My new favourite car in LFS - the Raceabout

[axus]

:wow:

It possibly has the best handling of any road car once it is on a good setup. The turn-in is electric. It demands extreme throttle control and is among the most satisfying drives if you get it right. I struggled with it at first but after ~50km it was the best drive I ever had in LFS. If you are struggling with it, just download a setup from the inferno setupfield (http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/) and put some laps in on your favourite track. It is the most rewarding thing ever!

This car, the LX4 (and probably the 6 but I haven't driven that as much), the FZ50, the UF1000, the XF GTi, the FXO Turbo, the XF GTR, the Formula XR, the Formula V8, the XR GTR and the FZ GTR are the cars I drive for the most part and enjoy the most. :thumb:

[TRM.13]

Try it on rallicross!

[Hyperactive]

Yes the car is perfect but it gets very loose above 160kph. When the rear steps out even a bit it is question of pure luck to get it back

[Batterypark]

Yes the car is perfect but it gets very loose above 160kph. When the rear steps out even a bit it is question of pure luck to get it back

Driving it so that the rear doesn't step out is a question of pure skill though ;)

[Hyperactive]

Driving it so that the rear doesn't step out is a question of pure skill though ;)

No, it's about how much frustration you can handle. Just take the drag strip and make a little turn when you've over 160kph speed. Wheeee!!

:)

[axus]

No, it's about how much frustration you can handle. Just take the drag strip and make a little turn when you've over 160kph speed. Wheeee!!

:)

Take a real raceabout on the drag strip and and at 160 twitch the wheel. :nod:

[Hyperactive]

Take a real raceabout on the drag strip and and at 160 twitch the wheel. :nod:

I'd like to do that ;). But the rear in RAC comes very loose and just a little bump makes the rear step out. Take AS3R, that second last corner after the slow ones is frustrating. Just a little wrong line and you're at 90 degree slide. Don't know if they have tested the real thing for this, but the rear seem to get bad lift at high speeds. This is why they added a small wing to the Audi TT ;) And getting it back straight is black magic to me :D

[NotAnIllusion]

Dunno, course if you jerk it it'll go but it's not impossible to drive straight.. It's fine on Fern Bay tracks too, in contrast:

[Hyperactive]

I did couple of runs in different cars and here are the shame bits. Don't get me wrong, I like the rac. But if I can do better in LX6 which hardly ever drive...

[durbster]

Ooh, I'll try this setup tonight. I've been looking for a decent setup for the RAC since S2 came out.

[tristancliffe]

This is why they added a small wing to the Audi TT ;)

Actually, I think the TT was flipping from the front, so they added the spoiler at the back to ruin the airflow over the back, and reduce the rear downforce, and allowing balance back into the downforce.

But as any body who likes cars know, the TT is a pile of poo, apart from the clever gearbox. Just a shame it's flappy paddle.

[Resound]

Actually, I think the TT was flipping from the front, so they added the spoiler at the back to ruin the airflow over the back, and reduce the rear downforce, and allowing balance back into the downforce.

But as any body who likes cars know, the TT is a pile of poo, apart from the clever gearbox. Just a shame it's flappy paddle.

I seem to recall that the TT suffered from high speed overspeer. I think they reduced the size of the rear sway bar as well as fitting the spoiler.

[NotAnIllusion]

@Hyperactive: Okay.. I couldn't get far with the RAC set you used in those SPRs, but I did do much better with mine. Attached is a single lap around AS3R & the setup I used. You might need to tweak it to suit your wheel & pedals (mouse & keyb here), but do NOT increase caster under any circumstances if you want to be able to steer it.

Granted, it's not the fastest setup, but perhaps a good place to start. For the record, it is a slightly modified Bob's Easy Race set.

[durbster]

I seem to recall that the TT suffered from high speed overspeer. I think they reduced the size of the rear sway bar as well as fitting the spoiler.
I don't think it was ever officially recognised by Audi as being a problem, so the truth will probably never be public knowledge. They quietly suggested to the TT owners that a free spoiler was available. There were just a lot of stories of people losing control at over 100mph, which is a bit worrying.

Clearly Audi never expected anybody to drive their fashionable cars at high speeds :)

[Tweaker]

This car, the LX4 (and probably the 6 but I haven't driven that as much),

You're missing out man. The LX6 is where handling is at, a much quicker car than the RAC ;) Allthough, more challenging, hehe.

[JJ72]

The LX6 for me is a bit easier to work with since the basic front/rear balance is good, though a bit sensitive at times, while RAC can be very stable if you don't push too hard, however when near the limit its behavior gets more extreme, the rear end's momentum suddenly seems to be a big burden, it's harder to keep it in mild oversteer then in the LX6.

[axus]

You're missing out man. The LX6 is where handling is at, a much quicker car than the RAC ;) Allthough, more challenging, hehe.

Yes - I have just been driving the LX6 on Blackwood - great fun... got a low 1:21 in 4 laps so I think I'm doing OK for someone who doesn't drive the LX6 much. I have been having great fun with LFS lately. S2 has taught me a lot. I don't even have to think about what I'm doing with the throttle. Catching a slide has become a reflex. Reacting to locked wheels under braking has also become a process for which I don't have to think. In fact the only cars I don't drive in LFS now are the XRG, XRT, RB4 and FXR. The XRG is just a bit boring for me. XRT doesn't suit my driving style and nor does 4WD.

[geeman1]

I totally agree, RAC is a great car. And so are LX6 and FZ5 too.
They are all really fun to drive when you get the hang of it and it gives a big smile on your face when you finally get things perfect and do a fast lap. They are pretty well balanced too, they all have advantages in different areas, but still they do pretty much the same lap times.

It is a shame really that these cars are in the bottom end of the car usage chart.

[axus]

Yes, that is what I have been trying to get people to do - use these cars more. A while back I started a thread about the lack of usage of the LX's because I just discovered the joys of driving an LX4 on an FE track (Gold Rev IIRC) and I noticed that they are at the bottom of the usage charts. Sure, they take some praccy and getting used to but the experience after a few days of frustration is incredible and people should really give these cars a chance.

[Hyperactive]

I haven't seen any servers with RAC available in weeks. Or that there were any drivers on them. Too bad... Guess the RAC is too hard to get really popular...

[sinbad]

You're missing out man. The LX6 is where handling is at, a much quicker car than the RAC ;) Allthough, more challenging, hehe.

That's part of the problem for RAC, and for RB4 in fact, and FXR too actually.

When you can pick LX6, FZ50 or RAC, most go for the LX6. There needs to be more 1 car only servers.

[Hoellsen]

Actually, I think the TT was flipping from the front, so they added the spoiler at the back to ruin the airflow over the back, and reduce the rear downforce, and allowing balance back into the downforce.

No. The original TT created lift at the rear end which made it wash out in hispeed corners. Talk about wing shaped body. A wing like it is put on the TT cannot reduce downforce, that would be contradicting its purpose. You would have to mount it in a way that it channels the airflow to the ground to create lift which is what you definetely don't want on a car at any place and time.

However, the RAC is not suffering from aero problems since there is no aero for non-downforce car in LFS. It is suffering from suspension geometry problems.

[axus]

However, the RAC is not suffering from aero problems since there is no aero for non-downforce car in LFS. It is suffering from suspension geometry problems.

But the wedge-like body should generate some downforce I think... no? Even if the effect is only noticable at high speed - where the problem lies. Infact all LFS cars should have aero and generate extra downforce under braking and things like that - I'm sure Scawen will add this at some stage...

[tristancliffe]

A wing like it is put on the TT cannot reduce downforce, that would be contradicting its purpose.

It's NOT a wing, it's a spoiler, and the purpose is to interrupt the laminar airflow and reduce not create downforce at the real. It will cause the air to detach from the car body and become turbulent, reducing the pressure differential between the top and the underside of the car.

[Hoellsen]

Okay, call it a spoiler then. Fact is that it is there to reduce lift, which was generated in excess by the spoilerless shape of the body before the spoiler was added. The shape without spoiler very closely relates to an airplane wing which is not a good idea for a car in general, which Ferdinand Piech already found out in Le Mans with the Langheck-917.

[Bob Smith]

If we are going to get technical, I was thinking today about the aero in LFS. As far as I'm aware, the drag is constant no matter what angle (horizontal) you are travelling through the air. So if you were doing a 90 degree slide, there is no more air drag than moving straight through the air.

Now in reality the side profile of a car could well twice the size (if not more) of the front profile, and is obviously going to be less aerodynamic too (though by what extent I'm not sure), but for the sake of example lets say this increases the CdA by a factor of 3.

Wouldn't this make a large difference to high speed slide recovery if the aero was effectively pushing the rear back into line? I realise this would make little difference at low speed or for low angle slides, but perhaps it would help make the large angle slides a little more controllable (which is where it becomes more difficult than reality).

Any thoughts?

[axus]

If we are going to get technical, I was thinking today about the aero in LFS. As far as I'm aware, the drag is constant no matter what angle (horizontal) you are travelling through the air. So if you were doing a 90 degree slide, there is no more air drag than moving straight through the air.

Now in reality the side profile of a car could well twice the size (if not more) of the front profile, and is obviously going to be less aerodynamic too (though by what extent I'm not sure), but for the sake of example lets say this increases the CdA by a factor of 3.

Wouldn't this make a large difference to high speed slide recovery if the aero was effectively pushing the rear back into line? I realise this would make little difference at low speed or for low angle slides, but perhaps it would help make the large angle slides a little more controllable (which is where it becomes more difficult than reality).

Any thoughts?

Great point! Hopefully Scawen throws this in in the next physics update.

[Hyperactive]

If we are going to get technical, I was thinking today about the aero in LFS. As far as I'm aware, the drag is constant no matter what angle (horizontal) you are travelling through the air. So if you were doing a 90 degree slide, there is no more air drag than moving straight through the air.

Now in reality the side profile of a car could well twice the size (if not more) of the front profile, and is obviously going to be less aerodynamic too (though by what extent I'm not sure), but for the sake of example lets say this increases the CdA by a factor of 3.

Wouldn't this make a large difference to high speed slide recovery if the aero was effectively pushing the rear back into line? I realise this would make little difference at low speed or for low angle slides, but perhaps it would help make the large angle slides a little more controllable (which is where it becomes more difficult than reality).

Any thoughts?

Link, not directly about the matter, but (http://users.pandora.be/elvo/)

It wouldn't triple. Because:
* the wings are not directly in the airflow-> less dowforce
* sure the car going sideways would have more drag but the center dot (if you convert the pressure to single pointing force, placed directly affecting a single dot) would be in the middle of the area going against airflow. And the "dot" moves very rapidly and a lot affected by the air flows direction, density and pressure etc..
* it is very car shape dependant. If the windscreen (simplified example) is very close to the nose, indirect wind, aero pressure would turn the car away from its path. And a car having it's windshield at the back will get the indirectional aero forces so that they actually stabilize he car, like in LX4 the indirect force will try to straighten the car while in a truck (http://loki.zeitvarianz.de/albums/Cepsa2005/Spanien_017.sized.jpg) the effect is the opposite..

But don't take my word on this, most of this what I just wrote is based on on my logical thinking.

[tristancliffe]

Hmmm, yes the yaw of real cars (mainly Formula cars tbh) does affect the downforce of the cars and really encourages, if not forces a smooth driving style. If this was modelled in LFS (amongst many other things) it might change the quickest driving styles quite a lot (which tend to run a fair bit of neutral oversteer on corner exit).

[Bob Smith]

Link, not directly about the matter, but (http://users.pandora.be/elvo/)
Excellent read.

Regards what I said, I was more thinking about the road cars anyway. I think downforce loss with slip angles is something else that doesn't seem to be modelled in LFS (though I could be wrong there), so should make those cars much harder to correct once over the limit.