you the brush off saying "all games work better with the new drivers". That's not acceptable, unless they ran a test to disprove your report. Anyway i'm not making judgements, as i said i've written my mail. We'll see what happens.

Doorman

27th December 2005, 18:17

I've written to my ATI contact.................... I've written my mail. We'll see what happens.
I'm pretty confident that you'll get an answer. It's not what you know, it's who you know. :thumb: Top man Scawen.

The Devil Is A Squirrel

27th December 2005, 18:21

I've written to my ATI contact. Obviously i don't know when he is back from holidays or whatever. Hopefully he'll be able to contact the driver developers.

Thanks Scawen! I'll write to ATI too.

danowat

27th December 2005, 18:48

travbrad

28th December 2005, 01:12

Can someone link me to the ATI bug reporting? I'm having trouble finding on their site.

Just noticed the 5.13s are out, hopefully these will fix the problem, downloading now.

Gabkicks

28th December 2005, 04:44

danowat

28th December 2005, 08:51

Can someone link me to the ATI bug reporting? I'm having trouble finding on their site.

Just noticed the 5.13s are out, hopefully these will fix the problem, downloading now.

No, they wont, the 5.13's show the same performance hit as the 5.12 did.

Dan.

SparkyDave

28th December 2005, 19:29

Ive just built my xmas pressie (well some of it was ;)) including an x850 PCIex card and have the same low fps issues with cat 5.12 no probs with 5.11 what so ever . 3D Mard 2001 (dx8.1) shows increase by 2500 points with newer driver .
When running LFS with new driver testing , I noticed in options / Graphics with HW vertex shading on the fps takes an even bigger hit if "simple track" is set to anything other than off

Ive also been reading the forums at www.rage3d.com (http://www.rage3d.com) as I know they are read by some of the driver team at ATI and I will be posting about this prob there as soon as I have some more time :) .
I will be testing omega 5.12's this evening and will report back if I find they work any better.
EDIT : Omega drivers have the same bug :(
SD

Gabkicks

28th December 2005, 21:01

the Team ATi guys sent the messege in for me.:) so... thats at least 2 ATi people that had have of our problem?

SparkyDave

29th December 2005, 15:48

Can someone link me to the ATI bug reporting? I'm having trouble finding on their site.

Just noticed the 5.13s are out, hopefully these will fix the problem, downloading now.

report ATI driver issues here http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web

everyone please if you have this exact problem report it , and we will get a fixed driver sooner ;)

SD.

iHomer

29th December 2005, 20:07

Hi, I've just sent that form to ATI filled up completely. How many of you have done the same? :)

wheel4hummer

29th December 2005, 20:16

I use omega drivers. :shrug:

travbrad

29th December 2005, 20:21

^ I tried the omega drivers, and they had the same horrible performance...

Hi, I've just sent that form to ATI filled up completely. How many of you have done the same?

I just did :)

danowat

29th December 2005, 20:56

Doorman

29th December 2005, 21:13

Yep

iHomer

29th December 2005, 21:21

Good, I hope things keep moving on so we can finally impulse ATI to fix that damn issue :) If ATI successes to fix the problem... whenever they do... I will finally buy the game. I've finally earnt some money this christmas, losing my holydays but I've got something to live with so...

SparkyDave

29th December 2005, 22:32

some news here not all good tho

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33705231&page=91

SD.

SlimLine

31st December 2005, 05:46

Hey guys, I too just bought a x850xt 256 meg AGP. Same crap since 5.12's. I have tried everything. I also have HT enabled w/ my 3.0c. Hopefully we can resolve this. I will visit some of those links.

Scawen

4th January 2006, 21:26

I've made a special poll about this to gather information - please go over there and let us know which cards do or don't suffer from this problem.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4216

Scawen

6th January 2006, 11:42

If you have a few minutes spare, please can you try the new drivers (the ones that cause your slowdown) but with mirrors switched off. It's a hunch we need to check out - if the slowdown is related to drawing the mirror texture. We'll know that's the case if the new and old drivers perform just the same as each other when mirrors are off.

We need the results of that test over in the other thread : http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=4216

southamptonfc

10th January 2006, 10:45

I have tried turning mirrors off. Unfortunately it did not fix the problem

I was getting 130 fps+ with 5.11 drivers, with 5.13 I get 15-20fps!

I have a x800 XL 256MB AGP. I have opened a ticket with ATI, I urge everyone to do so too. I just wish there was a severity rating that I could set to critical :)

cohagen

16th January 2006, 04:16

report ATI driver issues here http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web

everyone please if you have this exact problem report it , and we will get a fixed driver sooner ;)

SD.
support form filled out... i'm running x800 xt and am having same problem.

i don't know why everyone is so ready to jump down either companies throat. the bug has not been found yet... it's either ATI or Live for Speed. time will tell. hopefully we get a fix soon.

danowat

16th January 2006, 06:33

support form filled out... i'm running x800 xt and am having same problem.

i don't know why everyone is so ready to jump down either companies throat. the bug has not been found yet... it's either ATI or Live for Speed. time will tell. hopefully we get a fix soon.

Errr.....if you havent been following it, there is another thread in the general section, it has been identified as a problem with the ATI driver, infact, someone from ATI has posted in that thread, it will be fixed in the 6.2/6.3's apparently, but I am hoping for a hotfix before then.

Dan,

cohagen

18th January 2006, 16:55

Errr.....if you havent been following it, there is another thread in the general section, it has been identified as a problem with the ATI driver, infact, someone from ATI has posted in that thread, it will be fixed in the 6.2/6.3's apparently, but I am hoping for a hotfix before then.

Dan,
Thanks Dan for the info. Crossing my fingers for a fix because I need to do some driving!

iHomer

19th January 2006, 00:05

Ati 6.1 drivers ready for download but there is not a single pointing to the LFS problem, not under the fixed issues and not in the known issues...

I'm looking forward to seeing it somewhere (fixed or not) in the 6.2 release notes.

MadMigMR2

27th January 2006, 15:01

One more with this problem :(

Very poor FPS with my Ati X800 XT PE :shrug:

My system is also HT enabled
P4 3.0Ghz HT FSB800 512k L2 Cache
Msi 865PE Neo2 FIS2R
4x512 Kingston

Gabkicks

27th January 2006, 16:13

it runs ok for me. it almost never goes below 60fps. I have an X800GTO agp (flashed to x800xl 16 pipes :) ) running with fastwrite and fastread on. i'm using the latest drivers. but i used the old cp instead of the new one.

southamptonfc

28th January 2006, 22:54

6.1 doesn't fix the problem for me.

I've had this response from ATI after raising a ticket:

Solution: We have seen this issue in our labs and it will be fixed
in a future driver release. In the meantime, please use Catalyst 5.11.

I will ask them which future version of the drivers they expect to include a fix for this problem, but everyone who has this problem should raise a ticket, hopefully it will bump it up in their priority list.

https://support.ati.com/ics/

SparkyDave

28th January 2006, 23:11

Its expeted in 6.2 ( fix)
release date should be in about 12 days . ;)

SD.

danowat

29th January 2006, 07:58

Yeah, and in the meantime I have had to drop back to the 5.11's AGAIN just for the ESL tomorrow night.

Dan,

Gabkicks

9th February 2006, 22:35

http://www.ati.com/
new drivers out today. did they fix the problem for you guys>?

Doorman

10th February 2006, 12:57

http://www.ati.com/
new drivers out today. did they fix the problem for you guys>?

100%. Back to 85-95 fps and not before time!

danowat

10th February 2006, 13:11

Yep, problem solved here.

Dan,

iNfa-ReD

11th February 2006, 14:17

travbrad

13th February 2006, 04:51

Hooray, finally it's fixed. I still think they could have at least released a hotfix or something instead of making us wait 2-3 months :/

southamptonfc

14th February 2006, 16:28

So it's fixed in 6.2??

I have been having a 'discussion' with ATI support about this as it is not mentioned in the release notes as being fixed or as a known issue.

Have a look:

Me:
I have seen that the Cat 6.2 release notes do not mention this problem as fixed or as a known issue.

Please can you tell me if 6.2 has fixed this problem or which future version you expect will.

Them:
Things like this usually take a while to address with driver updates. It should be soon but I don't think that it is in 6.2 or it would have said in the release notes.

Errrr if this really is fixed in 6.2 then GREAT!! but it would be slightly worrying too :)

Jakg

14th February 2006, 16:31

does anybody know the eta on the 6.2 omega's?

southamptonfc

15th February 2006, 16:27

I have tried the 6.2 drivers. They do improve the framerate hugely, but not back fully to 5.11 speeds and I'm not toally satisfied with that.

josepmaria

17th February 2006, 08:36

I have tried the 6.2 drivers. They do improve the framerate hugely, but not back fully to 5.11 speeds and I'm not toally satisfied with that.

I agree :(:(:(

Gabkicks

8th March 2006, 19:16

catalyst 6.3 drivers just came out :) i havent installed them myself yet

http://www.ati.com/

Hera2005

9th March 2006, 14:17

I cant download that patch 6.3!!! where do i have to click to DOWNLOAD ??? on ATI site..

Catalyst 6.3 Windows XP - Driver Download (but no place to click)????
help me people:(

Gabkicks

9th March 2006, 14:26

https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=27

danowat

9th March 2006, 14:33

I haven't tried em yet, anyone tried them with LFS?, I am always a little bit concerned now after the previous ATI driver debacle.

Dan,

Hera2005

9th March 2006, 14:58

GUYS.. the page does not have place to click to download!!

ohh mannnnn

Hera2005

9th March 2006, 14:58

GUYS.. the page does not have place to click to download!!

ohh mannnnn

danowat

9th March 2006, 15:06

Chill out man, you need to select XP drivers, radeon, the 6.3 downloads

Dan,

Gabkicks

9th March 2006, 15:06

lol hera
IQ seems a tiny bit higher to me on my x800gto. like things look a bit more vibrant and detailed. i could be imagining it though.
https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/6-3_xp-2k_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_30895.exe

Hera2005

9th March 2006, 15:17

IS THAT one??? about the other link. it no works!!! :schwitz:

Catalyst Control Center PackageDownload (https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/6-3_xp-2k_dd_ccc_wdm_enu_30895.exe)
2 of 334.303/08/06Display and WDM Drivers included in this bundle

d6nn

25th March 2006, 16:25

my cards performance is better with older drivers too

RedStarArmy

27th March 2006, 18:39

is the 6.3 better/worse or the same as the 5.11s I only started playing LFS with the 6.3s and if that ones worse, where can i download the 5.11s from? cant find them anywhere. :shrug:

Renku

27th March 2006, 21:15

...where can i download the 5.11s from? cant find them anywhere. :shrug:
I cannot link directly, but..

danowat

28th March 2006, 05:27

is the 6.3 better/worse or the same as the 5.11s I only started playing LFS with the 6.3s and if that ones worse, where can i download the 5.11s from? cant find them anywhere. :shrug:
6.3's are fine :thumb:

Dan,

Liquid Li0n

15th April 2006, 12:49

Got the same problems as you guys all have, I'm happy I found this thread. I'm going to dl the 6.3 drives and see what it gets.

I have a ATI Radeon 9800 XT 128mb and have 5.13 catalyst version with makes that I have 15fps instead of +100

Need For Speed and Battlefield was perfect with it, LFS wasn't. I hope everything is solved and all works great again.

6.3 Here I come!

EDIT: I see they already have 6.4, is there someone who tested those already? Otherwise I let you know

Liquid Li0n

15th April 2006, 13:12

downloaded the latest 6.4 drivers and LFS works perfect again. +100 - 130 fps

Zsolt Nagy

22nd April 2006, 07:34

I have a Gigabyte RADEON 9600 PRO and use the latest 6.4 Catalyst driver from yesterday. My previous driver was probably above 5.11. I'm satisfied with the performance, but since the new patch has come out, my game regularly freezes. After a game freeze, the ATI card resets itself in 10 seconds (VPU recover feature).

Before the latest LFS patch came out, I also had such game crashes, but they were very rare, and only occured with the FOX cars (after driving 2 or more hours). Now I can rarely complete a lap.

I have experimented with
- switching off my firewall completely and even running the program offline ;
- altering Catalyst settings and LFS graphics settings,
but nothing has worked so far.

Have you had similar problems with ATI, requiring your video card to reset itself?

Scawen

22nd April 2006, 07:57

It sounds like your card may be overheating? I don't know much about hardware but I do hear people talking a lot about overheating causing freezes.

First question : Is your graphics card overclocked? I guess not because you would have switched that off as a test.

Second question : How's the cooling? Is the fan and heat sink on the graphics card covered in dust? You can clean it by holding the fan steady with a match and blasting air at it from a can of compressed air. Apparently you must not use a vacuum cleaner because it can zap your chips with static electricity.

Good luck! :)

Fox 2

22nd April 2006, 10:32

I have 1600 Pro 256mb from Sapphire and exactly same problem with drivers. With any of 6.x series - Video crashes very often.Cooling system is ok, no overclock. Probably some wrong default settings for 6.x drivers. Works fine with 5.13.

Zsolt Nagy

22nd April 2006, 13:02

No, I never overclock video cards.

First I thought that it's due to overheating. Before the patch, sometimes the game crashed after driving the FOX car for 1 or 2 hours. When I attended league races, I even cooled the video card manually. There's no special cooler attached to the card, only the right side panel of the computer is taken off so that more clean air gets in the inside of the computer.

Overheating was never a problem though in any applications.

Now that the game has been patched, I can hardly finish a lap with any car! I doubt that it's due to overheating reasons. I will try to install version 5.11 of the radeon driver.

Zsolt Nagy

22nd April 2006, 18:05

For ATI users: I have downloaded and installed Catalyst version 5.11 and the game seems to work fine so far. I have raced for around 1 hour, which is a huge improvement compared to crashing in every lap. If the game freezes with this driver too, I will send a message here.

It is a good compromise to use version 5.11 drivers until the problem is fixed.

Zsolt Nagy

22nd April 2006, 18:25

The game froze again with the 5.11 Catalyst drivers too, while the RADEON 9600 PRO was not even warm.

I will drive with a GeForce2 MX 400 until the bug is fixed.

Yisc[NL]

22nd April 2006, 18:30

No problems for me with the 6.4 driver on my Ati X850XT.
Framerate has gone up since the patch to about 145 fps.
Wish my laptimes improved as much as my fps ;-)

Fox 2

22nd April 2006, 18:45

Zsolt Nagy, what's about other games? Seems like old drivers can not crash longer than new ones.. I'll try the Omega driver - mb this will help =\

Zsolt Nagy

22nd April 2006, 19:27

I don't have any problems with other games. On a bug report forum thread, It's clear that I am not the only one who has this problem.

moriaty

24th April 2006, 00:44

I have ati 9800pr, 1024mb dual, 2,8p4 HT and i get in every settings around 20fps. It goes to maybe 25fps in extra low settings. The drivers are catalyst 6.4 from 21.2.2006. Any idea how to fix it. I have no problem in any other game. In fact before 6.4 i had very old drivers because i recently reinstalled xppro and forgot to put new ati drivers, and when i did finally (after couple months) every game has speed up. Only LFS didnt.
What now?

throwduncan

5th May 2006, 17:39

im using a lousy graphic card(ati radeon xpress200 hypermemory up to 128mb of vid memory), 256 mb ram and 6.4 catalyst drivers and im getting the same fps as him. tips on which graphic card to buy now?? im kinda confused now with the fps issue.

DEVIL 007

5th May 2006, 17:47

Hi all,
You all probably checked your GPU temp and you got normal temp like no overheating but the card can be still overheating.
You forgot on something important...the memory on your graphic card can overahet as well!!!

And sometimes to very poor performance you see with a lot of cars around or at start,,,,its your CPU which is slow.

Still its really weird as I read thru this thread that ATI has somehow buggy drivers.The reason I didnt decided to go for ATI is the .NET CCC.The most awfull thing which I ever saw.

ORION

5th May 2006, 18:28

You dont have to install the CCC, I havent done this on my notebook (Im not crazy am I :P)

To get back to those crashes: What happens when you limit the FPS drastically? This will avoid overheating in almost all cases. Also, be sure that no kind of anti aliasing or anisotropic filtering is enabled in the control panel.
Another reason for crashes could be fast writes or write combinig. You could try to set to AGP 4x - there is no noticable performance loss compared to 8x.

Raz0r

14th May 2006, 15:29

Well I have just got 6.4 and all the writing is blurred cannot read at all, yet BF2 is sound and this is on a 9250! So I am going to try 5.11!

RedStarArmy

16th May 2006, 02:39

When I attended league races, I even cooled the video card manually. There's no special cooler attached to the card, only the right side panel of the computer is taken off so that more clean air gets in the inside of the computer.

That doesnt help, even makes things worse...A case is designed with 2 sides for a reason. The fans inside keep a steady flow of air going in the case, if you takeoff a side you'll disrupt that flow and actually make the cooling worse. if you want better cooling get better case fans or a better case.

Yisc[NL]

25th May 2006, 16:39

Downloaded and installed catalist 6.5 today, played this afternoon and found no problems at all. I've got an Ati Radeon X850XT.

aprisma

4th June 2006, 00:08

Hello!

I read most of the hints here and would have no problem to use older drivers.

So I downloaded the Omega Driver 2.6.83 (Catalyst 5.11). What happened. I still have 4-5 Frames when the Race starts but NOW I have 6-7 Frames for the whole time of the whole game.

Before I had the problem that I have 4-6 Frames for about 1 Minute. Now I have this problem for ever :schwitz: :schwitz:

So where is the problem???

cheers, Juergen

DEVIL 007

4th June 2006, 00:11

GT Touring

4th June 2006, 02:00

i have wlked away from the ATi drivers because of there inconsistant behaivior for now.
I a have tried NGO (ngohq.com) they have ATi drivers and Nvidia (and this stuff is magic! for LFS) a crispness you have never seen before. NGO ATi optimized driver v 1.6.4

my other apps run great too. LFS, GTL, GPL, Heat, N2K3, more detail than before and such...
i recommend much:thumb:

aprisma

4th June 2006, 08:40

Ok I set up my whole system new today.

I tried with Omega (Catalyst 5.11) even worse 6-7 Frames/s

Now I try this new. If it dont help I make a new thread for my problems with ALL the details cause then it must be more than a generally problem ??

cheers, Juergen

aprisma

4th June 2006, 09:06

Thanx man!

THIS DRIVER IS GREAT!

NGO for President !!!!!!!!!!!!!

30 Frames at Start and 80 and more during the race!

PLEASE MAKE THE POST WITH OF GT TURING with THE LINK STICKY!!!!!

micha1980de

4th June 2006, 09:11

tried 6.1??

using since i can't remember anymore, without any problems... x700pro.

regards

GT Touring

4th June 2006, 14:07

Glad you like it- i found i like 2 days beore and i have never raced better- with crispness and steady frame rates you do drive better=smoother and lap times have dropped-good drivers make a good driver

siLc

23rd June 2006, 15:42

Today I bought ATI Radeon 9600 Pro and I expected to get more fps than with nVidia GeForce FX 5200 there weren`t no change. Can somebody give me links or smth to get the newest and the best drivers. I`m a real noob.:shrug:

I only have 45 fps on clear track and 11 fps with full grid

Marty502

28th June 2006, 00:48

TDSyco

28th June 2006, 12:24

Well, perhaps not the Problem of you all, but i noticed a strange behavour with LFS, too.
When i switch on AA, LFS will just get unplayable in Window-Mode.
The Screen fills from top down just line for line, the higher i set AA the slower it goes.
But as soon as i switch to fullscreen, it runs ok.
Without AA everything runs well, in Fullscreen- as well as in Window-Mode.
I got this behavour after i reinstalled Windows some Month ago. No Hardware changed, just reinstalled Windows. Before that i could run LFS with 8xAA in Window-Mode, now its not playable.
Thats no big deal for me because i allways Race in Fullscreen, but sometimes you just want to check IRC or something between Races and hit F4 ...
Its so funny because i just installed all drivers as i used before, but it behaves different :)

Oh well, my Hardware: Athlon64 3200+, 1GB Ram, Radeon9800Pro
but because it run well with same Hardware before Windows-Reinstallation I dont think its something with that (As well as the Fact that without AA everything runs fine, too.)
Oh yes, with AA the CPU is 99% used by LFS in Window-Mode, but only 40-70% in Fullscreen or Window-Mode without AA.

Perhaps someone knows this Problem?

siLc

28th June 2006, 19:47

What processor do you have? :)

Celeron 2400+, 768mb RAM

siLc

3rd July 2006, 20:43

Can anyone help me?
:shrug:

Gabkicks

3rd July 2006, 22:21

try searching http://www.ocforums.com/
... i think someone said that 5.9 were best for 9600pro but i cant remember..

i do know for sure that my x800gto does not like the 6.6 drivers... i use 6.5 based omega drivers.

siLc

4th July 2006, 11:44

RJC_pt

4th July 2006, 22:03

Celeron 2400+, 768mb RAM

I would say that your problem is cpu based, lfs is very cpu demanding and whatever video card you would have you would allaways have poor fps performance... not only in lfs anyway, that cpu is a botleneck to your system.

I had one celeron 2000 years ago... even in s1 i had very few fps.....
My advice, get a used p4...