digi speedo and realism?

[Rick.]

You're going to get complaints when something goes away... the digi speed I will miss. I don't see the point in removing it for realism.

I say that because the track map isn't realistic either but I find it extremely useful especially in avoiding traffic after a spin etc. So will that eventually go away too? I sure hope not.

[garph]

Already been/being talked about dude, to death...and then some.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35871

Just one of the many, many, many...etc, threads.

[ajp71]

I say that because the track map isn't realistic either but I find it extremely useful especially in avoiding traffic after a spin etc. So will that eventually go away too? I sure hope not.

I sure hope so ;)

Although I would like a quick map to be available on a button press to let you see if the immediate track was clear for leaving the pits or recovering (ie. not something that draws the whole track or that is intended to be used whilst racing).

[shadow2kx]

The digit speedo miss me too :(

The point i don't get is: Why just don't let the choice to the user? A digital speedo is not an advandage or a disadvantage against the other drivers. And if you were driving in a real car, these kind of modification can be done by youreself if you wanted to. Moreover, more and more car (normal car, rather cheap, not only high price's car) can been found with a digital speedo. So i realy don't understand why is the removal of the digital speedo a major improvement to get closer to the reality since these kind of speedo are aviable in the reality . . .

I sure hope so ;)

Although I would like a quick map to be available on a button press to let you see if the immediate track was clear for leaving the pits or recovering (ie. not something that draws the whole track or that is intended to be used whilst racing).

Here again: Why not just give the opportunity to the user to define if he rather want the mini map to be displayed all the time or not.
It's also like the virtual mirrors and a lot of other things like moving the head. Why not removing the button to turn the head? If you want to have this feature you should buy a Track Ir to be "close to the reality" ...

[ATC Quicksilver]

Hang on a minute, I still have a digital speedo and I am using patch Y. Do you mean in the car cockpits, rather than the HUD? Because if that is the case then turn on the virtual speedo.

[RacerAsh3]

Hang on a minute, I still have a digital speedo and I am using patch Y. Do you mean in the car cockpits, rather than the HUD? Because if that is the case then turn on the virtual speedo.

What car though?

The Road cars dont have it, but the FZR/XRR have.

[ATC Quicksilver]

Oh right, so whats the complaint again? The road cars are too slow to accidently break pit speed limits, and you don't need to know your speed while racing anyway.

[MAGGOT]

In regards to the track map, a comprimize would be to have a paper taped to the steering wheel with the track map on it (and possibly turn numbers/names, preferred gear, etc) as seen in many real race cars.

[shadow2kx]

In regards to the track map, a comprimize would be to have a paper taped to the steering wheel with the track map on it (and possibly turn numbers/names, preferred gear, etc) as seen in many real race cars.

Or let the damn user have a choice! Just a button in the options. Easy and efficient. Everybody have his preferances and in the real life you have choice ...

[Electrik Kar]

So i realy don't understand why is the removal of the digital speedo a major improvement to get closer to the reality since these kind of speedo are aviable in the reality . . .


I reckon everyone should just hold their breath until we see what's been planned with the interiors update, which will most probably be revealed sometime shortly after the holidays. Many interiors are being updated and that may mean improvements to the readability of gauges.

Also, I'm sure it won't be too hard for someone to make a digital speedo mod along the lines of the analogue gauge mod we have now, if there's enough support for it down the road. Devs don't need to do everything..

[shadow2kx]

I reckon everyone should just hold their breath until we see what's been planned with the interiors update, which will most probably be revealed sometime shortly after the holidays. Many interiors are being updated and that may mean improvements to the readability of gauges.

Also, I'm sure it won't be too hard for someone to make a digital speedo mod along the lines of the analogue gauge mod we have now, if there's enough support for it down the road. Devs don't need to do everything..

Yes wait and see for the interiors. I realy hope the readability of the tacho will improve. The dev already increased the size of the font. It helped a bit.

But I don't agree with you when you say "Make a mod". I don't see the point to make a mod when the feature is already embded into the application.

[Electrik Kar]

I'm just saying that it's probably do-able, if people really want their digi speedos. The updating of the interiors might simply mean that the way we could choose before whether we wanted digital or analogue guages is no longer possible, or might look funny, or whatever. That's what I meant by waiting.

[Drunken Predator]

Personally i dont care as long as i got cauges that i can see and read. :)

[Patussay]

im ok without the digital speedo, i didn't even used it... but i dont get the point on the peeople opposing to have it AS AN OPTION.
If you don't like the digital speedo and preferr more realism you can use the other and there you go, if you dont like the map, press shft+f and there you go... Why dont let the other people have what they want, at least in the speedo thing i dont see any advantage in none of them, so i really cant get it at all. Specially when there is a virtual speedo wich is far more unrealistic than the digital one.
Really... is just a question

I'll just wait anyway, the game is still on development so maybe this gets better and we can see it properly. By now with the fixed, bigger speedo at least i know where the 80 KPH mark is, for the pitlane... is all what i need, i don't really use the speedo for racing

[_AniMuS__]

Also, I'm sure it won't be too hard for someone to make a digital speedo mod along the lines of the analogue gauge mod we have now, if there's enough support for it down the road. Devs don't need to do everything..

Maybe it has already been done :thumb::nod:;) The question is whether its considered a mod or a cheat.

[Drunken Predator]

How about a button to zoom to the cauges? so that the view kinda moves closer.. as the real cauges are too small (dont netkar have such feature?), and i only use 80 FOV, but the damn screen is too small and far away.

[Electrik Kar]

There are many problems with the way we view information in the game at present. I guess that's what happens when you try to squeeze the world into the dimensions of a two dimensional rectangle :thumb:

I'd be really happy if Scawen could come up with an elegent solution to this stuff which keeps people happy. I'd personally love a button press function which lets you scroll the mouse around the cockpit, as you find in many flight sims. That seems like a natural way to solve the problem of look angles and instrument readouts at low FOVs and the like, doing away with arbitrary fixed views. That makes sense to me as a mouse user, but I'm fairly confident that if people can type while using a wheel, grabbing the mouse to look around shouldn't be too hard either.. but I've no experience in that domain :schwitz: I just don't like the way the virtual driver can only look right/left but not up/down and at which ever angle he prefers, within natural limits. It feels very artificially constraining and quick hackish..

[JTbo]

Missing of digital speedo will teach you to drive properly, not playing game of what number I should have in this corner :tilt:

Digitalspeedo option would be fine by me if it would be realistic in look and size, not that huge thing in dashboard as it will give unrealistic and unfair advantage when pitting, even it is not by much, but still that kind of stuff I would like to disappear from game.

Btw, what minimap? In Y I have not had that map on, I turn my head to see if there are someone coming.

[thisnameistaken]

I used to use the digital speedo in every car and rely on it quite a lot, but I'm glad it's gone. The road cars look much better without it, and I think when I get used to the dial it will be more useful than the digi anyway, because it gives an impression of acceleration/deceleration as well as speed.

[shadow2kx]

Missing of digital speedo will teach you to drive properly, not playing game of what number I should have in this corner :tilt:

- Does people who have a digital speedo drives better than people with analogic speedo irl & in the game? I'm not sure that it realy matter ...
- It has been said that the speed displayed on the digital speedo are only indicatifs becasue the speed is calculated on the wheelspin so the digital speedo is as approximative as the analogue one. So "playing game of what number i should have in the corner" is meanless.

[xaotik]

I'd personally love a button press function which lets you scroll the mouse around the cockpit, as you find in many flight sims.

I'm pretty sure that with some smart scripting you can make a toggle button for this. One script to bind the mouse axis to the look view and change the toggle key to run the second script which would unbind the mouse axis. Sadly I don't think it could be done to work while the button is pressed and it can only function as a toggle.

I just don't like the way the virtual driver can only look right/left but not up/down and at which ever angle he prefers, within natural limits. It feels very artificially constraining and quick hackish..

Well, for the quick glances required during races I find it's great. The distances and time to react in a racing sim vs a flight sim are quite different. The other solution, which flight simmers swear by, is headtracking gear like trackIR and such.

[psychometalist]

How about a button to zoom to the cauges? so that the view kinda moves closer..

That will be again unrealistic IMO. Imagine a racer moving his head to see the gauges, would be silly (and impossible).

I think a digital speedo (or a bigger speedo) popping in pitlane would be a better solution.

[shadow2kx]

That will be again unrealistic IMO. Imagine a racer moving his head to see the gauges, would be silly (and impossible).

I think a digital speedo (or a bigger speedo) popping in pitlane would be a better solution.

Unrealistic to move the head up and down? Why would the move left and move right be more realistic? IRL you can move your head in 6 dof (did you ever tryed?).

Here again, to have an accurate and realistic modelisation of the head move you should use a track ir. But does it mean that you must remove the old way to do it (pressing buttons) ??? I don't think so, just let the user have the choice!

[Drunken Predator]

That will be again unrealistic IMO. Imagine a racer moving his head to see the gauges, would be silly (and impossible).

I think a digital speedo (or a bigger speedo) popping in pitlane would be a better solution.

Well at least the funking racer can see the damn cauges in the first place.. always someone moaning about realism.. its realistic to see the damn cauges and what they say in the first place! pffffft!

Yes, im going to rant mode.. thanks to wine.. and frustrasion of the silly argument whats realistic and whats not.. :P

[bbman]

You can bring the digital speedo in roadcars back, but keep it realistic at the same time: update the displayed speed every 2 seconds... Because THAT'S how slow they are!

Stock digital speedometers are USELESS, an analogue speedo is just better...

[xaotik]

update the displayed speed every 2 seconds... Because THAT'S how slow they are!

Seriously?
Even the cheap digital speedometers I got on my bicycles are faster than that...

[shadow2kx]

You can bring the digital speedo in roadcars back, but keep it realistic at the same time: update the displayed speed every 2 seconds... Because THAT'S how slow they are!

That would be a solution. A real (realistic, for the realistic's fan) digital speedo.


Stock digital speedometers are USELESS, an analogue speedo is just better...

Fo you maybe. Everybody have his preferances.

[JTbo]

Seriously?
Even the cheap digital speedometers I got on my bicycles are faster than that...
I think 0.5 to 1 second is more appropriate guestimate, depends a bit from which kind of speedo it is.

[psychometalist]

Unrealistic to move the head up and down? Why would the move left and move right be more realistic? IRL you can move your head in 6 dof (did you ever tryed?).


I think I'm misunderstood (I hate my lack of english sometimes.)

What I meant was this. Zooming into the gauges. A racer can't move forward to zoom into the gauges afaik (because of the seatbelt for ex.)

edit: and I'm not a moaner for realism, that's what the devs do (I mean making it more realistic). I just try to adapt myself to the game. I loved digital speedos, used them a lot.

[Drunken Predator]

I think I'm misunderstood (I hate my lack of english sometimes.)

What I meant was this. Zooming into the gauges. A racer can't move forward to zoom into the gauges afaik (because of the seatbelt for ex.)

edit: and I'm not a moaner for realism, that's what the devs do (I mean making it more realistic). I just try to adapt myself to the game. I loved digital speedos, used them a lot.

Wiping the screen might help ya see cauges more better :D:fence:

[Rick.]

I sure hope so ;)

Although I would like a quick map to be available on a button press to let you see if the immediate track was clear for leaving the pits or recovering (ie. not something that draws the whole track or that is intended to be used whilst racing).

Oy. I'm for realism but some things just make it more fun, and I like options. For me I like to know where people are on the field, I don't have a spotter or crew to talk to so the map makes up for that. Take it away when I've got a voice recognition driven AI crew, but not till then!


Keep in goodies that don't give and advantage, don't take them out for "realism". If you go down that path, take out chat, restarts etc. It's a computer, not the real thing, keep in what makes it fun and no competitive advantage. I play cause it's fun!

[bbman]

Seriously?
Even the cheap digital speedometers I got on my bicycles are faster than that...

At least the ones I were in... Maybe the expensive Mercs got a better display now, but then, none of LfS' cars are Mercs...

[JTbo]

Oy. I'm for realism but some things just make it more fun, and I like options. For me I like to know where people are on the field, I don't have a spotter or crew to talk to so the map makes up for that. Take it away when I've got a voice recognition driven AI crew, but not till then!


Keep in goodies that don't give and advantage, don't take them out for "realism". If you go down that path, take out chat, restarts etc. It's a computer, not the real thing, keep in what makes it fun and no competitive advantage. I play cause it's fun!

When I'm on track IRL there is no floating map that tells where others are and certainly not any pitcrew or spotters either, that is how I like it to be in LFS too.

Maybe we could have hardcore immersion mode as server side option where all silly nonsense is not allowed and even cars won't disappear, but are just towed to side of track

Chat of course should be limited to pits only, but there could be some sort of radio system instead of chatting :scratchch

[Electrik Kar]

I'm pretty sure that with some smart scripting you can make a toggle button for this. One script to bind the mouse axis to the look view and change the toggle key to run the second script which would unbind the mouse axis. Sadly I don't think it could be done to work while the button is pressed and it can only function as a toggle.



Well, for the quick glances required during races I find it's great. The distances and time to react in a racing sim vs a flight sim are quite different. The other solution, which flight simmers swear by, is headtracking gear like trackIR and such.

Yeah. Probably I'm just too accustomed to the freedom of movement offered by FPS convention and the like. For the most part the current look function in LFS works fine, I admit.

Track IR is another solution as you say, or I've heard you can also set up a webcam to track head movement. Might check that out sometime (a bit cheaper, since we've already got a cam). PS, anyone want to work on a script along the lines of Xaotics' suggestion above? :shy:

[xaotik]

Track IR is another solution as you say, or I've heard you can also set up a webcam to track head movement. Might check that out sometime (a bit cheaper, since we've already got a cam). PS, anyone want to work on a script along the lines of Xaotics' suggestion above? :shy:

That freetrack thing does look like fun - if only for the amusement value of wearing a few LEDs on one's head.

You know - I've been tinkering a while with the script system and I think I just might have to recant: there doesn't seem to be a direct way to assign the mouse axis using the "/axis" command as it appears to only take numeric axis values. You'd have to use a mouse-to-joystick program to actually get around this, unless I'm missing something. Also you can't bind a normal key using "/key" to run a script like you would with "/btn" since the ctrl_f1-f12 actions are not recognized for /key... but with a mouse-to-joystick program you could assign the middle mouse button or one of the forward/back deals to do this. Whenever I get home I'll see about playing with this a bit.

[xaotik]

As a proof of concept - it can work by installing PPJoy (http://www.simtel.net/product.download.mirrors.php?id=75176) (it's non-intrusive and actually quite useful - I already had it installed from a previous venture on control scheme mixing and matching). It basically installs a virtual joystick driver which you can then channel all sorts of input into it either by other gaming devices or by mouse, keyboard, etc.

For LFS you just run the mouse-to-joystick utility that comes with it and assign the sensitivity you want it to have then create the following scripts using the virtual axis that the mouse is reported on in LFS - in my case mouseX was 5 and Y was 6:

mouselookon.lfs

/axis -1 steer
/axis 5 lookh
/axis 6 lookp
/ctrlf 8 /run mouselookoff


mouselookoff.lfs

/axis 5 steer
/axis -1 lookh
/axis -1 lookp
/ctrlf 8 /run mouselookon


Unassign the mouse axis from steering and just use the virtual axis otherwise steering will continue to work while you're looking around.

To hook it up just type "/ctrlf 8 run mouselookon" and press Ctrl+F8 to toggle in and out of "look mode".

Happy crashing! :)

[ajp71]

I wouldn't bother with the web cam systems, I tried several and hated them all, a couple of them worked but they weren't responsive enough and I've definitely decided the concept of turning your head to move an image on a static screen isn't very intuitive.