Oval racing with FO8

[ScarySquirrel]

Hello, first post after i got LFS2 the other day, which in turn prompted me to spend £75 i really cant afford on a MOMO :)

anyway, so far the only cars i can really drive the are the FOX cars (on proper tracks) and the FO8's on the Oval track, but im having a little difficulty.

Just had a few races which were so far, i never knew driving around an oval was so fun, really close racing, drafting etc etc.

anyway my problem is this. Im quite happy drafting and switching places with people etc etc which is really fun. but if i made a slight mnistake and they get a little too far in front for me to catch their draft, i find it impossible to catch them. I have a set i downloaded off these forums and i swear my line is right but they just slowly pull away, its so annoying.

saying that i did just come 2nd and 3rd in two races of about 15-18 people, im so proud of myself :)

sorry for long post. i love this game btw



ps. also, im after a kinda beginnner non serious team to join, just a nice bunch of guys to race with and be a team with team skins etc, teamspeak and stuff like that. even if it is a serious team i would like to join as a fringe driver just to get better and have some fun as the clan im in for BF2 dont really play racing games. cheers for any leads :)

[thisnameistaken]

You're probably too slow in turn 3. Try to smoothly aim for the apex and smoothly back out of it again on the exit. Persevere with the other cars and circuits too, they require lot of effort to learn and get fast but they're much more rewarding than lapping the oval once you get the hang of it.

Edit: Oh, and "Welcome" :) I'm forgetting my manners...

[RacingSimFan]

anyway my problem is this. Im quite happy drafting and switching places with people etc etc which is really fun. but if i made a slight mnistake and they get a little too far in front for me to catch their draft, i find it impossible to catch them. I have a set i downloaded off these forums and i swear my line is right but they just slowly pull away, its so annoying

thats the downside of fo8/oval racing under the current physics. the draft is everything and once you lose it, you're toast unless your setup and line are faster than the car ahead. chances are, they're not. at least that was the case with me. there are guys who still do the oval all the time and have done so since day 1 so my only suggestion is to watch their lines and beg, borrow, or steal a setup from them.

unless you find the fastest line and setup the oval will become very frustrating. thats the way it was for me and why i haven't raced fo8/oval in ages.

[ScarySquirrel]

i think i go into the turns to early which often results in me having to turn sharply to not hit the wall.


i know i should put more time into the other cars but i tend to just join the full servers.

i definately want to get better though, because i can imagine how satisfying it is when you do get good.

I would like to learn about creating setups as well, but i know NOTHING about cars so i think im in trouble. anyway thanks for the pointers guys. and thanks for the welcome :)

[thisnameistaken]

Bob Smith's Advanced Setup Guide (might be stickied somewhere, or try a search) is a great resource for setup-tweaking. Give it a read, then take one of the cars out and try to make it behave how you want it to. Be warned though, you will spend hours lapping and tweaking stuff in the garage and lapping again...

[ScarySquirrel]

i think ill learn to drive first :) thanks for the tip though

[deggis]

i think ill learn to drive first :) thanks for the tip though
But you will not learn to drive cars if you're playing the goddamn Oval & F08 combo all the time. I recommend you to try other cars and other tracks. Oval is really boring. I can't understand how people can drive it all the time.

[Gabkicks]

the bad thing about the oval is mostly crappy drivers are there:shrug:

It doesnt take much to "master" the current oval in lfs so you wont learn much from driving there. Its pretty easy to compete with even the best oval racers as long as you can get past the noobs without crashing.

Ovals offer a different set of challenges overall, but i prefer tracks with left and right turns.


i'd discourage new lfs players driving on the ovals...


personally... i think some people like me drive the oval once in a while just to do something different... while i suspect most are too slow and dont want to take the time to learn how to get around other tracks quickly...

[ScarySquirrel]

i know i should put more time into the other cars but i tend to just join the full servers.



i only join the oval when im after a bit of fast fun

[sturje]

Its taken me the best past of almost 5 months to get to the point i am now with the oval, so saying it doesn't take much to master is absurd. It takes just as long to master the oval as any other track. And its only lately have i been able to hit the 36.23 WR, however we now know a 36.21 (someone did a .74 first split) is possible so i haven't even completely mastered it myself yet. Oval is insanely hard expecially when your 4 cars wide and it makes for an exhilarating experience.

I started on the oval and am now going onto other tracks, when i started other tracks i didn't have any problem with right turns and driving different cars. Only thing i had to get my head around was braking correctly and downshift engine braking. I personally would encourage new drivers to try out an oval to see how important racing lines really are. Ovals are boring only if you have a poor line and can't keep up with the competition, this is generally why most people sway away from the oval. But if you keep at it the better the races become.

Gabkicks, I can assure you a new driver to the oval wouldn't stand a chance against the best, even once an exceptional setup is given to a new driver, they perform around 36.60's and is so damn easy to lose them its quite frightening. Even drivers who have been at it 2-3 months are fairly easy to lose with evasion techniques.

I have put my setup in the LFS setups bit for anyone interested in grabbing it. I also suggest looking at the hotlaps and trying to imitate the racing line.

[AndroidXP]

Ok, oval may be hard to master, but it's extremely easy to get very good with it, unlike the other tracks where you actually have to turn in two directions. You don't have to apply the somewhat complicated rules of "who has the right of way" but merely need to remember there's someone besides you, which even the newbies understand pretty quickly.

It may be hard to get WR laps in singleplayer - there you have to be really smooth and need much practice - but in online play it's all about the drafting and your uber-great hotlap skills won't help you there.

IMO oval racing is the most boring type of racing in LFS, combined with the most immature drivers ever seen. At first I raced it too, but the realization of how sucky it is came quickly.

[Nobo]

I have to say oval drafting is not that easy as most people say. From former posts i know AndroidXP you don't like the oval at all. No problem everyone has its favors. But to say its easy to get a very good driver is not right. Its easy to learn drafting, its easy to learn doing 10 laps without a crash, thats right, and i think thats the reason most beginners come first to the oval. But to become a good oval driver, and i think i can call myself one, and needs a lot of practice like on any other circuit course. When i drive our public oval i can exactly see, after a few seconds, if i draft with an experienced oval driver or not. There come people who learn quite fast, but to get used to 3,4 or even 5 man drafting it takes you a lot of time to master this. Even to get in a two man draft below 35.20 or even 35.10....you need to go very smooth lines. And this devides the normal oval racers from the good ones. Oval can be a playground for a lot of tactic racing, teamwork...and you can see fast who is a real sportsman...After almost 3 Month in LFS i still like the oval, because no race is the same, and there are allways new tactical situation. But i began in the past weeks to discover new tracks with the guys i drive the oval. And you can see that the very good oval racers have good skills to race on circuits fast.

[AndroidXP]

See, what you talk about is "mastering" the oval. But understanding the principle of draft and driving a fast lap is relatively easy compared to normal circuit racing. The only thing that is a bit of a challenge on the oval is T3, but that's about it.

And those "very good oval racers" who are also able to race circuit tracks fast are probably able to do so because they don't ONLY drive the oval. I mean, yea the oval racing is more of a tactical skirmish, but the technical aspect is nose up in the air and pedal to the metal. Things that won't do you good on normal tracks. IMO atleast.

[TagForce]

I love racing the oval... There's usually about 5 or 6 potential winners racing there, and the occasional wrecker, and the rest are mediocre or noob oval racers. The only thing I do not like about the way people race the oval here is the stupid rules they like adhering to... Like not passing on the right, or not drafting the leader (when lapped). Oval racing is ALL about passing on the right and drafting the leader (or have the leader draft you)... Oval racing is about making friends in the race. Usually I have about 2 or 3 guys picked out from the pack whom I'll be really friendly with. And usually they return the favor when the time's right. Helping them get a lead when they're in front and I'm a lap down is part of being friendly.
In REAL Oval racing this is common practice, and since this is a sim...

[sturje]

I'd have to completely disagree with you on the drafting part, on 8 lap races this is true, but in endurance events where the majority of the time your on your own after a pit, an excellent racing line makes ALL the difference between second and first place. Also even just getting very good with it takes between 1 and 2 months, i've seen players who i have seen the server regulary for a couple of months still fairly slow drivers. driving 36.35's+.

Those who drive ovals generally are speed freaks and like the adrenaline rush with instant reactions, circuit racing is the more slow paced racing that does take a large amount of skill to do a fast lap, but a fast lap, is a fast lap and the same principle to a perfect racing line applies to every track.

Personally i really like circuit racing but it just doesn't have the fast paced rush that you get with the oval. Expecially when you are four cars abreast and wheel to wheel, the tiniest mistake could cause all 4 cars to crash out. It takes an extreme amount of observation to be able to pull off.

There is no "easy" to oval racing, it doesn't even come close to the word. Complications always arise, and driving a tight line physically and mentally tires me out expecially when one has someone tight on ones tail.

[sturje]

Like not passing on the right, or not drafting the leader (when lapped). Oval racing is ALL about passing on the right and drafting the leader (or have the leader draft you)...

This made me laugh :) In a real life situation drafting with a lead lapper after 3 laps results in a disqualification (aka the blue flag), Though i do have a few moans at the blue flag system on LFS :o . And passing on the right is not only probally one of the most useless passes one can do, but generally no-one expects a right pass and is dangerous.

But we keep these rules on the server for a bloody good race, i couldn't even imagine what it'd be like with no rules :| My god....

[mrodgers]

Love it or hate it, Nascar is the biggest and premier series for oval racing. LFS has options in the setup missing for oval racing and that is staggar and weight bias. The force feedback is just totally wrong for oval racing because of this. In oval racing you want to set up the car to make it turn. Until staggar and weight bias is in the setup, you cannot do this.

For the original post where you say:

anyway my problem is this. Im quite happy drafting and switching places with people etc etc which is really fun. but if i made a slight mnistake and they get a little too far in front for me to catch their draft, i find it impossible to catch them. I have a set i downloaded off these forums and i swear my line is right but they just slowly pull away, its so annoying.
That is just a function of racing on a big oval with the draft (slipstream for some of you). When in the draft, two cars will be able to drive faster than one as the first car cuts the air and the second car pushes the first one. If you loose the draft, you will loose the car in front of you. This is why at Talladega and Daytona in Nascar you will see a pack of cars driving side by side in two lines, split apart and the guy that gets left in the middle out of line suddenly looks like he threw it into reverse. In Nascar, if a driver pulls out to pass by himself without someone following behind, he could get dropped from second and attempting to pass first down to last place from loosing the draft.

In my opinion, public pickup races are crap on the oval because to effectively have fun there, you need many laps, so you can have the chance of moving up in the draft or loosing the draft and falling back with the chance of drafting back up to the front again. 5, 10, even 20 laps are not nearly long enough to run the oval with. That is why Nascar runs 300-500 lap races compared to 20-40 laps in road course series racing.

[sturje]

I'd have to agree with you a stagger and weight bias would be a lovely addition to the setup menu (*cough* devs ;) ) I've reduced the tire pressure on the inside tires with my setup, this helps a bit. A stagger would be brilliant.

Only when i race 150 laps does it feel like a bloody good race, but i would like more, there has been 500 lap oval events hosted but i havent attended them. Oval's are brilliant tracks for endurance, and this is another aspect i love about the oval.

[th84]

To say that being good at the oval takes anything more than a good set, a few laps learning the draft, and patience to deal with the idiots you find on oval servers is, imo, absurd! I think thats the reason "noobs" flock to the oval, is because it dont take much to be good there! Ive done my share of laps on the oval when s2 came out, but for me its much more challenging to be good at s0classic with uf1(just to use a example) then it is to be fast at the oval! The first couple weeks when s2 came out, we did alot of oval racing. I know for a fact that all 5 of us, who raced together nightly, were in the 35's(drafting of course, with home made sets) within the first week! So i dont agree that it takes months to get good there! I think that people who race only oval are not getting everything lfs has to offer!

Nascar is the premier series for oval racing in the states. There is NO blue flags, u can pass on whatever side u wish and draft the leader all u want to try and get ur lap back! Thats what oval racing is all about! Allthough i do understand why servers such as FM"S have these types of rules in place, over used maybe, but ... It can get frustrating when a lapped car takes the leaders out.

IMO oval racing is the most boring type of racing in LFS, combined with the most immature drivers ever seen. At first I raced it too, but the realization of how sucky it is came quickly

That pretty much sums it up!

[TagForce]

This made me laugh :) In a real life situation drafting with a lead lapper after 3 laps results in a disqualification (aka the blue flag), Though i do have a few moans at the blue flag system on LFS :o . And passing on the right is not only probally one of the most useless passes one can do, but generally no-one expects a right pass and is dangerous.

But we keep these rules on the server for a bloody good race, i couldn't even imagine what it'd be like with no rules :| My god....

In oval racing losing a lap is deadly, because once a caution is out you lose about 2 minutes... So you may fight for your lap back.

Passing on the right is part of racing... Dangerous or not, it is part of racing. Someone blocks the inside, I'm sure as hell not going to lift and let him stay ahead of me, but I'm going to slingshot passed him on the outside.
The general rule for oval racing is very simple... If you're not sure you're clear... Hold your line.

I didn't say no rules, btw... Just these rules defy the entire point of oval racing and degrade it to a series of fast laps by two people who know how to draft. Maybe that's why I hate IRL, and love NASCAR so much.

[sturje]

To say that being good at the oval takes anything more than a good set, a few laps learning the draft, and patience to deal with the idiots you find on oval servers is, imo, absurd!

LMFAO...sorry....

Doesnt take much to be good there? rofl, though i believe your definition of good deviates massively from mine. And i must remind you that this isnt nascar and never will be, the blue flag IS there on the game. If you want nascar rules go play Nascar 2003 or w/e. I don't recall f3000's being part of nascar or is it just me?

35.xx times are considered bad now and quite a few of us are hitting 34.xx and this is with loads of practice. i can get 35.xx times with one draft pass, too easy to hit, and nothing special, this is generally considered a poor time, 34.xx times with two cars however is special and i truely doubt any of you who are moaning about oval being bad could ever hit it. Perhaps rather than moaning about oval being shit, have a stab at hitting a 34.xx with a draft partner? Then we shall see if hitting that 34.xx is so easy and takes 3 hours of oval practice to hit it.

A new trend of drafting that is coming into use now is bump drafting, and this takes a huge amount of skill to be able to keep the car pushing straight and not skidding off.

This is turning into a battle of whats better, and arrogance is starting to show which is a real shame.

[sturje]

Actually the majority of us are doing circuit races, and are getting fairly competent at this. I didn't imply it was nascar i was saying that you were comparing our rules to nascar and is simply irrelevant. Super low 35's are easy.

At any rate, fine have your opinion but its simply a load of high class bs of the highest standards possible....I could be a moron and say circuit racing is easy, but i won't lower myself to your levels as i do have a bit of dignity.

[th84]

ok whats the point? all the best drivers are to be found on the oval!! lmao

bump drafting? i wonder where that idea came from?? *cough nascar cough*

*waves white flag*

btw, sorry for deleting my last post, but i agree, i dont want to turn it into whats its turning into!

arrogance has nothing to do with it, if thats what u wanna turn it into, thats fine by me, i was simply stating my opionion! hence the "imo" a bit of dignity? lol, typical fm style!!

[sturje]

Your assuming a lot of things, i have never ONCE said that all the best drivers are found on the oval. And bump drafting? Yeah it came from nascar...but doesn't mean we're adopting their rules does it? I really like nascar as well, but i like a bit of law and order on a server to try and keep crashes down, and all i can say is our rule system works VERY well. And as it works so good we're going to keep to it.

If i had given the same devotion and dedication of 5 months to a circuit track i'm sure i'd be bloody good at it. All i'm trying to get at is oval ISNT easy, and is far from it. If you consider 35.xx times good, fine, believe it. Being truely good at a track is when you are pushing the last .02 of a second out of it.

Oh and arrogance has a lot to do with this topic....

[Gabkicks]

there's a reason passing on the outside is looked down on in the 8 lap oval servers...

unless you're going alot faster than the guy in front, (20mph difference) you will probably just end up exiting the corner sideby side or crashing. then the people following the rules will catch up and probably pass both of you.

blocking the inside usually gives the same results as trying to pass on the outside.:shrug:

you guys cant deny the stupid driving on the 8 lap oval servers. :pillepall

[ScarySquirrel]

im really sorry to have started this, all i wanted was a couple of pointers in case i was doing something wrong. i didnt mean it to turn into an arguement.

why dont you just all agree to disagree :)

ps. got my MOMO :)

[sturje]

The driving in the 8 lap is absolutely dire at the best of times mate, these rules are simply their to keep people from crashing nothing else. It works to a certain degree, I can guarantee if the no high pass rule wasn't there, crashes would be a lot more frequent. The FO8's turning circle just isn't sufficient tbh.

hehe scarysquirrel, i must apologise myself but i believe strongly in that oval does take a fair bit of skill to run. I have a momo and i absolutely love it ;) Have fun with it mate.

[th84]

you know what works on your server and thats fine! i have no problem with u guys rules and when i join ur server i follow them! i also never said 35 times were good, but at that time that was what people were shooting for! you dont seem to be paying attention to peoples comments and acting as if u have to defend the oval! if thats what u like, so be it, u payed your license fee so have fun with it! but dont assume someone cant do a certain time just because they enjoy making right hand turns occasionally!

[Ramses]

im really sorry to have started this, all i wanted was a couple of pointers in case i was doing something wrong. i didnt mean it to turn into an arguement.

why dont you just all agree to disagree :)

ps. got my MOMO :)

Ok, some advice:

First you may think your line is ok but it's probably not. Hooking in to the corner and preserve speed isn't just a matter of following the correct path. Its important how you steer. I call it hooking because that's how it feels. No other way I can explain it :)

When a car slowely closes in on you over a large distance, he had time to pick up a lot of speed. When that car is overtaking you you are one step from gettin' 'hung out to dry'. The best way to avoid it is first acknowledge the problem (so check what is happening in your mirror)then don't go too wide when he overtakes you (stay low) and immediatly position your car behind im when he's past (use your side views OFTEN). A split second can make the difference. What ever you do, don't go too wide!

Be prepared for cars that exit low. It's the most obvious way to get rid of someone. When you notice it, don't waste any time and get back in the draft straight away. Don't think you'll catch them when they come back up cause that's exactly what they won't do.

[ScarySquirrel]

yeah thats what im trying to get better at, getting in their draft ASAP.

atm though im spending a bit more time trying to learn the proper tracks, my MOMO has made a huge difference so far, much easier to hold slides now and i cannow go down a straight without wobbling side to side

[tristancliffe]

Ok, some advice:

First you may think your line is ok but it's probably not. Hooking in to the corner and preserve speed isn't just a matter of following the correct path. Its important how you steer. I call it hooking because that's how it feels. No other way I can explain it :)

When a car slowely closes in on you over a large distance, he had time to pick up a lot of speed. When that car is overtaking you you are one step from gettin' 'hung out to dry'. The best way to avoid it is first acknowledge the problem (so check what is happening in your mirror)then don't go too wide when he overtakes you (stay low) and immediatly position your car behind im when he's past (use your side views OFTEN). A split second can make the difference. What ever you do, don't go too wide!

Be prepared for cars that exit low. It's the most obvious way to get rid of someone. When you notice it, don't waste any time and get back in the draft straight away. Don't think you'll catch them when they come back up cause that's exactly what they won't do.

Yup, seems obvious to me. After 5 minutes of oval racing I was bored of it, despite the 'nuances'

[Ramses]

Yup, seems obvious to me. After 5 minutes of oval racing I was bored of it, despite the 'nuances'

I'm sorry but it's just too obvious.

You have one hell of an Ego, don't you?

[tristancliffe]

sometimes, about some things, yes. Don't we all. But at other things (well, the majority of things really), I'm pretty terrible and I know it. I do however try to become vaguely good at everything I attempt, whether it be a computer game, or mowing the lawn. Apart from cooking. It's something I just can't enjoy or want to get good at.

[Stealthy04]

i can make a killer pot noodle :tilt:

[tristancliffe]

All pot noodles are killers :p

[Stealthy04]

specially the 'big dave' pot noodles.

ok ok back on topic :D

[thisnameistaken]

... cooking. It's something I just can't enjoy or want to get good at.

Not wanting to hijack, but: I did the whole professional chef thing for a few years, until I finally went nuts and had to pack it in and take a year off to recuperate (seriously!). As much as I hated it, I am at least glad I learned to cook well in the process.

Cooking's a great social skill, food makes people happy, chemically and psychologically, especially when somebody else goes to the trouble of making it for them. It's well worth learning to do it well. :)

[nikka]

Not wanting to hijack, but: I did the whole professional chef thing for a few years, until I finally went nuts and had to pack it in and take a year off to recuperate (seriously!). As much as I hated it, I am at least glad I learned to cook well in the process.

Cooking's a great social skill, food makes people happy, chemically and psychologically, especially when somebody else goes to the trouble of making it for them. It's well worth learning to do it well. :)

Oh ok, since we have a chef here, let's settle this once and for all: Is preparing a bacon sandwich considered cooking? :scratchch

[th84]

lol, i hate u nikka!! :P but its not "preparing", the debate was over if microwaving some bacon is considered cooking!! and the answer is no!! :)

[mike11973]

The oval appears easy...it is not...I started dabbling into it but got bored/frustrated as well so I took a break. I did some other tracks and focused on rF for a bit. I came back a few months later and decided to give it another go and started putting some focused effort on actually learning the proper lines and driving tecniques for this track (of which I am still only scratching the surface) doing hotlaps before getting back to the public servers. I found and have to agree that the more I learned the more I realized how little I actually do know about this track. This track is just as rewarding as any other the better you get at it. It's all a matter of personal preference.

[Gunn]

..... or it could just be the Momo pedals :x

[Gabkicks]

^ do u mean at launch? i'm guessing thats what u mean.

i'd say 3 out of 5 races someone has spun out at the start and crashed into me.:gnasher: <omg this is a really stupid angry face.

[Ramses]

sometimes, about some things, yes. Don't we all.

I don't think so. I think most people can let other people enjoy whatever they want without passing judgement. I for one have allways disliked FWD but if someone here would ask for advice on how to improve his GTI laptimes you won't find me critisizing him or claiming GTI's are boring or too easy to drive. When he likes FWD, good for him.

I can think of no other reason to give such a comment unless you have something to proof.

But at other things (well, the majority of things really), I'm pretty terrible and I know it. I do however try to become vaguely good at everything I attempt, whether it be a computer game, or mowing the lawn.

Then maybe you could try to get better at putting yourself in someone else's position. For example imagine you would be new to LFS and you would ask for guidance. How would you feel when the first page of that thread would focus primairily on how much of an idiot you are to race on an oval in the first place or how boring that which you are doing is to the 'real' racers. Because that's what happened to this thread and when things calmed down a bit you came in to start it all over again.

I have to admit though, you are good at being honest. I'll give you that.

[tristancliffe]

When I was a noob, I was adament that the LX6 was the car for me, and that I would master it first. This was the S1 equivalent of the FO8. I tended to drive it on the easiest, fastest course (Fern Bay Green iirc). Very soon afterwards a few 'masters of LFS' pointed out in no uncertain terms that I was crap at that car because I hadn't a clue how to drive. They advised that I stick to the slower cars for a bit. So I did. I learnt a lot by avoiding the fastest car on the easiest course (of course, FO8 is faster and oval is easier, but you get my point). When the MRT came out, I somehow specialised in it, and found the low power and quick responces to be brilliant, although the short wheelbase made catching mistakes difficult.

I think that if I had started LFS in the MRT then I wouldn't have been so good at it. Learning to drive the slower cars might seem duller than 180mph, but I honestly think you learn more from it.

I don't see what you'll learn from buying LFS and spending a year on the oval. You won't be learning proper oval techniques, as LFS currently isn't designed to simulate them - Nascar Racing 2003 is far far better for that at the moment.

And besides, ScarySquirrel, the starter of this thread, has been in touch with me and we've had a brief discussion. I don't think he's ovalling much anymore, preferring to master other cars on proper tracks. In short, he has now discovered LFS.

[WGooden]

Yeah, if you actually wanna race oval with some skill involved try NR 2003. :)