Best Returning League

[DeadWolfBones]

Most of the old veterans are back, and they all have some fight left in them.

:schwitz:

(Please note that I did not personally select the nominees for each category. There was a nomination period (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=34740) in which anyone could submit nominations. With a few exceptions, the nominees in these polls were those who received more than one nomination each in the given category. For a full explanation of the process used to select the nominees, look here (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=35285).)

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Honorable Mentions (all with one nomination each):

Open Wheel Racing League (OWRL)
Original Live for Speed League (OLFSL)
LFS Endurance League

[Jakg]

How is the STCC returning when it has only done one season...?

[danowat]

Blimey, got no chance up against them big guns :)

[DeadWolfBones]

How is the STCC returning when it has only done one season...?

I suppose because it began in 2006?

It got several votes and it technically did start there, so I let it slide.

[R34GTR]

Rssc :d

[Ihab Abbas]

I hope that you win this vote :thumb:

Best regards

[BlueFlame]

How is the STCC returning when it has only done one season...?

I suppose because it began in 2006?

It got several votes and it technically did start there, so I let it slide.
It should be taken away to be honest :(

[Storm_Cloud]

I voted BOTT. A great concept and very well organised. I just wish it hadn't clashed with other leagues or I would've raced a lot more.

[FOX 1977]

we can only vote once...there for mine goes to....

Yap.... BOTT.... is very competitive and the guys are great!

GO BOTT

[Rocabiliz]

we can only vote once...there for mine goes to....

Yap.... BOTT.... is very competitive and the guys are great!

GO BOTT
Yeah boi.. :)

BOTT was very professional and well organized.. good people, good races, good website.. had it all :thumb:

[AstroBoy]

Im tied up between voting for BoTT and MoE there both good leagues that i support guess ill flip a coin and go from there.

[SamH]

I wanted to vote for the STCC simply because the rules and regs are so comprehensive and closely adhered to, but at the end of the day I can't do because it's only had the one season, the end results of which aren't yet released.. so it's not "returning". Nevertheless, I'm genuinely in awe of Becky's meticulous attention to detail and the stewarding team for the STCC were absolutely fantastic.

RSSC I've heard nothing but good things about, and I think next season I'd like to try to get into it.

I know Dustin absolutely loved the LOTA when he was involved this year.. it sounded like a blast, and it sounded properly challenging too. So that's a good option to go for.

I can't vote for the MoE because of the Shift+P/rejoin issue. I'm afraid I just can't take it seriously while it's maintaining rules like that.

I really wanted to participate in the BOTT this year.. those guys got me excited about it, and if it hadn't been for us having to work on the X-System, I would have really enjoyed taking part.

So.. some really good nominations, but I'm going to have to plop for LOTA.. almost purely on Dustin's enthusiasm. But it was infectious, and had me in servers practicing alongside him when I had time to spare, and it takes a lot to get me out of coding and into the game.

So, by a hair, LOTA gets my vote :)

[DeadWolfBones]

A pretty thorough analysis there, Sam.

As for the shift-s/p rejoin in MoE... it's only there as a response to some, um, unrealistic physics reactions lingering in the LFS simulation. Until cars react realistically to curbs and impacts, it's not really fair to penalize teams for falling victim to the unrealistic reactions. :shrug:

[SamH]

hehe.. I appreciate what you're saying, I just feel shift+p after a poor physics interaction is adding an insult to an injury. A realism-failure double-whammy, if you will. :)

I'm certainly not saying that MoE is wrong for doing things the way it does, I'm just saying that while it does it this way, it can't qualify for my vote. Call me mean, or a stickler for cruel circumstance and rammification.. but in LFS, we're all racing our races on the same tracks and in the same cars, and near the same barriers and walls :)

[Hoellsen]

See it this way: In real 24h races, cars are brought back to the pits by the towtruck and then made fit to race again (something NR2003 by Papy also had implemented). LFS doesn't have such a feature, yet it is not unrealistic for teams to race on after they got beached or had a crash. So we use Shift-S/P, even though we know it is a little unrealistic to do so. Then again, there are a lot of unrealistic things going on (sunshine 24h a day?), so we think we can live with it. :) Besides, there is a penalty for using it.

[joshdifabio]

I voted for MoE, largely because of the quality of the drivers, which is better than in any other league on that list imo. It's also generally very well run.

The organisation behind the STCC is second to none, however the standard of driving isn't as good as in some other leagues in my opinion.

[Tweaker]

I voted for MoE, largely because of the quality of the drivers, which is better than in any other league on that list imo. It's also generally very well run.

The organisation behind the STCC is second to none, however the standard of driving isn't as good as in some other leagues in my opinion.
Pretty much what I'd come to say too.... especially about STCC :o.

Though, I voted for LOTA, to support their efforts over here... only good league we got :shrug:

[SamH]

The organisation behind the STCC is second to none, however the standard of driving isn't as good as in some other leagues in my opinion.
Having driven the first season of the STCC, I'd have difficulty arguing any of that.. cos in TBO, I'm genuinely pants! :shy: :tilt:

I'll reiterate that I don't think the STCC should be in this poll, specifically because it's not a returning league. So I can say the following without prejudice:

I have to contest your point. First and foremost, I'm driven to point out that this poll isn't about the drivers in the league, it's about the league itself. But secondly, I know for a fact that a hell of a lot of the best drivers in LFS wanted in on this league by the time the STCC reached Q2 of its first season. Lastly, I'll hit anyone over the head with the nearest barstool if they suggest that drivers like Hannu Pinola, Victor Szabo, Chris Redman, Fabien Pailler, Teemu Vedenoja, Henri Vierumaki, Patrick Galaske, Tommi Arends and many others aren't good drivers. These are absolutely top-quality LFS drivers, and drove in the STCC.

I don't mind people recognising that I'm not a brilliant driver in LFS.. but the fact that I suck really shouldn't be used to perpetuate the nonsense tale that the STCC didn't have good drivers. The STCC had/has some of the most highly skilled drivers in LFS. And those of us who weren't as good were good cannon fodder for the commentators.. and that's exactly why we were there! :)

[dawesdust_12]

It's managements fault, letting people like myself in, who can't drive to save my life.

/me flees!

[SamH]

It's managements fault, letting people like myself in, who can't drive to save my life.

/me flees!
hehe.. you've improved this year, dramatically! But I'll agree, management is to blame for letting in less capable drivers as well as good drivers. I'm just saying it certainly wasn't stuck for good drivers :)

[joshdifabio]

Having driven the first season of the STCC, I'd have difficulty arguing any of that.. cos in TBO, I'm genuinely pants! :shy: :tilt:

I'll reiterate that I don't think the STCC should be in this poll, specifically because it's not a returning league. So I can say the following without prejudice:

I have to contest your point. First and foremost, I'm driven to point out that this poll isn't about the drivers in the league, it's about the league itself. But secondly, I know for a fact that a hell of a lot of the best drivers in LFS wanted in on this league by the time the STCC reached Q2 of its first season. Lastly, I'll hit anyone over the head with the nearest barstool if they suggest that drivers like Hannu Pinola, Victor Szabo, Chris Redman, Fabien Pailler, Teemu Vedenoja, Henri Vierumaki, Patrick Galaski, Tommi Arends and many others aren't good drivers. These are absolutely top-quality LFS drivers, and drove in the STCC.

I don't mind people recognising that I'm not a brilliant driver in LFS.. but the fact that I suck really shouldn't be used to perpetuate the nonsense tale that the STCC didn't have good drivers. The STCC had/has some of the most highly skilled drivers in LFS. And those of us who weren't as good were good cannon fodder for the commentators.. and that's exactly why we were there! :)

There are 2 or 3 very good drivers in the STCC, but I think when you look at a league like MoE, IeTM, ESL PS or the top pool in BoTT the overall standard of STCC isn't on the same level. I don't think it makes sense to say that this poll isn't about the drivers in a league; without the drivers there is no league, so it does make a difference as far as I'm concerned.

I can understand why Becky sticks with drivers who she knows to be committed, I was just pointing out that part of the reason I voted for MoE is that the driving standard is higher.

[SamH]

I take your points, but I still don't think that a Car Of The Year award would take into consideration the standard of driving of the people who buy them.. just as an example, but I could come up with thousands more :shrug: :)

[joshdifabio]

Clearly a bad driver doesn't effect the standard of a car, but that's a very poor example as far as I'm concerned. A car is a physical object whereas a league is a body of which the drivers are a large part.

If you are driving in a league full of crap drivers who crash all the time don't you think that this would effect the perceived quality of the league? I'm not saying that this is the case with the STCC, I'm just trying to point out that it makes a difference. If the 20 best drivers in the world drove in the STCC it would be a better league than it is now, and I would vote for it.

[SamH]

Clearly a bad driver doesn't effect the standard of a car, but that's a very poor example as far as I'm concerned. A car is a physical object whereas a league is a body of which the drivers are a large part.
I think it depends how you see it. I see the league as the framework within which people compete. It's the organizational structure, the constraints and rules. To me, a league is separate from its drivers. :)

[AppiePils]

I think it depends how you see it. I see the league as the framework within which people compete. It's the organizational structure, the constraints and rules. To me, a league is separate from its drivers. :)

I agree with the organizational structure, the constraints and rules. I would include the way the assets are enforced and the clarity of these assets towards the drivers which should increase the level of a league.

I disagree about the separation of the drivers. In my opinion is the combination of organization, rules, enforcement and the drivers what defines a league. You can have a perfectly organized league, but in the end it are the participants who set the standard for a league.

[traxxion]

Congrats to the MoE admin team! 24 hour race here we come! :D

[FOX 1977]

Congratulations, Moe ! :thumb: